GMRS More Powerful than Ham?

[kd7nqb]

Recently I was looking a purchasing a new FRS radio for use in my scout Troop, which at this time does not have enough licensed Hams for good comunication when we are in many grouos. I though about buying one of these new FRS/GMRS radios to have then coverd all the major types of radio (HAM,CB,FRS,GMRS) I understood that GMRS required a license so I went to the Fcc website and found that the license simply was a matter of sending the FCC a form and a check. But I then realized that you legally must be 18 to obtain a GMRS license. I find this disgraceful since by simply taking a test I can recive my HAM license but I need to be 18 to get a GMRS license with only a 5 mile range at best. This makes no sense to me but that is the goverment for you. I then e-mailed the FCC asking if there was a loophole in the law for people who are under 18 and hold a valid Amature Radio License. The only reply I got back was a link to the GMRS rules and regulations. I took this a no. I find it wrong and would like to know if anyone else shares my concern.
73's KD7NQB

[n2ojq]

As far as I know, you can obtain a GMRS license, and it covers all members of your family regardless of age. While this will cover your children, the other scouts may have a problem. The reality of the situation is very few people that buy the GMRS radios ever get licensed, and it will soon go the way of CB as there is no enforcement (just my opinion). Good luck-
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

All you need is the new MURS 2 watt vhf radios . They're license free and anyone of any age can use them for practically anything, including adding gain antennas. Here's a link for more info.

http://www.provide.net/~prsg/murs_faq.htm

This is essentially the old 150 Mhz business band restructured as license free CB for family,personal or business use. You are allowed 2 watts out at the antenna terminals as opposed to the FRS radios that only allow 1/2 watt ERP from the antenna itself.
They work VERY well and can be found at your local radio shack.

[n9kpn]

I have FRS radios for communicating with my family as I am the only Amateur in my family. #Even my mom and dad can use these, they are so simple. #Works great between cars or whatever. #Word of warning to those thinking about getting a pair (or more) of these. #Spend the extra money to get the kits with the rechargable NiMH batteries and chargers. #It is well worth it.

Something I saw yesterday almost convinced me to go GMRS. #A GPS/GMRS in one unit for $85.50 brand new. #This is cheaper than just a GPS alone! #And not from some goofy obscure web site but an actual big chain "brick and mortar" store. #(I don't want to advertise but these are the guys with the big yellow with black writing price tag as a mascot.) #

{RANT MODE ON} HINT TO THE HAM RADIO MANUFACTURERS: #Start making HTs with GPS and APRS built in! #Think about including GPS in General Aviation handhelds. And sell them for a decent price.{RANT MODE OFF}

But I would think the Scouts would fall under the "Guardian" rule; you ARE acting as a parent when they are under your care. #Much as if you were acting as the control operator of your HF or 2 meter station allowing the kids to operate.

There are very few people getting the license with the GMRS radios. #But little matter; the only time I hear chatter on the FRS/GMRS is at ham fests, large events, or in tall buildings. #Mostly it is kids playing. #I wish I had these when I was a kid; those toy walkie talkies sucked.

New topic; has anyone taken a FRS flying with them? #I have taken my 2M/440MHz HT flying and can make moderate distance (considering I am operating from inside a metal can). #Any contacts?

I have been looking for the MURS to become a real service for several years but it kept getting blocked. #It is good to see that it finally went through. #This is a good service to use, based on the 2 watt power.

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n9kpn @ Feb. 13 2003,17:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.....the only time I hear chatter on the FRS/GMRS is at ham fests, large events, or in tall buildings. Mostly it is kids playing. I wish I had these when I was a kid; those toy walkie talkies sucked.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Boy, you can say that again <GRIN> I remember looking at my friend two houses down talking into one of our 49Mhz walkie talkies and not being able to hear him. FM and no squelch circuit. Yea, they sucked.

FRS and GMRS will not be much different unless you have access to a repeater. #FRS is basically UHF CB. #It will give you 14 channels, a lot of swearing, and about .5 to 2 miles, depending upon terrain. #If you buy a bunch of $200 radios and get GMRS licenses for each "family," then you will get wide range if you are in range of a repeater. #It is all line of sight whether you use GMRS, FRS, or MURS. #When using simplex, there is not much difference in range between 0.5 and 5 watts with UHF.

Your height above the average terrain is what's important. #If you can't hear the rest of the group, climb a hill or a tree http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

VHF will go slightly further, so MURS might be better. #How much money will you pay for an extra 100 yards? #Go with the $20 each FRS radios.

Amateur radio and GMRS are not related at all. GMRS is based on you PAYING for a license. Amateur Radio is based on you EARNING a license. Feel good about earning your license and don't worry about the GMRS license until you think you really need it.

[K8YS]

FRS would be perfect for your scout troop, inexpensive enough that when it falls in the creek or gets lost, no great loss.
MURS is OK, but there are a herd of users, everyone from the highway construction crews to the local McDonalds Drive Thru use the same group of frequenies, the up-side is that MURS is fair game to just about any mode... yes, you can use APRS on MURS and NOT on GMRS/FRS.

GMRS is/was a BUSINESS BAND (FCC pt95) and you must be 18 or older to get a license, and YES, when the FCC actually licensed CB, you must be 18 to get a CB license... GMRS is Class A CB, the same rules apply.

Amateur Radio (please note the spelling) is not limited to age limits because you are supposed to present proof that you know what you are doing - thats why you take a test. Any village idiot can play on CB <flame on, it's cold out and I need the heat>.

Sounds like a project is brewing here, since you have too few troup members that have a Amateur license, why don't you spend 1 hour per meeting to get the troup licensed. If you start now, you could have enough licensed members by fall, and you could all do the current radio and electronic merit badges.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n8ary @ Feb. 14 2003,18:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FRS and GMRS will not be much different unless you have access to a repeater. #FRS is basically UHF CB. #It will give you 14 channels, a lot of swearing, and about .5 to 2 miles, depending upon terrain. #If you buy a bunch of $200 radios and get GMRS licenses for each "family," then you will get wide range if you are in range of a repeater. #It is all line of sight whether you use GMRS, FRS, or MURS. #When using simplex, there is not much difference in range between 0.5 and 5 watts with UHF.

Your height above the average terrain is what's important. #If you can't hear the rest of the group, climb a hill or a tree http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

VHF will go slightly further, so MURS might be better. #How much money will you pay for an extra 100 yards? #Go with the $20 each FRS radios.

Amateur radio and GMRS are not related at all. #GMRS is based on you PAYING for a license. #Amateur Radio is based on you EARNING a license. #Feel good about earning your license and don't worry about the GMRS license until you think you really need it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FRS would be perfect for your scout troop, inexpensive enough that when it falls in the creek or gets lost, no great loss.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That's exactly what I mean! #Don't waste 70% more money for an extra 100 yards. #The only time MURS will be a HUGE advantage is while mobile in a vehicle and while using an external antenna.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
New topic; has anyone taken a FRS flying with them? I have taken my 2M/440MHz HT flying and can make moderate distance (considering I am operating from inside a metal can). Any contacts?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I took one up while parasailing- I could hear about 20 people at once.

[KB9YKY]

Whatever radio service you decide to use for the little scout outings....Be sure to instruct all of those that will be using the little radios in proper radio operation and procedures. Immediately take the radios away from them if they try to wire so-called "power mics" to the little radios or if one of them starts the "break-go-break, 10-4" crap!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whatever radio service you decide to use for the little scout outings....Be sure to instruct all of those that will be using the little radios in proper radio operation and procedures. Immediately take the radios away from them if they try to wire so-called "power mics" to the little radios or if one of them starts the "break-go-break, 10-4" crap![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

They are just HT's and you can't "wire a power-mic to them." You are lucky to even get a speaker-mic jack on them. It's OK to have fun on the FRS band, but just remember there are others who might be listening or using the frequency. The key is to listen before you talk. A 10-4 here and there won't hurt anyone. I think wireless communication of ANY type is much better than nothing at all.

[kd7nqb]

Here is a slightly off topic response that migh promote some discussion. I was talking to K9OX a while back about finding a manufature to make a SUPER RADIO for those of us who carry 3 different radios on our belts. It would encompass at least FRS and 2m maybe 440 and hopefully cb. Wait dont go crazy yet. In order to unlock the ham portion of the transmitting ability, you would need to send a copy of you FCC Ham license to the maker along with a serial number for the radio and they would then send you a unique code for that one unit only to unlock the HAM transmitting ability this eliminates non licensed operators. How about that one.

[n6yvy]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Dear sir you really should reread your posts. Before you post.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whatever radio service you decide to use for the little scout outings....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You sound like your speaking to 3 and 4 year olds. When you use words like LITTLE SCOUT OUTINGS!!
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Immediately take the radios away from them if they try to wire so-called "power mics" to the little radios [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Give me a break! If they’re not interested in an amateur license. What makes you think their going to want to spend any money on a mic for a radio that may not even be theirs?

Now as for the 10 code while I do not like it I know many that slip and use it only because they have to use it their jobs so it become 2nd nature to them.
So have a good day keep a tight fist and good DXING to ya.
73 Bob N6YVY #
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[CODE]

[N6HBJ]

It sounds like you might be trying to cover TOO MUCH GROUND with these kids by trying to teach them about every single radio service that exists at one time. You are making it too difficult. If you want to teach them about HAM radio, then simply teach them about HAM radio and stop trying to make them a walking encyclopedia of every radio service avaliable. Give em a break or they might LOSE INTEREST!
#The FCC doesn't allow license on GMRS to under 18 year olds probably because they don't want a bunch of kids/teenagers buying these radios and goofing around on them like most any kid would do.
#As far as HAM is concerned, that teenager/kid who is liscensed there EARNED his liscense with hard work, so it is much less likely that he would be goofing off.
If you need a radio for the scouts to use on outings, simply get cheap FRS radios which require no liscense and will work fine for short distances.
73 MIKE

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 15 2003,06:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whatever radio service you decide to use for the little scout outings....Be sure to instruct all of those that will be using the little radios in proper radio operation and procedures. Immediately take the radios away from them if they try to wire so-called "power mics" to the little radios or if one of them starts the "break-go-break, 10-4" crap![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KB9YKY, you are the classic crank! A textbook example. You pre-suppose #problems that aren't happening and then demand something be done about it. Your post reads like that of a nasty condescending authoritarian control freak. Let the kids have their fun, if they want to say 10-4 or use 10 codes or any other esoteric codes that's ok. It is proper radio operation if it conveys what they want to say and is clearly understood by themselves. Government and law enforcement use 10 codes and Nasa uses roger beeps to signal tend of transmission. Those are proper radio operating procedures but you won't here it on the ham bands because it doesn't fit our paradigm.
Don't be such a killjoy.

P.S. It's ok to color outside of the lines, kids. - KE6PKJ

LoLoL I'm a 13 yr. old and I remember using lil 40 mgh radios.....and two days later I would get my dad's screwdriver set and ruien them.....Let the kid's experiment, and if they have fun with communication then teach them about HaM radio.....if not then let um be........ P.S. You may want to do this, have the kid hams be in groups with the other kids that are not hams......someone pick this up

[B][U]PLEASE EXCUSE MY SPEELING! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KB9YKY]

Retent: The 10 code foolishness was one of the first signs of the failure from the start of the 27mhz "cb" band, right along with the "break-go-break" crap. No sense in starting such silly nonsense on the new FRS and MURS "cb" bands/services. History does and will repeat itself!

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 15 2003,06:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Retent: The 10 code foolishness was one of the first signs of the failure from the start of the 27mhz "cb" band, right along with the "break-go-break" crap. No sense in starting such silly nonsense on the new FRS and MURS "cb" bands/services. History does and will repeat itself![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
&lt;facetious&gt;
Oh my goodness! I always thought the CB band fell into chaos because people were allowed to communicate in a clandestine manner after the license was dropped. If what you say is true, the police and fire department comms all across this country are going to hell in a handbasket. Maybe we should start some legislation to get the police, fire and others that are currently using 10 codes to stop.

Please Joseph, tell us what other bad habits should be dropped besides 10 codes and "break-go-break". What about "Roger Wilco" or "Over and Out"? Here in the south alot of them use "Signal" codes. Are those evil as well?

To get back on topic, we just can't let these Boyscouts have FRS radios to have fun on as if they were toys! That would be totaly irresponsible!
&lt;/facetious&gt;

[KE6PKJ]

KB9YKY, you can't really believe what your saying? Your just trying to pull our leg right? Otherwise your posts read like an overblown reaction. FRS, GMRS, MURS and CB are public use bands with little or no qualifications to use them. This is limited space that is set aside for the use of all.
Just like public parks, you have to tolerate the activities of others even if you might not like the way they play or what they say. There is no #correct way to use the "park". What if I don't like the way kids are running around and screaming, or the incessant chimings from the ice cream truck? Maybe I want to have a quiet picnic and a football game or scout jamboree starts up. What if I can't use the parking lot because it's too full? I either learn to live with it or join the private country club where there's qualifications and costs. Or in some cases be miserable and mean spirited if I've never learned coping skills.

Live and let live.

[mackinac]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd7nqb @ Feb. 09 2003,08:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I find it wrong and would like to know if anyone else shares my concern.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Although you disagree with the regulations, you don't give much argument to support it. The Amateur and GMRS services have different purposes, so I would expect the rules to be relevant to the purpose of each service. Comparing requirements for GMRS to ARS is not very relevant.

I was in the scouts many years ago (before FRS). Amateur radio is good for teaching skills which, I think, is one of the purposes of scouting, but only a few scouts are likely to be interested in that particular skill. For more general communications, I think FRS would be the first thing to try.

How many scouts have cell phones these days?

[n6yvy]

Well Joseph (KB9YKY) what next I’ve gone back and read all of your posts 394 to be exact. You seem to be a very angry person. Your hatred for the 10 codes and C.B. is unbelievable. The 10 codes is much like our Q codes. You always have a smart remark for everything!! And it seems like you enjoy putting a person down! #So maybe you’ve been watching to many TV show’s about trucker’s and C.B… Many of today’s hams came from the C.B.
If you heard a 10 code on your local repeater would put that person not even knowing them maybe they’re a (local county Mounties) oh I mean police officer and just slipped and used the 10 code!!.

Maybe you should quietly sell all of your equipment let you license expire and try the C.B. you may find they’re not BREAKER BREAKER 19er’s or 10-4 goodies.

73 or is it73’s.
Bob N6YVY

[kb1jhu]

Hello all, I have been involved in Scouting for most of my life. Amateur radio has also been a major part of my life, my father (WA1YCX, G4JRW) has been an operator since before he came to the US from England. I have grown up going to hamfests and around radios. Working with our Scout troop, we worked the Jamboree on the Air numerous times.

My troop used FRS radios for communication while on hikes, canoeing and on road trips. They are great to use with the kids because there is no license requirement and no need to identify your station. Operating them is easy, even for the young scouts. I feel that they are a great way to get kids interested in radio communications. You can build them up to an interest in Amateur Radio, let them play with the FRS units and teach them about operating procedures and on-the-air ethics and FCC rules. Then you can show them your amateur gear and show them how you can communicate around the world. Do the electronics and radio merit badges with them and get them studying for an Amateur license.

If my troop hadn't dissolved, I would probably be working with them right now to stir up some interest in radio. Now that I think of it, I'll probably work with another troop this summer when I get home from school.

- Scott (KB1JHU), Eagle Scout

[KB9YKY]

ke4pjw, what you "always thought" is incorrect. From the very start of the 27mhz "cb" service in 1958, even on the "cb" channels reserved solely for intra-station only usage, legitimate users were plagued by illegal hobbiests yelling "break-break!" at them. Although the higher frequencies used for GMRS, MURS, and FRS today greatly reduces the range that such harmful interference comes from...the legitimate users on these bands are also being plagued by the illegal hobbiests.

[n6yvy]

Kb9yky YOUr not only angry but you also seem to quite hateful!
For someone thats been licensed less than 2 years you act like one of O.F.s! On H.F.
So someone got up and said to himself lets make a 10 code just to sound silly and foolish. Thats what your saying?
Give me a break not breaker breaker!

So from fruity Californee
73 Bob N6YVY

[KB9YKY]

Bobby, you need to check your math. I have been licensed for more than 2 years. My license was granted the same year yours was. Your carrying on about things said as being "hateful" makes you sound like a lib. Yes, the "cb" 10-codes and yelling "break-go-break!" are just for sounding foolish and silly...as are the "cb" reverberators, roger beeps, so-called "power mics", and the many other noise makers used by you "cb"ers. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[aa6mh]

Joseph, KB9YKY, writes:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 17 2003,06:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">N6YVY, in fruity Californee, "our" so-called Q codes are nothing like the "cb" 10-codes. The Q-"codes" are for brevity when using telegraphy. The "cb" 10-codes are just to sound foolish and silly.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, here I am, another station from "fruity Californee" checking in on the topic.

Joseph's contention is ludicrous. #It seems obvious to me that "10-4" is considerably more brief than "your transmission received and understood." #Similarly "10-9" for "please repeat your previous transmission," "10-2" for "Your signal quality is adequate for communication," and so on. #I know many hams who contend that spoken Q-signals (not Q-codes, Joseph, Q-signals) are easily as "foolish and silly" as 10-codes, and some who contend that 10-codes, properly used, make considerably more sense and are much easier to understand in spoken transmissions than Q-signals.

While there are some 10 codes which are meant to be funny and are reportedly used on CB for that purpose (I haven't been on CB in quite a while) - isn't it supposed to be fun? #The CBers are engaging in a hobby, and while it is not as technically oriented and service oriented as Amateur Radio, it's something that one gets ENJOYMENT out of. #I've had many QSOs which I'm sure would have sounded foolish and silly to a third party; I believe that those hams who haven't - and, from his posts, Joseph strikes me as one of these - just don't understand the entirety of what ham radio is all about.

10 codes (and other similar numeric codes) are designed for the same purpose as Q-signals, but with a much more serious reason: lives depend upon the speedy and proper interpretation of these codes every single day. #Q-signals are, as Joseph pointed out, simply for brevity - and when compared to the protection of lives and property, which of these purposes is more "foolish and silly" to you?

[While I did have a "CB phase" in my life when a teenager, I have considerable background in public safety radio (which is still ongoing, for those of you who recognize my call and have read some of my other posts here).]

[kg4rpe]

kb9yky

I believe the 10 - codes which the cber's use comes from same source of the 10 - codes which our law enforcement and emergency services use. My wife and I both worked for several years as a dispatcher/emt at a good size ambulance service. 10 - codes became a common part of our conversation both on and off the radio. It was a lot easier and quicker to tell some one to 10-25 then to say disregard the last transimision. I also knew that the crew in the ambulance understood what I was saying when I said it.

I am not in favor of use of 10 codes on the ham bands but I do have to catch myself every so often when talking on the radio or I will revert back to my old ways. I am glad that I do not have someone like you living in my area who would not understand when such a mistake is made.

Old habits are hard to break and some do not want to be forgotten.

73
kg4rpe Tim

[KB9YKY]

AA6MH, no the so-called "cb" is not supposed to be "fun". It was meant to be a tool to use to communicate information for personal and business use. It was never meant to be a hobby. Illegal hobby usage is what made that service totally useless to legitimate users. As for the former "dispatcher" that uses silly 10-codes in general conversation...anyone hearing such nonsense will think that you are some sort of cop wanna-be/groupie or just a plain nitwit. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K8YS]

As I tell all my student, speak to others as you would on the telephone... Do you say "QRZ'ed" when you answer the phone? How about "10-4" when you really mean "OK"??

Time for me to QRT as I have just destinated for an 807. Seven three to ya.

Sounds really stupid in print, imagine what it sounds like to scanner listeners.

[WA9SVD]

It seems to me that this forum has gotten way off subject, what with name calling, etc.
The originator was wondering about radios for his Scout troop.
To that point, I'd definitely recommend FRS radios for the scouts, and the Scout Master(s) can get GMRS/FRS combination radios. As was mentioned earlier, the FRS radios are quite inexpensive, (probably less than the flashlight the scouts carry) and if lost or damaged, easily replaced withhout a big dent in the wallet.

You can get an FRS radio free at Office Max this week, and a pair of GMRS/FRS combo radios for $9.99 at Best Buy. (That's after rebates, of course...) Other stores have similar deals if you pay attention to the advertisements.

And good luck to the scouts.

[KB9YKY]

No sense in getting the combination GMRS/FRS radios. The kid that started this forum is not old enough to get a GMRS license. The little FRS radios would be more than adequate for his perceived need. Actually if he is that scared of getting lost, they could all just hold hands. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 16 2003,07:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ke4pjw, what you "always thought" is incorrect. From the very start of the 27mhz "cb" service in 1958, even on the "cb" channels reserved solely for intra-station only usage, legitimate users were plagued by illegal hobbiests yelling "break-break!" at them. Although the higher frequencies used for GMRS, MURS, and FRS today greatly reduces the range that such harmful interference comes from...the legitimate users on these bands are also being plagued by the illegal hobbiests.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sir, you are clearly delusional.

While yes under the old rules it states "A Citizens radio station shall not be used for engaging in radio communications as a hobby or diversion, i.e., operating the radio station as an activity in and of itself"(Subpart D 95.83 (a) (1) Jan 1972), it was perfectly legal to use 10 codes and "Break" (Subpart D 95.83 (a) (16) Jan 1972) so long as those "codes" were kept with station records.

There is no such hobby or "10 code" prohibition now on CB, FRS or GMRS.

[KB9YKY]

Wrong, kiddo. Nowhere in the rules for "cb", FRS, Murs, or GMRS does it say that those services are for hobby use. The rules do state the purpose of those services...being personal and business communications. The only service that is for hobby type use is tha Amateur Radio Service and some Part 15 devices. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 17 2003,13:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No sense in getting the combination GMRS/FRS radios. The kid that started this forum is not old enough to get a GMRS license. The little FRS radios would be more than adequate for his perceived need. Actually if he is that scared of getting lost, they could all just hold hands. :D[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It seems I specifically stated FRS for the scouts, GMRS/FRS combo for the Scoutmasters, who I presume are over the age of 18. (Silly me; I'm going on 30+ year old memories)

Specifically, this would allow the scouts to operate as they wish/need, but would allow the Scoutmasters the additional ability to coordinate with the leaders from other groups, etc. I can't see a single scout troop being so fragmented that they are are not within FRS range. certainly NOT without an adult leader (with a GMRS) with each sub group. But then again, I'm basing this on experience in scouting a long time ago... Your mileage may vary.

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 16 2003,17:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wrong, kiddo. Nowhere in the rules for "cb", FRS, Murs, or GMRS does it say that those services are for hobby use. The rules do state the purpose of those services...being personal and business communications. The only service that is for hobby type use is tha Amateur Radio Service and some Part 15 devices. :D[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Use of Part 95 radio services as a hobby used to be specifically prohibited. That has changed. Go read the rules (http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_01/47cfr95_01.html). Deal with it.

[WA9SVD]

I suppose it depends upon your (FCC's) definition of "hobby" and "personal communication," and there seems there could be a lot of overlap. Would the scout's use of FRS be considered "hobby" or personal communication? Would scoutmasters using GMRS to coordinate meeting places, rendezvous points, or pickup points be considered "hobby" use?

Where does one draw the line? (If indeed it should be drawn.) If the "service" is unlicensed, it seems the FCC doesn't want to be bothered, or cares about it's use. As unfortunate as that may be, that's the way it is.

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa9svd @ Feb. 16 2003,18:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I suppose it depends upon your (FCC's) definition of "hobby" and "personal communication," and there seems there could be a lot of overlap. Would the scout's use of FRS be considered "hobby" or personal communication? Would scoutmasters using GMRS to coordinate meeting places, rendezvous points, or pickup points be considered "hobby" use?

Where does one draw the line? (If indeed it should be drawn.) If the "service" is unlicensed, it seems the FCC doesn't want to be bothered, or cares about it's use. As unfortunate as that may be, that's the way it is.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From the way I have read the rules, I would suspect that the FCC does not want to be in the business of policing radio checks, signal reports and other such trivial communications. Some of the old examples of prohibited communications were "Just calling to see if you can hear me. I'm at Main and Broadway." and "I'm just checking to see who is on the air.". You couldn't do that back in the day on CB. Other than that, the list of prohibited communications is pretty much the same.

[K8YS]

PJW is correct, the FCC, in defiance of INTERNATIONAL TREATY, made citizens band a HOBBY when they deregulated it and removed licensing requirments. It is a hobby service below 30 MHz that does not require uses to prove Morse Code knowledge.

[WA9SVD]

I have no desire to comment on "CB" and hobby. That subject is moot and a lost cause.

But the FRS is meant to be (local) communication "for the rest of them." (Meaning, not the Amateur Operators.) But it also IS for the rest of them. (And the definition of "hobby" may be interpreted in MANY ways!) It IS meant for the general public, for whatever use they wish, within the limitations of the radios. No license, no exam, no knowledge of the technology. And no apologies.
The FRS is meant for easy, local communication. Nothing more, nothing less. If it will spur interest in Amateur Radio, so much the better!
Let's not discourage potential Amateur Operators.

[KB9YKY]

Hobby usage is using it as an activity in itself or as a divulsion. The little scouts using it is not an activity in itself. Other examples of personal communications would be, for example....a wife calling her husband on his way home from work to have him pick up the kids or aloaf of bread...or a motorist calling for directions. When the FCC shortened, condensed, and simplified the language in the rules, they did so hoping that the dumbed down America (generation X) would be able to read and comprehend the simplified rules. Hobby use still is not legal, nor within the scope and purpose of any of the "cb" type services.

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 17 2003,01:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hobby usage is using it as an activity in itself or as a divulsion. The little scouts using it is not an activity in itself. Other examples of personal communications would be, for example....a wife calling her husband on his way home from work to have him pick up the kids or aloaf of bread...or a motorist calling for directions. When the FCC shortened, condensed, and simplified the language in the rules, they did so hoping that the dumbed down America (generation X) would be able to read and comprehend the simplified rules. Hobby use still is not legal, nor within the scope and purpose of any of the "cb" type services.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, hobby use is legal. If I want to go mountain topping with my FRS radio and QSL the people that I spoke with, it is perfectly legal. Until you can come up with some evidence that I am wrong, please quit thumping your chest and making baseless assertions. It's the 21st century now, not 1976.

[aa6mh]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Feb. 17 2003,10:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AA6MH, no the so-called "cb" is not supposed to be "fun". It was meant to be a tool to use to communicate information for personal and business use. It was never meant to be a hobby. Illegal hobby usage is what made that service totally useless to legitimate users.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>Joseph, you're living in the past. #I hope you're having fun there.

What the rules say is "You may use your CB station to transmit two-way plain language communications ... about ... your personal or business activities or those of members of your immediate family living in your household...". #What's amusing is that "ten codes" are specifically mentioned as being sanctioned by the FCC (as well as other "operating signals"). #I believe that "communications about my personal activities" comes close enough to the definition of "hobby use" that it's close enough.

Regardless of the initial intentions for CB (which was ill-conceived to begin with - they took our cross-country band and gave it to a service with a 250Km legal radius - STUPID), it's now essentially an unregulated hobby band. #At least it serves a purpose, drawing off those who would stay there, and sometimes encouraging a few to jump to Amateur Radio.

But, as someone else pointed out, this thread is for a recommendation for Scout radios, and FRS sounds like the best option to me as well.

This Thread has been closed and certain inappropriate postings removed. Please remember that QRZ members range in the age of 12 years old to 100+. It is a sad state of affairs when a posting started about Boy Scouts becomes a name calling match between ADULTS.

QRZ EDITOR