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KY5U
05-24-2009, 12:26 AM
Is the Advanced License class Ham Radio or just elitist snobbery? I mean it's a dead license class and Extra gives more privleges. Whassup wit dat?

K2QI
05-24-2009, 12:28 AM
Is the Extra License class Ham Radio or just elitist snobbery?

K8ERV
05-24-2009, 12:48 AM
Is the Advanced License class Ham Radio or just elitist snobbery? I mean it's a dead license class

Dead? Gee, no one told me about that. I've been an advanced for about 50 years.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

WB2WIK
05-24-2009, 12:52 AM
No, it's not ham radio. However it's elitist, in that every licensed Advanced passed a 13 wpm code test, there was no way around it.

KK4ASS
05-24-2009, 12:52 AM
The advanced class are like relatives I don't like - they eventually die off and go away.

WB2WIK
05-24-2009, 12:53 AM
No, it's not ham radio. However it's elitist, in that every licensed Advanced passed a 13 wpm code test, there was no way around it.

::In retrospect, I'm not even sure about that! Were there any upgrade paths from Tech to Advanced that didn't include a code test? There might have been, I really don't remember!

K2QI
05-24-2009, 12:54 AM
The advanced class are like relatives I don't like - they eventually die off and go away.

Wow. That was rough. :p

AG3Y
05-24-2009, 02:05 AM
I agree, If I were an Advanced Class amateur, I would take it as a personal attack !

N2RJ
05-24-2009, 02:13 AM
No, it's not ham radio. However it's elitist, in that every licensed Advanced passed a 13 wpm code test, there was no way around it.

Wow, a whole 13WPM! :rolleyes:

N5MOA
05-24-2009, 02:29 AM
No, it's not ham radio. However it's elitist, in that every licensed Advanced passed a 13 wpm code test, there was no way around it.

I had one of those for about 3 months, 20 years ago.

I went ahead and upgraded.

I didn't want to be considered elitist, and I certainly didn't want to be personally attacked.:D

Maybe the thread should be re-titled "Why are some Extras such elitist snobs?"

KJ3N
05-24-2009, 02:31 AM
I want the FCC to do an automatic upgrade of all Advanced to Extra, just to see if certain people would make good on their threat to turn in their license before accepting the "upgrade". ;)

N5PVL
05-24-2009, 02:50 AM
Seems like there's a lot of confusion here between the words 'elitist' and 'elite'.

All the real loser types see any kind of accomplishment as 'elitist'. There's essentially no difference in spirit there from the black kids who pick on other black kids who get good grades, for 'being white'.

Then there's always some uber-loser who makes a comment about other hams dying off... That kind of talk is not just low class... It's NO class. For that kind of 'ham', I have only the back of my hand.

But that's just me! - I understand why some would disagree, and they are welcome to do so.

K7SGJ
05-24-2009, 03:23 AM
Tell ya what, I've held the Advanced license for alot of years. I passed that on the same day I passed my First Phone test. At that time, as others have mentioned, the code was 13wpm. For many reasons, my on air activity for the past several years was on hold. I just recently dusted off the equipment, hung a few homebrew antennas, and got back on HF. I had forgotten how much I enjoyed the hobby. There is so much to catch up on. For me, I am satisfied with my current license. It is true the Extra would allow a little more spectrum, but I don't feel there is any challange for me to upgrade. The challange was never the written test; I know that material. The challange was always the 20wpm. The lack of operating time caused my code speed to deteriorate. Use it, or lose it is a true story, especially when it comes to cw speed and accuracy.

If the FCC did away with the Advanced class license, and did an automatic upgrade to Extra for those that held it, of course I would have to accept it. I wouldn't throw my license of 47 years away. That would be dumb. I wouldn't feel that I had earned the additional privledges, but I certainly would not get out of the hobby. Is Advanced Class amatuer radio? Sure. Do I care what anyone else thinks? Nope. Is Echolink, Digital, IRLP, or anything else associated with this hobby Ham Radio? I don't know the precise answer. I think the answer is more emotional than technical. Do I really care? Nope. If I want to incorporate any of them into my on air operation, I will do so. There will always be someone else on the other end of a CQ, no matter how you call it. Do I care about that? You bet your ass I do.
73
eddie

AE1PT
05-24-2009, 03:51 AM
. Is Advanced Class amatuer radio? Sure. Do I care what anyone else thinks? Nope. Is Echolink, Digital, IRLP, or anything else associated with this hobby Ham Radio? I don't know the precise answer. I think the answer is more emotional than technical. Do I really care? Nope. If I want to incorporate any of them into my on air operation, I will do so. There will always be someone else on the other end of a CQ, no matter how you call it. Do I care about that? You bet your ass I do.
73
eddie

That sir is possibly the most sensible and enlightened answer that will appear here!

Who cares? Get on the radio and forget these "is dressing like a dork and not bathing ham radio" type threads.:eek:

W5HTW
05-24-2009, 04:12 AM
::In retrospect, I'm not even sure about that! Were there any upgrade paths from Tech to Advanced that didn't include a code test? There might have been, I really don't remember!

No, there was no such path. What could have occurred though, is a Conditional License could have taken the Advanced. The Advanced could only be taken at an FCC examining point, and I am not sure that the code test credit was available for the Conditional, since that was a "mail order' license. I don't think the FCC accepted the Conditional as proof one had passed a 13 wpm test. Probabliy a good thing, too, as I know for a fact some people got Conditional licenses without passing a code test, sort of an early version of the buddy system.

A Technician could go directly to Advanced, of course, but only at the FCC office, in front of the FCC examiner, and he would have to pass the 13 wpm code test before he even got to the written. In those days a Technician could NOT go directly to an Extra Class license.

Ed

N7RJD
05-24-2009, 04:18 AM
Who cares? Get on the radio and forget these "is dressing like a dork and not bathing ham radio" type threads.:eek:

Well there you go side stepping the question again. :D:D

WW3QB
05-24-2009, 06:13 AM
Is trolling on QRZ ham radio?

40m was open from the east coast to Hawaii, Europe, and South America tonight. I stayed up late to enjoy it. It was foolish of me to check QRZ after a good night of real on the air operating.

G8ADD
05-24-2009, 09:40 AM
Is the Extra License class Ham Radio or just elitist snobbery?

I resemble that remark!

The Advanced class is the highest grade of license in the UK, it is the grade that I am proud to infest!

73

Brian G8ADD

WD4CHP
05-24-2009, 11:10 AM
There was a time when the holder of an Extra class license was the elitist.

The code was the key.

Now just about anyone can get one.

Origionally the exams were write out the answers and draw the schematics.

Not multiple guess.

As an advanced, the code is still the key that seperates those who could and those who couldn't.

I do not know how it is now, but in the old USSR you had to be able to build your own receiver and be active in a radio club for 2 years before you are considered for a license.

Be happy with what you have and enjoy the hobby.

K0RGR
05-24-2009, 11:15 AM
Actually, if they were licensed in the 1930's as a 'Class A' amateur, they would have been grandfathered into Advanced after WWII. And, they may have passed a 10 WPM code test, not 13. I don't remember the year the requirement was increased to 13.

VO1GXG
05-24-2009, 12:12 PM
Is elitist snobbery ham radio?

KR2C
05-24-2009, 01:46 PM
All the real loser types see any kind of accomplishment as 'elitist'. There's essentially no difference in spirit there from the black kids who pick on other black kids who get good grades, for 'being white'.






Then there's always some uber-loser who makes a comment about other hams dying off... That kind of talk is not just low class... It's NO class. For that kind of 'ham', I have only the back of my hand.




Between these two comments, I am now completely confused as to where to draw the line for "no class" :D

N5PVL
05-24-2009, 01:50 PM
Between these two comments, I am now completely confused as to where to draw the line for "no class" :D

I am sorry to hear that... In time, perhaps you will be visited by wisdom and your confusion will be abated.

N8CPA
05-24-2009, 02:00 PM
Not just because I use actual umlauts when using fused German-English epithets, but from early August to mid-October '93, I was a 20WPM Advanced. And until that August, I had never failed an AR exam. On that hot, August day, I did fail the Extra, which was mostly administrative rigamarole which I had not studied.

To be fair, the VE administered Advanced looked exactly like the FCC administered General I had taken 14 years before.

KB9BVN
05-24-2009, 02:13 PM
Maybe the thread should be re-titled "Why are some Extras such elitist snobs?"

Or "Why are some hams such fat smelly lazy whiners?"

Or "Why are some Tech and General class licensees too lazy to open a book?"

Or "Why can't everyone just kiss my butt a little, we'll all get along fine then."

Or "How did all these stupid people get a ham license?"

KY5U
05-24-2009, 03:16 PM
Or "Why are some hams such fat smelly lazy whiners?"

Or "Why are some Tech and General class licensees too lazy to open a book?"

Or "Why can't everyone just kiss my butt a little, we'll all get along fine then."

Or "How did all these stupid people get a ham license?"
EXACTLY!! Some Advanced class doofus started a thread about something or other and whether it is "ham radio". My point is (and others have started threads) that this stupid logic can be applied to anything. The winlink and echolink threads concerned why people get licenses and whether an internet based ham radio related site can be "ham radio". These "is a ham radio ham radio?" threads are asinine. I mean I'm just sayin'.

KJ3N
05-24-2009, 03:52 PM
Is elitist snobbery ham radio?

Well, it's QRZ for sure. :rolleyes:

WB2WIK
05-24-2009, 04:02 PM
Wow, a whole 13WPM! :rolleyes:

::Yeah, true. But it's about 12.99 wpm more than all new U.S. hams of any license class have to take. I rounded that off.:p

K3UD
05-24-2009, 06:13 PM
Tell ya what, I've held the Advanced license for alot of years. I passed that on the same day I passed my First Phone test. At that time, as others have mentioned, the code was 13wpm. For many reasons, my on air activity for the past several years was on hold. I just recently dusted off the equipment, hung a few homebrew antennas, and got back on HF. I had forgotten how much I enjoyed the hobby.
eddie


Like you I also passed the Advanced but tested for the 2nd Class Phone on the same day at the FCC Customs House In Philadelphia. I always thought that the Advanced was the toughest test I ever took. The Extra written test was not close to the Advanced and I held it for 30 years. I can understand the reasoning of those who, for whatever reasons, probably feel that it is the only class that can be proven to have passed the 13WPM code requirement.

Having talked about this with Advanced Class Ops on the air and at Hamfests and they seem to be proud of it. Would the remaining Advanced Class accept a Grandfather to Extra if it was offered to them? Most likely a few would upgrade but I think that the majority of them would probably say "Thanks, but no thanks".

73
George
K3UD

AG3Y
05-24-2009, 06:25 PM
I held a Commercial 1st Class Radio-Telephone Operators license, and an Advanced Amateur ticket both at the same time. I had gone straight to Advanced from Novice in one sitting, and had already had the 1st Phone for several years, when I was prodded by a friend to get the amateur licenses. Two reasons I did not try for Extra that day. 1. The 20 WPM code test was just to uncomfortably fast for me, and 2. I still needed several months of operating to be eligible to take that Extra, so reason #1 was pretty academic at that point !

I really cannot tell you if the Advanced was more difficult than the Extra in those days. I seem to remember that the Extra went into the more esoteric modes such as RTTY and SSTV which were almost brand-new protocols on the air at that time.

I was thrilled to get my Extra, when the time came, and I wouldn't have stuck at Advanced for anything ! I'm not being a snob. I just felt that I had really accomplished something ! A personal challenge, met.

73, Jim

WW3QB
05-24-2009, 06:29 PM
.... I can understand the reasoning of those who, for whatever reasons, probably feel that it is the only class that can be proven to have passed the 13WPM code requirement.

Having talked about this with Advanced Class Ops on the air and at Hamfests and they seem to be proud of it. Would the remaining Advanced Class accept a Grandfather to Extra if it was offered to them? Most likely a few would upgrade but I think that the majority of them would probably say "Thanks, but no thanks".

73
George
K3UD

Those who actually use CW would want very badly to be able to use the bottom 25 kHz of the bands. Therefore, those who are so proud of passing a 13 WPM code test but don't want Extra are also admitting they are not that interested in CW anyway. Such irony.

I got my Advanced at age 15 in 1974. Easier than a high school geometry test. Perhaps it was harder in the 1960s. I got my Extra in 2008 so I can get to the CW DX. Also got my DXCC later that year because of that upgrade.

K7SGJ
05-24-2009, 07:20 PM
Those who actually use CW would want very badly to be able to use the bottom 25 kHz of the bands. Therefore, those who are so proud of passing a 13 WPM code test but don't want Extra are also admitting they are not that interested in CW anyway. Such irony.

I got my Advanced at age 15 in 1974. Easier than a high school geometry test. Perhaps it was harder in the 1960s. I got my Extra in 2008 so I can get to the CW DX. Also got my DXCC later that year because of that upgrade.

Hi
Not so, at least for me there is no irony or disinterest. Having my Advanced is not an "in your face thing". I do enjoy cw. When I got my license, that is all a novice could do, 75 watts input, max. (Some 2 meter ops too, as I recall) I enjoyed cw then, and I enjoy it now. I can do all of the code I want in the spectrum I am entitled to work. Although I do enjoy 15-20wpm, I especially like to work stations that are "slow and sloppy". Those would be the ones new to cw. They need someone to work to get their proficiency up, too. Just like all of us did at one time. It is a real thrill for me when someone says "your my first contact" or at least one of the first few. Besides, when I get much over 20wpm any more, my brain can't keep up with my fist. Maybe it is an early sign of Alzhiemers or something. Besides, the faster I go, the quicker it's over. So true of so many things in my life these days.
eddie

KV1M
05-24-2009, 07:59 PM
No. They are a vestige of days gone by, best discarded and forgotten.

W0JBC
05-24-2009, 09:51 PM
Yepper ... The Advanced Class .


I passed the 20 wpm at the same time I took the test for Advanced ... ( the first class radio telephone also and passed )

I DID take the Extra test at that time ... I failed by " 2 " ....

I really had just skimmed the Extra syllabus before trekking to the Kansas City ( MO ) field office . At that time, the Extra dealt with satellites and controls etc ...

Actually, the reason for testing for the Advanced was to allow ME to work SSTV on 20 meters .. That is what I went for and acheived ... Not even three months later, the FCC gave those frequencies away to the General class ....

There are quite a few Advanced Class operators out there ....

Notable Advanced would be ME along with WIK , and K9EID ( one of my friends ) who most might see his audio products being sold ... K9EID is Bob Heil .....

Ya know the Heil microphones ????

He is just a stupid advanced class op ....

We all had the 13 wpm under our collective belts ..

I will not upgrade ... I do not need to upgrade ( downgrade ) to the coveted Extra ....

As has been stated on this thread , when they look me up and see that I am just a stupid Advanced Class , they also will know that I at LEAST passed the dreaded 13 wpm test ....

I CAN tell you that the Extra ( today ) is not as difficult as the Advanced was back then .... I HAVE seen the tests for Extra ... I HAVE compared them to each other ...

I do not want the FCC to " give me " a grandfathered upgrade !!!

Elite ?? No .... RARE ??? Indeed .... I had to learn something for those tests ... They WERE NOT easy ... We did not have the exact questions and answers ....

I am PROUD to be a stupid Advanced Class op ....

No one GAVE me anything ....


Advanced Class = Dedication and hard work .....


I , also , have three logbooks filled with CW only contacts .

No computers involved ( code-readers etc ) ....

Have fun with this thread ... From ,


JB WJBC/8 ( Ex KBTT , look me up )

AR

K8ERV
05-24-2009, 10:01 PM
The advanced class are like relatives I don't like - they eventually die off and go away.

Can you wait awhile more?

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

K8ERV
05-24-2009, 10:18 PM
Or "How did all these stupid people get a ham license?"

In my case, it wasn't easy-----

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

KV1M
05-24-2009, 10:20 PM
In my case, it wasn't easy-----

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

I agree, it took iron willed determination to buy the one I have.

WB2WIK
05-24-2009, 10:34 PM
[QUOTE=W0JBC;1585233
I CAN tell you that the Extra ( today ) is not as difficult as the Advanced was back then .... I HAVE seen the tests for Extra ... I HAVE compared them to each other ...
[/QUOTE]

::Yep. But then, everything's easier today than it used to be. There used to be a 1st Class Commercial Radiotelephone license, now it's just a GROL and if you compare the exams, it's silly. I recall my behind-the-wheel driver's test which involved 40 minutes of freeway driving and having to parallel park between road cones spaced the length of the car plus maybe 18" longer, and if you ended up hitting either road cone or parking more than 12" from the curb, you failed. Now, it's driving on side streets at less than 30 mph and no parallel parking -- which is astonishing considering there's a lot more traffic today, along with many more hazards.

Progress is good, it contributes to the ongoing dumbing down of society in general.;)

I know many people who don't even have library cards, even though they are free.

I have local ham friends who ask questions here on the internet, when they could look up anything they needed in the Engineering Library at Cal State Northridge, a 5 minute drive away, and in the process learn not just the answer, but how the answer was derived. Or, if they're really interested, they could audit any engineering course the University offers, at no cost at all. Just a matter of showing up and finding a seat.

My kids used to ask why I went to college in the evenings when I had already graduated decades ago. I told them, "Because I can learn new stuff, and they don't even charge for it! This is the best deal in the world."

Things are not headed in the right direction. Evidence is our economic condition, today.:p

WB2WIK/6

W0IS
05-25-2009, 03:58 AM
Well, I guess it's time to let everyone in on the secret.

For la creme de la creme of elitist snobbery, you have to dig a bit more. You look up a 1x2 callsign, and under the expanded listing, you need to look at the "code". The true elitist snobs are those with a listing of "HAI". These outrank Advanced.

Of course, most of us never bother looking up someone else's license class. But if you're going to all the trouble of pinpointing the elitist snobs, you may as well do it right.

K9STH
05-25-2009, 02:30 PM
After consulting with Fred I am shutting down all of these "Are" and "Is" threads. One or two were at least somewhat amusing. However, there are way too many and the complaints of users are increasing exponentially.

Glen, K9STH

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