MARS mods advice

[AE6LX]

I keep seeing people saying "contact your MARS director, he will have the info you need" as advice. That is lousy advice and it needs to stop, IMO.

I cannot speak for all MARS organizations, but I certainly don't know of any collection of modification info in my area. The volunteer directors also have enough to do without having to walk people through mods that they are supposed to be able to perform themselves. These mods are not closely guarded secrets and the manufacturers readily give them out. If you email the tech support of one of the manufactures and give them a MARS call, they will just email you the info without any verification that the MARS call is even valid!

I swear, this is a conversation I had with a MARS Trial Member earlier this year. He called me up for help. He went to his local Ham radio shop to ask them to either perform or tell him how to perform the mod needed for his rig. They told him that they could only do it if he provided documentation that he was a MARS member. He told them that he doesn't receive said documentation until he has completed his training. They told him they wouldn't do the mod then. In order to complete his training, he needs to operate on the air on MARS nets, which he tells them. They say, have your "person in charge" write us a letter that you are indeed in training and we'll do the mod for you (and charge you for it also). What a giant hassle and waste of time for everyone. He calls me asking me what he's supposed to do and was very frustrated with the whole process. I looked up the info on the internet and gave it to him and told him I would do it for him if he couldn't do it himself.

I don't even care if the person isn't a MARS member, I'll still give the info, especially if the person holds an Amateur license. Certainly it would be great if lots of amatuers would join MARS but they don't or can't. If a non-MARS station came up on a MARS net with a life or death situation from a big disaster (like a hurricane) asking for help, they would not be run off and they would be given assistance.

[W6GQ]

"Shagging" them off to the MARS director is defeating the purpose of this forum with the Radio Modification section.

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=175937

The same person who "shags" them off to the director is the same person that cannot post much help to anyone on this forum.

Search this persons posts from the advanced search section, he mostly complains about posts in the wrong section, radio mods, new hams, very rarely do I see any productive info, sad ham he is indeed!

[W0LPQ]

Mr. GQ.

Complain about wrong forums ... nope. However I have commented that usually it needs to be in the DX Helper Forum. I have even use the little red triangle in the corner to alert whoever is on the other end, that maybe this belongs in the DX Helper Forum.

Complain about mods ... yep. Since WE are a service who takes care of itself, we do tend to discourage those who use radios out of band. I know that your website is related primarily to CB, which I could care less about, only have 2 of them and both are on 10M AM and have been since the day I got them. I visited your site once and after 5 or 6 threads was locked out. Have not been back since, nor will I.

Never offer any assistance to anyone ... guess again Mr. Hamer, there have been plenty of posts that I have offered info, guess you never read them.

Cut down new hams ... don't think so...! I have given radios to new guys ... at no charge ... period, helped build antennas, round up feedline for them etc.

Sad ham indeed ... guess so, I was on Midars assisting years before you were even licensed. I don't go there anymore however.

Just because I (and many others) do not agree with opening up the transmit on most radios (60M excluded) but VHF/UHF radios don't have 60M and there is nothing outside the amateur spectrum anyway.

You want to encourage this type of activity, go for it.

I am done. Period.

[W6GQ]

I am done. Period.

Thank Goodness, I was getting tired of reading your posts. :D

[AE6LX]

W0LPQ,

First off, you were never "locked out" of that site. You are required to register if you choose to keep visiting. That is standard practice on almost all online forums, perhaps except for this one. Learn how to read the instructions that are put up on internet sites...they are there for a reason.

Second, while I can see that 'GQ's post was directed squarely at antagonizing you, your follow-up did nothing to refute my original stance on the topic: Your advice and others that are similar on this subject is lousy, and it needs to stop. If you want to help without giving out mod info, tell people to contact the manufacturer with their MARS call sign. Don't tell them to contact their state director. Or, save all of us some trouble that are trying to encourage people to sign up and participate in these services by just giving them the info they need without making them go through a trial by fire.

[AE6LX]

I know that your website is related primarily to CB, which I could care less about, only have 2 of them and both are on 10M AM and have been since the day I got them.

So you have two illegal 10m export radios then? Tsk, Tsk...

Sorry, I couldn't help it... :rolleyes:

[KC4RAN]

I keep seeing people saying "contact your MARS director, he will have the info you need" as advice. That is lousy advice and it needs to stop, IMO.

I cannot speak for all MARS organizations, but I certainly don't know of any collection of modification info in my area.

You don't keep instructions on how to make most radios work on the MARS service? Why wouldn't you? I don't need those modifications for amateur radio frequencies, in most cases - excluding new band allocations... but I certainly do need them to use that same radio on MARS allocations.

What this really looks like is that you don't want to put up with the additional queries from new MARS recruits. But... I can't see that being a really high-traffic situation? Are you really getting 5-10 people a day asking you for the mods? Or is it more likely 1-2 every three months or so?

Is the problem that they're asking you, or that they're having to ask at all?




If a non-MARS station came up on a MARS net with a life or death situation from a big disaster (like a hurricane) asking for help, they would not be run off and they would be given assistance.Ahh, the old "I might need to talk to the police / fire / EMS / NSA, so I should mod my radio" argument. I would guess that the vast majority of people who are asking for these types of mods are not actually MARS members or prospective members, so if they use the "reason" as needing it for MARS, why wouldn't you tell them to contact a MARS person?

But since they're not really MARS members, they're usually looking for the info to enable out-of-band operation like freebanding, or they intend to use a non-certificated radio on certificated or other hardware-specific services like Public Service or CB, or they are in that 'I might need to talk to the Police' whacker group.

Don't tell me that the freebanders are really calling you guys up and asking for mod info?

[WA9SVD]

I keep seeing people saying "contact your MARS director, he will have the info you need" as advice. That is lousy advice and it needs to stop, IMO.

I cannot speak for all MARS organizations, but I certainly don't know of any collection of modification info in my area. The volunteer directors also have enough to do without having to walk people through mods that they are supposed to be able to perform themselves. These mods are not closely guarded secrets and the manufacturers readily give them out. If you email the tech support of one of the manufactures and give them a MARS call, they will just email you the info without any verification that the MARS call is even valid!

I swear, this is a conversation I had with a MARS Trial Member earlier this year. He called me up for help. He went to his local Ham radio shop to ask them to either perform or tell him how to perform the mod needed for his rig. They told him that they could only do it if he provided documentation that he was a MARS member. He told them that he doesn't receive said documentation until he has completed his training. They told him they wouldn't do the mod then. In order to complete his training, he needs to operate on the air on MARS nets, which he tells them. They say, have your "person in charge" write us a letter that you are indeed in training and we'll do the mod for you (and charge you for it also). What a giant hassle and waste of time for everyone. He calls me asking me what he's supposed to do and was very frustrated with the whole process. I looked up the info on the internet and gave it to him and told him I would do it for him if he couldn't do it himself.

I don't even care if the person isn't a MARS member, I'll still give the info, especially if the person holds an Amateur license. Certainly it would be great if lots of amatuers would join MARS but they don't or can't. If a non-MARS station came up on a MARS net with a life or death situation from a big disaster (like a hurricane) asking for help, they would not be run off and they would be given assistance.



With all due respect:


Fine. Then refer ALL requests to Yaesu, Icom, or Kenwood. They WILL provide the modification information when provided with authentic MARS authorization, and will reject any other requests, and rightly so. There is no longer any legitimate "CAP" modification of Amatewur equipment, so MARS can easily set a policy, as you suggest, that instructions for modification of equipment come ONLY from the manufacturer, when provided with proper documentation from MARS authorized stations. There's really no legitimate reason to provide the information to others; they have no reason to operate on MARS or any other frequency not assigned to Amateurs.

Why should it even be a matter of discussion? With MARS authorization, ANY station can receive the mod information from the maunfacturers. So as you say, it's not even worth the effort to tell others to contact their MARS authority.

Now, the fly in the ointment is that there are some that CLAIM to be in MARS (or laughably, still use the CAP excuse) and demand mod information, but fully intend to use the mod for illegal operation on non-Amateur frequencies, and often can't tell the difference between MARS and the "Fourth Rock from the Sun."

[AE6LX]

KC4RAN,

Rather than debate me, you can argue with this:

http://www.navymars.org/national/libequip.htm

This isn't about me or others not wanting to help people that need the help, no matter how you want to try and twist things around. As you can tell, I have no problem giving out the information, and neither does QRZ, especially since they have their very own mods section on this site.

My post is about incorrect advice being given out on this forum. I have now provided the correct advice for those who don't want to give out mod info.

[KC4RAN]

KC4RAN,

Rather than debate me, you can argue with this:

http://www.navymars.org/national/libequip.htm

This isn't about me or others not wanting to help people that need the help, no matter how you want to try and twist things around. As you can tell, I have no problem giving out the information, and neither does QRZ, especially since they have their very own mods section on this site.

My post is about incorrect advice being given out on this forum. I have now provided the correct advice for those who don't want to give out mod info.

How is it incorrect advice? Far from it. If they are representing themselves as a "MARS" member or if they are saying they want mod information for "MARS", then I think it's completely appropriate to ask for that information from their MARS leadership. By you posting that link, you have demonstrated that at least one portion of MARS has taken the steps to handle the situation.

I can't believe you wouldn't want someone who claims to be or wants to be affiliated with MARS to contact their local MARS leadership for matters related to MARS?

[W6GQ]

Well all this talk about MARS mods got me listening to the MARS net, 4.007 USB and someone must have seen this post? They asked net where they are to get the mods, Net control said mods.dk or qrz.com :p

Funny how that works LOL

According to how some present the argument this section of the forum should be removed and modifications should aslo be removed from the QRZ database if the feelings are this strong against providing the info. If QRZ did not want to provide the information then this section would not exist?

This section IS for modifications, not to debate why or why not.

In fact this thread should have been moved to the talks and opinions section of the forum? It would "fit" better there?

Please read this http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=175937

[W0LPQ]

6LX the last time I was involved with any MARS stuff, the MARS director was the place to go. If that has changed, fine. No need to get your panties in a wad. Just go the the OEM who made the radio, furnish your license and you will get the info. By the way, you are so wrong on the 10AM rigs. One is an ECI Courier that is crystal controlled (one crystal) and the other is a set of Hy-Gain boards purchased from Burstein Applebee in the mid 70's. So ... no illegal stuff ... long before that list was compiled. You lose.

GQ you could always put me on your ignore list. Would not bother me a bit.
I don't care to read your tripe either.

[NN4RH]

I think the point that has been lost here is that very very few, if any, of the clowns asking for "MARS Mod" or "MARS/CAP Mode" have anything to do with MARS and have no intention of ever having anything to do with MARS. For whatever reason, they just gotta have the ability to operate illegally. I suspect the vast majority of them are new codeless hams crossing over from the CB/Freebander world, where it is standard practice or some sort of rite of passage expected that you must modify your radio to operate illegally in some fashion. The first thing you're supposed to do when you get a radio is "mod" it to transmit where you have no regulatory authority to be transmitting. Rationalizations vary.

In fact I don't think in the whole time this section has been here, have I ever seen anyone with a legitimate, genuine interest in joining MARS asking for a MARS Mod. If someone could provide a link to such a post, I'd be interested in seeing it. Legitimate MARS members or those legitimately interested in MARS have other channels for obtaining the necessary equipment modifications.

There are of course some legitimate reasons to "mod" the transmit capabilities of a radio. For example, to allow 60 meter operation. But if that's the case, then just come on and ask for the 60 meter mod. Don't bounce in here acting like some clueless newb, asking for a "MARS/CAPS" mod just because you saw the term on a CB web site and otherwise have no idea what it means.

I for one don't think licensed hams should be facilitating illegal behavior where that is clearly the intent of the person asking for the "mod". And virtually every time, that such is the intent is very obvious.

And besides, if they had any brains at all, they could have found it through Google, anyway. It's sort of an IQ test. If you even have to ask for the "MARS/CAPS" mod then you're probably too dumb to have it and use it responsibly.

[WA9SVD]

There's a legitimate reason to tell requestors to "get the mod from MARS." Legitimate MARS authorized stations will do just that, or be referred to the manufacturer. The operators that are not MARS authorized stations won't get a pleasant answer, even if they know how to contact any MARS officials. And the legitimate MARS operators deserve a decent answer from their organization.

[W6GQ]

GQ you could always put me on your ignore list. Would not bother me a bit.
I don't care to read your tripe either.

Darn he lied, he came back, he was NOT done, PERIOD :D

[KC4RAN]

There's a legitimate reason to tell requestors to "get the mod from MARS." Legitimate MARS authorized stations will do just that, or be referred to the manufacturer. The operators that are not MARS authorized stations won't get a pleasant answer, even if they know how to contact any MARS officials. And the legitimate MARS operators deserve a decent answer from their organization.
Yep, and if the legitimate MARS officials aren't willing to give that information to the legitimate MARS authorized stations, that's saying something. But I don't think that is what this is all about. I think it's about a certain station whining and crying that people are being sent his way with questions, and it's taking up his time.

Of course, why on earth would you point someone who claims to be part of MARS towards a MARS official for information they claim they need for to participate in MARS? I mean, that's crazy talk!

[AE6LX]

You guys talk in circles with each other to try and validate your own position on this topic. This stuff is gold for the logic fallacy curicuulum for philosophy and debate professors everywhere. Someone even brought the "code/no-code" tactic into the argument which is clearly off-limits on QRZ:
I suspect the vast majority of them are new codeless hams

Oh yeah, code isn't a requirment for MARS. Guess what, it wasn't before the code requirement was dropped for HF priviledges, either.

You talk of Amateur radio being "self policing". Well, as soon as any operator is operating outside the Amateur band, the they are no longer operating in a band that we as amateurs have authority to "self police". If they are interfereing with MARS, military, primary or secondary users of non-amateur services, the appropriate enforcement authorities will be contacted and the matter will be dealt with. If a radio op is interfering on a MARS frequency, it won't be Riley (or whoever his replacement is) that will be sending him a letter.

I think it's about a certain station whining and crying that people are being sent his way with questions, and it's taking up his time.

Yes, that is why I continue to take my time to monitor these threads and post the information. That's also why I post the information on other sites, too. Because it takes too much of my time. :cool: That's why I'm talking my time to point out that many of the the pharisaical answers given to those who might be doing something they're not supposed to are also misguided. That's why QRZ has a mod section in the forum. That's why they have a mod database link on the main page.

Gold.

You guys keep doing it your way and I'll keep doing it my way. I better not ever catch any of you giving advice on changing the exhaust on your car/truck, putting in a K&N air filter, riding a Harley with aftermarket pipes, putting up an antenna structure without a building permit, "forgetting" to get your HOA's approval on your front yard landscaping, over watering your front yard, tossing a cig butt in the gutter, or even spilling gas on the ground at the pump. All of those things are illegal or unlawful in many states. Some people here always assume guilt without even attempting to understand intent. I prefer to assume innocense first.

Two quotes to live by:
"Seek first to understand then to be understood" - Stephen Covey
"Let he who is without guilt cast the first stone" - Jesus Christ

[AE6LX]

Well all this talk about MARS mods got me listening to the MARS net, 4.007 USB and someone must have seen this post? They asked net where they are to get the mods, Net control said mods.dk or qrz.com

Oh the irony. Net control should have also told them they'll have to wade through a serious load of BS to get the info, though. hehehehe.....

[WA9SVD]

Yep, and if the legitimate MARS officials aren't willing to give that information to the legitimate MARS authorized stations, that's saying something. But I don't think that is what this is all about. I think it's about a certain station whining and crying that people are being sent his way with questions, and it's taking up his time.

Of course, why on earth would you point someone who claims to be part of MARS towards a MARS official for information they claim they need for to participate in MARS? I mean, that's crazy talk!


Imagine that. An apparent MARS official that doesn't want to be bothered with even legitimate MARS business...
In the case of mods, just refer those inquiring mod info to the manufacturer. Simple, to the point, and the operators will be sure to get accurate information.

[W6GQ]

WA9SVD and AE6LX, you guys do not live to far apart, you should meet at an El Pollo Loco and swap stories of HF. :D :D

[AE6LX]

Imagine that. An apparent MARS official that doesn't want to be bothered with even legitimate MARS business...

I'll explain it slowly once more so even the fourth graders that are reading this thread can understand:

They don't have the information. They don't keep the information. If you don't have the information you can't give it out.


In the case of mods, just refer those inquiring mod info to the manufacturer. Simple, to the point, and the operators will be sure to get accurate information.

That was the only part of that last post that was accurate.

[NN4RH]

Someone even brought the "code/no-code" tactic into the argument which is clearly off-limits on QRZ:

I suspect the vast majority of them are new codeless hams

Oh yeah, code isn't a requirment for MARS. Guess what, it wasn't before the code requirement was dropped for HF priviledges, either.

You used a partial quote and used it out of context.

Here was the full quote.

I think the point that has been lost here is that very very few, if any, of the clowns asking for "MARS Mod" or "MARS/CAP Mode" have anything to do with MARS and have no intention of ever having anything to do with MARS. For whatever reason, they just gotta have the ability to operate illegally. I suspect the vast majority of them are new codeless hams crossing over from the CB/Freebander world, where it is standard practice or some sort of rite of passage expected that you must modify your radio to operate illegally in some fashion. The first thing you're supposed to do when you get a radio is "mod" it to transmit where you have no regulatory authority to be transmitting. Rationalizations vary.

Clearly it had nothing at all to do with the credentials of MARS members, as you tried to imply.

[WR8D]

I keep seeing people saying "contact your MARS director, he will have the info you need" as advice. That is lousy advice and it needs to stop, IMO.

I cannot speak for all MARS organizations, but I certainly don't know of any collection of modification info in my area. The volunteer directors also have enough to do without having to walk people through mods that they are supposed to be able to perform themselves. These mods are not closely guarded secrets and the manufacturers readily give them out. If you email the tech support of one of the manufactures and give them a MARS call, they will just email you the info without any verification that the MARS call is even valid!

I swear, this is a conversation I had with a MARS Trial Member earlier this year. He called me up for help. He went to his local Ham radio shop to ask them to either perform or tell him how to perform the mod needed for his rig. They told him that they could only do it if he provided documentation that he was a MARS member. He told them that he doesn't receive said documentation until he has completed his training. They told him they wouldn't do the mod then. In order to complete his training, he needs to operate on the air on MARS nets, which he tells them. They say, have your "person in charge" write us a letter that you are indeed in training and we'll do the mod for you (and charge you for it also). What a giant hassle and waste of time for everyone. He calls me asking me what he's supposed to do and was very frustrated with the whole process. I looked up the info on the internet and gave it to him and told him I would do it for him if he couldn't do it himself.

I don't even care if the person isn't a MARS member, I'll still give the info, especially if the person holds an Amateur license. Certainly it would be great if lots of amatuers would join MARS but they don't or can't. If a non-MARS station came up on a MARS net with a life or death situation from a big disaster (like a hurricane) asking for help, they would not be run off and they would be given assistance.

What you say is nice but there are cbers out there running amateur gear on cb. The system has to be like it is. Look at the 8k henry on ebay being sold by a cber. These are the rules of the land.

When i was in airforce mars my state mars director did have this info but i understand your frustration in that a new member has to have the mod to get on the frequencies, and without any documentation to prove he's a mars member no manufacturer will give him the info.

Airforce mars gives you a training callsign...before you get on the air...so it would be a simple matter to fax that to any of the amateur distributors and then they could give this person the mars mod for the rig he's bought. Or like myself they'd do the mod for you before they ship the rig...It's just so easy to obey the laws of the land.

That's just the way it is and i'd sure as hell not give the info to anyone not holding an amateur license.

Nuff said! --... ...-- WR8D;)

[WR8D]

I've got to add to my above post that in region two in airforce mars there are a few people directed to maintain this information. It's their duty and if they decide not to hold that position they pass it all along to the next guy that takes care of it. One email or a phone call and they have the mod for just about any rig out there...government surplus to the newest jap rigs. Plus any information on digital interfaces and how to interface them as well to rigs.

73, John WR8D:cool:

[w0is]

(or laughably, still use the CAP excuse)

I am in the War Emergency Radio Service. Could someone let me know how to get my rig on 112 MC?

:D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_emergency_radio_service

[KC4RAN]

I've got to add to my above post that in region two in airforce mars there are a few people directed to maintain this information. It's their duty and if they decide not to hold that position they pass it all along to the next guy that takes care of it. One email or a phone call and they have the mod for just about any rig out there...government surplus to the newest jap rigs. Plus any information on digital interfaces and how to interface them as well to rigs.

73, John WR8D:cool:
I wonder if those MARS officials have the same "issue" that LX has? If they're keeping the information, I would have to guess not.

LX, face it. WE didn't put MARS/CAP in the person's post - THEY DID. THEY represented their need for the information as related to MARS, THEY typed the letters.

Shouldn't your issue be with them?

[W6GQ]

I wonder if those MARS officials have the same "issue" that LX has? If they're keeping the information, I would have to guess not.

LX, face it. WE didn't put MARS/CAP in the person's post - THEY DID. THEY represented their need for the information as related to MARS, THEY typed the letters.

Shouldn't your issue be with them?

NO, the issue is, GIVE THEM THE MOD! Don't shag them to the director when they can get it HERE. Instead they get "beat up" about doing the mod. Like LX stated before, police the amateur bands, what someone does OUTSIDE of those bands is the problem of the FCC and the illegal operator. Is it not?

Why is it such a big deal to provide the information on QRZ? That is what this section is for.

It is not that I advocate illegal operations, that is an adult decision that person has to make. I just do not get why the information cannot be given without the "bashing"?

[AE6LX]

I don't have any issue with anyone...never said I did. I don't care if CBers are using ham equipment. I'm not the CB police and I'm not really concerned with what equipment a CBer is using as long as they stay in their band. I suspect that is probably the same attitude most hams have. If they want to call it the "MARS mod", the "MARS/CAP mod", the "extended TX/RX" mod, the "I'm going to FUBAR my radio mod", I really don't care. If I have the info, I'll give it out. If I don't have it, I won't direct them to angency that I don't have any involvement with hoping that they'll just go away.

[KC4RAN]

NO, the issue is, GIVE THEM THE MOD! Don't shag them to the director when they can get it HERE. Instead they get "beat up" about doing the mod. Like LX stated before, police the amateur bands, what someone does OUTSIDE of those bands is the problem of the FCC and the illegal operator. Is it not?

Why is it such a big deal to provide the information on QRZ? That is what this section is for.

It is not that I advocate illegal operations, that is an adult decision that person has to make. I just do not get why the information cannot be given without the "bashing"?

If someone decides that they are choosing not to give out the information because they suspect (as is the case the vast majority of the time) that the person might not actually have a legitimate need for the info... that they might be asking for 'other' reasons than have been stated (i.e. MARS), what would you like us to do?:

1) Say "no" - just completely refuse to give the person any information?

or

2) Point them towards the leadership of the organization they have claimed they need the information for?



Whether or not you like it, there are people who are just simply not going to freely give out this information. You can cry, kick, scream, and bawl to your heart's content, but it's not going to change. What's hilarious is that now we have someone who appears to be a legitimate user - and possibly official - of that exact service that so many of these people 'claim' they need this information for... and they're complaining that they're having to give this information.


You can't seriously tell me that these people who aren't actually affiliated with MARS are calling MARS directors, asking for the mod info? And if they are, and if the MARS director thinks like you do, why aren't they giving out the exact same information that you're demanding that we do?!?

[KC4RAN]

I don't have any issue with anyone...never said I did. I don't care if CBers are using ham equipment. I'm not the CB police and I'm not really concerned with what equipment a CBer is using as long as they stay in their band. I suspect that is probably the same attitude most hams have. If they want to call it the "MARS mod", the "MARS/CAP mod", the "extended TX/RX" mod, the "I'm going to FUBAR my radio mod", I really don't care. If I have the info, I'll give it out. If I don't have it, I won't direct them to angency that I don't have any involvement with hoping that they'll just go away.


THEN DO THAT!!

So why exactly are you upset that people who claim they need a mod "for MARS" are being directed "to their MARS leadership"? Would you rather we develop some mindreading abilities and somehow 'know' that they aren't really affiliated with MARS, thus saving you the heartache of answering the questions?


Your complaint is that people aren't just giving out the mod information freely. Too bad, that's not going to change. Certain manufacturers don't do it either... are you calling them demanding they provide it freely? If not, why not?

[AE6LX]

and they're complaining that they're having to give this information.

You keep saying this and I keep refuting you. I don't know how to say it any clearer: I will give out the info if asked, and I don't have a problem do it.

Would you rather we develop some mindreading abilities and somehow 'know' that they aren't really affiliated with MARS, thus saving you the heartache of answering the questions?

No, I would rather that you assume that your fellow person is not always up to something sinister just because they ask a question. I would rather that if you don't want to give out information that you refrain from typing all together, especially if the advice being given is wrong. I would rather that the amateur community does not run off people that are interested in radio that might just need a little guidance to point them in the right direction. The next person that is run off because they want to use a ham rig on CB might have been the next person that was watching ham radio on the sidelines and trying to see if he wanted to learn more and get his ham ticket but changed their mind because the first ham they had contact treated him like Al Queda instead of like his neighbor.

If you ask me how to tie a noose in a rope, should I assume that the reason you're asking is because you want to hang someone? If you ask me to teach you how to shoot a Glock handgun, should I direct you to the police since that's the only "legitimate" reason for wanting to know how to shoot a gun designed to kill people? If you ask me how to make a martini, should I direct you to Alcoholics Anonymous becuase you might be a drunk? If you ask me how to play poker, should I withhold that becuase you might use the info to hold an illegal poker party at your house? Do you treat everyday people like this? If not, why does it seem OK to treat "radio people" like this? Does it make you feel good to give out this type of advice and run people off from ham radio? Because that is exactly what you're doing when you respond like this.

[KC4RAN]

But that wasn't an option you were given. Again the options are:


1) Say "no" - just completely refuse to give the person any information?

or

2) Point them towards the leadership of the organization they have claimed they need the information for?


You're not going to convince people to give out this information, and I notice you didn't say whether you have contacted other organizations and manufacturers that follow the exact same policy. So have you?


Do you need me to look up the contact info for FlexRadio and post it so you can call them and demand that they freely publish mod info for their radios?

[AE6LX]

Just because those are the only two options YOU say there are, doesn't make it so.

You're not going to convince people to give out this information, and I notice you didn't say whether you have contacted other organizations and manufacturers that follow the exact same policy. So have you?

Do you need me to look up the contact info for FlexRadio and post it so you can call them and demand that they freely publish mod info for their radios?

I never said I was trying to convince people to give out info they didn't want to give out. My position is either give out the info, tell them to contact the manufacturer, or shut up. You notice I didn't say..blah blah blah...because that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

BTW, this is ALSO off topic, but the way you get the FlexRadio mod is to call FlexRadio. They send you a software patch with a password that is hashed against your callsign (I think it's hashed, anyway). I wouldn't suggest that a MARS op use FlexRadio as their only rig because you will have a hell of a time getting it to work with the AMTOR ARQ and PACTOR ARQ modes that are needed for MARS traffic.

See there, you ask a question...even a smart-ass one and I give an answer. I didn't have to demand that FlexRadio do anything.

[KC4RAN]

Just because those are the only two options YOU say there are, doesn't make it so.


Those are the two options you have with me. I suspect there are many more who believe similarly. I guess you would rather that someone who says they need the info for MARS be ignored - from your "or shut up" comment, rather than point them towards someone who will give legitimate MARS people some information.

I guess that's your call. I guess I would be silly to actually point someone who needs MARS info to a MARS official, and you would rather I ignore them and refuse to post a reply.

That's so much clearer now. Thanks. I guess.

[AE6LX]

.............

[AE6LX]

I guess you would rather that someone who says they need the info for MARS be ignored

Yes. I would rather they be ignored by you and others that have the same, pharisaical attitude. Thank you for finally getting it: You do less damage to the amateur radio hobby by being silent than by playing Ham Police. You don't have to agree with me on this; I don't care.

I guess that's your call. I guess I would be silly to actually point someone who needs MARS info to a MARS official

No, you wouldn't just be silly; you would be either illiterate or indignant, especially after I posted the link from the navymars website that instructed otherwise.

How about this: YOU join MARS and then we and others will all be more willing to heed any advice that you have to give as it relates to MARS.

[W6GQ]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/mars-mod










Thank you, I'll be here all week! :D

[WA9SVD]

I am in the War Emergency Radio Service. Could someone let me know how to get my rig on 112 MC?

:D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_emergency_radio_service

Wasn't there an ARC/5 that would do the trick?:rolleyes:
Or look up a few QST articles from 1939 on. The QST Archive is on the ARRL website.

[w9sfa]

After reading just a single thread, I remembered why I don't come to this forum. It's still overflowing with whiny, argumentative, judgmental, holier-than-thou crybabies.

It's sad how some people's arrogance, ignorance and "power trip" attitude can destroy an otherwise great forum. I hope they overcome the inferiority complex that the attitude problem stems from.

For the record, I've been a ham for over a decade now and I modify all my radios to transmit everywhere the unit is possibly capable of. Why? Because I can. I just can't transmit is certain places, and I don't.

Ham radio is designed to be primarily self-regulated and I certainly don't need some fellow radio operator flexing some imaginary muscle over me while trying to be the Ham Radio Police. If you don't like TX-expanded radios, don't mod yours and don't buy mine.

:rolleyes:

[KC4RAN]

After reading just a single thread, I remembered why I don't come to this forum. It's still overflowing with whiny, argumentative, judgmental, holier-than-thou crybabies.

It's sad how some people's arrogance, ignorance and "power trip" attitude can destroy an otherwise great forum. I hope they overcome the inferiority complex that the attitude problem stems from.

For the record, I've been a ham for over a decade now and I modify all my radios to transmit everywhere the unit is possibly capable of. Why? Because I can. I just can't transmit is certain places, and I don't.

Ham radio is designed to be primarily self-regulated and I certainly don't need some fellow radio operator flexing some imaginary muscle over me while trying to be the Ham Radio Police. If you don't like TX-expanded radios, don't mod yours and don't buy mine.

:rolleyes:

You don't want anyone telling you that you can't expand your TX. We don't want anyone telling us we must give the information when asked for it.

If they ask about MARS, I'm pointing them towards a MARS official. If MARS isn't the real reason they want the info, then that's up to the MARS official to determine. Or they can contact the manufacturer of the radio.

Either way, demanding that I give the info is *#*$ing in the wind... not gonna happen.

[W6GQ]

You don't want anyone telling you that you can't expand your TX. We don't want anyone telling us we must give the information when asked for it.

If they ask about MARS, I'm pointing them towards a MARS official. If MARS isn't the real reason they want the info, then that's up to the MARS official to determine. Or they can contact the manufacturer of the radio.

Either way, demanding that I give the info is *#*$ing in the wind... not gonna happen.

So, if they ask for a MARS mod you believe they should be directed to a MARS director, that is fine by me. Now, if the same person posted a question in this section asking for the modification to open the tx and rx of their radio, would you provide it? They are not asking for a MARS mod, just how to open up their radio for tx and rx.

My point is, if you do not think they should get that information, THEN DO NOT REPLY AT ALL in THIS section. QRZ has this section for the information, not to debate it. You said above you believe there are many more that feel the same way, do not provide the info.

Well here are 2 options neither you nor LX considered;

1. Protest to Fred that the Modification section of the forum be removed and all modifications from the QRZ database be removed.

2. Protest the asking of each person in the Talks and Opinions section, not in the Modification section that is here for the EXACT reason of PROVIDING the information.

[KC4RAN]

So, if they ask for a MARS mod you believe they should be directed to a MARS director, that is fine by me.

Glad to see you've changed your position on this matter. From your first post:

"Shagging" them off to the MARS director is defeating the purpose of this forum with the Radio Modification section.



Now, if the same person posted a question in this section asking for the modification to open the tx and rx of their radio, would you provide it? They are not asking for a MARS mod, just how to open up their radio for tx and rx.

Most of the time, the question is asked "Why do you need it?". You may not see it as a valid question, but many of us do. And fortunately, Fred has not banned us for asking this question instead of "shutting up", so it must be OK.

After they are asked this question, if it wasn't in the original request (i.e. MARS mod), then many times the same 'reason' comes back... "MARS". Of course, as has been pointed out, it is not a legitimate MARS user, but that doesn't matter - it's the excuse they've chosen to use.

At that point, as you have pointed out, it is appropriate to send them to the leadership of MARS. Perhaps you will discuss this with LX and change his mind?


My point is, if you do not think they should get that information, THEN DO NOT REPLY AT ALL in THIS section. QRZ has this section for the information, not to debate it. You said above you believe there are many more that feel the same way, do not provide the info.

They say they need it, we ask why, they usually say MARS, we point them in the direction of MARS. I'm not seeing a problem here, in spite of your "don't reply" admonition, and I don't think Fred is either. Not too many posts getting locked on this topic.


Well here are 2 options neither you nor LX considered;

1. Protest to Fred that the Modification section of the forum be removed and all modifications from the QRZ database be removed.

Not needed. Not all the mods posted cause these types of disagreements.


2. Protest the asking of each person in the Talks and Opinions section, not in the Modification section that is here for the EXACT reason of PROVIDING the information.

Huh? There are an unlimited number of mods, but only a very few are going to bring up this type of discussion. Perhaps we should go with option 3:

3. Protest to Fred to prohibit users from asking any questions related to expanding the TX range of radios.

No, that's not needed either - even though people with legitimate needs for expanded TX - or those that just want to do it - can find the information. The forum is just fine the way it is. The major sticking point LX had in the beginning is that people were being directed to MARS leadership. Since it's been pointed out that most of the time, the "reasoning" being presented for the need for expanded TX is "MARS", I think we all now agree that one reasonable course of action is to point them to their MARS leadership.

The one we don't agree on is that you think the information should either be provided or nothing should be said. I don't agree, and we'll have to agree to disagree... and until Fred says otherwise, you will have to agree to be unhappy with the situation, because I believe people will continue to ask "why do you need it".

Of course, maybe you will petition Fred to prohibit us from asking "why", and maybe he'll agree - who knows?

[W6GQ]

Nope, not interested in a petition, I will continue to provide the info without asking why and you can continue to ask why, both seem acceptable since nothing has been said about either way by the forum owner or admins, moderators.

Maybe though, just maybe we can do like you said, agree to disagree and actually talk on the air.

:D

Glad to see you've changed your position on this matter. From your first post:




Most of the time, the question is asked "Why do you need it?". You may not see it as a valid question, but many of us do. And fortunately, Fred has not banned us for asking this question instead of "shutting up", so it must be OK.

After they are asked this question, if it wasn't in the original request (i.e. MARS mod), then many times the same 'reason' comes back... "MARS". Of course, as has been pointed out, it is not a legitimate MARS user, but that doesn't matter - it's the excuse they've chosen to use.

At that point, as you have pointed out, it is appropriate to send them to the leadership of MARS. Perhaps you will discuss this with LX and change his mind?


They say they need it, we ask why, they usually say MARS, we point them in the direction of MARS. I'm not seeing a problem here, in spite of your "don't reply" admonition, and I don't think Fred is either. Not too many posts getting locked on this topic.


Not needed. Not all the mods posted cause these types of disagreements.



Huh? There are an unlimited number of mods, but only a very few are going to bring up this type of discussion. Perhaps we should go with option 3:

3. Protest to Fred to prohibit users from asking any questions related to expanding the TX range of radios.

No, that's not needed either - even though people with legitimate needs for expanded TX - or those that just want to do it - can find the information. The forum is just fine the way it is. The major sticking point LX had in the beginning is that people were being directed to MARS leadership. Since it's been pointed out that most of the time, the "reasoning" being presented for the need for expanded TX is "MARS", I think we all now agree that one reasonable course of action is to point them to their MARS leadership.

The one we don't agree on is that you think the information should either be provided or nothing should be said. I don't agree, and we'll have to agree to disagree... and until Fred says otherwise, you will have to agree to be unhappy with the situation, because I believe people will continue to ask "why do you need it".

Of course, maybe you will petition Fred to prohibit us from asking "why", and maybe he'll agree - who knows?

[WA9SVD]

So, if they ask for a MARS mod you believe they should be directed to a MARS director, that is fine by me. Now, if the same person posted a question in this section asking for the modification to open the tx and rx of their radio, would you provide it? They are not asking for a MARS mod, just how to open up their radio for tx and rx.

My point is, if you do not think they should get that information, THEN DO NOT REPLY AT ALL in THIS section. .


So you now have the authority to dictate who responds to an inquiry?

Other than MARS, most requests are NOT for legitimate reasons.

And few radios now even HAVE a "receive" expansion mod, as they already cover all the frequencies on which they are capable of receiving, far, FAR beyond their transmit capability or transmit design..

[WR8D]

After reading just a single thread, I remembered why I don't come to this forum. It's still overflowing with whiny, argumentative, judgmental, holier-than-thou crybabies.

It's sad how some people's arrogance, ignorance and "power trip" attitude can destroy an otherwise great forum. I hope they overcome the inferiority complex that the attitude problem stems from.

For the record, I've been a ham for over a decade now and I modify all my radios to transmit everywhere the unit is possibly capable of. Why? Because I can. I just can't transmit is certain places, and I don't.

Ham radio is designed to be primarily self-regulated and I certainly don't need some fellow radio operator flexing some imaginary muscle over me while trying to be the Ham Radio Police. If you don't like TX-expanded radios, don't mod yours and don't buy mine.

:rolleyes:

Ham radio is designed to be primarily "self-regulated"...well the "selfs" you call the ham radio police as in all of us amateurs, are the ones that do the "self regulating" you're talking about.

Why any amateur other than a mars member needs expanded tx...."cb freebanding feature" is beyond most of us.

Nuff said! WR8D Nope, i didn't buy it i earned it! :rolleyes:

[W6GQ]

Ham radio is designed to be primarily "self-regulated"...well the "selfs" you call the ham radio police as in all of us amateurs, are the ones that do the "self regulating" you're talking about.

Why any amateur other than a mars member needs expanded tx...."cb freebanding feature" is beyond most of us.

Nuff said! WR8D Nope, i didn't buy it i earned it! :rolleyes:

Thats right, self regulate the ham bands, not outside of those bands, thats not "your jurisdiction", even like you say the so called "freeband" is not your concern, it is not an amateur band.

Nuff said!

[KC4RAN]

Thats right, self regulate the ham bands, not outside of those bands, thats not "your jurisdiction", even like you say the so called "freeband" is not your concern, it is not an amateur band.

Nuff said!
When the 'freebanders' started encroaching on 10 meters, that argument went out the window. All bad operators reflect badly on amateur radio, because we get blamed for it. Interference on your TV? Must be that ham with his giant 'antenna' down the street. Noise on your phone? That damned ham. Cussing on your baby monitor? Stupid hams.

Your argument is old and toothless.

[W6GQ]

When the 'freebanders' started encroaching on 10 meters, that argument went out the window. All bad operators reflect badly on amateur radio, because we get blamed for it. Interference on your TV? Must be that ham with his giant 'antenna' down the street. Noise on your phone? That damned ham. Cussing on your baby monitor? Stupid hams.

Your argument is old and toothless.

As is your argument, as bad as it may "make us look" it still is not the amateur bands so you have no teeth to bite into it. Show me in part 97 of the amateur radio section where it says you should "police outside of the amateur band" because the mods "make us look bad"? Can you say vigilante?

Oh but you do not want to hear that.

Listen, I agree with you guys, your just looking for the argument.

If an adult cannot make the right choice and stay in band then that is the problem of that particular adult, just do not pile everyone else on the bad operator list because they asked for the information.

I want to install Nitrous Oxide on my Trans Am, it is illegal to use on the street, that does not mean I can't ask how to install it. What I do afterwards is my choice and my risk if I use it illegally.

I will provide the modifications on this website if I know the information or can provide the link, I will continue to do so until Fred tells me not to. This is afterall, the Radio Mods, Tips and Secrets section.

I am done with this thread, anything further from you or anyone else is just a form of harrassment and trying to continue an argument.

[KA1MDA]

"Why any amateur other than a mars member needs expanded tx"

I can think of a reason- In the early 90's, (before the days of the WWW) I bought an Icom IC-W2A dual band HT. It was capable of full duplex operation - perfect for trying out the new FM satellites! Only problem was, the sat's received in the 435 Mhz range, and the W2A would not transmit below 440 Mhz.

I tried going thru Icom and a few dealers to get the TX mod, but none of them would give me the info without a MARS license. There was no way to mod the radio just to transmit in the 430-450 ham band- it was an all (transmit anywhere) or nothing mod.

I ended up writing a review about the radio for 73 Magazine a few months after buying the W2A, and mentioned it's inability to TX in the 435 Mhz FM sat sub-band as one of the radio's negative points. A few weeks after that issue of 73 was published, a kind ham sent me a letter which included the procedure for the MARS/CAP mod.

I performed the mod, and used the W2A to work the FM satellites. I had many enjoyable sat QSO's with that radio, and never used it to transmit out of the ham bands.

So sometimes, there are legitimate reasons to perform TX mods on some ham gear.

73, de Tom, KA1MDA
www.ka1mda.org

[w7dtg]

Can anyone tell me how to modify my TRC-448 for 10M ?

[KC4RAN]

I keep seeing people saying "contact your MARS director, he will have the info you need" as advice. That is lousy advice and it needs to stop, IMO.

Post in need of your attention:

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=180458

Saying he needs MARS/CAP mod info for a radio. This guy in your MARS unit?

[kb3rdr]

§97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.

No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.

§97.405 Station in distress.

(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a), of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.



"Why any amateur other than a mars member needs expanded tx"

I can think of a reason- In the early 90's, (before the days of the WWW) I bought an Icom IC-W2A dual band HT. It was capable of full duplex operation - perfect for trying out the new FM satellites! Only problem was, the sat's received in the 435 Mhz range, and the W2A would not transmit below 440 Mhz.

I tried going thru Icom and a few dealers to get the TX mod, but none of them would give me the info without a MARS license. There was no way to mod the radio just to transmit in the 430-450 ham band- it was an all (transmit anywhere) or nothing mod.

I ended up writing a review about the radio for 73 Magazine a few months after buying the W2A, and mentioned it's inability to TX in the 435 Mhz FM sat sub-band as one of the radio's negative points. A few weeks after that issue of 73 was published, a kind ham sent me a letter which included the procedure for the MARS/CAP mod.

I performed the mod, and used the W2A to work the FM satellites. I had many enjoyable sat QSO's with that radio, and never used it to transmit out of the ham bands.

So sometimes, there are legitimate reasons to perform TX mods on some ham gear.

73, de Tom, KA1MDA
www.ka1mda.org (http://www.ka1mda.org)