View Full Version : Field Checking DXCC Applications
I recently went to a hamfest that had an ARRL Field Card Checking table. #I put my 100 card package together with an additional 5 cards just in case of any disqualifications.
I went into the hamfest, spent some time and came back out to see how the card checking was going. #To my surprise, the Checker Guy told me he could not process the cards. #Why?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Apparently, if you go on the ARRL website and read far down (about 3 pages), the DXCC page under "Entities Eligible for Field Checking" you will find the following Rule.
** SECTION IV. FIELD CHECKING OF QSL CARDS **
"QSL cards for new DXCC awards and endorsements may be checked by a DXCC Card Checker. This program applies to any DXCC award for an individual or station, except those specifically excluded.
a) All cards dated ten years or less from the calendar year of the application may be checked, except for those awards specifically excluded from the program. 160 meter cards are currently excluded from this program. QSLs for years more than ten calendar years from the application date must be submitted directly to ARRL Headquarters. #All deleted entities must be submitted to ARRL HQ."
Of course, I had 160 meter cards and cards more than 10 years old. #While I admit I didn't read far enough down the Eligibility requirements to spot these disqualifiers, the Field Checker Guy, said ARRL made this decision because apparently there are bogus or fake 160 meter QSL cards! # #Thanks a lot to the guys with the phony cards out there. #Get a life.
So, now, I either have to ship my cards to ARRL for confirmation or, filter my list through the computer again to remove 160 meters and 10 year old + cards. #Wish I knew this prior to my trip to the hamfest. I don't understand why 160 meters cards for W.A.S. are ok for field checking however.
K2WH
Addendum:
I found out recently from fellow hams there are so called BLANK QSL cards available in some circles. #These are cards handed out to friends as pay back or as souveniers ready to be made out any way you want. #Excess cards from dxpeditions and the like. #I never heard of this practice. #Has anyone else?
It is a shame that a few lazy people ruin it for the rest of the folks...Jim/WM5L
I had a near-similar experience at my local Hamfest.
I didn't have any 160m cards, but I had some 6m cards. #The Checker -- who is a heck of a nice guy, by the way -- did not know that he may check 6m cards for mixed-mode & band DXCC.
Being a lawyer, I had read the rules, and pointed out that he was fully qualified, and, after some discussion, off we went. #No problem, then.
I suppose the moral of this story is to read the rules. #And, yes, have some extra cards. #I submitted 114. #So, if a few get kicked out, I am still good to go.
The Field Checkers are doing us a nice service. #Be sure to thank your checker at your local Hamfest.
Peter, AG4KI
ke4pjw
03-03-2003, 11:47 PM
Wow. That's just crazy. Who was doing to spoofing? The folks attempting to get DXCC or the folks they talked to on 160?
Why would anyone do this? It's simply an insane thing to do in either case.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ Mar. 03 2003,16:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow. That's just crazy. Who was doing to spoofing? The folks attempting to get DXCC or the folks they talked to on 160?
Why would anyone do this? It's simply an insane thing to do in either case.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Because they are too lazy to get the cards the hard way, like earning them...Jim/WM5L
ke4pjw
03-04-2003, 12:48 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WM5L @ Mar. 02 2003,18:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Because they are too lazy to get the cards the hard way, like earning them...Jim/WM5L[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Seems like faking the cards would be more work. They are only cheating themselves anyway. In The Real World, does it even matter to anyone else if you have DXCC? No. This is beyond lazy. It's just plain stupid.
W4TYU
03-04-2003, 02:30 PM
I also had a group of cards checked at a hamfest in early February. Not a glitch in the group. The field checkers are active DXers and are very well informed on what dxpeditions have been approved for credit. They do the job as volunteers and perform a much needed service to the amateur community.
I am a WAS checker and in over 12 years have only one card submitted that was not correct. The gentleman had picked up a card comfirming a repeater contact which is a no no. No problem, he returned with the proper card and received his WAS certificate in due time.
JEAN W4TYU
W9WHE
03-04-2003, 03:06 PM
Why do you need the ARRL to tell you your QSL is good? I don't.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9WHE @ Mar. 03 2003,09<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why do you need the ARRL to tell you your QSL is good? #I don't.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Since ARRL is the issuing agency for the ARRL DX Award, they are the decision makers as to the validity of the cards. #Therefore, they have every right to validate or invalidate a card - as it should be. #Maybe you don't because you are an electronic qsl user and prefer their award over ARRL's. #Yes?? #Or, you simiply do not apply for any awards. #If so then your statement is accurate.
K2WH
K1MKF
03-04-2003, 04:53 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9WHE @ Mar. 04 2003,11:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why do you need the ARRL to tell you your QSL is good? #I don't.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You only need the league if you want the ARRL DXCC. It is a prestigous award only because of the steps taken to make getting an undeserved one near impossible.
I'm no big fan of the ARRL but admit that DXCC (WAS, too) is a lot more valuable than any of the numerous awards given on the honor system.
Mark
aa0mz
03-04-2003, 06:58 PM
Cheaters have taken 17 meter QSLs and stuck a point between the 1 and 8 thus changing it to a 160 meter contact. 18 = 1.8
Why would someone do that? There are cheaters at everything. People cheat at cards, golfing, etc. Must be a low self esteem thing that can only be elevated at a false 160 DXCC certificate.
Sucks to be them.
Why do I need an ARRL paper certificate to show I worked DXCC? I don't need it; I want it. I guess I could declined all kinds of diplomas, certificates and trophies too. Don't need them but it is nice to be recognized of accomplishments and to be proud to hang a framed diploma, a military award, a baseball trophy and any other achievement trinket.
I guess if I wanted to cheat I could hang a certificate for that hole-in-one I didn't get at Pebble Beach. Naaaw....I don't need a certificate, if I told someone they'd just believe me.
73,
Jim
AA0MZ (http://www.qsl.net/aa0mz)
W9WHE
03-04-2003, 08:03 PM
I guess I'm just a small time, out-of-touch ham. I only have 253 countries confirmed. As for awards...whether they be academy or ARRL....I say:
"We don't need no stinking awards!"
The more you put up with (and pay for) such nonsence, the tougher it will get.
wd9ewk
03-04-2003, 09:11 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Cheaters have taken 17 meter QSLs and stuck a point between the 1 and 8 thus changing it to a 160 meter contact. #18 = 1.8
Why would someone do that? #There are cheaters at everything. #People cheat at cards, golfing, etc. #Must be a low self esteem thing that can only be elevated at a false 160 DXCC certificate.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And, for some guys, a reason to send those blank QSL cards - mentioned in the original post for this topic. #I have blank QSL cards from 35 or 40 DXCC entities at home - some from guys who also print QSL cards trying to show off their handiwork, others as souvenirs, and some "just in case". #I suppose the "just in case" cards could go toward a new band/mode combination, or as thanks for "confirming" a nonexistent 160m QSO with my station. #I've never been on 160m, and I enjoy scribbling "not in log" on the QSL requests I receive for that band. #I'd be lucky to get more than a few watts radiated on that band, and certainly not enough to work across an ocean or two from Arizona. #
AA0MZ is right about adding a decimal to the "18" on some 17m QSLs. #On the cards I write out, I either put the decimal after the 8 or put the next digit after the decimal point - "18.0" or "18.1" - in the MHz boxes of my QSL cards, trying to avoid this situation on cards I send out. #My preference is to write the frequency in MHz instead of the wavelength in meters for that part of the card, but writing "17m" in a "Band" box would also make it more difficult on those wanting to cheat for a 160m QSL. #
73!
Patrick
WD9EWK/VA7EWK (http://www.qsl.net/wd9ewk/)
wa2dgv
03-05-2003, 04:33 PM
Bill k2wh -Im sure that the way you work dx,youll get all
the QSLs #you need.I cant belive that someone would cheat at DXCC or golf.Where is the pride in self.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Best 73s
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #Al
OK, I'm not really into awards - althought they are nice.
My question is when field checking the cards, what would prevent a cheat from just printing out a bunch of cards - using different papers, different inks, colors, designs, ect. Filling them out with the calls of real hams in the correct states and submitting those for a WAS award?
Does the ARRL actually verify each and every card with the contact? That seems like a very hard time comsuming process. I realize they do have the option of verifying and unlike most folks, a ham call is usually kept current with address and other contact info so it could be done in most cases.
It does seem to be more difficult to cheat using the EQSL service.
Just things I've wondered about.
Ken H>
K9FV
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KenH @ Mar. 04 2003,15:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK, I'm not really into awards - althought they are nice. #
My question is when field checking the cards, what would prevent a cheat from just printing out a bunch of cards - using different papers, different inks, colors, designs, ect. #Filling them out with the calls of real hams in the correct states and submitting those for a WAS award? #
Does the ARRL actually verify each and every card with the contact? #That seems like a very hard time comsuming process. #I realize they do have the option of verifying and unlike most folks, a ham call is usually kept current with address and other contact info so it could be done in most cases.
It does seem to be more difficult to cheat using the EQSL service.
Just things I've wondered about.
Ken H>
K9FV[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, ARRL does not investigate or verify each and every card but, ARRL as the originator of the DXCC idea and award, has a vested interest in making sure the program is above reproach and devoid of any improprieties when issuing the award. #I'm sure this is no easy task and I'm sure there are cheaters out there and holders of the award that do not / did not deserve it but, they have to live with their lie.
Doctored cards are probably easy to spot and are probably a very minor problem in the amateur ranks. #And, like I said the cheaters have to live with their lie. #So, whether your cards are checked in the field or at ARRL, the checkers are a reliable group I'm sure.
Eqsl on the other hand - I'm sure verfication of awards is a prime goal of theirs also and their Eqsl system seems to be fool proof (so I'm told). #I am not a member of that system so I can't really say how it works. #However, it remains to be seen if it really is as fool proof as advertised.
Me, well I have faith in the honesty of ham radio operators and the ARRL card checkers to weed out the bogus stuff. #Besides, doesn't everybody want an ARRL issued award and not a brand "X" award?
K2WH
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9WHE @ Mar. 04 2003,08:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why do you need the ARRL to tell you your QSL is good? #I don't.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
AMEN!!!!
KG4OOA
03-06-2003, 05:03 AM
You know I knew guys that after a few 807s became SEALS, Special Forces, Rangers, etc. Although I don't condon it, it is understandable to get a babe. (sorry but I ain't PC and ain't ever gonna be) These guys that cheat to get DXCC? You want to come up and look at my certificates? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif No way Jose.
Come on these guys that cheat on anything so trivial need a doctor with a couch.
I'm not saying DXCC is a trivial award. It takes a lot of work but it is for your own edification not mine. If you tell me that you just earned it, I will congradulate you. If you tell me you that you have it, OK but DXCC or WAS won't buy you a cup of coffee at the local restaurant or that gal. Think about it.
For me, I just relicensed about two years ago after 20 years off the air. DX, been there, done that. If I work it fine but I'd rather rag chew. Competition is fine but I think some of us are taking this stuff too seriously. My suggestion, relax take it easy and enjoy your hobby.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Mar. 05 2003,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, ARRL does not investigate or verify each and every card but, ARRL as the originator of the DXCC idea and award, has a vested interest in making sure the program is above reproach and devoid of any improprieties when issuing the award. #I'm sure this is no easy task and I'm sure there are cheaters out there and holders of the award that do not / did not deserve it but, they have to live with their lie.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have to say - why? Who really cares? You don't get anything for it; just a piece of paper to hang on the wall. I don't have one; if I did, it'd be done with proper QSLs. If somebody else's wasn't, then they have to live with the knowledge that they're hanging toilet paper on the wall.
What's hanging on anyone else's wall means less than nothing to me. It's not worth expending effort on.
I have a few questions about what constitures a valid QSL card for the purpose of earning ARRL Awards.
1. #Do all cards have to bear the operator's signature
# # to be valid?
2. #The League says that "altered" cards are not valid.
# # Does this mean that if the sending operator crosses
# # out his old callsign and simply writes his new one
# # with a pen on the card...does that constitute an
# # "altered" card? #Or if he does the same thing for
# # #his address?
Thanks and 73,
Tim
N8LXR
W1RFI
03-06-2003, 06:38 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa0mz @ Mar. 03 2003,12:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why do I need an ARRL paper certificate to show I worked DXCC? #I don't need it; I want it. #I guess I could declined all kinds of diplomas, certificates and trophies too. # #Don't need them but it is nice to be recognized of accomplishments and to be proud to hang a framed diploma, a military award, a baseball trophy and any other achievement trinket.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
When I worked all states with 250 milliwatts, I wanted the WAS certificate. Now that I am doing it all over again with 10 milliwatts, I don't even bother with the cards. Knowing I did it will be more than enough for me this time around. It is all a matter of perspective. :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
Well, I once received a card from a well known and very rare DXpedition in Asia made out to me for a contact I never made, And a request for a card for me to confirm a CY9 contact which was never made with him. Needless to say he got the whole mess right back in his SASE as not in log. Apparently this guy got ahold of some of the DXpedition cards, and didn't seem to understand that most Dxers are an honorable lot. I remember reading in Marti Lanes book that on one DXpedition they received twice the QSL requests compared to actual contacts. What a shame! 73 Duane, WV2B
I'll try to answer this from my "knowledge" as a former DXCC employee & ARRL awards manager (1980's):
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. #Do all cards have to bear the operator's signature to be valid?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
>>No, the op's signature is not required.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2. #The League says that "altered" cards are not valid. Does this mean that if the sending operator crosses out his old callsign and simply writes his new one
with a pen on the card...does that constitute an #"altered" card? #Or if he does the same thing for his address?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
>>If the op changes HIS call on the card, there was no problem because usually the card reflected what country was being confirmed. #I have a few cards in my stacks where the ops simply wrote in their portable QTH rather than getting new cards printed.
BUT...Any change in the callsign of the station that the card is made out to results in the card being bounced. #For example, I get a card from the upcoming Ducie Island operation and the op writes "N1GJ", realizes his mistake, crosses out N1GJ and writes NG1J....my card is considered altered. #Same goes for the mode or band in the case of single band or single mode awards.
My guess why they're requiring in-house checks of QSLs that are 10+ years old or from deleted countries (there are 45 of 'em).... could be questions of dates as to what the country was counted as, and when ie: 9U5 Ruanda-Urundi only counted between 7-1-60 and 6-30-62. #Also there were operations from 10+ years ago that never received proper credentialling or were just plain bogus. #I'm sure deleted countries an older cards require in-depth checking resources or more "historical knowledge" that the field checkers may not have...(ie which of Don Miller's operations receive credit?) if you guys and gals do, kudos & my apologies
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
ke4pjw
03-07-2003, 04:56 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NG1J @ Mar. 05 2003,21:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BUT...Any change in the callsign of the station that the card is made out to results in the card being bounced. For example, I get a card from the upcoming Ducie Island operation and the op writes "N1GJ", realizes his mistake, crosses out N1GJ and writes NG1J....my card is considered altered. Same goes for the mode or band in the case of single band or single mode awards.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Doh! I did this with the last batch of QSLs I sent out. I wish I could remember who it was. Sorry whoever you are!
-- Terry
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif After many years of hit and miss DXing I finally got my 100 plua cards (now working on 200) but I do not live in a area that has card checkers and I guess the cards have become more valuable to me than the award so I do not want to mail them in. I know that I am qualified so I guess that is what matters. I agree that the ARRL award may be more valueable because it is more difficult to obtain but I think that maybe World Radio has a cleaner approch to confirm their "DXCC". That is to have local club officers verifty the cards. Best of DX, Jerry K8gww
KA3NRX
03-09-2003, 06:12 PM
Last year the same thing kinda happened to me, but I was informed of the "10 year old QSL" rule......I really had to scrimp and claw for confirmations between 1992 and 2002 for my award, because most of my QSLs were from the previous cycle (between 1987 and 1992....and guess what???...two of my cards were disqualified by the league after for having either a forged license, or no documentation!........this took place after my cards were checked at a ham fest.......I had to re-submit two other cards to get my DXCC, which I again had to scrimp and claw to find between 1992 and 2002!....Fortunatley I found some and I sent them to the spot checker who was at the hamfest who lives on the other side of Pittsburgh from me!......I was lucky in the respect that I did NOT have to send these cards all the way to Connecticut!.......Going for DXCC sometimes has to unfortunately be a choar!.....I really wish that the league would relax the "10 year QSL" rule for the spot checkers!.....but I thank the league for allowing the spot checkers!....I guess you can't have everything!
W9WHE
03-10-2003, 03:57 PM
Call me crazy, but I think the Ten year rule is hypocritical, illogical, and downwright stupid.
1) Why do contacts "expire" after ten years, but the award gotten with the contact does not? Seems to me that if the contact "expires" after ten years, then the award that was gotten with the contact should also expire.
2) Why does a contact "expire". No logical reason.
ANSWER: Its hypocritical, illogical and stupid.
N9ESH
03-12-2003, 04:58 AM
Why would anyone want to bother forging QSL cards? With the cost of postage and application fees, wouldn’t it be a whole lot easier and cheaper just to forge the certificate? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif With today’s computers, this would be rather easy.
The legitimate awards committee could then concentrate on the honest applicants and not worry about fraud. And the fraudulent operators could use some ingenuity and come up with some really nifty awards. How about “Worked All Planets” or “Worked All Algerian Hams (prior to 1989)” or “Worked All Floating Debris” or “Worked The Titanic (maiden voyage).
W4TYU
03-22-2003, 03:00 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9WHE @ Mar. 04 2003,08<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why do you need the ARRL to tell you your QSL is good? I don't.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In the past there have been stations which were not where they said they were. e.g. Operated from a ship anchored several miles off shore from the stated location. The ARRL requires documentation that the station was licensed by the stated entity, that permission to land was received, etc. They do not grant "approval" untill all points have been cleared and in some cases have withdrawn approval of an operation.
Yes I saw one case where left over QSL cards were handed out as favors at a dinner. To my knowledge,none of these were ever submitted for DXCC credit.