View Full Version : VX-7R Modification for use on Fire Department.
OK I get it; I understand why we should not modify a radio for out of band operation.
I see the same question asked here daily/weekly/monthly and I see Glen post the same canned response. Yes we are being responsible by informing the person why it should not be done, again I GET IT.
Why then does QRZ have a Radio Mods section in the forum then? That section is for radio mods, yet people are there debating and degrading people who ask for a modification for a radio.
That is no different than people making comments in the for sale section about a price or terms of the sale, it is not allowed there so why is it allowed in the modification section?
Put that canned response as a sticky there just like there is a sticky in the for sale section not to use FOR SALE in your title.
Sure I know this is Fred's site and he can do what he wants bla bla bla, and make my own site bla bla bla.
No different than the political section, there are attacks going on down there and it is a free for all.
What is the difference? The same harassment rules should apply there as any other part of the forum.
You will never get your 2 minutes back for reading my thoughts, thank you just the same :)
WA6MHZ
08-09-2008, 12:11 AM
I think Hams should be able to do whatever they like with their radio. That is, if its a new common one, not a VINTAGE rare one. If its a HT that won't be a Classic radio for another 50 years, then go ahead and MOD it. If its a 1960 rig that is in high demand, Please don't hurt it, do what you like, but don't drill all those holes in the front panel, as then the restorer has to go out and get another Front panel. I just did that with a Heathkit SB-101. The radio worked great, after I took out all the unauthorized modifications some clown had put in. He thought he could just add a switch to get WWV on the rig. SO out came the drill and he went crazy! SCRATCH!!!! ZAPPPP!!!!! The front panel was wasted. SO I got the radio really cheap, and after waiting a year or so, a fairly nice condx SB-101 front panel came on Ebay and I nailed that. OH, I had to pay way way more for the Panel than I did the radio, but after an afternoons work, the radio was finally restored to all its original glory and perfection! PHEW!!!!
So, if you want to mod the radio, here are a couple of suggestions:
1) Make it REVERSABLE. If it requires removing a diode, don't just CLIP it out breaking the traces (surface mount diodes). Take an extra second and use TWO soldering irons at once, heating both ends and carefully lift the diode off the pads. Once it is removed, take a piece of tape and tape the diode to the inside of the radio's front cover. That way, it is a snap to restore it to factory config with NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER to the diode or the traces.
2) If it involves cutting a wire, find where the wire goes and unsolder one end. Tape up the wire end. That way, it can easily be resoldered when desired.
3) If you have some kind of mod you want to put in a switch for, consider a few ideas. Maybe replace a pot on the panel with a pot and a switch. That way, there are no holes drilled. Looks and works more professionally.
4) If you absolutely must drill a hole, drill it in the side of the cabinet. That way, the front panel is not disturbed and the side panel is more feasible to repair holes drilled in it. I use JB Weld and fill the hole, and then sand it flush and repaint. Often it looks invisible.
5) Plan things ahead and work carefully, don't just jump into things. Think about what you are doing to the radio and how it will affect its future value. Radios are like Diamonds. Kept properly , they grow in value. But when smashed, they are worthless! If you make a mistake, fix it right away, even if it means ordering replacement parts. Those parts will not be available a few years from now. That Kenwood TS-940S will be the Boat Anchor of tommorows generation, and be fondly sought after and loved. Treat it with care and gentleness.
6) Never operate a radio when ANGRY! You might hurt it, turning knobs too sharply and vigorously, breaking switches and shafts. If you are mad, go and beat on the door, not the radio! Radios are very delicate instruments, not meant for Gorillas! Some of the ones I have restored most certainly have been in cages with very OUTRAGED Gorillas!!!
7) Your Modification can enhance the operating pleasure and capabilties of the rig, but just remember, there is no place to hide on the Radio waves. Anything you do can and will come back to haunt you, so be Prudent in operating, acting as if Riley was sitting besides you at all times.
So, go ahead and modify that rig, just be careful, VERY VERY CAREFUL!
AE1PT
08-09-2008, 12:29 AM
Your definition of "mods" is skewed--this does not automatically mean any change which affects the operating frequencies. In fact, most mods have nothing to do with band edges--rather audio performance, filtration, receive characteristics, circuit improvements, the list goes on and on. My 751A has 11 mods done to it--and only 1 is general coverage for WARC bands that were not in place when the radio was made.
WA9SVD
08-09-2008, 01:08 AM
OK I get it; I understand why we should not modify a radio for out of band operation.
:)
I don't expect my two minutes back; quite frankly, neither you nor anyone else could afford it. But with all due respect, I don't think you really DO understand the issue.
It's NOT a matter of modifying a radio, it's the reasoning and rationalization to do so that IS faulty. Modifying a radio (for transmit) only makes sense if there is a reason to do so. Most of the individuals that ask for mod info do NOT have e legitimate, rational reason to do so. EGO boost or "my radio can transmit on more frequencies than yours" are NOT reasons or justifications to mod a radio. Nor is the misconception that because a person is an LEO, fire fighter, or some other public servant, they can use modiffied Amateur equipment to operate on the public service frequencies, which require certified equipment. it's NOT legal or permissible, regardless of what some "official" in the agency says. NO PS agency has authority to ignore or violate Fedreral regulations, including those of the FCC.
NO, the mods are NOT illegal. their USE is blatantly ILLEGAl. And that includes even accidental out-of-band operation.
The problem often is that once a mod is done, there's the temptation to "try it out." And those that have the "ego" thing will often brag to their compatriots of their new capability, and either of their own volition, or on a dare, "kerchunk" the local police repeater. THAT is where thery have crossed the line, and have proved they had no rational reason or justification to mod the radio in the first place. The temptation is often just too great, even if the original intention was "just in case of an emergency." And even if not the local police frequencies, it's JUST as illegal to operate on the GMRS, FRS, or even CB frequencies with modified Amateur gear.
And that is not even addressing the issue of those operators that deliberately mod a radio to intentionally operate on Marine, FRS, GMRS, CB or other services, regardless of the legality.
Finally, there are the chosen (or rather, d***ed) few that are "Heck-bent" on operating on Public Service frequencies for the purpose of jamming and harassing the local police, fire, and other legitimate users. They not only operate illegally, but endanger the public Servants that rely upon radio communications, but also jeopardize the public at large. And it DOES happen.
I don't expect my two minutes back; quite frankly, neither you nor anyone else could afford it. But with all due respect, I don't think you really DO understand the issue.
It's NOT a matter of modifying a radio, it's the reasoning and rationalization to do so that IS faulty. Modifying a radio (for transmit) only makes sense if there is a reason to do so. Most of the individuals that ask for mod info do NOT have e legitimate, rational reason to do so. EGO boost or "my radio can transmit on more frequencies than yours" are NOT reasons or justifications to mod a radio. Nor is the misconception that because a person is an LEO, fire fighter, or some other public servant, they can use modiffied Amateur equipment to operate on the public service frequencies, which require certified equipment. it's NOT legal or permissible, regardless of what some "official" in the agency says. NO PS agency has authority to ignore or violate Fedreral regulations, including those of the FCC.
NO, the mods are NOT illegal. their USE is blatantly ILLEGAl. And that includes even accidental out-of-band operation.
The problem often is that once a mod is done, there's the temptation to "try it out." And those that have the "ego" thing will often brag to their compatriots of their new capability, and either of their own volition, or on a dare, "kerchunk" the local police repeater. THAT is where thery have crossed the line, and have proved they had no rational reason or justification to mod the radio in the first place. The temptation is often just too great, even if the original intention was "just in case of an emergency." And even if not the local police frequencies, it's JUST as illegal to operate on the GMRS, FRS, or even CB frequencies with modified Amateur gear.
And that is not even addressing the issue of those operators that deliberately mod a radio to intentionally operate on Marine, FRS, GMRS, CB or other services, regardless of the legality.
Finally, there are the chosen (or rather, d***ed) few that are "Heck-bent" on operating on Public Service frequencies for the purpose of jamming and harassing the local police, fire, and other legitimate users. They not only operate illegally, but endanger the public Servants that rely upon radio communications, but also jeopardize the public at large. And it DOES happen.
SO see, I DO understand why, just like you described is exactly what I DO UNDERSTAND, again my post is not that I do not understand why it should not be done but why the harassment is allowed in that section?
Do like the political section, LOCK IT UP, if it such an issue?
K8MHZ
08-09-2008, 02:23 AM
Don't do it!
If you do, you don't know me, you have never heard of me and you can't even spell my name correctly (don't feel bad, many have tried and failed)
qrz signatures are like underwear, you should change yours once a year whether you need to or not.
hahahahahahaha thats a good one!!! :D
More CB "golden screwdriver" mentality.
W5HTW
08-09-2008, 02:44 AM
I think the point of modifying a radio is to improve it. Why? To use the improvements, of course! So we make changes to many technical issues of a radio, even HTs.
When the only use of those mods is to use the radio illegally, then the point is lost. In order to make use of the mod, you have to use the radio illegally. It's as simple as that. Otherwise, it is a useless mod, that you can't even try out, except on a dummy load. Back when hams were more technical, we often modified military surplus equipment for use on the ham bands. Such modifications were rarely just "clip a wire." We modified CB radios to work on ten meters. For the most part, that took more skill, and some minimal test equipment, to be sure it was working correctly. Hams today may also do skilled and technical mods, such as improvements in audio, frequency stability, and other things that CAN be used legally. Nothing wrong with that!
That's how I view it. Just no point in changing the frequency coverage of a radio, if that changed coverage is no use to a ham. Now if you could mod your VX5R so that it operates SSB on all HF bands, at 100 watts output, then you'd have a useful goal! Provided, of course, you could maintain the shirt pocket size and weight, and the battery usage.
It's a bit like the sawed off shotgun. There is only one reason for that weapon, and that is concealment. Which is illegal. And in order to make the mod useful, one has to actually conceal the sawed off shotgun on his/her person.
Another argument we hear, pro the illegal mods, is "I'm experimenting. I'm learning." Learning? By simply performing a tried and working modification? I don't see that as any type of learning.
Still another argument is "I'm a fire fighter and I need the radio." I have found two things in regards to that. The first is, if the agency feels you need a radio, if you can justify its use, they will get you a legal one. The other is more fire fighters, cops, medicas, etc., have zero interest in chatting. They are not hams, have no interest in radio as a hobby, and consider it nothing more than a tool of the job. If you listen to the public safety frequencies, you will see the "conversations" are not at all like ham chatting. But the ham who wants to modify his radio is usually more interested in idle chatter, and showing of his prowess at using a radio, rather than his skills in fighting a fire. The radio becomes the goal, not a took of the goal.
Most public safety agencies will reject volunteers who attempt to use illegal radios.
So again, to me, it is simply a useless waste of time, that, in order to be at all beneficial, has to result in illegal operation. Just that simple.
WA4TM
08-09-2008, 03:11 AM
SO see, I DO understand why, just like you described is exactly what I DO UNDERSTAND, again my post is not that I do not understand why it should not be done but why the harassment is allowed in that section?
Do like the political section, LOCK IT UP, if it such an issue?
I find it interesting that no one will comment on this part of W6GQ's post!!!
KA4DPO
08-09-2008, 03:26 AM
There are a lot of legitimate reasons to modify a radio such as audio mods, bandwidth mods, frequency stability mods, power supply mods, etc. Modifying an amateur radio for out of band operation is stupid. I wouldn't harass anyone for wanting to improve the performance of their radio. It's just that out of band operation isn't a performance enhancement.
If someone want's to do it I can't stop them but I won't help them either. This is just the CB/whacker mentality that usually goes away when you grow up.
AB8RO
08-09-2008, 03:57 AM
Why then does QRZ have a Radio Mods section in the forum then? That section is for radio mods, yet people are there debating and degrading people who ask for a modification for a radio.
1) It's not ALL mods that are being criticized, just the most often requested mods for out of band operation. For most hams, it's completely unnecessary. There are legitimate reasons for it but unless you are building things or are a member of mars then you can't really justify them.
2) In band mods are what should be comprising the bulk of the mods section. Hams who build have complained that the section has a high noise to signal ratio. The reason that you don't see more discussion of more appropriate mods is because they're drowned out by the almost daily request for un-needed mars mods.
Look, if you have to ask how, frankly, you don't need the mod. Anyone who is smart enough to use the mod legitimately has enough experience/intelligence to know where to find the mod and verify that it's correct himself. What we have are a bunch of noobs who are afraid of messing up their radio but can't stand the idea that someone else has a "more capable" radio than they do.
AB8RO
08-09-2008, 04:07 AM
I find it interesting that no one will comment on this part of W6GQ's post!!!
Well, I'll comment on it. the section doesn't need to be closed, only out of bands mods disallowed. There are plenty of places to find that stuff on the net. Moreover, if you have a legitimate need then you'll either be able to ask the organization (MARS), or, you'll be able to PM someone here who you know will answer your technical questions. This pretty much rules out new hams asking for such mods, which is as it should be.
If you're smart enough to use the mod legitimately, i.e. using your radio as a signal source for a heterodyne process, then it will be pretty clear to those who you talk with that your need is legitimate.
Of course I have a problem with out of band mods, but I also have one with the "how do I get more power, or modulation. . . ." types of requests, too.
Typically, these come from fellows that still have wet ink on their licenses, or perhaps don't even have ham tickets yet, but check in with psudonynms rather than a legitimate callsign, and ask these types of questions.
I am becoming of the opinion that moderators should delete all posts of this nature before they become a harboring place for insults, backstabbing and hate and discontent.
But that is just my opinion.
73, Jim
WA4TM
08-09-2008, 04:38 AM
As usual this has gone off in a complete different direction, with the original question NOT answered... Oh it was almost touched on a couple posts back, but still went off on a rant as usual...
It seems posters here answer with what they want to say no matter what was ask...
AB8RO
08-09-2008, 04:56 AM
As usual this has gone off in a complete different direction, with the original question NOT answered... Oh it was almost touched on a couple posts back, but still went off on a rant as usual...
On the one hand, there's some difference. Hams are not expected to "police radio prices", but we are expected to "police our own radio operations." So, criticizing these mods is well within the tradition and spirit of ham radio whereas criticizing prices is really nothing more than a personal attack.
In some sense, I agree it is like the political forum. If you want to raise the quality of contributions then simply eliminate the source of strife. That source isn't mods, it's simply out of band mods. I have yet to see any of the out of band requesters have a legitimate reason for their mods. I can think of legitimate reasons, but those aren't the reasons that they come up with. Thus those posters are much like the linkbot in that they contribute little substance to the mods forum. Unlike the political forum, however, the mods forum has genuine relevance to amateur radio.
I am becoming of the opinion that moderators should delete all posts of this nature before they become a harboring place for insults, backstabbing and hate and discontent.
But that is just my opinion.
73, Jim
EXACLTY, SOMEONE FINALLY GETS IT
That is the ENTIRE purpose behind this thread I started, it does start the insults, backstabbing and hate and discontent and should be stopped!
We all know already why not to do it yet everyone is replying here why not to do it missing the point of the thread completely
WA4TM
08-09-2008, 05:06 AM
I am not arguing any of this,, I have no radios with mods, and do not need or want them...
But it just amazes me that about 50% of the time the real question goes unanswered or is almost answered them it goes a dozen different directions, I have been on here for a little over 8 yrs and I used to learn quite a bit of useful info from reading the posts, now most of what I see is backstabbing or put downs...
I am sorry if anyone thinks I am stepping on toes here,, but this is how I feel about it.. Honestly if you look around you will see what I am talking about..
Carry on men, I am out of here!!
73
The unstated goal is to allow free passage of mods to facilitate illegal operation.
Your wrong, that is not my goal.
You are heading in the direction by assuming that is my goal, just a few more posts and the name calling will be there also.
My goal is to stop the fighting when a question about out of band mods is brought up.
There is NO REASON to belittle a person just because they ask.
If a post is brought up about something political it is deleted and the author is warned,
DO THE SAME FOR OUT OF BAND MODS,
Do not let it get into a big fight like your trying to do by assuming my intent.
It just does not make sense to me that QRZ provides the mods on the site, has a section in the forum about it and even lets name calling and hate go on in that section but does not allow it in any other section.
EXAMPLE
A person can call others names and create hate and discontent in the Q&A section and they get a warning from a moderator, now if that SAME stuff is done in the mods section they can get away with it?
Go read it, you will see.
I am not arguing any of this,, I have no radios with mods, and do not need or want them...
But it just amazes me that about 50% of the time the real question goes unanswered or is almost answered them it goes a dozen different directions, I have been on here for a little over 8 yrs and I used to learn quite a bit of useful info from reading the posts, now most of what I see is backstabbing or put downs...
I am sorry if anyone thinks I am stepping on toes here,, but this is how I feel about it.. Honestly if you look around you will see what I am talking about..
Carry on men, I am out of here!!
73
EXACTLY!
I do not have any radios of mine that are modded for out of band. I do not need one.
I know because I admin another radio forum people believe I am some freebander and run some big amp with a cb.
I have a Cobra 29 for offroading in my Jeep. Thats is the only CB I use and I DO NOT have an amp and the radio is bone stock.
I use a Kenwood D-710 in the Jeep as well. The only mod done to it was a firmware update, nothing else.
I have to agree with you, just like most other threads, noone reads the entire thread just what they think its about and make some off the wall coment.
I started the thread and I am done with it,
If you others have not figured it out yet, you never will.
AB8RO
08-09-2008, 05:24 AM
Your wrong, that is not my goal.
You are heading in the direction by assuming that is my goal, just a few more posts and the name calling will be there also.
Well, you responded before I deleted that portion of the message. But, let's just say I'm going from past postings.
My goal is to stop the fighting when a question about out of band mods is brought up.
That remains to be seen.
There is NO REASON to belittle a person just because they ask.
That seldom happens. What usually happens is that the person persists in their idiotic logic which leads to criticism of such. There's a post in the mods thread right now which has exactly that behavior. The posters are often belittled because they persist in their claims that they have legitimate reasons when it's clear that they do not. They invent convoluted situations and try to invent the perfect scenario where they need to talk on public service frequencies to save the day.
Seldom do those requesting the mods actually reconsider the "emergency" position which is pointless and unfounded. It's right to criticize that position. It's not harassment, it's disagreement.
If a post is brought up about something political it is deleted and the author is warned,
DO THE SAME FOR OUT OF BAND MODS,
Do not let it get into a big fight like your trying to do by assuming my intent.
Oh, I see, so now it's ok for you to assume my intent?
It just does not make sense to me that QRZ provides the mods on the site, has a section in the forum about it and even lets name calling and hate go on in that section but does not allow it in any other section.
Now some of the truth comes out. You are citing the existence of mods on QRZ as a support for legitimacy of the threads in the forum.
A person can call others names and create hate and discontent in the Q&A section and they get a warning from a moderator, now if that SAME stuff is done in the mods section they can get away with it?
Right, so your beef is with the criticism of those who respond and disagree, not those who agree. There's a post in their right now and the only person "up in arms", so to speak, is the original poster asking for his un-needed mod details.
I've always thought the mods forum needed a tigher rein to knock down "questionable" threads. It may not be illegal to mod a radio for out of band transmit but QRZ doesn't need to make it easier.
Until that change happens I have no problem giving a poster of one of these threads a ration of what they so richly deserve.
typical NEWBY.
NEEDS A ELMER DESPERATELY.
I am becoming of the opinion that moderators should delete all posts of this nature before they become a harboring place for insults, backstabbing and hate and discontent.
But that is just my opinion.
73, Jim
ARRRRRRRGGGGHHH! Et tu Brute?
WA9SVD
08-09-2008, 03:00 PM
I'm not so sure immediately deleting requests is the best way to go. Some requests are honest, but misdirected. Due to the current licensing system, at least some requests are by persons that do not realize or understand that such mods are illegal to USE. (And hence, are ill-advised.)
Most such requests are initially met with a simple explanation of the illegality of the use of such mods, and the drawbacks of having a radio with such mods that have no legitimate use.
It's only if the original request expresses an "attitude," or the originator sevelops an attitude that things can get a bit rowdy or unpleasant.
Perhaps a compromise would be for moderators to have a canned response to such requests if a thread gets out of hand, and then lock it, before it goes on for a dozen pages.
KA4DPO
08-09-2008, 03:14 PM
I agree with SVD that a straight answer to such a question is justified. It's what the person does with the answer that makes all the difference. Some will take it for what it's worth and realize that such modifications are illegal or illadvised for technical reasons.
Others will call the responder a bitter OF and the FCC can't tell me what to do, yada yada yada. In response to to that type of attitude the proper approach would be for the moderators to remove that question and clean the slate.
Some really are legitimate questions by new operators who simply don't know but a lot are trolls by knuckleheads who want to go against the law.
I'm not so sure immediately deleting requests is the best way to go. Some requests are honest, but misdirected. Due to the current licensing system, at least some requests are by persons that do not realize or understand that such mods are illegal to USE. (And hence, are ill-advised.)
Most such requests are initially met with a simple explanation of the illegality of the use of such mods, and the drawbacks of having a radio with such mods that have no legitimate use.
It's only if the original request expresses an "attitude," or the originator sevelops an attitude that things can get a bit rowdy or unpleasant.
Perhaps a compromise would be for moderators to have a canned response to such requests if a thread gets out of hand, and then lock it, before it goes on for a dozen pages.
"No legitimate use," eh?
Alright, I can think of a situation right now, post Katrina, that involved a "modded" HT that was used by a ham near New Orleans to assist the Coast Guard and probably saved lives in that situation.
If he had done as you all promote and hadn't modded his HT there probably would be several more dead folk in the aftermath of Katrina.
As amateurs, I think you all know we ARE permitted to use any frequency, any mode in an emergency to preserve life and property when no other means are available. How can you do that, if presented with another Katrina-like disaster with your unmodified gear? Whip out the soldering pencil? I hope you have a battery powered one, or your UPS will operate it and your flashlight light will do it long enough for you find the article, and a service manual, to make it capable when your family screams "get out, now!!"
Now, admittedly, if someone who *doesn't* have a callsign, irrespective of license class, asks the question, then, I suppose that request shouldn't be honored.
Do you honestly think that anyone who values their license, let alone their pocket book and possibly jail time, would ask for such information for nefarious purposes? 99 out of 100 wouldn't. So, honor the request.
Besides, most of you on here, with one or two exceptions, probably couldn't do SMT level work anyway. And if the person asking is a newbie, unless he knows what he's doing, he'll end up with a brick or a very expensive mother board replacement from the service center.
We need to support and foster anyone's interest in the technical side of our hobby. There are too many who are just appliance operators and their interests end there.
As to me, all but one of my radios are "modded." The last, because I haven't got around to it yet. And, that includes, I suppose, some commercial gear that *yes* is capable and will transmit on selected channels outside amateur bands if necessary in an emergency. Not that I'm a Boy Scout Motto example, but darn it, we do need to be prepared.
73.
KA4DPO
08-09-2008, 04:24 PM
"No legitimate use," eh?
Alright, I can think of a situation right now, post Katrina, that involved a "modded" HT that was used by a ham near New Orleans to assist the Coast Guard and probably saved lives in that situation.
He could have done the same thing with a cell phone. Cells were up and operating. That's a poor example.
As amateurs, I think you all know we ARE permitted to use any frequency, any mode in an emergency to preserve life and property when no other means are available.
Under those circumstances anyone is permitted to do so. The probability of that is so remote that it is like saying I need a Saturn V in case I have to go to moon.
Now, admittedly, if someone who *doesn't* have a callsign, irrespective of license class, asks the question, then, I suppose that request shouldn't be honored.
No supposition required on this one. The answer is no.
Do you honestly think that anyone who values their license, let alone their pocket book and possibly jail time, would ask for such information for nefarious purposes? 99 out of 100 wouldn't. So, honor the request.
Absolutely, why else would they want to mod their radio for out of band operation. Once again it is unlikely in the extreme that such a mod would be of any value.
Besides, most of you on here, with one or two exceptions, probably couldn't do SMT level work anyway.
You're making an assumption. Anyone with exprience in electronics can do so with proper equipment. It's not the arrow it's the indian if you get my drift.
We need to support and foster anyone's interest in the technical side of our hobby. There are too many who are just appliance operators and their interests end there.
On this one I completely agree with you and I do so on a regular basis.
As to me, all but one of my radios are "modded." The last, because I haven't got around to it yet. And, that includes, I suppose, some commercial gear that *yes* is capable and will transmit on selected channels outside amateur bands if necessary in an emergency. Not that I'm a Boy Scout Motto example, but darn it, we do need to be prepared.
The only thing you need to be prepared for is adulthood. Perhaps then you will understand the true lack of depth to the argument for modifying radios for that kind of operation.
73.
There is a simple truth and that is that there is no justification to modify an amateur radio to transmit on frequencies beyond the current allocation. All of the sky might fall tomorrow arguments are childish at best. Disasters happen and allways will. Hams have allways pitched in and probably allways will. Use the frequencies you have available and leave the others to the people who really need them. Besides, most commercial stuff is trunked anyway so the simplex stuff that's left is low priority. Perhaps you can communicate with a cab driver in an emergency and safely guide him out of the city.
To any licensed amateur who wants to modify their radios transmit frequency capability I beg you please, GROW UP AND GET A LIFE.
"No legitimate use," eh?
Alright, I can think of a situation right now, post Katrina, that involved a "modded" HT that was used by a ham near New Orleans to assist the Coast Guard and probably saved lives in that situation.
He could have done the same thing with a cell phone. Cells were up and operating. That's a poor example.
That's a bunch of BS. Cell phones were out for several days until temporary cell phone trailers and gensets could be brought in and resulted in very limited coverage. Go read the FCC's Katrina Committee Report before you open your trap.
As amateurs, I think you all know we ARE permitted to use any frequency, any mode in an emergency to preserve life and property when no other means are available.
Under those circumstances anyone is permitted to do so.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Read the regulations. Obviously, you haven't.
The probability of that is so remote that it is like saying I need a Saturn V in case I have to go to moon.
Really? Again, you don't read or maybe don't even listen to what's going on. Ignorance is bliss.
.....
Do you honestly think that anyone who values their license, let alone their pocket book and possibly jail time, would ask for such information for nefarious purposes? 99 out of 100 wouldn't. So, honor the request.
Absolutely, why else would they want to mod their radio for out of band operation. Once again it is unlikely in the extreme that such a mod would be of any value.
QED. Let's just say that its a good thing at least a few folks out there don't listen to your kind of logic.
Besides, most of you on here, with one or two exceptions, probably couldn't do SMT level work anyway.
You're making an assumption. Anyone with exprience in electronics can do so with proper equipment. It's not the arrow it's the indian if you get my drift.
Yes, based upon the level of those, such as you, doing the "discussing." Long on control, short on common sense.
.....
As to me, all but one of my radios are "modded." The last, because I haven't got around to it yet. And, that includes, I suppose, some commercial gear that *yes* is capable and will transmit on selected channels outside amateur bands if necessary in an emergency. Not that I'm a Boy Scout Motto example, but darn it, we do need to be prepared.
The only thing you need to be prepared for is adulthood. Perhaps then you will understand the true lack of depth to the argument for modifying radios for that kind of operation.
Anyone making such an inflamatory retort is, frankly, small on the experience side of life. Read some books, instead of spending your time extolling your perspectives as if you had some depth.
There is a simple truth and that is that there is no justification to modify an amateur radio to transmit on frequencies beyond the current allocation. All of the sky might fall tomorrow arguments are childish at best. Disasters happen and allways will. Hams have allways pitched in and probably allways will. Use the frequencies you have available and leave the others to the people who really need them.
There is a petition before the FCC that hopefully will be opened for consideration. It involves establishing an allocation for interoperability purposes. The existing Part 90 high band interoperability channels are inadequate and seldom used due to their day to day assignment for normal operations. Hopefully when and if new channels are set aside, multiple services will be able to use them in disaster operations. Including, at least some amateurs.
However, pinhead thinking that some here have demonstrated would preclude their participation, since they wouldn't "dare" modify their equipment.
There is nothing in FCC regulations besides limitations on HF amplifiers, that preclude amateurs from doing anything they wish to equipment. Yes, there are limits placed upon how it is to perform and preclusions from its normal use outside of designated amateur bands. However, my remarks concern emergency operation, my friend.
Besides, most commercial stuff is trunked anyway so the simplex stuff that's left is low priority. Perhaps you can communicate with a cab driver in an emergency and safely guide him out of the city.
What you say is true for the stupid public safety officials that listened to the Motorola salesman about being able to contact the dog catcher or the sewer cleaner any time they want to. However, the loss in robustness, order of magnitude increase in system cost, and, most importantly, the example of the total failure of the M/A Comm New Orleans trunked system for several days following Katrina is by far more relevant than the sales pitch. Try talking more than a block or two on a one Watt 800MHz trunker HT on talkaround. Remember the TV shots of the cops tossing their HTs? I sure do.
Trunked systems are very vulnerable to single point failure as NO's system demonstrated.
Dallas, TX, even ABANDONED their expensive 800MHz trunked public safety system and went back to their old, robust UHF mobile relay system. The dog catcher uses the 800 system now. Maybe they even use it to hail cabs as well.
To any licensed amateur who wants to modify their radios transmit frequency capability I beg you please, GROW UP AND GET A LIFE.
I think, sonny, you need to look in the mirror. Maybe when your beard develops, you might have enough experience to know a fraction of what you're talking about. Period.
__________________
AB8RO
08-09-2008, 07:11 PM
"No legitimate use," eh?
Alright, I can think of a situation right now, post Katrina, that involved a "modded" HT that was used by a ham near New Orleans to assist the Coast Guard and probably saved lives in that situation.
Do you have a link? Newspaper article? Details?
KA4DPO
08-09-2008, 07:13 PM
"No legitimate use," eh?
Yada yada yada, weak excuse, yada ayda, more lame excuses, yada name calling, and so on......
I think, sonny, you need to look in the mirror. Maybe when your beard develops, you might have enough experience to know a fraction of what you're talking about. Period.
__________________
Sonny? I got licensed in 1965 so that term doesn't apply here. As for experience, especially where desperate situations are concerned believe me I have far more experience than you can imagine.
All of this contrived "the sky is gonna fall" is nothing more that weak excuses for modifying a radio for illegal purposes. There simply is no legitimate reason to do so. Oh, by the way, Cell service was back up within 24 hours in most places. The guy probably didn't check, or want to. Perhaps you could provide a web site that explains how super whacker saved the day otherwise it's just hearsay. The majority of cell towers survived just fine, they only needed power restored. Check your facts before you make insulting remarks and then accuse me of doing the same. It's only polite...
KA8NCR
08-09-2008, 07:16 PM
The same mentality that roasts CB'ers for coming up to 10 meters and running around town with 10 kilowatts in the back of their Suburban should be the same mentality that keeps amateurs from modifying their radios for out of band operation. It's that simple.
We're supposed to be above the fray, we have great disdain for people who don't follow rules except when it comes to a few who modify radios for use in other services. Then, it's rationalized and justified as "well, an emergency might happen".
An amateur transceiver is not type accepted for those services. Period. You can have anecdotal evidence of how one incident saved lives, the truth is that if you're in emergency services and think you'll ever need to contact the Coast Guard (or live in hurricane prone areas), you should probably have a VHF marine radio anyway.
Let me make this perfectly clear as it pertains to the rationale in favor of modifying radios for the purpose of interfacing to other services; if your local RACES operating infrastructure and procedures are SO BAD as to be unable to interface to served and government agencies during emergencies, then modifying the radio is pointless because amateur radio is doomed anyway. There is no reason during an emergency that you couldn't dial up your net, coordinator or EOC and inform them of the emergency. I realize that it's not as sexy as calling an HH-65 direct, but then the pilot can probably talk direct to you if need be on the amateur frequencies.
KA4DPO
08-09-2008, 07:22 PM
The same mentality that roasts CB'ers for coming up to 10 meters and running around town with 10 kilowatts in the back of their Suburban should be the same mentality that keeps amateurs from modifying their radios for out of band operation. It's that simple.
We're supposed to be above the fray, we have great disdain for people who don't follow rules except when it comes to a few who modify radios for use in other services. Then, it's rationalized and justified as "well, an emergency might happen".
An amateur transceiver is not type accepted for those services. Period. You can have anecdotal evidence of how one incident saved lives, the truth is that if you're in emergency services and think you'll ever need to contact the Coast Guard (or live in hurricane prone areas), you should probably have a VHF marine radio anyway.
Let me make this perfectly clear as it pertains to the rationale in favor of modifying radios for the purpose of interfacing to other services; if your local RACES operating infrastructure and procedures are SO BAD as to be unable to interface to served and government agencies during emergencies, then modifying the radio is pointless because amateur radio is doomed anyway. There is no reason during an emergency that you couldn't dial up your net, coordinator or EOC and inform them of the emergency. I realize that it's not as sexy as calling an HH-65 direct, but then the pilot can probably talk direct to you if need be on the amateur frequencies.
Well said, thank you..
AB8MA
08-09-2008, 07:30 PM
You will never get your 2 minutes back for reading my thoughts, thank you just the same :)
Now that hurt. I want you to know I seriously read your article.
Took longer that that.
Do you have a link? Newspaper article? Details?
Here's one that's relevant. I'll keep looking for that specific one.
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/09/08/106/
Sonny? I got licensed in 1965 so that term doesn't apply here. As for experience, especially where desperate situations are concerned believe me I have far more experience than you can imagine.
Sorry, sonny, but I've had an amateur ticket since 61. And a First Phone since 65 and now converted to a GROL. I worked as a technician and dispatcher for a public safety agency while in college many moons ago.
All of this contrived "the sky is gonna fall" is nothing more that weak excuses for modifying a radio for illegal purposes. There simply is no legitimate reason to do so. Oh, by the way, Cell service was back up within 24 hours in most places.
More BS. If anyone cares, I sauggest you read the full FCC Katrina Report. The entire volume. You won't have to read for very long until you read about all of the flooded wire centers, dead wire center batteries since generators ran out of fuel, and no fuel available. And, in case you haven't figured it out, even IF cell sites were working, they require trunks back to wire centers and wire centers to be operational in order to access the telephone network.
The guy probably didn't check, or want to.
The Coast Guard was begging for "opened up" amateur HTs, per the link I just posted. I'll look for the link to the other, more relevant story.
The majority of cell towers survived just fine, they only needed power restored. Check your facts before you make insulting remarks and then accuse me of doing the same. It's only polite...
Towers, well, not any good at all without fuel for dead batteries, both at the cell sites and in flooded telephone wire center buildings.
If you've been around for as long as you claim, your call sure doesn't reflect it. My comments were in response to your repugnant, insulting remarks. Take them any way you want. All the way back to yada yada yada land.
........We're supposed to be above the fray, we have great disdain for people who don't follow rules except when it comes to a few who modify radios for use in other services. Then, it's rationalized and justified as "well, an emergency might happen".
We are expected to have the knowledge and the obedience to uphold the law. Following the rules can be, and often is, being trained and equipped to respond. And, I don't mean donning an orange vest, pasting placards on your car, and mounting a Whelen siren on the front bumper.
An amateur transceiver is not type accepted for those services. Period. You can have anecdotal evidence of how one incident saved lives, the truth is that if you're in emergency services and think you'll ever need to contact the Coast Guard (or live in hurricane prone areas), you should probably have a VHF marine radio anyway.
Yawn. Well, yes, I think I explained that earlier. However, it is ludicrous also to think that mounting a marine radio in a vehicle that would only be used in a dire emergency would make any sense, while being able to use one's non-type accepted radio in a genuine, no other means emergency makes all the sense in the world.
Let me make this perfectly clear as it pertains to the rationale in favor of modifying radios for the purpose of interfacing to other services; if your local RACES operating infrastructure and procedures are SO BAD as to be unable to interface to served and government agencies during emergencies, then modifying the radio is pointless because amateur radio is doomed anyway.
This isn't about bureacracy and its success or failure, let alone its existence after a major disaster. This is about individual capability. The heart and soul of "when all else fails." I wouldn't give you 10 cents for all of that orange vest organization in a true emergency. Especially of the scale of Katrina. And, most if not all local telecomm infrastructure was destroyed.
There is no reason during an emergency that you couldn't dial up your net, coordinator or EOC and inform them of the emergency. I realize that it's not as sexy as calling an HH-65 direct, but then the pilot can probably talk direct to you if need be on the amateur frequencies.
So, if you see someone drowning or hanging on to the side of a floating piece of wood, from your vantage point, in an actively used maritime area, you'd try to hail your questionable ham contacts and watch as the hapless person fades away? You do what you think is best, but if it were me, I'd be on Channel 16 with a Mayday in a heartbeat. Bank on it. I surely would even if there was an EOC and was busy in communications with someone else. A delay of a even a few moments might mean the difference in whether someone is saved or not.
Of course, that's assuming its a Katrina-like event when all else HAS failed. 911, cell phones overloaded or dead, wire line phones with no dial tone either. Happens quite frequently in most earthquakes of any size at all.
Wake up.
AI4EP
08-09-2008, 11:11 PM
Is he hoping for our blessings for his actions ( or wanna - be actions ) ?
Is he hoping for our blessings for his actions ( or wanna - be actions ) ?
The mindset is termed "Apologist"...
KE5MLF
08-10-2008, 02:10 AM
I only wish we had cell phones 24 hrs. after Katrina.. We did not have power for over 5 weeks..And like previoulsy stated they brought in portable towers on generators, but guess what? You could not talk because they were instantly overloaded and eventually they ran out of fuel. You can't power anything without fuel....I can tell you first hand a lot of things went on that was never reported by the news and unless you were there you want prob ever know..I hope that does not happen again for a long time!
KA4DPO
08-10-2008, 02:53 AM
They gave the Coast Guard one HT, one. Whoopde do.... There is no mention in the article about amateurs operating on anything other than amateur frequencies. And ya got on the age thing Pop. Looks like your four whole years ahead of me. Again, big whoop. The fact is that amateur radio really played a very small role in the Katrina disaster. The FEMA turned a lot of them down and turned a lot more away bluntly telling them they didn't need their help. Truth is, the government had commo within hours after the storm. One HT that was used by the Coasties on their frequencies is not much of a story. In fact, we don't even know if they actually used it or if some whacker just handed one to a guy and said here, check this out. So the excuse is you're going to open up all of your equipment so when the next emergency hits you can hand it to some Fed and be a big $ss Hero.......Oh Please....:p
This whole argument is the most childish thing I've seen in years..
AB8RO
08-10-2008, 03:03 AM
Here's one that's relevant. I'll keep looking for that specific one.
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/09/08/106/
Ah, I missed this sentence
We had to loan the Coast Guard an HT that was opened up for government frequencies because their equipment failed in the ops center.
I doubt very seriously that the strength of that word was really felt.
VK6ZGO
08-10-2008, 04:54 AM
I feel you've all got this emergency thing backwards.
Wouldn't it be a better idea for the emergency services to be able to
monitor & reply on Amateur frequencies in & only in, a disaster
situation.(Like Katrina).
This would mean that any ham could make an urgent call if necessary, be
acknowledged,& action taken,rather than hope you can break into traffic on
an emergency channel.
Of course this may not be possible with your regulations,& care would have
to be taken that the ham frequency didn't become "annexed " by the
emergency people to use with thinner & thinner excuses each time.
Non-disaster emergencies would be better served by the use of a cellphone.
I don't like the "saving lives in an emergency" argument much,as it reminds
me of the way the CB-ers weaselled VK hams out of our 11m band!.
73 VK6ZGO
They gave the Coast Guard one HT, one. Whoopde do.... There is no mention in the article about amateurs operating on anything other than amateur frequencies. And ya got on the age thing Pop. Looks like your four whole years ahead of me. Again, big whoop. The fact is that amateur radio really played a very small role in the Katrina disaster. The FEMA turned a lot of them down and turned a lot more away bluntly telling them they didn't need their help. Truth is, the government had commo within hours after the storm. One HT that was used by the Coasties on their frequencies is not much of a story. In fact, we don't even know if they actually used it or if some whacker just handed one to a guy and said here, check this out. So the excuse is you're going to open up all of your equipment so when the next emergency hits you can hand it to some Fed and be a big $ss Hero.......Oh Please....:p
This whole argument is the most childish thing I've seen in years..
Yes, its been quite a while since I've had an exchange with someone as childish as you've behaved in the several posts of yours here.
Like I said earlier, and KE5MLF said, it was quite an event.
As to the Feds having commo, one of the examples I like to cite is the one in the FCC Katrina Report that depicts a National Guard helo hovering above having to drop a note in a bottle to a responder on the ground. Now that's Federal commo at its best. Or, the part about the Sat phones, when they finally arrived, and how most couldn't get them to work properly. Instead of mouthing off, like I said, you ought to read more before you open your trap.
As to FEMA turning hams away, perhaps that was true of some "lone wolves." Those sent in by then-ARRL Alabama Section Manager Greg Sarratt via the ARRL Montgomery, AL coordinating point all had preassigned locations. There were complaints in the FCC Report about fuel trucks and telecomm technicians not being able to get through road blocks. Now, that's a real FEMA/LEO triumph.
I didn't bother to look up where you reside. From your flippant attitude, it sounds like somewhere on 52nd Street in New York City. Certainly a long way from Katrina or anyone who lived in its path or worked the situation as was KE5MLF. If you ever have something the scale of Katrina nail your neighborhood, my sympathies. Make sure your next of kin know where you lived.
The rest of your gibberish is really not worth reacting to.
As to the comment from VK6ZGO, US FCC regulations already permit government stations to do what you suggest. And, it is done in singular emergencies when amateur radio is aboard and other means of communication are not, if the government station is frequency-agile. Of course, in a situation like Katrina, having to stand watch and transfer information to all units from another frequency takes time.
As an example, 10 helos on Marine Channel 16 don't have the capability in their radios to dial up 146.52.
That was the most likely reason for the request for the "opened up" HT in the example linked by the Coast Guard, or that they had no HTs on marine channels, which I can't quite believe. The other story was, as I recall, from Amateur Radio Newsline and I couldn't find the archive.
And, for those that don't know, federal users aren't regulated by the FCC anyway.
I"m through wasting my time with this thread.
73.
KA8NCR
08-10-2008, 04:04 PM
Yawn. Well, yes, I think I explained that earlier. However, it is ludicrous also to think that mounting a marine radio in a vehicle that would only be used in a dire emergency would make any sense, while being able to use one's non-type accepted radio in a genuine, no other means emergency makes all the sense in the world.
You can make fun of whackers all you want, but the hallmark of a whacker is grabbing a ticket and justifying skirting the laws because they "need to be prepared". Granted, we don't many hurricanes off Lake Erie, but I've been in enough nuclear plant drills to spot someone who is hell bent on doing their own thing. So go do it. The unfortunate thing is that you don't know if your modifications actually work without breaking the law in its entirety, and since there probably isn't an active emergency, you have no reason to test and no justification for breaking the law. But you will, because "you need to be prepared". And that's what our hobby needs plenty of, people who can easily rationalize breaking the law by transmitting out of band.
I'm done with you now. I don't participate with people who reply with a sophomoric "yawn". You can take your non-type accepted radio, communicate with whomever you like. Nothing I say, nor others say here, is going to dissuade you.
W0LPQ
08-10-2008, 04:28 PM
The olnly thing that will discourage people like this (and several others) is an NAL from the FCC.
However, your license ... your choice.
Have at it ... as has been said ... you are going to anyway. What difference will anyone who suggests following our rules make to you .. zilch.
Like others, I am tired of this BS. You either follow the rules or you don't.
6EM you might want to read Glen, K9STH's post regarding the Chicken Little theory. Well said.
Then again, it probably will have zero impact.
KA4DPO
08-10-2008, 04:58 PM
Yes, its been quite a while since I've had an exchange with someone as childish as you've behaved in the several posts of yours here.
73.
That is without a doubt the finest example of the pot calling the kettle black that I have seen in decades. Most people our age know better than to make silly excuses to skirt the law. They also know better than to hurl insults at other people for expressing an opinion. You my friend have issues..
W9VER
08-10-2008, 05:01 PM
You can make fun of whackers all you want, but the hallmark of a whacker is grabbing a ticket and justifying skirting the laws because they "need to be prepared". Granted, we don't many hurricanes off Lake Erie, but I've been in enough nuclear plant drills to spot someone who is hell bent on doing their own thing. So go do it. The unfortunate thing is that you don't know if your modifications actually work without breaking the law in its entirety, and since there probably isn't an active emergency, you have no reason to test and no justification for breaking the law. But you will, because "you need to be prepared". And that's what our hobby needs plenty of, people who can easily rationalize breaking the law by transmitting out of band.
I must admit, I did butcher up a nice Cobra radio with a mod in my CB days, NEVER AGAIN!!! The mod did not work, and I should have realized this when the receive was really weak, then I transmitted and *poof*.
I could never find out what was wrong, did notice a "re-manufactured" sticker in the back, figured somone screwed it up before and just sent it in to get "de-modded". Anyhow I won't do that stuff again.;)
but the changing the emergency channel from 9 to 19 was very useful. (anyone monitor 9 anymore?)
That is without a doubt the finest example of the pot calling the kettle black that I have seen in decades. Most people our age know better than to make silly excuses to skirt the law. They also know better than to hurl insults at other people for expressing an opinion. You my friend have issues..
John,
You should know by now, my friend, that Apologism knows no age limits. Nor does the amount of time licensed (short or long) matter in these discussions.
The 'argument' (and justification thereof) is a shaky one at that.
....... The unfortunate thing is that you don't know if your modifications actually work without breaking the law in its entirety, and since there probably isn't an active emergency, you have no reason to test and no justification for breaking the law.
This is good example of why I shouldn't waste anymore time, but, I will, just to set someone straight who doesn't know about dummy loads.
Ever hear of one of those? Oh, but "you must test it on an antenna, to be sure." Nope. I sure don't.
I can check the transmitter and receiver on the old service monitor just fine.
If I really was that interested in on the air testing, I'd spend the bucks to borrow an anechoic chamber, attenuate the output power and see what the pattern looks like.
But you will, because "you need to be prepared".
Yes, I do maintain a stock of flashlights and spare batteries. A gell cell or two. An FT-7 (that has a VFO) and an IC-703. I haven't finished my portable gel cell carrier box and vehicular charger just yet, but will. And, of course, lots of various Anderson Power Pole combos for power sources. And, plenty of wire, coax, mini tuner and insulators.
And that's what our hobby needs plenty of, people who can easily rationalize breaking the law by transmitting out of band.
OK. OK. If it makes you feel good, continue to profess anyone that owns (or enables) gear to transmit outside of amateur allocations to be in wait of an NAL all you want. You're just 'goin in the wind,' since nothing in Part 97 prohibits same. Granted, transmissions, except in compliance with Part 97, when made outside permissible amateur allocations except for MARS, SHARES, CAP, etc., are prohibited. But, if they aren't made unless a genuine emergency, no harm done.
..... You can take your non-type accepted radio, communicate with whomever you like. Nothing I say, nor others say here, is going to dissuade you.
Really? How do you know that the radios I use in my vehicle aren't Part 90 type accepted? This isn't about a VX-7. (Hint: They are). Of course, that's not true for Marine Band use. But, Part 97 takes care of that issue if it ever arises. Here's another hint. The Coast Guard in their Fast Boats use the same high power Motorola radio I do.
I think I'm mature enough to own something capable of breaking the law if it is used improperly. Are you? Maybe not. Nobody but me in my family knows how to flip zones to the one with the Marine channels. And, they know better than to grab the mike and press the PTT switch, even on the 2M amateur band. Do your kids?
From your occupational revelation, you sound like you might be a nuclear policeman. Now, if that's the case, you probably are frustrated. Walking around with all that firepower and unable to pull one off. Too friggin' bad. Go to the range and plink away. Beats trying to take out your frustration by boring holes with AP ammo through the containment dome.
John,
You should know by now, my friend, that Apologism knows no age limits. Nor does the amount of time licensed (short or long) matter in these discussions.
The 'argument' (and justification thereof) is a shaky one at that.
I think most of you must be ex-CBers. Why? Because the thought of owning something that has a VFO instead of fixed channels on the dial is a bit too challenging for your mental matter.
When I was a kid, my old VF-1 Heath VFO had 11 meters on it, and my Viking II would probably operate there. But, why would I want to, even then? Not my kinda people. Never were.
Frankly, its a bit patronizing and stupid of the major Nippon suppliers to inhibit transmit features outside of amateur allocations. All that is required to be able to market them is that they meet Part 15 spurious emission requirements. That's the ONLY type acceptance required. Oh, I guess the linear amp restriction is a form of type acceptance, I suppose.
The olnly thing that will discourage people like this (and several others) is an NAL from the FCC.
.....
Then again, it probably will have zero impact.
I'm intelligent enough to know the regulations and abide by them. Again, you're acting like an ex-CBer who is confused, getting FCC regulations prohibiting modifications to CB equipment mixed up and extended to amateur gear. Not the case.
I'd encourage all of you here to read the relevant sections of Part 97 concerning authorized emergency transmissions, before you loosely dance around with NALs and FOs. You might be suprised.
As I noted earlier in my exhanges with the "yahda yahda yahda" dude, I've plenty of knowledge, licensure, and equipment to ensure I comply with FCC regulations. Maybe you don't. Not my problem.
W0LPQ
08-10-2008, 07:34 PM
6EM the only two CB rigs I ever owned are: ECI Courier ... resident on 10M AM. Bought the Hy-Gain boards from Burstein-Applebee and put them on 10AM also. Otherwise, never been there.
So take your "ex CBer" attitude and leave.
KA8NCR
08-10-2008, 07:36 PM
From your occupational revelation, you sound like you might be a nuclear policeman. Now, if that's the case, you probably are frustrated. Walking around with all that firepower and unable to pull one off. Too friggin' bad. Go to the range and plink away. Beats trying to take out your frustration by boring holes with AP ammo through the containment dome.
Well, that's not my occupation, so not only is your supposition incorrect, but you're making a fool out of yourself with these attempts at ad hominem attacks. Really, I expect better out of someone who ostensibly knows worlds more about RF than I.
In fact, I'll just shuddup now, you have an old service monitor.
Well, that's not my occupation, so not only is your supposition incorrect, but you're making a fool out of yourself with these attempts at ad hominem attacks. ..
You apparently don't like to be told you're off base. If you don't like it, do a better job making sure you're right the next time before making wild, incorrect statements.
In fact, I'll just shuddup now, you have an old service monitor.
Perhaps I do, among my trinquets and trash. Lots of dummy loads too. Even one built into my test bench.
Dummy loads are cheap. Plenty available surplus from cell system use for a few bucks at most hamfests. You ought to buy a couple.
73.
6EM the only two CB rigs I ever owned are: ECI Courier ... resident on 10M AM. Bought the Hy-Gain boards from Burstein-Applebee and put them on 10AM also. Otherwise, never been there.
So take your "ex CBer" attitude and leave.
Again, here's someone who doesn't like being corrected.
I suppose I am wasting my time, were it not for the likelihood that someone might actually otherwise believe the several of you that spout incorrect facts.
Perhaps we should have a discussion thread entitled "Can we be trusted with a VFO?"
Geesh.
KA8NCR
08-10-2008, 09:02 PM
You apparently don't like to be told you're off base. If you don't like it, do a better job making sure you're right the next time before making wild, incorrect statements.
Run with your anecdotal reasons for doing it and have a nice day. I told you I was done with you on this topic a while ago and my reasons haven't changed.
Perhaps I do, among my trinquets and trash. Lots of dummy loads too. Even one built into my test bench.
Dummy loads are cheap. Plenty available surplus from cell system use for a few bucks at most hamfests. You ought to buy a couple.
73.
Bad news, I already own plenty of dummy loads.
First you incorrectly stated I was a nuclear policeman, and then you incorrectly stated that I do not own a dummy load. You're zero-for-two. With a record like that, you might want to slow down a little. You haven't been right on those two points, so why would I believe you are right on the original premise?
....First you incorrectly stated I was a nuclear policeman,
And, my reason for that conjecture was...... your statements of having participated in several nuclear plant exercises of some sort. Or, close to that. Fair assumption, since nuclear utilities have their own procedures, commo, etc., and don't need hams to keep NRC compliant.
and then you incorrectly stated that I do not own a dummy load.
Well, for someone to claim that I couldn't have programmed or selected channels for non amateur band transmission without ostensibly breaking the law, I came to the conclusion you don't understand that with a proper dummy load, miniscule radiation takes place. And, that in transmitting into an effective dummy load, no regulations are breached.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt, that you didn't understand that. Apparently, it was ignorance of FCC regulations that your retort about my breaking all sorts of FCC regulations was based upon.
You're zero-for-two. With a record like that, you might want to slow down a little. You haven't been right on those two points, so why would I believe you are right on the original premise?
The difference is sheer speculation on my part as to the reasons for your erroneous statements. Just how did I impeach my credibility by saying "you're probably a nuclear policeman" and "you probably don't own a dummy load?"
You and all the rest of the control freaks on here have been dispensed with, and that's what is important here. And, what might otherwise have been accepted as fact has been relegated to the status of what it deserves to be: fomented innuendo.
If you want to do something worthwhile to clean up the airwaves, go do some 11 meter DFing to find illegal amps in use. At least that's productive.
I thought you were "done wasting your time with this thread", or something to that effect...
KA8NCR
08-10-2008, 11:06 PM
And, my reason for that conjecture was...... your statements of having participated in several nuclear plant exercises of some sort. Or, close to that. Fair assumption, since nuclear utilities have their own procedures, commo, etc., and don't need hams to keep NRC compliant.
Ok.
If you want to do something worthwhile to clean up the airwaves, go do some 11 meter DFing to find illegal amps in use. At least that's productive.
I'm really not interested in CB. I find it far more profitable to worry about mask filters used with digital television transmitters.
If you have nothing more, let's talk about something else.
Where are the mods? This is a prime example of a thread that's going nowhere and should have been locked down several posts ago!!!!!
Is this somebody else that doesn't like the truth......?
K9STH
08-11-2008, 01:10 AM
EM:
Many nuclear plants definitely utilize amateur radio communications in their emergency communications plans. For example, in the State of Texas there are two nuclear power plants, one in south Texas which is operated by the Houston Light and Power Company and one in north Texas which is operated by TXU (this one is located south of Granbury, Texas, and is called the Comanche Peak Nuclear Steam Electric Station). In Texas there is a state authority with powers similar to the NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission). This Texas department REQUIRES that amateur radio be included as an integral part of the emergency program. There are disaster drills run twice each year and local amateur radio operators DEFINITELY participate.
In the case of both Hood County and Somerville County (the Comanche Peak property is located in both these counties) the local ARES organizations cooperate with the Texas department during the drills. Now Glenrose, Texas, the county seat of Somerville County, is located within the area that would first be evacuated in case of any disaster. Therefore, there is no emergency operating center in that city. The emergency operating center is located at the Hood County Annex Building in Granbury. At this center there are public safety communications, Comanche Peak emergency communications, school district (there are 3 school districts within the area), and amateur radio communications.
TXU had to provide all of the equipment for use at this emergency operating center. In fact, the company was required to provide antennas for 80, 40, 20, 15, 10, 6, 2, and 70 cm amateur bands. There is a 50 foot (above ground) wooden utility pole installed next to the Annex building with 2-meter and 70 cm vertical antennas installed. This was installed during the 10 years that I worked for TXU. In fact, I had to arrange for the installation of these antennas. The HF antenna is a parallel dipole strung between two utility poles.
TXU was also required to furnish two-way radios for use in all school buses with control stations located at every school and administration building in each district. Also, school maintenance vehicles were equipped with radios. There are also emergency sirens (radio controlled) located approximately every mile along all roads and highways for a 30 mile radius of the nuclear plant. These sirens were tested weekly.
During the time I was employed by TXU I had to be "on site" (as one of the company's "communications consultants") during the emergency drills. However, my primary responsibility was to insure that the company emergency system was working properly. The amateur radio communications were overseen by amateur radio operators from the local area which included several who were employees at the nuclear plant.
As such, I can definitely confirm that amateur radio is used at many nuclear power plants in their emergency communications planning. Therefore, I suggest that you retract your comments made in various posts within this thread.
Glen, K9STH
K9STH
08-11-2008, 01:17 AM
VO:
Although this particular thread has varied widely from its original topic just the fact that it has done so is not sufficient grounds for closing or deleting. Now several individuals are coming very close to violating the "rules of the road" of QRZ.com with posts that are getting pretty "personal". Therefore, I definitely "suggest" (you can read "demand") that such attacks cease else there may be some "time outs" issued.
Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators
AI4EP
08-11-2008, 01:54 AM
I keep things simple...use realistic htx - 202 for amateur commumication, and a seperate programmable police scanner for listening to any thing ABOVE 148.000....it all works great. I even get to LISTEN to the local 911 folks ( 154.355 ) and talk on my 202 at the same time on the 146.960 repeater . Modern technology at its best .
EM:
Many nuclear plants definitely utilize amateur radio communications in their emergency communications plans. .....
As such, I can definitely confirm that amateur radio is used at many nuclear power plants in their emergency communications planning. Therefore, I suggest that you retract your comments made in various posts within this thread.
Glen, K9STH
I don't like retractions. If I'm wrong, and I guess I am, I would rather admit it. Apparently, some now do. At least as you noted in Texas.
My personal experience differs. At least back in CA.
We used hams during the Diablo Canyon annual siren response activation test to monitor each siren location. Hams were not involved in formal emergency activities, just that test of the sirens.
The sirens and their selective radio activation system was paid for and maintained by the utility and operated by the county EOC. And, it was responsive on alert of the county EOC by the plant operators. It was my organization's maintenance responsibility.
NRC holds utilities responsible for uncontrolled radiation release alert plan and warning system compliance. If hams don't perform adequately, then who's accountable? Therein lies the problem. The utility is accountable, not the hams. Plus, my comment had to do with NRC requirements, not whatever state utility people might ask for. Texas apparently wants more than what the NRC does.
FEMA is now, by law, required to consult with hams in developing area emergency plans. Not required participation. Too bad we aren't, as maybe some of the wasted trunked junk expenditures wouldn't have happened if we had been more involved, me thinks.
AB8RO
08-11-2008, 04:05 AM
Not required participation. Too bad we aren't, as maybe some of the wasted trunked junk expenditures wouldn't have happened if we had been more involved, me thinks.
Huh? Are you trying to suggest that hams should be REQUIRED to participate in whackerism?
Huh? Are you trying to suggest that hams should be REQUIRED to participate in whackerism?
I meant that when Congress drafted the Bill, originally, it contained language requiring FEMA to include hams as members of planning groups and be more than just passive and on the sidelines. But, it was deleted. Probably at the behest of trunked radio manufacturer lobbyists....
The requirement was on FEMA, not hams.
KA4DPO
08-11-2008, 03:23 PM
I doubt very much that radio manufacturers had any weight in the decision.
FEMA uses radio systems for conducting emergency management, amateurs use radios for fun. When a professional agency requests assistance from amateurs they get it from the local EOC or RACES coordinators.
These are groups of amateurs who understand their role. They are volunteering to handle whatever communications they are asked to and nothing more. They know to stay out of the way and let the professional people do their jobs, not get in the way. Most important is, they use amateur frequencies to accomplish this. They don't transmit on other frequencies because they are not authorized to do so.
I think some clarification is needed as to the original intent of this thread. It is not illegal to modify an amateur radio in any fashion. It is illegal to use an amateur radio in an illegal manner or on unauthorized frequencies.
Thus it is viewed by most amatuers, I think, that modifying an amateur radio to transmit on frequencies outside of the allocated spectrum is a waste of time and is unjustified. I don't know of any argument that can change that perception. Most of us play by the rules.
AB8RO
08-11-2008, 04:39 PM
I meant that when Congress drafted the Bill, originally, it contained language requiring FEMA to include hams as members of planning groups and be more than just passive and on the sidelines. But, it was deleted. Probably at the behest of trunked radio manufacturer lobbyists....
The requirement was on FEMA, not hams.
Sorry, I misunderstood your language. If there's one thing I firmly agree with is that emergency use of ham radio remain completely voluntary on the part of the licensee.
KB2FCV
08-11-2008, 05:36 PM
As noted, it's completely and entirely illegal to mod a ham rig to transmit on public service frequencies.
That being said, why on earth would you want to take a rig like that into a fire? These radios are built for entirely different use. Radios for public service are designed to take alot more abuse than any hammy rig will.
Lets see.. you have the choice to use the department supplied commercial radio and your VX7-R.. which would you trust in that fire with your life?
I doubt very much that radio manufacturers had any weight in the decision.
I doubt that you know why the FEMA mandate to include amateur radio organizations such as RACES and or ARES as members of special, regional planning committees was stricken. It may well have been manufacturers who know very well that weaknesses (holes) in trunked technology might be exposed if knowledgable amateur groups were sitting on planning committees.
The Bill author, as I remember was from the State of Washington and a former public safety official himself.
The final Bill only suggested input be taken from amateur radio groups, no longer a mandated part of the process. Even ARRL publicized this "loss" for amateur radio.
Most important is, they use amateur frequencies to accomplish this. They don't transmit on other frequencies because they are not authorized to do so.
In the traditional role of amateur to amateur, yes. However, we all know that CAP, MARS, Coast Guard Auxiliary, and the SHARES network employ amateurs using amateur equipment (modded, amateur equipment) for the most part.
I think some clarification is needed as to the original intent of this thread. It is not illegal to modify an amateur radio in any fashion. It is illegal to use an amateur radio in an illegal manner or on unauthorized frequencies.
Thats absolutely correct.
I guess, its somewhat akin to Second Amendment rationale. The right to keep and bear arms. You could use them illegally. And, sort of the same thing applies to a fire extinguisher. You keep them for protection and hope you never need to use them. And, that they'll work when and if needed.
Thus it is viewed by most amatuers, I think, that modifying an amateur radio to transmit on frequencies outside of the allocated spectrum is a waste of time and is unjustified. I don't know of any argument that can change that perception. Most of us play by the rules.
I can't convince you, obviously, of my reasons why I want to "keep and bear arms" and I gave that up long ago. At the same time, I tried to say things in such a way as to not encourage use of un-type-accepted equipment such as the subject VX-7 for routine service anywhere but within amateur allocations. Its dangerous to do that for several reasons. Not the least of which is ability of the equipment to perform and continue to do so under arduous circumstances such as high heat, moisture and physical abuse. (Besides, officers talk of use of a Motorola Saber HT as a back-up baton fairly effectively. Couldn't do that with a Yaesu HT and it still be functional after knocking somebody out.)
It would certainly be a fool's errand to depend upon amateur gear for routine public safety use. Another way to risk one's life unnecessarily. Kinda like a thought that passed my mind about some cheap Russian ammo that my son in law bought to target practice with. About every 10th one misfired and jammed. If a Glock 9mm automatic like his was someone's service revolver and was loaded with that junk, well, I needn't say more.
73.
As noted, it's completely and entirely illegal to mod a ham rig to transmit on public service frequencies.
Please take the time to read federal regulations if you haven't read all of this thread. It is NOT illegal to modify an amateur radio.
It is, however, contrary to regulations to use it on non amateur frequencies under anything but "when all else fails" circumstances unless you are authorized to do so under MARS, CAP or Coast Guard Auxiliary auspices.
KB2FCV
08-11-2008, 10:41 PM
Please take the time to read federal regulations if you haven't read all of this thread. It is NOT illegal to modify an amateur radio.
It is, however, contrary to regulations to use it on non amateur frequencies under anything but "when all else fails" circumstances unless you are authorized to do so under MARS, CAP or Coast Guard Auxiliary auspices.
Good point, I should have written that a little more clearly. You can modify any amateur radio however you like. You CANNOT use it legally to transmit on police / ems/ fire frequencies EVER. MARS/CAP/etc is the exception if you are authorized to do so. The OP wants to use his radio to transmit on fire frequencies - can't do it... and STUPID if you're thinking of carrying a radio like that into a fire to USE when that's not a use it was designed for.
WA9SVD
08-11-2008, 11:57 PM
Redundant reply deleted. Sorry.
