View Full Version : A Letter from Nate Newbie
From The Mailbag:
Breaker breaker, is the channel clear? I'm Nate Newbie, KX4XYZ. I just got my HAM three weeks ago, so now I guess I'm ready to express my opinion about all the things that are wrong with HAM.
I like a lot of variety in my HAM activity, so I operate on three different 2 meter repeaters. HAMS who use only one repeater are really limiting their HAM experience. My rig is an ICOM XP-1600. It's an HT that weighs 2 ounces and fits in my shirt pocket.
I think HAM is dying out. Sometimes all three of the repeaters I use are very quiet at night! That's probably because everyone is on the Internet. The Internet will probably replace HAM soon anyway.
What's with Extra class HAMS? They are all such snobs, and very rude to new HAMS. All of them!
Morse code is SO stupid! Why would anyone want to learn it? Also, I heard since they did away with multiple choice Morse code test, the test is now impossible. Besides, I don't think I want to get on HF anyway. I heard everyone is rude there, there is a lot of noise and static, and it's hard to get a break on the channel if you are a new HAM. And why would I want to talk to foreigh HAMS who don't even speak English? Duh...
What's the big deal if I use 10-codes on the repeater? I thought all that matters on HAM is that you are understood. If you understand that "10-4" means "QSL" and that "10-20" means location, then don't they serve a purpose? Snobby Extra Class HAMS use dumb "Q" codes. I thought you are only supposed to use them on Morse code anyway.
Why are most HAMS a bunch of dumb, senile, OLD guys? Maybe if old HAMS weren't so rude, there would be more young HAMS like me.
I have to go 10-7 now. That's right. That was a 10-code that you snobby Extra class HAMS hate so much.
Best 73's,
Nate
KD7UKT
06-17-2003, 05:13 PM
W3SY,
That is precisely the attitude that almost made me skip my license test. If you will read my other thread, you will see that it was only through the concerted efforts of 3 hams, two of them no-code techs, that I eventually sat for my test... and that was over a year later!
Imagine if you are a prospective ham and saw that post... would you want to join this hobby?
WB2GOF
06-17-2003, 05:13 PM
I fail to see your point. I do not believe this "letter" is truly representative of new amateurs today.
Steve,
You forgot to mention that Nate is in his 20's (no kid could have learned to be that obnoxious), and he was pestered, pushed and hounded to become a ham by 3 hams just like him...and then it took a year for him to finally take the test. Nate now does this to other unsuspecting people feeling that this hobby is somehow about the total warm body count.
It has never occured to Nate and his like minded friends that if it took 3 people and a years effort perhaps they would be happier in a less intellectually challenging hobby.....something like .......staring off into space, perhaps.
Better 73's
Marty WB2RJR
KB1GYQ
06-17-2003, 06:28 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2RJR @ June 17 2003,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">intellectually challenging hobby[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Surely you jest! When an extra has to ask what length to make a dipole?! There is no intellegence left, and the old timers take umbrage against any newcomer with an IQ over 50.
W1IRS
06-17-2003, 06:30 PM
There really are some very special Extra class Fools here.
n5zvp
06-17-2003, 06:43 PM
Is this the "Dead Horse Beating Society"?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Chris
WA5TT
Is this the "Dead Horse Beating Society"?
No, Nate is a member of PETA, and believes all horses, dead or alive, and of whatever class, deserve respect.
Good 73's
Marty WB2RJR
KB1GYQ
06-17-2003, 07:24 PM
If ya'll really want to scrape the bottom of the barrel surf over to http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?act....&type=r (http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=topics&board=17748571&sid=17748571&type=r) and see what is on the public message boards about amateur radio - it makes the trolls here look perspicacious.
n5zvp
06-17-2003, 08:04 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, Nate is a member of PETA, and believes all horses, dead or alive, and of whatever class, deserve respect.
Good 73's
Marty WB2RJR [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There's a dead squirrel in the parking lot here if you and w3sy want to come over and kick it. It may even be a no-code squirrel that hates HF...
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Chris
WA5TT
Suuu-rrrre, this description of "Nate Newbie" describes me to a "T". Last time I got tested, my IQ was way beyond 50. And I can even spell without the help of a spell checker and know how to cut my own dipoles.
These forums... all of 'em... are all becoming just alike, nothing but Expired Equine Flagellation Societies... it's much more fun to get into a DX pileup than it is to read posts that are constantly denigrating certain operators, or one aspect of ham radio or another.
Think it is time for a break. Ya'll have fun picking on each other nah. I 'spect there is a DX out there for me to pounce on. I just need one more country for my DXCC. People on HF are certainly less judgmental too.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If ya'll really want to scrape the bottom of the barrel surf over to
KB1GYQ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh Heck, that is just an example of what happens when you have an un-moderated board ! #( now aren't you glad for people like Glen, who give their time and energy to the cause ? #) #
The sort of vermin that infect that board would sound off, no matter what the subject. #Just let them find something that two or more people disagree on, and you get #" @#$%^&*&^%$#@ #" #from them ! #It takes no intelligence whatsoever to write the equivilent of " So's yur old man !!! " or even worse ( YouknowhatImean Vern! )
It's no wonder that wars have been going on for thousands of years. #It's so easy to disagree with someone, and that's a problem that is common to mankind!
Now just watch, someone will probably disagree with me !
73 anyway #from Jim AG3Y
kg4ukf
06-17-2003, 08:44 PM
like a great wrestling legend once said in one of his promos "why can't we all just get along"
just be glad we have new hams. ham is somewhat like the circus. if you dont like the tigers, go to the flying trapeze performers. if you dont like that you may like the clowns or the man that gets shot out the cannon. we are the same way. some like code. some dont. some like all 2 meters. some like hf work only. theres more to being a ham than just talking on radio. its a public service also. and broading ones mind with knowledge if they choose to do so.
just my 2 cents from -.- --. ....- ..- -.- ..-.
.-.-.
Rubbing hands with glee! Nothing like a little satire to stir the hornet's nest.
"Y'honor... May it please the court... gentlemen of the jury... Let the record show that the defendant, Mister Steve W3SY, has a 33 year history of helping new hams, both in his community and over the Internet.... We plead not guilty, and throw ourselves on the kind mercy of the court..."
No, there's no Newbie Bashing going on here, ladies. Perhaps there's some bemusement, mixed with a dash of frustration, with some of what I keep hearing from our newer brethren on QRZ.COM.
Take the letter from Nate for what it's worth. What, you think I'm making this whole thing up?
I doan theenk so, Queekstraw!
Haw...
Out.
Steve,
Chris WA5TT says there's a dead no-code squirrel that hates HF in his parking lot.
Are you available tomorrow?
Pretty good 73's
Marty WB2RJR
Marty, I'll BE there! Let's kick it REEEEEEAL GOOOOOD... That will tenderize it so when I cook it up for Field Day, it will have JUST the right texture.
Field Day, by the way..... Don't forget. Newbie Bro's, get on out there with the local club. Great learning experience. Even Nate will be out there getting in some HF operating, I suspect!
Out.
n5zvp
06-18-2003, 12:20 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Marty, I'll BE there! Let's kick it REEEEEEAL GOOOOOD... That will tenderize it so when I cook it up for Field Day, it will have JUST the right texture.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry OM, some overweight 1x2 driving a SUV encrusted with vertical aluminum picked it up and attached it to the top of his portside screwdriver antenna.
He then glared at me and said with a snarl, "What's a matter, punk? Never seen a capacitance hat?"
I asked if a raccoon would do a better job. But he was already gone in a cloud of dust and CW.
Chris
WA5TT
"I asked if a raccoon would do a better job. But he was already gone in a cloud of dust and CW."
You're right Chris those 1x2's just won't answer a newbie's reasonable questions. How do they expect new people to learn anything?
I'll check it out for you on EZNEC-3, but would expect it to provide considerably more top loading.
Best of Better 73's
Marty WB2RJR
KB1GYQ
06-18-2003, 01:26 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 17 2003,17:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rubbing hands with glee! Nothing like a little satire to stir the hornet's nest.
"Y'honor... May it please the court... gentlemen of the jury... Let the record show that the defendant, Mister Steve W3SY, has a 33 year history of helping new hams, both in his community and over the Internet.... We plead not guilty, and throw ourselves on the kind mercy of the court..."
No, there's no Newbie Bashing going on here, ladies. Perhaps there's some bemusement, mixed with a dash of frustration, with some of what I keep hearing from our newer brethren on QRZ.COM.
Take the letter from Nate for what it's worth. What, you think I'm making this whole thing up?
I doan theenk so, Queekstraw!
Haw...
Out.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You should know by now, this court has no mercy.
Break out the Wouff Hong, unsheath the Rettysnitch, and have at thee.
n6hle
06-18-2003, 01:29 AM
First Cent:
As a new ham I am getting tired of hearnig other newbies complaining about how Extras and 1X2s and OMs and everybody else show them a bad attitude. #GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER HAM THAT WILL HELP!!! #It just gives the rest of us newbies that are here to enjoy ham radio a bad name. This isn't just ham radio, this is in life. #If you ask somebody in a parking lot to help you jump start your vehicle and get bad attitude, you don't give up and bitch about EVERYBODY, you find somebody else to help you. #Your bitching just makes other prospective hams run in the opposite direction, and does you NO GOOD in the process. #You don't need that, and WE certainly don't want it.
Second Cent:
It saddens me that there are actually newbies out there with attitudes like "Nate". #I see people like that at work all the time; it's their first radio gig but they've gone to college to learn how to be better than YOU and seem to know everything that it took you years of experience to learn. #However, people like that have a way of self-destructing in just about every endeavor they undertake. #I've seen just about as many of them go in my commercial radio career as I've seen come.
Extra penny for your thoughts:
Just let them be, don't give them the attention they don't deserve. #When these people start behaving in a manner that's becoming of a rational human being then give them the time of day. #And if they don't start acting rationally, then they can, in the immortal words of Ted Nugent, "Kiss my a$$."
73,
Harry - KG6PTD
n5zvp
06-18-2003, 02:16 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You're right Chris those 1x2's just won't answer a newbie's reasonable questions. How do they expect new people to learn anything?
I'll check it out for you on EZNEC-3, but would expect it to provide considerably more top loading.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think it's the unbalanced call sign that causes the problem. With a 1x2 you have to use a balun to get a good match. That's why I got a 2x2 when I upgraded...
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I don't know why someone would top load with a squirrel, when cats work better. Don't even have to mount them, they just impale themselves out of curiosity...
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Notice: this thread not for the humor impaired. No mammals were hurt in the antenna testing process, the local tree rats were too busy playing in the streets and the household feline was playing with the dirty socks and couldn't be bothered.
Chris
WA5TT
K3DAV
06-18-2003, 02:38 AM
You guys are killing me. #I haven't laughed like this in a while.
The sad part is, Nate Newbie does exist. #And he has many, many faces. #I've run into way too many Nate Newbie's.
I'm a 48 year old newbie (Licensed 4 weeks), but my name is certainly not Nate. #Guys like Nate, don't stick around too long for lack of interest, or intelligence, or both. #
As for me!! #I'm having too much fun with ham radio, to stop. #I'm actually surprised it's legal. #6 and 2 meter SSB is a blast. #
Hang in there Nate. #You and your buddies can always get a pair of space patrol walkie-talkies, and have your own private club with rules and meetings and soda and chips and everything. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
W3SY. I bow to you for this wonderful thread.
Dave.
N0KLT
06-18-2003, 03:53 AM
SY
You, sir, are a sick young man. I like that in a man esp a ham. This piece was one of your better efforts. And for what it's worth, as far as I am concerned the Nates of the the world are not as bad as the "I have had a ticket for months now and already know more then anyone else I have ever talked to' types who for the most part haven't passed thru puberty far enuf for anyone else to becertain if the voice is a male or female.
And for topping an antenna, neither tree rats or cats do as good a job as some of these 2 lb ankle bitting excuses for canines.
73
Gary NØKLT
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0KLT @ June 17 2003,21:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I have had a ticket for months now and already know more then anyone else I have ever talked to"[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There are a couple things that Nate and other newbies will learn with time...
I don't suppose my saying it will help, but I'll try...
"The more I learn about Ham Radio and Electronics, the more I know I don't know what I need to know."
It is true of most newbies in most situations... a tiny amount of knowledge is a dangerous thing...
"The more I learn, the more I know I better keep my flap shut unless I've done my homework and double checked it."
AND...
"The more I learn, the more I know that those who have been in ANY hobby or avocation longer than I know more about it than I do."
AND...
"The more I learn, the more I know I can learn from others."
Ya know, I learned something real fast in the Navy... when assigned to a new ship, you go aboard and keep your mouth shut, and get a feel for what the trends are in that particular division... Those who came on board boasting about how good they were usually knew the least, and those who came aboard and kept their flaps shut usually were experienced techs who could be depended on... they didn't have to spout off... their accomplishments would eventually speak for them...
The other thing you didn't do was come into a division and start trying to change things... didn't matter if you were the DivO or the newest seaman... ya went with the tide and then tried to change things a little at a time... quietly and for good solid reasons AFTER you discovered WHY things were the way they were in the first place...
Same thing goes in 'real life'... Those who know things usually don't flap their jaws unless they are adding something positive to the conversation... And newbies who try to change things without knowing the why will hit a brick wall... ever has been ever will be...
n5zvp
06-18-2003, 06:51 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The other thing you didn't do was come into a division and start trying to change things... didn't matter if you were the DivO or the newest seaman... ya went with the tide and then tried to change things a little at a time... quietly and for good solid reasons AFTER you discovered WHY things were the way they were in the first place... [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
They actually let new folks on board without tossing them off the side first to see if they could swim?
Of course you might lose a few folks while sitting in dry dock, but hey, traditions are traditions.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Chris (I know nothing...)
WA5TT
"We have met the enemy, and he is us ! " - Pogo
Wear the shoe if it fits !
Oh, BTW, here is the web page I found to verify that the quote was correct! #Pretty interesting information!
http://www.igopogo.com/we_have_met.htm
73 from Jim AG3Y
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AG3Y @ June 18 2003,08:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"We have met the enemy, and he is us ! " - Pogo[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I understand what you're trying to say... and I like Pogo too... but isn't it kinda sad that the greatest philosopher of our time is a friggin' cartoon 'possom...
No wonder we have extra class Hams who can't build a dipole... not to mention define what the j reading is all about on an MFJ-259...
N0FFA
06-18-2003, 04:20 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0ODY @ June 17 2003,13:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">These forums... all of 'em... are all becoming just alike, nothing but Expired Equine Flagellation Societies... it's much more fun to get into a DX pileup than it is to read posts that are constantly denigrating certain operators, or one aspect of ham radio or another.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You think this is bad, you need to go to a stock show!
Gayly clad with your 1970's Richard Petty feather hatband, silver toed boots and name tooled into the back of yer belt, you show up with that heifer everyone in the barn smoked last summer and knows you paid 4 times too much for at a production sale. You gawk disgustedly at that western Kansas hick taking a dip of Copenhagen with the same hand he just used to wipe manure of the tail of his bull as you come to the realization you should never stand less than one full leg extension behind a strange animal as you fly through the air landing against your neighbors show box spilling his feed and knocking his brand new clippers to the floor breaking the blades and spilling fly spray on yer brand new 20X cowperson hat. You ain't Ned Newbie, you're Freddy Four-H and welcome to the barn.
Eventually, if you have the right attitude and want to learn, folks will start stopping by and introducing themselves. They'll loan you some stuff you need, help ya when you need it (even if you don't realize you need help), be there to avert disaster when you do something stoopid. Sooner or later one will take an interest in ya an be there to shine on ya when ya done good or slap ya up side the head when you need it.
If all you pay attention to is walking around the cow piles to keep your shiny new boots from getting dirty instead of focusing on your animals and promoting the breed positively, your neighbors will never come by to say, "Good morning, my name's Dave, I haven't met you yet." They'll just call you Freddy.
Point is, there are certain universal truths. It's hard to make an original mistake, doen't matter if it's ham radio, livestock exhibiting or whatever. And..... some dead horses just NEED to be beat!
KC0OXQ,
Proud to be a newbie and learnin' every time I get kicked!
<span style='color:blue'>Where is he now?</span>
Where is Nate now? Nate got together with a helpful veteran amateur (named Elmer) from the local club. Elmer helped Nate learn the code. Elmer even gave Nate is old straight key and code oscillator. They practiced by sending to each other. Nate found that as he practiced sending, his copy speed increased as well --- interesting!
When Nate took his code test at the VE session, he copied the entire text solid -- 100%. The fill-in-the-blank test was just a formality. Oh, he also passed his General theory and is hitting the books for the Extra now.
With guidance from a couple other club members, Nate picked out a good deal on a second-hand Kenwood TS-850, complete with CW filters. For the cost of some wire, coax, and a couple pizzas, Nate and his pals got some dipoles up in the trees. Might add a beam later this Summer.
Now the locals have a little more competition for the DX! Nate is also playing around with some PSK-31.
He's long since lost his "Novice Accent," as we used to call it, and the CB lingo and 10 codes he clung to are now a distant memory.
Nate likes the Internet forums too. He found them to be a good place to exchange information, vent frustrations, and sometimes just cut up. He saw a new ham complaining about older "HAMS," Extras, and HF.... He clicked on the reply button....
n6hle
06-18-2003, 04:43 PM
SY,
I only know about you what I've learned on this board. Very funny and interesting cat. Hope to work you on HF someday when I get my general. That all being said, I am starting to think, is this thread starting to take on a little more of an autobiographical form???
73,
Harry, KG6PTD
K5USS
06-18-2003, 06:23 PM
SY can be a real pain in the rear, as can a lot of the others that posted on this thread. But, out of all the people on this board that I have e-mailed to ask a question, Steve is one of the few that was open to my question, took the time to reply and helped me. Why did I e-mail you may ask, because I had not yet obtained my call sign and wanted to ask a question that I thought would be looked at as stupid. I now know that the only stupid questions are the ones you do not ask.
Many of the OMs in this hobby do seem to come across as cranky, or unsupportive of new people. That is not always the case, as one OM on this board has pointed out so many times, self inflicted stupidity is generally what makes people upset. There will always be people that would rather ask than take the time to look it up, then there are those that are not confident in what they have done and will ask the question just as a sanity check.
I am not an oldtimer in this hobby and I still look at some of the questions on this board and it is all I can do not to hit the keys and get really angry with them myself. I can see why some people are upset.
This is a message board, a place for people to get answers, post opinions, and to vent when required. If you take these opinions personally you may need more help than can be obtained here.
Steve, and others, continue to keep us in line, provide us with some needed comic relief, and help us along as required.
A former Semi-Nate myself but I think I am getting better,
K5USS
WB2GOF
06-18-2003, 07:26 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 18 2003,12:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:blue'>Where is he now?</span>
Where is Nate now? Nate got together with a helpful veteran amateur (named Elmer) from the local club. Elmer helped Nate learn the code. Elmer even gave Nate is old straight key and code oscillator. They practiced by sending to each other. Nate found that as he practiced sending, his copy speed increased as well --- interesting!
When Nate took his code test at the VE session, he copied the entire text solid -- 100%. The fill-in-the-blank test was just a formality. Oh, he also passed his General theory and is hitting the books for the Extra now.
With guidance from a couple other club members, Nate picked out a good deal on a second-hand Kenwood TS-850, complete with CW filters. For the cost of some wire, coax, and a couple pizzas, Nate and his pals got some dipoles up in the trees. Might add a beam later this Summer.
Now the locals have a little more competition for the DX! Nate is also playing around with some PSK-31.
He's long since lost his "Novice Accent," as we used to call it, and the CB lingo and 10 codes he clung to are now a distant memory.
Nate likes the Internet forums too. He found them to be a good place to exchange information, vent frustrations, and sometimes just cut up. He saw a new ham complaining about older "HAMS," Extras, and HF.... He clicked on the reply button....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's a shame. I liked Nate better the old way...
HAW!!! Well done, Mike WB2GOF.... Good punchline. Sure, I COULD have ended with Nate becoming embittered by "snooty college puke Extree Class city boys." Nate COULD have sold his two meter HT to an unlicensed trucker over the Internet, and he COULD have become a trailer park dwelling Freebander running 2KW of SSB on 28.030.
But that's not what usually happens.
Point is that few people join any hobby (hamming included) with full appreciation for its history, traditions, lingo, superstitions, quirks, pet peeves, joys, accomplishments, or "rules" - written or unwritten. (I suspect stamp collecting has all of the above in some form, but I have no idea what they might be.) That comes with time. It also helps if "veterans" seek out those just getting started, and give them a hand. If a newbie is struggling, or frustrated, or is a "bad" operator, or feels like he's on the outside looking in, SOMEBODY didn't step up and help when he could have. SOMEBODY didn't set a good example when it needed to be set. If you are an old timer, and all you hear on the air is LIDS, well, it's on us. Our bad.
If you are a new operator, and someone sincerely tries to help, it's not a slap. They probably are not trying to pick on you. So it's a two way street, huh? Keep an open mind.
If you have a nice HF station, have some new Techs over for an evening of HF'ing. Show them that the General or Extra ticket is worth shooting for, if that's where their interests lie.
Harry, KG6PTD - No, this isn't exactly autobiographical, but I once WAS a know-it-all kid with an Advanced ticket who thought I was a lot smarter than the old timers. BUT, I did try to be more like the "good" operators I heard and less like the LIDS I heard. I had a number of good mentors, and was inspired by some of the amazing ham shacks I visited as a Novice.
This thread was inspired by some of the "HF sucks, old timers suck, Extras suck, upgrading sucks" messages I've seen. I think newer hams do have to keep an open mind, and the OF's among us need to be there to answer questions and to help. Sorry I had to resort to broad satire, but I was getting frustrated with some of you doods.
HAW!!!
Out.
ae4fa
06-19-2003, 02:05 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This thread was inspired by some of the "HF sucks, old timers suck, Extras suck, upgrading sucks" messages I've seen. I think newer hams do have to keep an open mind, and the OF's among us need to be there to answer questions and to help. Sorry I had to resort to broad satire, but I was getting frustrated with some of you doods.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And, I'm guessing, more than a little bit of alcohol!
Good job, Steve! That took guts!
Phineas
06-20-2003, 12:27 AM
I dont know how many of you checked out some of the messages on that Yahoo link, but just some of the titles of the groups had me rollin!!!! What is even funnier is there is a group called "Ham radios are for Fat Slobs" that is the most active...lol
Nice twisted thread you started Steve, and thanks to Berny for the link. Been along time since I have laughed so hard on QRZ
--... ...--
Phineas
-.- ----- -.- -- .-
kd5icr
06-20-2003, 01:13 AM
Well I just had to go and see some of the yahoo message boards and I cut loose on a few of them. I used my ultra evil screen name to let them have it. I would like to know were these people get the idea that we are fat slobs. Oh well as I saw after a few time of leadind a horse to water and they dont drink, then it's time for another horse.
I am glad they dont post here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Bill
I'm a no-code technical that has been trying to practice CW but every time I do people get upset. Here is what I'm doing and maybe you can tell me what is wrong. I tune up my radio 146.020 and send a single T and then wait for a reply. I hear someone come back about 600kHz above (they must have a old tube VFO or something to be that off) with a T. Then I do it again and they respond again. This has really helped me learn this letter. But then someone always starts to chew us out and call us "kechunkers" or something. What is going on here? Do all the OF's just want to keep this code to themselves?
KB1GYQ
06-20-2003, 09:57 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w7com @ June 20 2003,17:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... send a single T ... hear someone come back about 600kHz above[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ROTFL- somebody help, that one killed me http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
w5alt
06-21-2003, 03:18 AM
You must be a ham ......
If that's the funniest thing you've heard all week! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KD7WHQ
06-21-2003, 04:53 AM
Just a guess, but maybe they are getting upset because you are on the input of the 146.02/62 repeater in Bremerton?
But then I think something is getting yanked here, lol http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
And a good one that was http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
73
Well, since it's in the 2m band I do FM modulate with a 103.5Hz tone (I'm a bass myself) so people understand that this is code I'm sending. I've tried sending my call sign to this guy but he keeps sending back "T". And his signal kind of cherps a bit.. kind of a doo-deet thing. Well I can understand using what you've got to get on air. I just wish he would learn a few more letters. He does do his ID every so often.. it's something like WW7RA/R, whatever that /R is about I don't know. Maybe RESTRICTED in the letters that he can use. I have heard some people on the freq. One guy, George N7GME really gets upset with this guy trying to send code back to me. I keep hearing George send back code to him really fast (sounds like a modem) but all he gets back is a "T" too. Any clues people?
Joe W7COM
WWRA Ops
WW7RA, the only Mic-E Repeaters in Washington.
KD7WHQ
06-21-2003, 07:07 AM
WWRA = Western Washington Repeater Association.
PSRG = Puget Sound Repeater Group, of which I am a member.
Now why that one machine continually sends an E after the ID is beyond me... Wait a minute, the courtesy tone is the same freq as the ID!
And, that did have me going for a day or two, lol..
73 around http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
kc7jty
06-21-2003, 07:24 PM
Its very unfortunate that American amateur radio isn't able to attract a significant percentage of decent, intelligent non ding dong CB types.
Maybe this is due to the fact that "the word is out" that the oldbie hams have their heads firmly implanted rectally.
KC7JTY
Yoh!, Steve,
You were wrong! Nate didn't change.......except to change his call from KX4XYZ to KC7JTY.
73, Marty WB2RJR
Joe W7COM,
You can get additional practice on the letter "T" by tuning in to WWV on 5, 10, or 15 mHz.
Always glad to help out the new guys.
73, Marty WB2RJR
Joe,
Forgot, but to practice the letter "V' get a copy of Beethoven's 5th, and listen to the beginning a couple of hundred times.
Always glad to help out the new guys.
di-di-dit-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Marty WB2RJR
KB1GYQ
06-22-2003, 03:16 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2RJR @ June 21 2003,18:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Joe,
Forgot, but to practice the letter "V' get a copy of Beethoven's 5th, and listen to the beginning a couple of hundred times.
Always glad to help out the new guys.
di-di-dit-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Marty WB2RJR[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The Vogon guard did not find that very inspiring, Ford and Arthur still got thrown into space.
"Resistance is useless!"
KB1GYQ
06-22-2003, 03:19 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2RJR @ June 21 2003,17:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Joe W7COM,
You can get additional practice on the letter "T" by tuning in to WWV on 5, 10, or 15 mHz.
Always glad to help out the new guys.
73, Marty WB2RJR[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are you sure it's not a slow code 'E'?
"Are you sure it's not a slow code 'E'?"
GYQ,
You got me on this one. I feel like an idiot, forgot the new code requirement for general and extra was 5 words per month.
73, Marty WB2RJR
P.S. better up grade now, I heard the old farts are pushing for one minute solid copy of WWV for the new code requirements. They are going to make it impossible to get in any new blood.
OM KC7JTY --
Which is worse -- Hams assuming that all CB'ers are 2-digit IQ "good buddy" yahoos running "leenyers," operating as if radio laws were never written
-or-
CB'ers (and new hams) assuming that long time hams are uptight, snot nosed rectum heads?
If the CB guys you describe shy away from hamming because they are afraid they might need to LEARN something from somebody, so be it.
CB "jealousy" over what hams can do legally, as opposed to what they have to do illegally, goes waaaaaay back. Believe me, it's nothing new. The really smart CB'ers ignore the trash talk they hear from their Good Buddies and find out what hams and hamming is about for themselves.
I'm always a little amused when I hear that "the word is out" about something. The assumptions are usually false.
Out.
Steve Sy..
I heard from a buddy of yours that you had reverted to running 28610 kHz AM using an 'oldie but goodie' Lafayette Radio & Electronics HA-410 feeding a vertical mounted on the roof.
My only question.. will you answer landwires or talk to sydebaund ops?
73
Chuck K3FT
kc7jty
06-23-2003, 08:10 PM
W3SY:
I see you got the "Old Man" part right this time.....can it be you remember me?
I believe it was the March issue of QST mag of 2002 (maybe it was 2001) that said it best in the letters from readers section about the "Dumbing Down" of amateur radio. Its not just idiot CBers that are passing by amateur radio. It includes real, intellegent, kind of folks I like to contact, people that just can't be bothered with all the crap (morse code included) that goes with being a ham. Look up the QST piece I'm referring to.
KC7JTY
K6UEY
06-23-2003, 09:09 PM
KC7JTY;
That's the best news that I have heard about Ham Radio in several years.
I have been active in Ham Radio for almost 50 years so I have seen from the inside " The Dumbing Down" of Ham Radio and the Younger Generation in general, sorry I missed reading the QST article, but thanks for bringing it to our attention. If those that are not willing to put up with the rules and regulations and all that Ham Radio "crap " are going on to other interests I would say that is a plus for our side and possibly less frustration on their part. As you have amply demostrated in the past, not every one is cut out for Ham Radio, or for that matter qualified to be a Ham Radio Operator, unlike that of being a CB operator. Maybe when the Genius's of today can find a way to gain experience and knowledge with out the passing of time, then they can come back and give it another try, maybe by that time they will have gained a little maturity and Ham Radio will be restored to the Honorable Fraternity that is once was, before the "Dumbed Down Patricipants started invading .
Have a Good day!! If you can tell the difference, # # # # # # 73, # ORV
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
KB1GYQ
06-23-2003, 09:59 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ June 23 2003,16:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">W3SY:
I see you got the "Old Man" part right this time.....can it be you remember me?
I believe it was the March issue of QST mag of 2002 (maybe it was 2001) that said it best in the letters from readers section about the "Dumbing Down" of amateur radio. Its not just idiot CBers that are passing by amateur radio. It includes real, intellegent, kind of folks I like to contact, people that just can't be bothered with all the crap (morse code included) that goes with being a ham. Look up the QST piece I'm referring to.
KC7JTY[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It's interesting how your post about "cleaning our own house so that intellegent folk will be attracted to amateur radio" can get so badly misinterperted as to mean that people how cannot abide by polite rules are being chased away.
Is there a copy of that article online? I'd like to read it.
kc7jty
06-23-2003, 11:37 PM
W3SY:
Update, The piece was in the March, 2002 QST under Correspondance. The heading is: Furthering the radio art.
K6UEY:
The "Fraternity" is dying out. Not everyone wants to join a fraternity these days.
KB1GYQ:
I don't know. I photo copied my page from the magazine which I saw at the library back when. I would never subscribe to anything ARRL. Read the article if you can find it.
Who said anything about being polite. Is anyone with an opinion other than yours impolite?
KC7JTY
w5alt
06-24-2003, 12:31 AM
Interestingly, from public information, the author of the QST article was a Technician for at least 10 years and upgraded from Tech to Extra in one sitting in 2001. That means he never tested for Morse code at more than 5 WPM. Of course he is welcome to express an opinion, but I would not be inclined to classify him as an expert on the subject.
He says the CW bands are pretty dead, so it's apparent he doesn't listen very much. I would suggest he get a better antenna or receiver. In 2002, the year he wrote the letter, I made over 2000 CW QSO's and was without a rig for about 3 months. In March 2002, the month of his letter, I made 86 CW QSO's. None of those were contest QSO's - I keep those in a separate logbook. One doesn't do that on CW bands that are essentially dead all the time.
Now, whether I agree with doing away with CW testing or not, spreading false information on one hand and readily accepting it when it suits one's opinion does not convince me that there is a valid argument. I would think the no-coders could apply logic and technology a little better than that to further their cause.
73,
KB1GYQ
06-24-2003, 03:17 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ June 23 2003,19:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know. I photo copied my page from the magazine which I saw at the library back when. I would never subscribe to anything ARRL. Read the article if you can find it.
Who said anything about being polite. Is anyone with an opinion other than yours impolite?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'll see if someone local has a copy.
I understood your post to refer to intellegent people who are disinterested in amateur radio, and another poster interperted it to mean that rife-raf aren't interested. Which was your intent, it might be me who misunderstood.
I am opinionated, but I reserve the right to be wrong. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
kc7jty
06-24-2003, 07:22 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ June 23 2003,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[I understood your post to refer to intellegent people who are disinterested in amateur radio, and another poster interperted it to mean that rife-raf aren't interested. Which was your intent, it might be me who misunderstood.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm thinking there are a lot of good people (intelligent, well spoken, "polite", technically oriented, electronics hobbiests) who pass by ham radio for previously mentioned reasons. Its a loss to amateur radio in my opinion. I'm a NO CODER and intend to stay that way, so my opinion doesn't matter.
Due to a serious hearing problem I am and always will be interested in 2 way radio. I love to engage in live conversation. Conversing by radio I can crank up the audio untill I can hear even the sofest voice, something I cannot do even with both hearing aids in a person to person situation. A good friend (an electronics tech and wise old sage), if I must mention, told me once "Its not where you're talking (frequency) but who you're talking to". I found this interesting because there are so many who's only concern is "where" they are communicating.
I'm sure a lot of riff raff aren't interested also. I guess its OK then that the good folks are collateral losses as long as the undesirables are shunted away.
Some will take what I said to mean there are no intelligent hams. Something as silly as this is a way for them to discredit me in their own minds as someone who is off the page and makes no sense on any subject.
KC7JTY
P.S. I'd scan my hard copy of the QST piece and post it but I don't want to take the chance of violating some copyright law. Bill
KB1GYQ
06-24-2003, 09:54 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ June 24 2003,15:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ June 23 2003,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[I understood your post to refer to intellegent people who are disinterested in amateur radio, and another poster interperted it to mean that rife-raf aren't interested. Which was your intent, it might be me who misunderstood.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm thinking there are a lot of good people (intelligent, well spoken, "polite", technically oriented, electronics hobbiests) who pass by ham radio for previously mentioned reasons. Its a loss to amateur radio in my opinion. I'm a NO CODER and intend to stay that way, so my opinion doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OK, who said your opinion doesn't matter!?
I was one of those who stayed away from amateur radio; turned off by the negativism and code idiots shortly after incentive licensing went through. I am here now, thanks to the no-code license, and ignorance of the BS on the net. If I had seen what goes on here, I would have taken pause once again; but I didn't, so now they have to put up with me! Currently I'm (finally) doing the experimentation with computer radio network protocols that I had wanted to do years ago, and enjoying the PSE's, bad weather and all.
kc7jty
06-25-2003, 07:48 PM
A few words about "Dumbing Down":
I was flipping through the tv channels recently and saw (on cops I believe it was) a female cop (police person) trying to kick a sick or injured pigeon, that couldn't fly, out of the street that was busy with traffic. She said afterward that she accoplished something good that day.
Had she been hit by a car or caused an accident it would have been in the line of duty and the driver/s involved would have been in a real pickle.
A man in the wonderfull state of New Jersey was arrested some years ago for killing a rat that he'd caught in his garden.
Dumbing down is a national thing. We live in a culture where common sense is held as something that has no value. Its very politically correct. There is nothing more politically correct than a politician. Think about this the next time you consider voting.
Its only natural that this pandemic problem is going to spill over into everything including ham radio. Of course some think the dumbing down of ham radio is due to the lack of interest in Morse code.
KB1GYQ:
Hang in there. Morse as a requirement may be getting dumped in the next week or so. The "rules & regulations" can be changed.
KC7JTY
P.S. The NO CODE extra is coming.
KG6OPR
06-25-2003, 07:58 PM
I hope they don't dump the code. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
# # # # # # # # # #73, OPR
KB1GYQ
06-25-2003, 08:14 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ June 25 2003,15:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KB1GYQ:
Hang in there. Morse as a requirement may be getting dumped in the next week or so. The "rules & regulations" can be changed.
KC7JTY
P.S. The NO CODE extra is coming.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Likely true, there was no support for retaining the international code requirement, and the FCC isn't even tracking "tech" vs. "tech w/code", so I'd expect relatively quick action.
I hope the "extra" class retains the code requirement -- there was enough ill-will generated over incentive licensing and the no-code class already, leave the code lovers their refuge and let them enjoy it. But as for the rest... get rid of the requirement, it just doesn't make sense anymore - look at the new 60m allocations for an example.
Notice to flamers: I do NOT want code outlawed. Some people enjoy it, and it does have it's uses. And I have great respect for the operator who can read two of more QSO's at a time, no DSP's!
Well, I have been biting my tongue since way back on page three, but when JTY starts talking about the "dumbing down" of America, I just can't hold it back any more.
He is absolutely correct that not only America, but the whole world is becoming a victim of the "me too, I gotta have it too" philosophy. That, as far as I am concerned, is a major symptom of the "dumbing down" of this world.
No longer is working for a goal considered to be a noble thing. If someone else has something, then , by Golly, I've got to have that something, too ! ! ! It doesn't matter if that person worked for years toward the goal, and failed painfully and miserably, perhaps many times, before finally accomplishing it. If he has it, then I've got a right to have it too!
I challenge you to disagree with me that that mindset contributes greatly to the ill feelings and contention between the "no-code" hams and the "Old Fh_rt" Extras ! ( among others ! )
The "no-code" argument ( and isn't it amazing that so many of these threads turn into another rehash of the issue ? ) might be quashed forever by official actions that could be taken by the F.C.C. in the next few months. The whole issue could become very academic very shortly!
However, the "dumbing of America" is going to continue its course, I am afraid, unless something is done very quickly to reverse it.
I have earned a 1st Class RadioTelephone License, which is worthless today, and I have also earned an Extra Class Amateur License, which is also about to become worthless as far as any "extra" privileges are concerned. I think I have as much right as anybody to be angry that some "young whippersnapper" can come on the air and operate the same bands as I do, with only 5 wpm cw under his belt, and memorized answers from a question pool. Perhaps there is some repressed anger lurking around, but I can tell you that my overwhelming feelings are of sadness!
God Bless America! And let us all hope and pray that something can be done to turn things around, before it's too late!
73 from Jim AG3Y
Newcomers have entered our ranks. Reports have it that they are operating off wavelength using long, drawn-out calls and signing at infrequent intervals.
-QST October 1925
KB1GYQ
06-25-2003, 09:49 PM
The dumbing of America is the result of being paid more to entertain or sell than to design and develop things; when you are told that you are "over-qualified" for a job, especially one selling things you used to design.
It has an much to do with radio operators and knowing morse code as it does with automobile drivers and knowing how to adjust a manual spark advance.
Jim AG3Y:
I'm not sure that I can agree with the dumbing down angle. There is just so much more to learn today that the average person will just skim the top of subjects. The average person (and even kid) understands how to use complex communication, networking and computation devices. Compare yesterdays Stroger phone system to todays PCS/LD/Internet network. In the past all one had to do was to learn to operate one universal device (the dial phone) and you were set. Now one needs to know a new mobile device every few years that has more options than a sane person can make use of. Using the Internet requires a whole skill set of computer operation, basic network understanding, virus and scam avoidence, and whole new set of social skills. Compare yesterdays AM radio and 12 channel TV to todays entertainment systems. If we are getting dumber then I don't understand how all these new devices are being made or used.
As far as the FCC tests go, I don't know. That has a lot more to do with politics, budgets and lobbys than strict techical requirements. The FCC part 97 requirements really haven't been dumbed down, just the gateway to the license. Also, todays radios are just better radios and stay on frequency, produce a cleaner signal and operate in a fashion that knowing a Hartley from a Colpits isn't really going to help much when you have to fix it.
The Extra test should be hard, maybe harder. Code should stay there for the Extra. But let more people get on and use the General bands. I would almost say that Extras should have to be re-tested every five or so years. Make the Extra license really mean something again, but let those that are generally interested in HF get a General ticket so they can learn if and why they want to achieve Extra status.
And Jim, don't worry. When I take my extra test it won't be with just memorized pool answers. I got my First Class way back when I was cutting my teeth on Harris, BE CCA, Collins, and RCA. It's not a real radio unless it requires outside air http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
If the FCC decides to do away with amateur code testing, I will accept that decision and get on with life. I will continue doing what I'm doing -- trying to keep the Nate Newbies of the world from turning into lids. Just because someone didn't have to take a code test does not necessarily mean they'll be a lid. People become lids, usually, because nobody took the time to teach them better.
But one thing I will not tolerate is any gloating over the removal of the code requirement, and I've seen some possible hints of it in this thread. There's something to be admired about those who meet the challenge of the current requirements, as opposed to deliberately waiting and waiting for the requirements to come down. I know people who made a point of taking the 13 and 20 wpm code tests before they were phased out. I respect that.
When the code requirement goes away, I would suggest that those who stand to benefit directly accept the OPPORTUNITY presented to them with respect and gratitude.
There will be those who will see the removal of the code requirement as some sort of "victory." They will see it as a case of "we were right all along." I'd suggest that such people not flatter themselves -- If code testing goes away, it will be because times have changed, and it's politically expedient to do so.
Someone on this thread suggested keeping a code requirement for Extra Class. I like that idea. Additional privileges for people who have demonstrated additional skills. I don't expect this to happen, but it would be a real show of class (really, no pun intended) by the FCC.
Here's a suggested rule change that will make people mad: Vanity calls for Extras only. That way, there's still SOME incentive (ooooh, bad word) to upgrade. Flame on, baby. Bring it on - I can take it.
Out.
kc7jty
06-26-2003, 09:54 PM
KB1GYQ:
The code lover's refuge can be on the CW portions of the bands. There they will be completely separated away from the no coders.
W3SY:
Here's a hint:
Yeah right!! Like the status quo hasn't been gloating over the fact that the code has been a requirement for these past many years. We useless bums (no coders) have had to tolerate that!
Can I be thinking pay back time may be close at hand?
I must say however your attitude to keep the Nate Newbies from becoming permanent lids is the right one. It's unfortunate it is not shared by many.
KC7JTY
Hi W7COM !
I went to your web site, and I must admit that I was very impressed ! I have also worked with the type of stuff you have assembled and must say that it takes a great deal of knowledge and expertise to keep such equipment in top shape, not to mention getting it operational in the first place. My congrats to you on such an impressive setup!
There are several people on this forum, as well as in the workplace, and in diverse locations that I have had the great pleasure to meet either in person, or electronically, and get to know better. Highly involved discussions with these people on many different subjects are usually fascinating, and I am often left awestruck over the amount of knowledge that these people command. I suspect that as I get to know you better in the future, I will feel that way about you!
However, if you read my post again carefully, you will find that I am NOT talking about those certain achievers that have advanced the sciences and arts, and have progressed to the level of expertise they have attained, through hard work, study and extensive effort.
The certain advancement of Commercial and Consumer Electronics that you use as an example to put forth your argument that America is not being "dummed down", has come about through the concentrated efforts of a small minority of individuals who HAVE achieved these results through their hard hard work, study, and extensive effort!
On the other hand, the vast majority of people who use these Computers, Home Theater Systems, Microwave Ovens, (dare I mention certain Ham Radio Equipment ? ), hardly have enough knowledge of the devices to manage them at the most basic level. That is where the expression "appliance operator" came from. If there were not certain "manufacturers defaults" built into this equipment, arguably, most of it would never perform to within 30% of its ultimate potential.
Anyone who has been an Information Technology support person, or even a sales or technical representative for some popular brands of Home Theater Systems or other electronics could certainly vouch for that! How many VCR's clocks are still not set to the right time? Now days some of them can set themselves, so the answer might not be as many as it once was, but even this is an example of the many benefitting from the expertise of the few!
Possession of a sophisticated piece of electronic equipment, and the ability to operate its basic functions, does not make an "expert" out of anybody!
The "Dumbing of America" is a situation that is becoming more pronounced over the years. One of the greatest faults I see in the situation is, as I have stated, the "me too" attitude that so many people have, nowdays.
I applaud the sincere effort of the person who desires to learn as much about something (anything) as he/she possibly can. It is the slothful sluggard that feeds off of other's efforts and shows no interest in digging out the information for himself/herself, that gets my goat!
A careful study of the questions put forth on this forum and through other venues will quickly separate the wheat from the chaff!
Best 73 and hope to chat with you again, soon!
Jim AG3Y
KB1GYQ
06-27-2003, 02:34 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ June 26 2003,17:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The code lover's refuge can be on the CW portions of the bands. There they will be completely separated away from the no coders.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There are no "CW only" sub-bands except over 50MHz and for tech+; they are "CW,RTTY/data", so us computer literate no-coders will be there too at some point.
KD7WHQ
06-27-2003, 05:35 AM
SY, I won't be gloating if code goes. I'll likely still get myself up to 5 WPM anyway, and see if there is still anyone out there.
I remember a good amount of it (got a kick out of the "bite me" in the cell phone display http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif, just not fully conversant.
Doesn't mean I'll not go in for my element 3 test though http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Not all of us no-code Techs are anti-code, anti-theory, or anti-much anything for that matter.
I'd rather the theory went back into the tests, as I said in another thread.
But, if it goes, it goes.
Then it will be on the individual to learn it, and many may..
73
n6hle
06-27-2003, 01:51 PM
I've read a few posts saying that the code should be kept a requirement for upgrade so that the upgrade will be an incentive for learning the code. I don't agree with this entirely. For myself learning something new is incentive enough for learning the code. I think it's sad that we live in a society that needs incentive to learn something new. Especially in amateur radio. Isn't the joy of learning something new one of the many things that comes with amateur radio?
Now if you'll all excuse me I have to study for the code test.
--... ...--
-.- --. -.... .--. - -..
OM KC7JTY says: "W3SY:
Here's a hint:
Yeah right!! Like the status quo hasn't been gloating over the fact that the code has been a requirement for these past many years. We useless bums (no coders) have had to tolerate that!
Can I be thinking pay back time may be close at hand?"
NOBODY has ever gloated over the code requirement being in place. It was simply that - a requirement. The deal was this -- you wanna get on the air? Learn the code. So we did. At one point in the history of 2-way radio communication, it was considered essential to have CW skill. Now, times have changed, and CW skill is now considered optional. So be it. I'm still gonna have MY fun with hamming either way.
Sorry, but I don't dig this "pay back time" rap. I don't care for that attitude. It's not "pay back." It's a very generous gift being given to you and others who have, FOR WHATEVER REASON, decided not to meet the code requirement for HF privileges. Accept the gift. Cherish the new opportunity, and make the most of it. Show that, at the end of the day, you are as good a ham as the guy who did have to learn code. If you do that, who can possibly bust your chops? I know for sure I wouldn't.
Come in with an attitude of "Ha, take THAT, sucka! Lookit me, I'm HERE! NYAAA NYAAAA!" and you'll make those who pressed hard for keeping the code requirement look RIGHT.
If it's <span style='color:red'>revenge</span> you really want, your best revenge is to show that you are as qualified an operator as anyone else - code or no code - without being overly proud of arriving, as some might suggest, the "easy" way.
Gentlemen, the briefing is over.
Out.
KB1GYQ
06-27-2003, 08:34 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 27 2003,13:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NOBODY has ever gloated over the code requirement being in place. It was simply that - a requirement. ...
Sorry, but I don't dig this "pay back time" rap. I don't care for that attitude. ...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I guess you haven't been reading QRZ.com lately. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Yes, it is "payback" ... for all the abuse no-code techs have taken at the hands of the "code or die" folks. I don't care for that attitude! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
BTW, I support keeping the code on extra as "good will", even when it is not required for "general", assuming that class is kept. Far too much harm has been done over this issue. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
kf7qq
06-28-2003, 05:30 AM
Sup Nate?
kc7jty
06-28-2003, 07:12 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 27 2003,10:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NOBODY has ever gloated over the code requirement being in place. It was simply that - a requirement.
Sorry, but I don't dig this "pay back time" rap. I don't care for that attitude. It's not "pay back."[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ditto time:
Looks like I've already been been beaten to it.
I remember reading very specifically in QST about a pro coder GLOATING over the fact that if the code requirement was dropped at the 2003 meeting in Geneva that it would be too late for any possible new no code HFers to take advantage of the latest DX solar cycle. That quashes your "NOBODY" idea. I'm not going to mention the many others that I know feel the same way. I think you're too far up in the ivory tower to know what is happening on the ground.
KC7JTY
W5HTW
06-29-2003, 01:41 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ June 28 2003,12:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I remember reading very specifically in QST about a pro coder GLOATING over the fact that if the code requirement was dropped at the 2003 meeting in Geneva that it would be too late for any possible new no code HFers to take advantage of the latest DX solar cycle. That quashes your "NOBODY" idea. I'm not going to mention the many others that I know feel the same way. I think you're too far up in the ivory tower to know what is happening on the ground.
KC7JTY[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's actually true, whether or not it is a gloat by a pro-code ham. But it doesn't preclude operating in the next upswing, a few years from now. We have all had to wait through the downturns in years past, and perhaps now it is your turn, along with the rest of us; you won't be doing it alone. Not a one of us set up the solar cycles to P___ you off.
It is, though, too bad you didn't have the ambition to climb the ivory tower yourself, but to wait for it to be crumpled at your feet so you could step on it. Some people like challenge and achievement, some don't. Despite the fact you couldn't learn the code, literally hundreds of thousands of wannabe hams before you did do so. I suppose that could be construed to suggest current generations are not as capable as past ones, but I suspect it just really means they are lazier. Or perhaps just in a bigger hurry to have it handed to them now, and don't have 'time' to work for it.
Well, you have won. I admit it, and that's fine - I can do things you can't do, such as work code! I suspect, though, you have also lost, and don't yet know it. The sad thing is you are not the only one who has lost, but the entire ham radio hobby has lost. Your working of HF may be very similar to the skip worked on another well-known band, perhaps without the profanity, but certainly with much, much more interference, both accidental and intentional.
My guess is, in a few months, many of the current hams, both experienced and not-so-experienced, will be longing lamentedly for the "Good old days of early 2003."
Welcome to the new ham radio. I hope, though, your spiteful and resentful attitude here is not continued on the air, where we are all hams.
73
ed
Gee, I'm up the Ivory Tower? If only I had known that, I might have tried to enjoy the view. HAW!!
Maybe you'd best explain that one. I can only guess you mean either:
1) I'm a higher up in the ARRL hierarchy. Nope... just a dues paying member (for now, at least). Not an officer, director, or field appointee.
2) Out of touch with "the common ham." Not so. Didn't I already say I've long helped newbies of every description? Only thing they all had in common was the desire to learn something.
3) A long time licensee with an Extra ticket and real code proficiency. Guilty. I guess it's my fault I got my ticket 33 years ago when I was 13. It's my fault that I studied, learned, and used CW. And it's my fault that I sat for, and passed, all the available amateur test elements. Yeah, I did all those things. So what? So have a helluva lot of other guys and gals I know. Why did I do it? I guess I liked the challenge. I guess I wanted the additional operating privileges. I sorta wanted to get a 2-letter call too. So I did it. If that puts me too far up the "Ivory Tower" to understand the feelings of those who don't like code, I guess I'd better move over and make room for the thousands of others of similar description.
Har...
Out.
kc7jty
06-30-2003, 07:49 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ June 28 2003,18:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, you have won. #I admit it, and that's fine -[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We still have a long way to go. The FCC has to drop the Morse requirement here in the US. You still have time before the HF bands are completely trashed by my kind.
KC7JTY
kc7jty
06-30-2003, 07:53 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 27 2003,10:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NOBODY[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
W3SY:
You did say "nobody"....and in CAPS too.
KC7JTY
Well, that's what I said. Nobody is gleeful about you being excluded from HF. If anything, they probably would LOVE to see you on there as soon as you pass the test.
I posted this response to another thread, but I believe it bears repeating here:
The Radio Amateur is
CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.
LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in the United States is represented nationally and internationally.
PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.
FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.
BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.
PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and community.
--The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928.
Especially consider the "Friendly" item. If you have any issue with this, you can take up the argument with Paul Segal W9EEA, and if you get any argument in return, I sure would like to hear about it ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
73 from Jim AG3Y
I like that updated version. I remember the original version written by Segal. It was becoming a bit dated.
But the spirit is the same.
The "friendly" part originally started with "Slow and patient sending....."
Times HAVE changed! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Out.
kc7jty
07-02-2003, 06:04 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ July 01 2003,09:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, that's what I said. Nobody is gleeful about you being excluded from HF. If anything, they probably would LOVE to see you on there as soon as you pass the test.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You are completely off the page on this one.....I'm a no coder and intend to stay that way. There are thousands that are gleefull as heck that I'm not able to TX on HF.
KC7JTY
N0FFA
07-02-2003, 06:20 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ June 27 2003,13:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 27 2003,13:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NOBODY has ever gloated over the code requirement being in place. It was simply that - a requirement. ...
Sorry, but I don't dig this "pay back time" rap. I don't care for that attitude. ...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I guess you haven't been reading QRZ.com lately. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Yes, it is "payback" ... for all the abuse no-code techs have taken at the hands of the "code or die" folks. I don't care for that attitude! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
(NOTICE: I'm plagarizing myself for most of this from another thread. I may be too lazy to pen an original reply, but give me a break, I've been practicing to get my code speed up.)
These forums contain plenty of attitude, but they exist in a vacuum. Thinking the opinions expressed here represent the timbre of the majority of hams is equivalent to viewing overpass grafitti as a roadsign.
I'm pretty new at this myself and I can only speak for what I've observed and experienced out in the 'real world'. I've been to hamfests, ham radio stores, visited several clubs (even joined one) and have yet to have anyone be other than friendly and welcoming. I've even had many a simple or dumb question patiently answered without so much as a roll of the eyes.
By way of having my call sign on my truck license plate, I even met a few pretty crusty ol timers who have taken the initiative to introduce themselves and start talking radio.
I guess I'm fortunate to be enough of an a$$ myself that I don't really give a hoot that some OF would berate me for getting my general ticket at only 5wpm and without havin' to build a working xmtr in front of a sour pussed FCC examiner out of a box of old TV parts and baling wire. I want more out of ham radio than the basic minimum anyway.
I read these forums before getting licensed and certainly felt a cold draft at times. So what? My guess is that if someone takes up bowling or model airplane flying or whatever, a ceratin percentage of the 'old timers' (a figurative not literal expression) will give 'em a bit of the cold shoulder. Do a bit of Elmerin' yourself by just dealing with guys like that. The same guy who's a dick today will have to realize at some point you're OK (assuming that you are) even if you are a no-code tech. If he doesn't come around, the time will come when he'll need some help climbing a tower or some such task and find himself alone. Who loses in the long run?
This is too long to be 2 cents worth, so call it a quarter.
KB1GYQ
07-03-2003, 02:38 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0OXQ @ July 02 2003,14:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">These forums contain plenty of attitude, but they exist in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am aware of that; yet, like I said elsewhere, I waited thirty years to get my license because of the piss-poor attitude of the ARRL, bitterness of the ham's I knew over the changes, and the class warfare that resulted. If I had seen what is on the net before I took my test I would likely have waited longer. - It isn't a total vacuum -- it is seen by all who care to look, and it isn't pretty.
N0FFA
07-03-2003, 12:35 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 02 2003,19:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it is seen by all who care to look, and it isn't pretty.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Does the fact that x number of traffic accidents occur everyday keep you from driving? The fact that you may be robbed while you're gone keep you from leaving the house?
Life is what YOU make it. Whether it's ham radio, finding a job or training monkeys to ride Border Collies at the rodeo.
KB1GYQ
07-03-2003, 03:48 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0OXQ @ July 03 2003,08:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 02 2003,19:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it is seen by all who care to look, and it isn't pretty.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Does the fact that x number of traffic accidents occur everyday keep you from driving? The fact that you may be robbed while you're gone keep you from leaving the house?
Life is what YOU make it. Whether it's ham radio, finding a job or training monkeys to ride Border Collies at the rodeo.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now, now... a large amount of crime does cause people to avoid certain parts of the city if they can, does it not?
Failure to learn from past experiances, your own or those of others, is absolute stupidity. These boards are presenting a bitter "holy war".
N0FFA
07-03-2003, 06:19 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 03 2003,08:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now, now... a large amount of crime does cause people to avoid certain parts of the city if they can, does it not?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
EXACTLY my point! I don't avoid my favorite jazz club, just the park with the crack whores. Ignore the few naysayers who only care about what test you passed when and enjoy the vast majority of fellow hams who don't give a flying flip!
Well I'm off to the Ozarks for some Jeepin' and camping. I'll probably run in to some of those Jeep guys constantly arguing whether a real Jeep has round headlights or square headlights, leaf springs or coil springs, shiny paint or rock rash......blah, blah, blah. I like to lock the diffs, crank the tunes and say, "Huh? What? Can't hear you" and head on up the rocks.
Have a happy and safe 4th.
KB1GYQ
07-03-2003, 06:52 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Jeep guys constantly arguing whether a real Jeep has round headlights or square headlights, leaf springs or coil springs, shiny paint or rock rash[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My vote is for round headlights, leaf springs, and rock-rash, but who cares, what matters is if it gets the job done.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Have a happy and safe 4th.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Tku & hpi 4th 2u2