Standards for Hams

[k9po]

There has been a lot of talk about the removal of the Morse code requirements from amateur radio licensing. The discussion of this item will get more intense as the year continues because it is one of the items that will be discussed by the IARU at the WRC-2003 in Geneva this June. There are a myriad of alphabet soup groups that we as amateurs hear about e.g. ARRL, FCC, IARU, ITU, etc. but there is seldom an explanation about who these groups are, how these group interact and how decisions such as removal of Morse code testing are made. Focusing on Morse code requirement and how it could be removed from FCC Part 97 is what this paper will discuss.

There are many TLAs and ETLAs used in telecommunications and regulatory environments on a regular basis. TLAs or Three Letter Acronyms and ETLAs Extended Three Letter Acronyms are the jargon that is used to describe these regulatory agencies and forums. Some basic groups we know almost right from the beginning of our amateur career are the FCC-Federal Communications Commission and the ARRL-American Radio Relay League. The FCC is the regulatory authority for the United States, this is the agency that makes the rules that we as amateurs have to follow. Those rules for the amateur radio service are contained the Code of Federal Regulation Title 47 Part 97 (47CFR97) or just Part 97 for short. The ARRL is a forum that represents amateur radio operators from the US to international and national agencies, these are the guys that lobby on behalf of us. There are other international organizations that one may hear about from time to time. One of those is the IARU-International Amateur Radio Union. An individual does not join the IARU only organized groups of people referred to as ‘societies’ do, the ARRL, for example, is a member of the IARU and other country’s amateur radio interest groups belong as well. The primary interest of the IARU is to act as a sounding board for their members to work out positions related to spectrum. This is not to say they do not get involved in other topics, they do, Morse code for one, but they primarily discuss spectrum related issues. The IARU also attends meetings of the ITU, more about them later, to represent the amateur viewpoint to the global regulators. For our example of Morse code testing, it is the IARU that took up the position that requirements be dropped to 5 wpm, but they do not have any authority to actually change the rules. To do that they need to convince the regulatory authorities in each country that has an amateur radio service.

The ITU-International Telecommunications Union is a global regulatory authority charted as part of the United Nations that develops regulatory criteria and standards for all aspects of telecommunications including how spectrum is organized. The ITU is comprised of three groups the Radio Group (ITU-R) the Telecommunications Network Group (ITU-T), and a group that works with nations that are still developing their communications infrastructures (ITU-D). The ITU has also divided the globe into three regions. Region 1 is Europe, Africa, and all of Russia, Region 2 is North and South America, and Region 3 is everywhere else (Asia, Australia, Oceana). Each of the ITU group is even further divided into study groups and working parties that are charged with the development of a particular technology or service. The Amateur Radio Service is found in ITU-R SG8 WP8A. WP8A also works on the Amateur Satellite Service and land mobile (police and fire department systems) but not cellular systems. It is WP8A that writes and maintains a specification call M.1544 Minimum Qualification for Radio Amateurs. This is where the one can find the first mention of Morse code being a requirement for operation below 30MHz* written down and it is the authority for the FCC to require, as a minimum, 5wpm Morse testing for HF operation. Since this is a global standard issued by the UN (remember the ITU is an agency of the UN) those members of the UN are bound to follow the specification or face sanctions. This means that the FCC cannot unilaterally remove the Morse code testing requirement but can set the minimum to 5wpm. The FCC could and has set the maximums higher i.e. 13wpm, 20wpm, etc.

This now sets the stage for our example of the possible elimination of the Morse requirement. The IARU has already adopted the position that it supports “the removal of Morse code testing as an ITU requirement for an amateur license to operate on frequencies below 30 MHz.” This position comes form the member societies and follows procedures that are very similar to any democratic process. A motion was made, seconded, discussed and voted on, a majority of members supported this position and it was approved as a resolution and official lobbying position. Incidentally, the ARRL has voted to against this resolution at IARU meetings.

With the resolution in hand the IARU now approaches the ITU. The next big opportunity for this happens this June and it is called the World Radio Conference 2003 (WRC-2003). The WRC, formally called World Administrative Radio Conferences, WARCs, are were many of the really big decisions will occur and they take place every three years. At WARC-1979 a decision was made to increase spectrum for hams around the globe and thus was born the WARC bands (10, 18, and 24MHz). These WRCs are a pretty big affair and it takes several years to prepare and lobby positions for them. Many items will be up for discussion and even the IARU has more on their agenda than just Morse testing. But lets continue to keep focus on our example and it holds true for the other items as well. If the WRC approves the IARU resolution ITU-R WP8A will revise the standard M.1544, the approval process will take some time, as members of WP8A are allowed to raise any issue they may have with the language of the standards. But once approved the national regulatory authorities are now free to implement any part of it as long as they meet the minimum requirements. For the U.S. the regulatory authority is the FCC and they may initiate an update of part 97. But they are not the only ones that may initiate the action.

The FCC sometimes on its own will start and update a rule but any citizen or U.S. company can also request an update to a rule. A Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPR) is developed and opened for comment, and that mean comments form anyone. That could be you or me, or company ABC or the ARRL, etc. Once those requirements are collected they are reviewed and a final decision will be made based on the will of those who submitted comments. With our Morse requirement example the FCC may choose to not update part 97 and no action will take place until they are requested to change the rules and the comments favor a removal of the requirement. With the NPR it is possible that the result is to keep the Morse testing requirement and that would be in agreement with the minimum performance which is set to no Morse code or eliminate it all together.

The process seems big and cumbersome but it does work. The question is how can you get involved. First join the ARRL but don’t stay at home and read your QST you have to let those that are in the decision making positions know your thoughts. At least twice a year the ARRL holds meetings to review topics and understand what the membership wants. This is what your Division Directors do, they represent you to the ARRL, their primary duty to ensure the preservation and expansion of our hobby continues. They cannot do this unless they know what the ham community needs and you thought they just had met and greets at hamfests.

The process that was reviewed is not just the process for the Morse code requirements that will be taken up this summer but also for other topics such as 7MHz issue with broadcasters, the development of a global ham license, RFI, and many others. I highly recommend you visit http://www.iaru.org/iaru-index.html#wrc2003 and review the many topics and see if one is of interest to you. Then tell your division director of the ARRL. Who is your division director? Go to http://www.arrl.org/divisions/ to find out.

*Resolution 01-1 of December 2001 meeting of the IARU, http://www.iaru.org/ac-respol.html

[Debater]

Could the author or perhaps someone of greater intellect decipher this for me and advise me as to the point of this posting?

If there is a message here, just what is it? A simple, concise paragraph will do, thank you.

[WM5L]

Me too. Wow thats a lot to digest! Less is sometimes more. You know?

[radio123us]

This is just trying to start another code vs no-code debate. It has been debated before, but this
subject keeps reappearing in various forms.

[n5wsu]

Right now I'm hoping that they will remove the code on the HF bands. But I guess it's just wishful thinking. It's time for a change.

[6meterfm]

I think this is another attempt to let everyone know that one of the items on the docket for WRC-2003 is the possible removal of the code requirement as part of the international treaty.
Even if they decide to remove this requirement, it doesn't mean the US has to do away with it......it simply means it will be up to each individual country if they want to keep it as part of their requirement. And I've heard nothing about the US doing away with the 5 wpm requirement for HF. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Debater @ Feb. 24 2003,12:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Could the author or perhaps someone of greater intellect decipher this for me and advise me as to the point of this posting?

If there is a message here, just what is it? A simple, concise paragraph will do, thank you.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't know about having a greater intellect than you, but I thought the posting was fairly straight forward. The poster is attempting to explain the process of how Amateur radio regulations come about. He is also suggesting ways that you can influence what regulations are put in place. He is a bit wordy, but anyone who is attempting to explain something that is non-trivial always is.

I take the point as being this. Anyone who really cares about the new proposed international Amateur radio regulations should let their voices be heard in a meaningful way.

[VA7ADR]

I'm for the removal of the cw requirement for hf operating privileges. It's a good mode but it has outlived it's usefulness. There are better and easier ways to communicate by radio in this time and age.

With the old timers going SK, newbies going digital, and antenna restrictions running amuck, doing away with the cw requirement is one of the few ways left to attract more ops to hf before it is taken by the government and given to big money groups.

It's really time for a change!

[KB9YKY]

"outlived it's usefulness"? What a foolish comment.
Nothing is as efficient as cw. Saying anything contrary to this basic fact is just plain silliness. Anyone foolish enough to live where they can't have a good antenna system should appreciate even more cw's ability to work where and when all other modes fail. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K2WH]

Yeah, I want the code requirement to be eliminated once and for all also. #Alot of my friends, CB'ers and other interested (interesting?) people, would like to get their ham ticket for HF operation but the code keeps them unfairly out.

So, what do they do - Freeband and bootleg and that's just not fair. #If the code disappeared, they wouldn't have to operate illegally. #They could just fire up the old HF rig and talk all over the world either in the bands (legally) or just above or just below the band (illegally) - (no one will notice). #Bad habits are hard to break ya know.

So, eliminate the code and let my good buddies operate legally then we won't have to complain about the Freebanders and the 10 meter intruders anymore. #We can all be one big happy family. #Us and them.

K2WH

[w0aew]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (VA7ADR @ Feb. 25 2003,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm for the removal of the cw requirement for hf operating privileges. It's a good mode but it has outlived it's usefulness.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, from what I can make out from the original post, U.S. operators would voice their opinions one way or the other to their ARRL division director. I assume Canadians would submit their comments to someone equivalent. Wasn't there a separate Candian Amateur Radio League at some time? Or have they reorganized?

[K2WH]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 24 2003,13:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"outlived it's usefulness"? What a foolish comment.
Nothing is as efficient as cw. Saying anything contrary to this basic fact is just plain silliness. Anyone foolish enough to live where they can't have a good antenna system should # appreciate even more cw's ability to work where and when all other modes fail. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry, but some of the newer digital modes are better and more efficient than CW for weak signal work - that is a basic fact! #I have received msg's when no signal is evident visually or by ear.

Especially PSK31. #PSK31, is an apartment dwellers or a home with restrictive coventants dream. #5 watts with an indoor antenna, works the world. #Yes I know it can be done with CW, but with newbies and others not knowing CW or refusing to learn it, PSK or the other digital modes are very attractive alternatives.

We as guardians of amateur radio all have to face this basic fact - amateur radio is evolving - and live with it. #If you want to be out of the loop, that's your choice.

I don't know if you have ever attempted to use the digital modes (besides CW), but they have an amazing ability to copy 100%, very weak signals.

K2WH

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif oh sure...99% of you folks went through the TIME, EFFORT and TROUBLE to LEARN the international morse code ( c w ), #so YOU could communicate with other AMATEUR radio operators around the city, state, country or even the world. YOU put forth a LOT of energy into learning the morse code, just as I did. Now you want to ELIMINATE it, so others can have a "free ride " into HF...NO WAY !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif . ""#I had to learn it to be able to communicate on HF, and so should ANY one else who wishes to."" # YOU did it, now some of you want to make it into a " free band- good buddy system ". !! C W is great ( it helps keep the riff - raff out ), sure some folks arent that great of operators on HF with EXTRA class of licences, but you always have a few "bad apples " in any crowd. #KEEP THE CODE !...kd4amg

[whsmith]

With CW's rich traditions and the fact that it can be a very fun mode of operation, I recommend leaving the 5 wpm requirement as is. I feel that if a person won't bother to learn the code, they just don't want the privileges bad enough. It is a requirement that just opens a nice door. It doesn't mean you have to become a fist. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N0PU]

Hey folks...

The posting was NOT about the code...
Code was used as an example....
He used code because that is something everyone has heard about...

The original poster took no postion for you to argue about...
It was simply informative about how the system works...

It was really pretty simple and straight forward and I don't understand
how anyone could NOT understand it...
-----------------------

Thanks for the posting... There were a couple things there I was misinformed about... I'll look into them...

[w6th]

There is no doubt when you see my call letters that I am for keeping the code examination. #If I had my way I would vote to go back to the 13 wpm and a test at the FCC office and no VEC.
Joining the ARRL is not going to bring you a winning vote to hang on to the code test or get rid of it. #The ARRL is a magazine publishing company and has been that way from the very first start. And very good books I may ad, the very best. (Your vote may go the wrong way, be careful what you sign and join). Most clubs and organizations control people, so be careful.
The only way to keep ham radio going is to keep the code tests and the theory. By eliminating both the code and theory, we may in a very short time no longer have #ham radio, but into something much more different.
Lets not think of ourselves and what we can get from it for free, gratis , no cost. Lets get smart and preserve our ham radio the love of our life.

# # # # # # # # #73, W6th

[K6UEY]

I'm not sure just how it happened but this post slipped under the Radar until the second page. Well done #Scott, you took the time and effort to explain the total process so that even an entry level HAM would understand how the system works. It would seem that it was over the head of a few, but now that HAM Radio has been reduced to the lowest common denominator, we can expect some will be left out in the cold.
The explanation you presented should be of value to all members of the HAM Radio Fraternity as it effects newbies and OF's alike. I would point out to some of the newer crowd who are bent on changing the Service to more meet their own individual desires, instead of reinforceing the foundation on which it was built, Scott has very well outlined how the process works in a very precise manner, and if you notice there was nothing in the process about whinning and crying and saying "I can't learn ".
Although the code issue was not the premise of his post, since he did use it as an example, I believe at my last check there were several nations who were against the dropping of the code requirement. If the US and Britain were to join them it almost would be a foregone conclusion that the code requirement would remain.
Scott well done and TNX for the well presented post we need more informative topics. # #
ENJOY!! It is later than you think ......73, # ORV
# http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KG4OOA]

As was previously stated inyernational requirements are only minimum requirements. I live in the United States of America and am a citizen of such! We can make our own requirements as long as they are the minimum or greater. When the CW requirement is removed, I will turn my license to the FCC to be canceled because that will be when all the LIDS will flood in. The only Americans that want it removed id the ones that are too lazy to take the time to learn the code. The past ten to fifteen years has been filled with politcal correctness (a bunch of anti-American bull) that has allowed sloth to become acceptable in this Great Nation. We need to restore and maintain high standards in all our endevors, not lower them! In the past Hams were respected because of these high standards as was this Nation. I know that I will be called by some an elitist. If so, I will hold my head up and be proud of the title. The elite are the best. What is wrong with being the best and only allowing the best to enter our ranks. It is not as though they don't have anywhere to go, just listen on 11 meters. In short, you don't deserve somethings just because you suck air! You have to earn them!

[KB3IYN]

I am a relatively new ham. I just passed my Technician test in Januray, and the General and CW tests this weekend. While I cannot say that I am proficient with CW, I still believe it should be one of the requirements for HF operation. Even if not for its usefulness (and I'm sure it still is useful) it should be kept as a symbol of what Ham radio is about. Sure, we have RTTY and other computer asissted methods of digital communication, but they aren't what founded the hobby.

Just a little piece of my mind.

Jason Steiner
KB3IYN

[kd5scg]

Fo those of you in favor of digital modes, CW is digital. For thos in favor of computer modes I hear that there is a great new one called ICQ it is available at www.ICQ.com It is totally user friendly and best of all it won't clog up the bands that I worked for. Anybody can regurgitate answers from a book, but it takes effort to learn morse code. If you can't get morse code then you can always use IRLP

[earchacki]

Here we go again! Jeez read what he said made sense to me. Oh and I agree digital is as good as cw oh excuse me isnt cw digital in its on sense on off? but I agree we should all keep the old and through away the new. By god I think i'll sail the Mayflower tommorrow. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

KD7GIU

[radio123us]

We have already have a no-code HF band. It's
called CB (criminal band !!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. Do we really want
to try this over again? The no-code CBers have
already added their CB lingo to the local 2 meter repeaters here...do we want more of the same on HF ?

[wb5yiw]

Well, I gotta add my 2 cents worth in here. As far as keeping the code requirement, no argument can be made one way or the other without stirring up a host of emotional responses. Let's try to look at it from a logical point of view guys. I've been a ham for 26 years now, so I don't consider myself a newbie anymore. The most common argument for keeping it is "it keeps the riff-raff out." Sorry, that dog don't hunt. Tune across any band late at night, but particularly 20 or 75 meters and listen. The language and subject matter you find in some of these conversations would make a sailor blush, and the people involved are K and W prefixed 1 x 2 and 1 x 3 calls that have been licensed for decades. Or listen to all the griping and complaining everytime there is a hurricane net from guys that have been using that frequency for 30 years to talk to thier old war buddies and now they have to move for a bunch of "glory hounds" as I heard it put one night. That stuff qualifies as riff-raff to me. Sure, the new guys have thier share of problems, but we should be willing to encourage and help these folks, not shun them because they didn't have to walk through the same fire we did.

Ok, number 2--it's more efficient. You can get through when nothing else will. Ok, I'll buy that...up to a point. But take a look around guys, technology has marched on. A mule will go places you can't even think of going in a car, but you don't have to know how to saddle one to get your driver's license. Even the Coast Guard has stopped monitoring the CW emergency frequency.

As for #3, "its a fine tradition. If someone wants to be a ham bad enough, he'll do it just as a right of passage." Horse-hockey. The spark gap transmitter is a fine tradition too, but they are gone. Especially the young folks will blow that off. All that trouble to pass the test, the money involved to get a radio and antenna, will add to more than a computer and internet connection, and will do almost the same thing as far as conversing with the rest of the world.

As far as that goes, a computer with some freeware and about $5 worth of parts will send and receive for ya.

As you may have figured out by now, I am in favor of abolishing it as a REQUIREMENT. Guys, it won't go away if they remove the requirement. Anyone that wants to can still use it. In fact, more might be interested in doing it if we can get more folks on the air in the first place.

[k3ogl]

If ham radio is to continue in the future, the code is going to have to go. I got my general ticket about a year ago only because I'm inteested in this stuff. But there aren't many other 18 yr olds interested in this "old fashioned" technology when cell phones and internet dominate. Most of the people I went to school with looked at me with blank stares if I mentioned ham radio.

[KB9YKY]

Without cw it is just cb. If they want to be cbers, there are 40 channels for that foolishness. No reason to destroy the HF bands by making them cb channels.

[KC9AIE]

The day the code requirement is eliminated, and all the CB'ers flood our HF bands might be the day I stop being a ham. Jeeze people! Don't you see that CW is the greatest aspect of old AND contemporary radio?!? That is the true gatekeeper that seperates those who are willing to work to earn their licenses, and those who just drift along like lumps of crap! There are two types of people in this world; People who have the persistance to get what they want in life, and the people who rely on them. Thats what makes us hams. and if I can pass 5wpm at age 14, any of you can! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[K8AG]

If the IARU removes the code requirement, it will be gone in the US, #In fact, I predict that if the IARU removes the code requirement, the CW only band portions will be completely or almost completely eliminated. #I think this is a bad thing, but that is my opinion.
If the IARU removes the code requirement, the equipment vendors will smack their lips and not only get the US to do the same, but strive to squash the CW bands because they will want more bandwidth for the talkers.
Hey, I have an idea. #Lets deregulate radio entirely and let anybody do anything that they want. #That way ham radio will become the CB radio of the new century. #But the government will save all of that money regulating radio, and equipment manufacturers can sell whatever to whomever they want.
Oh well. #Ham radio was great while it lasted.

[KG4WAE]

They should have never lowered the code requirement to 5 wpm in the first place. Extra class used to be something special that had to be earned. Take the 5 wpm away and watch what happens to HF. If we heading down the road to the "new digital modes" you might as well sell your rig and get a good internet connection and converse pc to pc.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Feb. 25 2003,13:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Now you want to ELIMINATE it, so others can have a "free ride " into HF...NO WAY !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif . ""#I had to learn it to be able to communicate on HF, and so should ANY one else who wishes to."" # YOU did it, now some of you want to make it into a " free band- good buddy system ". !!"[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Is this not what it really is all about??? When you get all the myths out on the table (PSK31 vs. CW, dumbing down, etc. etc.) isn't this what it comes to. "I did, so you have too!" So in that point of view, should we get rid of the written tests? They are meaningless, right? Heaven knows they don't keep the riff-raff out. Code does that. YA RIGHT!!! Its more than "A FEW" Bad Apples. Lets live in the real and realize that we are barley keeping the riff raft swept under the table. Heaven knows that 80Meters is SOOOO much better than 11meters. HAA!

Here is the real world. The testing system needs to be fully revisited. You CAN drop the code requirment and still not dumb down. Its not hard to see that digital modes (other than cw) are the wave of the future. Ham Radio has always been on the front lines of technology and we need to grab on before we are left behind for the first time in its history. Lets face it, few manufacture their own equipment. First off, the pool should cease to be public. Memorization should not be an option! Second, lets concentrate more on the new modes. I still am not sure how PSK31 really works. It being the number one digital mode (aside from code), don't you think it would be realistic to focus on it and other new modes.

2nd, Debate is a good thing, but why do we feel it necessary to attack???!!! I am so sick and tired of fourms dedicated to this hobby that promotes good will be tanted by people who just find it fun to pull someones chain. Esp. these characters that make it a point to disquise who they are. Amazing how every negitive comment on these fourms (Besides the healthy debate including the gentlemen I qouted) did not use a callsign as there ID. Funny isn't it.

3rd, Let me put this on the table. I AM, and proud to be, a 5wpm GEN. I had my 5wpm long ago as a tech, but could not get over the 13 hump. I was and am in the service and did not have much more than a mobile. Getting over "The Hump" takes practice. And I did not have a station capable. I work as a Network Administrator for the goverments largest computer network but I am dumbing down HAM RADIO becouse I only know 5wpm. Come on, there is a lot more to intellegence than two tones that map an alphabit we all learned in first grade. But let me say this. I LOVE THE CODE. I just now have had a chance to utilize "The Most Fun Mode" I have ever used. And allow me to say thank you to everyone that has bared with me through my learning experiance. Every contact so far has been rememberable. Just becouse its a fun mode does not mean it should be required though. Do you really think it will die off easy? Just read these debates. No matter what happens, CW still has a heritage on ham radio. Its not like we are all going to quit sending code the day it is removed as a mode. I won't, and any true cw op will not. The only way that it will die is if the "I AM A REAL HAM GOD AT 20WPM" hams keep on this fantasy that they are a BETTER ham then a Tech no code or a 5wpm Extra, and start being "Super Elmers" and pass the code down with some respect.

4th, BOY DID WE MISS THE POINT! Even I got WAY off the subject. As for the original post. TNX, it was informative and true. No matter what side of the issue you are on, STAND UP AND SPEAK! BE HEARD! No one thats going to give you what you want basis their battle from this fourm. Go tell the right people. Thats all he was saying.

Thomas
KH6/W4MDL

[KG4PIC]

Well my opinion on this is that they should keep the cw requirement. I am a tech and have failed the cw test once, but I am still in favor for it. #I probably won't have time to try it again though till I get out of college. #If they do away with the cw requirement, the first thing I will do is go out and buy one of those cw readers and get my general. #I will study and try again and maybe one of these day I will get it. #I still say keep the requirement. This has nothing to do with what this topic was about though. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[earchacki]

See what has happened to HF already. Although Im not able to transmit (I do follow the rules). I can listen and believe me the nonsense you hear on All bands has nothing to do with code. Some of these people have had liecenses for decades. There are other ways besides code to keep the so called Rift Raff out try making the tests harder more theory maybe a project or perhaps a not so canned test that can be memorized. Truelly the original intent of the first post was just to give a education to those of us that may of not been familiar. Thank you for the post. Quite frankly if someone wants to transmit they will. It takes years to enforce anyway http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

KD7GIU

[kb1pcx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Feb. 25 2003,13<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So, eliminate the code and let my good buddies operate legally then we won't have to complain about the Freebanders and the 10 meter intruders anymore. We can all be one big happy family. Us and them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Why is this unfair to your buddies? Just because someone doesn't want to learn code doesn't mean he deserves an amateur radio license. They can get the Technician class license if they aren't interested in code. And if they don't want to be licensed, there are plenty of bands to play with that don't require licensing at all.

I guess your argument just seemed weak to me, saying that it's unfair for people that just don't want to learn Morse code.

-David, a happily licensed Technician class operator

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif it appears from the past 2 #pages that ( I #) have been QUOTED more than any other person so far in this post ( scroll back and see for your self , #did not know my popularity was so great ) .....but I stand my ground on several points : I had to learn cw to be a GENERAL class operator and any one else that WANTS to , SHOULD have to pass a 5 wpm cw test, too ! #Sure, lets "dumb it down"...NO written test, NO cw knowledge...let us see what it will be like in LESS than ONE year... ( 11 meters might even be "nice and quiet ", since 99 % will leave the cb channels for the NEW bands, open for ALL to enjoy, think about it )...it might help the economy, too ( sell more HF rigs and tuners and antennas and towers and rotors...like back in early 1990 s when NO CODE started, it helped to sell 2 meter and 6 meter and 440 rigs and antennas, etc. )....let us all work to " dumb down ham radio "....and after it all passes, I can make a few dollars ( and so can YOU ) by selling the newbies all of your equipment....think about it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ..kd4amg

[wk4ds]

The "long dead horse debate" about the code that has drifted from the original intent of the post, (by the way, I liked it), brings mixed emotions for me. #I being a "light general" for not having to do 13WPM, brings ridicule from some in this HOBBY, but, you know what? #I haven't met one of these critics on the air yet. #I like to use CW too, and for me it is wonderful to transmit your message without having to say a word!!! I think there are a lot of people that would love to have access to SSB in the HF region that either don't have time to spend earning the code or simply can't learn it. #Yes, I beleive there are people that can NOT learn it. #Just won't sink in. #Don't punish them for it. I learned it, true, and I am glad I did, but the license will keep the CBer's as you call them, out anyway. #I also agree with the other about the groups on 75 meters, that I won't tune through with my XYL in the room with me. #No better than the CBer's if you ask me. #I felt "let down" by HAM radio when I heard these poeple, and thought I had wasted my time and money. #Then I remembered the other people I had met at the Hamfest (yes, just one) and on the air. #All my contacts so far have been more than nice to me, I know that there are good people on the radio too. #Code or NO-Code either way, I want to talk on the radio. #Everybody who wants to use the digital modes, have at it, and I will leave you alone so you can have fun with it. #C'mon guys, lets all be HAM's here and have a good time instead of getting upset over something like a test requirement.

IT IS A HOBBY, NOTHING MORE!!!!!

[w6th]

This is the quote that should #not have been #mentioned in the original foregoing statements of KF5JQ:

Quotation note.

(The process seems big and cumbersome but it does work. The question is how can you get involved. First join the ARRL but don’t stay at home and read your QST you have to let those that are in the decision making positions know your thoughts. At least twice a year the ARRL holds meetings to review topics and understand what the membership wants. This is what your Division Directors do, they represent you to the ARRL, their primary duty to ensure the preservation and expansion of our hobby continues. They cannot do this unless they know what the ham community needs and you thought they just had met and greets at hamfests.

End of quotation.

Why was this sales topic mentioned to sway one and another to represent us, when it was also mentioned we could do this as our own a group or whatnot, whatever.

Does this indicate we can all can get organized to have #the ARRL answer for all of us? #Good question, is it not?

As I previously mentioned, be careful what you sign and join as clubs and organizations can control you.

# # Watch your back. # 73, #W6th

[radio123us]

This argument is a reflection of society in
general these days. No one wants to work
for anything anymore, whether it be a college
degree, job promotion, or ham license. Most CBers
don't have the DISCIPLINE to learn CW, so they
just whine about the CW requirement in these forums.

[KC9AHH]

They should keep the code, geez they have made it easier from 20 wpm 13wpm its a 5 wpm test if you dedicate yourself and spend time you can pass it everyone makes it out to be a hard test. People saying they want to get rid of it because its unfair to the "cber's
alot of people are just to lazy to study for it. It also keeps alot of people that don't need to be on hf out. They should at least keep 5wpm if you can't pass it then you don't need to be on hf. And about the freebanders in the last post well they are breaking rules already so what rules are they going to break on hf?

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif concerning the RIFF RAFF with the vulger talk, I guess I am lucky, with only a G5RV #at 42 feet for an antenna, I personally have NOT heard what some of you folks are hearing, on 75-80 meters. But then honestly I have NOT been listening FOR the vulger talk, having too much FUN carrying on regular conversations, but I DO appreciate the DAILY reminder that there are "potty-mouths" out there. My rig has a unique feature that may be marketable to a radio manufacturing company: a " tuning knob #" ( usable for changing frequencies at a moment notice) #. It can be used for escaping the CONTESTERS on every weekend, or finding more EXCELLENT operators to listen to #( or even operate the optional microphone #for transmitting ). This " tuning knob " could be used for many purposes, only limited by the operators imagination. If this " tuning knob " is available on other rigs, it might be worth the effort to go through the catalogs, web sites, etc. to find the SELECT units with this type of feature. #You will notice that most CB rigs have no "tuning knob ", but they have a feature called a "channel selector " ( just wanted to mention C B so some of you folks would not get LOST ).....got to go check in to 3.965 net, starts at 6;30 pm till some time about 7;30 pm, every night of the week ....**loving #HF #and the VARIETY #of it all **...kd4amg

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Feb. 24 2003,17:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I had to learn cw to be a GENERAL class operator and any one else that WANTS to , SHOULD have to pass a 5 wpm cw test, too ![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I had to learn cw to be an Extra class operator and can tell you that anyone else who wants to should not have to pass a 5 wpm cw test.

But seriously, if there was _ANYTHING_ that caused me to not like cw, it's the "Without CW it's just CB" crowd. It has been a little over a year since I passed the test and just now I am attempting to actually improve my skill. (BTW: Reading these forms and banging them out on a straight key is great practice.)

Really, the only reason I want to get good at cw is because it is almost intrinsic to the two goals I have this summer. 70cm EME and HF QRP while camping.

If they really wanted Techs to learn CW, they should allow Techs access to the novice subbands on HF minus 10M phone.

To attempt to bring this back on topic let me say, join the ARRL and tell your section manager what you think! No matter what that opinion is!

[n9kpn]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wb5yiw @ Feb. 25 2003,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">....The most common argument for keeping it is "it keeps the riff-raff out." #Sorry, that dog don't hunt. #Tune across any band late at night, but particularly 20 or 75 meters and listen. #
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

This is very true. #Also, take a look at the FCC Enforcement letters sometime. #These are not all going to "NO CODE" techs. #You will even see VECs getting dinged for passing those that do not deserve a license. #Those wanting to "Keep the riff raff out" are making HAMS out to be what the acronym means, High And Mighty. #The Morse Code REQUIREMENT has long outlived its original reason for existence. #This was REQUIRED when the bands were shared with Military radio stations. #This has not happened for many years now. #And even the military does not use code.

Does anyone REALLY know why code is still a requirement? #Not because of "efficiency", not because of emergency communications, it is because of International Agreement! #Who makes the decision to keep Morse code? #The AMATEUR RADIO COMMUNITY! #Not some Government office in Washington. #Hams themselves! #Does anyone bother reading the form 605 when they get their license or upgrade at a VE testing session? #Probably not as it states this on the back side of the form! #True, the code requirement is there because all nations have agreed to keep it and the FCC must maintain the requirement. #If you read form 605, the back side states: "THE REASON FOR THE MORSE CODE EXAMINATION #Telegraphy is a method of electrical communication the Amateur Radio Service community strongly desires to preserve. #The FCC supports this objective by authorizing additional operating privileges to amateur operators who pass a Morse Code examination." <SNIP>

(Go here to read this form for yourself: #http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/ncvec605-3.pdf #See page two. #Look under the INSTRUCTIONS section)

Thus the only reason Morse Code is still practiced is because those in the Amateur community making the rules want it that way. #The FCC supports those wanting to keep the code. #If the Amateur community decides that they DO NOT want the code as a requirement, then it must be eliminated via International agreement. #Once this is done, the FCC can make the changes as requested by the Amateur community.

[W8FAX]

And yet another discussion reduced to code/no code.
Who's the DX?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?

[KN7Y]

I'm very sorry to see the Morse code requirement being considered for deletion. It is an efficient universal language. It is simple, straight forward,and often can be copied when SSB (even with digital technology) doesn't cut the static. Bringing this up for consideration is the easy way out. The next thing that will be considered is that it won't be allowed on the air. The political way is to take one thing away at a time and no matter how the people struggle with the idea, there is a false political mind set that "no one will notice."

[k3jdp]

I understand exactly what the man is saying. I say keep the code! I got away from cb because of garbage. I don't want to see ham radio end up like that. I believe keeping the code will help prevent that.

[w6th]

Well this takes the cake. Always code no code. Sad isn't it, yet it is all involved for profits, more money, more money, for less and less.
# # 20 wpm for 5 wpm means 20 million dollar increase in the sales of ham radios. The rich get richer and the hams get more radios.

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Feb. 24 2003,18:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why was this sales topic mentioned to sway one and another to represent us, when it was also mentioned we could do this as our own a group or whatnot, whatever.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I guess the sales pitch is made for the same reason I pitched it, there is no other American organization that has more political clout than the ARRL.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Feb. 24 2003,18:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does this indicate we can all can get organized to have the ARRL answer for all of us? Good question, is it not?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think it can answer for most of us.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Feb. 24 2003,18:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As I previously mentioned, be careful what you sign and join as clubs and organizations can control you.

Watch your back. 73, W6th[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I have been an ARRL member for only one year, but even if they support something I don't, I would still be a member. It would sort of be like cutting your nose off to spite your face if it were only one or two issues.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif keep the C W requirement...99% of the folks on HF learned it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif ...kd4amg

[w6th]

ke4pjw,

# # You "think" you can answer for most, but then you are not sure. The ARRL only represents its members and their votes, but does not recognize the non-members votes. # # # #So, the whole of the amateur radio is not considered. Just the ARRL membership and their votes # # #Now this you cannot deny.
# # # Thanks for your recent reply.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
# # # # # # # # # # # # # #W6th

[w8qf]

I personaly do not want the code requirement to go.CW may ne out dated and some what inefficant by todays standard but it can and will get through when all else failes.A hand full of watts and a straight key and your in buisness,no need for a balky power supply to power the PC and HF rig,a good battery a solar panel is all the power you need and will run quite a long time.If it's worth having it's worth making the effort to work for it.Now as for the original posting I found it to be quite forward as well as simple.It is good for information for those who need a better understanding of the working of our regulatory workings.This is just my position on the matter and is not intended to fight the fire with gas.Dave AE8U

[kg4uil]

Suuuuuuure, Let do away with CW. While we're at it let's do away with 50% of the questions on each test. shoot! soon everyone will be able to get a ticket, and we'll all start saying "10-4", and "Good Buddy". Dead keyers will visit from the 11 meter band, and we'll have a good ole' time. I hope my point is taken with humor. I do hope code stays. I am working on my code now. I look foward to learning it, and using it alot. If we don't have to earn the privilege to use the HF bands, they will go to heck real quick.

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Feb. 24 2003,19:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ke4pjw,

You "think" you can answer for most, but then you are not sure. The ARRL only represents its members and their votes, but does not recognize the non-members votes. So, the whole of the amateur radio is not considered. Just the ARRL membership and their votes Now this you cannot deny.
Thanks for your recent reply.

W6th[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hi w6th,
When I say something such as "I think it (ARRL) can answer for most of us.", it can be taken the wrong way. I did not mean to insinuate that I "felt" that what I was saying is correct or I was unsure if what I thought was correct. Maybe I should have been more authoritative in my response. How about this..

The ARRL can answer for most of us.

As far as your second point, I agree. If you are not an ARRL member, they have no obligation to support your ideas. This is why people who care about changes in the rules should become members. No one else has their clout.

[Debater]

Tis truly amazing! This post sat on QRZ for three days without a SINGLE comment.

Someone brings up the beaten to death topic of code versus no-code and all of a sudden the message is CLEAR and there are 49 posts within hours.

I guess we can learn to argue about anything, even if we don't fully understand what we are arguing about.

[W5HTW]

1. #Someone said the FCC supports those who want to keep the code. #That isn't likely to be accurate. #The real fact is the FCC is doing its best, under the laws, to get disentangled from amateur radio and to simplify the process as much as possible. #If the WRC2003 removes the Morse requirement, the FCC, even if just for the sake of simplification of licenses, will almost certainly do so as quickly as they can move on it. #Of course, aside from simplification, they will bend to pressure from the many thousands of no-code hams, (and a few hams with code) and the manufacturers, and open the door to the code-free ham radio. #My guess is Morse testing will no longer be a requirement in the US by early 2004.

2. #There are thousands of would-be hams, and would-be General Plus hams, who complain that they can't get the code. #Does that mean earlier generations were smarter, more industrious, or more likely to dedicate themselves to personal achievement? #Certainly it seems that way, since every ham who ever went down the pike before 1991 when the Class D Ham ticket was created, took and passed the code. #Period. #So why is it the current generation "can't?" # #Well, actually it isn't "can't." #It is "I donwanna." #Which is permeating most aspects of modern life, so ham radio just follows along with society.

3. #The philosophy prior to 1991 (or was it 1992?) was, "If you can't make the qualifications, then do something else." #If you can't play baseball because you are blind and can't see the ball, maybe you should try another sport, instead of insisting that the ball be equipped with a sounding device that you could track as it approaches you, and each base be equipped with a similar device so you could find your way around the bases, thereby changing the game for those who have played it for decades. #In other words, the idea when we taught amateur radio classes was very simple: if you can't make the grade, then you don't become a ham. # #But with the no-code invention, came the philosophy "I can't do it your way, so make it MY way." #

4. #Keep in mind that even with Morse eliminated as a testing requirement, the CW bands will not "immediately" go away. #You and I and others who enjoy this special, personal skill, will still be able to practice it, to use it to our enjoyment.

However, also keep in mind, IF the Morse requirement goes away, it opens the road for further FCC simplification of the amateur licensing structure, and I would not be at all surprised to see 'automatic' (or nearly so) upgrades for Technicians and code-free Technicians to at least General class. #That "could" dump a lot of new hams onto HF, and with our current phone band segments, that "could" mean severe overcrowding, considering that just about half of all licensed hams are no-code types. #It is undoubtedly true that many of those will have no interest in HF, especially in the husband-wife cell phone type of ham activity. #But a good many will be interested in hopping on the HF bands and chasing DX or just exercising their newly-awarded privileges. # That could bring as many as 150,000 new hams to the HF bands, and will definitely result in high pressure promotions by radio dealers to "Get on the HF bands! #Buy This Super-Blooper, Band-Whacker Radio, complete with AM/FM/SSB and high-level Roger-Beep." #It is already happening!

So where do they go? #In expanded phone bands, of course. #Which means compressed data/CW bands. #

5. #And just what IS the next step after that? #We are not, and have not been for a long time, a technical hobby. #Yes there are a few hams who are very technically qualified. #Some, though, are qualified in computers, and have the mistaken impression that makes them RADIO experts. #Others ARE qualified in radio. #But the vast majority are not. #They don't work in electronics, but are truck drivers, housewives, teachers, doctors, store clerks. #They may 'think' they are suddenly electronics experts, by nature of passing a basic amateur radio test, but that is misguided. #

With that lack of technical skill as a general statement, (remembering there are a tiny percentage of exceptions) we need to recognize, and I believe we will be forced to recognize, that we are not a "highly qualified pool of anything" and that a technical license is no longer necessary to plug in and turn on a commercial idiot proof radio. #What we DO need to know is how to stay within the band limits, operate in the proper mode, and avoid interference, as well as possibly avoiding killing ourselves. #Beyond that, we do not need to know how to design RF stages, suppress carriers, build receivers or transmitters, or make field repairs with baling wire. # That fact will probably surface with the FCC one of these days and they will change the amateur licensing procedure to a basic operating and safety test of perhaps 20 questions. #And a one-class fits all ham license. #No General, no Extra, no Advanced, or Tech - just Amateur Radio Operator.

Then, those who choose to experiment with technology, such as EHF, EME, repeaters, (not using them - building them) boat anchors, etc., will have to get "endorsements" to the ticket, with accompanying stringent technical tests. #But the average ham will get a test similar to the 1962 CB radio "exam" -- "I have read the rules and will comply." #

Whether or not we need the code as a testing requirement is not something that bothers me. #It is far too late to conserve what I am now calling "Dinosaur Radio." #Too many changes, good for some, bad for others, have come along, milk under the bridge. #We aren't going back, and certainly we ARE going forward, even if it looks like reverse to some of the old timers.

6. #On this 75/20 meter nonsense. #I work both bands frequently. #I've said this before and I'll reiterate it here. #I'm glad I live in the Southwest, away from the Coasts, since here I don't have to put up with what is apparently the trend on both coasts. I can't hear it. Here on 75 meters I sweep across the band and I hear conversations about dogs, motorcycles, flying, ham radio, linears, photography, farming, water, weather, computers, dancing, digging wells, fixing that old truck, eating out, the roads, etc. #I don't hear this crap - thankfully - that some of you think you hear on 75 meters. #Unfortunately, a lot of you have just been TOLD it occurs there and so you don't listen, but you contribute to the old wives' tale. # Even the so-called Liberty Net on 3950 has toned way, way done. #On 20 meters, there is one frequency -- 14275 or so, I don't recall exactly, -- that appears to attract flies. #Fortunately my dial is marked and I can skip that point on it, but I do listen from time to time to see if I dislike what I'm hearing. #The difference between me, and some of the complainers, is I don't jump in there and bitch about it, which really is just instigating. #I just tune away. # But on 75 meters I have looked really, really hard for all this offensive stuff I keep hearing about and I guess it's just out of my range, thankfully. # I hear a LOT less to like on 2 meters (which is why I don't get on there, either, but do occasionally listen to see if it sounds any more like ham radio. #It doesn't.)

73
Ed
W5HTW

[KD7UKT]

Ya know, sitting here reading all these diatribes about new hams brought up one simple thought:

What would a prospective ham, reading this thread, think of current hams?

Personally, I was in that boat less than three weeks ago. Because of anti-new-ham, anti-no-code, and just general anti-young-person bashing online, I nearly did not go to my license examination. I will admit it was a case of I don't wanna... specifically, "if these are hams, then I don't wanna associate with them!" Fortunately, I discovered that there are some really good people out there on the airwaves, and passed not only my Technician, but also the CW and General tests in one session.

The bottom line is, amateur radio needs all the new blood it can get. With the advances in wireless computing, it is becoming harder and harder to get people interested in good old radio. And, sad to say, but more and more old-time hams are going Silent Key every day. If we chase away enough new hams, the ham bands will slowly go silent, and then the FCC will happily parcel them out to other users.

So, is your attitude going to be exclusive or inclusive?

As for me, I choose inclusive. I have already requested the information on becoming an ARRL VE, so that I can help bring new hams into the hobby, and help ensure the survival of not only phone and data communications, but also CW.

Just my $0.02 worth.

--David, KD7UKT

[n0jwa]

I feel that the code should be dropped. More senior citizens try to pass the code test but are unable to as at an older age it is more difficult to try to remember and or learn the code. I am one who just can not get the code and there for should I be denied the right to enter the hf areas. #It would be easier for senior citizens to take a stiffer written test. But it would be nice as a senior citizen to be able to work on hf. So on that note I hope you get my point. Get rid of the code.

[n4vox]

I would first like to comment on well CW can always get through. #That is just not true. #In all of my years I can't think of a single example of all else failing and cW working. #Then we come to the comment, there has been no discussion about doing away with it in the US if the treatyl changes. #No need to discuss it until the treaty is changed. #The Dept of Defense has outlawed the use of CW on military frequencies. #The not only don't teach it in radio school, they prohibit it's use. #I can think of many bad examples of illegal radio operators. #And, most of them had passed CW and had advanced or extra tickets. #The problems #on the airwaves are people violating the FCC rules. #That is what we should be tested on and what should be vigorously enforced. #Gill N4VOX

[VA7ADR]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n4vox @ Feb. 25 2003,21http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif6)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can think of many bad examples of illegal radio operators. #And, most of them had passed CW and had advanced or extra tickets. #The problems #on the airwaves are people violating the FCC rules. #That is what we should be tested on and what should be vigorously enforced. #Gill N4VOX[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well said Gill N4VOX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kb0vvk]

I would like to see a hobby thats has three groups
tecks were they are generals with more band privleges and extra class allowed more power
if you can understand the math and do 13 wpm you can
be in extra class if you cant understand it but can pass 5wpm your a general.
I have been studying the extra manuel probley figer it out some day but the thought that comes to me when I read it how many times will I need to know all this stuf just want to talk to people want to use my radio in a enjoyable way dont want to build one from spare parts point is if you want to build things get in the extra class group if you just like to talk be a teck or a general
thank for letting me Rant
jon ericson kb0 v vk

[KG6OBC]

why dont the FCC make CW a class you can get if you want to use the CW part of the HF bands.

like you get up to general or extra and you can have the privileges of a general or extra and if you want to work the CW part of the bands you take the 5wpm test then you can work the CW part of the bands.

just my 2 penneys

OBC

[kc6ufe]

Nice work to the original poster. What a tempest in a teapot to the rest of you (us?). If all the hot air vented here was used to fill a balloon, we could all float to the moon. The bus has left the station gentlemen, you're either on it or you're not.
I dont care which side of the fence you're on, but it sure sounds to me like cw stands for 'continuous whining'. The sad thing about this argument is that everyone overstates their position (how's that for a broad generalization!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. There is truth and validity in a lot of the arguments of both sides of the issue. Sure, cw (morse) is useful, gets through when nothing else will, great when emp wipes out everything, but that argument is overstated. When was the last time it was the only way to communicate and was also important? Sure it is still used in the occasional hurricane net, but not the primary means. It doesnt keep out the rifraf, Im here! hi hi. In reality the code is easier than the written stuff, especially at the 5wpm.
My favorite arguement about lowering the code requirement is the one that states 'we need to eliminate it to get those darn kids interested, because they now have cellphones and internet'. Well, I dont think you will attract people who arent interested even if you gave them a rig and a free license! Ham radio just doesnt have utility to the average guy, the interest must come first, which is learning about radio technology.
The only argument that holds water with me for keeping the code is that it holds a special place in ham radio because it can be done with the simplest of equipment, and is fun to do. If that opinion is held by a majority, the cw should stay, if it is not held by a majority, then cw should go. That is what democracy is all about, free country, right?
Funny thing about people, when they dont get their way, they CONTINUOUSLY WHINE! Lets change that by goodwill to CONSIDERABLY WORTHWHILE.
Builds character too.

[KD7UKT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc6ufe @ Feb. 25 2003,22:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My favorite arguement about lowering the code requirement is the one that states 'we need to eliminate it to get those darn kids interested, because they now have cellphones and internet'[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Boy, talk about missing the point of my message!

I did not speak about CW in my message, except that I was hoping to keep all the amateur bands alive so that everyone, including those that enjoy CW, can still use them. My main point, however, and the one which the statement about getting new people interested, was referring to the tone of the posts here... which hasn't appreciably changed.

Do you folks want to scare off potential hams? Are you doing this out of some deep-seated desire to have the bands all to yourself? Think about this, if there are no new hams, who are you going to talk to when all your friends go Silent Key?

The point, and I will try to put this as simply as I can, is that CW or no CW, we need new hams or else the hobby as a whole will die, and thus our attitude in public forums, such as this, needs to be one that will not chase away potential hams!

--David, KD7UKT

[w5pyh]

Low code requirements and the ve program has more to dumb down amateur radio than all other things combined.
It's amazing how many so called extra class hams that have "welfare tickets" and a $30 vanity call and still haven't been able to properly operate their jap rice boxes.And now they want more C B clowns ,DUH

[kc2tr]

OK, Lets face it: CW is another language. It takes effort, skill and dedication to learn it. I have worked most of the digital modes. I can really say that the digitals are more effective in some ways, BUT, when its all over and your digital "thrill" is waning or gone, there is nothing like sitting down and switching on an old "Room warmer" and hitting that straight key. It is more satisfying, it gives a better sense of accomplishment, AND when those digital modes, which mostly rely on computers or micro processers are not available, (Power outages maybe), Whats left? What can you hook up to a 12V battery and communicate with? Why a simple CW tranciever..Try making a contact to Japan with 1-watt and a dipole with digital? No Way.. I did it, with CW and a HW-9..I feel that those (Most, not all) who want to do away with CW are affraid and want to take the easy way out at a computer keyboard. Its called "Brain Laziness". They dont want to work for anything anymore. CW was and still is, the standard every operator should gauge themselves by. Not pushing down keys on a keyboard, or programming a contest keyer. Yes: CW will maybe keep some "wannabes" out, but thats what tech licenses are for. If you want it bad enough, you will learn it to get "IN". Look at our bands now? Full of CB "Good Buddy" types. I went soley to CW-Why? because of the B.S. on the SSB bands. There is something for everyone in ham radio-you make the choice, but you dont hear the CW ops calling for the demise of digital because they cannot understand it, or to LAZY to learn it do you?..Yes I got trapped into this thread, but it pushed one of my bad buttons-to hear these fools criticize something that has been around for years, that give many ops enjoyment and last but not least, something that had to be obtained by WORKING for it. You digital folks, enjoy the hobby and the mode, you already ruined SSB, so stay where you are. I will be on CW, dont bother me and I wont bother you. And if you should decide to come down to where I am, and adhere to the standards established, you will be welcomed.

[KB1HVS]

Well, I thought I couldent do it (code) but after taking some good advice I went from 0wpm to 13 wpm with 2 months practice. The 5 wpm test is not hard.I would like to see the requriment kept but I dont think its going to happen. Oh well. Life goes on. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KC0PEB]

"Oh what a tangle web we weave..."

To KF5JQ:

Bravo on your explanation of the rule-making/amending process. #While I was aware of the cooperation of the FCC with the ITU and other nations, I was not aware of exactly how the process worked.

To the masses:

I am young (got my Technician ticket on my 28th birthday last week). #And, I have read with great interest the happenings on this thread. #I've visited this website for quite some time (before I got my ticket), and have to confess to a great deal of both pleasure and sadness. #Amateur radio is a valuable resource, and it's a shame that it has to be polluted with such controversy. #

Rant mode on:

For those of you that are so hell-bent on eliminating the code requirement: #Code is one of the reaasons I decided to get involved with amateur radio. #It is a simple and rewarding activity that should be nutured and caused to flourish. #Even though many of the older hams, the ones that were required to learn the code are now SK, and there are now more advanced ways of communicating, there is no reason CW should be considered an antiquated method of commnication. #Whether or not you want the code requirement is really a moot point; #you passed it, there is no real reason anyone that wants the HF privilege should not have to make the same effort. #However, inasmuch as this is a free country, voice your opinion, I sure am, and will contiue to do so. #For those of you that support the code requirement, the same thing applies. #For both groups, find someone ( or a group of someones) in the right places and present your opinion. #

Rant mode off

I was a bit impulsive when I took my Technician license, I was so eager to get involved, I took the test without finishing my original goal (a General ticket). #Though I am a little cockeyed in my thinking in a lot of respects, I am pretty sure that my line of thinking is very similar to that of a lot of new hams: #when I want to learn the code I will, and if I don't want to, I won't. #As the licensing requirements currently stand, passing that 5 wpm code test opens a whole new world.

Keep the requirement, drop the requirement, it doesn't matter to me. #I will learn the code, and I will use it and enjoy it. #


I don't mean to offend, and if I do, I apologize. #Just throwing out an opinion unjaded by the posts on this thread.

73's to all.

KC0PEB

[N1XHF]

Code should be eliminated from the ham tests all together. There is no reason to keep it as a requirement. Amatuer radio is about Technical know how and about communication with others. Ponder this question the old novice class had the ability to work 10 meters (of course with restrictions) but a Tech "No code" who has passed one more written exam is not allowed to use voice in 10 meters......Come on, Who everbody kidding. The only reason code is still around because you have a bunch of obsolete hard liners (sorry guys) who have had their tickets forever and want to be part of an "exclusive group". If anything the tests should be harder but the code has got to go, or start testing people on other modes like how to use psk31. Sounds stupid huh? Try making our children in the future learn about psk31 which will be "old school" by that time and they will suffer the same frustration everyone is now. Code is a good form of communication and should never stop being practiced but it is not for everone.

73's
N1XHF

[ka3qbq]

Yes, the original post rambles, but at the core of it is the old code requirement debate.

I was never a fly on the wall in an FCC conference room, but my guess is that the reduction of code requirement to 5 WPM for a US amateur radio HF license was done because it’s as close as you can get to eliminating the code requirement without ignoring international agreements. Some government was bound to do it sooner or later (the US), with other governments following suit (Australia for example).

At this point is it really worth extensively debating this issue? Is the requirement to learn Morse code for an amateur radio license realistic? No. On the other hand, is learning to copy Morse code at the slowest practical speed too demanding? Not really.

I’m sure that one of these days the code requirement will be dropped from the treaty. Until then, your choice is simple: Learn Morse code and get your HF license now, or wait indefinitely.

-Dave, KA3QBQ

[Phineas]

I see QRZ.com needed to increase their website hits again. Thanks once again to the OF-CW-Troll.

Commercialism at its finest. I will bet that a CB discussion is in the works for the next troll. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Phineas
K0KMA

[n9lya]

Code is not that hard if I can pass it anyione can....
I must admit 5 wors per minute is too easy... It only took me 9 days of studying 2 hours a day to go in and pass my code test for 5 words.. If you can study the written test you can learn code....
It not that its hard... Too many people are just to darn lazy...
It took me from 1991 til this Feb to get an upgrade it was due to nothing other than pure laziness.. So I know what I am talking about... Once I studied and passed both the code (9 days of study) and the written(3 days of study) I passed them both at the same testing session.. I admit for 12 years I was lazy... You can bet this too if you quite living in denyal..........................73 N9LYA
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

For N4VOX: Show me proof the Military doesn't even have a School for Morse code?

I'll show you a Morse code School right now, in the US Military, right here at Fort Huachuca, the only Morse School the Military has.

CW (Morse) is holding back people from becoming a ham, GOOD, becoming a ham radio operator is a choice, YOUR CHOICE. EARN the requirements or continue crying.

Did the US Government come to you and say, your going to be a ham radio operator?

Antennas are on the muck, right on Babe, buy your home under CCnR's, cry to the Government about your signed contract, you gave up your rights when you signed that contract, the key here is READ before signing.

CW (Morse) is here to stay and it will. Now, cry about the other things YOU WANT with no effort displayed, dam, crying about every petty thing that just doesn't go your way.

Freebanders are CRIMINALS, plus they have extremely foul-mouths, as do the illegal trucker's using 10 meters unlicensed daily.

EARN IT or GET OUT of the WAY.

[radio123us]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It not that its hard... Too many people are just to darn lazy...
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree with you. The question is..should we reward
their laziness by removing the code requirement ?

[n9lya]

*I agree with you. The question is..should we reward
their laziness by removing the code requirement ?

You are correct we should not....
!!!!

I went years just happy with 30 and up... Now that I have had a taste of HF I want more..

73 N9LYA http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Debater]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MattBeers @ Feb. 26 2003,00<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Other than the complete mis-statement of what the ARRL does, it was really a great article, but completely demolished by having what appears to be an intentionally misleading title attached to it.



MB[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Anyone that has posted an original article to QRZ knows
that it is not only edited but assigned a title of the moderators choice! This is evidenced by the title of this thread, "Standards for Hams", which has nothing to do with the article. In my experience the title was chosen specifically to be controversial. The editors have been successful!

This post is basically an idiot lesson for those that don't understand how things work. This website is here to make someone money. The greater the number of hits, the more advertisers, the more profit to be made.

As I stated in an earlier comment, there were zero comments regarding this thread for three days until someone brought up the subject of CODE vs NO-CODE.

Your keen desire to argue is making lots of money for someone. QRZ editors are laughing all the way to the bank. Unfortunately, the editors profit at the expense of amateur radio. #

Have fun beating each other up!

[kd5icr]

Hello gang.
I would like to get back to the topic for a min.I think the guy was trying to let us know who this works.I am a member of the ARRL but there way many more that are not This web site has a census and there or over 600,000
Hams in this country.If you want to keep CW it is up to us to let the FCC know after all we are the boss in a way.I for one will do what I can to keep CW I came from from CB (chicken band) and the last thing I want is a bunch of overtly foul mouths to stink up the bands.Yes ther are some that talk trash and if you hear them let you section manager know he can try to do something about it.I think we need to keep CW in place I am right now trying to learn the 5wpm.As some have said it is easy to learn if you just try.The hardest part is put the tape in AND JUST PUSH PLAY.You do not have to study it for 8 hours a day to get it after all is this not a hobby? to some it is a way of life not me.So lets not just give any one who wants it a free ride, I had to study on my own to get were I am at, now I go the next step to get HF.As some have said they must be LAZY to not want to learn CW.And remember there and more of us here than are in the ARRL they are not the only game in town.We have a voice with or without them,Just speak up.
73,kd5icr (aka Bill)

[kd4avp]

The emotion involved with this issue is deeply rooted and will never find a common element among the ham community. I for one agree that the time for the code to be removed as a requirement has come. It is a wonderful mode. I do not care for it personally but thats ok. I like the digital modes and voice. Its my choice just as others choose to work CW. It will never vanish from the band. I think if it is made an optional mode, you may even see it increase in use.
One key factor we need to remember is the economics of the whole issue. Look at the pool of consumers for commercial gear. Its not growing by leaps and bounds. We all know it. As I have stated before, its a matter of economics for the manufacturers and actually in their best interests to increase the user base in any way possible. There are other ways to filter the "rif-raf" from our midst. As an earlier poster stated, 20m and 80m are not always the shining example of good operating practices. We are a diverse group. I think this is one of our strengths that we must capitalize on. We all learn by example. If we set good examples, most tend to join the ranks in a like manner.

[n7uo]

Unfortunately, this thread, along with most dealing with the continuing controversy about dumbing down the Amateur Radio community has begun to delve into that age-old conflict of CW-vs-NO CW. What on earth does the minimization of CW requirements have to do with the intellect of those of us who've chosen this hobby to express ourselves?

Quickly, one can gauge the successes and failures of this line of thinking by looking at the growth (or lack of it) within our hobby. Adamantly, pro-CW folks believe they've acquired intellectual growth by becoming CW proficient. But, at what cost? If, please permit us to speculate, we were to minimize that requirement, would that alone provide the catalyst for younger persons to join with us in this wonderful hobby? I suggest, those who have been exposed to our hobby make an intelligent decision for themselves, and yes, perhaps, if we have exposed them to our CW skills, that alone may have captivated their interest, or put them off.

I believe, we've reached a crossroads in this hobby, where we must present the diversity of the hobby to those exposed rather than reinforce the integral requirement that potential candidates learn a particular mode of operation that doesn't captivate their interests.

CW is a personal decision, one that each of us has faced and either leaned into or avoided after licensing. If we provided that exposure and ultimately the personal decision of those exposed to the hobby to decide their own direction, I suspect we'd see a revitalization of the hobby with new blood, new direction, and yes, even a revitalized interest in personal decisions to pursue an interest in CW.

For many decades, those licensed in the commercial radio system chose to either qualify for a CW or Radiotelephone 1st class radio license. I suspect, that this controversial subject seldom surfaced in their licensing system and yet it survived. I am dubious that we'll see significant change in the composition of our hobby, beyond those already experienced as this hobby has undergone transition from the rigid testing processes our senior operators experienced to those that most of us have experienced. Time’s change, and hobbies change. The laws of evolution generally point a species toward improvements to survive their changing environment, and perhaps it's time we also, through evolution, begin that process. CW will always live at my residence, and I don't care if your personal choice is that you don't want it in your residence.

Frank/N7UO

[KB9YKY]

An earlier poster touched on something interesting. Might it be that the lunatics that want to dumb down the amateur radio service further by totaling eliminating even the most basic understanding of the code...be just liberals doing what they always do by nature...continuously looking for yet another handout? Is this no-code test crap just more liberalism and nothing more?

[kc8nmw]

I just recently upgraded to General and even now being done with the code, I still feel the requirement should be dropped. I wanted to talk on HF so I just put a few weeks effort into it and am enjoying the rewards.

One major arguement of keeping the code is it's efficiency and reliability in times of major QRM or likewise situations. This is true but I want one thing answered; Someone please show me a documented, not hearsay, instance when a person or property got injured and help was delayed or never came because they could not send or receive code??? Maybe such a thing happened but I would like to see a documented case where it was stated "had the individuals known Morse Code, their lives might have been saved".

Another arguement from amateurs is how "I had to do it, so you should also" That doesnt fly with me. I dont feel that just because I had to learn it everyone else does. If you enjoy code wonderful, in fact keep doing it. Remember it is not being suggested that the CW portions of the bands be dropped just the requirement. So those of you who do code will be able to keep at it.

The older hams feel the hobby is getting dumbed down. It is not, we are just doing things differently. I remember in 2000 when the code was dropped to 5wpm across the board everyone screamed "this is the end of ham radio, we will get cb kind of people on the band", etc.

Well guys we are still hear. I suppose when the FCC came out with the no code tech license everyone screamed and thought the hobby was finished. Well hear we are some ten years later. Just from observation I really think alot of you would want to see a situation where someone's lack of knowing code led to their getting hurt or worse. The way some of you respond to this kind of debate leads me to no other conclusion. You are just looking for some sick reason to say "I told you so".

Instead of looking for the bad in things, why not look for the good? What GOOD things will come out of dropping the code??? More licensed amateurs, more people on HF, more reason for the FCC to let us have our bandspace.

You people that always look for the negative and doom and gloom really need to find something else to worry about. You are pessimists and do absolutely nothing to promote the hobby. I am an optimist and look for what good can come out of something. Especially in a case like this where realistically nothing bad will happen at all if they drop the code requirement.

I suppose alot of you are going to write back and say I am wrong or I havent been in the hobby long enough (3 years) and so on and so on. Go ahead but I think I have a point and am not the first one to have the ideas stated above.

The truth hurts alot of times doesnt it??

Talk to you all down the log

[wb9gkz]

I SEE THE SILLY CW DEBATE GOES ON. I WAS GOING TO COMMENT....BUT I NEED TO DO SOMETHING MORE IMPORTANT, GOTTA GO CHECK THE LINT-TRAP IN THE WIFE'S DRYER.

PAT WB9GKZ

[KB9YKY]

Only one positive thing could come out of dropping the code test entirely...that being that the real hams would toss out their mics and ONLY use cw...as doing such would be the most effective way to distinguish the hams from the cbers that would flood in to destroy the amateur radio service.

[NO7C]

CW "To be or not to be..." Some do, some don't; some will, some won't. This question will never have a solution suitable for everyone so why beat it to death.
We who want it need to realize the requirement may be removed. Those who want it removed need to come to grips with the fact it may remain a requirement. Then we ALL need to get on with life.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
73, no7c

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif if the C W is dropped as a requirement, then the HF bands "might " be flooded with " cb types "...so they would LEAVE 26 - 27 Mhz...sooo, then the CB channels would be a LOT quieter, and folks there COULD communicate like in the "good old days " with the "riff-raff" gone to the HF frequencies...Also, stations like K1MAN would have a larger audience, PLUS a few "copy-cat " stations would appear to BROADCAST their views of # important topics of the day ", from the RASH of new Hf operators #( this would be on 20 meters )....sooo the TEN meter problem may dissappear with the TRUCKERS, etc ( they would want to use 20 / 40 /80 meters, too, especially at night with a wider audience for their VULGARITY )...sooo with the sunspot cycle going into a LOW period of ionization ( less skip ).. the ideal areas to be in for QUIET communications may be from (guess) 25 - 30 Mhz.... only time will tell ....** some one e-mailed me and told me that my station sounded "weak and muffled "...THANK YOU for the compliment, now I have room for improvement in a almost-perfect world of HF, shucks I have only been on HF for less than a full month, what can you expect ? With 50 watts out of a radio, and a no-gain di-pole, you expect a +30 on the s-meter ? The best part is that "you heard ME, and that is ALL that matters. "....back to 14.275 or 14.313 for a daily update on the IMPORTANT news of the day http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .( KEEP the CODE )..kd4amg

[ai4ep]

got to keep my TRI-focals cleaned...reading one of the post above this one about the "lint in the DRYER "...I thought at first it said " DRAWERS "... got to keep these TRI-focals clean more often.hi hi hi...back to my H F radio b-4 the no-coders take over...(KEEP the CODE ) ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ...kd4amg

[k5co]

Removing a Morse Code requirement from Ham radio licensing would be a very big mistake. The hobby has already been dumbed down to the point where we have a lot of silly people taking up space and spectrum.
The code has some very basic value for communications.
We do not need the "CB'ers" messing up the ham HF frequencies. They are already out of control on eleven meters and the FCC had to abandon regulation. Imagine if this same group of low intellects were turned loose on HF! There may as well not be an Amatuer hobby at all as it would surely be destroyed. Amatuers are both experimenters and public service oriented; lose the hobby and we loose a lot. Forget about whay the Europeans want; they can go their own way.
KD5PSH

[KB3GFF]

I figured I might as well put in my two cents on this topic, since it's the biggest issue in ham radio since the transistor. I've been licensed for two years tomorrow, I am a General class operator who only had to pass 5 wpm. I never had any need to know code because I had an HTX-10, so over time I forgot it. Now I have an Icom 718, so I'm trying to relearn the code, to make use out of it. Personally I think Morse code is an integral part of the Amateur Radio Service, although I'm not knocking newer, digital modes. I think that even if they did away with the code requirement, we could still enjoy ham radio as much as we do now. As long as the FCC enforces the band plans for HF frequencies we should still be able to enjoy it. Let the slack-jawed yokels from CB and the phone operators I hear on 40, 75 , and 160 have their fun. You all know who I'm talking about, people who use 12 of the 13 words you can't say on the air. While their busy ruining the phone portion for themselves, the rest of us considerate operators and people who actually did learn code, or in my case relearn code, will be kicked back, enjoying our QSO's at the bottom half of the band. I guess I'm being naive to think the former CBer's will stay on their portion of the bands though, they sure can't do it on 11M. We all know how disciplined they are, one day you'll be working some hot QRP DX coming from Australia, Japan, or the Marshall Isalnds or something like that and some trucker who thinks he owns all the amateur frequencies will plow right over you with 500 watts of AM and a roger beep, because thats all they know. I'm sure we all can't wait for that day right. The thing that scares me the most is that someday, there won't even be a test for ham radio, you'll send in your $100 application fee and get a license, just like GMRS radio. I'm not professing to be the ham radio guru, I know very little about modern radios, that's why my HTX-10 is now a decorative piece, it broke and I couldn't fix it. In the end, we all want the same thing, our ham radio, our ability to speak into a little metal box and have our voice be heard around the world. As far as one person mentioned about cases where a person needed CW when nothing else worked; why do you need proof?

The best thing about code that I can say, is that breaks down all the barriers and classes in our society. When your using code, the other ham doesn't know your race, sex, age, or economic class. Your just a beeping in his or her ear. It is an acquired skill that takes time to learn like any other language.

# # KB3GFF

P.S. Since I'm new to this, and still learning all the terms, can anyone tell me what a LID is

[AE6HR]

Ok, let us be donkey brained elitist fools. Everyone of you who can't use a Unix or Multics like operating system (or even decently use dos and dos batch files), please throw your computer out the door this instant. Never buy another one again under penalty of law. You are dumbing down a great hobby and a very useful communication/processing tool.

Those of you who are not involved in government/military, research, or education, please cancel your INTERNET service, so we can bring it back to the good old days of NSANet or DARPANet.

In fact, let us just do this the correct way. If you can't write assembler, C, and Pascal programs, please again, throw away your computer. If you can't understand a HEX dump of a TCP/IP packet (whether it be UDP, IP, TCP, ICMP, or any other form of datagram), please immediately remove your network card or modem and cancel your INTERNET connection. Make sure you tell your boss that you can't touch a computer or network because you dumb down the hobby and the industry and hence there are now federal laws requiring that you don't touch anything computer based (televisions, watches, calculators, your car, etc.). Make sure that you give him your notice so that you aren't fired.

(Before I move on, yes I am still here because I meet most, if not all of those requirements, though my knowledge of TCP/IP at the bit/byte level is not perfect. How about you?)

Now about the Morse Code with no sarcasm...

There are people who have more difficulty in learning some things than others. To call them lazy is ridiculous. I will use my father as an example. He is a wonderful guy. Probably a harder and more determined worker than most of you calling the people who don't want CW to be a requirement lazy. He is an Eagle Scout. Back then CW was required at about 5 words a minute. He is scared to try to become a HAM, though he wants to, because he had such a difficult time learning it back then. He has "nightmares" about it, he said. He is an electrical engineer by degree (actually, was missing one class because of university elitism denying the school he went to the ability to have the class...). He has great communication, science, and engineering skills. So, as you can see, he isn't stupid either. Lazy, I doubt it. Before I was born, while he was in college, with a wife and three kids he went full time (finished in three years, instead of four), had 2-4 full time jobs the entire time. Usually getting 2-3 hours of sleep at night a best... all to quickly finish school and provide for his family. He grew up on a farm, knows hard work. When he visits his father, they go to the farm and work all day long. Even now, with some health problems, he works his rear end off at home and at work.... so I don't think you dare call him lazy, for you would be a hypocritical lying fool. However, he is for removing the requirement, last we talked about it, so he could use his technical knowledge, have means of excellent emergency communication, and have fun with the hobby with me and maybe other family members.

As people have pointed out CW is NOT used by anyone but hams these days. I am not against CW, just not for the requirement. Sure, it is wonderful and people SHOULD learn it, but that is SHOULD not MUST. There are people, like me, who have difficulty with perceiving time, it makes it nearly impossible to learn music and CW. I know, I spent 7 years learning piano... I stink compared to many people I know who spent less time practicing and have only been at it for a few months. Yes, I passed CW, barely, it is still VERY hard for me, even with a lot of practice. I know others who have even more difficulty with perceiving time. There are many other VALID and REAL disorders or differently-abled (read handicap if you will) issues that can make CW impossible. Yet, they are smart, understand radio (as my dad probably does) better than most of you Extras and Generals who are complaining. They communicate excellently; most precise, direct and concise. They are interested in the service aspect as well as the hobby aspect, yet you wish to keep them off HF?

Again, being elitist as we are, please make my favorite hobby (computers) more fun and more profitable for me by kindly going through the list at the beginning of this message and be sure to throw away your computer and network connections and kindly report yourself to the IEEE or ACM or some other body (whether government or professional association) and make sure to add yourself to a list of banned people who are just too stupid and lazy to use a computer.

After all, I bet you rely on a virus scanner, more than good practices to keep your computer safe. You probably aren't running a firewall of any kind. HOW STUPID AND LAZY CAN YOU BE. Obviously, very... look at all the worms and viruses that slow down the INTERNET.... they are caused by exactly such stupidity. If people weren't so lazy or stupid, they couldn't spread fast enough, for the most part, to cause such slow downs.

Thank you for authorizing other professionals and hobbyists to be elitist idiots. I am sure they will come down hard on you. After all, you probably couldn't build an engine or really fix it, but you drive a car.

For those of you who are good mechanical engineers and good with computer science, this message obviously isn't targeted at you with content, but the idea still holds.

Yes, this hobby should require technical know how, that is part of the hobby. But communication is the main part. Morse Code, as wonderful and useful as it is, really isn't used in the world at large anymore. CW should be STRONGLY RECOMMENDED, but not REQUIRED.

I think most of you should not have been allowed in college, because you failed to be matriculated properly. You know not Greek, Latin, nor Hebrew. You shouldn't be allowed to speak, because you can't use an outmoded, mostly more efficient, language. So why should you be allowed to communicated at all.

Okay, enough with the elitist diatribe. Think about all of this before you are elite. Work to help people who are "LIDS" to be better. Most just don't have the experience, or the appropriate background, to help them be anything else.

Just like the INTERNET (which I do hate you people who can't run firewalls, who refuse to check out an attachment before you click, who download all this software, etc., all without proper precautions), HAM radio is a social system. It requires everyone to work together for it to work properly. One bad egg, ONE, will cause it to be ruined for everyone else. Complaining does no good.

Have you ever wondered why most religions teach that we should treat others well and help them out? It is for this very reason: EVERTHING worthwhile is a cooperative/social system. Everyone must do their part, everyone must teach, everyone must help, or it all falls to pieces completely. Complaining only makes it worse. You add more negativitiy and hate, you make the signal to noise ratio so bad that nothing is worthwhile.

"To increase the number of trained radio technicians and radio operators..." or some such in the rules. CW isn't really used, it is largely irrelevant except to HAMs and in SOME very specific emergency situations (some military people still use it, because of the hazards in which they operate), but yes, by and large, even the military doesn't use it in emergencies. So, lets train people in radio theory, radio operation/repair/design, and in radio communication. I am all for that... all for requiring that. CW doesn't apply as is true of Greek, Hebrew and Latin in most communication and life.

For those questioning: no, I am not a communist. I am a hard core capitalist. I just have realized things, as did the genuis John Nash in his "Games as the Foundation for Understanding Complex Economic Issues." Coopetition leads to better results than does socialism, communism or the greedy, and flawed, western view of Capitalism... "all for me, none for you."

[WM5L]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Phineas @ Feb. 26 2003,07http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I see QRZ.com needed to increase their website hits again. Thanks once again to the OF-CW-Troll.

Commercialism at its finest. I will bet that a CB discussion is in the works for the next troll. <!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Phineas
K0KMA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
#You have hit the nail on the head Phineas! Only the [HOT] topics get posted on here to promote fighting! Instead of coming together as friends, people call each other names and "Flame" each other behind bogus names with no callsign...Jim/WM5L

I hope it doesn't go away completely, but I really don't see a use for it. The only reason I would like to see some requirement for it is because I had to pass 5 WPM to get into HF. Maybe a good idea would be to give General class over to 0WPM and keep 5WPM for Extra for now. This would give people a place to practice sending code while trying to learn it and still reserve a slightly more exclusive set of frequencies for Extra's.

[AE6HR]

n8ary: I like your idea. Sure, let people be general, not extra without code. That would work.

You would allow people on, and use most things, but still give people something to work for.

Good thought.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif yes, the local "cb repair shops " are going to have to get information as to MIKE wiring diagrams for hooking up ECHO mics to kenwood ts-2000 model radios, and installing "noise toys " inside a yeasu ft-847 or an old 101 E X...folks will be "re-hooking " up the BAND switches on the front of the AMATEUR linear amps they were just using for 11 meters, so the amplifiers will work on 20 / 40 / 80 meters. ...( KEEP the CODE )...kd4amg

[KB9YKY]

If the cw test requirement is done away with...probably the next thing to go will be the vfo. For the new flood on HF the rigs will be channelized for the new world of what was the Amateur Radio Service. Ranger will quickly become the leading equipment manufacturer for the new market...and will produce all band HF radios complete with roger-beep and internal reverberator. Isn't liberalism just wonderful? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AE6HR @ Feb. 26 2003,11:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Everyone of you who can't use a Unix or Multics like operating system (or even decently use dos and dos batch files), please throw your computer out the door this instant. #Never buy another one again under penalty of law. #You are dumbing down a great hobby and a very useful communication/processing tool.

Those of you who are not involved in government/military, research, or education, please cancel your INTERNET service, so we can bring it back to the good old days of NSANet or DARPANet.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


HAA! Now thats a good one. HIHIHI! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif If that is not the truth, there is not truth out there. LOL

Aloha,
Thomas
W4MDL

[on1dju]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Feb. 26 2003,13:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif yes, the local "cb repair shops " are going to have to get information as to MIKE wiring...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't understand what you're trying to tell us, or do you mean that current VHF (and up) people are nothing more than CB'ers ? #(while listening on HF, I sometimes have different ideas BTW)

As far as I know we have both passed the same technical exam, so I don't know why you feel yourself superior to me ? #The suggestion is to remove the morse code requirement... not to remove a license requirement !

Maybe we should introduce a computer, or even TCP/IP and AX.25 exam before we let people like you onto VHF ? #Afterall, the fact that packet radio is used on VHF is as relevant as CW is used on HF.

[wk4ds]

I keep seeing the words "code has no practical purpose" over and over and over. If you think about it, none of the equipment or modes of operation, we buy and use, has a practical purpose, other than personal entertainment..... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W7WIK]

Keep the code... If you're too lazy to learn the code then you shouldn't be on HF... my opinion. #It's 5 WPM... gimme a break. It only takes a little bit of WORK. #Don't people know what work is these days? # What kind of satisfaction does instant gratification give you? - Not much in my opinion. #I think if we still had a code requirement for ALL license classes there wouldn't be so much whining. # The code has nothing to do with how useful CW is, it has everything to do with being a filter for people who want something for nothing. #I don't care if you never use it once you passed the test. #Quit the whining and learn the code. #A few minutes a day for a month and you're there - not hard. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC2HLI]

I guess when and if the FCC drops the 5 WPM, they will also change the name from Amateur Radio Service to Family Radio Service. I think that sums it up.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif imagine #the new models of HF radios ( after elimination of cw mode and licencing requirements )... the new mobile rigs will have PA switches, switchable ROGER BEEPS, dual ECHO controls, and a few other options #(( galaxy already offers these features on their "10" meter rigs ))..so the other brands will not be far behind...can see it now : uniden/cobra #introduces a complete HF rig, general coverage receiver 1 Mhz ---30 Mhz, and all the OLD amateur bands PLUS 40 channel cb am/ssb... you even get a refund discound of (x) dollars #when shown proof of the "new" no-code-HF-no-licence- licence, available at your local cb dealer. hi hi hi #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ...( KEEP the CODE )...kd4amg

[KC0NVI]

Well, My turn on this ride...
Is it just me, or am I seeing a lot of spelling errors from the folks that are complaining that they want the code to stay. If that is what code does for a person, then I'll have to think twice about upgrading.

People, Please, I will not offer any excuse, nor will any be accepted. I took my test, to become a Ham Radio Operator, and now that I have it (short time actually), I am just starting to enjoy it, and learning. I am using it as my "Learner's Permit" if you will. Would I be real upset if code was not required for General Class, no. But I would be if it was eliminated for the Extra Class.
These are individuals that are to be our forefathers, if you will. But it seems that many of them are the one's that are posting and bitching the most.
Please do not bring yourselves to a level below at which you operate, you have earned the license, so be proud. Those that have earned General, you have something to be proud of as well, not to take anything away from your efforts.
But, I have only a Technician Class, but don't take away anything from me or those like me. For some of us, trying to pass the test, was hard enough, for some reason or another, so yes, you have taken the tests, and have advanced your license, and I'm sure you have used some of what it has afforded you, but I know of very few Extra class operators, that use barley more then what General offers.

My tech tickets lets me learn, as it does others. I am no less a Ham Radio Operator then a General Class or an Extra Class, but to read some of the postings, one would get the impression that being the low man on the ladder means nothing. To those who have found a few of the posts offensive, please consider the source, and do not give up. Being a Ham Radio Operator does mean a lot, and is something to be proud of.

I have been trying to learn the code, but thanks to an accident it makes it harder, but that doesn't mean I want it given to me either. But for those that wish to operate in this mode, perhaps a endorsement for CW much like that for the Tech-Plus, otherwise, stay out of the room, listen all you like, but I do not see this happening, but it would be nice.
I'd like to advance to General, but will take MY time to do so, and WILL NOT allow those that have already accomplished the task, to push me. I can not stand other driver's on the road that follow to closely either, and I tend to stop just to see the look on their faces.

So to the other TECH Class Ops reading along. I hope you enjoy what you have EARNED, I know I am, dispite those that think we are not Ham Radio Operators or rather REAL ones anyway.

We'll see what is in store for the future of Ham Radio soon enough. Hold on... This could be one hell of radio folks... The debate is ongoing, but will be settled soon I am certain, then most will find something else to complain about.

73's

Randy
KC0NVI - (This is a REAL)

[VA5EMT]

Hi I am a new ham having just recieved my basic license in Canada. I am going to attempt to get my code endorsement soon, however seeing that requirement code go away may lead to two different things.
1. We may see more operators who might be better off on the C.B. band!
2. We might see more "good" operators who want to operate on the ham bands, and are afraid or unable to pass the code tests.

I think the initial statement on this was a little wordy but easy to digest.<