Ham Radio on a Cruise

[W7ZAA]

My YL and I are going on a cruise and are planning on bringing our HTs with us to use for communication with one another while on the boat. (simplex)

My issue is regarding international waters, and when the boat is in port. Obviously, when we are in Mexico, on Mexican soil, we will be subject to their laws. My questions are:

1. When we are traveling in International Waters down to Mexico from California are we able to use the radios without worry?
2. When the boat is in port and we are on the boat in port are we governed by Mexican law?

I don't want to return from the cruise in hot water from using the HT to communicate while on the boat. I emailed the FCC and got an email back with an attachment explaining what FRS and GMRS is, when I specifically stated that we both had our Ham Radio Licenses and even provided our callsigns for them. :o

Any information would be helpful. And yes, I checked Carnival's website as well as my traveling agreement and neither of them state anything about HAM/Amateur radio.

[W0IS]

1. When we are traveling in International Waters down to Mexico from California are we able to use the radios without worry?

If the ship is a U.S. registered vessel, then your license is valid there. If it flies the flag of some other country, then you need to comply with that country's rules. In either case, you need the permission of the ship's captain, which is routinely granted by some lines, and routinely denied by others.


2. When the boat is in port and we are on the boat in port are we governed by Mexican law?

Yes, you would need a Mexican license to operate in Mexican territorial waters. The license is fairly easy to obtain, but as far as I know, it requires either you or someone on your behalf to personally visit the government office to obtain your license. There is also a fee for doing this (I forget exactly, but it was something like $50). For your purposes, I'm guessing it's not worth the trouble.

In theory, you can get the license by mail, but when I got one, it was a lot easier to have someone go in person.

[N5KRC]

I don't want to return from the cruise in hot water from using the HT to communicate while on the boat.

Then you might want to contact the cruise line. You'll need the captain's consent to operate underway, regardless of who's laws you fall under at any given moment.

[W7ZAA]

Why do I need to check with the captain if their contract which I agreed to lists prohibited items and the word "radio" "HAM" "amateur" etc. are not even located under that list?

I'm bringing my cell phone and I'm not going to ask the captain for permission to use it if and when I need to. What am I missing?

[W7ZAA]

Here is the relevant portion of the contract:

4. BAGGAGE, PERSONAL PROPERTY, PROHIBITED ITEMS, LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
(a) Each fully paid adult Guest will be allowed a reasonable amount of luggage on board containing their personal belongings. Luggage means only trunks, valises, satchels, bags, hangers and bundles with their contents consisting of only such wearing apparel, toilet articles and similar personal effects as are necessary and appropriate for the purpose of the journey.
(b) No tools of trade, household goods, presents and/or property of others, jewelry, money, cameras, documents, valuables of any description including but not limited to such articles as are described in Title 46 of the United States Code section 30503 shall be carried except under and subject to the terms of a special written contract or Bill of Lading entered into with Carnival prior to embarkation upon application of the Guest. The Guest warrants that no such articles are contained in any receptacle or container presented by him as baggage hereunder, and if any such articles are shipped in the Guest’s baggage in breach of this warranty, no liability for negligence, gross or ordinary, shall attach to Carnival for any loss or damage thereto.
(c) Carnival shall not be liable for: (1) Guest’s failure to comply with the requirements set forth in Clauses 4(a) and 4(b); (2) any loss or damage before baggage comes into Carnival’s actual custody on board or after baggage leaves Carnival’s actual custody on board, including, but not limited to, loss or damage by airlines or other transportation services; (3) any loss or damage of baggage while not in the actual possession, custody and control of Carnival; (4) damage due to wear, tear or normal usage; (5) any loss or damage of perishable items, medicine, liquor, cash, securities or other financial instruments, or (6) any loss or damage while in the custody and control of stevedores.
(d) It is stipulated and agreed that the aggregate value of Guest’s property, does not exceed $50 per guest or bag with a maximum value of $100 per stateroom regardless of the number of occupants or bags and any liability of Carnival for any cause whatsoever with respect to said property shall not exceed such sum, unless the Guest shall in writing, delivered to Carnival, prior to embarkation, declare the true value thereof and pay to Carnival prior to embarkation a sum equal to 5% of the excess of such value. If Carnival shall be held liable for the loss of or damage to Guest’s baggage or property it is agreed that such liability shall not exceed the lesser of: (1) the actual cash value, or (2) value declared in the manner above provided (up to U.S. $100 if no such declaration has been made). Declared value amounts to be proportionately reduced in any case where less than all of Guest’s baggage or property is lost, delayed or rendered unusable due to damage. In no event shall Carnival be liable to pay any compensation if the nature or value of the property has been misrepresented.
(e) No Guest is permitted, to bring on board the vessel live animals (other than qualified service animals, with not less than 14 days advance notice given to Carnival). Guest will be solely responsible for any and all damage and/or loss caused by service animals.
(f) Weapons, firearms, contraband, ammunition, explosives, incendiary devices, or other dangerous items are strictly prohibited aboard the vessel. Carnival reserves the right to confiscate, destroy and/or turn over to authorities these or any other items it deems in its sole discretion to be detrimental to the safety or comfort of any person or which are otherwise improperly in the possession of any Guest. Each Guest warrants that no such articles are contained in any receptacle or container carried or presented as baggage. Alcoholic beverages are prohibited except as provided for in clause 8(f). All Guests agree Carnival has, at all times with or without notice, the right to search Guest’s baggage and/or personal effects for any of the prohibited items, at any location, to ensure compliance with these restrictions. Any Guest who refuses any such search or screening, or any Guest traveling with such items, may be denied boarding or disembarked and no refund of the cruise fare will be issued. The Guest will be solely responsible for any and all damage and/or loss caused by his violation of this policy.

[KF5CGM]

Why do I need to check with the captain if their contract which I agreed to lists prohibited items and the word "radio" "HAM" "amateur" etc. are not even located under that list?

I'm bringing my cell phone and I'm not going to ask the captain for permission to use it if and when I need to. What am I missing?

Typical American, because it doesn't say anything about a certain item, this doesn't mean that it is allowed.

If you go to a friends house and use your radio there, do you think you have to ask him for permission?

How about using it in a hospital? It say's cell phones are not allowed, do you think you can use your ham radio?

[W7ZAA]

I just found this on wikipedia:

Amateur radio operators in international waters or airspace are subject to the reciprocal licensing requirements pertaining to the country under which the vessel is flagged. Permission by the vessels Captain, for on-board use of amateur radio equipment, is often a legal requirement


I'm guessing you guys are getting the requirement for the captain's approval from this. I guess I'll try and contact them...

[W7ZAA]

Typical American, because it doesn't say anything about a certain item, this doesn't mean that it is allowed.

This is a contract. So this is absolutely what it means. If it isn't contractually prohibited, it is permissible.


If you go to a friends house and use your radio there, do you think you have to ask him for permission?

No, I don't. I also don't ask business owners for permission. If I'm in a loud and busy store, I'll use it without a care, no different than a cell phone, I just don't have the volume up loud enough to disturb others. If I'm in a quiet restaurant, obviously out of respect for others I won't disturb them. Other people's houses, vehicles, etc. is fair game.


How about using it in a hospital? It say's cell phones are not allowed, do you think you can use your ham radio?

Hospitals say that cell phones and other transmitters are not allowed. Since a radio is a transmitter, then I would not use it inside. I still fail to see how this applies, since the cruise says nothing about cell phones, transmitters, radios, or anything of the sort, and FRS radios are more than frequently used by passengers. I just don't want to have to fight over freqs with motorola talkabout radios.

[WB2WIK]

Why do I need to check with the captain if their contract which I agreed to lists prohibited items and the word "radio" "HAM" "amateur" etc. are not even located under that list?

I'm bringing my cell phone and I'm not going to ask the captain for permission to use it if and when I need to. What am I missing?

This has been pretty thoroughly researched by the ARRL legal staff and of course requires constantly renewed research, as regulations can change.

However as of "today," as per this:

http://www.arrl.org/maritime-mobile-operation-in-international-waters

...we get this:

"Several things will come into play here.

First, in many cases, you will first need the permission of the cruise ship company itself to even have an Amateur Radio transmitter in your possession while on board (whether in use or not). So your first step is to make sure you have written authorization to have your radio with you.

Next, besides the company itself you will need to have permission of the ship's captain in order to use the radio. Do not assume you can simply throw up a vertical outside of your stateroom and operate!

Once you have authorization top operate ship board, you still have to worry about reciprocal operating privileges with the country where your ship is, including territorial waters.

When an FCC licensed amateur is operating an amateur rig aboard a US-registered vessel in international waters, he or she must follow Part 97 of the FCC rules, particularly Section 97.11. US and Canadian licensees need no special permit or authorization other than their own FCC or DOC license as long as Section 97.11 is followed and they stay within the US and International waters.

If the ship is of foreign registry, you must obtain a reciprocal operating authorization from the country of registry in addition to being in compliance with Section 97.11. When amateurs enter the territorial waters of a country, they fall under their communications jurisdiction. This means that they must obtain the required reciprocal operating authorization. There are three such authorizations: CEPT which applies to most European countries and certain overseas territories; IARP which applies to certain countries in the America's; Reciprocal Permit which is available from most countries, but application must be made to the country and a fee paid."

[W7ZAA]

Oh, and thanks for the compliment. I'm proud to be an American, even though you insinuate that being so is a negative character feature. :rolleyes:

[W7ZAA]

This has been pretty thoroughly researched by the ARRL legal staff and of course requires constantly renewed research, as regulations can change.

However as of "today," as per this:

http://www.arrl.org/maritime-mobile-operation-in-international-waters

...we get this:

"Several things will come into play here.

First, in many cases, you will first need the permission of the cruise ship company itself to even have an Amateur Radio transmitter in your possession while on board (whether in use or not). So your first step is to make sure you have written authorization to have your radio with you.

Next, besides the company itself you will need to have permission of the ship's captain in order to use the radio. Do not assume you can simply throw up a vertical outside of your stateroom and operate!

Once you have authorization top operate ship board, you still have to worry about reciprocal operating privileges with the country where your ship is, including territorial waters.

When an FCC licensed amateur is operating an amateur rig aboard a US-registered vessel in international waters, he or she must follow Part 97 of the FCC rules, particularly Section 97.11. US and Canadian licensees need no special permit or authorization other than their own FCC or DOC license as long as Section 97.11 is followed and they stay within the US and International waters.

If the ship is of foreign registry, you must obtain a reciprocal operating authorization from the country of registry in addition to being in compliance with Section 97.11. When amateurs enter the territorial waters of a country, they fall under their communications jurisdiction. This means that they must obtain the required reciprocal operating authorization. There are three such authorizations: CEPT which applies to most European countries and certain overseas territories; IARP which applies to certain countries in the America's; Reciprocal Permit which is available from most countries, but application must be made to the country and a fee paid."

Great find! This is exactly what I was looking for, an official ruling on what the requirements are (hence my prior email to the FCC).

I'll get to contacting the cruise line. I do feel that that is more written to mobile/base radios (especially with the reference of adding an antenna).

I'll let you know what I hear.

[WB2WIK]

Great find! This is exactly what I was looking for, an official ruling on what the requirements are (hence my prior email to the FCC).

I'll get to contacting the cruise line. I do feel that that is more written to mobile/base radios (especially with the reference of adding an antenna).

I'll let you know what I hear.

BTW, I'm neither an expert nor a lawyer, but I've brought ham gear (and used it) on every cruise I've ever taken.:)

Carnival did not specifically grant permission, but we took the Elation from San Pedro down the Mexican coast (8 days/7 nights -- they still run this deal) and I brought a 2m hand held as well as a small HF rig with a gel-cell battery to run it, and a clamp-on multi-band HF portable antenna (and even a keyer and paddles, headphones, etc).

I did apply for a Mexican permit, via mail months in advance, and did receive it so I could operate while in ports there. It cost the equivalent of $90 USD and is valid for one year.

I "found" the ship's captain after several hours (these guys can hide well) and started to ask him about approval to operate on board. He spotted my 2m hand held and introduced himself with his Italian ham call (an I3 or I4, I forgot -- it's been about five years). He knew all about ham radio and said he's active about 6-8 weeks a year when he's home -- about 40 weeks a year he's at sea, and then they vacation in Switzerland during the winters. He readily granted me permission, warning me only to stay out of everybody's way and not let wires be on the floor where someone could trip over them.

Having the 2m hand held on every cruise as I have, I've met other hams a couple of times this way (who were on the same cruise and also had an HT).

If you have a Mexican permit, you can use XE repeaters while you're down there. Otherwise you can only use them in international waters or once you cross into U.S. territory off the coast of San Diego.

There's a lot more to this issue including the requirement to have a license or permit from the country of the ship's registry (since very few are actually American registry): Many are Panamanian, Bahamian or Liberian. Some are British or Norwegian. They can be anything, but it's easy to find out.

Good luck!

[KF5CGM]

They can be anything, but it's easy to find out.


Yeah the flag at the end of the ship will tell you.

[W7ZAA]

BTW, I'm neither an expert nor a lawyer, but I've brought ham gear (and used it) on every cruise I've ever taken.:)

Carnival did not specifically grant permission, but we took the Elation from San Pedro down the Mexican coast (8 days/7 nights -- they still run this deal) and I brought a 2m hand held as well as a small HF rig with a gel-cell battery to run it, and a clamp-on multi-band HF portable antenna (and even a keyer and paddles, headphones, etc).

I did apply for a Mexican permit, via mail months in advance, and did receive it so I could operate while in ports there. It cost the equivalent of $90 USD and is valid for one year.

I "found" the ship's captain after several hours (these guys can hide well) and started to ask him about approval to operate on board. He spotted my 2m hand held and introduced himself with his Italian ham call (an I3 or I4, I forgot -- it's been about five years). He knew all about ham radio and said he's active about 6-8 weeks a year when he's home -- about 40 weeks a year he's at sea, and then they vacation in Switzerland during the winters. He readily granted me permission, warning me only to stay out of everybody's way and not let wires be on the floor where someone could trip over them.

Having the 2m hand held on every cruise as I have, I've met other hams a couple of times this way (who were on the same cruise and also had an HT).

If you have a Mexican permit, you can use XE repeaters while you're down there. Otherwise you can only use them in international waters or once you cross into U.S. territory off the coast of San Diego.

There's a lot more to this issue including the requirement to have a license or permit from the country of the ship's registry (since very few are actually American registry): Many are Panamanian, Bahamian or Liberian. Some are British or Norwegian. They can be anything, but it's easy to find out.

Good luck!

I appreciate the answer, information, and personal experience.

Since we are only in Mexico for a day, I'm not going to go through the trouble of getting a ham radio license in Mexico.

Maybe its time to go out and buy some FRS radios...on second thought...maybe not! :o

[W7ZAA]

Yeah the flag at the end of the ship will tell you.

Apparently it flies the Panama flag. Yet another wrench thrown into this machine! lol

[W7ZAA]

I received a response back from Carnival. This is clearly something that they deal with a lot.

The email states:

"Ham radios like the picture below are not allowed. Handheld Motorola like radio's are allowed. Once you get on board the ship, you just need to check with guest services to see which frequency to use while you're on board."

The picture they have attached below is a screenshot of hamradio.com :D with a Kenwood TS-590 (base station) radio.

So, I guess I'm good bringing my FT-60s (as I thought I'd be). I'm interested to hear what guest services says about the frequencies I can use. :D

[WB2WIK]

I received a response back from Carnival. This is clearly something that they deal with a lot.

The email states:

"Ham radios like the picture below are not allowed. Handheld Motorola like radio's are allowed. Once you get on board the ship, you just need to check with guest services to see which frequency to use while you're on board."

The picture they have attached below is a screenshot of hamradio.com :D with a Kenwood TS-590 (base station) radio.

So, I guess I'm good bringing my FT-60s (as I thought I'd be). I'm interested to hear what guest services says about the frequencies I can use. :D

They might actually have a list. If you stick with a simplex frequency they recommend, you might find other hams aboard using the same frequency. If so, meet them for dinner and have a mini-hamfest.

[W7ZAA]

They might actually have a list. If you stick with a simplex frequency they recommend, you might find other hams aboard using the same frequency. If so, meet them for dinner and have a mini-hamfest.

That would be awesome! I'd be encouraged to hold nets as well. LOL :D

[WB2WIK]

That would be awesome! I'd be encouraged to hold nets as well. LOL :D

Net control gets to use the upper deck, to have full ship coverage.

Except those upper decks usually have a track and a volleyball court, so you have to be prepared to duck.

[WD9GYF]

Seems to me, that you are going to need 3 licenses, if I read this correctly.

If the ship is of Liberiean Registry, then you need a Liberian license, plus the Mexican one and your U.S. one.


Seems like a big hassle , just to use it for a week.


Just my opinion though.

73,
Enjoy the cruise
Jim WD9GYF/5

[N5POP]

May be of interest.

I attended a Hamfest in Belton,Tx last Saturday and there was a table set up with information for a Ham Radio Cruise 2011. From the bochure :

The cruise is on the Carnival Conquest Oct.30, 2011 for 7 days from Galveston, Texas to Jamaica, Grand Cayman and Cozumel.
2 installed ship HF stations are provided,HTs are welcome.

Required : IARP operating permit, 90 days to acquire.
copy of valid U.S.Amateur license and copy of passport in addition of required passport.

The lady handing out information was Debbie Rumfield N5DSR, her email address is mypinmoneytravel@yahoo.com

No interest in this travel agent, just passing along some information.

[W0IS]

This is a contract. So this is absolutely what it means. If it isn't contractually prohibited, it is permissible.

The contract doesn't say anything about bringing heroine along with you, so it must be OK.

However, in the case of amateur radio, there happens to be a law that is relevant, independent of what the contract says:


§97.11 Stations aboard ships or aircraft.-


(a) The installation and operation of an amateur station on a ship or aircraft must be approved by the master of the ship or pilot in command of the aircraft.

[W5UQ]

Hi guys... the cruise was presented at TDXS last night and some of us are interested. My wife and I are in the process of booking it now.

Anyone going that would like to contact me would be great. We can coordinate some travel things together.

Also, we live an hour and 1/2 from Galveston.

Bob Hardie
W5UQ, A25UQ, V31UQ, VP2EEU
281-259-7877

[WB8MKV]

..If I were going on a cruise with a YL, I certainly would be more interested in her than radio...but then again I have over 60,000 CW contacts.....

[WA9SVD]

Yeah the flag at the end of the ship will tell you.

Well, that doesn't tell a lot until you get aboard the ship! Better to research things in advance!

[W0JBC]

Make sure you ware your ball-cap with your Amateur Call everywhere
you go . Make sure you have at least two handies on your belt .

This issue has been addressed MANY , MANY times on QRZ ! :cool:


Go for it. I have been on a few cruises , ( not as many as WIK ),
yet I find many more things to do than be cool making contacts
from a cruise-liner .

Don't be GEEKY . Enjoy the cruise ! :)

Amateur radio will not miss you during the ' whole week ' .

Play the game . A few months ( down the road ) you might
find the local Sheriff delivering a note to you from the court .

Do not be stupid .


JB


NNNN

[W0JBC]

AZZ:

Some lines ( port of call ) will not recognise the General License as
valid .

There is more to it than that . The FCC relaxed the testing for General .

It does not meet the requirements for their HF stations .

Relax and cruise ! :)


JB

[AD6KA]

...............................

[W6OGC]

When we cruised on Carnival Ecstasy Galveston to Cozumel a year ago, ham or other 2 way radio was forbidden to even bring aboard in luggage, let alone use.

[N8CPA]

Hi guys... the cruise was presented at TDXS last night and some of us are interested. My wife and I are in the process of booking it now.

Anyone going that would like to contact me would be great. We can coordinate some travel things together.

Also, we live an hour and 1/2 from Galveston.

Bob Hardie
W5UQ, A25UQ, V31UQ, VP2EEU
281-259-7877

I'll pass on that one. I'd completely miss CW-SS. And that is one of the few things I like more than cruising.