Jammers and Idiots

[w9ass]

In the wide world of 2 meters (all 4mhz of it), a lot of activity takes place in cities all around the globe. New hams like myself yap on repeaters and have a good time with a constantly growing crowd. The unwritten code of ethics and camaraderie flourishes, and people usually treat each other with the utmost dignity and respect. However, the respect issue is challenged when the "jammer" or loudmouth comes out. Most of the time he is unlicensed, and uses his radio unlawfully to cause alarming amounts of grief. Other times it turns out that he or she may be licensed and uses his gear to jam people he doesn't like....

The point of the thread: How do you deal with someone like this?

I like to take part in the roundtable discussions of the 146.76 repeater quite often in the evening because it is a great way to unwind. The hams there are pretty cool, and there always is an interesting topic going around. Right during the middle of a good QSO, the ruckus begins. Someone tries dialing up the autopatch without ID'ing, snide remarks are thrown between breaks, and the endless dead-keying resurfaces, sometimes causing the repeater to time out. We can only ignore this person so much, and there is always the possibility they will follow us to another machine.

My gut instinct tells me to always ignore the sucker because it takes a greater man to reject the petty BS than to confront him and rip his lungs out. This is what they tell us in Anger Management class, anyway http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I don't think anyone has the time or the effort to track this person down, and the more we acknowledge him, the more he comes on. However, the more we ignore him, he seems to attack just as relentlessly because it frustrates the general group.

Ham radio is supposed to be civilized. I will not accept the concept that this behavior is absent on HF and upgrading is only way to avoid it. 75 meters and 20 meters are filled to the brim with trash as well. Bottom line #2: We have to find a way to keep things civil! Just a nagging thought from the 'DGM....

73,

KC9DGM
Downers Grove Mobile
Mope Extraordinaire
Proud owner of a brain and a Yaesu

[w3sy]

Matt (KC9DGM),

Since Hiram Percy Maxim had his Novice ticket, the rule regarding jammers, unidentified imbeciles, and other nitwits has always been totally ignore them. Totally. 100%. Like they are not even there. Without acknowledgement and without an audience, these lowlifes quickly lose interest.

MY solution, in addition to the above, is to upgrade so that you have all of HF (plus 2 meters, if you want) to choose from. 2 meters has its place, and it's useful in some ways, but it's just a handful of brain cells north of CB, if you get my drift.

HF Fever. CATCH IT!

Out.

[WA2ZDY]

KC9DGM says: "Most of the time he is unlicensed, and uses his radio unlawfully to cause alarming amounts of grief. Other times it turns out that he or she may be licensed and uses his gear to jam people he doesn't like...."

Sadly I dare say most of these knuckleheads ARE licensed. That's how it's usually turned out in the cases I've been involved in tracking down. And I was heavily involved in doing just that with the 147.36 MAARC repeater in Manhatten NY City in the late 70s and early 80s. Yes, most of the numbskulls ARE hams. That makes it REALLY sad, doesn't it?

As for not having the time to track them down, that's a big problem. Sometimes tracking them down is the only solution. FCC won't track them down, but Riley will take action if you supply him with enough info. And tracking signals is good fun too. That's why we foxhunt. It's also very useful, not just for jamming, but for legitimately stuck PTT buttons, the day the mayor calls ARES for help with an aircraft, ELT, etc. MAKE the time to find this nitwits. Trust me when I tell you, if they know there are competent folks with a club who WILL find them, they'll go elsewhere. The thing is to make sure your DFing party knows not to be knocking on doors. That's just plain silly.


I'll tell you how I handled the last case of malicious interference I was involved with, about a year ago. In this case, it was a local repeater and the interference was happening under a repeating set of circumstances (it was aimed mostly at one particular individual.)

The jammer made it easier for us by making some mistakes. We also profiled his transmitter, and when he used the repeater on the up and up, he was busted right there. But we went further. The usual victim of the abuse was on the machine one day when I was in the area of the suspected jammer. Sure enough, sitting in front of his house with no antenna on my rig, he was rather strong during his malicious transmissions. Can you say "oops?"

The trustee of the repeater was so notified and he sent an email to the suspected jammer, simply telling him there was a problem and hoping he wasn't involved. The jamming stopped and as far as I know, never used that repeater again. Problem solved (or at least became someone else's headache.)

One option that might be considered, though this has to be done carefully, is to DF your jammer, be absolutely sure you've got the right place (you see antennas, he's a ham, in the callbook, etc) then call him on the air between his malicious transmissions. THAT's a wakeup call and a half! I've also heard but never done, the DF team announce the location where they've found the malicious transmissions. If you decide to do that, be sure to be out of sight before doing it; ie: don't be sitting there when the .357 gets stuck out the window!

Hopefully some of these ideas may be of use to you. But letting it go because nobody can muster the time and/or effort to find the guy is just telling him to carry on. Go after him forthwith and he will go away, one way or another.

Good luck.

[KC8QMU]

Another idea........ since this is FM, why not try to take advantage of the capture effect? Have everybody up their power to 50 to ? watts, if possible, and see if that helps "blanket" him in on the input of the repeater. This may or my not work, depending upon the equipment the jammer is running vs. the legitimate users', distance of stations away from the machine, etc. Just carry on your normal routine, and as said before, ignore him and don't give him an audience. That's exactly what he wants you to do. Even if you can't blanket him, make sure that someone is talking while he is, so that when he unkeys he hears them and not the courtesy tone of the machine. That helps to discourage sometimes too, as sometimes you may be able to trick them into thinking they are being covered up when maybe they're not. Good luck, and don't let these imbeciles ruin your fun! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Turning the tables on the 'idjits' posting reminded me of a VERY good example of this that happened 'long long ago in a galaxy far far away' - which is to say back in the EARLY 80's! :-)

It has a (thankfully) happy ending.

The 2M boom was well underway. Our local MD rptrs (That's pronounced "Rahpeetah's" for a buddy of mine ;-) were beset by a jammer.

As one who enjoys (and gets some personal pleasure) out of doing foxhunting and then working to see just desserts heaped upon the perpetrator, I thoroughly enjoy bringing a great deal of mental stress and frustration on the jammer. (Psyops are usually a MUCH BETTER form of corrective actoin than a citation or a fine, in many cases)

Onto the case..

We had a young (at least he sounded under 21) guy on one of our local Baltimore, MD 2M repeaters. He liked to key up with no audio and capture the system and/or time out the machine. He liked to giggle, make silly noises, and generally become a giant PITA. (Nothing crude, obscene, or dirty, just irritiating.)

Well, After a couple of days of this foolishness we decided to go see if we could find out who it was. A group of 3 or 4 of us chatted on the phone. We knew the pattern - usually in the evenings between 6pm and 11pm. Usually only after a few of the older aged folks would get on the air for a roundtable.

We listened direct and were able to get bearings on him. We hopped in the mobiles ("Mohbyles" for my buddy ;-) and got it down to a couple block area. There was NO Internet access we we had no easy access to license records.

Finally we narrowed it down to a block. No antennas were visible and no ham tags on cars. Checked with the local clubs and none had anyone listed as living on that block. (Found out later he was newly licensed and had not joined any clubs)

Took the zip code and asked someone in the FCC to do a search by ZIP code for licenses issued between xx and yy dates. This they did and came up with 1 name. We zero'd in on the address and had one of the guys park about 1/2 block away. No antenna, SQUELCH up full. Sure enough.. that night.. up came the group.. up came the guy. Our local ham's limiter meter pegged.

The guy stopped his QRM. The signal went away. Our guy outside the house waited. He grabbed his 1W HT, keyed the PTT and on the repeater OUTPUT transmitted The following. He said 'Hello N3---. Just wanted to let you know that BIG BROTHER IS LISTENING... and, by the way sure do like the nice curtains your parents put on the bay window you have at your house! NOW CUT IT OUT AND BEHAVE OR THE NEXT TIME... FCC's COMING TO GET YOU!"

Transmission finished. The guy then saw someone appear at a window on the 2nd floor. He saw a kid appear, open the window, lean out and look up and down the street.

My buddy (remember, this is the 80's and things were a LOT less dangerous back then!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif got out of the car, turned to face the person and waved. He also said, "NICE SIGNAL! HAVE A NICE NIGHT! SEE YOU LATER!" He pointed and waved again and got in and left.

FOR SOME REASON... THE QRM NEVER NEVER REAPPEARED AGAIN! AMAZING!!

The couple of us who know about it STILL chuckle over the reaction of the kid. We always wondered.. did he lose a lot of liquid weight when he KNEW he'd been caught OR did he suddenly have to go do a load of laundry?

POSTSCRIPT (and the reason he is NOT identified)

A year later he joined a local Club. He had upgraded and changed his call. He had matured and became an active, productive member of our group (and STILL is to the best of my knowlege) I know he knows the one guy who saw him and talked to him and I was told that he did, later, come up to the guy who saw him and apologize for being a jammer.

73
Chuck K3FT

[W1IRS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 07 2003,11:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">MY solution, in addition to the above, is to upgrade so that you have all of HF (plus 2 meters, if you want) to choose from. 2 meters has its place, and it's useful in some ways, but it's just a handful of brain cells north of CB, if you get my drift.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Steve, The 2-meter band has more than just a &quot;place&quot; and is certainly more than just &quot;useful in some ways&quot; to many people including, but certainly not limited to, EME operators, satellite operators and many emergency communication nets. #

Unless it is somehow your original intent to suggest that people who use the Citizen's Band frequencies are quite intelligent, I would certainly appreciate it if you would, from now on, refrain from suggesting that there is no intelligence to be found on 144 MHz and up.

Or it may be that perhaps you really do think that individuals like Kenneth D Bowersox KD5JBP, Don Pettit KD5MDT or Ed Lu KC5WKJ are a few bricks shy of a full load. I for one do not. #Here is a fine set of Ham Operators who do not operate on HF at all.

As another poster has said, HF has its fair share of inconsiderate jammers, hacks and lids as well, no matter how many times you may proclaim upgrading a cure all.

Lee

[k3sam]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However, the respect issue is challenged when the &quot;jammer&quot; or loudmouth comes out. Most of the time he is unlicensed, and uses his radio unlawfully to cause alarming amounts of grief.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

ZDY had it correctly, most of the jammers and those with no IQ's what-so-ever <span style='color:red'>are</span> licensed. #In fact, most have been hams for years and usually hold higher class licenses.

What do I do when I stumble across one of these trolls ? #I use my <span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>O</span>fficial <span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>F</span>requency <span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>F</span>lattener ( <span style='color:blue'>OFF</span> ) Button ! #Works every time.

-Sam

[W1IRS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k3sam @ June 07 2003,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ZDY had it correctly, most of the jammers and those with no IQ's what-so-ever <span style='color:red'>are</span> licensed. #In fact, most have been hams for years and usually hold higher class licenses.
-Sam[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

As a matter of fact and just to combine two topics, #the N6SAP repeater owner has several very skilled DF/Foxhunt teams that are quite active and successful in tracking down the abusers of said repeater. #Many of the jammers turn out to be local General or Extra class Hi Hi OM operators from nearby repeaters trying to get it shut off.

Lee

[n6hle]

I've never really heard too much of a jamming problem in my few months as a ham. However when I do I look at it this way... At least these morons are using radios in immature ways, rather than using vehicles or, worse yet, guns in immature ways. It's all about perpective... Are you really in serious danger by a jammer? Sure it's annoying as all hell, but it's not exactly something that's going to kill you.

Another thing to remember is anytime there are rules, there's somebody that gets off on breaking them. No question about it. Right or wrong that's the way it is. Something we have to live with. In amateur radio as well as in society in general.

My two cents. One cent optomistic, one cent pesimistic.

73

Harry - KG6PTD

[KA8NCR]

Step 1: Go about your business and ignore them.

Step 2: Get a couple amateurs with doppler direction finding equipment.

Step 3: Hunt them down

Step 4: File a complaint with the FCC. They are *very* responsive when you tell them who it is and how you found them along with dates and times of the chronic abuse.

The only time step 1 is bypasses is to (very) surrepticiously get the offenders to transmit a bit longer to allow for your DF team to home-in for the kill. You can't do this too much or the idiot will wise up to your game and disappear.

This method worked wonders when we had a moron on our repeater.

[N0KLT]

Around Lincoln, Ne we don't have much problem with unlicensed ops on the repeaters, all of our problem children have tickets. One method of dealing with the problem if you cannot DF the party, is to get on the telephone with the party you are conversing with on the repeater or on simplex and have a simultaneous conversation on the air and on the phone with that person. Of course that works only if you are talking to only one person on the repeater or simplex unless you have conference calling on your phone and want to go thru all the hassle of setting it up. This also works on SSB for whatever band you are operating also. It can really be funny to watch the input signals get stronger and stronger as the jammer can't figure out why he can't get in between the 2 of you. Once in a great while you actually get the extreme pleasure of watching an on the air smoke test as someone keys a 2M brick or whatever for too long or drives it too hard. Transistor ones leave the air abruptly but the rare tube ones that get abused too much leave very slowly and just sort of wind down instead of shutting off. But whatever your method of dealing with the jammer(s), the best thing to do is ignore them on the air and never ever confront them in person.

The main idea of ham radio is to have fun and to help people while enjoying yourself. Don't let some room temperature IQ types ruin the fun for you. 'Taint worth it.

73

Gary NØKLT

[kd5icr]

Jammers in my area are few and far in between.Yes we have them, but to say they are like the folks that use CB is just an easy cop out. What I am saying is get over your problem with CB'ers, live and let live do you that gripe about CB have nothing better to do? As for jammers just dont talk back or anything thay will leave.And as posted earlier DF/Fox hunts work well I have seen it work here when the 145.17 repeter in lewisville Tx was hit.

73 KD5ICR
Bill

[W1RFI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MattBeer @ June 07 2003,00:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By the way, it IS true that this behavior does NOT happen on CW. #Whether you want to accept the concept or not, it is true.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sure it does, just not as often. I have heard deliberate jamming of DX stations with big pileups, strings of dits sent on top of another station in a way that is clearly not an accident and &quot;FU&quot; repeated repeatedly on top of another station.

Besides, isn't every carrier thrown on top of a QSO or a net a CW signal? :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

[ae4fa]

Sure, it happens occasionally on CW. Nice thing is, these guys are so dumb, they couldn't zero-beat a signal to save their lives. Withe the appropriate filter set up, you can eliminate them entirely!

[k3sam]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Withe the appropriate filter set up, you can eliminate them entirely! [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Bob, that would only apply if their frequency was different than yours. #If it were the same and you used your filtering <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>( DSP I would imagine )</span>, you would also eliminate the station you want to hear. #Right ?

&lt; unless it was modulated tone, and that is only allowed above 100 Mhz &gt;


-Sam

[ae4fa]

If I'm zero beat with the station I'm working, and the QRM ain't zero beat with us, a combination of DSP, 250Hz lattice filter and twin passband tuning solves the problem most of the time. Now, if the station I'm working is real weak . . .

But like I said, jammers are too stupid to know how to zero beat.

[n3uhd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1IRS @ June 06 2003,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 07 2003,11:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">MY solution, in addition to the above, is to upgrade so that you have all of HF (plus 2 meters, if you want) to choose from. 2 meters has its place, and it's useful in some ways, but it's just a handful of brain cells north of CB, if you get my drift.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Steve, The 2-meter band has more than just a &quot;place&quot; and is certainly more than just &quot;useful in some ways&quot; to many people including, but certainly not limited to, EME operators, satellite operators and many emergency communication nets. #

Unless it is somehow your original intent to suggest that people who use the Citizen's Band frequencies are quite intelligent, I would certainly appreciate it if you would, from now on, refrain from suggesting that there is no intelligence to be found on 144 MHz and up.

Or it may be that perhaps you really do think that individuals like Kenneth D Bowersox KD5JBP, Don Pettit KD5MDT or Ed Lu KC5WKJ are a few bricks shy of a full load. I for one do not. #Here is a fine set of Ham Operators who do not operate on HF at all.

As another poster has said, HF has its fair share of inconsiderate jammers, hacks and lids as well, no matter how many times you may proclaim upgrading a cure all.

Lee[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought this statement was an insult to folks that use and enjoy 2M.
A hobby is what you want it to be. What ever freq bands you wish to use, jammers are to be ignored, as everyone has stated.
Good day.

[KB1GYQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0KLT @ June 07 2003,21:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... get on the telephone with the party you are conversing with on the repeater or on simplex and have a simultaneous conversation on the air and on the phone with that person. ... funny to watch the input signals get stronger and stronger as the jammer can't figure out why he can't get in between the 2 of you. Once in a great while you actually get the extreme pleasure of watching an on the air smoke test as someone keys a 2M brick or whatever for too long or drives it too hard.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now that sounds like fun!

[kc2ink]

I found the best way to deal with those causing intentional interference is to ignore them. They do go away. If you do ask them politly to stop, they usally keep right on going. Last year in my area during a public safety event in October, we had a guy stepping over us with sly remarks. Everyone involved in the event ignored him and in about 5 minutes or so, he went away. Trying to trianglate the location could be difficult considering all the mobile units out there these days. My advise, ignore the idiot.