View Full Version : Tail-end calls...grrr
n4qwb
03-03-2003, 03:52 AM
After working the ARRL DX contest this weekend, I noticed quite a few stations attempting tail-end calls that would do nothing but cause QRM. Many times, the DX station would have to tell these stations to stand by, and would have to ask me to repeat my report due to the interference. Do these tail-enders not realize that they are just making the situation worse for themselves and others? I realize that the tail-end call can be effective at times, but most of the ones I heard during the contest just made the situation worse.
I'll be nice and not mention any callsigns here (though I have a list scribbled down in the margin of my log). There is one particular club station that I heard numerous times try this ineffective and harmful technique. These people need to learn how to operate effectively. Or better yet, just learn some patience and common courtesy. They would have worked the DX station a lot faster if they didn't cause what I consider nothing more than intentional interference.
Oh well, perhaps I'm just overreacting. After all, lack of sleep may do that! hi hi
Hope everyone else did well in the contest.
73,
KN4FC
W1RFI
03-03-2003, 11:19 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KN4FC @ Mar. 01 2003,21:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After working the ARRL DX contest this weekend, I noticed quite a few stations attempting tail-end calls that would do nothing but cause QRM. Many times, the DX station would have to tell these stations to stand by, and would have to ask me to repeat my report due to the interference. Do these tail-enders not realize that they are just making the situation worse for themselves and others? I realize that the tail-end call can be effective at times, but most of the ones I heard during the contest just made the situation worse.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If I were operating as a rare DX station, I would forget to log every one I heard tail ending. That would put an end to the practice as fast as anything I could imagine! :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Mar. 02 2003,05:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If I were operating as a rare DX station, I would forget to log every one I heard tail ending. That would put an end to the practice as fast as anything I could imagine! :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was able to operate as a DX a couple of years ago, and I'm still getting "where's my card?" from a couple of poor operators that I forgot to log. I never admonished them on the air (that was up to the Pileup Police), but, gee...they ain't in my log...hm...wonder what happened?
There are also a couple of dorks that I know I never had a QSO with, who insist that I gave them a contact but never sent out a card. I think they either heard me and couldn't break the pileup, or went surfing in the cluster archives to find out when I was on the air. They aren't in my logs, not because of the issue above, but because I never had a QSO with them. I'd be interested to hear if this has happened to other DX operations.
73 de Drew N0XU
KA8NCR
03-03-2003, 03:10 PM
In regards to the entire DX contest, I have to say that I've never seen such rude operating practices.
I was listening to ragchews on 40 and 75 phone Saturday evening and it was not uncommon to hear a bunch east coast stateside amateurs suddenly start throwing out their calls, right on top of existing contacts.
One QSO in particular, which was quite enjoyable to listen to, had a number of east coast and mid west stations, all running a lot of power and I'm sure all quite detectable by the DX.
Really, the biggest threats to amateur radio is amateur radio itself.
Tail Ending, as we know it, would disappear from the face of the Earth if DX stations made it known they would NOT work anyone who tail ends. I have heard DX stations single out tail enders and pretty much tell 'em to take a hike.
On the other hand, I've heard DX stations WORK tail enders because the DX was LAZY and could copy the tail end lids in the clear. And I guarantee you -- If the DX works ONE tail ender, everyone else will tail end! That's for two reasons:
1) Pileup participants will use any advantage they feel they can get away with. If tail ending is "allowed," they'll use it.
2) Pileup participants will conclude that the ONLY way to get a contact is to tail end.
The situation deteriorates from there....
It is totally up to the DX station, and the DX station alone, to maintain order! Sure, the infamous Self Appointed Pileup Police sometimes jump in [STAND BY!!! STAND BY!!! STAAAAAANNNNDDD BYYYYY!!!!!] to try to "fix" the situation, but actually do nothing more than add to the noise.
Anyway, you have a right to complain. Tail ending sucks.
Out.
wb6bcn
03-03-2003, 08:56 PM
One of my contest pet peves is those that operate split without first checking where they transmit to make sure no one else is there. Operating split is necessary if you want to get certain operators in region 1 or region 3, but it would be nice if the op doing so would check for activity first where they are going to call.
W5KRM
03-03-2003, 08:57 PM
This is an old tactic used by many contesters and DXers alike.
For some, it works (picking them up after the initial QSO) and others, it has caused the DX station to go QRT.
One of my favorites is when a stations asks " Who's the Alpha Brava?"
And someone comes back with "Charlie Mike".
Well, that is sorta close I suppose. Hi.
Yeah, like "Who's the Whiskey Three Sierra station?" Then some jerk yells "WHISKEY ALPHA ONE DELTA ETCETERA ETCETERA." Then the DX station works the WA1. I hate that.
If a DX station asks for a repeat on a specific call, everyone else should shut up. AND the DX station should not encourage that behavior by answering a LID who calls out of turn that way. He should say "ONLY the W3 Sierra station, everyone else stand by." Again, if the DX sends the message that it's ok to call out of turn, people WILL.
Unfortunately, some DX ops are lazy. If he hears the big mouth WA1 calling out of turn, it's "easier" to just work him rather than listen through the noise for the station he originally heard. That's bad operating all around.
hopefully it would be nice if the dx station just forgot to log the wa1 station. Keep in mind thought in a pileup for every one LID out there, there are at least 3 professional ops. Thank God for that
The common answer, which you have all hit upon, is simple.
THE DX STATION directs the pileup. If the DX station has the will to make sure the herd behaves... THEY WILL BEHAVE!
If the DX station, as SY points out rightly (BTW, the signal slinger is available) if the DX lets the herd dictate the activity.. then you have what is known as chain-reaction stampede.
One of the best DX'ers who opped 'from the other side of the radio' for many years put it this way. "I set the tone from the beginning. I tell 'em that I don't work tailenders or people who operate out of sequence and fail to follow my directions. I'll work you to get you out of my hair BUT I'll note the log a special Q signal "NQL" No QSL - LID and you'll NEVER get a card." He further explained..
"I will repeat myself a couple of times every 15 minutes so the newcomers know about it. However, if I'm doing my job right.. the pileup will KNOW what the rules are and newcomers will follow the herd mentality and lead as they hear the ops I am working behave. Amazigly, once the first couple LOUD guys get a "QSL, NQL" from me it tends to cause the rest to pay attention"
I always remembered that and try NOT to emulate the QSL NQL guys.
So..the DX station allows the herd to rule or not. Totally under their control.
73
Chuck K3FT
Fer real.... That VK0MM knew how to take control of a pileup. He'd even nail people who were unintentional violators. He took no crap. At all. None. You'd go on his S list and never get off.
9K2ZZ has his own personal style of dealing with piler-uppers who don't play nice. It involves ridicule. haw...
Some DX stations will hit ya with "NIL" - Not In Log. That's like NQL, except you don't even get a contact.