Rude and discourteous contesters

[AE4JO]

One can only rack his brain in wonderment as to why contesters feel the need to throw the rules out the door when it's time to contest. As experienced this evening by the Rude and discourteous operating practices on 160 meter band. I think first the " ham licensed cb operators" should learn what the proper phoenetic alphabet is and second they should take time to tune up their receivers so they can hear a qso in progress. Surely they wouldn't #to talk on top of another Ham #"HI"" HI". #No the truth of the matter is they don't care,because it's their frequency because they are contesting.

It is my opinion that contesting is the major cause of #the degredation of our valued #frequencies.

I know my opinion will be bashed to the hilt....But
I'll bet you it will only be bashed by those who I just spoke of. "Ham licensed CB operators" #Most of which will be Gen-Extra #class vanity calls. Contesting serves no real value and should be abolished ,at least #limited to certain portions of 1 or 2 bands.

[wb4zoh]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (littlebit @ Feb. 22 2003,03:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Contesting serves no real value and should be abolished ,at least limited to certain portions of 1 or 2 bands.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Beating a &quot;dead horse!&quot; I've heard this expressed for 30 years!

[AE4JO]

30 years huh? My guess is Ham won't survive another 30 years...Not with the way they have dumbed down the hobby. Something else when a man with a 3rd grade education can memorize Q &amp; A and get an Extra (Fact)
The Government is letting Hams destroy the hobby so they can retake the valuable frequencies. The problem with contesting is most Hams won't stand up and be heard.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif nah... aint worth the effort it takes to type the words...kd4amg http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[AD5CA]

Wa Wa Wa.....
littlebit o'brains?
Mark #AD5CA

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif apparently we are in a double standard...first LITTLE BIT sez &quot; a man with a THIRD grade education can get an EXTRA class of licence &quot; ( read post #for his/her/its own words ).....sooo my question is : What is LITTLE BITS call sign ? ( or must we wait for a THIRD grade education )...hi hi hi #just a question, nuthin major...HF is so much fun #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ...kd4amg

[W8FAX]

I recently saw an article where a child of 5 or 6 upgraded to general. It's great that &quot;young-uns&quot; get into the hobby, but please. If a five year old can pass the general and 5 wpm code, I fail to see what the problem could POSSIBLY be for older mature adults. The next step WILL BE a form in your new radio manual packet, that you fill out and mail in. 30 years??? I don't believe we have anywhere near that long..............

[W1NCH]

&quot;I'll bet you it will only be bashed by those who I just spoke of. &quot;Ham licensed CB operators&quot; Most of which will be Gen-Extra class vanity calls. Contesting serves no real value and should be abolished ,at least limited to certain portions of 1 or 2 bands.&quot;

Well, I'm a Technician with a vanity call, so I'll take some exception to your assertion about who will reply, but I do agree that some contesters can get rather obnoxious and territorial.

I think contesting has some value, in that it can help a new ham better their operating skill in a shorter period of time. Of course, their &quot;skill&quot; will be in relation to the kinds of contacts they make and with whom they make them, so this point could be debated.

As for banning contesting from certain bands, there are always the WARC bands. It would be nice to have something lower (like the proposed 5Mhz allocation) that is also excluded, but this is a start.

FWIW, my ideas:

1) Eliminate contesting on 160m. It has always been called the &quot;gentlemen's band&quot; and eliminating contesting there could help maintain that reputation as well as provide a lower frequency free of contesting. This would leave 80, 40, 20, 15 and 10 for contesting and 160, 30, 17 and 12 for non-contesters; a more equitable split.

2) All contest sponsors should include in the rules of their particular contest(s) a note about causing interference to other hams WITH the specific language that excessive complaints from other hams will result in disqualification.

I state &quot;excessive&quot; because there are some who complain just because they can. One complaint may simply be someone with an axe to grind. However, if a contester starts calling &quot;CQ&quot; on top of a QSO in progress, he/she will be causing interference to many people. If they all complain, we have a pattern.

Specifically, I see this as doing two things:
--It could reduce the number of contests, since the sponsor would have to do more work tracking complaints to see if there is enough for disqualification.
--It would give non-contesters a method of recourse should they be trounced upon by a rude contester. However, this would also require some diligence on the part of those who have been wronged, since they would need to report the interference to the contest authority. This would help keep the number of axe grinders to a minimum.

I know--some of you think this will never work--but with enough pressure on the contest sponsors, it could be put in place. In fact, you can, even now, complain to the contest sponsors about the lids. With enough complaints, they might just implement such a system.

The alternative is to call the FCC, but we're supposed to be self-policing, right?

[K9STH]

Frankly, in most parts of the country, 160 meters is virtually unused 99 percent of the time. On any evening I am very lucky to find a total of 5 QSOs in the entire 1800 - 2000 KHz band. Usually there are only 1 or 2 during the evenings, sometimes none at all. The few contests that involve 160 meters do get the activity up. But, I still have never heard the band completely &quot;full&quot; even when contest activity is at the highest point.

Most HF contests are either CW or phone, not both. The VHF contests normally involve all modes. When a contest is phone, you can operate CW without any problems at all. When the contest is CW, you can operate phone. As far a VHF/UHF contests go, frankly, on CW and SSB, some bands only get any real operating level during a contest. Even 6 and 2 meter SSB do not have all that much operation. Besides, there is a lot of territory available for SSB and CW operation on 6 and 2 meters. Even more on 222 MHz and 432 MHz. Thus, no one is deprived of operating space.

On any band, your particular frequency (the one that you like to inhabit day after day) may be covered by contest operation. But, in the vast majority of cases you do have a VFO and can move away from that particular frequency. It may be inconvenient for the 24 to 48 hours that a contest lasts. But, remember that no one &quot;owns&quot; any particular frequency.

The arguments for and against contests have been going on since I received my license almost 44 years ago. Frankly, there is nothing new in the statements either for or against contests. Those comments are just being made by different people.

I don't operate that many contests anymore. However, in the past, I have operated the Sweepstakes, the ARRL DX, the CQ WWDX, the CQ WPX, various DX contests by other organizations like the Russians, VHF/UHF contests, etc. I have done very well from a suburban location (my lot is 70 x 130 feet) including taking the US and all of North America in various classifications. I have the certificates for the VHF contests as well. Again, from the same location.

You can find, during any contest period, a frequency on any mode to operate. It may not be your favorite frequency, and your operating friends may have to tune around to find you. But, no one is depriving you of operating.

Glen, K9STH

[w3sy]

Let's go back to debating code vs no-code. This contest thing is SUCH a non-issue. I operate the occasional contest, with November Sweeps being my favorite. (It's a finesse contest more than a brute-force contest.) If an SSB contest is on, and I'm not in it, I go CW or PSK. If it's a CW contest I'm not in, I go SSB. And as it's said over and over, there's always the WARC bands.

I think it's great that you WANT to operate in the first place, and I don't fault that. You just have to be more flexible. What do you do when propagation on your &quot;favorite band&quot; is lousy? Do you have a band switch on your rig? Can you operate more than one mode?

When I am in a contest, I always make sure a frequency is clear before transmitting, as most contesters do. An occupied frequency is usually of little use to a contester anyway. You are more likely to see intentional QRM from anti-contesters than the other way around.

Good Luck,

Steve W3SY (Held since '77 - not a Vanity Call. Sorry.)

[WB2WIK]

&quot;Littlebit&quot; is anonymous, and thus an nonentity. If you'd identify yourself, we might make some constructive comment.

I agree with Glen re 160m activity. Geesh, I am so happy when there's a contest so there's actually a band full of signals on 160...there are times when it's dead as a doornail, even when conditions are not bad. A week ago Friday evening, I tuned across the band and head about three signals, including one JA up in the higher subband they use and one guy on AM rachetjawing on about 1880 kHz.

I called &quot;CQ&quot; on CW down around 1825, and immediately raised Herb, KV4FZ, who is 3500 miles from me. He was &quot;599.&quot; Duh, who might we have interfered with? There was nobody around.

Last weekend for the CQ WW 160m Phone contest, I played around a bit, made about 50 contacts or so in very limited time on Saturday evening, and had fun. I didn't hear anyone operating poorly, at all. I only wish there was a contest every weekend, to liven up the band.

WB2WIK/6

[w3sy]

I thought I was the only one just a little bugged by &quot;anonymous&quot; posters. Glen, why not require all licensed hams post with their callsign as user ID? What's the rule, if any? It's not a huge deal, but I think we like to know who we're talking to.

Anyhoo, contests are a good idea. Makes us think about building station efficiency and operator ability. QRM is QRM -- whether or not it's the result of a contest being on. Sure beats listening to a &quot;dead&quot; band, as OM WB2WIK/6 suggests.

Out....

[K9STH]

For SY:

If it were my site I would definitely require either a valid amateur call if licensed or a real name if not. However, I don't own the site and the site owner doesn't require that. Fortunately, over 95 percent of those who post on QRZ.com use either their real name or real call sign.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[kd5rpo]

I agree with Glen's view on the contests. I don't send in any results for them, but find it a great way to check out how well my antenna and rig are working.
What I do is to answer some of the stations calling CQ or QRZ and see if things work. I like to help give some points and have been thanked for the New Mexico multiplier.

My only complaint would be how congested things get on 20 Meters. That is the only band where I have heard regular abuse.
160 this weekend was the only time I have ever got an answer using the band outside of the Albuqurque area.
A few in Arizona and Colorado, and to my surprise a comeback from Beloit Kansas. Report indicated good copy even with 100W and 50ft of wire thrown across the flat roof at 15 ft above ground. All stations called on Sunday morning just before dawn returned my call.

160 is very vacant here 90 percent of the time. 2 or 3 frequencies in use and rarely is it anyone here in state.

[W1RFI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W8FAX @ Feb. 22 2003,07:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I recently saw an article where a child of 5 or 6 upgraded to general. It's great that &quot;young-uns&quot; get into the hobby, but please. If a five year old can pass the general and 5 wpm code, I fail to see what the problem could POSSIBLY be for older mature adults. The next step WILL BE a form in your new radio manual packet, that you fill out and mail in. 30 years??? I don't believe we have anywhere near that long..............[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think first reference I ever saw to a 6-year old General was in the 1960s. Has ham radio really been ruined all that time and we just didn't know it?

I bet that most of the hams studying today would rather study that 16-page General class study guide I had to use to get my license...

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

[AE4JO]

As I said in my original post ...the bashing would come from those who cause the problem.It is really funny how some can take bits and peices of what they read and form an argument as lame as some of the responses posted here.
If I had been required to use my call when I signed up I would have done so. Yes I am a licensed ham and I received phone calls at all hours of the night by those whose toes I stepped on.
As far as legitimizing contesting as a way for new hams to learn operating procedures...I can only laugh at that one. Very few contesters even take time to check for use on the frequency let alone except the fact that someone is there.
When I come upon a frequency that is being used by a contester I do move on or shut it off. The problem I mentioned was when a Licensed Ham CBer come on freq and #starts calling CQ on top of a QSO in progress.
It is quite obvious that a few of those who posted a response to my posting subscribe to the above method of operation.
As for The tech with a vanity call #the word vanity says it all.

[w3sy]

&quot;Little Bit&quot; -- I have no personal beef with you, but I do have a few comments:

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;As I said in my original post ...the bashing would come from those who cause the problem.&quot;</span>

Nostradamus, you ain't. Naturally, any disagreement with your original premise would come from those who like contesting. It's not &quot;bashing&quot; -- please don't over-dramatize a simple difference of opinion.

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;If I had been required to use my call when I signed up I would have done so. Yes I am a licensed ham and I received phone calls at all hours of the night by those whose toes I stepped on.&quot;</span>

Hey, so don't step on toes. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Needless to say, people who take what they read here so seriously that they harass another user &quot;offline&quot; are sick puppies. I had a pimply little mental case from Australia send me hate messages to private e-mail, but that's as far as it's ever gone. (I got his ISP to cut him off.) If you are getting multiple people that mad, perhaps you should watch how you flame. That's just a suggestion.

In any case, flaming from behind an alias is &quot;bush.&quot; The rule oughtta be that you can use an alias if you want to, but you can't flame. If you wanna flame, post your call and take full responsibility for your remarks. Haw! I like it! WOT SA, GLEN OM?

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;As far as legitimizing contesting as a way for new hams to learn operating procedures...I can only laugh at that one. Very few contesters even take time to check for use on the frequency let alone except the fact that someone is there.&quot;</span>

I can only tell you what I have observed, and I'd say MOST contesters check to see if a frequency is in use. Why would a contester want a busy frequency? Why would he want to try to copy his contacts over an existing QSO? To paint contesters with a broad brush as ignorant, inconsiderate fools is simply unfair.

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;When I come upon a frequency that is being used by a contester I do move on or shut it off.&quot;</span>

As opposed to....? I would hope that's what you'd do in the case of a frequency being occupied by ANYONE, except perhaps someone calling CQ.

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;The problem I mentioned was when a Licensed Ham CBer come on freq and #starts calling CQ on top of a QSO in progress.&quot;</span>

Well, that would be an ignorant thing to do, and nobody should condone behavior of that type. Please consider that perhaps, due to propagation, the contester might not have heard the station that was transmitting at the time. Still, he should at least ask &quot;Frequency in use?&quot; before proceding. But let me ask -- When this happens, and the contester is told the frequency is in use, what happens next? If he apologizes and moves on, cut him some slack -- it was probably an honest mistake.

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;It is quite obvious that a few of those who posted a response to my posting subscribe to the above method of operation.&quot;</span>

Really? Who said it's okay to trash a QSO in progress? Disagreeing with your feelings about contesting does not automatically make one a proponent of deliberate QRM.

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;As for The tech with a vanity call #the word vanity says it all.&quot;</span>

I'm not completely thrilled with the whole Vanity Call program and how it has been implemented either, but what in the world does that have to do with your original point about inconsiderate operating practices? If you are saying <span style='color:red'>vanity call = contester, contester = rude operator, therefore vanity call = rude operator</span>, you're out in left field somewhere. Stick to the real problem and you'll be taken more seriously.

I'm not a real hard core contester, as I might have said. I like a contest now and then, but I don't LIVE for 'em. But I do know that when a contest is on a certain band and/or mode, and I don't want to participate, I don't go there. Why look for trouble? We have enough bands and enough modes to go around. Try to have fun, and don't do things you know will lead to stress and anxiety.

Chill, dood.

Out.

[WB2WIK]

Hey Steve, maybe &quot;littlebit&quot; has a &quot;little one,&quot; and the complex that goes with it?

Your response was right on the mark.

And I feel no sorrow for anyone with a listed phone number. For $6 a year, anyone can get it unlisted and save the unsolicited calls.

WB2WIK/6

[AE4JO]

Stephen,
I have no beef with you either. But the point remains that a large portion of todays contesters are rude and discourteous. and a majority of those I speak of have vanity calls.
But this goes back to what I said in my last post....How some can take bits and pieces of a post and make lame excuses.
First I agree that all contesters don't interrupt QSO's in progress...The particular instance I referred to in my original post was by a ham in Alabama who has a history of this type of behavior. On every band I have ever heard him on. Next, Him being from within 30 miles of 2 of the stations involved in the qso (between them) and both stations having a minimum of 30 over signal it would be hard to believe it could be unintentional.
As far as watching about stepping on toes #..I believe that is one of the reasons Ham Radio has been dumbed down to a point that Even good Hams are flamed for speaking out against the ones that are contributing to the demise of our hobby. I too have been a ham a long time and have seen many changes. That reason I don't use my call is for the reason I expressed in my last post.
So rather than bashing the messenger,Why don't sit and listen on contest day (keyword= LISTEN) and I am sure you will see and experience what I speak of.
Granted it is awful hard to hear when you're calling CQ Contest,especially when using a looped tape keyer.
Now you can pick this post apart too. If you're not part of the solution,then you are part of the problem.
Try spending more time helping to clean it up than defending the actions of those whose sole purpose is to destroyit.

The first line was meant only for Stephen..The rest applies to all.

[AE4JO]

Steven...I can always tell when I stepped on someones toes......They always start with the personal attacks. BTW&quot; Littlebit has a little one&quot;...Little what Steven? Your post would imply that I am a Male. Surprise!!! female 48 here. so think before you talk Steven.

[K9STH]

Actually, if the offending station was within about 30 miles of the other stations there is a VERY good chance that he did not hear them! Propagation is such on most of the HF bands most of the time, that anything over 15 to 20 miles out to several hundred miles are not heard. This is especially true on 20 through 10 all the time and on 160 through 40 during the evening hours.

Possibly on a very quiet band, with no one else operating, you might hear someone 30 miles away. But, during a contest the background noise (splatter, nearby stations, etc.) would drown out anything that might be heard under quiet conditions.

As for the stations being &quot;30 over 9&quot;: This may be at your location. Also, what type of rig are you using for receiving? Most rigs these days do not use the old S-9 = 50 microvolts but have reading somewhere in the S-9 = 5 to 10 microvolts. The &quot;30 over&quot; readings often happen at around 10 to 20 microvolts which is well under 10 dB over the elevated S-9 reading! This I have measured on numerous &quot;newer&quot; solid-state transceivers using calibrated attenuators on service monitors and signal generators. Up until around 1980 most equipment still had the old S-9 = 50 microvolts and &quot;30 dB over 9&quot; was definitely 30 dB increase in signal strength. However, as a marketing &quot;ploy&quot;, most manufacturers these days try to convince you that their equipment receives better since the &quot;S&quot; meter shows higher whereas when check with the proper test equipment the reading should be well under S-9 using the standard that was used from the 1930s until the 1980s.

Now, let us not start getting personal. There are definitely people out there who think contests should be banned forever and they are entitled to their opinion. However, both sides need to only express their non-personal attack opinions (&quot;just the facts, m'am, just the facts&quot;) and keep from starting with the personal attacks. Otherwise, if things start getting personal I'll have to shut things down. If they get too bad, then the bannings will start and I don't want that to happen.

Glen, K9STH

[LY2MW]

Well, as I see Top band is overloaded not only in Europe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Last CQWW 160m SSB operation was from 1810 up to 1900 kHz. And mostly on all frequencies you can here 2-3 stations calling CQ or making QSOs and (perhaps) do not hear each other. And they are not CBers, there was many well known calls and great contesters. Perhaps there is too many hams or too narrow bands all over the World (choose one http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ). Littlebit, you must accept the situation all we are in. On the other hand there is WARC bands where is quiet enough during the contests or if you need more silence - go up to VUSHF where more less every QSO is a small holliday. I like HF contests as well as I like the hard work on VHF with few weak signals on all portion of band. Thats a life. And use your call and let us know you are not a simple CBer... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

73, Remi LY2MW

[AE4JO]

Glen,
In case you weren't paying attention the personal attacks were directed at me, ie: &quot;littlebit has a little one&quot;. This will be my last post and as I said before I havn't used my call for obvious reasons. Many of these licensed CB operators can also be found on what has become known as the freebands and wouldn't hesitate to call someone in the middle of the night. My phone is listed because I am a public servant and my phone must be listed to assist me in my job. It is also obvious that this site is dedicated to the preservation of those who would destroy something a precious as our Ham bands. Count me out Glen.

[w3sy]

&quot;Littlebit&quot; #--

Please call me &quot;Steve.&quot; http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Well your heart seems to be in the right place. Courtesy should be every ham's rule. Common sense would be helpful too!

I can accept the fact that not every ham likes contests. Again, I only enter a few myself. Please accept several facts, however:

1) Contests will not go away.

2) SOME people will be rude no matter what, intentionally or unintentionally. Contest or no contest.

3) You must, and can, avoid situations that are potentially unpleasant, like trying to keep a sked or have a nice ragchew during a major contest.

4) Most contesters really try to be considerate of others when working a contest.

You love hamming, and that's why you started this topic in the first place. I'm with you on the &quot;dumbing down&quot; and general inconsideration aspects. I just hope you will not over-generalize about contesters and vanity call holders. These sweeping generalizations cloud and weaken the valid points you are trying to express.

By the way, please don't think I was picking your post apart. I use quoting to organize my responses, so that it doesn't seem so much like I'm rambling. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

And I suspected you might have been YL. Maybe I'm guilty of &quot;profiling&quot; and generalization myself, but &quot;littlebit&quot; does not seem like a guy's nickname. HAW!

As for the phone harassment, consider getting Caller ID. You can then set it up to block calls from people who block their number display. Then if someone harasses you, save the number on your Caller ID display, and turn 'em in to the authorities. Phone harassment is a serious crime, and these days the technology makes it very easy to nail an offender.

THEN you can post your remarks with your callsign. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

G'day,
Steve W3SY

[WB2WIK]

I'm overjoyed that he/she/it went away, whoever they were.

Geesh.

[K9STH]

My caution against getting personal was aimed at everyone since there were several people who were starting to slide with their comments.

There are certain topics that are, or very soon become, &quot;flame bait&quot;. Those people who enter into the discussion of those topics need to have a very &quot;thick&quot; skin or else they should not either bring up the subject or make comments about the subject. I definitely wish that people would discuss everything in an adult (and I don't mean &quot;adult&quot; as in the Internet &quot;adult sites&quot; meaning), rational, non-emotional manner. Unfortunately, that is not often the case when certain subjects are brought up.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[W8FAX]

Gee Ed, ya awhtta read the ARRL Letters a little more closely. I went and looked, and it was posted in the Feb. 7 ARRL send out. It was a six year old and she upgraded, so I guess she held another class at even a younger age. And we gotta listen to all this crying about how tough the tests are and how hard the code is. Phooey. If a six year old can do it, it sure can't be that tough for an adult. By the way Ed, you can get set up on the ARRL web site to get the letter every week by email if you are a member. It's easy.............AL/W8FAX

[W8FAX]

It was volume 22, number six and said in part.................A six-year-old girl from Roseburg, Oregon, has upgraded from Technician to
General. Mattie Clauson, KD7TYN--a fourth-generation Amateur Radio
operator in her family--could be the youngest General-class operator in
the US. Her new ticket was granted January 13.
.................73 Al/W8FAX

[W8FAX]

MS Littlebit......Did you used to sing in a band?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I'm serious here. I worked with a lady who went by the nickname little bit cuz of her physical size. (during the 70's) She could sure belt'em out tho', and was a crowd pleaser wherever we played. I wasn't with her long, as I moved on to a road band, but I remembered that nickname........Al/W8FAX

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I aint gonna git personal with LITTLEBIT ( sez she is a licenced amateur, but refuses to give a call sign...her right to say that )...but I aint heard any &quot;potty-mouths&quot; on my HF rig in 3 weeks of being a GENERAL class op... but I only got a g5rv antenna up 42 feet in the air, down to about 10 feet high at each end...so i guess I am lucky NOT to have any &quot;potty-mouths&quot; in my receiver ( might take up shack and LIVE there, have to open the case and run them out )...GOD bless the U S A ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif kd4amg

[w8ob]

Ed what study guide are you always talking about? I took my general in the 60's I used the ARRL license manual, and the Ameco study guide to learn the theory. On my exam there were only about 3 questions that were duplicates of the ones in the study guide. I am having trouble understanding how anybody thinks the exams are so much harder now especially since you get all the questions and answers to memorize. Most people can memorize all the answers for a given element in only a couple of weeks of reading. I am getting a little off tangent here but I am still awe struck that a kid that just learned how to ride a bicycle can also get the top shelf license. I guess this is what is called progress.

[K2PG]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Feb. 22 2003,13:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Frankly, in most parts of the country, 160 meters is virtually unused 99 percent of the time. #On any evening I am very lucky to find a total of 5 QSOs in the entire 1800 - 2000 KHz band. #Usually there are only 1 or 2 during the evenings, sometimes none at all. #The few contests that involve 160 meters do get the activity up. #But, I still have never heard the band completely &quot;full&quot; even when contest activity is at the highest point.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is certainly not the case here in the Northeast. While normal occupancy of the 1800-1820 kHz segment is light (typically a few CW QSOs there plus the W1AW CW bulletins), the DX window is often loaded with stations. You will hear some nasty pileups between 1820 and 1843 on those clear winter nights when we get trans-Atlantic openings. Numerous SSB stations can be heard in one-on-one ragchews and roundtables throughout the band, while the AM frequencies of 1885, 1890, and 1945 usually have some pretty big roundtables on them.

Out here, 160 even has its share of activity during the summer QRN season. The higher power stations will continue to operate during the summer.

During the ARRL and CQ Magazine 160 meter contests, the entire band is trashed. If it is a CW contest, I will hear CW stations up to at least 1950 or 1960 kHz, if not to the upper limit of the band. If it is a SSB contest, contesters will crowd the entire band from 1800 to 2000 kHz, leaving no room for other kinds of activity. To someone who spends most of his time on 160, as I do, these contests are really obnoxious.

I agree with W1NCH that 160 should be made &quot;contest-free&quot;, to give us a low band alternative to the finicky WARC bands. If the contest sponsors cannot or will not limit their activity to segments of the non-WARC bands, we should at least make 160 contest-free. If we get a new 60 meter band, that should also be contest-free. Then, the contesters could tie up 80/75, 40, 20, 15, and 10 to their hearts' content and we non-contesters would have an alternative.

This argument is nothing new. It has existed since the first contest was organized.

[K2PG]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2WIK @ Feb. 23 2003,17http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Geesh, I am so happy when there's a contest so there's actually a band full of signals on 160...there are times when it's dead as a doornail, even when conditions are not badI called &quot;CQ&quot; on CW down around 1825, and immediately raised Herb, KV4FZ, who is 3500 miles from me. #He was &quot;599.&quot; #Last weekend for the CQ WW 160m Phone contest, I played around a bit, made about 50 contacts or so in very limited time on Saturday evening, and had fun. #I didn't hear anyone operating poorly, at all. #I only wish there was a contest every weekend, to liven up the band.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Don't do us any favors here on the East Coast. That contest totally trashed the band for us regulars last weekend. And the contest activity went from 1800 to 2000 kHz, so there was nowhere to go to escape it!

Out here, 160 is anything but &quot;dead&quot;. While the activity is a bit sparse from 1800-1820 (except for some local ragchewers and the W1AW CW bulletins), the rest of the band is loaded with stations. And we don't have to put up with the B.S. that goes on in the 75 meter band, where you have gross overcrowding and turf wars. We have the DX window from 1820 to 1843, where you can hear some nasty pileups when we get a trans-Atlantic opening these crisp winter nights. SSB ragchews and roundtables abound in the rest of the band, while we have some pretty big roundtables on the Eastern AM frequencies of 1885, 1890, and 1945 kHz. There are the Saturday night bulletins of WA0RCR on 1860, which serve as a good propagation beacon for the Midwest.

If you can work the Virgin Islands on 160, give a listen for me on AM mode on 1885 or 1945. I have yet to work the West Coast, even though I can run the legal limit. Since many of our local AM'ers run Valiants, DX-100s, and other rigs in the 100 watt class, you might not be hearing them on the West Coast. Many of the SSB stations are also running barefoot into inefficient antennas, so you probably cannot hear them, either.

But it would be better to get the contests off 160 altogether. The WARC bands are all in the higher part of the HF spectrum. They are usually useless for DX propagation at night, when #I do most of my operating. 160 is where I go to unwind.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Feb. 21 2003,19:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif nah... aint worth the effort it takes to type the words...kd4amg http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yet you write three threads the last consisting of a 103 word waffle. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif are you sure it was 103 words? a recount please...( I was unaware you thought so much of ME , but you aint gittin nuthin fer Christmas )

[w3sy]

103 word waffle? Can I have some SYRUP on that, please!

hehehehe....