YAN (yet another noob)

[KC2UYZ]

I've been studying for the Tech class and can pass the online preps 100% of the time. The General is still a work in progress, but I'll have my Tech license soon. Question now is what radio? My eye likes the IC-746/756 flavors and I've been told the Pro has DSP which is a well liked feature. So, while I could spend a lot less, I'm not the type to buy a budget anything when it comes to electronics. I'd rather have the features and grow into the radio. Aside from the models I listed, assuming they're a good choice, what do you folks like in the $600-$1200 new or used range? I'd like to be able to take the rig camping for some fun with the kids as well, so I assume I should stay with a radio that uses a external power supply?

Thanks in advance.

[KA2P]

The 746 series would be a good choice until you figure out exactly what segment of the hobby you find most interesting.

[KC2UYZ]

The 746 series would be a good choice until you figure out exactly what segment of the hobby you find most interesting.

As I don't really understand what you mean by "segment", could you explain a little?

Thanks very much

[VK7GZ]

FT-897D might be worth looking at too, if you want to operate portable from a campsite. It has space internally for batteries that allow 20W max.

[KC2UYZ]

FT-897D might be worth looking at too, if you want to operate portable from a campsite. It has space internally for batteries that allow 20W max.

Thanks, I'll take a look at that one. What do you lose when going with a more portable unit like the 897 over something like the 746?

We usually have electric at the site, but I can think of a few sites where we'd take the truck up on a hill and try from there. My truck has 2 huge batteries in it so I guess we could run it from there?

Thanks

[VK7GZ]

Thanks, I'll take a look at that one. What do you lose when going with a more portable unit like the 897 over something like the 746?

We usually have electric at the site, but I can think of a few sites where we'd take the truck up on a hill and try from there. My truck has 2 huge batteries in it so I guess we could run it from there?

Thanks


Hard for me to say as I have never touched a 746. But the 897D is a great little radio - compact and lightweight. It runs 100W on HF and 6M, 50 on 2M and 25 on 70CM. But, I think the 746 will run 100W on all bands (someone pls correct me if I am wrong).

746 looks pretty flash too ;)

For me, if operating portable was going to make up part of my overall radio use, I'd be inclined to go with the smaller, lighter rig. That's just my preference though :)

[KA2P]

As I don't really understand what you mean by "segment", could you explain a little?


Sure. Many hams seem to find a mode (Phone, CW, digital) they prefer the most. Additionally, some find a preferred style (fixed station, mobile, portable) they really enjoy. Or maybe it's contesting, QRP, or being a V/UHF rover.

It has been found (at least subjectively) that certain radios are more suited to one activity than the other. You can read the reviews on eham or in QST. They will usually discuss how each radio performs on phone, CW, in a contest, etc.

Just remember that propagation, antenna, and operator skill will always be far ahead of whatever radio you choose.

[KC2UYZ]

Sure. Many hams seem to find a mode (Phone, CW, digital) they prefer the most. Additionally, some find a preferred style (fixed station, mobile, portable) they really enjoy. Or maybe it's contesting, QRP, or being a V/UHF rover.

It has been found (at least subjectively) that certain radios are more suited to one activity than the other. You can read the reviews on eham or in QST. They will usually discuss how each radio performs on phone, CW, in a contest, etc.

Just remember that propagation, antenna, and operator skill will always be far ahead of whatever radio you choose.

OK..I think for the immediate future, I'll use phone mode (although the challenge of CW is of interest to me). By digital, can you explain what you mean there or link me to a description of how it applies to amateur radio?

Thanks for the information. Problem is...I don't know what I don't know!

[KA2P]

Digital meaning the carrier is modulated/demodulated with a software algorithm rather than your voice or, as in CW, turning the carrier on and off with a key/keyer to make characters. The most popular digital modes today are probably RTTY and PSK31. Google/youtube will return all kinds of information on how to run those modes. Using them is very much like internet chat. CW is well, CW. Simple, efficient, and highly effective.

If you want to run phone (i.e., SSB), almost anything built in the last 20 years will work just fine. I'd stick with solid-state (i.e., no tubes) for your first rig. You'll want to operate on 75, 40, and 20 meters. Of course, to operate in the most popular HF band segments, you'll need to upgrade your license to General. To be honest, 2 meter FM is pretty boring and you'll quickly outgrow it. In most places, there isn't much activity and the QSOs tend to be between people who know each other already.

I suggest picking up the ARRL Operating Manual at the library or purchase your own copy online. While most radios built today are very easy to set up, operate and almost impossible to blow up, things will be easier if you do a bit of reading. You can also read more about the myriad activities you can become involved with as a ham.


What kind of antenna are you thinking about?

[KC2UYZ]

Digital meaning the carrier is modulated/demodulated with a software algorithm rather than your voice or, as in CW, turning the carrier on and off with a key/keyer to make characters. The most popular digital modes today are probably RTTY and PSK31. Google/youtube will return all kinds of information on how to run those modes. Using them is very much like internet chat. CW is well, CW. Simple, efficient, and highly effective.

If you want to run phone (i.e., SSB), almost anything built in the last 20 years will work just fine. I'd stick with solid-state (i.e., no tubes) for your first rig. You'll want to operate on 75, 40, and 20 meters. Of course, to operate in the most popular HF band segments, you'll need to upgrade your license to General. To be honest, 2 meter FM is pretty boring and you'll quickly outgrow it. In most places, there isn't much activity and the QSOs tend to be between people who know each other already.

I suggest picking up the ARRL Operating Manual at the library or purchase your own copy online. While most radios built today are very easy to set up, operate and almost impossible to blow up, things will be easier if you do a bit of reading. You can also read more about the myriad activities you can become involved with as a ham.


What kind of antenna are you thinking about?

Great information...starting to fill in the blanks...a little!

What I want to avoid is buying a radio that will restrict me later on....same thing for an antenna...if possible.

Antennas....I'm out in the woods, at about 1200' ASL on a hilltop in NY so there are no restrictions on what I can do. It seems the easiest/cheapest way to go (from what I've read) may be a long wire? I have lots of tall trees on the edge of my property and could manage about any length of wire needed, but I'm open to suggestions. I've looked at Arrow, Buddipole and several other more portable setups as well. I have a chimney on the house that used to have a scanner antenna on a pole clamped to it and I'd have no problem doing something like that again if it made sense. I'd prefer to have one antenna that can do it all (if such a thing exists, I assume it doesn't) or maybe a long wire and then something on the house? I'm still learning the basics, so suggestions are welcome!

[KA2P]

As for buying a radio that will restrict you, a few things come to mind. One thing is ergonomics. The smaller, portable rigs have small displays and many of the functions are "hidden" via software menus. Many buttons have two or three functions depending on what mode you are in. Think scientific calculator and you'll understand what I mean. A lot of hams, especially those who are older, find this abhorrent and stick with the full-size radios where each knob controls at most two related functions and it's clear what each does. Some radios are 160-10 meters only, or lack a general coverage receiver (i.e., broadcast shortwave), but for the most part there isn't much a recently built radio can't do.

As for antennas, you appear to be in a great position. Getting your antenna up as high as possible will do wonders for your ability to hear and be heard. Big trees love wire antennas! They are easy to make, cheap to build, and withstand the elements pretty well. With an antenna tuner, you can use one antenna for multiple bands. If you have the money, you can probably find a used tower, triband yagi, and a rotator that will provide you with all the fun you can handle and then some.

A caveat about commercial antennas and performance claims. You'll see a lot of ads for them and many hams use them. However, they are using them out of necessity rather than for performance. Many hams live in small lots, condos, or treeless housing tracts. Or their wife says antennas clash with her lawn art. Putting up a tower with a yagi/quad, or lots of wire just isn't possible so a short vertical or dipole is often the only way to go. But the laws of electromagnetism don't care about marketing or the opinion of wives. Nothing beats a full-size antenna up at least a quarter-wave above the ground. About the only time you'll see verticals seriously considered is on the transmit side for 80 and 160 meters. At these long wavelengths, height above the ground becomes a serious issue and the game changes, often requiring elaborate ground plane construction for maximum efficiency as well as phasing circuits for directional gain. But that's not to say compromise antennas don't work. It just sounds like you don't have to worry about that so why handicap yourself?

Also a word about propagation. Study it. Love it. To me, it's what makes ham radio fun.

[KC2UYZ]

So, what do I lose by starting off with a long wire and a radio like the Icom IC-746 Pro?

[KA2P]

It's a bit difficult to quantify what you'd be missing with such a setup. Propagation is a huge factor in determining if a QSO is possible. Assuming your long wire is up high enough, and is properly tuned, you should be able to make plenty of contacts. Sometimes random wire antennas can be difficult to tune due to any number of things. Antennas (verticals excepted) that are low to the ground radiate mostly straight up and are omnidirectional. It's only when you get them up higher than a quarter wave above the ground will the radiation angle come down and azimuthal gain start to show up. What this means is your signal will be strongest within about 500 miles and long distance contacts will be more difficult. That being said, I've been shocked at how bad antennas can be and still make contacts, even long haul DX. I'm sure people on this site can tell you about all kinds of amazing QSOs with very bad antennas.

With a 746 Pro, you'll probably need an external antenna tuner to use a long wire, as most internal tuners won't handle bad matches which is what you'll have with a long wire on some bands. But such a setup will definitely work and should get you started.

Whatever you end up getting, spend some time listening before you transmit. Note which bands are active during the times you can operate, and pay attention to good operating practices like checking if a frequency is in use before you transmit and respecting the band plans. You'll pick up on propagation patterns and know what to expect when you turn on the rig.

Contests are a good way to get started as it's very easy to find a loud station, give him a call, and repeat back a simple exchange. Even if you are weak, they will try and finish the QSO as it means points for them. Another easy one is special event stations and clubs preparing for big contests the weekend before.

[KC2UYZ]

Is DSP something that I should require in a radio? Again..I don't really want to have to buy another radio in 6 months.

I thought I saw some radios that had the ability to show CW in plain text on the display. Is there such an animal?

I appreciate all your assistance with my learning curve.

[KL7AJ]

I've been studying for the Tech class and can pass the online preps 100% of the time. The General is still a work in progress, but I'll have my Tech license soon. Question now is what radio? My eye likes the IC-746/756 flavors and I've been told the Pro has DSP which is a well liked feature. So, while I could spend a lot less, I'm not the type to buy a budget anything when it comes to electronics. I'd rather have the features and grow into the radio. Aside from the models I listed, assuming they're a good choice, what do you folks like in the $600-$1200 new or used range? I'd like to be able to take the rig camping for some fun with the kids as well, so I assume I should stay with a radio that uses a external power supply?

Thanks in advance.


I'd never buy a rig based on what my eyes like. Is there any way you can actually operate a few different rigs at some elmer's QTH? It's really the only way to find out what you like (and what you DON'T like!) The LAST place you want to look for an unbiased report is in ham ads!

Eric

[KC2UYZ]

I'd never buy a rig based on what my eyes like. Is there any way you can actually operate a few different rigs at some elmer's QTH? It's really the only way to find out what you like (and what you DON'T like!) The LAST place you want to look for an unbiased report is in ham ads!

Eric

Probably can do this, but I have so little understanding of what features are considered desirable in a radio, which freqs I want, etc. that I'd be getting that person's opinion (not necessarily a bad thing) so i figured by asking here I'd at least get more opinions.

[KL7AJ]

Probably can do this, but I have so little understanding of what features are considered desirable in a radio, which freqs I want, etc. that I'd be getting that person's opinion (not necessarily a bad thing) so i figured by asking here I'd at least get more opinions.

Well, that's certainly a possibility...but actually getting your hands on something is still going to teach you a lot. In my "elmershack" I intentionally have some really LAME radios as well as some really nice ones. I find new hams learn a LOT more by trying out the really LAME ones!

Eric

[KC2UYZ]

Well, that's certainly a possibility...but actually getting your hands on something is still going to teach you a lot. In my "elmershack" I intentionally have some really LAME radios as well as some really nice ones. I find new hams learn a LOT more by trying out the really LAME ones!

Eric

Makes sense. I've contacted the local club and one of the officers there actually runs the club at work. I didn't know it existed, but there actually is a club with a shack at work. I'll visit with them this week sometime to get some "hands on"

Thanks

[KL7AJ]

Makes sense. I've contacted the local club and one of the officers there actually runs the club at work. I didn't know it existed, but there actually is a club with a shack at work. I'll visit with them this week sometime to get some "hands on"

Thanks


EXCELLENT! This is how ham radio is SUPPOSED to work! Keep us posted!
'
eric

[KC2UYZ]

I asked this in another thread, but thought you guys might know...I found a locally owned FT-1000MP with an October 1996 build date. Looks new and is being checked out by a local long-time HAM op as we speak. The vintage of this rig is a bit scary, but it appears to be a well regarded/reviewed unit with a lot of features. Knowing so little about radios, is this a better choice than something like an IC-756 Pro? I realize the FT is a BIG radio, but it's going to sit on a desk most of the time. I don't know what features a newer radio would have that I should consider over something like the FT.

Thanks

[KL7AJ]

I asked this in another thread, but thought you guys might know...I found a locally owned FT-1000MP with an October 1996 build date. Looks new and is being checked out by a local long-time HAM op as we speak. The vintage of this rig is a bit scary, but it appears to be a well regarded/reviewed unit with a lot of features. Knowing so little about radios, is this a better choice than something like an IC-756 Pro? I realize the FT is a BIG radio, but it's going to sit on a desk most of the time. I don't know what features a newer radio would have that I should consider over something like the FT.

Thanks

You've yet to learn what "scary" vintage means. :D

[KC2UYZ]

Ya, I've seen some rigs online that are 50-60 years old and still running!

[K0RGR]

As an HF only rig, I'm not sure how I would rate a 746 PRO vs. an FT-1000.
I'm not a big Yaesu fan when it comes to their top end rigs, but that one is usually considered a great rig. I own a 746, non-PRO, and I really like it, but my IC-7000 can hear things it can't. The PRO should be better than the 7000 on paper. But I still like the old 746.

One thing I think you should consider, though, is that the 746 PRO does have 2 meter capability - 100 watts, in fact. And from your location, I would expect that with a decent yagi, you should be able to work people on 2 meters from Michigan to the Carolinas under fairly normal conditions, assuming that they're on the air. The 756 ProIII has a better receiver than the 746, and it covers 6 meters, but not 2.

IF DSP can make a real difference in the comfort level in operating a radio. DSP noise reduction does work quite well, and can make it more enjoyable to listen to a radio.

I'd suggest you also look at some other gear in your price range. The Ten Tec Omni VII and Ten Tec Orion are American made, and the company that makes them has legendary service.

If you are 'tech-oriented' you might even consider the FLex 5000 - a fully software defined radio. I don't think anything else out there has the features, with more being added all the time.

A new radio has one big advantage - a warranty. The next best thing is a used one from a major dealer. I just got Ten Tec's used list and there were Omnis and Orions on it.

[KA2P]

Is DSP something that I should require in a radio? Again..I don't really want to have to buy another radio in 6 months.

DSP is a nice feature and most of newer radios will have it. The 746 has Pass Band Tuning which I found effective and intuitive. The Yaesu's have a slightly different system but it works well and isn't hard to figure out. DSP filtering is really just an improved software version of crystal filtering used many moons ago. It helps when band conditions are crowded or noise levels need to be knocked down. Youtube can help you find examples of what the difference sounds like on a real QSO. In certain conditions, it makes a huge difference.

Ham radio isn't like buying a PC where your processor is too slow after one year. CW and SSB, the two most popular modes on HF are very old and any radio built in the last 50 years could be used (and was used) to communicate all over the world. Most of the antennas used today are no different than what was used in WWII--some designs are as old as radio itself.


I thought I saw some radios that had the ability to show CW in plain text on the display. Is there such an animal?

Yes, I believe the Elecraft K3 will do what you describe.


I saw you asked about which bands to use. Right now on HF the higher bands (17, 15, 12, 10 meters) are only usable for short periods during the day. Many days may go by before you hear another QSO on these bands because the solar flux is so low. However, 80, 40, 30, and 20 are open reliably every day and you'll easily make contacts. 20 and 30 are open during the daylight hours shutting down around sunset, 40 is open locally during the day and internationally at night with strong peaks to the west and east during sunrise/sunset. 80 is open for local and DX contacts during the evening and early morning hours.

440, 2 meters, and 6 meters are VHF bands and normally propagate locally (line of sight). With the exception of ducting modes or Echolink, you won't hear any DX. Most people use these bands for repeaters, some of which are linked over wide areas like an interstate radio highway of sorts.

[KC2UYZ]

I thought I saw an Icom video on Youtube that showed text being displayed on the radio as if it were decoding Morse on the fly? I'll see if I can find the video.

[KA2P]

Probably the ic-7700/7800 doing RTTY or PSK31 decode. There are several computer programs that will decode/generate CW and will interface with some of the newer radios.

That being said, I found working CW contests a great way to build your speed. Just find a loud station and you'll hear his call a dozen times in a minute so there's little chance you'll mess it up. If you listen to a few exchanges, you can get everything you need to know about the exchange (or just look it up online if you are unsure). Send your call, he'll repeat back your call, add the exchange info (which you already know except maybe a qso number-hint it'll be +1 over the previous station XD). Then you send the info back with a "TU" or "73" and that's it. Most ops will slow down to the speed you sent your call. Almost fail-proof QSO, and an easy way to build speed. Again Youtube "cw contests" and you'll come up with all kinds of stuff.

[KC2UYZ]

Probably the ic-7700/7800 doing RTTY or PSK31 decode. There are several computer programs that will decode/generate CW and will interface with some of the newer radios.

That being said, I found working CW contests a great way to build your speed. Just find a loud station and you'll hear his call a dozen times in a minute so there's little chance you'll mess it up. If you listen to a few exchanges, you can get everything you need to know about the exchange (or just look it up online if you are unsure). Send your call, he'll repeat back your call, add the exchange info (which you already know except maybe a qso number-hint it'll be +1 over the previous station XD). Then you send the info back with a "TU" or "73" and that's it. Most ops will slow down to the speed you sent your call. Almost fail-proof QSO, and an easy way to build speed. Again Youtube "cw contests" and you'll come up with all kinds of stuff.

Thanks. I watched some of Randy's (K7AGE) videos on Youtube and found the one where he explained how to use Digipan and PSK31. Pretty neat stuff and that looks like what it may have been.

[K0RGR]

There are some pretty good CW programs, too. CWGet is the one I've used that I like best. It does a really good job of copying machine-sent code. Hand sent code is usually a different matter, but I have copied some people that way, fairly well.

I haven't seen many yet, but I know some Techs are trying to use these programs to have CW QSO's. As long as you keep it to a reasonable speed, like 18-20 WPM most good CW people should be able to read you, and as long as they are using a keyboard to do their sending, you should be able to copy them reasonably well.