No response to slow CW CQ

[KD0HFZ]

I have tried slow CW CQ's for WAY too long, ive tried 20 and 40 at all ends of the CW portion. Why am I getting no response?

[NJ7L]

Post is no longer available.

[NS8N]

Have you checked your antenna? Seriously, I find CW operators to be very accommodating. Most are so eager to QSO that they would never pass up a CQ. Pick a freq on 20 or 40 meters, I will work you right now.

[W0IS]

Well, there are a number of possible explanations. It's possible that you're not getting out. It's also possible that people are coming back to you, but you're not hearing them for some reason. I think that's what happened when I was starting out, back when dirt was new.

I would recommend starting out on 40 meters, and then go to 20 meters when you have a few QSO's under your belt. The best frequency to try would be just above 7100. If nobody is there, try somewhere between 7050-7060. I would avoid the lower part of the band for now. However, if you hear someone calling CQ there, it wouldn't hurt to call them back at your speed, and almost everyone will slow down for you.

When you call CQ, it's best to stick with the "3x3" call:

CQ CQ CQ DE KD0HFZ KD0HFZ KD0HFZ
CQ CQ CQ DE KD0HFZ KD0HFZ KD0HFZ
CQ CQ CQ DE KD0HFZ KD0HFZ KD0HFZ K

Actually, if you're starting out really slow, two times might actually be better than three. But don't repeat it more than three times, or your customers will get frustrated and look for someone else.


If you want to try a sked, I'd be happy to give it a try. I'm in Minnesota, so for 40 meters, during the day would be the best time to try it. Unfortunately, I won't be around this weekend, but if you want to try it next week, I'd be happy to give it a try.

[KD0HFZ]

I dont know if it matters, but my ALC meter is pegged when I transmit. I cant do a sked right now, but when i get home from cross country practice and the local radio club meeting we could do a sked.

[KC7YRA]

I too noticed this.

I called and called and CALLED before I got an answer. I have a very low noise floor and a decent antenna. I was perfectly able to make SSB contacts so I am sure people were hearing me. I heard tons of traffic but it was a little to fast for me (little too fast was me being too polite to myself :D)

Just keep going. I called 10-12 times between QSOs. It seemed to get a little better once I got up to near 10 WPM. I think 5 WPM was scaring folks away. Could also be my choppy sending LOL

Good luck. Nice ops are out there. They will find you. Keep plugging away. But as others stated, make sure your signal is nice and clean.

Brad

[K0RGR]

I'm not sure if the ALC meter means much on CW - I suspect not, but on some rigs it can indicate issues with SWR. Modern radios generate CW by injecting a tone into the SSB transmitter, so I would expect there might be an ALC reading.

What about SWR on the antenna?

What kind of rig are you running and how much power is it putting out?

Is your antenna a wet noodle at the bottom of an iron rain barrel?

Are you hearing signals?

Is the RIT control on? It might be making you listen where you aren't. If there's an XIT control on the rig, make sure that's off, too.

How are you sending CQ? A 3 X 3 X 3 call is probably overkill, but in any case you should never send a longer one than that. I mean:

CQ CQ CQ de KD0HFZ KD0HFZ KD0HFZ
CQ CQ CQ de KD0HFZ KD0HFZ KD0HFZ
CQ CQ CQ de KD0HFZ KD0HFZ KD0HFZ K

Note: end with K, not PSE K , not KN, not SK. If you're calling -
CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ de KD0HFZ KN
I might not answer you, either. Have you read the section in the ARRL Operating Manual about operating CW?

Have you tried answering other people's CQ's? Do you know how to get on the other person's frequency? Does your rig have a 'spot' function so you can see where you are in relation to them?

I agree with the previous opinions, you should focus on 40 as it's an all-night band now, too, and should offer lots of opportunities in the daytime. Saturday morning is also a great time for 40. If the sunspots were more active, we could probably work on 40 in the morning, but we might be a little too close as it is now.

[W0EA]

Don't get too worked up about it Joey, I'll talk to you tonight at the meeting. Try calling CQ while qrp...takes a LOOONG time sometimes! Good thing is you have a keyer and can just let it go for a while without thinking too much about it.

For what it's worth, if I were you, I'd cut that 160m Vee for 40m and use that, it'd work better that way.

See you in a couple hours

[K3STX]

What do you call slow CW? I would think a CQ at 10-13 wpm would get a response every time (try between 7050-7125 kc).

paul

[KD0HFZ]

Icom 706MKIIG, 100W 20M dipole is the setup. I heard a russian calling cq, and i answered him and he came back to me but was going too fast for me to copy, so i let him resume the pileup. So at least I know my signal is getting out. Maybe some CW ops just arent patient enough.:confused:

[K3STX]

If that 20 meter dipole uses coax as a feedline you really can not use it on 40 meters, it is a 20 meter antenna. Let me guess, the Russian guy was on 20 meters and most of your slow-speed QSO attempts have been on 40 meters?

If you can send 10-13 wpm there is NO REASON people would not answer you on 40 meters if they can hear you. You are a General, I assume you make SSB contacts easily with these same antennas? I don't think your speed is the problem, I suspect your signal on 40 meters is weaker than you think and there are not many ops looking for slow-speed QSOs on 20 meters. I have NEVER heard a 5 wpm QSO on 20 meters. Hope this helps.

Once again, how slow is "slow"?

paul

[KD0HFZ]

My speed is about 5-7 WPM, and for 40 and the lower freq's I have a 160m inverted V.

[K3STX]

My speed is about 5-7 WPM, and for 40 and the lower freq's I have a 160m inverted V.

That's pretty slow. I think this speed CW is up between 7100 and 7150 kc, in the old "novice" band. Nothing like that on 20, and I don't think on 80 either. 40 is certainly the band. In your evenings it should be do-able. I suggest you keep practicing by LISTENING to QSOs, build up your speed, and keep at it. To be perfectly honest, for people who are used to communicating at 25 wpm the jump down to 5 wpm is pretty difficult. But you are young, you will get fast quickly. When I was 16 I went from zero to 50+ wpm in about 6 months.

You can also send your CQ at 10 wpm but tell the other guy to QRS his SENDING to about 5-7 wpm. This will at least increase your chance someone will ANSWER you.

If your speed is 5-7 wpm, let's just SAY it is 10 wpm, send at 10 wpm and see how much you get. If you get that the guy is located in "BILMINGSAM", you can bet its Birmingham, name of "LARLY" is Larry, etc...

I think people ARE hesitant to answer a 5 wpm QSO. In the OLDEN days, when I was also 15, there were HUNDREDS of people (thousands) in the same boat as you, but we were all on 40 or 80 every evening sending CW at 5 wpm. It was easy to make a QSO, but with the idiotic elimination of the Morse requirement people who want to learn are basically left on their own.

BTW, the ARRL website has W1AW "code practice" mp3 files at ALL speeds, I loaded the fast ones on my iPod. You can do the same, get more practice.

Hope this helps. Obviously you want to join the CW club, we need all the members we can get!!

73 OM,

paul

[KD0HFZ]

Hope this helps. Obviously you want to join the CW club, we need all the members we can get!!

Yes, there probably arent a lot of new hams out there eager to learn CW. I wanted to get it learned before school started so i wouldnt put it on the shelf until i had a break. I was getting tired of practicing, i was itching to get on the air! When i practice at lcwo.net, i have the character speed set at 15wpm and the effective speed set a 5wpm, so i can recognize the chracters fast but not the spacing in between them.

[WB9JTK]

Using a "160 m inverted V" on 40m is probably most of your problem. I expect that the SWR is 100:1 or worse. If you are feeding it with coax it won't matter what kind of "tuner" you use, all the power will be lost in the coax. So try another antenna.

To get answers to CQ, first "do no wrong" ( ???? ) I mean don't call CQ 100 times then send your call 14 times. As suggested earlier, CQ 3 times, callsign twice and then listen.

Send NEATLY. I would much rather work a guy running 3 wpm sending neatly than a guy sending 20 wpm sloppily. (I hardly ever answer someone using a "bug" - most of them send so badly it's indescribable.)

If you are learning to copy at 5 wpm with the letters sent at 15, then you will probably learn to send neatly also. I think this method is the best. I think you will learn to NOT run your letters together.

Also, the comment about 'no slow code on 20' is pretty much true. So until we ever get sunspots again, 40 or 80 is your best shot.

On 40 try 7.112 in that area. 80 m .... well, I don't know... haven't been on 80 in so long and with all the frequency allocation changes, I dont know whats going on there.

Another technique is to copy a QSO in progress where you can copy at least enough to get a callsign (or both) out of it. Then when they sign off, give one of them a call at the speed you are comfortable with. Though I like to operate at 35 to 40, I will answer a slow call if it is sent neatly (and I have time).

OH... and do NOT repeat everything the other gentleman sent. When another ham comes back to me with "OK on your QTH in Florida, OK on your Name is dofus, OK on my RST is 499 OK on ..." I usually won't listen for the third "ok on your" I am gone by then.

You may get discouraged occasionally while trying to become 'proficient' at CW. However let me encourage you. In 37 years of operating I have never heard profanity or a religious fight on CW.

[KD0HFZ]

The tuner loads it up to a perfect 1:1, but that doesnt mean it is a perfect radiator. The only other option i have is a 20m dipole, and they both seem to work fine on SSB. I will see if i can put up a 40, but im not sure if we have the space for that kind of thing.

[K3STX]

If they work on SSB they are fine. But you are probably losing 90% of your 100 watts into that coax on 40.

paul

[KD0HFZ]

Well, everyone has to compromise...I did make a stateside CW contact after i heard him call CQ, but i still could not copy him. I guess I will just keep on calling.

[K5DE]

I can't tell you what will work for you, but I can tell you what works for me. Long ago, I could hang with all but the best of them but over a twenty-six year hiatus, can't yet -- I'm still working fairly slow code. Since coming back to amateur radio a few weeks ago the vast majority of my contacts have been with 5 watts out and the majority have been in response to my CQ. I call "CQ CQ CQ de N4YQP N4YQP K" and that's it. I pause to listen, then repeat. Normally I get a response within four or five calls. My K1 at 5 watts is into a homebrew dipole that tunes slightly below the band (yeah, I know, a true ham would fix it), so goes through a tuner. It's up around 30' to 35'.

At a guess (don't know for sure since I normally use a straight key) I send around 10-12 wpm (with gusts to 15). I often hear QSOs in progress slower than mine, and have even slowed down from my norm to answer a CQ.

Join SKCC and start looking for either a CQ or an open area to call CQ around 7.110-7.120. If you are getting out, you will get a response even at 5 WPM. If you don't get a response, I'd suspect you are not getting out.

Good luck. If I hear you (I'm only on during the weekends), I'll respond.

Rick
N4YQP

edit: okay, I exaggerated on the "all but the best of them" part, but I had crossed 25 wpm. :)

[KD0HFZ]

Finally, someone with a K1. I know this is a tough question, but how do you like it? Any compliments criticsms?

[K0RGR]

I'm assuming the 160 meter antenna is coax fed. You should be able just add a 40 meter dipole to the same feeders - should be around 66 feet long, but the presence of the 160 meter antenna will load it down considerably, and you'll have to prune it to get it to resonate on 40. You can improve it's operation by bringing the ends of the 40 meter dipole down to separate tiedowns, ideally at right angles to the 160 meter antenna. You'll also have to prune your 160 meter antenna to get it to resonate in the band again.

Coax-fed dipoles will work on the odd numbered harmonics of the fundamental. I don't know what frequency your 160 meter antenna is cut for, but let's assume it's 1.850 Mhz.. 1.85 X 3 - 5.55 Mhz. - might work on 60 meters. 1.85 X5 = 9.25 Mhz. - much too high for 40. So, unless you're feeding that thing with ultra-low-loss heliax, you are certainly losing a lot in the feedline and probably in the tuner, too. Your new 40 meter add-on element should also work on 15.

You could change to open wire feeders all the way back to your tuner in the shack. That would be big improvement, too. Another option would be to fold your 160 meter vee into an 80 meter full-wave loop. That will work on all harmonics, not just the odd ones, when fed with coax. You'd lose 160 in the bargain, though.

[NS8N]

Most people feed dipoles with ladder-line. With that said however, everything I've read has said that coax loss is greater at VHF and higher and negligible on the low bands.

Anyways, I completely disagree with previous comments regarding 20 meters. While it is the "premiere" DXing band and also while many do not want slow CW ops on this band, it is still VERY workable via slow code. In fact, when I started out on CW (mere months ago) my only antenna was for 20 meters and I was around 5 wpm. I made MANY contacts at this early stage but found that speed improved drastically in only about 10 QSOs.

So again I say, not many if any are ignoring you. You are either not radiating a good signal or perhaps are sending very poor CW where no one can understand what you are sending. It also pays to know the hangout spots such as the SKCC frequencies.

Very true fact: I use a hamstick attached to my apartment balcony. I am pretty high up, so I am at an advantage to many because of this. Anyways, I have NEVER not had my CQ answered on an SKCC freq. It may take me a couple times of 3x3, but it is ALWAYS answered. Someone is always listening. So if you are radiating a signal at all and are sending proper CW, someone will answer you.

[AI3V]

I dont know if it matters, but my ALC meter is pegged when I transmit. I cant do a sked right now, but when i get home from cross country practice and the local radio club meeting we could do a sked.


To much alc can cause key clicks, Find the drive parameter for cw, turn it down all the way, then back up till you have full rf power, you should see little or no alc.

The alc should stay at zero until the power is 100 w, then you will see the alc start to come up with additional drive.

And keep trying, Even with my incredible "loudest I've ever heard on amateur radio" is the usual signal report I receive(barefoot of course!)signal, and legendary magnetic personality, sometimes I have to call cq for several seconds before the pileup for Etna PA gets completely out of control:rolleyes:

Rege

[W0EA]

Joey, I know we've already talked about it, but remember, even if you're going to call somebody who is going faster than you, simply call him at a speed you are comfortable with. Just because he's going faster doesn't mean he wont slow down (he should if he's a decent operator)

Keep trying, you'll get one you're comfortable with in no time

[KD0HFZ]

I havent really tried to answer anyone, ive just been calling CQ most of the time. I did get my keng, so its not as long to send all of my CQ. I did get a little more patient and called CQ more and ended up with 3 contacts for the day. Im thinking that when I get my speed up Ill probably get more answers, but for now i guess im doing ok. Ill just keep calling.

[K5DE]

>but how do you like it[K1]? Any compliments criticsms?

No complaints, but it is a fairly complex kit -- not critically so, but you do have to pay attention because you are making hundreds of solder connections, some in very close quarters. When complete, though, it is a solid radio. You will get quite a few 559, 459, 569 type signals because you are QRP, but I think it is a great radio.

Rick

[KD0HFZ]

>but how do you like it[K1]? Any compliments criticsms?

No complaints, but it is a fairly complex kit -- not critically so, but you do have to pay attention because you are making hundreds of solder connections, some in very close quarters. When complete, though, it is a solid radio. You will get quite a few 559, 459, 569 type signals because you are QRP, but I think it is a great radio.

Rick
Thanks for the feedback, I've been looking at some reviews, they all looked pretty good. I've been thinking about getting the K1 for my QRP operation.

[KU0G]

Joey, et al...

The North American Traffic and Awards Net operates a CW net on Thursday evenings local time on 3575 kHz at 0200z. The net is primarily an awards type of net however we DO keep the speed down as we have several participants that are boning up on their Morse! Give us a try.

Listen for CQ NATA DE <NCS CALLSIGN> (usually sent 3X) followed by "QNI? QTC? K"

QNI = We're accepting check-ins -or- I am checking into the net
QTC? = Do you have any traffic for the net?

To check in do this: "<NCS CALLSIGN> DE KD0HFZ JOEY IA QNI QRU K"

QRU = I have no written traffic for the net

We welcome anyone/everyone to our nets (see website below for more information). Most QSO's between net participants will look like this:

Sender: <callsign> DE <callsign> UR 599 599 IN <state> K
Responder: <callsign> DE <callsign> QSL 599 TNX UR 599 599 IN <state> K
1ST stn: <callsign> DE <callsign> QSL 599 TNX BTN K (BTN = "BACK TO NET")

Try starting on one of our SSB nets (7195 kHz at 7 pm Central daily, 7195 kHz at 11p Wednesday, 3905 kHz at 9:45p daily ex. Sunday and Thursday local time. You'll pick up the procedures there pretty quickly and can then transfer that to our CW nets.

We also offer nets on PSK-31 on both 40 and 80 meters as well as RTTY on both bands.

Congrats on your efforts to work CW! It's a great mode and once you get going you get hooked on it! (After all, doesn't every teenager want to know a language they can use with their friends that their parents can't understand? OOPS! Guess that doesn't work when your dad's a ham, too!)

All the best!
Jim Duncan, KU0G
www.northamericantrafficandawards.net

[KD0HFZ]

After all, doesn't every teenager want to know a language they can use with their friends that their parents can't understand? OOPS! Guess that doesn't work when your dad's a ham, too!)

Ha ha! Thanks for the info, ill have to check it out. My dad says he wants to learn CW, and that will be good for him. If i learn before im 16 supposedly I will have it in my brain for the rest of my life as a secondary language.

[K9ZMD]

There's already been some mention of SKCC activity, but 7114 KHz should be specifically of interest to the slow speed CW beginner. That is the SKCC "Elmer" frequency, a safe haven for new operators to get on the air without worrying about making mistakes. It is regularly monitored by experienced operators who are willing to slow down & help you gain experience. Here, the SKCC emphatically states, "WE DON'T CARE IF YOU MESS UP!" In addition, every Friday is SKCC "novice day" on the frequencies near 7114, an effort to congregate beginners so they can help one another. This will never equal the activity level of the old Novice bands (the training ground of the 1960's, as mentioned earlier), but it does give slow speed ops a place to contact others who are on equal footing and experiencing the same nervous jitters.

With all that said, I have to elaborate on something else that others have already mentioned. Your existing dipoles will not be resonant on 80 or 40 meters, so if you are using coaxial transmission line, you do have greatly increased loss due to elevated VSWR. Coax only has relatively low loss at HF (compared to UHF) when VSWR is near 1:1, and your tuner cannot and will not improve the VSWR out there on that long coaxial transmission line. The resultant increase in loss ("heating the coax") means that you will be involuntarily operating QRP on 80 & 40 meters until you get antennas for those bands.

If you don't have room for more antennas on your lot, then you still have options.

(1) You can connect 80 & 40 meter elements to the feed point of one of those existing dipoles, as previously described, simply using the same space as the existing antenna. This configuration is commonly called a parallel or a fan dipole. Much lighter (cheaper) wire can be used for these elements than needed for the "supporting" dipole.

(2) You can replace the coax to that 160 meter dipole with balanced transmission line so it will work on 160-10 meters. There will still be a high SWR out on the transmission line, but it won't matter. Balanced line has significantly lower loss under those conditions (compared to coaxial cable), so most of your signal will get to the antenna. Your tuner will provide your transmitter with a match close enough to 50 ohms to allow full output. BTW, amateur radio operators commonly call this form of dipole a "doublet", to distinguish it from dipoles that are cut to resonance.

73 & see you on 7114 soon.

Gary, K9ZMD/6

[K3STX]

Do you and your dad really operate on 160 meters that much? You might consider cutting that dipole for 80 meters, trying to get it HIGHER in the air (without that extra weight of wire and length requirement this might be possible for you), and add either add a 40 meter and 20 meter dipole to the coax feed-point (in which case your tuner will make it work on 80, 40, 30, 20, and 15 meters with ease and low losses) OR feed it with ladderline (the best option).

paul

[K0CMH]

There are many slow speed (5 wpm and lower) nets on 40 and 80 meters.

Do a google search for Texas Slow Net, Oklahoma Training Net, Georgia Slow Net, etc.

Also try a search for "slow CW nets". There should be a big list of nets all over the country.

The start at about 5:30 PM Central Time and run until about 11:00 PM Central time.

They use the same net procedures as posted here earlier.

I hear any number of slow QSOs going on on 20 and 40 meters. Not sure why you are not tapping into them. Ir you hear a slow QSO going on, it is not impolite to throw your call inbetween once or twice. If you hear no response, they don't want to be interrupted, or they may invite you in, or they may ask you to "as" (standby) which means they will get to you when they wrap up their current converstaion.

Good luck and hope this helps. One other thought. Seeifyou can record your sending. Play it back and see if you can copy it. That could be part of the problem.

[KL7AJ]

I have tried slow CW CQ's for WAY too long, ive tried 20 and 40 at all ends of the CW portion. Why am I getting no response?

They probably are forgetting what you say between words. :D