Ohio House Bill to Ban Amateur Radio!

[W8KPH]

The following is a quote from the website of our Columbus, Ohio commercial radio station, WTVN, 610AM ~
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bill says don't eat, don't phone, don't do your face..DRIVE!
State Representative Catherine Barrett(D) of Cincinnati is sponsoring a bill (HB210) that prohibits any person from engaging in any activity that impairs the ability to fully control the vehicle. That would include cellphones, eating, applying makeup..even popping a CD into the stereo if it can be determined that your attention drifting to it caused an accident. The bill would provide for additional penalties for engaging in those types of activities. Barrett says it also requires the State Highway Patrol to compile monthly data and statistics on motor vehicle accidents in which mobile telephone use was a material factor. She expects the Patrol to support it, as well as the cellular phone industry since in this bill they're not singled out as a lone distraction. She says the bill derives from some of the things she's seen fellow motorists doing at the wheel.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Here is the full text of HB210 ~
( HB210 ) (http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=125_HB_210)

Please pay attention to section 4511.204(B)(1) as it states &quot;any activity&quot; which I feel may include Amateur Radio use. Don't think for a moment that just because Amateur Radio isn't banned outright in the text of the proposed Bill, that it won't still be an offense.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(1) Engaging in any activity that impairs the ability of the person to control fully the vehicle, trolley, or streetcar;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Also, those who use Citizens Band are Excluded from this Bill. Reference Section 4511.204.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> ( C ) Division (B)(1) of this section shall not be construed as prohibiting a person from operating a citizens band radio while operating a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, or streetcar.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Notice what's missing from this section?

I strongly encourage all Hams, not just in Ohio, BUT ALL Hams to write to your SM, the FCC, ARRL to voice your opinion.
I believe it's an infringement on our Rights, but where we'll have to 'Hit' them is with how we provide a service to the public as well. Think of Homeland Security, ARES/RACES and what about the recently enacted &quot;Amber Alert&quot; program. How are we to be effective communicators if we can't use the radio while mobile?

Us Ohio Hams had better get on a letter writing campaign to nip this one in the bud.
For everyone's sake, in all States, get in touch with your Representitive and make your voice heard!

73
Kevin P Halloran
W8KPH
Kenton, Ohio

[k3sam]

Kevin,

This has been around for many years, and each time they add a service, amateur radio is always excluded. #However you have a VERY valid point. #It seems that more and more, amateur radio is being attacked and for no reason.

It is about time we have a bill written up exclusively for the Amateur Community, showing all of our <span style='color:blue'>rights</span> instead of being included in other bills showing our exemption. #Don't we now have representatives in the House and Senate that are licensed hams ? #Let's put 'em to work !

-Sam

[kf4pth]

I must speak against the bill, but not because the bill fails to enumerate amateur radio in the exclusions.

I read the text of the entire Bill. #I also did a Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=Kim+and+Kathy+Seager) on &quot;Kim and Kathy Seager&quot;, the two girls for whom the bill is named.

First, let me offer my condolences to the family. #I can't imagine what they might be going through. #But as I say a prayer for their daughters, I feel compelled to agree with Ohio's Speaker of the House.

There are already laws on the books in most (if not all) states that cover reckless driving, vehicular homicide, vehicular manslaughter (see Ohio Revised Code 2903.06). For the state to pass legislation to outlaw the use of a cell phone, etc. would be, in my most humble opinion, a situation of law making based upon emotion rather than reasoning.

Please let me explain my thinking by using the very example of this tragedy. #The driver of the car that hit, and killed, the two girls was on a cell phone. #His actions, to me, being negligent, are clear evidence to support charges of vehicular homicide.

If this interpretation holds up, and I'm not an attorney, why then would a bill regarding cell phone use in a car be needed? #If one is driving and on the phone and, through this action, becomes distracted and kills someone, I hear the piper playing and this guilty someone would need to pay.

If the legislators in Ohio feel it necessary to create this law, I would implore them to consider enumerating amateur radio as well as the citizen's band. #I believe they are not intentionally omitting ham radio, rather they see CB and amateur radio as one in the same. #Legally that would not hold up in court.

My $0.02, YMMV.

[WB2GOF]

Ahh..today's society. We tend to overlegislate. Whereas we have many many existing laws on the books to cover &quot;reckless driving,&quot; politicians, in search of their 15 minute spotlight of fame, propose bills to ban this that or the the other thing to gain media access. It's no longer about legislating what the people want, it's what the elected official/public feeds off of. Useless laws to overcrowd our already jam-packed legal system. This bill is as unnecessary as most others Congress manages to pass through it's Byzantine labrinth of rules and codes. Viva la Revolucion, mis amigos!!

[w3sy]

Oh, for a minute, I thought you said the bill would ban ham radio.

For me, ham radio is the on-air activity I do down in my basement shack. Yes, this would cause a problem for those whose shacks are in their shirt pockets or under the dash of the car.

One more good reason to upgrade, eh?

Out.

[N0FFA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ June 06 2003,08:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ahh..today's society. #We tend to overlegislate. #Whereas we have many many existing laws on the books to cover &quot;reckless driving,&quot; politicians, in search of their 15 minute spotlight of fame, propose bills to ban this that or the the other thing to gain media access. #It's no longer about legislating what the people want, it's what the elected official/public feeds off of. #Useless laws to overcrowd our already jam-packed legal system. #This bill is as unnecessary as most others Congress manages to pass through it's Byzantine labrinth of rules and codes. #Viva la Revolucion, mis amigos!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What if a driver causing an accident was sitting up straight, eyes predominantly forward - scanning side to side, both hands on the wheel (10 o'clock - 2 o'clock), seat belt firmly fastened but (as my grandma used to put it) with their finger up their @$$ and their mind in Georgia? Gosh, with no CD, cell phone, make-up mirror, etc. involved, who/what shall we blame? Perhaps we should scream to outlaw road signs! Looking out for those pesky one way signs can be so distracting!

It is an issue of individual responsibility, not what some politician playing to a bunch of dim-wit constituents should or should not legislate. Please Mr. Government man, save me from myself! Sheesh, it's just like saying guns cause crime.

Stupidity cannot be legislated out of the human condition.

[KC9ECI]

Having been involved with the fire and rescue service for 10 years now, I can say that I've been to more cell phone related MVA's than those caused by amateur radio...in fact, I've been to none that an amater radio played a part in.

Note to W3SY: I thought the only reason to upgrade was so I could look down my nose at those with a lesser class ticket and make snide comments.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif What the cell phone could do ( if they really wanted to ) is to ....when they sell a phone...GIVE the customer a &quot;hand free kit &quot; ( not sell it to them )...while the customer is there... show them how to use and operate the &quot;hands free kits &quot;, then give it to the customer to take with them...the loss in money would be marginal compared to the lives saved...also... when a customer comes in for repair or has questions about their unit, GIVE them the appropiate &quot;hands free kit &quot; to use with their particuler cell phone ...lots of folks dont know HOW TO USE the &quot; hands free kits &quot; and think they are no good for any thing but some thing extra to SELL the customer.... I know, the employees at the stores are gonna gripe and complain about having to EXPLAIN how to operate and use the &quot;hands free kits &quot;... but if you dont like the job or cant handle it... let some one else do it ( plenty of unemployed folks out there that would LOVE to have your job )....( over 400,000 job less folks in the USA as of this past week )

[n0xas]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC9ECI @ June 06 2003,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Note to W3SY: #I thought the only reason to upgrade was so I could look down my nose at those with a lesser class ticket and make snide comments.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nah, it's so we don't have to listen to all that whining on the repeaters all the time. #

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Kidding -- I'm KIDDING already!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Lighten up, guys...

73,
Dale - N0XAS

PS - On topic: #I'd be happy if anyone ever GOT ticketed for reading, doing makeup or especially yakking on the blasted phone while supposedly &quot;driving&quot;. #If the cops would be allowed to enforce the laws we already have (negligent driving, etc) we'd all be better off without needing any new ones.

[N0WVA]

This is a stupid idea. Life is full of risks and idiots, I dont need laws to protect me from them. Look at how many cars are on the road at once nowdays. No law is going to eliminate the chance of an accident. Sometimes I use a cellphone while driving, and its always when the road is wide open, and I have my wife dial the number for me. This is just more B.S. to control you and me. Sorry thing is, most of the pansy gutless public will let it slide right on thru without saying a word. But guess what. Its my car, its my phone. I dont care what laws are made, Ill use my cell or radio anyway. They can shove this law, just like they can shove thier seatbelt laws. This is America, I dont want everyone to suffer and have thier rights reduced just because a few whiny crybabies get scared over the slightest little chance of an accident. Get real, live with it. We all have to die sometime, anyway. And wear your seatbelts, your state government cares about you!(not)

[N7VQM]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W8KPH @ June 06 2003,06:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I believe it's an infringement on our Rights[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Is using amateur radio frequencies, in a car or not, really right? #Or is it instead a privilege? #As I recall, it's a privilege bestowed upon us by the FCC and we as amateur radio operators have a responsibilty to operate in a safe manner.

A phase I heard so often in the USMC was, &quot;It only takes one to screw it up for the rest of you.&quot;

That's what I think these laws are all about. #Driving is a privilege. #Talking on a cell phone is a privilege. #Get enough people screwing it up and we loose a privilege.

With that written, I don't believe we need laws against &quot;distracted driving.&quot; #What we need is better education and fewer self-absorbed people, neither of which are likely to happen. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[kd5icr]

The &quot;leaders&quot; here in Texas have a Bill like that here. But I dont think it stands a snow ball chanch in hell of passing.Now I agree that cell phones and the like can and maybe do play a part in MVA's but all you have to do is look to the truck drivers that use CB as well as Ham radio and see that most dont have a problem at all.
So for the fella in Ohio,I would say get on the repeters in your area and get busy that way as well as sending letters. QRZ is nice but you should be doing something on the home front.
73
KD5ICR (aka) Bill

[kc8uam]

&quot;They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.&quot; # #- Ben Franklin, ~1784

&quot;What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very long.&quot; -- Thomas Sowell

[N0FFA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7VQM @ June 06 2003,19:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's what I think these laws are all about. #Driving is a privilege. #Talking on a cell phone is a privilege. #Get enough people screwing it up and we loose a privilege.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You view talking on a cell phone as a privilege?

Hmmmmmm, I'm looking that one up in Beloved Leader's Little Red Book. Yup, you're right, here it is!

Well, down here in Fox Hollow we eat red meat, own guns and think the privilege lies in being a politician supporting his/her/itself off of $$ I earned and remit to the government. Using a cell phone is a private contractual arrangement between the cell phone user and service provider, NOT a privilege granted by Beloved Leader.

Now, how one goes about using said cell phone is another matter. If I walk into the local Quik Stop and commence beating Roger Casey over the head until unconscious, then walk out the door with a free 12-pack and a can of Copenhagen, I'll admit to placing some privileges in jeopardy. In that instance would my actions be the cell phone or the service providers fault? No! That would be a stupid, irresponsible and criminal act caused by none other than myself and if I'm want to act in such a manner, a line or two of legislation outlining cell phone privileges probably won't stop me.

My favorite Franklin quote has been previously covered so I'll close with this:

&quot;Peolpe tend to get the politicians and the fishing tackle they deserve.&quot; JOHN GIERACH

[KG4RUL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w3sy @ June 06 2003,08:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh, for a minute, I thought you said the bill would ban ham radio.

For me, ham radio is the on-air activity I do down in my basement shack. Yes, this would cause a problem for those whose shacks are in their shirt pockets or under the dash of the car.

One more good reason to upgrade, eh?

Out.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am really curious. Upgrade to What?

[wb6bcn]

Lets get to basics: Excluding CBers: Many people have no idea there is a distinction between a ham and a cber, therefore, a ham and a cber are taken to be one and the same.

As for the cellphone, many states have phrobitions on using a cellphone while driving, unless they have hands free options in use. With a ham, cb, or police radio you usually have both hands on the wheel unless talking. with a cellphone you have one hand on the phone 100% of the time it is being used. You are usually straining to hear the conversation over road noise, further adding to distraction on your primary responsibility, driving.

[N7VQM]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0OXQ @ June 07 2003,07:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You view talking on a cell phone as a privilege?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Absolutely. #It's a privilege I pay for. #If I screw it up by not paying the bill, it's gone. #I didn't just get cellular service by virture of being a US citizen or veteran or anything else.

Cingular was in no way obligated to give me cellular telephone service. #And, by looking at the contract, they are in no way obligated to continue to give me service (unless you count marketing pressure) even though I always pay my bill on time. #I don't have to break the law or the contract to loose my cell phone service. #Therefore, my cell phone isn't one of my rights.

Before you start calling people communist, think about it then don't. #Especially when addressing a veteran of the Armed Forces. #The only living people in this country who have paid for thier freedoms and rights (and everyone elses) are the veterans.

BTW, you don't live too far from my Dad. He lives in a town southwest of Jeff called Russelville. He says he gets a workout when he calls me on his cell phone because he has to constantly walk around his yard to get a signal.

[w3sy]

Tom, KC9ECI sez:

&quot;Note to W3SY: #I thought the only reason to upgrade was so I could look down my nose at those with a lesser class ticket and make snide comments.&quot;

Tom, Tom, Tom.... as XAS said, lighten up... chill out... have a beer. Nobody's looking down or up (yuck) anyone's nose. Here's the deal -- everybody starts somewhere. These days, new hams start out as Techs. That's how the FCC structured things. As a newbie, boom, you're a VHF operator. But as you learn more about radio and hamming stuff, you'll upgrade, right? Doesn't have to be today or tomorrow... but you'll get it done. And people like me will be there to help you.

All it takes is the desire to get it done.

If there is anything about hamming today that I find depressing, it's that there are so many who never explore hamming beyond good old faithful 2 meter repeaters. They go along thinking that's all there is. And that's sad. So excuse me if I occasionally tweak the &quot;shack in the shirt pocket&quot; crowd. It's my way of saying &quot;upgrading is easy and fun, and we'll help -- if you want to.&quot;

Sorry you took it personally.

But back to the topic -- if all you have is a mobile rig, and the GUBMINT finds a way to take the mic out of your hands, what are ya gonna do? What's that leave? Yeah, that would be a problem. My solution of upgrading and setting up a home shack is not as outrageous as some might think.

Knowmsayin'?

Out.

[KD7KOY]

Well..you should'nt be talking if your driving..
I don't even have a radio in the car..have enough of a job watching the spastic drivers.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I have a friend who was rear ended at a stop sign by a person talking on a cellphone. Really mess her up..
Concentrate on the road..I don't want to get hit by some ham looking for a QSL card.. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[N0FFA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7VQM @ June 07 2003,10:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0OXQ @ June 07 2003,07:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You view talking on a cell phone as a privilege?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Absolutely. #It's a privilege I pay for. #If I screw it up by not paying the bill, it's gone. #I didn't just get cellular service by virture of being a US citizen or veteran or anything else.

Cingular was in no way obligated to give me cellular telephone service. #And, by looking at the contract, they are in no way obligated to continue to give me service (unless you count marketing pressure) even though I always pay my bill on time. #I don't have to break the law or the contract to loose my cell phone service. #Therefore, my cell phone isn't one of my rights.

Before you start calling people communist, think about it then don't. #Especially when addressing a veteran of the Armed Forces. #The only living people in this country who have paid for thier freedoms and rights (and everyone elses) are the veterans.

BTW, you don't live too far from my Dad. #He lives in a town southwest of Jeff called Russelville. #He says he gets a workout when he calls me on his cell phone because he has to constantly walk around his yard to get a signal.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
privilege, n. 1.a. A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. 2. The principle of granting and maintaining a special right or immunity: a society based on privilege.

The FCC grants you the privilege to emit radio waves of a defined spectra due to your demonstration of the minimum required knowledge and ability to belong to a class of individuals, i.e. amatuer radio operators, acting as a body to further and protect the interests of all members of that body. (This is the obligatory on-topic section of this post. Feel free to ignore all after)

No, a cell phone is not a right, nor did I express or infer that it is. What I did evince: It is not a privilege. It is a commodity. One could argue service as a privilege using your example. Say your bill is due the 1st of the month and Cingular does not receive payment by that day. If instead of turning off your service, they allow a non-contractual buffer of a few days to receive your payment, that is a privilege.

A local cell phone company provides service to our volunteer fire department free of charge. We have no right to demand free service. That is a privilege. They have granted us immunity from their normal charges based on the fact that we provide a public service and their desire to have their corporation viewed in a favorable light by members of the community.

As to calling anyone a communist, I don't recall doing so and you shouldn't read that much into a comment about Beloved Leader. The laws, regulations and requirements of any and all segments of the government do not exist on their own. They are an extension of the 'will of the people', a subject on which a never ending debate could easily be had. You made the statement: &quot;Get enough people screwing it up and we loose a privilege&quot;. In our society, if a large enough number of people are screwing something up it is; a. a lack of education (state controlled) or b. a sign that the 'people' are being required to serve the government, not the government serving the people. The only difference between viewing what services and products you can freely choose to use or ignore as privileges and the burdens a self serving and self perpetuating government (i.e. Marxist-Leninist, fascist or just plain corrupt) may place on you is choice, you can make your own, comrade whats-his-name has it made for him.

As to: &quot;The only living people in this country who have paid for thier freedoms and rights (and everyone elses) are the veterans.&quot;, that is such a shallow and transparent statement I'll assume you made it out of frustration due to believing I called you a communist. There's more than a few civil rights pioneers who would differ in opinion. Parties to actions overtuning draconian legal principles comes to mind as well as numerous others who have stood for the principals of freedom at a personal cost and have never spent a day in the military.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, that's cool. Freedom of expression and the assertion of one's uniqueness is what makes this country great.

Peace and 73
Dave, KCØOXQ

BTW, been to Russelville. Say hey to Dad fer me.

[N0WVA]

I dont like the word privledge, it sounds too much like our government playing the role of God and granting the things that any human being should be able to do. Its my RIGHT to drive if I pass the tests. Its my RIGHT to own a gun if I do not plan to hurt anyone with it. It is my RIGHT to be a ham if I operate reasonably. It is my RIGHT to exist, even though there are those who would like you to believe that it is a privledge. Freedom is not a priveledge that can be taken away at the drop of a hat.

[N0FFA]

&quot;There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws..... But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt.&quot;

Ayn Rand, 1957

[kc2ink]

I think the legislators should be careful with the wording. If they write into the bill &quot;any activity&quot; and that means we ham radio operators cann't use our mobile rigs, then public safety personnel (fire dept, EMS, and Police) also can not use their radios while driving.
Here in NY state, (land of high taxes) there is a cell phone law on the books. It however excludes mobile radio from the ban, including amateur radio. Now as a law, I think it is a joke. I have witnessed many a police officer driving and talking on the cell phone. Hmm. Besides, the biggest distraction to driving is the 2 kids in the back seat fighting over who is looking at who. Just my opinion

[kf4pth]

Maybe the only way to protect society is to ban that which acts to destroy society? #Logically then, since society itself is the cause of society's destruction, would it not be assertable that society should be outlawed.

Laugh not, for I submit that this is the crux of the insanity spewing forth from the minds of some elected officials.

But, it you outlaw society, do you not also destroy it (which is counter to your entire rationale for the law???)

AAArrrggghhhh, I'm having a metaphysical breakdown. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif