Frivolous Traffic

[WM5L]

Well I guess ther is no need to "pratice" sending traffic. You new hams dont need to learn how to do something before you need to do it. Just wait until you really need to sent some traffic across the country or around the world. Then just hope you know how or where to get it done. Also dont have any fun or dont enjoy the hobby unless it is an actual emergency.

[KB5B]

It is a shame that one becomes hard and calloused. I remember when I received my ticket back in 1993 that I was really impressed when I got that call from a nearby ham operator with that message. Impressed enough to set up a packet station and even pass a few NTS traffic messages myself. It's good to have people to do these things, this may be the only way some get exposed to the system, so if you don't have time to listen to it, hit that knob that says "OFF". Which is better, to much traffic or non at all?

"LETS ALL PROMOTE OUR HOBBY"

KC5EGC Terry

[W5HTW]

Huh? #Let's see - it is called the Intercontinental Traffic Net. #Not the Intercontinental Priority Traffic Net. #Not the Intercontinental Emergency Net. #Not the Intercontinental "Only My Kinda Traffic" net. #

Actually the reverse has long been true, especially since the creation of the internet, and even more so since the ARRL invented the "Hinternet." # Most traffic nets cannot seem to drum up any traffic at all, and sit there with an hour of "W25AAA, No Traffic" check-ins, and close by counting all the times a station said "Hey, tell George I said howdy," as being a 'traffic.' # Traffic is given a precedence, and by far, the vast amount of traffic is Routine. #Not Priority, not Immediate, not Urgent, not "Right %$#@& Now" #and not "Sky falling - Duck" type of traffic. #

We need MORE routine traffic on the nets, to give these guys something to do besides saying "No traffic, and bye bye." # If Uncle Joe wants to send a ham radio message to Aunt Betty, we should be encouragining it. #Traffic nets exist for the passing of traffic - of all kinds that are permissable on ham radio. #

I agree partly - I don't like the (to use a Hinternet - My God - term) "cc" of "welcome to ham radio." # But it is actually better than no traffic at all. #But I recall - perhaps the term should be lament - the days passing when ham radio booths (often without ham gear present) were set up in shopping malls to solicit Mother's Day Greetings, Valentine's Day greetings, New Baby greetings and just "Hello there" greetings. #We set up booths and got hundreds of messages, every darned one of them routine, and they were passed to local hams on Radiogram forms, to send to various nets over the next day or so. #

The amateur radio traffic handling capability - and even the need for it - has nearly disappeared. #Everyone has his own internet/computer/cell phone and can do fine without ham radio. #That's just obsoletion by technology and not anyone's fault. #But we can hang onto the shreds remaining by making real use of teh traffic capabilities we DO still have, by handling routine traffic as practice for a possible time we hope doesn't come when we have to handle emergency traffic, following an earthquake, flood or the like.

Today's ham is more likely to put the traffic on the internet, which cuts out ham radio entirely. #In fact, even emergency traffic is frequently moved to the internet instead of ham radio. #An example of that is during the Seattle earthquake, though there was local VHF activity in the area, long haul traffic was passed via the web. #The SATERN (Salvation Army) radio net was on the air solely to refer hams with Health and Welfare traffic to the SATERN web site! #Now is that Hinternet or what? #The recent earthquake in Mexico cut out US hams entirely, turned them away, because they could handle their own problems, which is fine, but also because they could pass "long haul" on the web. #

Goodbye ham radio, hello Hinternet? #

No, thanks. #Let's keep the traffic nets doing something, not only for the practice but so they don't just fold up from the weight of the "NO TRAFFIC" check-ins.

73
Ed

[AD5CA]

Howdy,
As a sometimes NCS for the Texas Traffic Net here in Texas, I welcome any and all traffic.
If someone else is talking, I get a break!
Seriously, it gives everyone the opportunity to practice, and we all need it.
I know the messages you are referring to, and while they are certainly repetitive, many are destined for areas that don't receive or generate much traffic. This type of traffic gives a greater number of hams an intoduction to traffic handling in a non-emergency situation.
Take care,
Mark AD5CA

[W8XKW]

Of the book traffic I handle, the ones that receive the most reaction are the ones congratulating new hams and the ones reminding hams to renew their licenses. #Always there is thanks, and a smile. #Especially when the ham remarks that he forgot about having to renew! #Ten years is a long time.

Next in line are the 'real' personal messages to family members. #It is a real joy to deliver those.

All of us who handle NTS messages do it because we like to do it, and we need the practice. #If you can originate or copy a message in your sleep, an emergency will not get in the way of the communication task.

Once a month, NTS hams should go to an event or a location and set up to receive messages to be delivered FREE anywhere in the country (and a few others). #Neat stuff. #Never mind the $40-for-400-minutes folks. #They serve their purpose; so has/does/will NTS!

Enjoy!

Ray W8XKW

[k7unz]

Well, I just couldn't resist commenting on this one.....

Here we have a person who apparantly is part of the NTS, who believes he is in a better position to decide what is usefull traffic and what is "frivolous", then the person who sent it. #Since when did the relay stations begin to decide what deserves to be passed, and what is not deserving of being handled by the elite National Traffic System? # And in this day and age of instant world-wide communications, what makes the NTS feel it is in a position to turn down anything??

Yeah, I can sure see myself placing a message of "importance" into the NTS for delivery.....3 days later it may get where it's going! #Or it may be returned because someone screwed-up the address/phone during relay. No, I don't think so.....not when I can use internet, cell phone, "10-10-220", and even a CQ for a phone patch.

If the author is speaking on behalf of the NTS, then I think the time has arrived to re-evaluate the need for such a system on the amateur bands. #There are umpteen-thousand traffic nets meeting daily, who do nothing more than check-in, call roll, and check-out, and complain about QRM to their net, while taking up band space for no good reason other than to say hello to each other.

"Frivolous" traffic it may be, but that is not for you to decide. #Nor should a "traffic" net be complaining because it actually has traffic to handle. #I can remember when being a NTS station was something of an honour, and yes, even then they passed traffic concerning such things as "Aunt Minnie's dog had pups. #Three girls and one boy. All doing fine." #But they passed it, maybe with a lot of chuckles along the way, and looked for more. #I guess those days are over.

Don't worry sir, I will not overload you with my frivolous traffic....nor any other kind for that matter. #The very computer I use to generate this comment will pass anything I have of that nature, and if it is important, there is that thing called the telephone.

My apology to those of you in the NTS that remain dedicated to the concept of providing a service, keeping your skills sharp, and asking for nothing except more traffic.

And with that, I'm outta here...

73, de Jim/K7UNZ

[na4it]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I stand corrected.

[w6th]

I see no fault in the NTS. Let me say something very strange for you to remember for the book traffic:

# #I made brass pounder one time at Christmas time when I copied a book of 250 and not just 7 or 8. Every Christmas was a greetings from family members and just friends. I never broke the sending operator for a repeat. Not one single time. #Yes all of these messages were delivered right on time. Well worth the 70 minutes of solid copy, which by the way was CW.
# # I proved to one and all that I was a devoted traffic handler and a ham operator. #Wish many more can say that.

# # By the way to make a brass pounder league you must send, originate or receive a total of 500 messages for one month and that is not easy, especially of today.

# # Amateur radio was founded by the words of the American Radio Relay League and don't you forget it. #So grin and bare it as I hope NTS remains what it was and what it is today. #I find no fault in the NTS and neither should you.
# # # # # # # # # 73, W6th/BPL

[KG4OOA]

I don't know about our nets today. Most I check into have very little traffic. What I can comment on is the tactical training nets I ran in the Air Force. During exercises we carried traffic like we would in a real increase in alert or war. We did this and were very proficient because we practiced. It was dull until I found a frivolous way to make it interesting. We wrote ans sent clear text messages that were fun but also good practice. Here is an example... [/I]We cannot accept your report on redundant reports at this office because you failed to include the report on redundant reports in the report on redundant reports![I] They don't make much sense but were good traffic and they were fun. Why don't some of the nets try it. As individual hams we need to talk up messages and traffic with non-ham friends. Offer to send greetings to Uncle Fester or whoever thay want. some sucessful messages may get people asking us to do more for them.

[N0YR]

I've been active off and on with the State and Regional
nets since taking the ARRL Communications classes last year. I learned alot from listening first about the structure and discipline of the NTS then participating.
I don't usually generate much traffic, but I do deliver and
reply to originators requesting delivery info.
Yesterday, an elderly lady said she loved this service because the sender is only reached by radio.

One thought about Renewal notices: Check carefully
if possible before sending.
Many renewals often come back as SK.
The renewals are necessary for the information, but there is nothing worse than delivering a renewal to a SK family.
I don't know of any main database that carries the call's
of those who have passed, but info gathered from the
Renewal traffic is sure one way to find out besides the
monthly Amateur publications.
my 2 cents.
73 all
John S # now ABØXN

[WA9SVD]

I guess I missed something here. What was the original post or subject? Or was there none?

[kd5vez]

Original topic was the mention of there being 'frivolous' traffic being passed on traffic nets accross the nation. Such as "The weather is here, wish you were beautiful." or "Welcome to Ham Radio KD5VEZ!!!".

I just got my ticket on the 11th, and I'll admit, I was a little taken back by the original comment, which must have been withdrawn? My dad, N7RSR, was on nets all the time, and he told me the purpose was to keep up your skill at transmitting messages, in case of emergency or such. I'm new, so I know my opinion doesn't hold the weight of an operator of 40 years, but I think of traffic a lot like running. It's healthy. Doesn't matter how, where, or when. If you don't do it for a while, it seems kinda difficult when you start back up. At no point, however, does it become frivolous.

*Hops off the Soapbox*

73, KD5VEZ

[k8nqc]

Those who teach communications always point out the two components of process and content. Even though most days do not present the need for Amateur Radio to carry content of much significance, they do present the opportunity for Amateurs to practice their skills in handling important traffic if called upon to do so. Maybe my values are old fashioned, but I do see passing examinations as only one step to becomming a ham. Until an individual also develops and hones the skills to handle communications in a disciplined, reliable way and is able to perform functions that justify the Amateur Radio Service, they are a "ham" in name only.

[KC9BGY]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Hey fellas, I think all he was doing was making a tongue - in - cheek comment. It sure did stir everyone up!

But, everyone should get involved in some sort of ECOM.
ARES, RACES, MARS, SATERN. Might be your own family
that you help. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73 - Dean KC9BGY / NNN0AGW Indiana Navy Mars

[n0xu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa9svd @ Feb. 13 2003,23:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I guess I missed something here. What was the original post or subject? Or was there none?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm still trying to figure out what the original poster's point is. Is he complaining about frivolous messages? Is he concerned with the lack of new blood coming into the National Traffic System? Or was he making a tongue-in-cheek comment?

Wondering...

Drew N0XU

[KD7HGK]

N0YR, you have mail

Sincerely,


Jonathan A. Smith, KD7HGK

NTS TRAFFIC HANDELING IS PART OF AMEATUR RADIO NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF TAFFIC IT IS .ITS A GREAT LEARNING TOOL FOR OUR NEW HAMS ME MYSELF I ENJOY RECIEVING AND SENDING TRAFFIC ITS A LOT OF FUN WHEN YOU GET TO DELIVER THE MESSAGE I ENCOURAGE EVERY HAM TO SEND AT LEAST 1 PIECE OF TRAFFIC WHEN YOU CHECK INTO A TRAFFIC NET.EVERY ONE HAS SOMEONE THEY CAN SEND A PIECE OF TRAFFIC TO .LETS ALL GET INVOLVE AND BRING TTRAFFIC HANDLING BACK TO THE TARFFIC NETS
# # # # 73 DE W5RIP http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[na4it]

Yes I did delete my original post. As I said earlier, I STAND CORRECTED! End of story.

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (na4it @ Feb. 15 2003,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes I did delete my original post. As I said earlier, I STAND CORRECTED! End of story.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have long said the true sign of an intelligent person is the ability and willingness to change his/her mind when presented with new information. You did so, and I agree with you, the subject should be dropped. That makes you respected for having not only learned something, but admitting you learned it. Now if people will just get off your back, huh!!?? 73
Ed

[KG4ROL]

Hello there,

Look at this point follow HAMS, #We come from different
walks of life in this hobby. #Some of us do different things in this hobby. #If we want to get involved in NTS so do it, if not there are different options or other things do this hobby. #Yes, I see that we need type of knowledge of NTS or other groups as suggested. #If the new HAMS don't know about this groups or have little knowledge of these groups, please tell them or educate them a little about or invite them to come to these groups on radio or in person(ie ARES/RACES, ETC.) #Don't get mad at the person or people if they don't know about NTS (and again-other groups!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, as I got the feeling from the topic. #So, #let everybody know and how it works(NTS) before get in arms about something.

73,

Chris, KG4ROL
Oviedo, Fl.

[WA9SVD]

Just my $0.02, but my understanding is that the purpose of the NTS is to handle messages. The only way to do that is to practice, to become familiar with the system, it's limitations, and it's strengths. That means "practice" traffic is often going to be "unnecessary, mundane, and uninteresting." When a real message has to be handled is not the time to try to figure out how the system works (or doesn't.) Again, IMHO.

[kg6ath]

I remind people, the best thing you can do to prepare for an emergency is to sign into a traffic net once every 2 weeks. Im shocked how many RACES people cant handle message traffic.

I KNOW how to handle traffic and Im STILL humbled when i sign in.
I live in quake country. When we get the big one, Im gonna get swamped
and Im going to have a bunch of newbies who have never handled a message in their lives.

Lets call for mandatory traffic duty once or twice a month to keep your RACES certification.

[N3LJB]

WHOAH!!

Here in the southern PA region, there is TONS of traffic!!

I participate in a traffic net every monday, wednesday and friday, and even on 2 meters, there is tons of traffic. My club offers a certificate that has endorsements for each month. You have to send at least one piece per month on this net.

If you are in the Paoli/King of Prussia/Philadelphia Area on a Monday, Wednesday, or Friday night at 830 PM local time, tune into 147.060 or 145.130 (pl 131.8) for our traffic nets.

73
Leland N3LJB
ORS, EPA Section
10-X 73688
EPA-QRP 109
n3ljb@comcast.net

[kb7ntl]

Always enjoyed handling traffic.

Miss having a local training net nearby.

Guess that is why joining MARS made sense (to me).

Some of us like operating with structure.

To each their own.

Have fun, however you choose, within reason...

73, Kevin

[W1CAR]

What in the hell is this guy talking about?

I am an NCS for one of the best local traffic nets in the country; the Northern Virginia Traffic Net ( www.nvtn.org ) We meet nightly at 7:30pm local time and average 25-30 regular check-ins each night. We usually have a few pieces of traffic to pass; including the net report which is passed as formal written traffic as well. We have outlets to the Virginia Side Band Net, Virginia Late Net, 3rd Region, Eastern, and many others. I love passing traffic, and the enthusiasm is shared with all our check-ins; helping the new hams out there get a taste for it. And, for the most part; they do.

We are a directed net, and a training net. We keep things professional, but we are also there to help new traffic handlers learn the trade. Even when there isn't any traffic to pass, we have a great time with an excellent group of people sharing their lives during the section for comments. Makes you feel good to know that no matter what happens; emergency or anything else for that matter, the NVTN will still meet at 7:30.

Traffic handling hasn't gone to pot just because one person has a bad outlook on it and decides to post his poor attitude here.

[WB9YBM]

If you don't like what you hear on the radio (or see on PACKET), there's always that infamous "OFF" switch on your radio--and given the amount of whiners out there, it is a switch that is WAY under utilized. For the rest of us, bring on the traffic--test messages are okay. After all, you never know what they might lead to: new friendships (GASP!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, the chance to Elmer a new-commer (no harm in that, either), or etc.

[w9uss]

Could these replys have been sent by NTS to WM5L ?
Just thought it might have given a newby a little practice.

or maybe sum were?
73 Bob kb7sik ST.Maries,ID

[WM5L]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb7sik @ Feb. 19 2003,01http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Could these replys have been sent by NTS to WM5L ?
Just thought it might have given a newby a little practice.

or maybe sum were?
73 Bob kb7sik ST.Maries,ID[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
NO No The orignal post is gone. NA4IT the authur pulled it because of all the "heat". I just responded to it

[w9uss]

SORRY JIM. It was late.
Please disregard my previos reply,
Bob KB7SIK [B]

[kd5jxu]

grammer and spell check may make some sense ;
I agree that traffic practice is down, thanks to cell phones and internet. I would like to see some one start a peice of traffic on 146.520 on one coast and send it across the USA. Using VHF simplex would help some of the new hams handle traffic. It would be fun to have a 146.520 fm traffic net once a week.
Example. 1 peice of traffic from Conn. destinated to a station in Cal.and one to Tx. at a given time the message would be relayed through the ranks of Hams. to it's final destination.
Any one interested in this project contact kd5jxu@arrl.net. Here in North East Oklahoma we have a weekly vhf simplex net on 146.520 fm. More details see neosimplex.com

[n8qvt]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg6ath @ Feb. 16 2003,01http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">>Lets call for mandatory traffic duty once or twice a >month to keep your RACES certification.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Here in the Dallas area, some RACES groups require members to send 2 messages/year via the NTS.

Good practice I say!

73. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

NTS - obsolete? Nope, just check them out when a regional (or like the September 11th 2001 attacks occured) disaster occurs. LOTS of health and welfare (H&W) which is VERY IMPORTANT to the person sending/receiving it but is not important to be placed on the official/emergency traffic tactical nets.

Those who have claimed (and still claim) that NTS is 'dead', 'obsolete', 'out of date', and 'unneeded' usually operate from three premises - all wrong.

First, the Internet, cellphones, and wired/wireless networks will make the NTS unnecessary. FALSE! All these networks DEPEND on nodes using electronics which and these are in locations that are finite, fixed, and subject to overload, failure, and degradation due to envrionmental and human factors reasons.

Second, EMAIL and the instantaneous method of 'right now' information transfer make the NTS unnecessary. FALSE! While these networks are useful, necessary,and normally do the job well (evidence the fact that I can post here, right now, quickly and effectively) the first example still applies.

Third, learning the NTS net operating formats, the standardized ARRL message format, and other such things are boring, seem to be irrelevant, and don't appear to add value to what we do. FALSE! The thing that NTS nets, learning the formal message format so you can DO IT when you REALLY need to with accuracy and learning the proper operating procedures, TEACH YOU is HOW to do it when the chips are down and traffic has to get through. In the real thing (i.e. Sept 11th 2001) people were pressured, emotional, under stress, and the adrenaline was running higher than most were even aware of.

Here is the foundation... Professionals in ANY discipline - Military, law enforcement, health, safety, etc. ALL train.. train.. and train again. They practice.. over and over and over so the routine becomes automatic.. the exceptional becomes manageable and the unknown becomes less of a fearful item to deal with.

Hams 'train' on NTS nets.. practice passing routine and sometimes 'frivilous' traffic (frivilous to you but not to the originator!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and practice doing what they do so when the real thing happens.. they can drop back into the trained mode and get it done.

Folks who participate with ARES/RACES and the other emergency preparation communicatoins programs learn to not only manage themselves during the exceptional times and they get exposed to the past examples of the 'unknown' so they can gather some experience so when THEIR UNKNOWN happens, they have a toolkit to draw from to help get it done.



WITHOUT the training of HOW to do it.. net ops, message handling, formatting, operationg procedures, these folks fumbled, made errors, and took far longer to get the job done when the chips were down. Those who were trained, when the moments came, were able to drop into their trained mode and use the learned skills to get the job done. That's why professionals train to become able to do their jobs under the stress of real operations.

THAT'S why NTS, passing traffic, and doing the 'boring, unrewarding, and sometimes DULL' stuff we do is important.

BTw.. on traffic.. the BEDROCK RULE FOR ALL TRAFFIC HANDLERS.... Unless there is a valid reason (illegal, coded, or improper according to the rules) A RELAY STATION MAY NOT, SHOULD NOT, AND MUST NOT, modify, change, or decide the value of the traffic they have been given. Either refuse to accept it OR accept it and get it delivered.

Plus.. you DON'T change the text unless the originator has authorized you to do so. (I'm NOT talking about a minor administrative change where you insert an 'X' in place of a period or the word 'QUERY' in place of a question mark.)

73
Chuck K3FT


REmember.. a willing and enthusiastic YET UNTRAINED volutneer will screwup your network and inhibit your ability to do your job well.