Slamming the Door on Ham Radio's Future

[KC5CPO]

The other day, a few ham radio friends and I corralled a group of about 30 kids ranging in age from 9-16 and put on a ham radio orientation for them. The purpose was to follow up with Tech classes, get these kids licensed, and start a ham radio club for the youth in our church. We had a great Power Point presentation, with lots of fun stories about the many adventures we had in this great hobby. The kids loved it! They had lots of questions after the presentation too! Then it was time to give them a hands on experience with ham radio. Before the meeting, we had set up an HF radio with a longwire antenna. We tuned around 20 meters for awhile, and finally heard a station calling CQ. We responded to that station and explianed to him what we were doing and how we wanted to give a few kids the opportunity to talk. This Operator shot back with "I don't talk to children on the radio." And that was the end of that! How do you explain to 30 young people that this is a friendly hobby when they just heard for themselves otherwise. Fortunately, that didn't discourage them. We will be starting classes next week and all but one will be in attendance. These young people are the future of ham radio. We older operators aparently think we will live forever. We complain in this and other forums that Ham Radio is dying because it is not getting the positive exposure it needs... yet we fail to look to ourselves and realize that perhaps we are the cause of the negative exposure. Here is our opportunity! Let's not slam the door on the future of Ham Radio. Let's embrace them with open arms.

[wu3u]

You unfortunately fell upon one of the maliginant characters that are all too common in Ham Radio: #The Sour Curmudgeon!

I like to think that these characters are relatively few in number but they still manage to turn off newcomers and even some seasoned Hams too.

Still I applaud your efforts to demonstrate Ham Radio to the kids. #Just keep doing so and forget those sour SOBs
who try to throw cold water on your efforts!

For future presentations, perhaps you should have a sked set with a station that you know will be friendly
and encouraging to the kids.

73 to all

Tim
N8LXR

[N0PU]

Murphy has struck again...

Might I suggest that when you are gonna make another stab at this type of thing, you make a sked with three or four reliable ops to meet you and talk to the kids.

I know of a group called 'live-wires' on the yahoo groups who is run by a very nice fella, N9ZRT, who happens to be a Lutheren Pastor, and there are a BUNCH of really good hams in this group from all over the world who would make a sked with ya and then be there when they said they will, particularly for a youth demo.

Check 'em out at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Live-Wire/

They'll help if they can...
(I'm temporarily off HF, but i would if I could!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kb1cgg]

It's sad too hear that someone would say that over the air, while kids are waiting and listening. I for one would like to have the chance to welcome them and encourage them into this hobby. Just let me know and i will try and do the right thing.Unfourtunately there's always some jerk out there thinking their better or too good for non amateurs or people getting into amateur radio. I say to them remember back when they first started and they #wanted their first contact on HF. Don't turn them away from the hobby by being negative. Keep doing the good works there for the betterment of the hobby. The good hams will make the effort for your group. 73' de N1ZW ex (kb1cgg) RI

[JJ1BDX]

When I got my first ticket at the age of 10 (in Japan third-party traffics are not allowed), many adults then were good people, but some of them didn't deal with me seriously and honestly, and that experience still hurts my feelings. This sort of miscommunication could happen between different age groups, especially between kids and adults. I suggest those who elmer kids should let the kids understand that not all adults are good people and that they should be very careful on protecting themselves.

Some OTs may complain to my opinion above, but that's what I've learned from the real ham radio. Of course I welcome kids and young people as well as the elders, but those people should be well-informed against the possible abuse.

73 de Joe JJ1BDX/3 es AE6LI, now 37 (being ham for 27 years)

[ae4fa]

Joe is dead on!

This is the major reason I mourn the passing of the Novice license as the gateway to amateur radio. On CW, real communication occurs without the artificial crap. Age doesn't matter. Sex doesn't matter. Nationality doesn't matter. It is just simple person to person communication.

[WA0KNP]

I got my license when I was 10 years old....I am now 50 years old and, fortunately, I have never had a bad experience with an old fart #. #I hope I never become one!
Please keep up your efforts to bring new people into ham radio it is, in my estimation, the greatest of all hobbies. #I wish all operators would remember that HAM RADIO IS A HOBBY!!! #IT IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD DO FOR FUN!!! #Sure, we do emergency communications, etc, occasionally..but, for the most part, this is something we should do for fun, relaxation and perhaps a little education. #Let's keep it that way.

If you need to get serious and stuffy about something...go into politics (incidentally I am also an elected city official)

73 #"Ray" WA0KNP

[N7XB]

Sorry to read this sad, but too often heard story. In addition to the others' suggestions, next time try hf digital, e.g., psk31. The kids are more adept than most adults at keyboarding and the receiving ham cannot tell age, sex, etc.

Then just for fun, send the obligatory 3 minute brag file. You know, something like:

"Been a ham since World War I, invented the internet with Al Gore, Rig is YAESU FT-1000D running only 2 watts to seven element beam on top of Mt. Rainier . . ."

The kids will love psk31 . . .

[n3xp]

Who was it that shot you down? I would like to know! I would not want to answer his CQ by mistake.

[k4lem]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N8LXR @ Mar. 07 2003,18:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You unfortunately fell upon one of the maliginant characters that are all too common in Ham Radio: #The Sour Curmudgeon![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, isn't it too bad that such people are so common. On the positive side there are a lot of elmers who would love to help a kid get started.
I remember my elmer, W1NLO, actually Burt helped me in life more than being a ham, but I will never forget.
One night in 1959, this, then 12 year old went to the Naval Coast Guard station to take the novice test. Burt was the examiner. I was so nervous, but I did have good rhyum. My mom told me when I began to send the smiles on Burt's face, she will never forget.
Both of them now have gone up yonder, but I tell this just to say, there are many good hearted people that take prode in their giving of their time to younsters who want to be hams.

[W9JCM]

First off I would like to day FB on the promotion of Amateur Radio. And we all know there are tons of jerks out there. Just a matter of tunning away. But I do understand your delima with the kids. I would also like to say its great to promote ham radio but please don't shove it down kids throats that don't want to indulge. I have seen this allot. I am not saying you are doing that at all, just adding in my opinion. Now on the jerkos defense you dont have to talk to anyone you dont want to. But he or she should of used a bit more common sense. Like just say he needed to go and sign thats it. Anyhow keep up the good work.

[vk2bvs]

Hello David.

That’s a great story and a great effort.

I find that it’s good to have the finger on the volume control during public displays so you can quickly fade out unwanted reception.

Here is how to get your kids talking with the Solomon Islands kids.

There are many young Solomon Island Ham students and graduates who will be operating as volunteers on a boat whom your students can listen for while they study.

The same frequency and times listed below are used during on air training from the ham radio training school.

Many USA contacts were had this week from Solomon Islands on 28.490MHz.

Several graduates and students of the Amateur Radio Training School have been asked by the National Disaster Management Organisation of the Solomon Islands to accompany relief supplies including food to the Islands of Rennell and Bellona on a boat that departs the Capital Honiara on Tuesday 11 March 2003.

This will be a 7 day trip. See http://www.H44A.com

Listen for H44MD (15years old when he got started. He must be 16 now) and other H44’s between 2000 to 1400UTC daily on 28.490MHz USB.

Best times to the USA is 2100 to 0200UTC.

Leave your radio on 28.490MHz USB when you are not using it.

The school will be active on that frequency all year.

Keep up the great effort.

73...Sam in Sydney, Australia

My Webpage (http://www.h44a.com)

[W5HTW]

Certainly you stumbled across one of the bad apples, which exist in every hobby and human activity. As some have suggested, why leave it up to chance? Find someone willing to schedule with you in advance, and try it again.

And as someone else said, the removal of the Novice class license as the ham training ground, and the substitution of the CB ticket and the FM repeaters as the entry into ham radio absolutely changed the face of the hobby forever - and dramatically. But a CW demonstration from a Novice station would not catch the eye of the uninitiated; one needs voice excitement for that (and not the local repeaters!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

One thing I find troubling is the attitude that every child in the nation should become a ham. What you did, exposing a group of children to the hobby is good, but all too often the next step is attempting to pressure them all into becoming licensed. That is like making every child play baseball, or like the same movies or music. Exposure is, though, the only way to find those who are interested. We make the mistake when we automatically assume they will all want to become hams.

I commend you on your efforts to create that exposure. Don't give up - the kids have already heard worse in the chat rooms and on CB, as well as on their cell phones and pagers.

73
Ed

[KC5CPO]

Thanks for all the great responses and e-mails offering suggestions and skeds. You are what this hobby is all about and you are examples of the great people I have met overall in this hobby. I have chosen to forget this bad apple and his call sign and have no plans of giving his call in this forum. One thing I want to clarify, however. Exposure to this hobby was the primary motivation for this orientation class. Licensing is secondary. It will always be the decision of the young people whither to become licenced or not. I will never force these kids to get involved in something they would not be interested in. That having been said, almost all of the young people that came out to the orientation have decided, on their own will, to take the classes. Some even called me at home during the week to specifically ask when the classes would start. Thanks again for your encouraging words... And I will be contacting some of you by e-mail to plan a sked.
73!

[w6th]

How come no-one has mentioned: Hey this is a hobby!

Usually when something goes wrong it is blamed on the hobby. #Have not heard that mentioned yet.

I go along with the idea of don't pressure young boys and girls, explain to them what it is about and let them themselves decide for themselves. Don't try to control them to your wants.

I talked over a ham station at the age of 7, I was addicted immediately to ham radio with no pressure. At the age of 15 I was licensed.

Now how about you? #Was you pressured? Or did you do it on your own?

[k4uno]

Don't be discouraged, you are doing good work. There are hams out there that drink a gallon of vinegar every morning. Fortunately there are not abundant.

[ke2iv]

Thank you, oh thank you, oh a million times, thank you!!

Now let me tell you my latest - because this one goes to the heart.

I am a Life Member of the ARRL and was increasingly frustrated that I kept getting shut out of the Continuing Ed course for Emergency Communications.

So, finally, I "bitched" to the top and with a little back and forth they got me into the next course. #So how does this relate?

Here's how....

I had to speak with a key official at ARRL HQ #who told me a bunch of problems they are having even now, post-9/11, in convincing emergency response agencies (e.g. the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, your local police, fire and whatever....companies) to involve hams in providing much needed EC communications.

Why, you say. #Aren't we hams the great communicators?

Hold on, cowboy.

They are reluctant to include us!

Why, you ask.

Too darn (to use a mild phase) ARROGANT!!!

To paraphrase what he said: #

"Consider that you have an emergency situation. #RC, police other emergency response agencies etc. are on hand and could use communications support. #What happens? #In too many cases, hams rush in, shouting 'We're here and 'In Charge'. #And, now you have these guys with a bunch of radio's dangling off their rather large girths and antennas sticking out of their heads rushing in with an attitude and what do you think?"

He said, "you say to the security people, Get these arrogant "whatevers" out of here!"

Hams have got to cut the ARROGANCE crap if we want to keep this great thing going!

We need a ton of young people to come in and play with us - - an we need a million tons of humility so that they want to do so.

[K5MAR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke2iv @ Mar. 08 2003,00:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">/snip/
I had to speak with a key official at ARRL HQ #who told me a bunch of problems they are having even now, post-9/11, in convincing emergency response agencies (e.g. the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, your local police, fire and whatever....companies) to involve hams in providing much needed EC communications.
/snip/[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Good job on exposing this group of kids to Amateur radio, keep it up!

Now to the excerpt I quoted, I do have a hard time believing that the Salvation Army is resistant to Amateur Radio. #What about SATERN, the Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio Network? #This is a group of Amateur Radio operators working with the Salvation Army to assist the SA efforts during emergencies. #They played a big role in the amateur response after 9/11. #Our local ARC has had to move our meetings from the local Red Cross due to their moving and losing space, so we followed up on a contact initiated by the local SA chapter almost a year before. #To say we were greeted with open arms is an understatement! #To quote my ARES EC: "The SA speaks HAM! #These folks are very into emergency communications, traffic nets, you name it." #The SA even puts out a weekly newsletter about Amateur Radio activities to all its local groups. #The two questions the local SA head has asked us are "Is there anything you need?" and "Are we doing enough?" #They've given us a couple of rooms to set up our club station, are letting us use their building for club meetings, allowing us to set up any antennas we want/need, have asked us to install a 2m rig in their Disaster Services trailer, and are even trying to get the club a surplus Disaster Services trailer that we can outfit as an Emergency Communications trailer! #The SA is about as pro-ham as you can get. #Check out the SATERN website at http://satern.org

I know there are some agencies that are a bit gun-shy regarding Amateur Radio, but the Salvation Army is NOT one of them. #Contact your local SA and see for yourself.

Mark Schneider - K5MAR
AEC, Payne County, OK ARES

[K6UEY]

I have just read the last 2 pages chastizing the indivudual who plainly admitted he doesn't talk to kids. Everyone seemed to agree he is obviously the one at fault since he doesn't follow the line of conduct others have laid out for him to follow. I saw no comment about some one asking him why he had that attitude, nor did i see anything about trying to understand his point of view, only critisism of his honest views.
Maybe he was one of those OF's who went out of his way to help others and got rejected to the point he just gave up. You know the Hams I refer to the ones who say I can't do it, or I don wanna do it, #or it is too hard for me to learn, change it and make it easier and I then will try to learn. For some one who has advanced through the ranks and gained experience and knowledge and is willing to pass it on, how long are they suppose to put up with this" ME GENERATION" attitude and the whining and crying , before they throw up their hands in disgust.
The comments made about him may very well be true but no one bothered to find out, it is much easier to downgrade him than to try to understand his point of view.
ENJOY what little is left !! It is later than you think .....
73, # ORV
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NO7S]

I had the chance to talk to some youngsters and their adult leader at a middle school in Grand Jct., CO.
(K-zero-EMS) on 17 meters near the end of last month.
They called "CQ" and I responded to them.
So... just a thought... maybe you should call your own "CQ's." Less chance of getting "jerked" and I would certainly be one to respond.

I'll tell you what; I'd gladly have a contact with a 10 year old with no license (stuttering and stammering nervously) with a control point op. sitting nearby than a recently converted 11-meter mentality who thinks he knows it all but can get passed the habitual "ten-somthing" lexicon. That makes me QSY quicker than anything else.

Keep up the good work and I hope to put you in my log; kids and all.

Bob

[kc5yla]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gifAt least ya'll weren't tuned to the
"Drunken Idiots and Fools Group" at 3.853 MHz.

[kb9num]

It pays to have a prior relationship with the person you contact for a school presentation. I set up a sked or two beforehand and avoid the grumps.

The post about arrogance of hams in emergency situations points out how little the poster knows about proper ARES/RACES operation. There is no reluctance on the part of the served agency when an ARES/RACES group has practiced with and is known by the group. I suspect the poster will have a more complete understanding about the relationship that must exist for acceptance. Any ham that shows up at the time of the emergency, and who hasn't done any prep work with the group, has no right to expect to be put to work. Good ARES/RACES groups have done the work.

[W7WV]

Yes, you would think if you were calling CQ that you were willing to take what you get. Even if the OM did not want to talk to the kids, he should have, at least for a few minutes. You never know, they might have taught him something!

None of us are perfect, and some of us are bound not to have anything in common. I spend quite a bit of time talking with prospective hams (kids) on the air. I think it's great.

However, there seem to be a lot stations out there that think it's easier for the kids if they are "scripted" and told what to say and to that I disagree.

If the kids are willing to talk on the radio, they don't need to be telling me their favorite color and things like that. I think when you do that you are removing something from the converstation and the kids are nervous enough and trying to remember what to say. Certainly not natural. Give some of these kids credit, they just might have something to say on their own.
And some of them you just might have a problem getting the mike back from them!

73

[KG4TBA]

I suggest you tell who this rude person is so his naughty childish behavior can be dealt with in a like manner,non-communication by other hams by not answering his CQ'S.

[kd7kgx]

Congrats on trying to get more young blood into the hobby.

If I was the one running the presentation, I'd get a note on a QSL card off to the rude op... politely explaining what I was trying to do and how he nearly ruined it, and then reminding him that without new hams we will lose our privileges and he will not be able to talk to anyone on his radio!

There's no excuse for this behavior. #Sure, there is no requirement for anyone to talk to anyone else... but if you're not interested in talking to anyone who wants to talk to you then why are you calling CQ? #More important, why are you in this hobby if you don't like people?

Finally... re many organizations not wanting to work with hams... this hobby suffers from the "volunteer fireman" syndrome (and yes, I have been a volunteer fireman with a good department... and volunteer fire departments ALSO suffer from this syndrome!). #Too many insecure types think that because they have a license and can operate (to some extent) a radio, that gives them some sort of authority. #I can tell you from personal experience that emergency organizations LOVE volunteers who are sincerely interested in helping, and detest "volunteers" who want to put some sort of "official" insignia on, set up the flashing red light in the windshield, have a police car look-a-like with more antennas than the local Radio Shack, and in general want to lord it over the very people they're supposed to be helping.

The ARRL's ECC courses stress humility and the willingness to follow instructions as the two prerequisites for being a successful ARES/RACES volunteer... everything else can be taught or bought. #Unfortunately, there are enough hams out there who "don't play well with others." #That tendency will, if not checked, be what kills this hobby.

[W4CGP]

Finding anyone with the desire to get into ham radio is hard, at best, to do around here. From my experiences on VHF, I've heard people who apparently didn't want to talk to any kids, and some rightfully so. Being well-mannered is something I feel is important, regardless of age. Deciding who to talk to and who not to talk to because of their age, or just about any other factor is just arrogant and prejudiced, while kids without manners can be frustrating.

It's a two-sided issue, but definitely not in favor of any ham who said he would not talk to kids. It's just absurd.

To KC5CPO, keep it up. We need more people getting young people into the hobby. It's the future of ham radio.

[kc2jga]

I applaude you for your efforts!! I just hope the ham that shot down that QSO has been reading all of these threads. Let's hope this gets to him and other "bad apples" to think before acting on the radio.
73's All
Mike

[WA3ELQ]

I have been an elementary school teacher for over 30 years and have had the opportunity to introduce ham radio to many young people. Fortunately I have seldom run into people like this when I have had kids on the air with me. Almost every ham the kids have met on the air (and in person) has gone out of his/her way to encourage the kids and to give them an exciting on-the-air experience. It truly is a shame and a black mark on our hobby when someone who has gotten so much out of ham radio can't take a few minutes to help the next generation. As a teacher I know that the children I teach are our future. As a ham I know that without young people in our hobby, ham radio will disappear for everyone.

It was because of some local hams that took the time to introduce me to ham radio that I got my start 38 years ago (I was licensed at 15). I wonder if I would have become a ham if these gentlemen had acted like the like this individual.

[KC5SZU]

I wish we had this guys call posted for all to see that he is a ?>)#@: I hate to say there is a lot just like him. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k2lck]

It would have been informative had you remembered the "LID"'s call though. Don't give up, for every lid there are many many more nice guys. Unfortunately, like our news media, the bad guys get the press.. Have an "attaboy" from me.. Ed

[kc2kfw]

I wish to thank you for all your efforts with the children. Whether or not they decide to continue the course into Amateur Radio is irrelevant. What you have done is open the door to a new world for them and for that, I applaud you.

I wish, also, to take up a point on this particular HAM's actions in not talking to children. I saw someone else's post about how you never got their side of the story. Well, although this is true, it is not your fault. He didn't want to talk to children period! This means that he felt his time was to important to be wasted on 'mere youngsters' for their sake. The answer is right there in front of us. We can also derive from this that he puts himself above others. This is a prejudice. Whether toward a particular race, religion, sex or age, I don't know. There is an obvious distaste for children. Who knows, this person may have a serious issue with any of the above. This can also lead one to believe that this persons interest in HAM radio is alterier to why we went into it. Perhaps, to drum up others like him in an effort to do whatever. The point is, he never offered an explanation, according to what the person who posted this has told us.

I suggest the following... If the person who did not wish to talk to children on the air would post a message explaining their actions, I believe a good portion of us would be prepared to listen. I don't think it's fair to post things about this person without their input... Ah, input... That would mean this person would have to communicate to someone... Would they actually do it? I wonder...

Keep up the good work! And, may I offer myself for a sked? I'll always do what I can for the children! Remeber what Jesus said? "Suffer the children unto me..."

73 and God bless! Chris KC2KFW http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[n4smb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd7kgx @ Mar. 08 2003,05:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><snip for brevity>

...this hobby suffers from the "volunteer fireman" syndrome (and yes, I have been a volunteer fireman with a good department... and volunteer fire departments ALSO suffer from this syndrome!).

Too many insecure types think that because they have a license and can operate (to some extent) a radio, that gives them some sort of authority.

I can tell you from personal experience that emergency organizations LOVE volunteers who are sincerely interested in helping, and detest "volunteers" who want to put some sort of "official" insignia on, set up the flashing red light in the windshield, have a police car look-a-like with more antennas than the local Radio Shack, and in general want to lord it over the very people they're supposed to be helping.

<snip for brevity>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I, too, have been in some very good volunteer fire departments. And I agree that there are a few volunteers who may go to the extreme, but my experience is the the vast majority conduct themselves in a dignified and restrained manner ... being totally cognizant that their public appearance & behavior is a direct reflection upon the department that they represent.

I'm a little hesistant to mention this now, but for weeks I've been kicking around an idea to recruit prospective Hams from the ranks of firefighters, both paid and volunteer departments. In the aftermath of 9-11-2001 it just makes sense to entice firefighters into the ranks of Ham radio. In the event of natural disasters and/or future terrorist attacks, dozens, or hundreds, or even thousands of firefighters who are licensed Ham radio operators could prove to be very valuable ... especially in simplex mode in the event that public saftey repeaters or 800 mhz trunking systems are destroyed.

Much has been written about the fact that cellphones and the internet have made Ham radio less attractive to young people, and the population in general. From my own experience, I know that volunteer firefighters are *already* interested in two-way radio, which is half the battle in attracting new people to our hobby. I know of instances where firemen have banded together to form an organization for the purpose of obtaining an FCC license for a VHF business frequency. They used their business band frequency to conduct non-emergency radio traffic within their ranks.

As with any group, volunteer firefighters may have a few bad apples within their ranks. I feel that the bad apples are in the minority. The vast majority of volunteer firefighters are level-headed people who would be an asset to our hobby ... and are worthy of an active recruitment campaign. Because, as I previously mentioned, firefighters are *already* interested in two-way radio.

I have not fully developed this idea to recruit firefighters into the ranks of Ham radio, and I would welcome comments. I do, however, think it would be beneficial to recruit on a national level. Comments are most welcome.

steve/kf4qvv

[jburgess]

If your class is on the weekend, shoot me an email, and I'd be more than happy to set up a schedule with you. I'm 21, so I'm a bit older than your kids, but I'm still closer to their age group than others. My email is kc8oom@greenapple.com. Hope your classes go well!

[K5MAR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MattBeers @ Mar. 08 2003,03:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is the sort of thing that others interpret as arrogance. #SATERN exists in spots across the nation. #There are many places where the Salvation Army exists without SATERN. #I live in one of those places, and hams are not treated as brethren, but rather as the fat, balding, arrogant nerds that, unfortunately, tend to be the louder and more visible ones in our midst. #Don't generalize from a specific experience you have had with them - that's one way that we develop the reputation for arrogance.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm not sure what is so arrogant about saying that the Salvation Army is pro-Amateur Radio. #It may not be true in your area, but it is true, in general, across the United States. #I won't get in to all the different times and locations where the SA and it's affiliated amateurs have stepped up and assisted during and after disasters, but check the website I gave for specifics.

You chastize me for generalizing from my specific experiences, but you are doing the same thing from your specific situation. #Obviously, not all hams are fat, balding, self-important types, so your generalization does not hold. #I say it again, the Salvation Army is pro-Amateur Radio. #There may be specific local situations where the local SA is not receptive to the local hams, but you shouldn't generalize from that.

I think to to state that all amateurs are not welcome at the various agancies because of specific problems at specific locations is arrogant, as well as being a generalization not supported by the facts. #At least here in the ARRL West Gulf region, Amateur Radio enjoys good relations with the various agencies, including the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army, as well as the Oklahoma Department of Civil Emergency Management.

Mark Schneider - K5MAR
AEC, Payne County, OK ARES

[KG4UMB]

Here's a thought:

Have you ever noticed how the people with the elitist attitude about Amateur Radio are the VERY SAME PEOPLE who are constantly whining that not enough people are using it and it will soon die?

If someone had done that to me when I first got licensed back in the summer, I would have left Repeaterland long ago and never looked back.

73 de KG4UMB

[WB9OMC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JJ1BDX @ Mar. 07 2003,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When I got my first ticket at the age of 10 (in Japan third-party traffics are not allowed), many adults then were good people, but some of them didn't deal with me seriously and honestly, and that experience still hurts my feelings. #This sort of miscommunication could happen between different age groups, especially between kids and adults. #I suggest those who elmer kids should let the kids understand that not all adults are good people and that they should be very careful on protecting themselves.

Some OTs may complain to my opinion above, but that's what I've learned from the real ham radio. #Of course I welcome kids and young people as well as the elders, but those people should be well-informed against the possible abuse.

73 de Joe JJ1BDX/3 es AE6LI, now 37 (being ham for 27 years)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Quite well said from the JJ1 station !!!

I can recall quite clearly one of the things that made
my 2 years as a Novice (or as we called it in those
days, the "NoVoice" ticket as at that time Novices
did not have ANY phone segments) utterly miserable
was that it was standard practice for upper class
licensees to use the Novice CW segments as a location
to tune up. And many of them would wait until there
was a slow CW QSO in progress and tune up on
exactly that frequency. Their attitude was that this
was the way to teach Novices about QRM.

Well, it taught a lot of us about QRM. It also taught
us about recording this incidents and turning them over
to the FCC. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

The incident where that lid made the comment about
"not talking to children" is symptomatic of the same
kind of problem - the assumption that anyone who has
been a ham shorter than you or has a lower class license
than you is beneath contempt. I swore that if I ever got
my Extra I would NEVER treat people like that, and now
as an Extra holder, I go the other way. I spend the
majority of my HF time between 28.3 and 28.5, talking
with Novices and Tech+ ops on 10 meters whenever
possible and especially young people whenever possible.

Running off to "Extra ONLY" band segments is, IMHO,
even more inexcusable. A ham who was an Elmer of
mine told me to always remember that the "E in Extra
stands for Elmer" and that those of us who have been
around for a while have a *responsibility* to give some
of our experience back to new hams and encourage
them and make them feel welcome. If we can't do that,
we should turn in our licenses for cancellation and find
something else to do.....

Duane
WB9OMC

[KB2KAB]

HI my name is David. I'm retired and i'm home most of the day on the radio. If you ever need anyone to be on 20 meters. please let me know, and i will try to be there for you and the kids. Just e-mail me. You can find my address on QRZ. Just give me a few days notice and i'll be there for the young people who want to talk on the radio. I live on STATEN ISLAND, ONE OF THE 5 BORO'S OF NEW YORK CITY. IT WOULD BE MY PLEASURE TO TALK TO YOU AND THE KIDS. PLEASE DO NOT BE DISGOURAGED BY NEGATIVE PEOPLE WHO FORGOT WHAT IT WAS, WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED OUT. ALL THE BEST TO YOU AND THE CLUB. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC0NWF]

At my school, I know nobody who is licenced but me. I also hardly know anybody who even knows what a ham radio is. It's pretty sad and your efforts, I hope, can change all of this to keep the great hobby going. Don't mind the few disgraces to the hobby that do not support the main reason of doing it. 73's

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kf4qvv @ Mar. 08 2003,13:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I, too, have been in some very good volunteer fire departments. #And I agree that there are a few volunteers who may go to the extreme, but my experience is the the vast majority conduct themselves in a dignified and restrained manner ... being totally cognizant that their public appearance & behavior is a direct reflection upon the department that they represent. #

I'm a little hesistant to mention this now, but for weeks I've been kicking around an idea to recruit prospective Hams from the ranks of firefighters, both paid and volunteer departments. In the aftermath of 9-11-2001 it just makes sense to entice firefighters into the ranks of Ham radio. #In the event of natural disasters and/or future terrorist attacks, dozens, or hundreds, or even thousands of firefighters who are licensed Ham radio operators could prove to be very valuable ... especially in simplex mode in the event that public saftey repeaters or 800 mhz trunking systems are destroyed.

Much has been written about the fact that cellphones and the internet have made Ham radio less attractive to young people, and the population in general. #From my own experience, I know that volunteer firefighters are *already* interested in two-way radio, which is half the battle in attracting new people to our hobby. I know of instances where firemen have banded together to form an organization for the purpose of obtaining an FCC license for a VHF business frequency. They used their business #band frequency to conduct non-emergency radio traffic within their ranks.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In the volunteer fire departments of which I am aware (and I live in a rural area where there are NO paid departments) I doubt most of the volunteers are "interested" in radio. It is a tool they use to fight fires, to accomplish their mission, and as such, it is concise and precise, not at all "chatty" like ham radio. For most of them, ham radio would be a major step down from the professionalism of Public Safety radio, plus would have the limitation they cannot conduct the business of fighting fires using the hobby radio service.

Aside from that, I think the intent of the comment about volunteer fire personnel was to generalize about hams who are "wannabe" authorities - fire personnel, cops, etc., but who are not going to bother to take the needed training. Instead they will just don their HT and go around pretending they are an authority. On several ham forums this topic has been raised, and in the February or March QST some ham, in an editorial, suggested we even become a quasi-official branch of the government (perhaps like the CAP?) and wear jackets like the DEA, FBI, etc. It is, for many hams, a shortcut to authority to get a ham license and an HT. This takes away from those who actually go to the fire department and police academies or training sessions, who dedicate themselves to REAL public service, instead of just buying an HT and playing cop/fireman.

I think, though, the percentage of hams who actually do that is, thankfully, very tiny. But they are highly noticeable to the public and especially to the authorities who find themselves tripping over would-be cops and emergency personnel who have wandered in and tried to be something they are not.

This type of 'ham' is not a part of the real volunteer fire departments at all. In fact, the departments hope they will not show up at the scene of an emergency! The true volunteers are solid, dedicated people who volunteer their skills -- and training!! - to help their community, and they ask neither that they be noticed nor thanked. Just supported. They have full time jobs, such as construction workers, farmers, truck drivers, etc., and they leave that job, or get out of a warm bed at 3 AM, to save your or my house, for zero pay, and with a lot of their training and equipment at their own personal expense. They are the real heros, not the hams walking around wearing a badge and a vest and proclaiming themselves to be Mr. Hotshot Ham with The HT.

That said, hams come from all walks of life, and if some of them come from the fire deparment, that's fine, too. And they are welcome to the hobby. But I want to thank them for the real service they perform as professionals, not as hams.

73
Ed

[W1GFD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kf4qvv @ Mar. 08 2003,15:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm a little hesistant to mention this now, but for weeks I've been kicking around an idea to recruit prospective Hams from the ranks of firefighters, both paid and volunteer departments. In the aftermath of 9-11-2001 it just makes sense to entice firefighters into the ranks of Ham radio. #In the event of natural disasters and/or future terrorist attacks, dozens, or hundreds, or even thousands of firefighters who are licensed Ham radio operators could prove to be very valuable ... especially in simplex mode in the event that public saftey repeaters or 800 mhz trunking systems are destroyed.

Much has been written about the fact that cellphones and the internet have made Ham radio less attractive to young people, and the population in general. #From my own experience, I know that volunteer firefighters are *already* interested in two-way radio, which is half the battle in attracting new people to our hobby. I know of instances where firemen have banded together to form an organization for the purpose of obtaining an FCC license for a VHF business frequency. They used their business #band frequency to conduct non-emergency radio traffic within their ranks.

As with any group, volunteer firefighters may have a few bad apples within their ranks. #I feel that the bad apples are in the minority. #The vast majority of volunteer firefighters are level-headed people who would be an asset to our hobby ... and are worthy of an active recruitment campaign. #Because, as I previously mentioned, firefighters are *already* interested in two-way radio.

I have not fully developed this idea to recruit firefighters into the ranks of Ham radio, and I would welcome comments. #I do, however, think it would be beneficial to recruit on a national level. #Comments are most welcome.

steve/kf4qvv[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
First let me say great job Dave keep up the good work. Now steve/kf4qvv this is a great idea and one that is currently being done here in Kennebec County Maine, the EC for our area (who just happens to be a full time fire chief) has already recruited at least 3 full time firefighter / paramedics. Myself and a fellow firefighter who were already hams are currently working on recruiting at least 3 more and we are starting a club here for any and all firefighters, EMS, and dispatch personnel who are interested in emergency communications. We are in the process of setting up a 70cm repeater for the club that will be linked to at least two other repeaters giving us an effective communications area of approximately 165miles. So in short try talking to some of your local public safety personnel find out if they are interested, give them a demo (show them all the neat digital modes, repeaters etc…) and try to get them into a class. This is what we did and so far so good. Also in our local high school there is a technology class that features ham radio, they have their own shack in the class room and are given the option of getting their Technician license at the end of the class.

Sean Binette / W1GFD http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KB2SEO]

To:KC5CPO and anyone else with Kids needing a friendly Ham...

Folks, there is NOTHING in our grand hobby/Life pursuit that is more important than getting others interested. If no one wants to talk, you can email me at kb2seo@yahoo.com and I'll get on the air. I don't have a killer station, But I have MANY kids elmered into this hobby.
We do a Boy Scout College we do each year and thankfully, there are folks out there who have been the PERFECT example of Ham Radio.
So take heart if some IDIOT takes that issue.

Best of 73,
"Drewski"
KB2SEO http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kf4jqd]

This must be a nation wide problem. We have the same problem here. No one is interested in getting the younger people into Amateur Radio. There hasn't been any Amateur classes in a couple of years. Use to be one every year!

I hear hams complaining all the time about our hobby is dying. It sure will if we don't get any new and young blood into the hobby! With the advances in other forms of technology, I am sure they wouldn't want to hear a grumpy old man (LID?) on the air.

Remember people, we are competing with other forms of communications now. The Internet with is instant messagers (some with video and voice!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, FRS, MURS, Pagers, and even Cell phones.

It will be the death of the hobby if these people keeps up their bad attitude towards the youth of Amateur Radio.

73,
Andy KF4JQD

[KG4ROL]

First of all, good job of helping the Ham community alive
by introducing the children to the hobby. By all means let's keep this moving. I talk to few people that are in their teenage years that have higher tickets than I do, I have no problem with that. That's wonderful.

Second thing is that, those people out there that make it bad for people like this person here to make the hobby more notice to the community are the bad apples. I just hope people know what they are saying out there.

The mouth is a powerful weapon. If the kids keep hearing this(as well parents, adults, etc.), this hobby will be as I think of it (best describing) low key to none. Keep up the good work people, as will I to mention more about the hobby, from now and for tdown the road.

73,
Chris, KG4ROL
Oviedo, Fl

[W1WA]

We must encourage younger members to become interested.
This type of conduct, is I hope, rare ..
In any hobby we have "clowns" apparently you met one.
Sorry about that. !
Keep trying.
73,
Will Dennis
W1WA

[n2obm]

What was this guy's call? If it was an over-the-air contact this issue is a matter of public record......call an 'ace' and 'ace' and a 'spade' a 'spade'.....IMHO, I don't care who the hell it was, he operated in a fashion contrary to the Amateur's Code. It is time that radio amateurs learn the meaning behind the Code. He could have, with good tact, backed out of the contact......but to state words to that affect....what a disgrace.

[Kg4LMU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC5CPO @ Mar. 06 2003,07:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The other day, a few ham radio friends and I corralled a group of about 30 kids ranging in age from 9-16 and put on a ham radio orientation for them. The purpose was to follow up with Tech classes, get these kids licensed, and start a ham radio club for the youth in our church. We had a great Power Point presentation, with lots of fun stories about the many adventures we had in this great hobby. The kids loved it! They had lots of questions after the presentation too! Then it was time to give them a hands on experience with ham radio. Before the meeting, we had set up an HF radio with a longwire antenna. We tuned around 20 meters for awhile, and finally heard a station calling CQ. ." And that was the end of that! How do you explain to 30 young people that this is a friendly hobby when they just heard for themselves otherwise. Fortunately, that didn't discourage them. We will be starting classes next week and all but one will be in attendance. These young people are the future of ham radio. We older operators aparently think we will live forever. We complain in this and other forums that Ham Radio is dying because it is not getting the positive exposure it needs... yet we fail to look to ourselves and realize that perhaps we are the cause of the negative exposure. Here is our opportunity! Let's not slam the door on the future of Ham Radio. Let's embrace them with open arms.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We responded to that station and explianed to him what we were doing and how we wanted to give a few kids the opportunity to talk. This Operator shot back with "I don't talk to children on the radio.
That was your first mistake everybody and there brother knows most hams on Hf are rude crude and socially unacceptable thats why there on hf if they were on 6m or above they probably wouldnt have there ham licenses. I am suprised you got such a good response on the band its a good thing you werent on 40m but I guess you knew better then that. Well good job anyway and good luck but I would recommend trying something different next goround.

[KD5VHK]

I must also agree that there are lots of arrogant idiots out there that ruin the fun for the newbie.
I am very recently licenced, and was having a nice QSO with a guy across country on the novice/technician voice portion of the 10 meter band. We had both just passed the general exam a few days before and were still getting our feet wet on HF. During the QSO the term "first personal" was used to describe my name, as a like response to the other operator. You should have heard the unidentified coments and responses that came from that. Such as "Huh, Huh, is that some sort of technician technical term?" and "Get off the band and go back to VHF." Also, several operators started keying up on FM and sending a constant CW tone over our xmissions. This continued for the rest of the QSO. I guess in an attempt to "Jam" our conversation.Then, to top that off, after we ended another Ham came in and started to tell me what we did wrong. Now normally I am open to all advice that is given to me, no matter whom it comes from. But this turned out to be more of a lecture instead of helpful advice. I was informed that "that sort of thing may be accepted on VHF, but you technicians will not be accepted talking that way on HF." And also reminded that " I have 42 yrs. as a licenced operator, and I think you got your licence too easily, without having to work at it like I did." This gave me the distinct impression that I was clearly not welcome on HF frequencies. I guess 'cause I wasn't "good" enough. I tried to explain that I was very proud of my recent upgrade, and that it wasn't my fault the rules changed in the past 42 years regarding licenseing. I also explained that at least I was here and trying, and that it was my understanding the hobby needed all the help it could get to help keep what we have. I thanked him for his advice and the QSO ended on a good note, but it made ask several questions.
First of which was:
What happened to the rules-laws regarding unidentified transmissions?
Next was, Where was the professionalism that these arrogant people were complaining about in the first place?
Next was, Why was such an experienced operator hanging around the novice areas pointing out his disapprovals in the first place?
Were these people just cruising the band looking for trouble they could start. I had thought we were in the proper place for such activity/operators.
Then finally. What happened to the "Everyone's welcome, we'd love to have ya" attitude supposedly expressed in amature radio?
Would these people really perfer us to hang up the mic, and let the hobby die along with them?
I must honesly say, as a prevoius post stated, I now have a different attitude about the hobby, and the pride level of being a part of it has lowered some what.

Just trying to give another newbie's first hand experience in the hobby.
This is only an example of a bad experience, and does not reflect the majority of the QSO's I have had. But it is certainly one I will remember.

73's and thanks for your time,
KD5VHK
Kyle

[K8AG]

Wow! #"I don't talk to children on the radio." #Like the op was somehow doing something more important while calling CQ! #CQ means I will talk with anybody. #If you don't want to talk with anybody, send CQDX or CQSS or CQOTHEROLDFARTSWITHBADATTITUDES. #Any chance we get to talk with someone who is encouraging the young to enter the hobby, we need to jump at.
Of course the kids probably learned that, just like in real life, there are morons in ham radio as well.

[W9WHE]

Why not identify this guy's call? After all, according to your story, he DID have an idea of the situation, and STILL chose to be a jerk.

GIVE US HIS CALL!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5VHK @ Mar. 09 2003,20:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And also reminded that " I have 42 yrs. as a licenced operator, and I think you got your licence too easily, without having to work at it like I did."[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yep. Seen it already, and I haven't been on HF for that long.

As for trying to get the nasty person's side of the story, who cares what made him a jerk and why he feels sour? It's easy to speculate as to why he snapped about not wanting to talk to kids. I guess if a person is that bitter about the bad experiences they've had on amateur radio to the point that they would (unwittingly or not) keep the youngsters out of it, then they might consider taking up another hobby.

Of course, maybe this person is just a jerk in every other area of life, too. In that case, it sucks to be him.

As a new op, I've come across a couple of people who carry this attitude around with them- nothing the new ops can do is "good enough" and we'll never be "as good as they are" because we are the products of "dumbed-down" tests and "lowered standards." #Schedule a time to have the kids talk to some friendly people to get an idea of what most of the folks on AR are really like. And teach 'em to turn that VFO dial quickly if you come across one of these problem-attitude cases.

[K6VB]

I think you should publish the callsign(s) of the moron(s) who would not have a QSO with children. For me, I would make sure that none of these callsigns appeared in my logbook.

Those individuals are disgusting as well as a major liability for the future of Ham Radio.

I was very fortunate as a child that some very bright, educated individuals spent some of their spare time with me to elmer me and to feed my quest for knowledge. I will always be grateful to them.

73,
Jim (K6VB)

[n7ujj]

Reminds me of the time:
I had 5 of our high school hams and we set up a station for a 3rd grade Catholic school. A little talk and we turned on the HF rig and tuned through a few non ham frequencies to show the kids all the different kind of signals. We pauses at on clear broadcast staton with a religous theame. The lady announcer the said, " and now a letter fron a reader. ' Is oral sex a ...' ".

A quick spin of the dial; an embarrased look toward the teacher; and my high school kids (and a few third graders) trying not to bust a gut.

Communications with real human beings can sure be a suprise.

I've had many contacts in front of class groups. I'd say less than 1% have been unpleasant, and many have been truly pheonominal. All-in-all, we are a very positive, enthuastic, intelligent group. I've planned contacts, but I still get a greater kick calling CQ. You just never know what the next few minutes will be like...

[wa2isc]

I got my license in 1958, when I was 11 years old. I ran into a few of these crusty curmudgeons that are being so thoroughly discussed here. They are everywhere, and probably always have been.

That said, I must confess that over the ensuing 44 years I have heard very few such openly hostile contacts. While I spend most of my time on CW, I still have a fair amount of time logged on SSB. I've heard all about the 75 meter crowd, and the 14.313 morass, but have seldom actually heard much of it first hand.

My response in 1958 was to work my butt off to try and be accepted. It never occurred to me (or the 6 buddies I helped recruit into the hobby) to whine incessantly about it.

Today's world seems to present two options; demand acceptance, or listen to the eternal whining. Ham radio certainly needs to grow, but not by reducing all to the lowest common denominator. Childern need to be enticed into the hobby, not kidnapped. Ham Radio is what it is because hams want to know "why" and "how". Those answers come from trying, failing, and trying again.

Tell the kids that some adults (I assume that this rude ham was an adult) are like that, and spin the dial. Of the 600,000+ hams out there, a few are going to be ...sorry can't think of a nice way of saying it; fill in the blank as you wish. New hams are going to find some resistance, especially if they are looking for instant acceptance. This is not a religious order, and all isn't sweetness and life. look for the good ones, forget the idiots (see, I found the right word), and go forward. Learning is part of the reward.

Or, you could drop down to the CW bands. I've only heard one .-.. .. -.. in all my 44 yeas. Keep trying, we do need to get the mystery of radio out in the open again.

Good luck.

[KA8CFC]

If that ever happens again, just be sure to point out that there are some people who's only existence is to serve as a bad example. This operator is one of them.

In any group of people there are bad examples. Point it out and go on to the next contact. One idiot should not make the session into a disaster. Yes the people at the demonstration will remember the idiot, However, if you play it right they will remember the rest of the contacts as well.

Truly, if they have any interest in the hobby, the overall experience should be motivating.

Keep up the good work!

Bob KA8CFC

[KAMR]

This would be the same kind of prick that feels because his children are grown or better yet he wasn't able to reproduce, shouldn't have to pay property taxes because the bulk of the disbursment is applied to the public school system.

Although adults just like us gladly paid into the fund to educate us and him,even though they didn't get their money's worth that was spent on him and those like him.

Miserable pricks like him grow to be old, wrinkled, sour and lonely and all his neighbors hate his guts. And all the kids in the neighborhood torment him tirelessly and I am glad they do.

[n0ov]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC5CPO @ Mar. 05 2003,08:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The other day, a few ham radio friends and I corralled a group of about 30 kids ranging in age from 9-16 and put on a ham radio orientation for them. The purpose was to follow up with Tech classes, get these kids licensed, and start a ham radio club for the youth in our church. We had a great Power Point presentation, with lots of fun stories about the many adventures we had in this great hobby. The kids loved it! They had lots of questions after the presentation too! Then it was time to give them a hands on experience with ham radio. Before the meeting, we had set up an HF radio with a longwire antenna. We tuned around 20 meters for awhile, and finally heard a station calling CQ. We responded to that station and explianed to him what we were doing and how we wanted to give a few kids the opportunity to talk. This Operator shot back with "I don't talk to children on the radio." And that was the end of that! How do you explain to 30 young people that this is a friendly hobby when they just heard for themselves otherwise. Fortunately, that didn't discourage them. We will be starting classes next week and all but one will be in attendance. These young people are the future of ham radio. We older operators aparently think we will live forever. We complain in this and other forums that Ham Radio is dying because it is not getting the positive exposure it needs... yet we fail to look to ourselves and realize that perhaps we are the cause of the negative exposure. Here is our opportunity! Let's not slam the door on the future of Ham Radio. Let's embrace them with open arms.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Glad they are hanging in there -- you're right. These folks are the ones that will be operating long after we're gone.

If some of the new hams need some ideas for some antennas, check out the resource tabs of our Field Day site. (http://webpages.charter.net/fieldday)

[WB4ILS]

Its a shame that you and the kids were treated that way. I trustee a high school ARC and every week we chat with the YL system on 14.332. They welcome talking to the kids.

Get your club started and then tune in the YL System, you and the kids will be welcomed with open arms. And you can also catch our school club on the system every teusday at 1530 central time. Don't give up, we need all the young people we can get in the wonderful hobby.
Steve

[WL7LZ]

Please post this guys callsign. I wont answer CQs to him either. Anyone who states "I dont speak to kids over the air"... some amatuer operator he is. PLEASE POST HIS CALLSIGN. If I have worked him.. Ill tear up his card.

Helping kids get into radio gets them involved. I help out on Scouts JOTA and anything else. Kids are our future and amatuer radio makes them all that better and visa-versa.

I remember my elmer who let me sit and run the radio in Independence Kansas during field day. He sat on his cot in the radio van... and when I asked him if he wanted his radio back he said... no your doing fine... Ill just sit and watch. He got me hooked and licensed. Thanks to him I turned out that much better. He unfortunately was injured during a field day taking down a tower. He was attop it and the support broke and it fell over with him paralyzing him.

Remember, we must help out kids... amatuer radio is a great way to do it. Gets them involved and helps them overcome the fear of meeting new people. Get a kid on the radio. I think its good for the hobby.

73 Mark
WL7LZ
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/ham_gifs/7/wl7lz.jpg

[n4smb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1GFD @ Mar. 08 2003,21:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kf4qvv @ Mar. 08 2003,15:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm a little hesistant to mention this now, but for weeks I've been kicking around an idea to recruit prospective Hams from the ranks of firefighters, both paid and volunteer departments.

In the aftermath of 9-11-2001 it just makes sense to entice firefighters into the ranks of Ham radio. #In the event of natural disasters and/or future terrorist attacks, dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of firefighters who are licensed Ham radio operators could prove to be very valuable ... especially in simplex mode in the event that public saftey repeaters or 800 mhz trunking systems are destroyed.

Much has been written about the fact that cellphones and the internet have made Ham radio less attractive to young people, and the population in general. #From my own experience, I know that volunteer firefighters are *already* interested in two-way radio, which is half the battle in attracting new people to our hobby. I know of instances where firemen have banded together to form an organization for the purpose of obtaining an FCC license for a VHF business frequency. They used their business #band frequency to conduct non-emergency radio traffic within their ranks.

<snip for brevity>

I have not fully developed this idea to recruit firefighters into the ranks of Ham radio, and I would welcome comments. #I do, however, think it would be beneficial to recruit on a national level. #Comments are most welcome.

steve/kf4qvv[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
First let me say great job Dave keep up the good work. Now steve/kf4qvv this is a great idea and one that is currently being done here in Kennebec County Maine, the EC for our area (who just happens to be a full time fire chief) has already recruited at least 3 full time firefighter / paramedics. Myself and a fellow firefighter who were already hams are currently working on recruiting at least 3 more and we are starting a club here for any and all firefighters, EMS, and dispatch personnel who are interested in emergency communications. We are in the process of setting up a 70cm repeater for the club that will be linked to at least two other repeaters giving us an effective communications area of approximately 165miles. So in short try talking to some of your local public safety personnel find out if they are interested, give them a demo (show them all the neat digital modes, repeaters etc…) and try to get them into a class. This is what we did and so far so good. Also in our local high school there is a technology class that features ham radio, they have their own shack in the class room and are given the option of getting their Technician license at the end of the class.

Sean Binette / W1GFD http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Reply to: Sean Binette / W1GFD

Thanks for your positive feedback, Sean. I'm glad to hear that others recognize that an active recruitment campaign aimed at firefighters (and other public safety organizations) have great potential to strengthen the future of the Ham radio hobby.

Additionally: if police/fire/rescue repeater systems are damaged or destroyed, there is a genuine positive benefit of having large numbers of emergency services personel licensed and equiped with Ham radios (especially simplex).

It sounds as if Kennebec County in Maine is headed in the right direction. I wish you and your associates much success.

steve/kf4qvv

[kc5pwq]

go dave
i have ben licenced for 8 years and have been very involved in ham radio from day one. have taucht class for 6 years and have taught kids and adults alike. we have help around 60 people get their licence have been a ve and have tested around 50 of these people. 30 of these have been age 10 to 18 and have made great ham keep working with kids they are our future it is great working with kids teaching them what us old folks know so thy can carry on what we have started and take it to a new level . keep backing our youth
Gerald kc5pwq http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[robhoitt]

Whew, good thing you didn't mention who that lid you talked to was.
While those who know me will understand my position on matters like this, let me offer you a suggestion:
If you have 5 or more youngsters over 14, you might consider establishing them as a Venture Scout Crew. Unlike traditional Boy Scouting, Venturing is Co-Ed and allows for the youth to be members up to 21. It gives your church a tangible benefit in that any activities you partake in will automatically be protected by liability insurance. Plus you can build a structure in that the kids who have earned their tickets can elmer those who want to.
Remember too that each October we have the Jamboree Of The Air scheduled in which Scouts from all over the world meet on the air. The kids love it, they can earn a cool patch and it is a great outrach from the local ham clubs.
Best of luck on your endeavors, and 73!

Rob Hoitt, KB1FSK
Asst. Section Manager - Scouting Relations
ARRL - New Hampshire Section

[KC8TGS]

Hello all,
My name is Ben, I am 13 years old and a General licensee. If you want some friendly, God oriented hams to talk to, try checking in to the Maranatha Net on 7233 kHz at 4http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0 PM. I am sure that Barry (KC8IOO) the NCS would like to talk to some young guys who want to be hams.

73-de Ben kc8tgs http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N1NKM]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8TGS @ Mar. 13 2003,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hello all,
My name is Ben, I am 13 years old and a General licensee. #If you want some friendly, God oriented hams to talk to, try checking in to the Maranatha Net on 7233 kHz at 4 : 00PM. #I am sure that Barry (KC8IOO) the NCS would like to talk to some young guys who want to be hams.

73-de Ben kc8tgs[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
4pm in which time zone? ( That's why UTC is used. ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I just tuned in at 4pm (Eastern) and there is a discussion about cars between two elderly-soundling gentlemen. Doesn't sound like a Maranatha! Net to me! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Hehe!

I am a Christian, and would love to find other Christians on the air... especially fine young folks like yourself! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I know about the Bible Fellowship Net, but that starts at 6am, and so does my job at a local Christian radio station... that leaves me out of THAT one. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

As for talking with young people on the air, I would love to! A few months back, there was a gentleman doing the same thing... demonstrating Ham Radio to a group of kids, and I responded... I enjoyed it like anything! Some of them were so cute with the things they said! I really enjoy that kind of thing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I did my best to tell them what the weather was like here, the colors of the trees, etc. (they were down South where it was warm) It was very enjoyable and I had a lot of fun. I hope to be able to do it again!

GOD BLESS and keep up the good work!

73de N1NKM
Willie...
www.mymorninglight.org/ham

[w5wjp]

Post that SOB's call......See if very many adults want to talk to him.

[w7act]

Here in our local area we have fellow ham NW7US Tomas who I am sure some of you know as he is Propagation Writer for several of Amatuer Radio Periodicals. Many of you may not know this, but almost all of his family are licensed hams and he is quite active in setting up Club Stations at several schools in our area and getting the students in these schools active in ham radio. As a result Tomas and his family have become active in the Jefferson County Amatuer Radio Club and a number of the members of the JCARC have also taken the School Clubs under our wing and are helping with some of the Clubs functions. So at least in our area the local Hams are willing to be Elmers at least on alimited basis.

[KD5TOE]

You know, it sounds like this guy who decided he doesn't talk to kids deserves a nice and descriptive letter from someone about why kids are important to the amateur radio community. I myself being a youth ham know that some of the older guys can be mean. Personally, I think this guy needs to pull the j pole out of his rear end and wake up to what the future of amateur radio is. If he wants to be like that, fine. Be an old hermit, but not on HAM bands. I'm tired of hearing, "I don't talk to kids" or "Your not worthy of being on the air." On my license it says PRIMARY station privledges. Not secondary to hermits. Wake up, clear the air for the youth. Pave the road for their future. Think back to when you got your license. I just am so tired of hearing youth being pushed around on the air. I'm sorry, but this is rediculous. Lets all play nicely children and hermits!
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Andy Vrabel-KD5TOE
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Plano A.R.K.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # U.S.A. Freedom Corps
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # U.S.A. Citizen Corps
P.S. : If you think youth aren't capable of great achievements, think again. I'm working towards a presidential award and am already one fifth of the way there. WAKE UP!

[ad5td]

As a new "Tech" have seen this problem of contempt for others on the air and in person. All I can say is, there are bad apples in every bunch. #Each has his/her own story. #

I have not found a shortage of "elmers" in my area or any other for that matter. #One of mine is in Florida! #I use e-mail to communicate (I have no HF priviledges). #Almost all of the Hams in this area are willing and able to help anyone wanting to get into ham radio. #

Ilook out into the room of one of our local club meetings (we had 60 people at the last meeting!) and a lot of the faces are less than half my age (48) and more are getting their ticket every time we test.

As for getting kids into our hobby/lifestyle/vocation, here in Corpus Christi, we have an active effort to bring young people into the hobby. #Almost every Saturday on the Lexington aircraft carrier, Larry N5XCI teaches "radio merit badge" to some 20-40 boyscouts. #He has been a tireless advocate of amature radio. #I hope he will continue in his efforts to bring others into the hobby/service that I love so much.

I commend your efforts and wish you all the luck in bringing kids a sample of what we enjoy. #

My grand father tried to get me into ham radio when I was 12. #I wish I had listened to him, I have missed so much.

73,
KD5UJX

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Mar. 08 2003,02:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">how long are they suppose to put up with this" ME GENERATION" attitude and the whining and crying , before they throw up their hands in disgust.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
He is certainly entitled to his opinion, nobody is forced to talk on the air. But where do you think kids pick up bad manners from? It's learned from folks like this one who have no tact or respect for others.

Consider this too - when it happens on HF, how many people do you think will be able to hear this?

Here's an idea. We'll invite a dozen PhD-level RF design engineers to go lecture this guy and belittle his knowledge of radio. Perhaps find a bully from his childhood years to tag along too.

Most likely this gentleman did not have any children of his own. I doubt a parent would have behaved this way toward another parent's child.

[kd5mhm]

I too have had problems with my fellow hams (such as on Kids' day) being unwilling to talk to children. I'd suggest that we suggest to everyone that they could say something such as:

Tell them you only have a few minutes to give but go ahead. (avoids the complaint of having to talk to 30 kids for 2 minutes or more each)
or
OK, I can give you NN minutes before I've got to go, I was just in here for a short QSO.
or
I was hoping to contact my friend for a fast QSO, I'm sorry I've got to go and can't participate right now.

Also, I found it helped to begin the QSO and explain that the children have been trained in making a QSO and proper etiquette, and they know to be brief on the air. Just like on kids day, I have a standard bit of info for each child to say, and they must practice it ahead of time (my name is ..... my age is..... and thanks for my first QSO!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Finally, I had one very sarcastic ham say some cruel stuff, so I kindly replied that all the children were listening to your every word and call sign, would he please tell the kids that most hams are much friendlier than he was, especially to kids. It must have hit home because he apoligized to the kids and explained that he'd had a bad day ending with a speeding ticket and was upset. He then let them go ahead, so they all asked him about his day and the speeding ticket, and everyone felt better...

Ya never know.
Scott

[ad8bc]

I remember earning my Novice and Tech tickets back in 1989 and 1990 when I was 15. I pretty much hung around in the 2M band, saving enough money to pay $40 to join a repeater group which ran one heck of a cool machine with voice mail, reverse patch, and remote bases. After joining, I was immediately shunned by the OM's who had been long time members. We had a few local cases of intentional interference, which were immediately blamed on me and a few other youth. I never renewed my membership to that repeater group, and to this day my feelings remain hurt over those experiences, although I don't carry grudges. Now I am on the board of a big radio association and repeater group, and I always make sure to welcome the new hams, especially the youth of the area, and invite them to join us on the air.

I wish you luck in keeping those kids interested. 73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-- Bill AD8BC

[WD8PCU]

Hello! Everyone.

I view Amateur Radio as a blessed priviledge. I have been playing with Ham Radio for over 43 years. I was
around 16 years old when I first became interested in
the Hobby. It certainly is a very genuine and beautiful
Hobby. I was blessed during my Amateur Radio years
with having two Military Colonels that inspired me.
Well it turns out that the Senior One that gave me the
code classes; it so turned out that when I got my first
Novice License that when I received my call letters they
ended up being his initials. So despite all of those Hams that disregard the feelings of all other Hams there are
millions more that are truly dedicated to a hobby that
is one of sharing with each other. This is a hobby that
requires devotion to the sincere principles of Physics and
Science and Electronics. These are pristine and highly respected disciplines that we all pursued a serious course
of study in order to achieve the goals that we had set for
ourselves individually. What a sad state it is if we ever
forget where we were before we reached the destination
of where we are now. It is an HONOR and a PRIVILEDGE
that should be held ever so dear to each and every one of
us. The more that we give thanks for what we have earned then that when shared with others in truly friendly discourse will be a giant step in expanding the
number of our fellowship. God bless this beautiful Hobby.

[w3dub]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ad8bc @ Mar. 18 2003,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I remember earning my Novice and Tech tickets back in 1989 and 1990 when I was 15. #I pretty much hung around in the 2M band, saving enough money to pay $40 to join a repeater group which ran one heck of a cool machine with voice mail, reverse patch, and remote bases. #After joining, I was immediately shunned by the OM's who had been long time members. #We had a few local cases of intentional interference, which were immediately blamed on me and a few other youth. #I never renewed my membership to that repeater group, and to this day my feelings remain hurt over those experiences, although I don't carry grudges. #Now I am on the board of a big radio association and repeater group, and I always make sure to welcome the new hams, especially the youth of the area, and invite them to join us on the air. #

I wish you luck in keeping those kids interested. #73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-- Bill AD8BC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have only been licensed for a few short days... only passed my Tech on 3/9.. and I am already talking up the hobby.. especially to my younger brother. I even left my Tech study guide with him.. who knows, not going to force it on him, but he just may pick it up and start looking through it and developing an interest in it.

And who knows, he may talk to his friends, get them interested if he does.. and so on and so forth.

I think the most important advertisment for any product is word-of-mouth... it really is the most effective. We must remember at all times that people may be listening... or have questions they may want to ask. We should never "slam the door" on anybody.

[wq7j]

It really rankles me that even though our ranks seem to be slowing or even declining http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif in numbers, there are those few short-sighted individuals who always seem to wind up causing harm to our hobby. #I was very fortunate in my whole experience as a ham not to have encountered too many of these types of individuals. #Now that I have upgraded to General (I checked the FCC database and found out I was granted my upgrade today) I will soon be able to go on the HF bands and seek out those newcomers to our hobby and help show all that is good about Amateur Radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif