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KB1SAY
05-05-2010, 11:31 PM
What exactly are the rules when having guests in the shack?
Would this be third party traffic when letting a guest talk to other hams?
I wanna know what rules there are when you (the control operator) allow a guest to get on the air. are they limited contries with the third party agreement? and are they allowed to call CQ?

Thanks, ben;KB1SAY

KB3TKP
05-05-2010, 11:36 PM
The way I read it is that the 3rd party can operate on the same band's as YOUR license allow's as you are the control operator.

AC0H
05-06-2010, 12:12 AM
There's a difference between non-licensed folks operating your station and third party agreements.

You can allow un-licensed folks to operate you station, within your license class privileges, as long as you are present as control operator. You are responsible for making sure the individual using your station sticks to the rules.

If your a general class licensee you can invite a tech over to work a little HF. You have to be there, they have to sign with your call and stick to the general class portions of the bands.

If you have an extra class licensee over they can operate in the extra class portions but they have to append their call to yours. On CW I could operate your general class station in the extra portions by signing KB1SAY/AC0H, or stay in the general portions and use just your call.

These rules apply to regular operating as well as field day.

http://www.arrl.org/regulatory-faqs

Remember you are responsible for what goes out over the air from your station.

Third party agreements are defined here.

http://www.arrl.org/third-party-operating-agreements

K0RGR
05-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Yes, the unlicensed persons are 'third parties' and are subject to the restrictions on 3rd party traffic. Let them talk to any Americans they wish, but be careful about DX!

Unlicensed persons are commonly found on the air at Field Day under the supervision of another operator at the GOTA tent. They are also found on Kid's Day and Boy Scouts Jamboree on the Air.

NI7I
05-06-2010, 12:34 AM
My interpretatioon is a little different. Any person visitting your station may operate your station, using your call, and under your supervision, with the privlidges you hold. They may speak to anybody that you could speak to. Third party traffic is just that. It is traffic you are passing to another ham on behalf of a "hird party". Has nothing to do with who is operating your station with you was control operator and supervising the other persons activity at your station. The visitor need not have a license.

Regards
Lee
NI7I

KC8AHN
05-06-2010, 12:46 AM
Section 97.115 of the Commission's Rules, 47 C.F.R. §97.115, authorizes an amateur station regulated by the FCC to transmit a message from its control operator (first party) to another amateur station control operator (second party) on behalf of another person (third party).

No amateur station, however, shall transmit messages for a third party to any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government whose administration has not made arrangements with the United States to allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting international communications on behalf of third parties.

The following countries have made the necessary arrangements with the United States to permit an amateur station regulated by the FCC to exchange messages for a third party with amateur stations in: Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Belize, Bolivia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Federal Islamic Republic of Comoros, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, The Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Israel, Jamaica, Jordan, Liberia, Republic of the Marshall Islands, Mexico, Federated States of Micronesia, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, St. Christopher and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Sierra Leone, South Africa, Swaziland, Trinidad and Tobago, Turkey, United Kingdom (special event stations with call sign prefix GB followed by a number other than 3), Uruguay, and Venezuela.

The United Nations also has arrangements with the United States to permit an amateur station regulated by the FCC to exchange messages for a third party with amateur stations 4U1ITU in Geneva, Switzerland, and 4U1VIC in Vienna, Austria.
No amateur station regulated by the FCC shall transmit messages for a third party to any amateur station located within the jurisdiction of any foreign government not listed above. This prohibition does not apply to a message for any third party who is eligible to be the control operator of the station.

AE6RF
05-06-2010, 01:13 AM
If you have an extra class licensee over they can operate in the extra class portions but they have to append their call to yours. On CW I could operate your general class station in the extra portions by signing KB1SAY/AC0H, or stay in the general portions and use just your call.


Why wouldn't I just use my extra call?

73 de Donald

WA9SVD
05-06-2010, 04:11 AM
My interpretatioon is a little different. Any person visitting your station may operate your station, using your call, and under your supervision, with the privlidges you hold. They may speak to anybody that you could speak to. Third party traffic is just that. It is traffic you are passing to another ham on behalf of a "hird party". Has nothing to do with who is operating your station with you was control operator and supervising the other persons activity at your station. The visitor need not have a license.

Regards
Lee
NI7I

Not quite. If a visitor us unlicensed or holds an Amateur Licesne of a Class lower than your class license ("underlicensed,") the third-party restrictions apply as to contacts outside the U.S. and posessions. If the visitor holds a license that is the same class as yourself, they may talk to any DX they wish.
You can find the list of countries that ALLOW third party cobtacts at the ARRL Web Site. If a ciountry is NOT listed then your station may NOT allow contact where or when an unlicensed or "underlicensed" person is involved.

W5RB
05-06-2010, 04:25 AM
I'm sure I have seen discussion from an authoritative source that says amateur licensees of any class are NOT considered "third parties" for the purpose of the rule . If I can find that , I'll post it here . If it matters to your particular situation , a call to Newington should get you some clarification .

NI7I
05-06-2010, 04:37 AM
Not quite. If a visitor us unlicensed or holds an Amateur Licesne of a Class lower than your class license ("underlicensed,") the third-party restrictions apply as to contacts outside the U.S. and posessions. If the visitor holds a license that is the same class as yourself, they may talk to any DX they wish.
You can find the list of countries that ALLOW third party cobtacts at the ARRL Web Site. If a ciountry is NOT listed then your station may NOT allow contact where or when an unlicensed or "underlicensed" person is involved.

Here is the definition of thier party traffic: The generally accepted definition is "written or voice traffic between the control operator of one amateur station (first party) and the control operator of another amateur station (second party) on behalf of another person (third party)”. Usually it amounts to short written noncommercial messages between people who are not necessarily amateur radio operators".

I'm not sure where you are coming from. Any visitor to your station, licensed or not may use your privlidges as lopng as you are supervising the use and your call is being used. Under those conditions, he or she may talk top anybody your license alows.

Lee
NI7I

N4CR
05-06-2010, 04:41 AM
On CW I could operate your general class station in the extra portions by signing KB1SAY/AC0H, or stay in the general portions and use just your call.

Stations are not licensed, so there is no such thing as a general class station.

The license class limits and privileges are the same as the license class of the call identifying the station, regardless of where the station is physically located.

WA4OTD
05-06-2010, 04:41 AM
I'll try to be specific.


What exactly are the rules when having guests in the shack? They can operate your station with your call sign within your license and you are responsible for what they do. they can use their call sign (if they have one) and operate within that license.

Would this be third party traffic when letting a guest talk to other hams? No, third party traffic is something different. http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about_2&id=amateur

I wanna know what rules there are when you (the control operator) allow a guest to get on the air. are they limited contries with the third party agreement? and are they allowed to call CQ?

Thanks, ben;KB1SAY

W0IS
05-06-2010, 04:50 AM
Unlicensed persons speaking into your microphone most certainly are "third parties".

There is no provision whatsoever in the rules that allows an unlicensed person to "operate" a station. There is a rule that allows an unlicensed person to "participate" in the communication by speaking into the microphone. And it's generally accepted that such a person may, under the supervistion of the control operator, turn knobs, etc. But the only "operator" referred to in the rules is the control operator. There is no other kind of operator contemplated by the rules, much less an unlicensed "operator". Such a person is a mere "participant".

If I'm wrong, then it will be an easy matter to find the rule that allows an unlicensed person to operate the station. There is but one provision discussing the subject, it refers to that person as "participating", and it makes abundantly clear that the person is a third-party, and that the communications that go out over the air are third-party communications.

So in response to the original questions (which are very astute questions):


Would this be third party traffic when letting a guest talk to other hams?

Yes.


I wanna know what rules there are when you (the control operator) allow a guest to get on the air. are they limited contries with the third party agreement?

Yes.


and are they allowed to call CQ?

That's an extremely astute question. In my opinion, the answer is "yes". However, as you are undoubtedly thinking, a "CQ" is directed to everyone, including those in countries with which we don't have a third party agreement. So in that sense, I guess it's questionable.

But I wouldn't worry about that. I probably wouldn't let the person call "CQ DX". But if a DX station answers, the guest can't come back to them.

Incidentally, in general, we do have third-party agreements with the Western Hemisphere, but we don't have them with Europe. For example, the last I checked, we did have a third-party agreement with Cuba, but not with England (with one exception).

WA4OTD
05-06-2010, 05:14 AM
I don't understand? I think unlicensed persons speaking into your microphone are guest operators. Third party communications are something different I believe.
Third Party Communications

Section 97.115 of the Commission's Rules, 47 C.F.R. §97.115 (http://wireless.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/wtbbye.pl?http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=97&SECTION=115&TYPE=TEXT), authorizes an amateur station regulated by the FCC to transmit a message from its control operator (first party) to another amateur station control operator (second party) on behalf of another person (third party).


Unlicensed persons speaking into your microphone most certainly are "third parties".

K9STH
05-06-2010, 02:36 PM
7I:

If an amateur radio operator with a LOWER class license utilizes your station OUTSIDE of their license class privileges they definitely are considered "third party" for the simple fact that they do NOT have any operating privileges in that segment.

Remember when "phone patches" were very popular. A non-licensed person could communicate over an amateur radio transmitter so long as there was a third party agreement in effect between the licensing authorities of both stations involved. However, if there is no third party agreement then it is blatantly illegal for someone without an amateur radio operator's license which gives authority for operation in the band segment involved to communicate with the other station. That includes persons holding lower class amateur radio operator's licenses.


RF:

Since there are no longer "fixed station locations" for amateur radio stations using your own call is one option. But, if, for some reason, the owner of the equipment wants his/her call sign used then, to operate outside of the privileges of the particular call sign, the call of the higher class licensee must be appended.

Glen, K9STH

W0IS
05-06-2010, 04:12 PM
I don't understand? I think unlicensed persons speaking into your microphone are guest operators.

What section of the rules covers "guest operators"?

The only thing that comes close is 97.115(b) which specifies the circumstances under which a third party may "participate in stating the message".

Under 97.115(a), if the third party is "eligible to be a control operator of the station" (in other words, has a high enough class of license), then he's allowed to talk to stations in countries without a third-party agreement. But if he's unlicensed or is out of band for his own license, then he is not allowed to do so. And if you look at the section heading, you'll see why: because the activity that is taking place is third-party traffic.

K7JEM
05-06-2010, 04:23 PM
From the FCC website:


Q: Is it correct that there is no distinction between a third party who holds an amateur operator license grant and one who doesn't?

You are correct. The Rules make no distinction between a third party who holds an amateur operator license grant and one who does not.

Q: May I allow the third party to speak the words of the message during the transmission of a third-party communication?

Yes, you may allow the third party to participate in stating the message by speaking, typing, telegraph keying the words of the message, pointing the video camera or by whatever means the message is generated. Section 97.115, however, prohibits you from allowing the third party to so participate where the third party is a prior amateur service licensee whose license was revoked; suspended for less than the balance of the license term and the suspension is still in effect; suspended for the balance of the license term and relicensing has not taken place; or surrendered for cancellation following notice of revocation, suspension or monetary forfeiture proceedings. The third party, moreover, may not be the subject of a cease and desist order that relates to amateur service operation and which is still in effect.


http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about_1&id=amateur

W5HTW
05-06-2010, 04:44 PM
What section of the rules covers "guest operators"?

The only thing that comes close is 97.115(b) which specifies the circumstances under which a third party may "participate in stating the message".

Under 97.115(a), if the third party is "eligible to be a control operator of the station" (in other words, has a high enough class of license), then he's allowed to talk to stations in countries without a third-party agreement. But if he's unlicensed or is out of band for his own license, then he is not allowed to do so. And if you look at the section heading, you'll see why: because the activity that is taking place is third-party traffic.

The third party is defined generally as any non-licensed or under-licensed person speaking over the microphone of a amateur radio station, under the auspices of a properly licensed control operator. It's pretty simple.

Some elaboration below, but the above sentence says it all.

So if Joe Tech comes to my house, and wants to speak on my radio, in the Extra Class phone band, he is, for all legal purposes, not licensed at all. He is a third party. If he wants to use my radio on six meters, where he had full privileges, he is completely licensed for that, and may do so without my present as a control operator. At a time in the past he would have been required to use my call sign, as he was operating a station under my station license, but that is no longer true.

Can he call CQ? Certainly. But he must be careful whom he answers, as has already been noted. He cannot respond to a country with which we do not have third party agreements.

If he is Joe Tech, and we are operating on 40 meter SSB, can he use his call? No. On 40 meter SSB he is not licensed, so his call isn't valid. If we move down to the CW portion, where he does have privileges, can he use my station on Tech-licensed CW operation, using his call sign? Yes. Again, some years back that would not have been correct, but it works today, due to the FCC no longer issuing fixed locations for amateur radio stations.

So it's pretty simple. He is not an "operator" when he is not within his own license class. That means he is not a 'guest operator,' since he is not an operator of any type. He is simply a person speaking over the microphone.

Glen mentioned phone patches. They are practically non-existent today, though now and then I hear some US vessel in Mexican waters running a patch back to the US. In the early days of phone patches, VOX operation was not permitted, because it meant the non-licensed third party was switching the transmitter on and off with his/her voice! So all switching had to be done with "over" and the control operator would then throw the switch to transmit (or receive.) When rules were relaxed, VOX operation became possible, but the control op had to monitor very closely, with his finger on the button, to prevent inadvertent profanity, or business talk, from hitting the airwaves.

During those years, the third party was prohibited from identifying the station. That had to come from the licensed operator. So during a phone patch, every ten minutes, the operator would stop the conversation and identify his station with something like "W3GAB this is W5HTW running a phone patch." Then he would return to the patch traffic.

Also, once upon a time, the third party could make zero adjustments to the transmitter. No VFO movement, no increasing or decreasing mike gain, etc. Could not touch the controls of the transmitter. This even included changing channels on a channelized rig! As transceivers became the norm, that rule, too, went away. That third party might have to trim the VFO a bit to clarify the signal some. Or might have to peak the pre-selector, which would also affect Drive tuning. Now, under the eye of the control operator, those actions are permissiable. Or at least, the rules don't address them specifically.

Like just about everything else in our nation, third party operation has been greatly deregulated, but not entirely. Things have changed a lot. Much of it for the good, I suppose, though I do miss 'the old days' when being a ham was a somewhat elite thing to do in its own right.

Simplification. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it gets more confusing!

Ed

W0JBC
05-06-2010, 09:02 PM
Ben,

Now you have it . It is clearly written in the Rules and Regulations .

This question has been asked MANY times .

The only change , in the last 40 years , has been the elimination of the station license . Nothing , other than that , has changed .

As HTW stated, the VOX - patches were relaxed. The only thing with that, was that a control op , always , was in control ( listening ) to maintain his stations transmissions to be within the parameters of the rules .


Later,

JB

WA9SVD
05-06-2010, 09:35 PM
I'm sure I have seen discussion from an authoritative source that says amateur licensees of any class are NOT considered "third parties" for the purpose of the rule . If I can find that , I'll post it here . If it matters to your particular situation , a call to Newington should get you some clarification .

Unfortunately, such an opinion did not come from an authority. It's quite clear in §Part 97.115:

"...NO STATION SHALL TRANSMIT MESSAGES FOR A THIRD PARTY TO ANY STATION WHTHIN THE JURISDICTION OF ANY FOREIGN GOVERNMENT WHOSE ADMINISTRATION HAS [B]NOT[B] MADE SUCH AN AGREEMENT. This prohibition does not apply to a message for any third party who is eligible to be a control operator of the station."

An unlicensed person, Novice, Tech, General, or Advanced licensee would NOT be able to act as a third party on Extra frequencies UNLESS the other country is on the third party list, because only an Extra would be able to act as control operator on those frequencies.

WA9SVD
05-06-2010, 09:44 PM
From the FCC website:



http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about_1&id=amateur

With all due respect, read the actual rule in §Part 97, not some FAQ's posted on even the FCC site.
I sincerely believe would enforce the letter of the law, not FAQ answers. (It's the same thing with the IRS. If you let them compute your taxes, and there's an error, YOU are still responsible, evenn if it was their mistake.)

WA4OTD
05-06-2010, 10:04 PM
I couldn't find anything in the rules either but all study material I find use the guest operator language. I'll look more later.


What section of the rules covers "guest operators"?

The only thing that comes close is 97.115(b) which specifies the circumstances under which a third party may "participate in stating the message".

Under 97.115(a), if the third party is "eligible to be a control operator of the station" (in other words, has a high enough class of license), then he's allowed to talk to stations in countries without a third-party agreement. But if he's unlicensed or is out of band for his own license, then he is not allowed to do so. And if you look at the section heading, you'll see why: because the activity that is taking place is third-party traffic.

K7JEM
05-06-2010, 10:09 PM
With all due respect, read the actual rule in §Part 97, not some FAQ's posted on even the FCC site.
I sincerely believe would enforce the letter of the law, not FAQ answers. (It's the same thing with the IRS. If you let them compute your taxes, and there's an error, YOU are still responsible, evenn if it was their mistake.)

The FAQs just clarify the rules, they say nothing that is contradictory to them.

K2QI
11-08-2010, 03:43 PM
I know this is an old thread but I was curious as to actual protocol when allowing an unlicensed person to transmit from my station. I've never done this before.

For example, if I'm in QSO with a station in CONUS and my daughter who is unlicensed would like to say hello and speak for a minute, how would I initiate the process?

Would I say something along the lines of "This is K2QI, please stand by for 3rd party traffic" then let my daughter speak? Once done, would I get back on the mic and say "K2QI, end of third party transmission?"

Or would I just have my daughter sign with my call while I'm present, requiring no real introduction or intervention on my part?

K7JEM
11-08-2010, 03:57 PM
I know this is an old thread but I was curious as to actual protocol when allowing an unlicensed person to transmit from my station. I've never done this before.

For example, if I'm in QSO with a station in CONUS and my daughter who is unlicensed would like to say hello and speak for a minute, how would I initiate the process?

Would I say something along the lines of "This is K2QI, please stand by for 3rd party traffic" then let my daughter speak? Once done, would I get back on the mic and say "K2QI, end of third party transmission?"

Or would I just have my daughter sign with my call while I'm present, requiring no real introduction or intervention on my part?


You don't really have to do anything special. Usually just say your daughter wants to talk. No special ID or anything needed. The rule doesn't say anything about procedure in handling third party traffic, as far as announcements or ID changes (at least as far as domestic TP traffic).

Joe

K2QI
11-08-2010, 04:07 PM
You don't really have to do anything special. Usually just say your daughter wants to talk. No special ID or anything needed. The rule doesn't say anything about procedure in handling third party traffic, as far as announcements or ID changes (at least as far as domestic TP traffic).

Joe

Thanks for the clarification Joe. Good to know.

WA9SVD
11-09-2010, 12:40 AM
My interpretatioon is a little different. Any person visitting your station may operate your station, using your call, and under your supervision, with the privlidges you hold. They may speak to anybody that you could speak to. Third party traffic is just that. It is traffic you are passing to another ham on behalf of a "hird party". Has nothing to do with who is operating your station with you was control operator and supervising the other persons activity at your station. The visitor need not have a license.

Regards
Lee
NI7I

NOT TRUE!
Even if you ARE present, and acting as "Control Operator," there are still restrictions on "third party" operations, and a non-licensed (or under-licensed)person may NOT communicate with other Amateurs (or individuals) that are licensed in (the relatively short list) those countries which allow "third party traffic" from U.S. Amateurs.
in many other other countries which do NOT allow "third party".communications.".
"Amateur to Amateur" comms are allowed in all circumstances, but when a non-licensed individual at either end of the connection (or FCC licensee who does not have privileges on the operating frequency) the "Third Party" regulations are in force.

WA9CWX
11-09-2010, 03:31 AM
I don't have any visitors who know code, so I'm home free on this whole matter....:D

WA9SVD
11-09-2010, 04:30 AM
Here is the definition of thier party traffic: The generally accepted definition is "written or voice traffic between the control operator of one amateur station (first party) and the control operator of another amateur station (second party) on behalf of another person (third party)”. Usually it amounts to short written noncommercial messages between people who are not necessarily amateur radio operators".

I'm not sure where you are coming from. Any visitor to your station, licensed or not may use your privlidges as lopng as you are supervising the use and your call is being used. Under those conditions, he or she may talk top anybody your license alows.

Lee
NI7I


Sorry, but "third party" is ANY communique that is not from non- licensed operator to licensed operator.

Your statement ONLY applies to contacts between U.S, licensed Amateurs, NOT necessarily to those operators in foreigh countries! *I.e. DX!)

A non-licensed person may NOT even "talk" over the equipment in MY station to another (licensed Amateur) station unless that station's country has a third party agreement with the U.S. As a licensed Amateur, I may talk to Amateurs in ANY country, but a "third party" person is limited. Please see the FCC rules for specific restrictons.

WA9SVD
11-09-2010, 07:09 AM
You don't really have to do anything special. Usually just say your daughter wants to talk. No special ID or anything needed. The rule doesn't say anything about procedure in handling third party traffic, as far as announcements or ID changes (at least as far as domestic TP traffic).

Joe

There are NO restrictions between U.S. Amateurs and Amateurs in the U.S. possesions/dependencies governed by the U.S.
Your daughter (using your call and supervison as control operator) may make contact with ANY Amateur in the U.S. or any territories administrered by the U.S. (E.g., Puerto Rico, Guam... etc.)

K7MH
11-09-2010, 07:27 AM
And on another note, anyone can loan a station to another properly licensed ham. Of course that ham can only operate within his license restrictions and does not have to append one call to the other.

K2QI
11-10-2010, 08:37 PM
There are NO restrictions between U.S. Amateurs and Amateurs in the U.S. possesions/dependencies governed by the U.S.
Your daughter (using your call and supervison as control operator) may make contact with ANY Amateur in the U.S. or any territories administrered by the U.S. (E.g., Puerto Rico, Guam... etc.)

Interesting; now how does that apply to something like Echolink with an RF connection on the other end? I may be talking to another US station on a reflector that has links to nodes or repeaters in countries that do not have third party agreements.

WA9SVD
11-11-2010, 06:15 AM
My interpretatioon is a little different. Any person visitting your station may operate your station, using your call, and under your supervision, with the privlidges you hold. They may speak to anybody that you could speak to. Third party traffic is just that. It is traffic you are passing to another ham on behalf of a "hird party". Has nothing to do with who is operating your station with you was control operator and supervising the other persons activity at your station. The visitor need not have a license.

Regards
Lee
NI7I

I'm afraid your interpretation is not entirely accurate. Third Party communications ARE allowed with ANY station licensed and under the jurisdiction of the F.C.C.
But you have to be VERY careful when it comes to International communications. There IS a list (short list, actually) of countries with which U.S. Amateurs may hold third party communications. There ARE surprisingly few countries with which we may have third party communications. The (most up to date) list CAN be found at the ARRL web site.
Allowing third party communications with Amateurs from countries NOT on the approved list are a violation of FCC rules.

WA9SVD
11-11-2010, 06:19 AM
Interesting; now how does that apply to something like Echolink with an RF connection on the other end? I may be talking to another US station on a reflector that has links to nodes or repeaters in countries that do not have third party agreements.

Giood question. I guess only the FCC could answer that! The original intent of the "Third Party" regulations (and restrictions) was to protect the tariffs and taxes imposed by other countries on what could be considered communications that should be handled via the normal telophone systems.

W0IS
11-11-2010, 06:54 AM
Giood question. I guess only the FCC could answer that! The original intent of the "Third Party" regulations (and restrictions) was to protect the tariffs and taxes imposed by other countries on what could be considered communications that should be handled via the normal telophone systems.

The FCC has answered that question!

Echolink raises a number of issues that the rules didn't really contemplate. But if I'm using the radio and talking to an Echolink node located in the United States, then it seems to me that there's not a problem, even if the ultimate destination is outside the U.S.

Under 97.115, "no station shall transmit messages for a third party to any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government [without a third party agreement]."

If I'm on my 2 meter rig, and I'm talking to an Echolink node inside the United States, I might be sending messages to a third party, but the station to whom I am transmitting it is not "any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government."

If the guy running the Echolink node sends the message via radio to another country, then he might be in trouble. But that's not my problem. But more importantly, he is not transmitting the message to a foreign station--he is sending it via the internet. In the other country, another ham will take that message and retransmit it over the air. I don't know what the laws are in that country, so presumably it's up to him whether or not he should do so.

But if the laws of that country are the same as the laws here, then it's acceptable for him to do so. Again, he is not sending a message to a foreign station. He is taking a message from the internet, and transmitting it to someone in his own country.

The rule is very clear that my only concern is the radio link. For example, it's perfectly legal for me to work another U.S. ham, and ask him to send an e-mail to someone in England.

On the other hand, it is not legal for me to work a ham in England and ask him to send an e-mail to someone in the U.S. Because if I did that, I would be transmitting the message for a third party to a station within the jurisdiction of a foreign government," and this is true even though the ultimate recipient of the message is in the U.S. The rules do not prohibit traffic based upon who the ultimate recipient is. They prohibit traffic "transmitted" to certain countries.

Part 97 regulates what we can do over the air. It doesn't purport to regulate messages that we send over the internet, over the phone, etc. As long as I am not transmitting third party traffic to a station in another country, I'm not violating that rule.

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