Online Trading

[na4it]

Just a few tips for the newbes (and oldies):

(1) Post what you have and include an ACTUAL picture of the item, not one off the web somewhere.

(2) Tell the truth...if it's junk, say so. If is pristine and collectable, say so.

(3) Specify how you want to be paid and if you or the buyer is responsible for the shipping. Include your zip code so they can figure for the shipping.

(4) NEVER ship the item until payment has been received! Then, put the funds in safe keeping until at least 3 days after the buyer has received his goods. Be a nice guy, give him time to tell you something is wrong!

(5) Always use a shipping service that you can track. WARNING...USPS is notorious for waiting until up to a week after the item is delivered to post that it has been delieved! (We send our son in FL cookies and he has them eaten before we ever know he got them!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif E-mail the tracking number to the buyer the same day you ship the item. If the item is over the monetary limit of automatic insurance, insure the item! Insist on it!

(6) Refund the money if need be, but only after you have received the goods back. If it is a shipping problem, work together for a solution!

(7) Post feedback. Good and bad. Tell nothing but the truth.

(8) Communicate, communicate, communicate! E-mail is quick and easy! Send several!
"I have send your MO today".
"I have received your MO today and am shipping your package".
"Here is the tracking number..."
"Have received the item in good condition."

(9) If you are someone who likes ripping people off, here is food for thought... YOU CAN BE CAUGHT AND PROSECUTED!!

Using what God gave us for minds, amateur radio operators can prove to the world that we are trustworthy and truthful in ALL our dealings!

COD can be a better option for both parties. The item gets shipped sooner, and both parties are protected this way. If the buyer sends money first, he is trusting the seller for the total price of the item - perhaps several hundred dollars? With COD the seller is only trusting the the buyer to the amount of shipping - only a few bucks.... and the buyer is at least assured something was shipped.

What has worked for me in several purchases and sells, is both of us just ship the and money same day. We're both trusting each other and it's worked - so far.

If the seller is so un-trusting, he wants my money in hand before he even thinks of shipping, I'm kinda concerned WHY he is so un-trusting - is it because he ripps folks off and expects to be repped off himself?

Just some thoughts to show trust must work both ways to some extent.

Ken H>
K9FV

[W7RJR]

Good advice!

If I may add a few caveats:

Be careful about posting negative feedback on Ebay. While posting honest feedback benefits everyone it can also result in retaliatory negative feedback. This kind of undeserved feedback can not be easily removed.

Some of the online payment methods may impose fees upon the buyer instead of the seller. This can result in trading problems.

Be honest about your description of equipment for sale.

Materials for good packing do not always come cheap. If you don't have adequate materials you will have to purchase them. Make sure you add this cost to your shipping, if need be.

Protect both yourself and the other party by insuring the parcel. Get a tracking number and email it to the buyer.

Stand behind what you are selling. Be willing to negotiate any problems that might arise. Make every effort to resolve problems before submitting feedback.

73 W7RJR

[n4sl]

And DON'T ship Fed-Ex Ground! It is not shipped by FedEx but a company that purchased the rights to use the name. They are slow, their tracking is terrible and you can't get a straight answer from them on the phone (because they really don't know). I've shipped three items this way with identical results each time.

73, Steve N4SL

[va3ay]

Email transfers are best for me. #Use your online banking software. #Email cash to a person and their email address along with password-phrase. #They get three chances to get that right. #It will then deposit to the account number/bank they specify. #All the paperwork is on file in your accouny history. #The person gets the cash in seconds.

de Bill, VA3AY

[n5xm]

Great ideas...I would add how important it is to carefully parse the ads. What is not said can be more critical than what IS said. I prefer buying gear from experienced, knowledgable Hams, and I want to buy the best I can afford.

I think people are basically honest. I've bought 15 HF rigs in this manner, and am not a dealer type, I just love radios, and I still have 9 of them, and the point I am making is that if you are very careful, and talk to people in person, as in on the telephone, and listen to what they say and how they say it, you can be very successful buying used equipment. I would also recommend buying again from people who have proven their honesty and judgement to you over time. Deal with people you get to know a little bit, and I think you will #be happier, and make some long term friends as well, if that is important to you.

I think two things are really important, namely patience and tenacity. I look at hundreds and hundreds of ads before I make my mind up. You need to think critically about how much you want to spend, and know exactly what you are looking for. After a while, you will be able to recognize immediately when you see something you would be interested in.

If the ad is well-written, no picture is necessacary. Besides, you can ask those kinds of questions via e-mail or telephone. Besides, you don't really know if a picture is truly of the radio for sale, or just a generic picture. Furthermore, the resolution of pictures on the Internet is only fair, and I don't think even digital cameras do proper justice to how a radio looks unless it is in awful shape. If you have bench and restoration skills, everything changes.

[kf6xa]

There are many good suggestions here. #I have a couple more:

On auction sales, check the feedback of buyer and seller. Use caution unless their positive count is over 20 or so. They may be honest, but inexperienced regarding auction protocol and ALSO about effective packing. Be very careful if there are any negative comments. Also on auction sales, it's nice when the seller provides the approximate weight as well as his zip. Shipping nowadays is getting ridiculous, and it can cost $12 to ship 5 pounds cross-country, which makes heavy, inexpensive items bad subjects for buying this way.

On non-auction sites like QTH, always check the announcement section. #Query Google for the other guy's callsign to see if you find any bad news about him. Don't be afraid to ask for a reference, particularly if it's an expensive item. An honest person won't mind.

Regarding FedEx ground: I've used them a few times with no trouble, and they're usually 20-30% less than UPS.

[K8YS]

Pet Peeve - "MINT".... what? they MINTED that radio or that antenna at a MINT? Franklin Mint perhaps?

ebay Feed back can be very deceptive!

Echo - never ship "Fed-Ex GROUND". I have never had a problem with the good old USPS and Priority Mail is reasonable, and most important, trackable.

UPS is my LAST CHOICE, bad/hard feeling over the 220MHz grab and they cannot control internal theft! If you do not think they have a problem, ask them if you can send a firearm "Brown".

Some sellers get offened when you ask for "references", if they get offened, they have a reason why they do not want you asking questions.

The majority of sellers are honest, but there are always exceptions.

Pay the extra for insurance and tracking, it is cheap insurance.

Remember that third party shipping agents (Mail Boxes Etc) are the insured party, so if you ship thru them and the item is lost or broken, MBE makes the claim and gets the check, the you need to deal with MBE.

[k7unz]

One other suggestion for you buyers........ask questions! #Often, what a seller does not say is just as important as what they do say. #A recent example on e-bay......seller had a nice looking Century 21 up for auction. #In the description he mentioned a couple of times how good the receive was on the unit, and how nice it looked. #I e-mailed him, and asked about the transmit function, and told him I was a serious buyer (I was...). #No reply was every received, although the seller had #a week to do it. #The "no reply" was in fact the answer to my question! #No, I did not place a bid, and the item went for a lot less than I would have been willing to pay. #Hope the buyer liked their new "receiver."

I'm sorry to say that this was not an isolated example. #Ask questions BEFORE you place a bid!! #And remember, the seller is not necessarily a ham, even if they use some of the right jargon in the description.

I have had many good experiences with e-bay sellers, and I guess I'm fortunate in that respect. #But be cautious......you have no idea who you are dealing with on this stuff. #

73 to all and have a Happy Holiday Season!

Jim/k7unz

[kc2ftn]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RAD1OMAN @ Dec. 12 2002,17:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pet Peeve - "MINT".... what? they MINTED that radio or that antenna at a MINT? Franklin Mint perhaps?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree completely! I think the term 'Mint' is usued wayyyy too loosely on internet auction sites. I've seen ads that say something like, "MINT condition...except there is a small dent in the upper right corner, one digit is non-functioning on the display, and the meter light needs to be replaced. Other than that, unit is in MINT condition." In my book, if an item is 'Mint', then it is as NEW, and basically unused.

[n5xm]

I meant to make a few comments about shipping...

I've been very frustrated by UPS. They bounced a Kenwood 830, destroying the VFO module, and indenting all the controls on the inside of the inside box. They wanted to treat it trivially, but I forced the issue, and they sent a regional rep to check my claim out. The key to the claim was that the radio was superbly packed. They could not claim the damage was the result of bad packing. I would not let them repair the rig, as I was convinced if it fell far enough to ruin the VFO, there was likely other damage that would show up over time, like broken solder joints, or discrete component problems. I watched the rep enter into his laptop that the claim was valid, and accepted by UPS. It took me 15 calls, lies that the "check was to be mailed that day", arrogant men and women who could care less about my loss. The radio was insured for 400.00, and they wanted to find the cheapest example on the Internet, and pay me that, which I refused. Finally, I was able to hook up with a super nice, experienced female supervisor who finally understood what I told her, and the check was there in 4 days.

I prefer USPS, as you can talk to a human being in your town, not Arctic City, North Dakota. I can watch them weigh my box, and my experience is that the boxes USPS ships are taken at least as well cared of as the clowns at UPS. You also can get Saturday delivery, and it usually takes about half the time of UPS. Nothing is foolproof. If I have to accept something from UPS, I will, but I will not spend my money with them.

[W5KRM]

Having character and ethics to start with eliminates the need for all the "checks and balances".

They aren't necessary if a person is honest. Sad that more individuals are not so "honest" and we have to constantly repost information like this.

[n8emr]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KenH @ Dec. 12 2002,12:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">COD can be a better option for both parties. #The item gets shipped sooner, and both parties are protected this way. #If the buyer sends money first, he is trusting the seller for the total price of the item - perhaps several hundred dollars? #With COD the seller is only trusting the the buyer to the amount of shipping - only a few bucks.... and the buyer is at least assured something was shipped.

What has worked for me in several purchases and sells, is both of us just ship the and money same day. #We're both trusting each other and it's worked - so far.

If the seller is so un-trusting, he wants my money in hand before he even thinks of shipping, I'm kinda concerned WHY he is so un-trusting - is it because he ripps folks off and expects to be repped off himself?

Just some thoughts to show trust must work both ways to some extent.

Ken H>
K9FV[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
COD is a poor choice for both buyer and seller.

As a seller, I have no choice over how you pay. You can pay UPS/USPS/FEDEX with a bad check, forged money order. Depending on how the shipper handles the money it might be a week before you get they money to even deposit it. then several days to find out its bad.

As a buyer I have no control over what you send me. I could have just paid hundreds of dollars for a box of parts or a brick.

[6meterfm]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DocRF @ Dec. 13 2002,01:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">First, don't buy anything that the seller won't warrant for a week, and don't ever sell without a warranty. #Seriously, if you think that rig might fail in a week, and you don't mention this in your listing then you are committing "failure to disclose known condition" which is punishable by fines. #If you don't think it's likely to fail in a week, then you're taking no risk by warranting it. #I always warrant what I sell, with the caveat that the prospective buyer has to pay shipping back to me.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There can be problems with both buyers and sellers but I wanted to post one more concern.
Unfortunately, while it's easy to say "warrant it for a week if you trust your equipment", this doesn't always benefit the seller. It seems that a large percentage of buyers today want to open up or modify a piece of equipment the moment they receive it. What then is to keep them after they've opened it and messed it up from going back to you and insisting it doesn't work or "had an existing problem". You have no control over that piece of equipment once it leaves your possession. It really goes back to truthfully describing what your selling in the first place.
Also on the shipping idea, you can run into situations with any of the "big three" shippers. I recently shipped a box to Texas
USPS parcel post (granted it wasn't priority) which they quote as "5 TO 7 days". It took three weeks to arrive at the buyers residence. A rep from the post office told me that even though they are shipping an item, they have absolutely NO liablity for it UNLESS you purchase insurance. And unfortunately, even without insurance, I have found the PRIORITY rates 50 - 60 % higher than Ups or FedEx. I've used FedEx ground to ship the last 12 packages I've sent and haven't had any problems with prompt delivery or tracking. I haven't used UPS at all anymore since FedEx is always around 20 - 30% cheaper. Thanks for letting me air a couple thoughts.

[k4vic]

On line auctions are based on two principles...1. That most people are basically honest in their description of an item and 2.that the seller and the buyer are both honest in their transactions. I won't be so naive as to say that this is always true, but for the most part it works.

I do not warranty anything that I sell on line. What I do though is tell you more in the description of the item about what's wrong with it than I do about what's right with it. I also invite questions about the item and respond promptly to any questions. Plus all listings that I make contain...THIS ITEM IS SOLD AS IS WITH NO WARRANTY OR RETURN OPTIONS....I've never had a complaint and nothing but satisfied buyers.

73, Vic K4VIC

[W4SFC]

I agree with checking feedback when purchasing from online auctions. However, feedback can be misleading. Many times I see sellers with fairly high feedback numbers and no derogatory ratings, further checking shows the feedback came from them "buying" not "selling", and many times buying small items. I try to only buy from someone who has a good history as a seller. I have found it worth while to check the "sellers other auctions". See to many ads, "no power supply, but works", and have seen a few where that same seller was selling a power supply separately (guess we are all stupid buyers). Most of all "know what you are buying". Buying equipment you are not familiar with can lead to problems, i.e a radio with out a power supply could cost you more then you wanted to spend. On one auction I asked a seller about power output, the radio was written up as excellent working condition with low hour tubes. My reply was "You will have to find that info out somewhere else". Needless to say my bid was not entered.

[ke2iv]

I've been both a buyer and a seller:

1) Caveat emptor (if you don't know what it means, look it up).

2) It's an auction of a USED item. #Don't expect a piece of new gear even if seller says: #"9+++", "Pristine", "Mint" etc.

3) It's an auction of a USED item, usually sold AS-IS. #Don't expect a WalMart return policy.

4) See numbers 1 through 3

[N5JOB]

You've got to be careful on e-Bay. #A big problem are the folks who buy radios at estate sales. #They don't know how to properly evaluate such equipment. #They could have a piece of gear, plug it in, see a light, and consider the item to be operating when it is NOT.

I had an IDIOT rip me off on a DX-302 once. #He described the item as MINT, operationally and cosmetically, in the box. #I paid him via PayPal, he gave me good feedback and THEN I got the item.

The radio was mint cosmetically, but did not work! #Since the item was an "ALL SALES FINAL" item I had to leave negative feedback.

The seller then gets very angry with me, cursing me in many rude and threatening e-mails. #I tried to calm him down, and then he admitted that he had not turned the radio on in 15 years! #How anyone can say a radio is MINT operationally when the radio had not been operated in 15 years is my guess.

I got ripped off. #I got cursed and threatened. He got the negative feedback.

I sold the radio the next week, advertised as "For repair or parts ONLY" and sold it for $29.00. #I had paid $110.00 for it from the scumbag.

Then you get some guys who change their mind on an item they buy from you, because they suddenly discover they can't spend the money. #Please be sure you can afford something before you buy!

I never warrant anything I sell on e-Bay, but my descriptions are 100% accurate and I'm open to e-mail or telephone contact.

[KB1HVS]

Well I just got a FT101E off ebay. The only thing wrong with it so far is it has very low receive. Its fixable but the auction ad said it was in good working order. The seller admitted via email after the sale that every thing was ok except the audio seemed low. That piece of information was not included in his auction ad. I never would have bid $320.00 for it if I had known it had such a problem. It needs a rf board which is an easy fix but its gonna add more to the price of what I already shelled out. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[kg4kkn]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n4sl @ Dec. 12 2002,13:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And DON'T ship Fed-Ex Ground! It is not shipped by FedEx but a company that purchased the rights to use the name. They are slow, their tracking is terrible and you can't get a straight answer from them on the phone (because they really don't know). I've shipped three items this way with identical results each time.

73, Steve N4SL[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Not that it matters a whole lot, but FedEx Ground is owned by FedEx. #They purchased Roadway Trucking a few years back and renamed it FedEx Ground. #It is still basically a trucking company and they are still working on getting them up to FedEx's air standards. #

Anyone who has worked at the Post Awful or UPS can tell you package abuse happens. #The only sure and safe way to ship something is to carry it yourself and even that does not always work.

73, Patrick

[MNham]

Warranties from sellers on ebay & classifieds? Now that would be interesting! I wouldn't dream of offering a warranty on anything sold through ebay, or any other means for that matter. Once an item leaves my possession, I have no control over what you do to it and I certainly don't want it back.
There are still people out there who don't know a positive terminal from the negative. I learned this the hard way years ago when I sold my Drake twins on an 80m net. I was flimflamed by a fellow who a lot of hams still look up to, but that's another story.
I suggest if you desire a warranty, you should be buying from a dealer who advertises in one of the ham rags, not ebay or online classifieds.

Ebay feedback; I'm one of those who strongly agrees that this system is seriously flawed, but debating it here would be opening a can of worms. A search of Google groups on this subject will enlighten you.

I'm always amused when someone states "warranty card included" in their auctions & ads. So what? Believe me, a warranty card is absolutely useless unless you have the original dated sales receipt. But there are many hams who use this pitch, and many who still swallow the hook! The warranty card is touted almost as much as the proverbial "original box".

I've never had much trouble moving my gear on ebay as I don't sell it unless it's fully working. Only one ham has slickered me in a transaction there, a K7 who pulls a scheme on shipping charges (and who is probably still doing it to this day).

It's a real shame as I never thought I'd say this about hams, but I gave up buying used years ago. I now wait until I can afford new.

[KD7KOY]

I love..
"I got it at an estate sale."

Somehow this brings an image of an old guy slumped over his microphone and people picking over his belongings.
I also wonder if the guy was electrocuted and the rig is waiting for it's next victim.
Morbid http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Or
"I have'nt plugged it in."
Like, he wants YOU to electrocute yourself......

Or: "I don't know what this is..(but I bought it anyway.)" I always look in their others auctions to see if they bought a WW2 landmine that they did'nt know "what it is" that Uncle Clyde brought back from the war.

And my all time favorite (and yours..).
When you see "I have'nt tested this radio." and you see a call sign as a seller.
Uh huh, sure, right, heck yes... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ke2iv]

What is interesting is how many commentators here ragged on eBay.

For ham gear I've had much less problems with dishonest trading there than I have on the want-ad websites including QRZ.com's.

Most eBay listing include photos and most of those are of the acutal equipment being offered. #It is amazing to me how many hams who post on the other websites seem to lack digital cameras!

I mean c'mon, you want me to spend a kilobuck on your used super-duper whatchamacallit whiz-bang rig and you don't have a picture to show me? #You can get a halfway decent digital camera for a $100 or so. #If you don't have one, borrow one! #And don't tell me you don't know how to upload the pics! #How the heck did you post the ad to begin with if you're so computer illiterate? #I no longer will even entertain purchasing from a want ad if the seller can't provide pictures. #

And then there is the guy who tells me it was working fine when he pulled it from service 3 months ago. #I get it and there is no drive power (this was a TS-830). #He plays dumb like "duh" and even via e-mail I can hear the feet shuffling like a schoolboy caught in the act of doing something wrong. #

Let's not ignore out and out fraud. #While eBay's fraud protection won't get you $ for $ but it better than nothing - which is what you get here and on the other sites. #Right now, right here on QRZ.com's want ads, there's a guy desperately seeking info on a seller who's gone south with his cash! #Lots of luck, OM.

And one final point. #As-is auctions are just what they mean. #To the fellow here who thinks that he can get his money back if things are not what he expects under some consumer protection law - fuggedaboutit. #Check out Article 1 of the Uniform Commercial Code applicable in 49 of the 50 states. #It covers sales by auction. #If I sell it AS-IS with no warranty then that's it - like it or not Mr. Buyer.

Again - caveat emptor. #If you want a liberal return policy, buy retail!

[KB9ZCW]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif i was recently looking for a kenwood dg-5 frequency counter for my ts-520se, so i thought what the heck and put an add in the wanted swapmeet. i was pleased to get a bite from a ham who's call i wont mention told me for $140.00 he had one that was mint and worked very well. he sent a pic of the one he said he was selling me and it looked very nice and i decided to buy it. when i got it it had big scuffs on the front outer face of it and scratched up cabinet and after about 15 minutes of use it would heat up and show spuratic frequency readings. i emailed him a bunch of times but he never replied. as i see it 99.9 percent of hams are very trustworthy people, but watch out for that .01 percent, i hope the guy reads this who sold me that frequency counter so he can see that there are decent people out here or i would be smearing his call and name all over this website. 73 kenneth

[na6m]

Even COD can cause you problems. Check out how this guy handled it:

http://www.remodern.com/caught.html

[ad5td]

I was just going to post the article about the mac user when I saw it as the last post in this thread. If only Hams could stick together like these mac users. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Only one person out of 68 transactions I have made on fleabay have been bad. Maybe I'm just lucky. I also have had no problem with UPS. USPS priority mail is way to much for anything over 1 pound. I do like the idea of getting the sellers call sign. Just makes sense.

CAVEAT EMPTOR
That's one to live by. I have only had one bad selling deal out of 120. I have been lucky. You really put yourself out on auctions and things like that when dealing with strangers.
Be careful and read carefully when buying over the internet in any fashion.

[N3HGB]

I can add some Ebay tips:
1. Know how much a new version of whatever it is you are buying costs! I can't imagine people paying over $100 for a used 2 meter rig when you can get a NEW ONE for maybe $120, but they do.
2. See #1.
3. See #1.

[na6m]

More SCAM activity being discussed here. The internet is a scary place...


http://www.geocities.com/scamvictimsunited/

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pet Peeve - "MINT".... what? they MINTED that radio or that antenna at a MINT? Franklin Mint perhaps?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think pennies or quarters, stacked high enough, would probably make a pretty good antenna. #THAT would be in mint condition, right?

Maybe I could use a candy cane on my HT for an antenna. #MINTY!

MENTOs Mints are advertised as giving you creative ideas. I bet a pack of Mentos would make a good UHF antenna if you ate a few first. If not, you would suddenly get a new and "fresh" idea for an antenna.

[W4KSR]

N3HGB touched on a point I should mention: I don't know how many times I see a radio as "new in the box" being sold for MORE than a radio I can order from my local ham outlet. Granted, you may have bought the radio a month ago, never used it, but now it's on sale discounted $50 less than what you paid for it.
Caveat emptor. I bought a radio off e-Bay. Had a picture, showing the outside of the radio was mint. It was totally butchered inside. I have put more sweat, and parts to get it to run right, and it still doesn't. Funny, I used to see all of this at hamfests before the Internet took off. At least on the overpriced radios I could always make a face, and say "What's it made of, gold?"

[K6VB]

I have been really lucky on eBay. I think generally, most folks are honest. Unfortunately, there are always unscrupulous individuals in every group trying to capitalize on the good nature of others.

For those that think they can get away with ripping-off others, beware - karma always come back with a very high interest rate, and is always collected in one way or another in life.

73,
Jim (K6VB)

[K0RFD]

Good suggestions. And in the honesty department, if your ad restricts hours of calling, don't sell it to somebody else who called outside of what you requested.

I respect people's privacy. If they say don't call before such and such a time, I don't call. I just called a guy, right at the time he said to call, ON THE MINUTE, and he said "I just sold it a half hour ago--you should have called earlier." I asked "then why did you say not to call before 8PM?"

I'm not gonna post the guy's callsign. This isn't a personal vendetta. If he wanted my money, he would have lived by his own rules; my money's still there for somebody more honest.

[K8YS]

I think that the best answer for dishonest sellers is "what goes 'round, comes 'round"...


I suggest that everyone reading this forum to join BADHAM on yahoo groups. If we all ban together we can foil these foulups.

[W4CGP]

I won't buy anything I can't see in person before I do. Granted, I've never bought anything through E-bay, or for that matter, any piece of used equipment online. I bought an Astron RS-70A and had a 30-minute phone conversation with the seller, and the next day, he had it at my house. In return, I paid him cash. I found out about the seller on a local repeater.

Now that's ham radio trade, and it works for me.

[N7JI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n4sl @ Dec. 12 2002,13:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And DON'T ship Fed-Ex Ground! It is not shipped by FedEx but a company that purchased the rights to use the name. They are slow, their tracking is terrible and you can't get a straight answer from them on the phone (because they really don't know). I've shipped three items this way with identical results each time.

73, Steve N4SL[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually, I've found that the service provided by FedEx Ground is about equal to that provided by UPS except that:

1) FedEx is about a day faster to the other coast
2) FedEx is about 25% less expensive to anywhere

FedEx purchased the assets (depots, trucks, and all) of RPS as a part of Caliber, which then became FedEx Ground (other parts of Caliber became other parts of the newer, bigger FedEx). Yes, it is a "separate" company, but it's owned by FedEx.

Scott N7JI

(not affiliated with UPS, FedEx, or USPS in any way)

[KE4MCL]

ok, lots of concerns and complaints but also a bit of whining...

i sell on ebay, user name re-tek. i've been selling since 1998 and also have done a bit of buying. i've been burned but then again you can get burned at a fest just the same. you buy the rig, take it home and it doesnt work. you drove "x" number of hours to the fest so what to do? a little common sense goes a long way...

lets address some of the complaints/concerns is read on the thread..

1) prices are too high!
dont bid. plain and simple. its high because the market is bearing that price. you may not think its worth that much but obviously someone does so therefore they bid.

2) dont buy from someone until you talk on the phone with them.
this is nice but some of us lead very busy lives or hate telephones. i am a central office technician in the largest residential serving office in the state of florida. we are responsible for 180,000 telephone lines. the last thing i want to answer is another phone when i get home. i do check my email several times a day and try to do my best to answer questions, even the ones that answer themselves if people would read the item description completely.

3) dont buy unless they are willing to warranty the item.
how does the seller know what conditions the radio will be used under and what kind of knowledge the person has? as a telephone tech i still run into people that are amazed that the telephone uses electricity. how they walk and chew gum amazes me. i handle estates of silent keys as a hobby. its a great way to pay for my expensive ham radio habbit. from first hand experience, some ham shacks are full of roaches and some are fit for the front cover of qst. you never know who or where your stuff is going. thats hard to warranty so at most i do a "will not be DOA" and let it ride with a very low starting bid and let the market dictate what they want to pay.

4) a ham say that they havent plugged it in?
yep. i wont plug in tube gear unless i know it was recently in service. electrolytics need to sometimes be "reformed" if the gear has been sitting for a long time. i dont have this kind of time. i state that it hasnt been plugged in and that it will probably need new caps. what about newer stuff? i just got a case of motorola mt500 radios. aprox 30 of them. these radios sell for $5-15 used. finding a good mt500 battery is unlikely unless i buy one which is probably more than half my case of old radios. therefore they go as is. untested. its sometimes not cost effective to mess with certain items if you're moving alot of gear.

5) payment issues and shipping issues...
ups= square box, contents broken if not WELL packed. read the fine print. they are sticklers on the shipping terms and will "conditions and terms" you right out of any liability.
usps= rounded box, contents ok if decently packed, pricey on heavy things
fed-ex.. i havent shipped with them. have received items from them and they dinged the hell out of a shipping container i bought.
c.o.d.=expensive and a hassle for both parties
paypal= buyer protection offered and convenient for all
check/money order= you have traceability but getting a money order traced through the post office is like getting a turtle to run

6) paying more on ebay than new from hro or aes?
i've seen this and cant make sense of this one.. i guess we dont all do our research before buying.

73
ke4mcl

[ki6lo]

I use Ebay regularly and I have only been what I would call 'ripped off' once for a very small amount (under $40). I might add the following to what has been stated so far. These would apply to auctions and person-to-preson swap ads.

1) Know what you are looking at. If you aren't aware of the specs of the item in question, do your homework. A 'good deal' can go sour very quickly if you don't get what you thought you were paying for.

2) Ask for a ACTUAL picture of the item being sold. A picture is worth a thousand words. Make sure it is a usuable pic. I have seen some that look like a food stain on a sheet rather than gear for sale.

3) Know what a common sense value is for the item being offerred. I have seen people get caught up in the final moments of an auction and pay 20-50% more than the item is actually worth. I once was watching an auction and saw the winner pay more for the item than it cost brand spanking new.

4) If using an auction service, check the sellers feedback or rating. This speaks alot for the user's trustworthyness. If there is little feedback (i.e. a new user) send the user an email and 'feel' them out if you are indeed interested in the item and not sure about the seller. Use common sense when interpreting ratings. A user with a 1000 positive and 3 negatives most likely is a safe bet. On the other hand, a user with a rating of 2 and no negatives may be just as safe. A rating of 10 good and 3 bad might cause a little more research before jumoing in the swap.

5) Ask questions FIRST. If there is any doubt about any facts, ask before bidding or making an offer. Save alot of stress and headaches for both parties. Watch for buzzwords in descriptions like "NEW" or "MINT". Verify condition with photo. I have seen NEW that had seen alot of use and MINT that looked like it had been taken out of service and given a good cleaning on the outside but when inspected inside of unit there was a 1/2" of dust and grime.

6) Be an adult. If you feel that you were taken for a ride, try and work it out with the other person first WITHOUT FLAMING or name calling. Give them time to respond, which means more than 1 day. You don't know what has happened. Maybe their parent died or some other serious incident has happened which requires their full attention. If after a reasonable time, report it to the next level if their is one. That being the auction service or the advertising publication, etc. A final go would be to report it to the US Postal Service, especially if you used a USPS Money Order and transacted the trade via snail mail and received nothing. That constitutes mail fraud.

7) Consider using an online payment service. I try to use Paypal exclusively since I like their features. If not, then usually I use a USPS Money Order since it speeds up the process over using a personal check, which I will use as a last resort.


My personal rules for Ebay are:
a) Good feedback (little or no negatives)
b) Actual picture required for most items (some I use common sense on and take it a face value)
c) Usually contact seller in advance to 'talk' about the item
d) Determine my max bid and stick to it. I use BIDNAPPER auction bidding service. It really makes a difference.
e) I start the communication process immeadiately after the auction ends. This helps speed up the process of money and item transfer.
f) I post feedback as soon as I receive item and verify it is what was represented. If not, I contact seller and discuss problem. Like I said I have only had one problem unsolved, not to say that there aren't unscrupulous people trading on Ebay. Common sense and close watch on details helps me avoid them, at least so far.

Hope this helps someone who is concerned aboutonline trading and buying via the internet.

Gene KI6LO

[N2RJ]

I always use PayPal with my credit card. I've heard horror stories about PayPal not doing anything when someone gets scammed on ebay, but with the credit card you always have redress through your credit card company.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If the seller is so un-trusting, he wants my money in hand before he even thinks of shipping, I'm kinda concerned WHY he is so un-trusting - is it because he ripps folks off and expects to be repped off himself?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Would you expect AES to send you a radio before you pay them for it? That's just the way business is usually done- pay first, and then get your item.

[wd8aam]

#1 #Never use COD
#2 #Never use COD
#3 #Never use COD
etc!

[n4cpg]

Just wanted to let everybody know .... I listed a Uniden HR2600 10 Meter rig-unmodified!- on eBay Friday and they cancelled the auction on me- said it was illegal equipment- an amplifier no less- I notice there isn't much Ham stuff on ebay anymore. Maybe policies like this are why

Pell, N4CPG

[KE4MCL]

maybe its your wording in the auction post?

theres tons of ham gear out there. dispute it. on items like hf mobile amps, AM modulators and radios that tend to end up in cb'ers hands its wise to add "not legal for use on cb bands, for amateur radio use only" or something to that effect. there have been some ebay police busy boddies out there lately that have been over reacting. dispute it. theres an address you can respond to on the ebay cancellation notice.

i recently sold 2 smart siren control boxes and they didnt mess with those, i put up a defective from the factory siren box and they cancelled it. apparently the catch was that the smart sirens were "guaranteed broken" and the siren box was partially working.

robert
ke4mcl

[KC2JCA]

Ham Radio being sold on eBay is the electronic version of the Christmas Fruit Cake. A dozen radios that don't work being sent from Ham to Ham in some never ending cycle of misrepresentation.


73, Jim - kc2jca

[k3msb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4mcl @ Dec. 19 2002,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4) a ham say that they havent plugged it in?
yep. i wont plug in tube gear unless i know it was recently in service. electrolytics need to sometimes be "reformed" if the gear has been sitting for a long time.

73 ke4mcl[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Absolutely!! # The [b]exception to the rule is that the electrolytics are good!! #With the prices of new electrolytics, I never bother with the reformation process. #Even electrolytic caps that test good are replaced with new ones. #Saving a few cents on a new electrolytic cap, then having it short, can ruin a power transformer real quick!



I cringe at the number of posts on ebay that read something like "turned it on and it lights up, no smoke", referring to a radio that's 50+ years old!!



With old tube equipment of unknown history, they should NEVER be just plugged in!! #Always use a variac and monitor current draw, and bring the radio up in stages!!



73 Mark K3ZX

[SilentKey]

I think that your ham gear on eBay (for the most part) is sold by honest, knowledgable people who have a decent moral character and wouldn't want to see you get screwed over. These are the same people who wear colorful sweaters on Xmas and drink copious amounts of eggnog. These aren't your banditos of the internet, and I am the most non-trusting person in the world! Half of the time you are dealing with some mope who is trying to unload an HF rig without having to exert himself by packing the sucker in a brown box and he or she gets lazy. You might wait a while. Maybe the UPS guy whipped the box against the side of the truck for laughs....(it happens!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Just make sure you know where your seller lives so you can get intimate with his knees and work on your Carlton Fisk batting style if they don't deliver.

I even shipped 200$ to Australia for a Yaesu FRG-7 and it arrived as promised, better than I thought! Just check the feedback and insure the sale goes smooth. If not, well, youre screwed. Better learn to work on your slugger's arm.

As far as other merchandise (tobacciana, signed posters from those who work in Adult films, event tickets, items pertaining or related to Cuban cigars, opium war souvenirs, native American artifacts), you better watch it! These scumbags will stick you every chance they get!

Bottom line: The ham is basically honest, and a decent transaction usually ensues. Have fun and if you have serious doubts, bring them up!


SilentKey

[ad8bc]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n4sl @ Dec. 12 2002,13:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And DON'T ship Fed-Ex Ground! It is not shipped by FedEx but a company that purchased the rights to use the name. They are slow, their tracking is terrible and you can't get a straight answer from them on the phone (because they really don't know). I've shipped three items this way with identical results each time.

73, Steve N4SL[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hi Steve,

Not to put down your bad experiences with FedEx Ground, but in fact FedEx bought the old RPS about five or so years ago, and renamed it FedEx Ground to compete with UPS (and boy, they are!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. Sometimes, they are slow and they are hard to contact. But, sometimes so is UPS. But, RPS was the pioneer in barcode-trackable shipments, and we finally have a competitor to UPS since FedEx Ground started FedEx Home Delivery (a separate yet integral(??) part of FedEx Gound). They have had a little trouble integrating systems which makes them a little slow.

73 de AD8BC