View Full Version : battling the baddies on 10M
Many of us hear (and have heard) the truckers, 'south of the border types' and other illegal operators on 10M.
For some time now, we have also seen an ABSOLUTE dearth fo any action, or interest, by ARRL, FCC, or 10-10 to deal with this ongoing and increasingly large amount of invasion of 10M.
(now before ARRL types or 10-10 types contradict me, let me say that I have correspondence from 10-10 leadership saying that they HAVE been working with FCC/ARRL, there has been enforcement, and that theydo care. However, when I ASKED for proof... I received NADA in return. The ARRL is aware of the problem but has failed to express any interest in the information we have gathered to help the Amateur Auxiliary id the baddies. So Ihave solid foundation upon which to make those statements I made. IF you are a 10-10/ARRL official and can refute with evidence what I say.. I will GLADY apoligize here and eat my fair share of crow)
NOw.. HOW DO WE BATTLE THE BADDDIES??
Several of us, when we hear illegals on 10M, like to send Code Practice and Bulletins using CW, RTTY, and PSK31. We ID properly, we send information of interest to Radio Amateurs, and we are legal.
You know what? It works! The baddies change frequency OR they QRT, rather quickly. If they QSY into another 10M freqency, we follow them and repeat theprocess.
NOw.. for those who will accuse us of 'intetional QRM', let me disabuse you of that notion right now. IT IS NOT QRM - intentional or otherwise.
First, understand YOU are the legal operator. Therefore, when you transmit on the frequencies THEY are on, YOU ARE NOT repeat ARE NOT interfering with them. As long as you ID properly, use the authorized mode/emissions and are licensed for that band, YOU are 100 percent legal.
You are authorized to send bulletins of interest to the Amateur Community by any legal mode/emission. You can send CP if you want. As long as you ID properly, are licensed, operate under therules for power, mode/emission. you are 1000 percent legal.
Is this the BEST way to fight them? NOPE!
BUT IT IS EFFECITVE! IT works,and until andif the official powers that be take it upon themselves to do what needs to be done, we must take the battle to te baddies ourselves.
If you want more info, contact me. If you want to do some yourself.. just remember.. if THEY runAM, you will need to offset your CW signal about 800 Hertz. Trust me.. it works..
73
CHuck K3FT
Very good, Chuck.
You know, I hear the illegals daily and am now getting back into CW after 23 years of being laid-off.
Sending speed is no difficulty at all, regaining the receive speed is abit hard, however, with more receiving daily I'll be up there again, just a matter of time spent wisely.
G, I heard some Spanish speaking station in the lower portion of 10 meters the other day, a male & female changing frequencies at least 1/2 a dozen times, also heard CW on them, guess they tried to evade the CW? I think so. Good for the CW operator, keep up the good work CW operator.
For those that know CW, get on 10 meters, find the illegals and send some CW, make them shut-up or move, find them again and send more CW. By the way, the illegals do switch modes, i.e. AM to USB or LSB, make the necessary offset adjustment for CW and let it fly.
Remember folks, it is legal.
n3mvf
02-23-2003, 02:03 PM
W/out disputing or agreeing with the above method used, I do believe that there are pecking orders as to primary allocation, secondary allocation and NO allocation. Have to go with the primary allocation to amateurs on this one. As far as an SOS, a amateur is suppose to listen first before transmitting. I'm betting that if that was done in this case, your not hearing an SOS but casual illegal chatter.
73
Greg
W1NCH
02-23-2003, 03:50 PM
Good idea.
It comes with the usual caveat that we should listen first to make sure we are not transmitting on top of a legal QSO, but otherwise, excellent.
After all, who are they going to complain to? :-)
K8EEI
02-23-2003, 04:54 PM
Instead of sending bulletins , why not send a long winded CQ on CW . #I've done it several times on 10 meters and I have gotten many responses .
Keep up the good work . #Too many complainers and not enough doers .
Use it or lose it , boys .
73 de Tony K8EEI
That's right fellas, we got more complainers and no doers.
Listening FIRST is the key word.
Spanish speaking and American foul-mouth trucker's aren't using CW, SOS or Callsigns, "they just use their radio illegally."
Again this morning at 1743Z, 28045 AM, 2 females Spanish speaking, THEN they moved to 28035 AM, well, I used just a short amount of letters and numbers, what are your callsigns pse de k7pig k. I'll be darn no callsigns and they move, how rude.
CW and RTTY will get their attention, it ceases their illegal operation.
kf4lne
02-23-2003, 09:24 PM
My personal favorite solution for dealing with unauthorized operators...
http://www.linux-junkies.org/pix/kit.jpg
Why not do the obvious...... petition the ARRL to lobby for the opening of 28.000 to 28.300 for voice mode use. Often there is much less activity below 28.300 than there is above it and as such, sounds like unused wasteland to others who might want to illegally use it. The illegals usually do not come up into the 10 meter phone segment. They may stay off the lower portion if it were opened up. Better yet, lets petition for the spectrum now used by the #so called ferrbanders from the top of the authorized CB spectrum at CB channel 40 to 28.000 to be added to amateur allocations. It might get a bit testy for a while when hams start to run off the illegals, with the help of the FCC of course http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
73
George
K3UD
K3UD.. Howdy!
Ray,K7PIG has a GREAT list of frequencies that the lillegals like to operate upon.
Ray, how about posting your list and details here and on the posting for Q&A where I put the same message. It will help others know where to look and helps such as offset and your successess!
These illegals have gone up to 28.5 MHz and higher. so they are up there.
Recruit other people to help in our battle for maintaining the 10M band for Amateurs.
BTW.. the comment about the primary/secondary allocatoins is a good one. Suggest check the ITU website for Region 1/2/3 HF allocation list.
BTW.. those of us involved in the 'TAKE BACK 10 METERS!' program ALWAYS listen for ID's, callsigns, emergency calls, etc. The ones we are after are the OBVIOUSLY illegall types.
A GOOD NAME FOR THE PROGRAM!
TAKE BACK 10 METERS!!!!
Spread the word. Talk to K7PIG for frequencies, Ideas, etc. Ray has been burning up his wrist iwth his J37 giving the BADDIES FITS!!!!!
GO GET 'EM RAY!
Glad to furnish the frequencies, it's rather long, however, the more amateurs that know the better.
First my webpage has a list of frequencies, all of them and probably the fish that got away.
http//:www.angelfire.com/empire/radio/radio.htm
k7pig@yahoo.com
28000, 28005, 28015, 28025, 28035, 28045, 28055, 28065, 28075, 28085, 28095, 28105, 28125, 28135, 28165, 28175, 28195, 28205, 28235, 28245, 28295, 28305, 28335, 28345, 28365, 28445, 28475, 28505, 28535, 28595, 28605, 28635, 28725, 28775, 28885, 28975, 29010, 29100, 29105, 29200, 29205, 29375, 29475. So far, many got away I know that.
Most illegal transmissions are AM Mode, however, the illegals WILL SWITCH MODES to: LSB/USB and FM.
The Spanish speaking illegals DO SWITCH MODES and DO SWITCH TO DIFFERENT FREQUENCIES if they encounter CW.
USA Trucker's are everywhere on 10 meters with the foulest language known in English.
Spanish speaking switch modes and frequencies and when they get really upset, they play all sorts of noises from their lips into ECHO and Reverberation plus, they will play music and Computer generated noises.
One Spanish speaking female will SCREAM into her microphone, my J-37 finds her and further upsets her.
For AM, I'll do one of 3 things; zero-beat or offset 700 cycles to 1Kc for CW, whichever one works. USB and LSB, you should know that offset for CW?
Most Spanish speaking stay below 28300, trucker's as I mentioned above use the entire 10 meter amateur band.
Spanish speaking, the loudest signals are azimuthed 120 to 150 degrees radio bearing. Trucker's are azimuthed from 45 to 90 degrees radio bearing from this location.
If your located on the East Coast you most likely will not here the trucker's I hear, which are located East of the Mississippi River. You'll hear the trucker's out here in the Southwest, West and Northwest.
On phone, AM or SSB, if your encounter them, talk at them, not to them. Be prepared to be cussed out severly and maybe your life threatened, I am serious.
Questions, hope I can answer them. Been doing this monitoring for a few 24 hours.
Listen first, identify, then let the CW, RTTY fire away.
N7CPC
02-24-2003, 07:32 PM
Sorry, try as I may, I still ain't hearing them. Went to a friend's house and used his rig and tri-bander......nothing.
Heard one one sided QSO. That is to say I could hear only one of the stations involved. The one I heard was leagle.
But then again, even 11m seems dead right now.
I'll keep listening.....
W1NCH
02-24-2003, 09:14 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> talk at them, not to them [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Could you clarify this? If there is two of us, does that mean to acknowledge their presence but otherwise ignore them?
What if there is just one of us? Do we just call CQ?
An example of what I do in talking at them.
I don't care if I hear 1, 2 or 3 illegals. I listen, identify on frequencies that are for voice.
Why I detect illegals, Trucker's or Spanish speaking using this frequency illegally, I'll be darn. THEN I shall or will use AM, SSB or FM (Above 29Mcs) or CW over their illegal transmissions.
Most of the time they leave or I get cussed out severly.
Do you have a problem with this scenario? I'm legal in transmitting they are not.
W1RFI
02-24-2003, 10:42 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k7pig @ Feb. 23 2003,16:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why I detect illegals, Trucker's or Spanish speaking using this frequency illegally, I'll be darn. THEN I shall or will use AM, SSB or FM (Above 29Mcs) or CW over their illegal transmissions.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The truckers are generally easy to identify, but unless onespeaks Spanish, it is not easy to tell Spanish-speaking amateurs from fishermen. In many countries, hams are not limited by mode the way we are in the US, so some of those Spanish speaking signals could be from licensed amateurs. If they identify in phonetics, it may be possible to figure out that they are hams, but a quick ID in Spanish letters could be missed. The 10-minute ID rule is also a US requirement, and other nations may permit a longer time period between station identifications.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
W1NCH
02-24-2003, 10:51 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you have a problem with this scenario? I'm legal in transmitting they are not.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nope. I agree with your idea in principle and practice. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about it. More questions, if you don't mind:
1) It seems to me that our ability to operate in different modes is a serious advantage. I've heard SSB transmissions on an AM receiver, and it really sounds God-awful, so that would be my first choice for dealing with CB'ers. But if they use SSB, what then? Is CW or AM the better option? If they are above 29Mhz, does FM do a better job of QRMing their communications?
2) If you're using CW, sending code practice or a CQ is obvious. But what if you are using a voice mode? Do you send a bulletin or call CQ? Do you switch from voice to CW after identifying yourself?
Keep up the battle...I'll be joining you as soon as I get my General!
ka8jhm
02-25-2003, 04:03 AM
I have been bothered by these illegal truckers for over five years now, seven days a week, fifty two weeks a year on ten meters. Sending proof of these illegal activities to the FCC has proven a waste of time.
When I hear these truckers I usually get on the same frequency, AM mode and politely inform them that they are in a FCC restricted area of the band, and ask them very politely to go back to the 27 mhz band. Usually this is another waste of time, but at least I try to be very polite.
When this doesn't work and I get cussed out, ( these neanderthol drivers can't put together a five word sentence without four letter words), I fire up the power and send code on the same mode, that is AM and try to interfer with their conversation. More often than not this doesn't work either. Sometimes I just key down and let the radio scream, another waste of time. These people have just decided that due to the years of operating on these frequencies without any input from the " radio police" as they call the FCC, they are good to go.
In my opinion there are just not enough hams that really care about protecting the ten meter band, after all, they have other bands to work and don't worry about the loss of one band. Today ten and twelve meters tomorrow http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?
73s Bob KA8JHM
KD7KOY
02-25-2003, 05:10 AM
Why not have some guys on the CW freqs where most of this occurs and do some regular CW.
They are probably going to sections where there is little traffic.
Be a good reason for "slow cw" practice for new people.
Maybe put the word out and see if anyone would be interested. You can strap that whole section of the band with CW ops. I need to increase my speed anyway..hehe
WA2ZDY
02-25-2003, 09:59 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7KOY @ Feb. 24 2003,22:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why not have some guys on the CW freqs where most of this occurs and do some regular CW.
They are probably going to sections where there is little traffic.
Be a good reason for "slow cw" practice for new people.
Maybe put the word out and see if anyone would be interested. You can strap that whole section of the band with CW ops. I need to increase my speed anyway..hehe[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
THIS is an excellent idea. Not that the others aren't, but this is productive in more ways than one.
The caution from Ed RFI is very valid. I've had that thought as I've read this thread over the past few days. Do be careful and keep in mind, the US is one of very few, if there are even any others, countries that have mode restricted subbands. Most places allow all modes on all ham frequencies. This is why Canadians (among others, but to use a close neighbour for example) are talking in the CW band on 40. That has a lot to do with why the 80m Novice band was moved down 25 KHz too.
Just be careful and have at it!
(By the way, another word of caution about threats. Some of you folks may want to keep in mind that if you're operating legally, thus identifying, you ARE telling these bozos where you live. I have a PO Box in the callbook, do you?)
Good luck and 73,
W1RFI.Hi ED.
Wonder if the ARRL and the OO/Amateur Auxilary are going to goafter these guys? have been hearing, through the grapevine, that they are.. but haven't seen much over the past year or so? Any solid and worthwhile information? YEs,I have communicated with Haynie and other ARRL types about it as have many others on our "TAKE BACK 10 METERS" group but the responses have been 'thanks! We appreciate the info and want to know more!' but the resulting actions have been (shall we say) undetectable by us? I have had 10-10 leadershp tell me FCC/ARRL HAS taken action on the 10M infractions, but when I politely ASK for proof or documentation ofthe PUBLIC RECORD of enforcement results I get the same resounding crash of silence in the receiver.
Hint to those using CW/AM/SSB... Try offsetting your transmit frequency a bit. Sometimes you have to VARY the transmit frequency to hit a point where it bugs 'em, or a heterodyne becomes objectionable.
of course.. propagation, distance between the offenders, and their tolerance for your signal being there all factor. They may also be trying the 'if we ignore them and act like they aren't there, they'll get bored/tired/frustrated and go away' trick too. So..continue!
Patience is.. tenacity works!
NEVER GIVE UP!
73
Chuck K3FT
And yes. for those who might think it..I HAVE written,called,and communicated with FCC and ARRL numerous times and YES I'm an ARRL member AND also worked FOR FCC in enforcement, so I'm aware of that world too.
Most won't care.. but there are always a couple who want to know what one has done or the bona fides of the person making the statemetn. This is just a preemptive note.
Get that General Ticket, Brent. Glad to hear your interested in this endeavor.
Using CW or RTTY over SSB or AM makes their illegal transmissions difficult, meaning they hear this noise or interference they don't want to hear. They want a "Clear Channel Noise Free."
Listening again is the most important issue here, you must identify if it is: Friend or FOE.
No ID, Southern and or Texan accent, "4", "10-4", SH_T, F-CK, F-CK YOU, etc., are known give aways to hams, at least it should be. Voice singing by trucker's with no voice training at all (Horrible).
Spanish speaking playing noises, using ECHO, Reverberation, Roger Beeps, computer generated noises, females Spanish speaking "SCREAMING" into their #microphones, Spanish speaking kids playing music. Theme music from the motion #picture, The GOOD, the BAD and the UGLY played almost daily.
Individuals operating AM over Beacon Stations, another known give away, "ILLEGALS." I haven't heard any hams in the past 4 years of documenting this activity operate voice over Beacons.
Trucker's here in the USA are my concern, Spanish are also, however, the Spanish problem is a Diplomatic Issue. My logs to the FCC have gotten a zero about the unlawful trucker's. Wow, the Spanish speaking reported to them, why I'd have to be elected and carry a big cannon, rather tow a M-110 SP Howitzer.
Trucker's want everything for nothing, screw me, screw you and screw the FCC.
If you listen long enough, again, a few 24 hours for me, you'll in fact know who is friend or foe.
CW Practice Nets sound very welcomed to me.
Remember the offset, are you hearing illegals on AM or SSB, then make the proper offset. The Spanish speaking WILL CHANGE FREQUENCIES if they hear CW or RTTY, follow them and do it again. Its a pain but they will eventually cease transmitting, may take an hour or more, keep following them. They get upset because they want a "Clear Channel Illegally." Terrible illegals want, earn it or you will be overtaken by legal amateurs so licensed to do so.
O, Brent I don't know if CW will interfer with FM. I say that for I haven't heard CW over an FM Station. I don't think it will bother FM, again I'm not sure. I will check on that. Anyone know the answer?
Last, almost forget this issue, remember this; the illegals will return after the frequency is clear of CW and RTTY, bet your booties on it, they will return AND Trucker's don't care they talk right thru it most of the time. Listen to 28085 AM, amateur RTTY and they talk right thru it.
ai4ep
02-25-2003, 03:24 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif also have to remember that most of these truckers are not more than a couple of miles APART ( if not bumper-to-bumper ), so 1000 or more watts from your location will not do a lot of good, even with beam antennas, etc.... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif kd4amg
When making transmissions over top of the "Good Buddy" interlopers, it will be important to speak in their Native Tongue so that they understand.
If the interlopers are English-speaking, make the following transmission:
Mmmmmmbreak mmmmmbreak... Mmmmbreak broke!Doggone! I'm a gonna key up, I'm a gonna key up, I'm a gonna key up, key up, key up on this channel. Mercy.... Get on outta there, duck plucka. Get on outta there fer sure, ya doggone duck plucka. Mercy! You are SHUT DOWN. You are SHUT DOWN, ya cotton pickin' duck plucka. Ain't a never gonna give you no break. Ain't a never gonna give you no doggone break on this cotton pickin' channel. Mercy.... I'm just a gonna key up, key up, key up on this here channel an' I'm never gonna give you no doggone break. Mercy, ain't NEVER shoulda give him th' radidio in the first place! Doggone snuffskeeter ain't never shoulda give you the radidio in the first place, ya duck plucka. Mercy... SHUT DOWN! You are SHUT DOWN! Ain't never gonna give you no doggone break...
... etc into the night.
If the interloper is Spanish speaking, say the following:
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooola.... oooooooooooooooooola.... Ahhhhhhhlo.... Aaaaahhh ... Aaaaaaaah.... AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHLLLOOOO.... Oooooooooola... AaaaaaaahhhOOOOOOOOla.....
See, you can't just jam 'em. You have to send a message they'll UNDERSTAND.
Out.
I understand, very Elementary, sorta like children 4 to 7 talking to each other in a fight.
ka8jhm
02-27-2003, 03:03 AM
W3SY,
Sounds like you have heard these drivers, but, you should be more realistic in your discriptions of their language. I didn't see any words starting with " mother" and not near enough four letter words to be correct or life like. And without these words they have no idea what you might be talking about.
Or, maybe the drivers you hear are more refined and have a better vocabulary, which I doubt. hi hi....
73s Bob ka8jhm
kf4lne
02-27-2003, 04:13 AM
ts not just teh truckers. There are probably just as many fixed stations as there are mobile operating ilegally in the 10 meter band. SOme of them are probably hams who arent supposed to be there as well.
Actually Bob is correct.
The four letter word group is popular with limited vocabulary individuals in the Trucker's education system.
Other words prior to or after the 4 letter word adds jazz to their meanings.
Example:
Fill the F- - -ing tank up, you must be a stupid Mother F- -KER.
More mobile stations (Trucker's) operate 10m illegally then fixed station. Fixed station majority are of the Spanish illegal types, 120 to 150 degrees Radio Bearing, not in this USA.
I see my article posted in the "Questions and Answers" is very popular: ZERO Comments. Not many hams care about 10 meters. All mouth and no guts to get on CW and use the frequencies they have if licensed to do so.
"Let someone else do the dirty work, not me."
10 x 10 International does that, they won't take there frequency back, they'll let the illegals do their filth.
When 10 meters is just about gone with all the illegals transmitting there, send me a email on how you can help, your reply from me ZERO.
Actually, the sample transmission I posted was for the more educated "good buddies" who made it through third grade.
True, there needs to be a lot more "mother f'er" to sound like the AVERAGE Interloper Dirtbag.
Haw!!!
I couldn't help but laugh at your act like a trucker.
Very true, you are right.
The filth displayed by these non-intellect individuals are the bottom of all humanity and dignity.
A 3 year old has more intelligence.
I don't know at all what will become of 10 meters, it doesn't look good at this point in time.
ARRL is a Zero.
FCC is a Zero.
10 x 10 International is a Zero.
Not necessarily in that order but all 3 are Zero's.
Interesting thought, the ARRL Band Plan, the FCC hasn't a Band Plan, Part 97 hasn't a Band Plan. Perhaps, using RTTY or High Speed Morse out of the ARRL Band Plan will get attention. Wherever I hear unlicensed trucker's and Spanish speaking unlicensed use RTTY. Can't be cited, it's not part of Part 97 or a rule by the FCC.
What do you think?
ka8jhm
02-28-2003, 02:57 AM
w3sy
I guess when you meant the " good buddies that went through the third grade" that kind of left out most truckers. With their display of four letter words and lack of vocabulary I doubt if most of them ever even started the third grade.
Bob ka8jhm
They couln't even meet the requirements for Pre-School prior to Kindergarten, Bob.
Today, Friday should be an interesting day on 10 meters, lots of unlicensed trucker's and Spanish playing noises and music. 1400Z the Spanish will be on 28045 and 28035 AM, I'll hear them, as will the J-37.
A SCREAMING Spanish female changing frequencies and modes, I'll be there on CW.
W1RFI
02-28-2003, 12:51 PM
This one is probably one of the toughest enforcement matters going. In an ideal world, we could ask the FCC to send out the vans and DF all the truckers, but in practice, that isn't going to happen. We are all pleased to see the FCC back in the enforcement business, but they have a lot of services to regulate and if amateur radio became TOO burdensome, I don't think we would like the FCC response.
The overseas abuses on 10 meters may be almost impossible. First, as I pointed out, not all of the Spanish-speaking stations are non-amateur. Most are, though. I talked with Chuck Skolaut, the ARRL staff dude who interfaces with the OOs, and one of his Canadian colleagues is collecting information on this sort of problem, so any reports sent to Chuck will be passed along.
The US trucker problem may actually have a solution. As I recall, several hams have identified the trucking companies involved and written letters. I believe that at least one FCC letter went out. If the CEOs of large trucking companies start getting letters from the Enforcement Bureau of the FCC, they may well decide that the easiest way to make this problem go away is to put an end to 10-meter operation by non-amateurs in their companies.
As in all such things, the place to start is to get the illegal operation on tape, with a few corroborating witnesses to be able to say that they heard what was taped. Chuck told me that if we can get a few tapes that can identify a trucking company, he will look into the best way to handle this, hopefully by getting the case to the FCC for FCC action. Send the tapes and a letter summarizing the case to Chuck at ARRL HQ. It is likely that a LOT of recording may have to happen to catch the company ID, so indicate how many minutes into the tape the relevant part is.
This is a tough one, guys, but getting these things on tape and documented is an important first step. This is a routine part of Chuck's job, so lets give the process a chance to work. Unfortunately, without the tape or a clear indication that a particular company or individual is involved, this is a tough nut to crack. But with the proper documentation, a dent may be possible.
When the weather is a bit better, I may do a bit of field work. I have a mobile field-strength measurement system I designed. It can be programmed to step through the 10-meter band in 5 kHz steps and make a measurement about every 0.1 second. It might be worth parking it at a truck stop somewhere and find out what percentage of trucks are operating on the 10-meter band. I would imagine that most of these would be most active as the truckers were coordinating their rest stops. My guess is that we won't hear more than a few over the course of a day, but it would be worth finding out just how pervasive this problem is.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
wb1fow
03-01-2003, 04:14 PM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Riley Hollingsworth" <RHOLLING@fcc.gov>
To: <lcollier@townisp.com>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 8http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif5 PM
Subject: Re: 10M & CB
You're correct. Unlicensed stations have no rights and do not have to be
recognized. thanks
>>> Lee Collier 02/25/03 08:50AM >>>
Dear Mr. Hollingsworth, there is a debate raging on the QRZ discussions on
interference to illegally operated stations. Some HAMS are saying that if you
call CQ or use a digital mode over an illegal unlicensed station on 10M you
are causing willful interference in violation of FCC regs? Is this correct? I
have read the regs and perhaps I am missing something but it seems to me that
if a licensed station is operating over the top of an unlicensed illegal
station on 10M it is not interference. In fact I would assume that the
unlicensed station is the one causing the interference.
Can you please clear this up for us.
Sincerely,
Lee Collier
WB1FOW
kf4lne
03-01-2003, 04:40 PM
Just as soon as I pass a code test I'm going to crank up on 10 meters and work some PSK or other non-voice mode...
pinguine
03-02-2003, 09:54 AM
See the IARU monitoring system - is implemented by regions. It is up to us to support their action, should be seriously taken into acount. Visit http://www.iaru.org and you will see what I am talking about.
Individual actions are worthless, amateur must come together.
I have to tell you that you are far more lucky there, here in Romania we can hear taxi dispatches from Ukraine and Russia between 28.000 and 28.400 (from up this fq they become bothered by the legal traffic) almost all the time the band is opened. Of course there is no reply from their authorities. What we do? we just go up to max legal power and start calling CQ on their frequencies and having QSO's. Perfectly legal.
Plus I have a EchoLink connection with my HF rig so there is always traffic on the fqs. Just beating with their own weapons.
Greetings! I already repliedto Ed's query about tapes and logs. If he finds that he is seriously serious about I will load him up BIG TIME with logs, tapes, and enough informatoin to convince even the most conservative person that the problem is real, exists, and grows larger.
Riley's response confirms what we've been saying all along. That should quiet anyone who might have a problem and allow YOU ALL to enjoy sending Code Practice, Bulletings, PSK31, RTTY, AM, SSB, CW and making QSO's. Of course.. if you tend to follow around the illegals as K7PIGdoes.. and they vacate 10M for the 'freeband world' then so much the better.
Amateur Radio 'burdensome'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Please.. I understand your thrust of the comment andappreciate that we are supposed to be self-policing BUT WE ARE! It is NOT repeat NOT Amateurs that are the problem. it is INVADERS of the AMATEUR SPECTRUM that are theproblem.
THEY are outside Amateur Radio operators ability to enforce, punish (save the on the air stuff we do) or rectify the situation. THAT is 100000 percent within the Charter of the FCC. The FCC is chartered with regulation and enforcement of the radio spectrum AND handling problems that occur suchas these.
So, the comment about Amateur Radio being 'burdensome' does not fit in this situation.
Mark my words.. IF the ARRL and other groups WITH CLOUT DON'T geton the wagon and start working the issue by being PROACTIVE (and Of, By, and FOR the Radio Amateur) then you are going to find far worse things happening t these invaders.
ONe thing I've learned
DO NOT PISS OFF A TECHNICALLY QUALIFIED PERSON! They will find ways to make the one doing the problems VERY VERY unhappy by making their operatoins MOST difficult. Plus if you get a group of guys/gals who are motivated by principle and willing to what they must to enforce what it rightfully theirs (and other Amateurs too).. WATCHOUT!
our Take Back 10 Meters! Group activity is a pale, pale shadow of what some pissed off technically inclined folks cna do to these illegals. Nice thing is.. the illegals won't know who is doing it cuz it will ALL be by radio.
ECM is a wonderful wonderful thing!
73
Chuck K3FT
W1RFI
03-03-2003, 11:28 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ Mar. 01 2003,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Greetings! I already repliedto Ed's query about tapes and logs. If he finds that he is seriously serious about I will load him up BIG TIME with logs, tapes, and enough informatoin to convince even the most conservative person that the problem is real, exists, and grows larger.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ed was serious about tapes, but don't send them to me; send them to Chuck Skolaut at ARRL HQ.
Although a general archive of the nature of the problem could have uses, do ensure that what is sent contains information that actually can be acted on. In many cases, it will be necessary to record a lot of stuff, and in the middle is the place where the truckers indicate what company they work for, so do indicate that the relevant part of the tape is "N" minutes into the tape, and give a brief transcript of that part in your cover letter. The cover letter should also include dates, times and frequencies. If other hams also heard it, include their names as corroborating witnesses to the alleged intrusion.
Now, if you really want to do the homework and can provide the mailing address for the involved company, so much the better. I chatted with Chuck about this on Friday, and my recommendation to him was that we try to get the FCC to write any necessary letters. I explained the model we use with power-line cases, where we send a draft of the "canned" FCC letter to Riley, with the company names all filled in, in a .doc file formatted for his printer. :-)
I suggest that you not overload the system, but select those cases that are the most likely to set a really good precedent and get them to Chuck. Let me know when you do and I will follow up with him to remind him of what he told me. :-)
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
Personally, I glad to see some responses about this Invasion of 10 meters.
The "PIG" is working on an accessory item to further the great cause of bothering those "ILLEGALS on 10 meters."
A small problem exists and in due time shall be rectified for 100% performance. O, GADZOOKS it will be wonderful.
My data collection is submitted to: Can't say, for I'd have to kill myself." I did take an Oath!
Ed. FB! Please send me an EMAIL with chuck's email address and I'll contact him directlyand get the stuff to him.
As I noted in myEMAIL to you, I know how to accumulate data and organize it into formats that will allow an investigator to quickly sort and extract what they need in order to perform a good, solid, analytical analysis prior to intitiating an enforcement case.
I will also coordinate getting tapes to him as well, once I chat with him and find out HOW hewants them organized, located, labeled andthe rest. Trust me.. the guy with the tapes is CHOMPING at the bit to contribute. He'll go out of his way to provide material in the manner needed and in the format requested.
As soon as I hear from Chuck and make the necessary arrangements, believe me... He'll get what he needs to begin the program.
73
Chuck K3FT
Sea Trials went very well, all signalling flags have been lowered and the Battle Flag raised.
The triumph of victory for 10 meters and the agony of defeat for trucker's and Joe & Maria MEX.
W1RFI
03-05-2003, 10:38 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ Mar. 02 2003,10:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ed. FB! #Please send me an EMAIL with chuck's email address and I'll contact him directlyand get the stuff to him.
As I noted in myEMAIL to you, I know how to accumulate data and organize it into formats that will allow an investigator to quickly sort and extract what they need in order to perform a good, solid, analytical analysis prior to intitiating an enforcement case.
I will also coordinate getting tapes to him as well, once I chat with him and find out HOW hewants them organized, located, labeled andthe rest. Trust me.. the guy with the tapes is CHOMPING at the bit to contribute. He'll go out of his way to provide material in the manner needed and in the format requested.
As soon as I hear from Chuck and make the necessary arrangements, believe me... He'll get what he needs to begin the program.
73
Chuck K3FT[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I figured I would post it here, because others might have the same question about how to contact HQ staff. The addressing conventions are pretty straightforward: use either firstinitallastname@arrl.org or callsign@arrl.org. So Chuck is:
cskolaut@arrl.org
k0bog@arrl.org
Naturally, I am ehare@arrl.org or w1rfi@arrl.org.
Here is a list of all ARRL email addresses:
http://www.arrl.org/email.html
I don't know his direct line number, but if you call 860-594-0200, you can ask for him by name.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
Ed, et al,
Per your suggestion and after getting the EMAIL address, I have sent Chuck and you an EMAIL describing what we have, what we offer, and what we are doing. It offers ARRL the chance to participate and become an active part of the ACTIVE AND ONGOING activities to TAKE BACK 10 METERS.
I pray that Chuck will seek to acquire what we have available AND he can format it in a manner that the ARRL Amatuer Auxiliary and OO program can use to build good, solid, cases for submittal to the FCC.
If others want to participate in our TAKE BACK 10 METERS! program it is simple.
1) USE 10 METERS! use RTTY, SSB, CW, AM, PSK31, etc.
2) If you hear illegals, try running Code practice or BULLETINS atop them. NOTE! Riley has confirmed VIA EMAIL that it is NOT. repeat NOT considered a violation of Part 97 (intentional interference) for a licensed Amateur, operating in accordance with the terms of their license, using modes/emissioin within authorized band segments in 10M if authorized and legal transmissions are sent atop transmissions made by ILLEGAL stations.
So.. as long as you check to see that no legal users or emergency calls are NOTon the frequency.. then you can feel safe and secure in transmitting on any authorized 10M frequency EVEN if illegals happen to be there.
3) If when you operate, they move frequency. FOLLOW THEM! Again.. since they are illegal you are NOT interfering with them.
The illegals KNOW we are there. They make jokes about our 'lack of effectiveness' but they also get angry and upset because their illegal operations are disrupted. PLUS many willQSY in the band OR out of the band.
So.. ignore them! TAKE BACK 10 METERS!
73
Chuck K3FT
Right toe, Chuck.
The station equipment here enjoys using 10 meters (CW, RTTY, Phone) on top of illegal communications.
RTTY transmitted over illegals on 10 meters gets their attention immediately. A wonderful mode of operation.
I'm bowing down to my Power Supply-40Amp, your also wonderful my Power Supply.
RTTY and me will be by the crack of dawn, count on it, 1345Z is Sunrise here in Arizona. RTTY starts at just about 1330Z when I hear 28085 AM.
Joe & Maria MEX got a good earful yesterday, they kept coming back for more and I gave it to them until "THEY" finally shut-up. Kind of like my horse, Marv, 1,000 lbs. running over you into the ground at 35 mph, once is enough. Joe & Maria MEX continually want to get beat up, really stupid on their part.
Just a postscript and to publicly close the loop on the current status..
At the recommendation of W1RFI, I have sent both he and another ARRL guy involved in the OO/AA program all the logs of our groups monitoring of 10M as well as other information aconcnering identification and other data.
Ed has promised me that this informatin is desired and will be looked at with the view towards raising the issue 'above the noise floor' at the ARRL. The goal? To promote action within the FCC to deal with this problem..
Personally, I know it will take time and things don't move at warp speed inside the ARRL. (Would I be right if I said 'IMPULSE SPEED' ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Seriously, Ed volunteered and assisted me in getting someone at ARRL to agree to receive this information and I thank him for it, publicily. I am willing to wait a reasonable period of time and see what is what. (Reasonable means I'm not gonna expect results in a 'flash' but I do expect some kind of response in a reasponable period of time)
Our group, informally known as 'TAKE BACK 10 METERS!' will continue to QSO on 10M, send Code practice and bulletins on the frequencies inhabited by the illegals and follow them around the band to make ti QUITE inhospitable for them to communicate. The goal is to make it so inhosiptable they go back below 28.0 MHz for their communications.
We are having success and the illegals know we are there and they DO notice us, contrary to their protestations and threats.
73
Chuck K3FT
ka8jhm
03-07-2003, 04:23 PM
Right on, the illegals do notice us, and know we are there, then cuss us out and keep right on with their filthy language. When we run them off one frequency and they just move 10 or 20 khz up or down, this is winning?
I still maintain just a few days effort on the part of the FCC would get the message out, and fast.
There is no reason the FCC could not visit a few truck stops and confiscate linear amps, ( possession is illegal) along with 10 meter radios, and if for no other reason on the radios is the Part 95 states they shall not be transmitting more than 5 watts. All of these so-called export radios transmit at least 10-35 watts AM.
Nuff said ! Bob ka8jhm
W1NCH
03-07-2003, 09:35 PM
Picked up an HTX-10 at Radio Shack (they're on sale at the local store for $70). I may not be able to transmit yet, but I can certainly monitor and record...
To the poster who asked 'This is winning?' let me say you answered your question within your post. You noted that they ARE noticing and us and moving and then come back.
It is not a BIG WIN (such as getting them shut down, locked up, and fined) but it is a WIN nonetheless. When we become an irritant to them, interrupt their illegal activites, and force them to move and the resume later, we have won.
When,and IF, the ARRL gets behind this effort (and my jury is out on that as are many others awaiting the results ofour contacts with ARRL through W1RFI) AND the FCC gets on the ball, we'll be able to have BIG WINS.
But until then.. to do nothing is worse that doing something. Doing nothing just lets the cancer grow. Doing nothing says, by benign neglect 'We don't like you here, but we're not gonna do anythingabout it, so just continue!', doing nothing simply says 'YOU WIN! We're powerless and we're just gonna sit back and let you overrun our community.'
Doing something tends to inspire others. Just from the activity of our small TAKE BACK 10 METERS group we have heard others on the air emulating what we do. They have made an impact in their area just as we do in ours.
So we need to continue -with orwithout official help or assistance. To do nothing admits defeat and I've never met an Amateur who wanted to admit defeat when it came to wanting to be active in helping.
We ARE making a difference. The baddies KNOW we are here. They complain about US 'QRM'ing' them (yeah right!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and they attempt to get us to believe that WE aren't bothering them - when we KNOW that we are.
My recommendation.. be active. Get a buddy involved. Contact the ARRL/10-10/FCC/Congress.. yep.. it's work.. it's thankless nad it's a boring exercise in apparent futility.. but at least we are doing something.
Press onward!
Chuck K3FT
Just finished maintenance on the RTTY, put gobs of grease and quarts of oil in the machine, the smell of grease and oil in the morning. Onward to VICTORY.
I have heard a DEFINITE increase in RTTY activity on 10 meters. Especially on top of those illegal Jaw Jackers...
Haw!!
Most likely it's my RTTY, heard others yesterday.
How we doing with the illegals from your end? Are we on them? How about signal strength?
I also change MARK and most of the time it's great.
I only operate RTTY out of the ARRL Band Plan (RTTY) when I detect illegals.
K8UPA
03-10-2003, 09:25 PM
This one is probably one of the toughest enforcement matters going. In an ideal world, we could ask the FCC to send out the vans and DF all the truckers, but in practice, that isn't going to happen.
I agree, but I have a question to pose. I have heard about how the FCC has the capability of "honing" in on a signal with minimal transmittion time. I understand how things get blown out of proportion but from what I have been able to gather it could be a transmission as short as 30 seconds or less. As far as you know Ed is this true?
I'm not at all cutting you off, Louis, but, I just discovered something after being out of RTTY since 1962.
You have an AM signal, in this case 28085 AM, trucker's, unlicensed to transmit there. Sending an RTTY on LSB or USB will only create THUMBS on the AM Received signal.
Testing here at the Bungalow and the Low-Rider T-Bird, radio's in both places, applying only 5 watts to transmit (it's best you do that, many Blue Moons ago I learned). The Receiver is just clobbered with RTTY on AM and both side-bands, SSB is 1/2 of AM.
Joe Cool, that's me, blown out of the saddle. The transceiver in the Low-Rider doesn't have FM to TEST.
O Happy Day truck driver's, your in for the RTTY RIDE, ride on Doctor Wally, ride.
Interesting FCC Bust.
A guy named MALKA was really BUSTED GOOD, $35,000 in fines, plus US Federal Marshals seized all the equipment. WONDERFUL.
Also, the FCC can FINE unlicensed folks up $11,000 per violation. EXCELLENT.
N2NKW
03-15-2003, 03:02 PM
WHere did you read this or get this info from? I read arrl enforcement and stuff but I'm always looking for more sources
thanks and 73
Brian-N2NKW
Brian, in this weeks ARRL "In Brief."
Pirate Busted. Friday.
N2NKW
03-16-2003, 01:20 PM
Thanks Wally, Now how do we get this information to the other illegal ops and let them know the heat is on and its gonna start costing them $$$?
Brian-N2NKW
Well, my idea is that the FCC has that responsibility, they have been tasked by the U.S. Congress to Enforce and perhaps take-out a Nation-Wide Media Ad?
It is not our responsibilty, the U.S. Government has been lax in all Enforcement issues relating to Amateur Radio, in particular, 10 meters.
I'll say this again, what this station hears thru the transceivers speaker is: Trucker's that always have the most obnoxious foul-mouths on this Earth and Spanish speaking with all of their childish noise makers.
Well, off to 10 meters for a filled day of illegals transmitting illegally.
N2NKW
03-16-2003, 01:47 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k7pig @ Mar. 16 2003,08:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll say this again, what this station hears thru the transceivers speaker is: Trucker's that always have the most obnoxious foul-mouths on this Earth and Spanish speaking with all of their childish noise makers.
Well, off to 10 meters for a filled day of illegals transmitting illegally.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I just hope you fully realize that not all truckers are transmitting illegally, so dont steroetype all of us into the same catagory.
Brian-N2NKW
I haven't sterotyped trucker's, I stated what my transceivers speaker hears and I log and record.
I have yet to hear an illegal trucker say kind and normal English without the MF, AH, Stupid MF, F'AH.
Of course I'm not in the HOT SEAT either, they are and I state it the way I document it.
ai4ep
03-17-2003, 05:39 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .....PUT the MICRO PHONE up, keep your HANDS on the steering wheel, and CONCENTRATE on #being a professional driver. IF you aint doing nothing illegal, or your rig is not illegal, or your PAST is clean, you should NOT be interested in where or how many POLICE cars there are out there either. Lots of "drug pushers " have handheld cb radios, (NO OUTSIDE ANTENNA ) in their vehicle, and all they NEED to know is being BROADCAST so they can evade the police, THANKS to "smokey reports"...so #the "smokey reports " are HELPING the DRUG traffic go from town to town to town to town. #That goes for the "terrorist folks" too...wanna help a terrorist, tell ALL where the cops are so they can evade them. You may THINK your signal is ONLY going out to the ONE individual person you are TALKING to, but it aint. Lots of others are hearing it too ....sure your rig may only be "getting out " a mile or two, but that may be 1 half mile too far for some one with "drug pushing or terorist ideas " .. so THINK before you #" rat on a cop ". ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ...kd4amg
WA7KKP
03-18-2003, 07:47 PM
The biggest problem I know of is those so-called "export" CB radios that transmit above and below the CB band as well as 10 meters. These are widely sold at truck stops for inflated prices. Add a not-so-linear on the output and we have a recipe for disaster.
If they buy a radio that transmits out of the CB band they WILL use it. Pounding brass over the top of them works, but is like stopping a fly infestation with one flyswatter.
What needs to be done is to give the FCC the finances to track down and prosecute these guys. Make it legal to confiscate equipment and DO IT regularly, with a lot of media publicity. Maybe the threat of loosing thousands of dollars in gear and fines might put the fear of the Lord back in them. Also make it illegal to sell those export CB radios, or modified ham gear (Yaesu) that is specifically intended for out-of-band useage.
And since some of those freeband frequencies are assigned to the US military, maybe a detachment of Marines suddenly appearing on one's doorstep might give the freebander something to think about. Looking down the business end of an M16 is a very powerful argument.
Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP
Gary, what you have stated is true, I agree. My thoughts are in sync with yours.
The FCC needs MONEY and WARM BODIES. I have volunteered my services several times with a silent reply.
The Government isn't fooling anyone out here in tax-land, they need people to enforce, they know it and we know it.
FCC HIRE some people, hire some hams that have shown an interest in this 10 meter invasion. G-Whiz, pay them for their gasoline and food, don't be so dam cheap. I believe it's a wise decision for the FCC's sake and amateur radio.
If you have a rotatable aerial, turn in into Mexico area there abouts at about 2230Z or 2300Z. The CW area is a cesspool of Spanish speaking illegals. Particularly, 28000 to 28100Mcs.
Some AM RTTY at 500 watts or greater gives almost instant shock. They start screaming into the microphones and start with all of their noises, echo ,etc.
They will shut-up ric-tic, it's wonderful.
ka8jhm
03-21-2003, 08:44 PM
k7pig and group
I don't need money from the goverment to get more active regarding the illegal, garbage mouthed truckers. All really need is the proper authority to find and confiscate these illegal radios and linears. Just a visit to any truck stop and / or lay-over stops and they will get the message in a hurry.
I am retired, have plenty of good transportation and plenty of local help. just need the authority. I'll gladly pay for my own fuel.
I draw the line at going into Mexico, I never lost anything there, so I'm not looking for it. Ray you're closer, you do it.
Bob ka8jhm
I chatted yesterday with a trucker who was loading our test systems for a shipment to a trade show. I asked him if he had a CB radio. He said yes, but that he doesn't use it much - mainly when friends are along who want to use it. He added that it is a good one - a Galaxy 88, and that he can use it "off-band", which is useful when conditions are too congested.
I got the distinct impression that he did not have a clue that it was illegal or that the "off-band" band he was referring to was a ham band. More likely, when he asked around to find out what kind of radio to put in his truck, he was told something like "If you want the best, get a Galaxy 88", so he did.
Maybe we need to be a little more pro-active in informing well-intentioned truckers that they shouldn't buy "off-band" radios, and explain why not. And maybe we should be doing more to put Galaxy (is that the company name?) out of business.
Bob, haven't been into Mexico since 1968. I live 12 direct miles from the U.S. - Mexican Border (too close as a matter of fact) plus there is nothing worthwhile to enter that country for anyway. Hassles at the Border points, no thank you.
If you drive your vehicle into Mexico and then return to the U.S. side, your vehicle just might have planted illegal drugs on it somewhere, you don't that, however, the dogs (sniffers) know - to jail you go. NO THANK YOU.
Although I'm not that familiar with CB Radios, I know of no cb radio that has "off-band" additions. There either 23-channel AM or the 40-channel AM or SSB. 26965 to 27405 that is cb radio, nothing more, nothing less.
I read the ARRL had some big pow-wow on something the FCC is doing, nothing about the illegals on 10 meters, I'll just be darn.
26mso010
03-27-2003, 09:29 AM
I am new to this site and i take it you are all amatures, i would just like to say i am a 11 metre pirate and speek all round the world from my mobile. However i never transmit above 27.991 but i do hear the problem you talk about. I am hoping to take my m3 exam as soon as i find one close to me. good luck with your battle http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
So, your an 11 metre pirate.
Amateur Radio doesn't need folks like you.
A disregard for your Country's laws and you want to be tested for an amateur radio license? Stay where your at and you'll be caught.
W1NCH
03-27-2003, 02:42 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So, your an 11 metre pirate.
Amateur Radio doesn't need folks like you.
A disregard for your Country's laws and you want to be tested for an amateur radio license? Stay where your at and you'll be caught.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm going to disagree with you here. If this person wants to get their license and join us, they are welcome as far as I'm concerned. I would sooner welcome these folks and grow our ranks, than make enemies of them. There is no sense in ostracizing someone who wants to be "legal."
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am new to this site and i take it you are all amatures, i would just like to say i am a 11 metre pirate and speek all round the world from my mobile. However i never transmit above 27.991 but i do hear the problem you talk about. I am hoping to take my m3 exam as soon as i find one close to me. good luck with your battle [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WELCOME! Get your license and you will have more frequencies, more power and more freedom than you now have on 11 meters, and you won't need to worry about the authorities. Regardless of what some people might say, as long as you follow the rules and use common courtesy, you will always be welcome.
Perhaps you can make our battle yours? Do you know of anyone who transmits above 28Mhz? Perhaps you can convince them that getting a license is a better way to go? 11 meters is only a small slice of the radio spectrum, and in the coming years the worldwide communication you all now enjoy will fade away. Come, join us and you'll find a whole new world to explore and a whole group of operators willing to work with you.
w0tdh
03-29-2003, 12:05 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k7pig @ Mar. 27 2003,04:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So, your an 11 metre pirate.
Amateur Radio doesn't need folks like you.
A disregard for your Country's laws and you want to be tested for an amateur radio license? Stay where your at and you'll be caught.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have to agree. Tnx.
W1NCH
03-30-2003, 02:55 AM
I was working on my various antenna projects this afternoon and I decided to monitor a few bands to see what was up. Had my 2m and 70cm HTs tuned to the local repeaters, and I warmed up my Hallicrafters S-38A. There was what sounded like a Spanish speaking preacher on 20 meters--perhaps around 14.200?
I move on to 15m, but that was pretty dead, so I moved it up to 10m to see if there was anything interesting. My Hallicrafters has just a long wire antenna--about 300' long, 5' off the ground in an E-W direction--but it seems to do well getting a signal. The problem is the analog dial which can only give a (very) rough estimate of the frequency--especially on the higher bands.
Anyway, it would've been a good day if I had my General. Or would that be a bad day? In any event, I counted at least half-a-dozen or so individuals that sounded like CBers with a distinctly deep-south drawl. I listened for some time to one guy in particular who seemed to say the same thing over and over again (something about "y'all come back"); I never heard a callsign.
Gotta get a better antenna up for my HTX-10 so I can pinpoint the frequency and get a good recording of these folks for the FCC...
n0xas
03-31-2003, 07:09 PM
Decided to try the antenna and tuner out on 10M the other day. There might be something really weird wrong with my receiver, though. Seems like every time I picked a frequency to use for testing, I was hearing Spanish SSB or even AM transmissions... but I know I was in the CW only portion of the band. Must've been birdies or intermod or something. Just in case I moved up or down a couple hundred Hz. Usually after a few minutes of warming up while getting the antenna tuner calibration points written own, the spurious signals would go away. Naturally I was sure to ID properly with CW at the end of each transmission or series of transmissions. Made a mental note to have a look at that receiver to see what the problem might be.
Called CQ quite a few times too, didn't get any answers.
w0tdh
03-31-2003, 09:02 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0xas @ Mar. 31 2003,12http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Decided to try the antenna and tuner out on 10M the other day. #There might be something really weird wrong with my receiver, though. #Seems like every time I picked a frequency to use for testing, I was hearing Spanish SSB or even AM transmissions... #but I know I was in the CW only portion of the band. #Must've been birdies or intermod or something. #Just in case I moved up or down a couple hundred Hz. #Usually after a few minutes of warming up while getting the antenna tuner calibration points written own, the spurious signals would go away. #Naturally I was sure to ID properly with CW at the end of each transmission or series of transmissions. #Made a mental note to have a look at that receiver to see what the problem might be.
Called CQ quite a few times too, didn't get any answers.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This will get even Ray - K7PIG to smile http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
73,
Tom - K0PJG
Laugh, G, I didn't know it was your radio already broken from hearing Spanish speaking in the CW portion of 10 meters.
It's your radio, Tom. Better look at it real good.
My radio has an identical problem, I hear foul-mouth trucker's, speaking English in the CW part of 10m also, better check my radio too.
I do know one item, RTTY is an attention get'her. Most of the time those speaking in the CW portion of 10 meters SHUT-UP. Although I do hear Spanish speaking types, "SCREAMING into their microphones", perhaps they have audio trouble? I enjoy daily.
CU on 10 meters.
Someone should start an official web page for "Take back 10 meters". We could even have "pirate spots".
I'm off to ten meters for more RTTY testing. Keep it
up guys. Great idea!
Dave, NG5E
Thanks Dave, email on its way to you.
W1NCH
04-03-2003, 11:08 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Someone should start an official web page for "Take back 10 meters". We could even have "pirate spots".[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
After what I've heard, I'll second that.
10 meters is noisey with just afew sporadic signals heard here. The illegals are still there, however, probably heard elsewhere.
RTTY is the number one attention get'her, Supreme.
KC7HDE
04-08-2003, 05:29 PM
RTTY is a whole lot more fun when you get a good long QSO going for a good long time.
Those illegals don't know what, who, or why such a noise would just keep going and going.
I've heard the illegals say that the noise is generated by satellites sending info.
They still use the freqs and they know they are not supposed to be there and maybe interfering with satellite communications.
AMAZING!!!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
They are very educated, those trucker's operating where they know their not suppose to.
I've heard similar words from them: Can you hear me?
What is that? Where is that noise coming from, RTTY in their mines is noise. O, that's the Morse code what in the F- -King name is that SH-T doing here on our channel.
They don't know what it is yet they know what it is, amazing, they are truely smart when it boils down to nothing, they know everything.
All I've heard are Spanish speaking today, many far, few and in between, only 2, so far. Perhaps the band will change for the better later, 1600Z and later.
Afew amateurs care about 10 meters, the majority of amateurs do not want to get involed. They just don't give a dam what happens to 10 meters. It will go away, the hell it will.
Get involved majority or you will no longer have that as an amateur radio band. Flood the FCC with real data on the American Trucker's foul-mouths, unlicensed.
"They are Federal Law Violators, period".
ve3wfs
04-09-2003, 12:13 PM
This is an interesting thread, gentlemen. Lots of fun to read.
I just returned from 3 months in Barbados. The 10m cw band had a lot S.American and Central American pirates.
I didn't hear - from that end, any pirates from N.America.
A Barbadian ham told me that most of the voices I heard were speaking Portuguese and were from Brazil.
I harassed them, one and all with cw. There was only once that I felt it had any impact, and even then there was a lull in conversation for about 15 seconds. Then they just disregarded my cw and talked around me.
Part of the problem is our use of 10m. When the band dies we pack our bags and move up to other bands. When it is empty - it is an invitation for local cb operators, truckers, pirates etc. to take occupancy of the house.
I agree - we must be proactive. We must never surrender.
When I operated on 10m cw in Barbados, I have no memory of hearing any interference on top of these operators.
I don't think anyone here, has mentioned that this issue should reach a national platform eg.ARRL magazine article on counterattacking ,or local Amateur Radio clubs making it a point of discussion.
I spoke to about 20 radio clubs in the past year - and I will make it an item of concern in my presentations.
Counter Attack. Fight Back. Never say die!
The reason they are winning is because we are losing.
The reason we are losing is because we are indifferent.
Good luck.,
Winston Seeney
Belmont Lake,
Ontario.
Good comments, Winston.
The ARRL, 10 x 10 International and FCC are aware of this issue.
10 x 10 International doesn't give a dam about it, there concern is operating NETS. They won't even talk over the illegals, let it ride. I have a name for that 10 x 10, however I'll refrain from using that word or words.
The ARRL and FCC are reviewing the material sent to them by a specific Group of hams listening to 10 meters.
They are aware of, they are aware of, this is all we hear continuosly--NO ACTION TAKEN or minute action.
ai4ep
04-13-2003, 02:58 AM
to k7pig...you appear to be rather knowledgeable about 10 meters...I have 2 questions I can not find a DEFINATE answer about in the arrl repeater directory about 10 meters....1) nationwide ssb calling frequency on 10 meters... 2) nationwide FM simplex calling frequency for 10 meters....thanks in advance...kd4amg
Robert, I do not know of an established National SSB calling frequency, if there is even one or such a frequency.
FM Simplex yes, 29.600 FM.
10 meters is about washed out here, sporadic openings of course. I have found openings in the afternoons, starting at about 2200Z. Spanish speaking illegal start at the above time from; 28085 AM to 28005 AM, azimuth of 140 Radio Bearing. You may not hear the Spanish voice use LSB and you will hear the AM Carriers though. Remember they operate with all freq's ending in 5 AM.
If you have some time to help in this endeavor please let me know and I can and will assist you or anyone else. Its very boring and time consuming.
ai4ep
04-13-2003, 01:04 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif THANK YOU for the info about 29.600 being the FM calling frequency, mebbe some one else will know the ssb calling freq. for 10 meters ( if there IS one )... not much 10 meter activity in northern ALABAMA, there is ( or was ) a fm repeater around Tuscaloosa , I think it was 29.6200 or 29.6400 but have not heard it on Saturday ( yesterday )....but have heard am talk on 28.300 - 28.400 ( may be some of the illegal stuff you are referring to, but it was sporatic and mostly unreadable, but it WAS in ELGLISH ).......... have not heard any of the spanish speaking folks to amount to any thing, a bit of jibber-jabber every now and then but nothing to get excited about...what frequencies do you stay on on 10 meters for contacts ?? ..talk later...kd4amg (keep the code but do NOT ask why )
28.535 USB, 29.010 AM and 29.500 FM simplex.
RTTY anywhere the illegals operate and CW in the CW Portion.
KC7HDE
04-16-2003, 09:47 AM
10m here has been so dead latly that I don't even know if The illegals are on or not any more.
I hope that when the sun spots get better that these 10m and 12m illegals don't get to comfortable with thier illegal activity.
Norm. T.
I don't gamble Norm, however, I'll this time bet.
The illegals are still operating, starting now at 2100Z, azimuth 120 and greater. ALL SPANISH speaking.
All modes except CW RTTY PSK AFSK, so far.
When 10 meters opens again, eat your hat with some salt & pepper, there will be more illegals operating 10 meters.
Few to none foul-mouth trucker's heard here, azimuth 90 to 45 degrees true.
Frequencies to listen to now are from 28305 down to band edge 28000 AM LSB USB, they are there, believe me. Very time consuming and boring, they are there.
Here is a sample frequency list of where they are:
28000. 28005, 28015, 28025, 28035, 28045, 28075, 28085, 28105, 28115, 28135, 28145, 28175 (Beacon Station) and 28305 AM, LSB, USB. Nothing at all above 28305 in 2 months that is heard from this station location.
WA7KKP
04-16-2003, 06:46 PM
What we're fighting is the genie let out of the 11 meter bottle. First it was Yaesu transceivers with the snipped yellow wire, and now it is the flood of "Export CB" radios sold at truck stops.
We as hams usually buy our gear at amateur radio oriented stores, not truck stops. Here it is like buying drugs from a drugstore with prescription in hand versus buying them from a dealer on a street corner. The latter is much more likely to be violating laws.
We need to get pressure on the sellers and wholesalers of these radios, through legislation, so they find it very unprofitable to sell these boxes. If anyone knowingly buys a radio capable of operating outside the CB bands, he's going to do exactly that.
Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP
St. Joseph, MO
Phineas
04-16-2003, 07:01 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We need to get pressure on the sellers and wholesalers of these radios, through legislation, so they find it very unprofitable to sell these boxes. #If anyone knowingly buys a radio capable of operating outside the CB bands, he's going to do exactly that.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Here we go again. Its the people who are talking out of band, not the radio. Most people who have these radios don't even know enough about them to talk out of band. People always rule out all of the hams out there that will cut their radio as soon as they can to make it able to TX out of band. If you think that just because you stop selling export radios in a truck stop that it will stop people from talking on freeband, I think you are sadly mistaken.
Enforcement has always been the only solution. More rules is not the solution.
Phineas
K0KMA
w9ass
04-16-2003, 07:06 PM
The export radio business is big time now since the FCC has more or less dropped their guns on the whole CB and 10 meter issue. For instance:
http://www.exportradios.com
Check this site out, and look at the equipment they offer and the modifications they make. Peaking, tuning, it's all there. Many of these radios are equipped for 10 meters, but they are garbage. Whenever I think of a roger beep on a cheap 10 meter rig, I get upset. This is like channel 19 all over again, for sure..
73's
KC9DGM
w0tdh
04-18-2003, 02:01 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Phineas @ April 16 2003,12http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We need to get pressure on the sellers and wholesalers of these radios, through legislation, so they find it very unprofitable to sell these boxes. #If anyone knowingly buys a radio capable of operating outside the CB bands, he's going to do exactly that.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Here we go again. Its the people who are talking out of band, not the radio. Most people who have these radios don't even know enough about them to talk out of band. People always rule out all of the hams out there that will cut their radio as soon as they can to make it able to TX out of band. If you think that just because you stop selling export radios in a truck stop that it will stop people from talking on freeband, I think you are sadly mistaken.
Enforcement has always been the only solution. More rules is not the solution.
Phineas
K0KMA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, here we go again............this subject has been written about by many folks in the past. #By the way, if you are offended by the deliberate use of "es" in my text you may stop reading now...... # #
You both are right.
Lack of enforcement es the availablity of the ILLEGAL RADIOS has created the problems that exist on our Bands.
Anyone that is Free Banding is just a thrill seeker hoping to get caught. Defying the Law es KNOWS what he is doing is ILLEGAL. Same disregard for the Law with folks operating inside the Ham Bands unlicensed.
THERE ARE NO EXCUSES.........period.
NO NEW RULES are needed. #Just enforce what is on the BOOKS.
By the way, it isn't just Ten Mtrs. Has anyone listened to 21.420kc of late ? #Several Islanders ( Barbados ? ) are so bored with the good life that they are playing music to one another.
Some well placed CW tests seemed to alert them that someone else could here them. They left. #They have been on many times in the past month.
I had a dream.........
Every weight station across America with huge dumpsters filled with smushed ILLEGAL RADIOS http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Tom - K0PJG
The FCC is now in the ACT, finally.
10 meter unlicensed, illegals has now got the attention of our ENFORCEMENT BRANCH.
This is the beginning and with a beginning there will be an end. The campaign has begun.
Years of efforts put forth, now it shall be action.
Fines, Courts, Jail and Confinscation is forthcoming.