View Full Version : Convicted spy retains amateur radio license...
After watching a network television story recounting former FBI Agent Robert P. Hanssen's capture for his treasonous activity of selling our government's secrets to a foreign government, I remembered that he supposedly was a licensed radio amateur.
A quick QRZed lookup reminded me that he holds the callsign K9QVL ---
Hmm...I can't imagine why he has not been stripped of his amateur radio license, can you?
It's obvious that he will never legally be able to operate an amateur radio station, as he is serving a life-sentence for spying against the US.
I believe that the FCC should revoke his amateur radio license immediately -- what do you think?
Is there a precident that allows the Commission to strip a convicted spy of his amateur radio license?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
73!
Jim, K9FI
n9kpn
12-31-2002, 01:35 AM
Yes it DOES seem strange that a traitor is allowed to keep his license.
A while back the FCC gave another man, Kevin Mitnick, a hard time about renewing his license. As it stands, Kevin N6NHG is still waiting to find out the status of his license. This has been since he applied for renewal BEFORE his license expired back in December 1999.
wx4qn
12-31-2002, 01:41 AM
Hmmm.
Sounds like a question we could pose to the K1MAN Piratecast on 14.275 and 3.975 since he and his organization is an expert on U.S. legal matters regarding amateur radio.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #
73 de Bob
WD8OQX
12-31-2002, 01:48 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
All I can say is...
They have revolked them for less!
It would be interesting to see what they WOULD/will do.
WD8OQX
Upon conviction, all licenses held by a convict are not automatically cancelled. #Do you really think the FCC was notified he was/is a licensed ham? #Do you think all convictions in all courts are forwarded to the FCC for review to see if the convicted person has an FCC license? #Do you think motor vehicle was notified he has a drivers license? #Do you think they care? #How about his fishing license, hunting license etc.? I think not.
His license could be cancelled right now but why? #When it comes up for renewal and he does not renew or is unable to renew his license will be voided and his calls recycled. #He can't operate anyway. #Time has a way of fixing things. #There is no hurry here.
K2WH
ka1kjz
12-31-2002, 03:25 AM
So?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
He can't operate... it will just expire quietly.
kc6ufe
12-31-2002, 04:41 AM
he might be able to scrounge enough stuff, coils from his bedsprings, etc, to make a crude cw txcvr, and operate from his cell. I think I saw that in a movie about alcatraz or something.
N9ESH
12-31-2002, 06:37 AM
Maybe they have a club station at the "grey bar"? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
KC9AIE
12-31-2002, 03:28 PM
Well, SOME people should have the decency to change their address to JAIL using quickform 605! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #-Cheers
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Dan, KC9AIE http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Having a Ham license doesn't make us famous. #Not many people even care about our status as Hams. #It really doesn't make us any more special than having a Driver's License or a Hunting License.
I am sure the courts don't care about his Ham status unless it pertains to the trial.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Upon conviction, all licenses held by a convict are not automatically cancelled. #Do you really think the FCC was notified he was/is a licensed ham? #Do you think all convictions in all courts are forwarded to the FCC for review to see if the convicted person has an FCC license? #Do you think motor vehicle was notified he has a drivers license? #Do you think they care? #How about his fishing license, hunting license etc.? #I think not.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree. #I am sure he is not operating under his callsign from prison. #The only thing remotely like harm it causes is that I can't apply for a vanity callsign and request his call until it lapses for two years.
The license would probably have been canceled or set aside immediately if his crime would have involved the use of Ham radio, but it has nothing to do with the case at all. Having an Amateur Radio license is not like having a Concealed Weapons Permit or something. There's no background check and anyone with $10 and the right knowledge can become a Ham.
Contrary to what many believe, there is not some sort of automatic, instantaneous interconnection between the DMV, FCC, FBI, CIA, PTA, QRZ, CEO, local police, school board, Universites, prisons, Mom, apple pie, Chevrolet, your bank, and Santa Claus. #
I have no idea why so many people think every organization across the board is instantly updated when information changes when, in the same world, you have to make 10-20 phone calls to update information every time you change your address.
Do you think, if I was imprisoned, the warden would take the time to go online himself and cancel my ham ticket, call the DMV to cancel my driver's license, Fill out a mail-forwarding card, sell my house, and feed my cat?
If not, maybe I could talk him into stringing up a 20-meter dipole for me.
WA9SVD
12-31-2002, 05:31 PM
Hanssen's license will expire and not be renewed. However, Kevin Mitnick DID finally get his license renewed within the last month. His probation expires in January, and the FCC felt he was sufficiently rehabilatated and renewed his ticket.
VE1IDX
12-31-2002, 06:37 PM
Boy that's something we all need brought out into the open.I can see it now.Headlines read:"Convicted Spy Has Ham Radio Liscence Revoked!"Wait until that makes the news,and it would sooner or later.Makes it look like he was using the radio to pass on info to the other side.Not exactly an impression that we want people to believe in given world events do we?Since he is in no position to go on the air why not just let it expire naturally and quietly.
K0RGR
12-31-2002, 08:51 PM
I remember back in the 1960's, my Dad had a fun time getting a top security clearance because he had to document ALL of his contacts with any communist country going back many years. Fortunately, he was very good at keeping logbooks - I remember him going through drawers full of them looking for old DX Contest QSOs dating back over 20 years. He had to list and explain them all! Maybe now you know why!
M3TMC
12-31-2002, 09:02 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (VE1IDX @ Dec. 31 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Boy that's something we all need brought out into the open.I can see it now.Headlines read:"Convicted Spy Has Ham Radio Liscence Revoked!"Wait until that makes the news,and it would sooner or later.Makes it look like he was using the radio to pass on info to the other side.Not exactly an impression that we want people to believe in given world events do we?Since he is in no position to go on the air why not just let it expire naturally and quietly.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How do you know he wasnt using his radio/s to pass on info? I bet he was.
VE1IDX
12-31-2002, 09:47 PM
While I am not intimately familiar with the full story of how he did it I believe that he had a designated drop spot and would contact his pick up man when a drop was ready.He would be a fool (he was anyway) to use ham radio to deliver the info.Not exactly clandestine even if it was coded.Most of the info was in the form of documents that would need to be copied if for no other reason than to prove that they are legit.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Well All...
I am pleased to see that this discussion collectively developed such a sensible "solution" to Hanssen still holding a valid amateur radio license -- that's RIGHT -- about all he can do with it (the license) is HOLD it --
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
When it comes up for renewal, it should perish quietly -- I think a note to the Commission (just for good measure) to "flag" his ticket for non-viability when the expiration occurs would be in order --
Food for thought tho --- it would be a hoot to see if he did maintain his logbook(s) over the years, and if they contain ANY interesting notations that could be linked to his "fall" --
I think that its safe to assume that he was an amateur radio operator before he became a spy. I wonder what, if anything (other than greed) precipitated his slide.
...Jim, K9FI
n9kpn
12-31-2002, 11:45 PM
I have checked Mitnick's records on and off for some time. #The last time I checked was just before posting and it still showed EXPIRES 12 DEC 1999. #It was a big deal back when he first renewed but I had not read that he got his renewal.
M3TMC made a point I started to make but did not post. #How simple would it have been for Hanssen to have had a "numbers" station operating right from his home. #Having radio gear without a license would definately draw attention. #Having a valid call would be a good cover. #But I never read anything about Hannsen using radio to pass information. #Something missed?
ks6jw
01-01-2003, 05:33 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9FI @ Dec. 27 2002,20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After watching a network television story recounting former FBI Agent Robert P. Hanssen's capture for his treasonous activity of selling our government's secrets to a foreign government, I remembered that he supposedly was a licensed radio amateur.
A quick QRZed lookup reminded me that he holds the callsign K9QVL ---
Hmm...I can't imagine why he has not been stripped of his amateur radio license, can you?
It's obvious that he will never legally be able to operate an amateur radio station, as he is serving a life-sentence for spying against the US.
I believe that the FCC should revoke his amateur radio license immediately -- what do you think?
Is there a precident that allows the Commission to strip a convicted spy of his amateur radio license?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
73!
Jim, K9FI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What he receives from his peers will add to the punishment for his crime. I know, back in 1991 I had my license suspended for a year for operating outside the ham bands and I still get harassed by some hams on a repeater here in the Bay Area. The way I see it, I've paid for my crime many years ago which negates what I did. The bad karma that they've been spreading from that point on will only come back to them. We all make mistakes, but life goes on! Happy New Year from KK6SM. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ks6jw
01-01-2003, 05:42 PM
What he receives from his peers will add to the punishment for his crime. I know, back in 1991 I had my license suspended for a year for operating outside the ham bands and I still get harassed by some hams on a repeater here in the Bay Area. The way I see it, I've paid for my crime many years ago which negates what I did. The bad karma that they've been spreading from that point on will only come back to them. We all make mistakes, but life goes on. Happy New Year from KK6SM! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
wb4jhs
01-01-2003, 09:55 PM
Hey maybe we could hire the ham-spy to be our mole on the inside of the lockup to look for drugs, corrupt guards & leak new info he heard confessed by key criminals. #He could transmit the info out by CW and be let out for good behavior early and then go on a book tour about the whole experience and or the proceeds go for spy-rehab or a Dxpedition to some exotic location where he could be left behind after the Dxpedition returns. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Perhaps it will be a movie with Dinero or Eastwood or Harrison Ford that takes Ham awareness to new levels during the HF sunspot lull. #"the DX'r that went Bad" #Coming to movie houses everywhere...from his humble start on AM CB radio in the 70's to super-spy ham radio op....(I'm done).
KG4IUA
01-02-2003, 02:48 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
why stop at a 20 dipole.....can you imagine the wire loop you could get strung between the guard towers?
73,
Bill
No need to waste wire on a convict...
Let him load up the concertina (sp) wire around the top of the walls...
And he could use the Electric chair as an operating position...
And the chair switch as a code key ...
D I T ...argggghhhhhhhh...
WA9SVD
01-02-2003, 04:13 PM
Just FYI: C/Net News reported on 26 December, that the FCC had decided to finally renew Kevin Mitnick's license. The decision was made 23 December after a lengthy and expensive legal battle. The renewal had been held up since 1999.
As an aside, the FCC evidently did NOT suspend or revoke his license in spite of his conviction and imprisonment; it just waited until renewal to deal with the matter.
IMHO, I don't think the FCC can revoke a license for non-FCC related violations, but it CAN refuse renewal for moral character flaws.
wa8vnz
01-02-2003, 11:32 PM
You sound like you may be another ham with way too much time on his hands. #May I suggest that you spend it on the ham bands and not worrying about piling on this "convicted-spy", way after the government has already taken care of him. #If you are worrying about his holding a license tarnishing the hobby, may I direct you to one of the many lunatic groups on the 75 meter band, to put things in perspective.
As far as Mitnick goes, although I take no stand either way on his past, he has in fact as the judge recently expounded, paid his debt and apears to have rehabilitated himself. Now, if you feel the need to incorporate vigilante, mob rule and push to have him found "unfit" to hold an amateur license go ahead, but from what I have read about him, he is one intelligent cookie when it comes to technology, and is probably the type of individual most capable of "saving" this hobby.
WA8VNZ
WA9SVD
01-03-2003, 06:31 AM
To WA8VNZ:
I'm not sure to whom you directed your comment. (No need for personal attacks.)
But IMHO, if Mitnick has finished his probation, and an admin. judge for the FCC has ruled his license can be renewed, that I will accept that decision. As long as he follows the current rules, he's no better or worse than any other Amateur Radio Operator.
wa8vnz
01-03-2003, 02:29 PM
To WA9VSD
The reply was to the original post of course, as is usually the case when you hit the add a reply button.
re: (No need for personal attacks.)
If you want to take the post as a personal attack, more power to you. #It was in effect my observations as to the lumping together the cases of a convicted spy and that of a convicted "hacker", and the implication of the original poster that anything short of stringing up the offenders would be letting them off lightly.
Your comments on Mitnick seem to paralell my own, except that you seem to begrudgingly imply that we would be better off without him in our ranks ( re: I will accept that decision). #If this is the case, then I respectfully disagree. #Mitnicks technical expertise should be a welcome addition to a hobby, that has seen its vault of technical talent by the vast majority of licensees, watered down via the dummying down of the exam process. #
If you take this as a personal attack on you or any other person, that is just your opinion. #If you take it as an attack on the system as a whole, you may have a valid point.
WA8VNZ
W5ATX
01-03-2003, 06:40 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0PU @ Jan. 01 2003,21:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No need to waste wire on a convict...
Let him load up the concertina (sp) wire around the top of the walls...
And he could use the Electric chair as an operating position...
And the chair switch as a code key ...
D I T ...argggghhhhhhhh...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Dagnabbitt Harry, I wish I'd come up with that one. I like it. 22 years working in the state prison makes that idea especially appealing for me. And as for the scum - Hanssen - selling the USA down the drain, maybe we could see if HE would radiate . . . . hmmmmmmmmmm there's a thought.
I don't get to thinking violently like this except for certain situations. This knucklehead is really no better than the scum being chased around Afghanistan right now, is he?
God Bless the USA and free peoples everywhere
73,
Chris
WA9SVD
01-03-2003, 06:53 PM
To WA8VNZ:
I'll accept your meant no personal attack, and I'm sorry if I took your comment the wrong way.
I agree with you, Kevin Mitnick has shown that he HAS rehabilitated himself, and the Judge approved the renewal of his license, which I actually support. I guess I should have said we ALL should accept the decision. I''m glad to see someone of his skill and intelligence again able to use his skills unfettered by conditions and restrictions.
Happy New Year to you.
Larry WA9SVD
ATX:
I remember when the Walkers and their bunch were arrested. I am Navy through and through and many of us were so ashamed... and outraged... It was a very bad time.
I took it very personally. I think I woulda pulled the switch on the bunch of them at the time.
I've gotten older and mellowed a bit since then, but it still hurts the heart.
KD7SDY
01-05-2003, 05:16 AM
I have a question? Can a person in prison operate a ham radio? I was wondering if it has happened before is there laws about it? get an antenna tuner and use the bed springs or as someone before said string a 102 ft dipole betweem guard towers? I wonder if people said your 59 signal wheres ur qth ? then they reply the Arizona state prison . lol
73's KD7SDY
Not bloody likely...
My wife's ex is in the pen for trying to poison her... and from there he tried to hire a hit man to finish the job... I don't think they need MORE communications... thank you very much...
My personal opinion is they should be cut off all together from personal communications with the possible exception of a lawyer... You would not believe the crap their families will do for them on the outside... including committing crimes for them... and gang contacts are a serious danger to anyone who has witnessed against them...
My wife and I are still shaky when a car pulls up along side of us for more than a few seconds... We made contact with the prison he is now in and they said they weren't even aware that he had been convicted a second time for trying to kill her... and they weren't monitoring his calls... not enough manpower... It can get really scary...
If the story interests you, Read about it here:
http://donna.earth2.net/
They are presently doing the final re-writes on a movie about her poisoning, the trial and her recuperation... It should go into casting and production this spring...
And just in case someone decides to try and call me a hypocrite for my previous statements about Mitnick and then those above, I will say this... When Jim Boley gets outta prison he should be afforded the same rights as any other ex-con....
Let's see, two life term...served consecutively and 15 years for the hit man thing... he should be about 142 when eligible for parole... Yep, same rights as any other ex-con...
WA9SVD
01-05-2003, 06:43 AM
To N0PU:
I don't understand your point. A life sentence is just that. How could anyone outlive two consequetive such sentences, plus 15 years, no matter how long they lived? Even if they DID live to 142 years, they'd never fulfill the first sentence.
Mitnick may have done some dumb things, and caused some economic damage, but I fail to see the parallel. Mr. Mitnick has served his time, AND fulfilled the terms of his probation. Let's put his genius to use to help protect our holy(sic) computer systems, rather than condemning him forever. If he's truly rehabilitated, then he can teach us all a lot about better computer security. I'd much rather have him on MY side.
Ahhhh... That's what most people don't understand...
A life sentence is eligible for parole in different states at different times... My understanding is that in Missouri he is eligible for parole after 13 years. In his case IF he got parole then he would start the second sentence... and 13 years later come up for parole on that... however he kinda screwed his first parole chance when he got convicted of hiring the hit man ( actually it was an undercover cop and they got him on video tape).... so he has to do a minimum of 26 years on the first, earn parole, do 13 on the second and start the 15 year sentence.... Our information is that he won't get the second parole either because of the hit man thing... but parole boards change over years so nothing is positive... The nearest estimate we have gotten from those in the know say it'll be at least 90 years before he could possibly get out...and he is 52 now... That makes him 142 at his first possibility of getting out... He won't ever get out...
The point is he could have gotten out in 26 years on two life sentences if he hadn't screwed up.... He did make another mistake tho... He got caught selling GED exam answers in a class he was teaching in prison... Our guess is that he was trying to raise money to hire the hit man... That goes against him too...
As far a Mitnick... I totally agree with you... And I believe that about Anyone who has done their time... Give them the benefit of the doubt...
Let's not be to harsh on this inactive ham. #My take is that there would be a pilup to work this guy his prison cell using a FT-757GTX favored by most clandistine operators.
wa8vnz
01-06-2003, 06:05 PM
re: life sentence
I am no lawyer, but I think you can seperate these two in your mind
Life
and
Life without parole
The first, Life can mean different things in different in different jurisdictions, taking into account time for good behavior, minimum sentence and maybe other things.
I believe Life without parole can mean just that
And I seem to remember something about Life plus a day.
WA8VNZ
dbrig32453
01-08-2003, 03:01 PM
Some radio operator can sit on his back porch, with a MFJ-259, and monitor all his traffic. Maybe get paid to do it too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
After reading what you wrote, I looked up his call. It really others me that the American flag is on that page. I think they shouold take it off and put a Russian flag on there.
N8EN
kb5xw
01-10-2003, 04:45 PM
It is my understanding that once you are convicted of a felony, you are stripped of all your civil liberties. I believe that an amateur radio license would fall under that category. This type of scum has no business holding an American amateur license. Maybe Russia can issue him one of theirs.
Raymond J. Green MSGT. USAF Ret.
kg6eak
01-11-2003, 11:48 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Just a quick update:
Kevin Mitnick N6NHG , was able to renew his license
about a month ago. You should be hearing him on the air pretty frequently. As far as being able to keep your license after commiting a crime, I feel it depends on the crime itself. Spying, NO license, alleged computer tampering, keep your license. That's my 2 cents, now, I'll just sit back and wait for the barage of insults to start.
73
kg6eak
kb5xw
01-12-2003, 12:27 AM
Kevin Mitnick N6NHG , was able to renew his license
about a month ago. You should be hearing him on the air pretty frequently. As far as being able to keep your license after commiting a crime, I feel it depends on the crime itself. Spying, NO license, alleged computer tampering, keep your license. That's my 2 cents, now, I'll just sit back and wait for the barage of insults to start.
If Mitnick has paid his debt to society, I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is someone selling US all down the river. No pun intended. This sorry excuse for an American has no business with anything the government has to offer. I personally believe he is very lucky to be alive let alone retain an amateur radio license. If he did to the Russians as he did to us, he would already be dead. As a 20 year military vet, my opinion is that he got off too easy. I'm certain that numerous US citizens have gone to their MAKER because of his actions.
Raymond J. Green Msgt. USAF Ret.
WA9SVD
01-12-2003, 05:32 PM
Ray,
Kevin Mitnick didn't get his license back with out a legal fight. His renewal was held up while he was in prison, and during his probation. He had to have a hearing before an administrative judge, who took into consideration his crime, and his behavior after his conviction and during probation. The judge decided Mitnick had been rehabilitated, so he approved the renewal. But the renewal did not take place while Mitnick was in prison.
The reason the spy still has a license is most likely that no bothered to tell the FCC, or ask the FCC to take action. But I'd be willing to bet it will quietly expire without renewal. He can't use the license, so why bother the FCC with more paperwork.
wa8vnz
01-19-2003, 06:21 PM
From this weeks Newsline.
The other item is even more interesting. After the story ran, we began
getting reports that Hanssen's call had been deleted. We went over and
checked the FCC's database. It was still there. It was also on the
Buckmaster websire, but ther was a surrprise when you inputted the K9QVL
call over on QRZ.com. It came back stating that the K9QVL listing was
no longer in the QRZed database.
WHAT GIVES? A LITTLE CREATIVE EDITING OF THE DATABASE BY QRZ.COM?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
According to QRZ qsl lookup, the callsign K9QVL is NOT in the database. I would assume the license has expired/evoked and the callsign is not re-assigned.
N4ADO
02-10-2003, 05:04 AM
I seem to recall that a person who is convicted of a federal crime, automatically loses his "Citizenship". I don't think that he can be a licensed amateur anymore. I would think that all that is needed is for someone to notify FCC.
I could be wrong about this though.
73 de N4ADO
WA9SVD
02-10-2003, 03:29 PM
A person convicted of a Federal crime does not lose his "Citizenship." That really can't be taken away, (unless the person is a naturalized citizen, in which case they could be stripped of their U.S. Citizenship and deported. But that would be only for a VERY serious crime.)
A person convicted of a Federal crime MAY lose some of their rights, however, including the right to vote. Naturally, if they are sentenced to prison, they lose a lot more than the right to vote. But depending upon the crime, if they finish their sentence, or what ever penalty has been applied to their case, they may have their rights restored.
I'm sure a lawyer could be much more specific about this.
wa8vnz
02-11-2003, 11:01 PM
The hacker gets hacked.
link
http://www.usatoday.com/tech....d_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/computersecurity/2003-02-10-mitnick-hacked_x.htm)