View Full Version : MMSN & Field Day operators....
WX2MIG
06-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Seriously people, anyone that's been on the HF bands for more than 5 minutes knows that 14.300 Mhz is busy morning noon and night with service nets. Whether it's the Innercon Net, Maritime Mobile Service Net, or Pacific Seafarer's Net 14.300 Mhz is in operation providing a service for the general good.
Why is it that some feel their field day operations supersede any long established service net, is the ignorance level of the amateur radio population really getting that high.....?
6 times through out the day today I have had to break in and ask those calling out CQ Field Day that they are interfering with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and to please move their operation to another frequency.
There is plenty of radio spectrum out there to play field day on, those of us who take the service provided on 14.300 Mhz seriously, would appreciate it if all other amateur operators would show a little respect to those who either contribute to, or utilize the services provided on 14.300 Mhz.
It's really not too much to ask.....
I certainly hope everyone enjoys their field day operations, I wish you all much success, and many contacts, just not on 14.300 Mhz.....
KC0ZZH
06-28-2009, 12:07 AM
Seriously people, anyone that's been on the HF bands for more than 5 minutes knows that 14.300 Mhz is busy morning noon and night with service nets. Whether it's the Innercon Net, Maritime Mobile Service Net, or Pacific Seafarer's Net 14.300 Mhz is in operation providing a service for the general good.
Why is it that some feel their field day operations supersede any long established service net, is the ignorance level of the amateur radio population really getting that high.....?
6 times through out the day today I have had to break in and ask those calling out CQ Field Day that they are interfering with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and to please move their operation to another frequency.
There is plenty of radio spectrum out there to play field day on, those of us who take the service provided on 14.300 Mhz seriously, would appreciate it if all other amateur operators would show a little respect to those who either contribute to, or utilize the services provided on 14.300 Mhz.
It's really not too much to ask.....
I certainly hope everyone enjoys their field day operations, I wish you all much success, and many contacts, just not on 14.300 Mhz.....
Why is it some individuals feel that a particular frequency is assigned just to them and them only?
Now if you REALLY want to get people riled up, call "CQ Contest" on the 20 meter SSTV frequencies. These guys know how to get rid of SSB QRM on "their" frequencies. :)
Tom KC0W
KC0ZZH
06-28-2009, 12:20 AM
Now if you REALLY want to get people riled up, call "CQ Contest" on the 20 meter SSTV frequencies. These guys know how to get rid of SSB QRM on "their" frequencies. :)
Tom KC0W
I'd love to hear that...
AB9LZ
06-28-2009, 01:04 AM
I'd love to hear that...
they simply open up with pictures of their elderly mothers in bathing suites; when you flip on the soundcard to see what all of he racket is all about, woh, nasty.... I'll never mess with them again.
btw, field day has to be more important the any "net" in the grand wackeriffic scheme of things. Let them have the frequency
73 m/4TW
W5HTW
06-28-2009, 01:26 AM
Seriously people, anyone that's been on the HF bands for more than 5 minutes knows that 14.300 Mhz is busy morning noon and night with service nets. Whether it's the Innercon Net, Maritime Mobile Service Net, or Pacific Seafarer's Net 14.300 Mhz is in operation providing a service for the general good.
Why is it that some feel their field day operations supersede any long established service net, is the ignorance level of the amateur radio population really getting that high.....?
6 times through out the day today I have had to break in and ask those calling out CQ Field Day that they are interfering with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and to please move their operation to another frequency.
There is plenty of radio spectrum out there to play field day on, those of us who take the service provided on 14.300 Mhz seriously, would appreciate it if all other amateur operators would show a little respect to those who either contribute to, or utilize the services provided on 14.300 Mhz.
It's really not too much to ask.....
I certainly hope everyone enjoys their field day operations, I wish you all much success, and many contacts, just not on 14.300 Mhz.....
Those three nets are on the air LONG before Field Day starts. By any rule of 'who has the frequency' they do. At least on Saturday!
When those nets fire up on Sunday, it is a different matter. They will have relinquished the frequency when they shut down Saturday night, and in the "first come, first served" approach, FD operators have the right to the frequency.
I am a very strong supporter of those nets. They defintely do a lot of good. But they do not own the frequency. I actually wish they did, but they do not.
In fairness, when they close the Seafarer's net at 7 pm, the frequency is clear.
I think Intercon starts at 8 AM, every day of the year. The MMSN follows at noon, except on Saturdays when the Coast Guard net runs from 11 AM to noon (all times Eastern.)
True, the majority of hams who have been around a while are aware of that, and do not take over the frequency. But again, by law, whoever has the frequency 'has it' and the MMSN or Intercon cannot take it over with brute force.
Sorry, but that is the truth of amateur radio.
Ed
Uhhhh...sorry. No one "owns" a particular frequency. Additionally, your "all-important" operations take a back-seat when one of the biggest days in Ham Radio are happening. Sorry...just the way it is.
Cheers,
Brandon
WA6MHZ
06-28-2009, 03:19 AM
Kind of like trying to harness the WAVES coming in from the sea.
FORGET IT!!!!!!!!!
It's Field Day!
No nets, no SSTV, no DXing, No Ragchewing!! ONLY FIELD DAY!!!!!
These Nets can get by for one day a year letting the FD'ers having it.
They can try to maintain the nets, but it just isn't going to happen.
This is the BUSIEST DAY OF THE YEAR for the bands.
Have your net tomorrow. TODAY is Field Day, and that is what is going to happen.
There is plenty of radio spectrum out there to play field day on, those of us who take the service provided on 14.300 Mhz seriously, ....
... should get a life.... :rolleyes:
I certainly hope everyone enjoys their field day operations, I wish you all much success, and many contacts, just not on 14.300 Mhz.....
You don't own the frequency. Get over it. :rolleyes:
It should work BOTH ways
§97.101 General standards.
(a) In all respects not specifically covered by FCC Rules each amateur station must be operated in accordance with good engineering and good amateur practice.
(b) Each station licensee and each control operator must cooperate in selecting transmitting channels and in making the most effective use of the amateur service frequencies. No frequency will be assigned for the exclusive use of any station.
(c) At all times and on all frequencies, each control operator must give priority to stations providing emergency communications, except to stations transmitting communications for training drills and tests in RACES
WN9HJW
06-28-2009, 10:54 AM
Some nets seem consider it to be "interference" if anyone is within 5 or 10 kHz either side of them. They not only think they own a frequency, but a 10 or 20 kHz swath of frequencies.
...and it's not "Innercon" but rather "Intercon"...as in, "Intercontinental Traffic Net". :rolleyes:
WN9HJW
06-28-2009, 12:13 PM
And besides, self-appointed "Frequency Cops" "breaking in" tend to cause far more interference to nets than the allegedly interfering stations.
It's net control's job to manage the frequency, not the spectators.
Those three nets are on the air LONG before Field Day starts. By any rule of 'who has the frequency' they do. At least on Saturday!
I think there's a difference between actually using a frequency for a net and squatting on a frequency to keep anybody else from using it. Most of the time on 14.300 you can hear the crickets chirping, people griping about their lumbago while sailing to Aruba, etc..., until someone actually tries to use the frequency for something other than a "net". It's like turning on a switch.
Would one of the dedicated net heads please show me the section of Part 97 which says the maritime net, or any other collection of squaters, gets to use 14.300 as some kind of quasi guard channel in perpetuity?
Seriously people, anyone that's been on the HF bands for more than 5 minutes knows that 14.300 Mhz is busy morning noon and night with service nets. Whether it's the Innercon Net, Maritime Mobile Service Net, or Pacific Seafarer's Net 14.300 Mhz is in operation providing a service for the general good.
Why is it that some feel their field day operations supersede any long established service net, is the ignorance level of the amateur radio population really getting that high.....?
6 times through out the day today I have had to break in and ask those calling out CQ Field Day that they are interfering with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and to please move their operation to another frequency.
There is plenty of radio spectrum out there to play field day on, those of us who take the service provided on 14.300 Mhz seriously, would appreciate it if all other amateur operators would show a little respect to those who either contribute to, or utilize the services provided on 14.300 Mhz.
It's really not too much to ask.....
I certainly hope everyone enjoys their field day operations, I wish you all much success, and many contacts, just not on 14.300 Mhz.....
Too bad the MMSN doesn't practice what it preaches. Ive had several contests on which I've been operating on 14299 or 14302 or even 14300 long before the "net" begins, only to be jammed by them as soon as 0700 local arrives.
Too bad the MMSN doesn't practice what it preaches. Ive had several contests on which I've been operating on 14299 or 14302 or even 14300 long before the "net" begins, only to be jammed by them as soon as 0700 local arrives.
That is ok though, it is "their" frequency :p
Sheesh how can you not know that ;) :p :cool:
That is ok though, it is "their" frequency :p
Sheesh how can you not know that ;) :p :cool:
God how could I forget. 24/7 regardless of if its occupied.
Im listening to their tripe right now - "14.300 has been designated by the IARU as a emergency center of activity". What a load.
Too bad the IARU has no regulatory authority over the USA or most any country.
WN9HJW
06-28-2009, 04:26 PM
"14.300 has been designated by the IARU as a emergency center of activity". What a load.
Actually the IARU did designate 14.300 as "center of activity" frequency in the event of emergency.
However, the nets that camp on the frequency interpret to mean that they and only they can use the frequency, regardless of whether or not there is any emergency.
In fact their web site demands that they not only have that frequency but that nobody else should ever operate within 5 kHz around it.
And the IARU also designated a frequency on 17m for the same purpose. But would the nets ever move up to 17m to avoid contest problems? Not a chance.
Yah, in the event of an emergency. I dont hear any emergencies currently.
K7JEM
06-28-2009, 04:44 PM
Whackers. 14.300 must be the new "channel 9", and their net must be the official steward of that frequency.
Could a GOOD net controller simply work with the field day people and make an occasional call for anyone needing assistance? I mean it is only IF there is an emergency.
That would help the field day person and the net controller with the following
§97.101 General standards.
(a) In all respects not specifically covered by FCC Rules each amateur station must be operated in accordance with good engineering and good amateur practice.
Damn right! lol
Kind of like trying to harness the WAVES coming in from the sea.
FORGET IT!!!!!!!!!
It's Field Day!
No nets, no SSTV, no DXing, No Ragchewing!! ONLY FIELD DAY!!!!!
These Nets can get by for one day a year letting the FD'ers having it.
They can try to maintain the nets, but it just isn't going to happen.
This is the BUSIEST DAY OF THE YEAR for the bands.
Have your net tomorrow. TODAY is Field Day, and that is what is going to happen.
WX2MIG
06-28-2009, 09:22 PM
So then I'm to understand from the majority of replies here that during contests and field day long standing courtesies and etiquette are off the table......???
No one here is claiming ownership to any one frequency, but what makes field day any more important in purpose then the nets held on 14.300. Just because they serve no purpose to any one individual here does not make then any less important to those the nets do serve.
Just a couple weeks back a 42 foot sailing vessel broke the coupling on it's auxiliary propeller shaft, the shaft slid back and jammed the rudder leaving this vessel dead in the water with no steerage. The vessel was located over Diamond Shoals off the Cape Hatteras coast, not a good place to loose power or streerage. They were out of VHF range and could not contact the Coast Guard for help. They did have amateur radio equipment onboard, made contact with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and the net provided assistance, got in contact with the USCG, relaid the vessel's position, and got them help, and maintained contact with the vessel until it was safely in harbor.
Now how would any of you like to be in that guys position on field day, and not be able to make contact with the MMSN because field day is so much more important than life at sea.......
Just a little common courtesy people, that's all anyone here is asking.....
KD7MSC
06-28-2009, 09:42 PM
So then I'm to understand from the majority of replies here that during contests and field day long standing courtesies and etiquette are off the table......???
No one here is claiming ownership to any one frequency, but what makes field day any more important in purpose then the nets held on 14.300. Just because they serve no purpose to any one individual here does not make then any less important to those the nets do serve.
Just a couple weeks back a 42 foot sailing vessel broke the coupling on it's auxiliary propeller shaft, the shaft slid back and jammed the rudder leaving this vessel dead in the water with no steerage. The vessel was located over Diamond Shoals off the Cape Hatteras coast, not a good place to loose power or streerage. They were out of VHF range and could not contact the Coast Guard for help. They did have amateur radio equipment onboard, made contact with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and the net provided assistance, got in contact with the USCG, relaid the vessel's position, and got them help, and maintained contact with the vessel until it was safely in harbor.
Now how would any of you like to be in that guys position on field day, and not be able to make contact with the MMSN because field day is so much more important than life at sea.......
Just a little common courtesy people, that's all anyone here is asking.....
If I was in trouble at sea I would not want to depend 100% on Amateur Radio. If your vessel is out of Vhf range then you should have a marine HF radio on board. I think the net does serve a purpose but there are many other vessels in the water that do not have Ham Radio on board and they manage just fine.
This same subject comes up after every SSB contest and Field Day. If you plan on taking a sailing trip and depend only on 14300 for your only communications then consider scheduling your trip around contests :D
Can't we all just get along? :p
Let me start by saying that I never have operated on the frequency in question. Yes, like most of us who have been licensed for more than a month or two, I know that the net whackers believe that they have a sanctioned right and privilege to those sacred frequencies.
Rather than debate them, I avoid those frequencies for the most part.
However, it gets very tiring to hear these complaints after every major amateur radio event like Field Day. How is it that these folks seem not to be able to endure any QRM and "need" a certain frequency plus guard bands?
QRM is a fact of life on the HF bands. If the net in question had any competent net controls there would not be any issues. A good net control would be able to operate the net in spite of QRM, and if it got too bad, would move the net to an alternate frequency.
What you folks need is some good leadership and competent net controls. Dictating a net frequency plus guard bands is unacceptable to the community at large.
So, while we are on the subject of competency, what good sailor would go out of sight of land without a full complement of certified marine VHF and HF radios? Having only a marine VHF and an amateur radio sounds pretty stupid to me.
Yeah, I've heard all the arguments here about the poor sailors who sail the world with only their bare necessities. Good for them, at least they are not demanding a slice of amateur spectrum to subsidize their risk!
Most folks with an ounce of common sense would not sail a boat without the necessary communications equipment, and that is NOT ham gear!
If a small segment of amateur operators wants to continue in their make-believe coast guard activities, well, OK. Just don't expect that the world at large will indulge your play time.
Now, having said all that, remember I for one, stay clear of your silly net, and most of the other time wasting nets that infest the HF bands. Call it common courtesy, or rule of the majority or whatever, but as a result, could we also knock off the ever present after contest QRM rants?
Turnabout is fair play after all.
73 Gary
So then I'm to understand from the majority of replies here that during contests and field day long standing courtesies and etiquette are off the table......???
No one here is claiming ownership to any one frequency, but what makes field day any more important in purpose then the nets held on 14.300. Just because they serve no purpose to any one individual here does not make then any less important to those the nets do serve.
Just a couple weeks back a 42 foot sailing vessel broke the coupling on it's auxiliary propeller shaft, the shaft slid back and jammed the rudder leaving this vessel dead in the water with no steerage. The vessel was located over Diamond Shoals off the Cape Hatteras coast, not a good place to loose power or streerage. They were out of VHF range and could not contact the Coast Guard for help. They did have amateur radio equipment onboard, made contact with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and the net provided assistance, got in contact with the USCG, relaid the vessel's position, and got them help, and maintained contact with the vessel until it was safely in harbor.
Now how would any of you like to be in that guys position on field day, and not be able to make contact with the MMSN because field day is so much more important than life at sea.......
Just a little common courtesy people, that's all anyone here is asking.....
Diamond Shoals is 15nm off Cape Hatteras. How could they not have VHF coverage? Open water with radio installations located on Cape Hatteras (including a USCG sector office on the Cape), I'm not understanding how they could not contact the USCG.
Different year.. Same arguments..
Yawn.. I am going to get some sleep.. Can't wait for next FD
WA6MHZ
06-28-2009, 10:52 PM
One year, there was a Hurricane, and the Hurricane net was operational for emergency traffic. ARRL put out a notice asking FD Participants to keep that frequency clear, and they did. It was a declared Emergency.
So if there is a valid reason as in this case, the FD people will abide.
Otherwise, the Freqs are FREE GAME!
I know I worked my share of stations and called CQ on these "Guarded Frequencies". Field Day takes priority over EVERYTHING except Emergency Communications.
They did have amateur radio equipment onboard, made contact with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and the net provided assistance, got in contact with the USCG, relaid the vessel's position, and got them help, and maintained contact with the vessel until it was safely in harbor.
That would have been an interesting one to hear. Did stations stand by, or did it turn out like this:
I heard a boat in distress being "helped" on 14.300 MHz was about 15 years ago. Rather than stations standing by & letting "Net Control" (who had good copy on the boat) take care of the situation, ten different guys started chiming in saying, "tell him to repeat his position again" & "Net Control, are you copying all of this"? They all came out of the woodwork thinking they were doing a VERY useful service, but all they did was clog up the situation & make matters ten times worse............They all sounded like a bunch of old Washer Women.
Tom KC0W
So then I'm to understand from the majority of replies here that during contests and field day long standing courtesies and etiquette are off the table......???
When you have a declared emergency, you'll have all the courtesy and etiquette you can stand. Until then, you have no "default" or "exclusive" right to ANY frequency, including 14.300.
No one here is claiming ownership to any one frequency, ....
Oh, like hell you're not. I was born, but it wasn't yesterday. :rolleyes:
Here's some of the commentary from 14300.net. I'll you all decide:
So, what does this mean? It means that the GCOA frequencies should be protected from normal amateur use, contesting, digital modes and other transmissions.
Currently, 14,300 KHz is used by three recognized and well respected nets that have a long established track record of handling emergency traffic from maritime mobile stations, deployed missionaries and any one else that needs assistance. Over the years the nets have documented hundreds of incidents where emergency, medical, search & rescue and other types of life and death traffic has been passed. This frequency, even before the IARU recognition, had become the de facto emergency frequency on 20 meters, thanks to the hard work of the nets involved.
The MMSN, in particular, has been formally recognized for it's work with emergency traffic by the Dept. of Homeland Security, the United States Coast Guard and the National Weather Service, to mention a few.
But nobody owns a frequency! Quite correct. Nobody can lay claim to any frequency in any of the amateur bands. However, the nets operating on 14,300 KHz are not involved in casual conversation. They are, in effect, guarding the frequency and monitoring it for any station that needs assistance. Stations checking into the nets help to keep the frequency occupied and act as relay stations for the net controller who may not otherwise hear a station in distress due to propagation conditions.
What About The Contesters? Efforts are underway with the major contest sponsors, namely the ARRL, CQ magazine and the IARU, to prohibit contesting on or near the GCOA frequencies. Some suggestions have been put forward and continued lobbying is progressing favourably. We have always said that although contesting can be scheduled, emergencies cannot.
At the August 2007 Global Amateur Radio Emergency Communications (GAREC) convention in Hunstville, AL, David Sumner K1ZZ - CEO of the ARRL, undertook to meet with the ARRL contest committees and revamp the contest rules to protect the COA frequencies.
Here is a quote from the ARRL web page and the URL for the complete text.
GAREC also asked Amateur Radio contest organizers to include a provision in their rules that contest participants avoid frequencies in the immediate vicinity of the Center of Activity frequencies (as proposed at GAREC-05); these frequencies are 14.300, 18.160 and 21.360 MHz. According to Pitts (ARRL spokes person), "This would minimize interference to weak or distant stations which may be passing emergency traffic, but not heard in the contest din." (http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2007/08/24/102/?nc=1)
Although the MMSN is by no means opposed to contesting, we ask that stations participating in a contest remember the GCOA frequencies and give them at least a 5 KHz berth. This will ensure that any weak station in distress can be heard by someone. As it is right now (Oct 2007), a ship in distress and calling for assistance on 14,300 KHz during a major contest, stands a much greater than normal chance of not being heard due to the contest interference. This can greatly impact on the lives of those people in distress. If you participate in SSB contests, we ask for your understanding and assistance in keeping the GCOA frequencies clear.
KD7MSC
06-29-2009, 01:27 AM
If a ship or anyone is in distress and needed assistance via Ham radio during a contest all they need to do is call "CQ CONTEST DE P5AR QRZed" and everyone and their brother will be there to help them out.
Here's some of the commentary from 14300.net. I'll you all decide:
One merely need look at Hollingsworth's statement to W1WCR et al regarding the "Liberty Net" in order to get clarification of the FCC's view on 'frequency ownership'.
That is, first come, first served.
Any League official voting in favor of such "spectrum protection" for nets (MMSN or otherwise) needs to step down from his or her position immediately, because at that point you do not represent the amateur community as a whole.
One hopes the various FCC counsel (including Ms. Smith) are intelligent enough to see through this smokescreen.
ETA:
As it is right now (Oct 2007), a ship in distress and calling for assistance on 14,300 KHz during a major contest, stands a much greater than normal chance of not being heard due to the contest interference. This can greatly impact on the lives of those people in distress. If you participate in SSB contests, we ask for your understanding and assistance in keeping the GCOA frequencies clear.
Might I suggest the following? So cheap, even a cavemen can do it (legal to use on the HF maritime frequencies, too!):
http://images.cwrelectronics.com/product/images/10047.gif
N9DSJ
06-29-2009, 02:12 AM
So then I'm to understand from the majority of replies here that during contests and field day long standing courtesies and etiquette are off the table......???
No one here is claiming ownership to any one frequency,
(snipped}
From their own web page, "Under no circumstance should the Net be moved to another frequency."
73,
Bill N9DSJ
From their own web page, "Under no circumstance should the Net be moved to another frequency."
They (the NCS for two of those nets) said the same thing about 14.313 years ago.
Then along came K4MME...W1GM...'FZ, Big Al and a few others...yep...
N9DSJ
06-29-2009, 02:27 AM
They (the NCS for two of those nets) said the same thing about 14.313 years ago.
Then along came K4MME...W1GM...'FZ, Big Al and a few others...yep...
How did that work out? :)
W0NHH
06-29-2009, 02:43 AM
Speaking as one who has been to sea, I believe anyone who does so with a ham radio instead of proper marine radio equipment deserves to be culled. Darwin got it right.
I find it hard to believe that the only help for a vessel in distress is on 14.300. I would venture to say that regardless of frequency, if a distress call was given, 100 whackers and leo's would be very quick to respond. Since emergency traffic has priority on any frequency, I don't think there would be any problems getting help.
On the other hand, I think that the MMSN provides a great service, but hope they have a back-up plan in place in case one couldn't get thru on 14.300 for any reason.
Personally, if I were on a vessel with only a ham radio to get emergency help, I would have to wonder why the marine service radio equipment was not sufficient. Out of respect for the MMSN I avoided 14.300, but don't have a problem with those that chose to use it. They have as much right to that frequency as MMSN.
If we make special provisions for them, then what would be the next net and the one after that and the one after that...ect.ect.
Ok, I'm done mumbling and rambling now. Hope everyone had as much fun with Field day as I did.
N9DSJ
06-29-2009, 02:45 AM
Here's some of the commentary from 14300.net. I'll you all decide: However, the nets operating on 14,300 KHz are not involved in casual conversation. (snipped)
Obviously whomever wrote this never listened there....I made a point of listening there today (odd for me as I never operate above 14.100)... seemed like it was all casual conversation; talking about amps and antennas and such. No harm in that but certainly seemed "casual". Mostly it was whining about FD traffic too close to the net and how they needed to go to bigger amps to counter that. Not sure how that made them more able to hear emergency traffic, but opinions vary.
73.
Bill N9DSJ
K0RGR
06-29-2009, 03:06 AM
I don't agree with many of these positions.
It's true that nobody owns a frequency, but anybody contesting near or above 14.300 is just being a lid - that's always been net territory, and rules or no rules, it's just common courtesy to stay away from nets. There's no good reason whatsoever for people to be up that high in the band. The MMSM is often fun to listen to, along with some of the other nets up there.
Frankly, though, if the OP only had to chase 6 people away, I'd say it was a pretty clean contest.
N9DSJ
06-29-2009, 03:24 AM
I don't agree with many of these positions.
It's true that nobody owns a frequency, but anybody contesting near or above 14.300 is just being a lid - that's always been net territory, and rules or no rules, it's just common courtesy to stay away from nets. There's no good reason whatsoever for people to be up that high in the band. The MMSM is often fun to listen to, along with some of the other nets up there.
Frankly, though, if the OP only had to chase 6 people away, I'd say it was a pretty clean contest.
Sorry, I am obviously confused. I do not operate above 14.100 or so on 20 meters so I might well be missing something. Are you saying no one should operate above 14.300 unless it is net related and if they operate there not in a net context they are a "lid" ?
I have no dog in this hunt but am curious...
73,
Bill N9DSJ
WN9HJW
06-29-2009, 03:39 AM
I made a point of listening there today ... seemed like it was all casual conversation; talking about amps and antennas and such. No harm in that but certainly seemed "casual".
I monitored for awhile on and off today between other chores today too. Heard much the same most of the time. Casual conversation and lots of pointless checking-in . Clearly just a social net, not a "service" net.
Also while one particular net control was in charge - long stretches of silence. Obviously the frequency was not being used for even casual conversation. But whenever someone would come on and ask is the frequency in use, someone would chime in and say that the frequency was occupied by the net. Interesting, though, that this frequency cop never identified.
On the other hand, there was a period when an obviously strong and well organized net control was in charge, who had one or two designated relay stations on the frequency. During that period, the net was active and well run, and stuck to net business instead of endless checking in and social chatting - and interesting that during that period of time, no FD stations tried to use the frequency or even anywhere near it.
Run a well organized and active net, and people do stay away from it.
Run a disorganized net with nothing going on for long stretches, then of course the unused frequency is fair game.
VE7DCW
06-29-2009, 05:19 AM
They (the NCS for two of those nets) said the same thing about 14.313 years ago.
Then along came K4MME...W1GM...'FZ, Big Al and a few others...yep...
:D ...... It was Amateur Radio history in the making.... the quality went in before the names rolled on.....
73
God how could I forget. 24/7 regardless of if its occupied.
Im listening to their tripe right now - "14.300 has been designated by the IARU as a emergency center of activity". What a load.
Too bad the IARU has no regulatory authority over the USA or most any country.
The IARU can't regulate or designate diddly squat.
THEY HAVE NO REGULATORY POWER IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO DESIGNATE ANYTHING CONCERNING HOW OR WHY SPECTRUM IN ANY COUNTRY IS USED.
They are nothing more than the international version of the Ham Radio club from Newington (ARRL).
...but anybody contesting near or above 14.300 is just being a lid - that's always been net territory, and rules or no rules, it's just common courtesy to stay away from nets.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that once you set aside a "reserved" frequency for one net, you have to do so for all nets. Limiting the availability of a given frequency (or frequencies) favors the minority instead of the majority and thereby goes against good amateur practice.
Im listening to their tripe right now - "14.300 has been designated by the IARU as a emergency center of activity". What a load.
Too bad the IARU has no regulatory authority over the USA or most any country.
Kinda like the 'IARN' once tried to "designate" a frequency about 25KHz lower than the one in question, eh?
I haven't read all of the posts, so maybe someone has already made this point.
But if I were in a ship that was sinking and needed to call for help using amateur radio, then it seems to me that Field Day would be a pretty good time for this to happen.
I would just tune around for the strongest "CQ Field Day" that I could hear, and then call that station to report my emergency.
I was operating QRP this weekend, and generally, CW is much more effective for QRP. But on Field Day, I do always go through the phone bands, and work the big signals, most of whom get me on the first call. Usually, QRP phone is an exercise in frustration, but I have found that during major phone contests, it's usually quite easy to make a couple dozen contacts.
So if the boat is sinking and the antenna is halfway under water, then I would look for a contester to call the Coast Guard for me. And, of course, on Field Day, they would get the bonus points for handling traffic, so it's a win-win situation.
KI4CLM
06-29-2009, 04:34 PM
So then I'm to understand from the majority of replies here that during contests and field day long standing courtesies and etiquette are off the table......???
No one here is claiming ownership to any one frequency, but what makes field day any more important in purpose then the nets held on 14.300. Just because they serve no purpose to any one individual here does not make then any less important to those the nets do serve.
Just a couple weeks back a 42 foot sailing vessel broke the coupling on it's auxiliary propeller shaft, the shaft slid back and jammed the rudder leaving this vessel dead in the water with no steerage. The vessel was located over Diamond Shoals off the Cape Hatteras coast, not a good place to loose power or streerage. They were out of VHF range and could not contact the Coast Guard for help. They did have amateur radio equipment onboard, made contact with the Maritime Mobile Service Net, and the net provided assistance, got in contact with the USCG, relaid the vessel's position, and got them help, and maintained contact with the vessel until it was safely in harbor.
Now how would any of you like to be in that guys position on field day, and not be able to make contact with the MMSN because field day is so much more important than life at sea.......
Just a little common courtesy people, that's all anyone here is asking.....
Nets != Emergency Traffic
Regardless of what's going on though, I guaran-damn-tee you that if a station came on 14.300 in the middle of field day calling mayday, the freq would be theirs.
Diamond Shoals is 15nm off Cape Hatteras. How could they not have VHF coverage? Open water with radio installations located on Cape Hatteras (including a USCG sector office on the Cape), I'm not understanding how they could not contact the USCG.
More than likely didn't have the proper marine VHF radio installed.
Is it legal for a boat capable of "blue water" sailing to leave port without a marine VHF or HF certified rig?
I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
A lot of the posters have made the same points. It is field day, what better time to have an actual emergency, with thousands of stations listening all over the bands.
I know there is a net on 14.300, but I don't know what times, but if I were running the frequency and a net came up, I'd yield, to any net. Just because I'll QSY doesn't mean I acknowledge that you own the frequency or anything like that, I'm just being courteous.
Not everyone is courteous, they can be jerks if they want. Some will say they don't hear, but I think that is probably BS, especially when they are being informed from several locations that can hear them.
So, what do you do about it. Write down the call signs, record the QSOs, and share their behavior with the world. Mostly club calls on the air. Find their information, write to the club officers and trustee. Post their calls names on QRZ.
I've come up with a theory, sure, the operators themselves don't really care about their behavior, but they do it more because they think nobody else cares either. Let them know that we do.
Don't forget, there is nothing special about 14.300, nobody owns it.
Also, on Field Day, there are no more bonus points for SSTV :( so things will get worse on 14.230.
73 de Joseph Durnal NE3R
K7GFH
06-29-2009, 10:00 PM
Here is an idea. If the MMSN is so important to help protect lives, which I am not saying it is not, then why not petition the FCC to establish a frequency either above or below 20 meters, outside of the amateur band for the MMSN? Make the MMSN a certified or mandated or knighted / official public safety organization with members. I believe most all amateur radio equipment is capable of operating either a little above or below 20 meters. I could be way off on this, it would not be the first time nor the last!
73
JR
Here is an idea. If the MMSN is so important to help protect lives, which I am not saying it is not, then why not petition the FCC to establish a frequency either above or below 20 meters, outside of the amateur band for the MMSN?
There's already such a frequency:
2182.
Gotta have the correct radio and license to use it, though.
IMHO: Anyone who places the safety and well-being of themselves and/or others (especially others) in just one piece of radio gear - and a "ham" rig at that - while on the high seas is an Nth-ordered fool.
An extra few thou spent on an HF marine rig, VHF marine rig and supporting antennas is a small price to pay for peace of mind and communications redundancy. If that pittance is a "make or break" expense for someone as far as being on the ocean goes, perhaps they should re-think the idea.
K0WVM
06-30-2009, 08:12 AM
Not this stuff again...
I feel like I am in the movie Ground Hog Day with all the same old complaints right after Field Day year after year.
Not this stuff again...
I feel like I am in the movie Ground Hog Day with all the same old complaints right after Field Day year after year.
Yep....'tis the show that never ends.
Not this stuff again...
I feel like I am in the movie Ground Hog Day with all the same old complaints right after Field Day year after year.
Except that this particular "bellyache" repeats itself every contest weekend, instead of just every year. You'd think they'd get the hint by now that it's not going to change. :rolleyes:
You'd think they'd get the hint by now that it's not going to change. :rolleyes:
But instead, 'they' want their own private little freekency, complete with guard bands either side ...
I think I would prefer a sattelite phone were I to be sailing off into the great unknown.. Oh well..
I think I would prefer a sattelite phone were I to be sailing off into the great unknown.. Oh well..
Bingo - the operator "gets it".
KI4ODO
06-30-2009, 02:28 PM
I don't usually operate anywhere near that frequency, but the argument of weather anyone is claiming "ownership" of a frequency. Hmm, lets see.
" We are going to have some sort of net here 24/7 all year long, and you can't operate here while a net is going on"
Pretty well seems like claimed ownership to me.
Doesn't really affect my operating any, but they do (from what I gather) pretty much squat there all the time.
