Dishonest Well Known Dealers.

[KG4YJR]

Some well known businesses are doing the same thing that the low-lifes do on eBay and that's selling equipment that's not what was advertised or requested. Here's my experience with one of those types. I placed an order on the phone with R & L Electronics and was told that the radio I wanted only had one left in stock. I said that if the radio was a demo or display model that I was not interested in making the purchase but was told it was not. When I received the radio it was quite obvious that the radio had been opened and re-packed and when I telephoned the sales person did not deny that it had. His stupid and unacceptable excuse was "we take them out of the box to show people". Isn't that what a display model is for? He was a total jerk and said the only way for me to get my money refunded was to ship the radio back at my cost. My cost for their dishonesty, too much RF exposure I guess. I personally will avoid this merchant and advise others to as well. You may not get what you paid for. When you get an opened box item there is no way of knowing what that piece of equipment has been through. Demo, display, return, there's no proof and for dealers to expect us to just accept what we got is pretty low-rent and sleazy. #I collected about a dozen other letters from other forums that tell the same type of story or worse when dealing with R & L.

[KD7WHQ]

Some sort of offset is in order, but my experience with display models (my VCR is one), is that they are 100% functional, and still carry the standard warrantee.
I got 15% off on my VCR, as an example of offset.

Display models don't really get much use. I imagine that radios get even less than home entertainment components. This does not detract from functionality at all. Could even be considered "burn in" in fact.

I would ask for a 10% refund based on "not as described" or something similar, and enjoy the rig.

73

Will

[K9STH]

I don't know the practice of the company that you purchased the radio from. I do know that several dealers advertise that they do open a "factory sealed" box and check out the unit before they ship it to you. This is to try to avoid a "DOA" (dead on arrival) unit. This practice is quite common in this area (Dallas, Texas, area) from the dealers in the high end entertainment electronics. They supposedly "burn in" the units for 24 to 72 hours to make sure that there are no problems.

I do know that such a practice makes sense, especially in the mass produced equipment.

Anyway, if the unit was actually a "display" or "demonstration" unit, then most companies will make allowances for this in their pricing.

Glen, K9STH

[w5alt]

Sorry fella, but it sounds like you're over-reacting. Calm down and take a minute to relax.

Just because the unit was shown to someone, doesn't mean it's used. I, personally, would never buy a radio at a store without opening the box to see that it works. When I mail order a rig, I specifically ask that they open the box and check it out before shipping it. The better dealers will do that without you requesting it. I've had the experience of ordering and getting units that were obviously "new and unopened" - and obviously DOA. That's the manufacturer's, not the store's fault, but they have to handle the problem.

So, if you feel it was a real display model, ask for a discount. If they just opened it up to make sure it wasn't DOA or showed it to someone else, take the time to thank them for their consideration!

73,

[n9adr]

I buy all of my equipment from R & L and have had nothing but good luck with them. They usually have what I want, I have never received any bad products from them. I think they're great to deal with.

They probably did take it out of the box just to show someone the unit.

73, Matt N9ADR

[k3sam]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He was a total jerk and said the only way for me to get my money refunded was to ship the radio back at my cost.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Not So.

That is the main reason I use credit cards for my purchases. #If you are not satisfied, call the credit card company, explain what happened, and have them place a CHARGE BACK on that item. #You may keep the equipment until they ( R&amp;L ) send a UPS pickup slip. #Yes, they have to pay the shipping both ways, not you.

I doubt if R&amp;L will ever deal with you again, however that is their loss, not yours.

-Sam

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>PS: #I have nothing against R&amp;L and have purchased from them in the past.</span>

[KG4YJR]

In response to several comments above, the radio was sold to me as &quot;new&quot;. I don't know these people so when I get a box that's been opened the proof that it's new is gone. And what's this taking it out of the box crap? If you take it out of the box to show someone every time wouldn't it make sense to have a display to begin with? Sell the person the one you took out of the box too. No offer was ever made as far as a discount. The bottom line and I don't think a couple of you were paying attention (you are the kind of customer that lets them get away with this too) when I said that I requested NOT TO BE SENT A DISPLAY OR STORE DEMO in the first place but R &amp; L said &quot;Screw him!&quot; and sent it anyway. That's dishonesty and fraud. If it were more expensive equipment like an HF rig I'd have done a charge back you bet. In this case it was only a $100 CB walkie talkie. As long as I have it in my possesion for the &quot;new&quot; price I paid I'll keep warning as many consumers as possible about the lying and fraud that took place with my purchase.

73
Dave

[WA2ZDY]

Ah where is the thorazine and cogentin when ya need it?

Seriously though, while I agree with the majority here, the original poster does have a point. #If he specified that he did not want one that had been demonstrated, displayed, etc, his wishes should have been honoured. #That the retailer chose to ignore the wishes of the customer SHOULD be distressing. #If the retailer had a problem with the original request, they should have declined his business. #

Doing business is all a matter of trust to a degree. #If the box is opened for whatever reason, he's right, you really don't know that what you're getting is new. #Fortunately, most of us do ok with word of mouth and most retailers are straight up. #But . . . #the possibility is there for any one of us to get screwed at any random time.

I think the original poster has seriously overreacted, but some of his points are valid.

Good luck to all.

[KG4YJR]

Over reacting? In some people's opinion maybe. Years ago in the mid '80s I was in the car selling business. Worked at mom and pop used car dealers and the &quot;BRAND NEW&quot; auto manufacter dealerships. Seen all the tricks, a person buys a car, drives it a week then finds out that they can't afford it or the financing falls through, the car is cleaned up and stuck back out on the lot as new. Ever test drive a new automobile with 100+ miles of so-called &quot;test drives&quot;? Still new right? I've even seen an automobile with a fatality involved fixed and sold again. New paint, blood stains all cleaned up, fooled everbody. But hey...as long as it runs good then everything's ok right? As I mentioned before, they counted on suckers with weak minds and attitudes like that. It's you people's money so do as you please but my money is very important to me. Whether you try to steal $1 or $1000 from me, in my opinion you are still a crook. And just for your info...believe it or not, the mom and pop used car dealers were more honest than the big &quot;new&quot; auto dealers.

P.S. Favorite car dealer quote:

&quot;My wife has/drives one of these here _ (fill in the blank) and she loves it.&quot;

That's with every car they sell. HA! HA!

73
Dave

[w5alt]

Ahhh, now I understand the problem. My sincerest condolences for losing your ability to trust people. That truly must be a sad state to live in.

To me taking a radio out of the box to show someone is not the same as a display model - maybe I'm naive. Display models get used. Many times I've gone into a store and asked about different models. Many times they open the box and let me look at the manual, etc., then repacked the box. It was still unused, still garanteed, etc. And more than once I found out it wasn't what I wanted and bought another model instead. I don't think that constitues fraud.

If you feel so strongly about it, just tell your credit card company you're not satisfied, cancel the transaction, send the radio back and be done.

And the next time, if you mean that you don't want the box to have been opened, then say that. I may be wrong, but from what you have said, it appears to me that you got an unused, non-display model as you requested and are complaining that the box had been opened and repacked.

73,

[kc9ani]

I think this same listing is on every amateur radio quorum on the web. Get over it. If you are dissatisfied return the product and/or deal with your credit card company. Yours is one of the very few problems I have ever seen listed from R and L. I have no connnection but have bought several (too many) items from R and L. I had a problem with a few items and always was taken care of. Customer service is not perfect. Some people complain if you hang them with a new rope. Hi Hi.

[KG4YJR]

Good for you Walt.
And as for kc9ani, I'll tell as many people about this as I want. You don't have to read about it if you don't want to so if you see my posts don't read them. These forums are for people to post opinions on both sides. R &amp; L themselves are welcome to even tell their side. I'd love for them to justify to the public why they think doing business like this is acceptable. You won't hear me tell then not to post anything good. Also, if you would like I can forward a letter from one of their local customers that was sent to me and let you read about things even worse than what happened to me.

At one time they were my only dealer and I spend between $80 - $200 a month on amateur gear. I've previously posted good feedback about them too.

73
Dave

[N7VQM]

YJR:

Yes, you're right. #People can post opinions for both sides in this forum. #However, you're jumping up and down and rasing your (and others) blood pressure over what could have been an honest mistake. #Every business has its foibles. #Everyone makes a mistake now and then. #We can't get around that.

I find that, if I have a problem with the service I recieved from a company, it helps to give the folks the benefit of the doubt before I grab the phone to complain. #That way, when I do talk to them, it doesn't sound like I'm just crabing. #Suddenly, they will jump through flaming hoops to get it right.

Of course, I say all this not knowing exactly how you approched the situation but, your initial post sounded pretty hot under the collar. #If I were you, I would have just negotiated for a refund of part of the price.

[KA8NCR]

Amateur radio equipment isn't a mass-market consumer electronics market. #It may seem that way at times, but the sad fact is that it isn't. #So the rules that apply at your local Best Buy are different than when dealing with small retailers like R&amp;L. #

The amateur radio community enjoys some benefits of equipment purchase because it's not a mass-market product. #That is, if you go to a hamfest or visit the retailer's store, you can not only view the product, but slide it out of the box, read the manual and measure the darned thing with a measuring tape to make sure it'll fit in your car. #I'm sure you can think of many other conveniences that are afforded to buyers by the retailer.

If you want to make a stink out of this, just remember that for every (knee-jerk) reaction, there is an equal and opposite (retailer) force that'll make it more and more just like buying from Best Buy or Circuit City. #Personally, I could do without the Best Buy experience when purchasing amateur radio gear.

By the way, the last rig I purchase was *clearly* opened and repacked. #It wasn't used, but I'm sure it was pulled from the box so an interested buyer could have a once-over with it. #Kinda reminds you of what retailing used to be like in the old-days.

[WB2WIK]

Many resellers guarantee 100% that they will take all equipment out of its original packing to verify contents, that the equipment matches the S/N on the carton, etc -- and it's not unusual for that to be a firm policy.

In my business, we surely expect our resellers to unpack our stuff before they ship it to the end user; otherwise, the equipment would not be correctly localized, and a poor user in France could end up with an instruction manual in Mandarin.

WB2WIK/6

[XV2PS]

In a country I've lived, when you buy a new TV, the sellers buy you back the carton box and all paperwork for about 2-3 USD.

They buy second hand TV, renew it as 100% new (almost impossible to detect, even you look to some abbrasion on connections sockets, rubber feets,...), and then you know that maybe the new TV you just bought is a scrap http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Hehe, fun enough.

[KD7KOY]

I agree your overreacting..if the radio was simply used to show someone...if it still carries the warranty and there is no scratches etc (which you could ask for a discount..)what's the big deal?..

[k4dje]

I've bought most of my radio equipment from R&amp;L. I live close so I drive up there and look things over. I have only had one bad item and they stood by it. The item failed after the store warranty period but they still replaced it. I think I had it 6 weeks, They didn't want to replace it but they did. In their place I wouldn't want to replace it either. What they did bought them my loyalty. I don't know what happened with you and your radio but it probably was a situation where they checked it out before sending it to you. I don't look for cb's but I don't remember any hand helds being on display.

[WA7KKP]

Many years ago I worked for a ham radio dealer that routinely checked out new gear for proper operation, and repackaged it for sale. On only a couple occasions did the customer complain that it wasn't &quot;factory sealed&quot;.

Just a matter of semantics, really. If the radio works as you expected it to, what's the beef? A floor demo is preferred in my eyes because I know it has to work right, or the dealer couldn't sell radios.

Keep in mind that even though you like &quot;NEW&quot; hamgear, as soon as you unbox it and plug it in , it becomes USED. Only difference between new and used is a warranty anyway. And that's the premium you pay.

I shop for used, and I fix non-working items myself.

Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif now let me see if i got the facts straight... this individual bought s $100 c b radio ( hand held unit ) { paid way too much $ }, then sends it back and COMPLAINS about it on this forum ( QRZ.com )...isnt this a primarily an AMATEUR radio forum, or did some one change the title over night from a CB complain site ? I see advertisements to my left about &quot;auto tuners, all mode radios, heil microphones, etc.&quot;...I dont see no advertisements for 11 meter equipment, not even an ANTRON 99 for 10 - 12 meters ...gee maybe it is common now to go to the FORD web site and complain about your CHEVY not running right !! {lol}

[KC8QMU]

YJR,

I wouldn't be happy also. When I buy something brand new, I expect it to come sealed from the factory. If it isn't have the courtesy to tell me so before I buy it. If it comes with the same warranty it wouldn't be a big deal to me, but the seller should have the courtesy to say so in the first place.

And amg, by the way, I'm on a Ford website, and yes, people come to it about Chevy problems sometimes. Reason- the Ford websites usually have people that can answer their questions- the Chevy sites are more like a flame-fest for anything but Chevys http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KG4YJR]

MattBeer....when you quit whining about your Heil microphones I'll quit whining about the CB (which I bought strictly for entertainment purposes) deal? Just kidding, it's not really mine or anybody else's business what you complain about or how often you do and if it bothers me I just won't read the posts. Is there a price cut-off limit for customer complaints? You and many others seem to have double standards and bad advice when it's not your money involved. By the way, buy your next HF rig from R &amp; L and tell the Dave sent ya'.

AND NOW FOR THE BIG NEWS ALERT:

Due to the many weak minds who don't think that the ham radio manufacters are not honest enough or capable of selling items that work to the public forcing store owners to open the boxes to make sure the equipment works and all the parts are there has made the goverment think that this should apply to all sales of all products. The next time you buy a jig-saw puzzle from the store you better make sure one of the employees counted all the pieces before you leave the store.

Anybody else interested in some slightly used toilet paper? It's only been used once.

73
Dave

[K9STH]

YJR:

It is a known fact that the &quot;infant mortality&quot; of solid-state equipment is between 10 and 15 percent. That is, the chances for failure of at least one sold-state device within the first 30 days, or so, is pretty great. This is why the military and many commercial users demand a &quot;burn-in&quot; period before they accept the item. They just don't want the item to fail.

Also, where humans are involved there is a definite chance of error in things like acessory items packed, manual choices (of course you do want your instruction manual to be printed in English instead of Mandarin don't you?), and the like. Frankly, you would be unpleasantly surprised to find all of the errors that have been made by factory employees. This is especially true of those items that have been manufactured &quot;off shore&quot;. Most of the employees do not speak English, at least as their primary language, and thus numerous mistakes are made.

Now, as to your right to gripe about your dealings you are within those rights so long as you do not violate the guidelines set forth by the ownership of QRZ.com. But, when you express those gripes you also have to be in a position to accept the opinions of those people who disagree with you.

QRZ.com is a site that was set up for exchanges of ideas (including opinions) for things concerning amateur radio. It isn't outside of the opinions of the other people who post on this site to make comments about griping about a CB purchase. Although the subject is radio related, they do have a point about the Class &quot;D&quot; Citizen's Radio Service subject. But, so long as the exchanges do not get personal, profane, obscene, etc., the subject is allowed to remain on the site.

If the item that you received was damaged in any manner, was missing any accessory item that is supposed to be included, did not receive full new equipment warranty, and the like, then you definitely have a legitimate situation to complain about. If you were not satisfied in any way with the purchase, then you should return the item at the supplier's expense and notify your credit card company as to what you did and why you did it. The credit card company will credit your account and &quot;bill back&quot; the charges to the shipping company. If the equipment meets your expectations except for the fact that the box had been opened previously then you can either accept it as is or else return it at the company's expense.

You have spent much more time and energy complaining that the box had been opened previously by posting all over the Internet than the item is worth. If you are dis-satisfied with your purchase then take the necessary steps to return the item and then purchase it somewhere else if you are still interested in owning it. Your attempts to discredit the business practices of the supplier may, or may not, have affected the opinons of those people who are considering purchasing of equipment from the supplier. For some people you may have disuaded them from purchasing from the company. For others you may have just had to opposite effect, they may be interested in the fact that the item was opened and inspected before shipping. Frankly, to each his own.

Anyway, I think that this particular subject is rapidly becomming a resident of the &quot;dead horse&quot; society!

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[KG4YJR]

Hello Glen, K9STH
R &amp; L is primarily a ham equipment store and out of the half dozen purchases (all previously factory sealed) I made that was the first &quot;non-ham&quot; related purchase and was for a minimal cost thankfully instead of a more expensive item. The main purpose of the subject to begin with was to advise other consumers what might happen with a purchase made through them but you go to any forum about anything and the mud-slinging starts. As I mentioned before, everybody loves giving advice when it's not them or their money involved but if they want to purchase a $2000+ HF rig. that's been &quot;test-driven&quot; then my advice to them is go right ahead and buy one from them. They can put their money where there mouth is and as far as the CB comments go, mine and my wife's shacks have all kinds of stuff from PC's, police scanners, shortwave and FRS radios.

73
Dave

[KC8QMU]

To me, it is about a principal of honesty in a transaction in which the buyer is trusting the seller in a situation in which the actual transaction does not occur face to face and hand to hand, while I have never dealt with R and L and cannot make a personal decision in how I feel about their business practices, IT WOULD BE COMMON COURTESY FOR THEM TO TELL THE BUYER IF THEY HAD OPENED THE FACTORY PACKING IN THE FIRST PLACE!

I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW ANAL SOME OF YOU ARE OVER THE CB THING! #THE COMPLAINT COULD JUST AS EASILY APPLY TO A TV SET, A SAUDER FURNITURE BOX, OR A CARTON OF EGGS! #

IT SEEMS THAT SOME PEOPLE TRY TO BRING UP CB RADIO IN ANY POST THEY CAN! #IF YOU ARE SO HUNG UP ON CB'ERS, THEN WHY DON'T SOME OF YOU SELL OUT YOUR AMATEUR STATIONS AND BUY A BIG ILLEGAL CB STATION! #THEN YOU COULD ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE WITH SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE SO DAMNED ENTHRALLED WITH! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KG4YJR]

Hello George,

Yeah it did get a little out of hand. The main thing is buyer beware everywhere these days. We all accept a certain amount of risk when making blind purchases from individuals out of state but we put a lot more trust and have greater expectations in an established business. I got emails with similar stories or worse from the same merchant mentioned above and numerous other merchants. The best email I got was from a person who bought his son an HT at a local ham store and it also showed signs of previous use and had all the local repeater frequencies programmed into it. The guy took it back to the store and they still swore it was a brand new radio. Their excuse was that they program all the radios they sell locally with the repeater frequencies (profit margins be damned). He called their bluff as he didn't see them entered in when he bought it and asked to see more of their &quot;local radios&quot;. Guess what...there wasn't any more left in the store.

73
Dave

[KD5NCO]

Well Dave you managed to get many of us to slog through two or more pages of this issue, and many here have stated their opinions. And you are still jumping up and down insisting that R&amp;L are crooks (my inference from your implication).

My experience:

Over phone ordered new FT-100 from AES, box was opened and resealed. I called, and sales told me they check all boxes out before shipment for reasons previously stated.

As all things appeared brand new, complete and the rig worked... I accepted this as truth

Same with an FT920 from AES
Same with antenna from Burghardt
Same with some MFJ stuff from R&amp;L

Icom 746Pro from R&amp;L,great price, came unopened. PS box did not have the interconnect cord to rig. Called, sales told me that should not be the case because they always open and check. I restated the fact that it was factory closed and showed no sign of prior opening. #The sales guy said that it was possible since they were shipping a lot of them at the time. He found me the correct cable, sent it FEDX next day on their dime and I am happy camper!

Your continued insistence, that because you can find evidence through other customers, that R&amp;L is a dishonest dealer and should not get our business because of your dissatisfaction is unrealistic. They are many more good experiences listed right here in this thread than your singular unsatisfactory one.

Sorry you are unhappy, I think they are a good company and I will do more business with them. #

Your point is taken about what you demand vs what you get expectations. #

But I have to politely point out to you that communication is what we do, and the responsibility to effectively communicate to a seller what your needs are is soley your responsibility.

And there are many problem resolution methods at your disposal to make things right. #Many here have pointed out that they, and I, do not think you are being reasonable and, based on our similar experiences with a variety of purchases, we think you have unrealistic expectations.

Continue to trash a decent company if you must but I suspect any further notes will fall on deaf ears, I know I am spinning the VFO on this one... L8TR

[KG4YJR]

KD5NCO read the posts a little more closely before you comment. I'm not telling anyone not to shop with them. I gave my information and it's up to the individuals to decide if they want to shop with them or not. But since everyday somebody likes to keep dragging this up and putting words in my mouth, let me post somebody else's experience with R &amp; L. You're welcome to pay attention or not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
As posted by KB5PN on QTH.com:

I #personally will never spend another dime with R&amp;L. Not only wil they shaft you on demo equipment, they also will sell broken/defective equipment and lie about it's condition. A few years back I bought a used frequency display for a Yaesu FT101 and the female salesperson assured me that it looked very good and had been checked over by their technican and was in proper working order. When I received the display it appeared that it had been dragged down a rough road behind a truck and it was obvious that it couldn't possibly have been checked and be in working condition as the connecting cable had the connecting plug cut off it.
When I called them I was informed that the salesperson I had talked to no longer worked there and they couldn't be responsible for what she may or may not have told me, therefore no return/no refund.
Fortunately my credit card company saw things in a different light and the display unit was returned w/shipping cod but never again will I consider buying anything from them.

KB5PN

--------------------------------------------------------------------
I would have agreed with the positive posters here about two months ago. R &amp; L was the only dealer I used for a while.

Saying they tested something with a connector cut off? Honest? Have you ever seen the mom's on TV whose son's got caught for robbery or murder on camera or in front of witnesses? They still stand in the court room crying saying &quot;my son is innocent&quot;. That's what some of the posts remind me of but this will my last and final post.
Thanks to everyone for putting up with me and you can all have the last word if you like.

73
Dave #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KD5NCO]

Quote from KD5NCO
Well Dave you managed to get many of us to slog through two or more pages of this issue, and many here have stated their opinions. And you are still jumping up and down insisting that R&amp;L are crooks (my inference from your implication).


Quote from KG4YJR
Some well-known businesses are doing the same thing that the low-lifes do on eBay and that's selling equipment that's not what was advertised or requested

Dave are you implying that R&amp;L are low lifes?

Quote KG4YJR
His stupid and unacceptable excuse was &quot;we take them out of the box to show people&quot;. Isn't that what a display model is for? He was a total jerk and said the only way for me to get my money refunded was to ship the radio back at my cost. #

Fred says &quot;(don't you remember those pesky terms and conditions of sale?)&quot;

Quote KG4YJR
I personally will avoid this merchant and advise others to as well. You may not get what you paid for.

First sentence is reasonable, second implys R&amp;L are crooks.

Quote KG4YJR
I said that I requested NOT TO BE SENT A DISPLAY OR STORE DEMO in the first place but R &amp; L said &quot;Screw him!&quot; and sent it anyway. That's dishonesty and fraud. #

Hey David how do you know that it is what they said or that what they sent is a display? Isn't your four word last statement a stretch?

Quote KG4YJR
The main thing is buyer beware everywhere these days. We all accept a certain amount of risk when making blind purchases from individuals out of state but we put a lot more trust and have greater expectations in an established business.

Fred says:I totally agree with this entire assertion!

English can be fairly precise language Dave. #Through out all your posts you have implied that R&amp;L is not to be trusted. Others have related good experiences. I inferred from your posts that you are not happy with R&amp;L.

You should note that almost every retailer today has some form of &quot;Terms and conditions of sale&quot; and ALL customers are always free to decide that they do NOT accept these terms and shop somewhere else. R&amp;L does inform about the restocking fees, return-shipping costs, and taxes assessed to Ohio residents.

At the advanced age of 48 I have spent tens of thousands of dollars in mail order and Internet purchases. Not one time ever, did I get burned! #Yes there have been problems, but I have always been able to make an adult reasoned request, of whatever company screwed up, and always came to an equitable agreement. Many times to my benifit.

73
KD5NCO

[W5KRM]

I have to agree with Glen's post/response. Here is my 2 cents worth also:
I have had bad deals with Burghardt, R&amp;L, Memphis, Associated Radio. The only one that I haven't over th years has been Ross Distributing and AES. However, let's keep this in perspective. If I continually buy from dealers, let's say monthly, I will encounter something. I will run into someone that ticks me off, someone that has a bad day and takes it out on me, the customer. It happens. People are human and people get moody sometimes.

Bottom line: Try to work it out with the &quot;dealer&quot; and if they perform actual fraudulent business practices, then you have a legitimate gripe to post. If there is a site for posting user feedback on dealers as there are on equipment, I would do it there. Would make more sense and it would be more appropriate.

Matt had a bad experience with Heil, and understandably so. He tried to resolve the issue not once, but multiple times and moved on. I think that is more appropriate vs. labeling Heil as &quot;dishonest&quot;. Bad customer service should be noted.

I will try to keep dealing with some of the dealers and others I avoid for personal reasons.

GL