ECHOLINK...To use or not to use

[Peggy]

A couple of weeks ago, a ham friend suggested that I try a new computer program designed just for hams called Echolink. #He briefly explained what the program was all about in an email message. #Before I even looked at the program, I had a preformed opinion of it. #But, being the curious person that I am, I took the liberty of downloading the program from the web and installed it within a few short minutes. #

With a few clicks of my mouse, I was talking to a ham in Europe with just a microphone and my computer speakers. #How amazing I thought! #And the audio transmission was clear as could be too! #I immediately fell in love with the program. #But I kept asking myself if these type of QSO's were really ham contacts since radio equipment was not involved. #I asked many of my contacts on Echolink what they thought about the program, and virtually all of them gave a thumbs up to the program. #

For some of them, Echolink is the only way to maintain contacts with their ham buddies since being moved into a long term care facility or group home that has a computer they can access. #For some of us who have antenna restrictions in apartments such as myself, I find Echolink most useful. #Also, you don't have the bothersome qrm and qrn. #You don't have to wait for propagation conditions to be just right for the band. #You don't have to compete with the big guns. #But the best thing about the program is that you aren't rushed out of a qso. #And you can have two or more hams involved in the same conversation. #

But I always come back to the same nagging question in my mind. #Is this ham radio or not? #One thing I am sure of is that it is just another mode of communication. #And no one but registered hams are able to use the program. #It will be interesting to see what roads the hobby will travel down these next few years and if programs such as Echolink will be recognized as an acceptable ham mode.

Peggy Thompson
KC7GZT #Tacoma, WA

[KB9YKY]

No, it is not really radio. It is just another "wireless internet" deal. The same thing can be done on any internet chat room.

[WD8OQX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I would say that if there isn't a ham radio involved some where in the link between you and the party with which you are qso-ing, then the answer would be "NO" it is NOT ham radio.

(this is my own definition/opinion) hope this helps.

73 - WD8OQX

__ # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
I wish to clear up any misconception one might have as to my view of echolink. I AM NOT against it. As a matter of fact I encourage exparimentation. That is the heart & soul of ham radio. As for whether I like it or not I haven't really tried it. I will when I get time but even if I don't like it I will never tell someone else that they can't use it (unless there use of it is violating some FCC rules in some way). All I was trying to do was answer the YL's burning question as to whether it was ham radio or not. Lets face it if there IS a ham radio in the link you had better consider it ham radio or be in violation of FCC rules.

Hope this make my view clear - WD8OQX

[K1CWB]

It depends... we have an Echolink node connected 24/7 to my 6M and 440 repeaters. It's created quite an audience and a lot of people use it. I would consider it radio when you are talking to someone using their local repeater linked through the internet. But, just having the program on both ends and talking directly, like others say, is just another "internet chatroom"

[WF7I]

I think it's a matter of what attracts you to radio in the first place. Is it communication, or is it the art of radio?

Communication by itself can now be readily accomplished via the internet. For those who strictly want to chat with others in far away lands, nobody can dispute the superiority of the internet. Radio, subject to shifts in propagation, or movement of satellites, or QRM/QRN, is far inferior from this perspective. If communication with others is your primary interest, then maybe the internet is your best bet. Whether you use Echolink or AOL instant messaging or ICQ or IRC, etc etc, if there is a predominant internet component, then the radio element is sort of an afterthought, if even a thought at all.

The very drawbacks of ham radio as a reliable communications medium are what draws many to this hobby who are excited by the art of radio telecommunications. Studying propagation, building better stations, competing with other ops, building your own gear -- these are some of what excites those are are primarily interested in the art of radio. Regardless of how communications technology advances, there will always be people curious as to how it all works, and wanting to try new things on the air. Granted you can also talk to others around the world, and free of charge, without the need of an ISP. But it will be unreliable.

It all depends on what you like to do. I know many people who are very active on the internet and also very active hams. One can wear both hats!

73s and enjoy, Bert

[W5MIT]

Well, it is certainly not amateur radio because it does not involve the communication via coherent electromagnetic emissions. In fact, it is simply Voice of IP when used in that manner.

Thats not a problem.... but keep in mind, that you might as well use Iphone, Yahoo! chat.

Most importaintly, echolink uses similar technology to your telephone. These days, telephone data is all compressed, digitized, and routed over special internet backbones.

But, I have used echolink for 1 month, and am very happy with it. I use it when I want to chat somewhere in the US or world on an HT walking around town. Thus, I think it is a great idea-- but I wouldn't get the impression that it is a replacement for amateur radio.

-Jon

[K2WH]

Oh no, not again. #How many times must we discuss these telephone modes. #THEY ARE NOT HAM RADIO!!!

Erase the program and pick up the mic.

K2WH

[whsmith]

I have decided to reserve my computer for logging, call sign look-ups, and other info, not the actual communication. Not to say there isn't a place for internet communications and digital radio modes. In fact, for a number of years, these areas have been my primary areas interest (profession). Personally, I have become intrigued with the challenge of using morse code (without a memory keyer/reader, ofcourse). I've decided that I want to be able to communicate without the computer in the loop. I want to maximize my ability to get through the atmosphere with my signals/receiver. I want to use my own hands and ears, not a computer. For me the challenge makes it even more fun and rewarding. Incidentally, while in the Navy I saw morse code used via flashing light on a routine basis by our Signalmen. I imagine that with a lazer flashlight one could probably get outstanding range now days, even without a radio. Just some light food for thought! You probably have heard of foxhunt contests using DF antennas. How about a contest that starts out with nothing but a flash light, leads one to a radio, and then culminates someplace where a digital mode is available and a message that tells where the party is! A scavenger hunt of sorts with clues leading to the location of the next (more sophisticated) resource and then a party!

Hello Peggy,
don`t think about that question any more. In fact, what is a QSO consisting of in general? Talking about softwear, weather and bla, bla, isn`t it ? So just go ahead and have an informative chat with a new friend and don`t worry about others opinion. Click on my callsign if you`re again in EchoLink.
73 and enjoy talking
DO5SG, Kurt presently in Helsinki, Finland

[KB9RSO]

O.K. Pegg, I'm also interested in IRLP I downloaded the program but don't have a clue on how it works! If someone can help please let me know how it works. Tnx. John

[N8PY]

The way I personally feel, is that when "using a radio", either for receive/transmit, THEN ALL FACETS OF THAT TRANSMISSION/RECEPTION SHOULD BE VIA RADIO WAVES. That's why I disapprove of using internet forwarding for our BBS or for packet clusters for that matter...that's why I (other than for maybe some initial experimentation) would never use ECHO LINK. The only way I would allow any radio to be connected to a web link would be for control operations only(Repeaters).

[na2a]

It's a way for those that can't or won't upgrade their licence to talk out of their back yard. Definately NOT amateur radio.

[k4vic]

We have a lot of fun with Echo Link here. We link a seldom used local 2M repeater to it and then the local sysop links to other repeaters. A lot of nets welcome Echo check ins. But is it radio?.....maybe...half and half http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif My voice is going in by radio and coming out by radio...no big deal..just fun! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kc9cor]

My first experience using Echolink was answering a CQ on a local 2 meter repeater and finding out the caller was in Arizona and I'm in Indiana. #No...maybe this isn't what ham radio is all about, and maybe it will keep those that "won't" upgrade happy, but what about those of us who are new to the hobby and have had a taste of what the rest of you know as DX? #It sure makes me want to get going on my upgrade so that I don't have to rely on the internet for this 'fix'.

[KE4MCL]

echolink...
cool? yes
is it radio? no, its just another chatroom for hams.
a way for us no coders to talk around the world? yes

nothing wrong with circumventing the code filter to get where you need to go. have need, will find creative solution. (insert pro-code flames in circular file please).

ke4mcl

[kc4qlp]

I've only been up on Echolink for a few weeks now and have had some interesting conversations...not all dealing with software,computers,weather or radio either.I'm trying to reason out any possibilities that Echolink may have regarding emergency communications...something to be looked at perhaps.As far as Echolink being true ham radio..no its not "true radio"...but its all in how you look at Echolink and its possible usefulness.With todays hams falling under antenna restrictions and other living conditions,this certainly helps those hams maintain some sort of activity base.Echolink is also quite helpful if you travel and you have someone back home to keep tabs on..or a buddy that lives many miles away and HF just isnt allowing the contact or perhaps HF isnt your ball of wax.Echolink certainly isnt going to be a replacement to radio as we know it,but it can be a helpful tool.
After having been on for a few weeks,I've decided to setup a simplex link and it will be up and running Jan,03. This will make my area up and running with Echolink stations from Newport News Va down to the northen Outer Banks of NC {two stations are currently up and operating in Va...there is a part-time station on the Outer Banks and then my station} Each station will have a degree of overlapping coverage.Anyhow..a few websites to checkout if your new to the idea--
http://www.qsl.net/k4lol/ilink.htm #and http://www.Echolink.org.
If your in the area checkout 146.590 after the start of the year and if your on Echolink,stop in and give a call on my station...its open to everyone to use...not just a few select stations.
Otherwise..see you all on HF {75/40 AM,20 SSTV}

73's
Bob
KC4QLP

[W9JAB]

I found echo-link to be very cool, It's just another way to play with the radio Don't take it so serious, its just a hobby.
# # # # # #
# # # # # # # # # # JOE

[KD7KHG]

Is Echolink radio? It sure feels like it when I run echolink it in sysop mode on 440. I'm almost certain I'm transmitting to my receiving radio at home via RF. Is it DX...No! Is it fun...Yes! Should we send QSL cards, be real. With the number of hams diminishing this is a new way of communicating with hams you would never meet otherwise or maybe gain the interest of potential new ones.

[W4CGP]

I cut my ham radio teeth on EchoLink, after I got my ticket but before I got any real equipment. I made a few contacts in my area, some on simplex links and others IP-IP. I don't care whether it's classified as true ham radio or not, it's definitely fun and useful.

If I wanted to make sure I was actually making radio waves when talking over EchoLink, I'd have to make sure to put a wireless NIC in my computer...:).

[n7wsb]

I tend to agree - its kinda fun to link yourself to another repeater and talk across the country or around the world with a handheld.

But... - its no real alternative to upgrading and playing around with hf and talking to someone in another country http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif - with HF its just you, your radio, antenna, the atmosphere and a little bit of luck - to me thats a bit more fun and challenging. With echolink/irlp its mostly all up to the telco companies who provided the wires and the protocols to make it all happen.

[ab5cc]

I am a 20 wpm extra class and have had an echolink node up on 2m simplex since May, 2002. #We really enjoy it in this area. #I and a few of my friends have made some great friends over echolink. #I do prefer to talk over 2m on my end and encourage newcomers to use RF links instead of their computers if possible. #If it is RF on each end, then it is ham radio to me. #I don't think it is of much value in a natural disaster, but it is fun and after all it is only a hobby and is supposed to be fun.

I don't think it is the same as a "ham radio chat room" if the hams on both ends are on RF. #I think it is more like a linked repeater........a linked repeater usually relies on electricity after all, doesn't it? #In a real disaster, the electricity may be interrupted and so might the internet be interrupted.

I read all these comments about it being a way to circumvent the code in order to work DX....well.....I have quite an HF station and can work all the DX I want, but I still find echolink to be fun......also, I know a few hams who have gotten a taste of "DX" over echolink and have gone on to get the general class license. #I say live and let live......have fun! #Don't worry!

[JJ1BDX]

EchoLink or eQSO or any other similar system will never replace the direct radiowave P2P (point-to-point) connection of the existing ham radio mode. So this is not a ham radio in traditional sense, if you want to mandate a condition of the P2P link. But if you accept the notion of repeater, and the phone patch, EchoLink or eQSO fits in the same category. I personally take EchoLink or eQSO a great enhancement of ham radio, and Internet, in both technological and social senses, because the channels are well-administered by ham radio ops.

Without eQSO, I would not have been able to chat with a station in Newcastle, UK, on voice/phone. This itself is amazing. As long as the legal restriction is cleared and the activities is well-administered under the ham radio social principles such as the Amateur Code, I have no problem accepting it as a part of amateur radio activity.

73/88 de JJ1BDX/3 Kenji 'Joe' Rikitake

[n6caz]

I came across one of the Echolink repeaters in my area just the other day. I live in San Diego, and couldn't figure out why someone was calling "CQ" and claiming to be in Connecticut on a 440MHz repeater. I was part of a club several years ago that was looking into RepeaterLink, which I figure is a similar idea.

I feel that it isn't really ham radio either if computers are at both ends, but linking repeaters to increase coverage (even if it uses the Internet) shouldn't be considered a bad thing. In fact, I tried to respond out of curiosity. The repeater is weak at my QTH, so some rules of radio still apply!

[wb4zoh]

I've used Echolink from time to time to have a conversation without QRM & QRN. Lots of fun just to 'chat' and sometimes the hookup has a high 'giggle factor'. The other day, one statio was in England going to work contected via their local repeater, myself at home, and the other in Sidney at an Internet Cafe. I think the three of us laughed so much it brought tears. Just a lot of fun for hams world wide.

[w7nb]

For many years hams led the way in new communication modes, bands, etc. Now we are leading the way in another form of digital integration into radio communications. I run a simplex linkwith a home brew sound card interface to a 2 meter radio that shares duty for my packet station. I sure enjoyed taking with another ham with in a mobile in Australia via a repeater linked to my base radio while I'm talking on a 500mw HT. QRP DX it's not but still agreat deal of fun - and how long will it be before other radio services use "Internet repeater links.

Define Ham radio - is it strictly HF CW or Phone? Does VHF count? How about EME? APRS? RTTY? PSK? Packet...

[kc8pnl]

John.
If u have questions about echo link, there is a yahoo group wich has knowledgable hams on it that you will most likely find usefull. Send an email to-
echolink-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To join.

Are all of these internet links to amature radio really amature radio? Who cares. It's another way to comunicate with others and if that is all that you want out of this hobby, than go for it! Why waste time debating such issues when u could be utilizing that time to comunicate with others about other things?

73 to all and hope to catch u on either HF or echolink

[KB9RSO]

Hello again WOW, got a few replys to my question. THANKS to all who replyed. Hope to make a con tact soon. 73's KB9RSO da dit da

[Debater]

Whether or not one uses or decides not to use Echolink should be a purely personal decision. When there are no radios involved in the communication then I would have to say "No", it's not ham radio. There are many instances on Echolink where part of the link is provided via amateur radio links on either HF or VHF/UHF, in such cases it would be difficult to argue that it isn't ham radio.

There are clearly pros and cons to Echolink (and other VOIP communications). Echolink has provided the means for previously inactive hams to feel like they are back on the air (even though they aren't). Those with CC&R and other restrictions against antennas can again communicate like they were back on the air again (even if they aren't). Young folks who are more interested in communication than the technical aspects of radio may find just enough impetus to actually get a license (you can't use Echolink unless you have a license). Communications are QRM/QRN free and there are no propagation problems. You don't need an outside antenna to talk around the world.

Now, let's talk about the cons. Some would say that promoting Echolink would result in fewer folks actually on the air. The use it or lose it theory would be violated in this case. I am struggling to come up with any other negative aspects....hmmm..
It seems that the benefits far outweigh the risks. If I were a doctor prescribing medication I would highly recommend the use of Echolink!

Have fun, enjoy the hobby and do what feels right.

[kf4vgx]

I have to say I am happy to see a conversation with out insults. Peggy I run a link to a repeater here in Myrtle beach S.C. the N4jth 147.285 Repeater /Node 25181 .I have met and had great conversations with Hams VIA Echolink. I guess its a Big thing knowing that each person that links here is logged automatically. I found that most Hams knowing that alone will carry a nice conversation ,very few qrm problems . Most of the people that link here in the Summertime are Hams on vacation . Doggone it The hotels and Motels just would not let Em throw all those wires on their properties! I have heard Hams sitting down on the beach talking to fellow hams back home That in itself puts a smile on my face . I just hate the idea of repeaters with all that is involved upkeep and the expence ! to have little or no traffic .Were also having nets to help promote ham relations check out the help net on Wednesday night's aroun 9http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0 eastern time in the N2LEN Conf Servers
We are now having discussions on how to help ARES in any way that we can Echolink is not about taking away from its about adding to Communications 73 all

[w4mqc]

EchoLink is controversial but I think we should all lighten up a bit. If we don't embrace new technology, and take advantage of all this internet/digital stuff, then we will lose big. We won't attract new people to the hobby. We won't broaden our interest base. We won't keep current with technology. In my book, two parties talking about ham radio related topics and sharing common interests is the most important thing....do it on EchoLink, 75m SSB, PSK31 or with 2 soup cans connected with a string. If you see this stuff as a threat or that it is somehow inferior to "real" ham radio (whatever that is), then think of it as just another mode of communication. Our hobby is rich with variety. Bounce signals off the moon....work thru a satellite...do a little CW....and now, add EchoLink to all the great ways to communicate with someone else who shares your avocation.

de W4MQC

[AC7RG]

I fished a lot when I was young. I used to stick my fingers in that ugly, smelly shrimp bucket and place that poor, rancid little piece of dead crustacean on the really sharp, intimidating hook. #Then with a 10 year old arm, I would heave that big fishing rod over the pier's edge, trying to get the line out as far as I could, so I could catch the Big One. #I remember those days still and the smell and the feel of the fish's tug as he took the bait. #I remember battling the surf, the wind, and even rain to reel the fish in. #I remember wondering what was so strong on the other end of that line as I struggled to keep the rod in my hands.

My mom and I would sit out on Paradise Pier in North Carolina until sunrise. #We would bundle up to fight the #cold, and get soaked when it rained. #She died a long time ago. #I still remember her showing me how to bait a hook and how to control that heavy rod when I would cast the line. #The ocean was dark and mysterious at night -- all kinds of strange sounds were out there in that blackness. #Sometimes I could see the faint lights of a fishing boat, or a plane. #The sea hissed like QRN and waves made the line propagate back and forth like QSB, making me think I had a bite when I didn't. #The air smelled so new and clean, and the world seemed bigger.

Someone gave me a fishing video game about 2 months ago. #I can't remember too much about it, except it was a small, plastic reel that had LCD pictures of black fish moving on it. #It made cheesy sounds too. #It didn't jerk when the fish took the bait and all the fish looked the same, and they disappeared once you caught them. #It kept score too. #Never ran out of fish and there was no rain, or wind, or sun. #There was no fishing line, no bait, no smell, no feel, just a little plastic game that tried its best to imitate going fishing. I got bored with it pretty quick and stuck it in a drawer somewhere.

"Where is fancy bread? In the heart or in the head?"
-- William Shakespeare

[kb9num]

I listened on the Echolink site some months ago to a repeater linked by their system, and heard rude comments about one of the hams using the repeater, one wise individual burping into the mic, and many, many keyups. Some of the less than charming things about a big city repeater system. I guess in that respect it is ham radio.

A repeater system I used to support has become involved in IRLP. Lately when I wish to use it it is linked elsewhere, and a qso is going on, most of the time one that I have no interest in. And it prevents me from using the machine. Since I don't own it I have no right to expect it to be waiting for me. But I do have the right to support other systems that aren't being controlled from elsewhere.

This thread is the first to give me a viable arguement why internet linking of repeaters needs to be considered by the amateur community: that it is a form of communications, and we are about communications.

I still recall, though, a ham a few months back claiming his children had a constitutional right to use echolink and talk over ham frequencies with no one at the control point (the children had no license). That type of attitude does trouble me.

[K6VB]

Echolink may be an interesting technology and a fairly reliable mode of communication. However, a telephone is a lot more convenient and efficient.

Any moron can setup an Echolink session on the Internet. It takes more technical skill and knowledge to properly setup and operate an HF or any other amateur radio station.

Don't kid yourselves - Echolink is NOT Ham Radio. Besides not being completely wireless (The Spirit of Ham Radio), it is utilizing a "commercial" Internet backbone to facilitate communications.

In spite of being a computer professional myself - I'll stay wireless for my Ham Radio hobby...

73,
Jim (K6VB)

[wa1trh]

Go back to the beginning and Amateur Radio was defined primarily as "experimentation!" That still is our best purpose and often we lead the way.

So support anything that makes the hobby more interesting to attracting new hams. If we do not USE IT we will LOSE IT to the spectrum hungry commercial wireless companies!

Change is difficult, just read what CW operators had to say about AM Phone when it was first invented!

[N3VMC]

I think echolink is a great idea. Ive met lots of wonderful HAM's all over the US and the world with it. Some of us can not afford expensive HF equipment and this is the best way to experiance a nice contact somewhere else in the world. I do admit that it is not HAM radio but 9 times out of ten I connect to a repeater and talk to someone mobile in that repeaters coverage area.

If people dont like echolink then they dont have to use it. Its plain and simple.

[W5HTW]

Let me preface my comments by saying I would not use Echolink, but that is a personal preference, and one I am entitled to have. I don't even like VHF, to be honest, though I enjoyed it immensely when it was station to station, CW or AM, and not through repeaters. Again, that is a personal preference, and again one to which I am entitled.

I need to also respond to this: Someone said, paraphrased, "this is communications, and that is what we are about, communications." That is not a qualifying statement for ham radio, for that is too broad, encompassing cellular phones, CB, business, broadcasting, standard telephone, and even the written word. We are NOT just about "communications." We are about "radio communications" (your license says "amateur radio license") and even in that definition we are far narrower, not including marine, CB, GMRS, etc. So we are not broadly about communications. In fact, under the rules of that statement, I am participating in ham radio at this very moment, by writing on my computer to a forum on the internet, as that is indeed 'communications.'

The question is, where do we want amateur radio to go? I think the future offers many challenges and I think there will be others come along that divert from the mainstream of ham radio and alienate the old timers of the time, just as did SSB when it came into vogue, and repeaters when they took over the 2 meter band from those who had been using crystal-controlled AM for years. Change happens.

The danger, though, is eliminating "radio" from our hobby. We concern ourselves about those in the wheel chairs in the nursing homes, or those living in strict neighborhoods with CC&Rs and they can't use ham radio. There is - or there should be - no law that says they have to. All of us have encountered insurmountable barriers in things we chose to do, and we simply chose something else to do. Unable to play sandlot baseball due to asthma and nearsightedness, I chose other things, despite my desire to play ball. But today we can not accept the premise that some people simply can not qualify to do some things, whether by physical infirmity or just plain old attitude. So we try to find a way around it. I'm not sure that is good for us.

Will I want to operate Echolink from my nursing home? I hope not. Perhaps I will. But it would be such an extremely poor substitute for one-one-one CW contacts, I just can't imagine it being any kind of satisfying. And I doubt it is for any other ham who has actually been on the air. We can play cards and flirt with the old ladies and have a hell of a lot more fun than sitting at a keyboard and "pretending" we are still a ham.

I think that's an excuse. Echolink isn't for the physically confined or the CC&R restricted. It is for those who find it fun, and that's OK with me, or for those who want to "work" (using the expression in lieu of a good one) faraway hams by close-up facilities supplied by and maintained by someone else, someone you may never know, and someone who, in fact, may be Verizon or AT&T or Ma Bell, rather than a ham with a repeater. There is certainly no possibility of any kind of personal achievement or challenge.

But then, ham radio has stopped being that, hasn't it? Nothing to do with code/no-code, but to do with effort/no-effort. And to do with challenge/no-challenge.

Like many others, I think Echolink will be around a while, and, perhaps as its good point, there are those who will try it, will find it leads them to something that is really ham radio, and if so, they will become bored with echolink. Also good, there are those who will try it, and will like it so much they will stay with it, and never even consider putting up their own radio station actually on the air. I welcome both attitudes.

When we remove the interest in "radio" as the driving force of our hobby, we have ceased to be ham radio and we become ham computer. That is already happening as the epidemic of "get the spouse and kids licensed so we can keep track of them" has spread widely, and the spouse uses the radio for that purpose only. That takes away the hobby and makes it a utility. It may be Echolink will do the same thing - remove the radio.

Maybe it will be called "Amateur Echolink License."

73
Ed

[KG4UMB]

Hello all.

I have been licensed as a Tech for around six months. I have made the bulk of my contacts through Echolink, and I love the program dearly, but nothing beats the three inch tall Japanese handheld that tends to burn your hand. Seriously though, Echolink is great, but there's just a certain satisfaction that comes with having that HT at your belt. It causes people to ask questions, and therefore it makes me a walking advertisement for our great hobby.

I believe that Echolink is Ham Radio, but again it will never replace the mike and key. It is by no means DX by my definition. However, because of our internet-oriented teenage set ( I would know, I belong to it.), it may be a good way to introduce the hobby to younger people, or to people who can't afford a radio at the moment. (Talking to my friends who are interested, that is not uncommon.)

So what is my argument? Echolink is great, but nothing beats the original.

73's all

KG4UMB

[Phineas]

What is the difference between CW and Echolink?

Nothing.

They are nothing more than modes that a person can choose to use or not use.

What is the big deal?

Phineas
K0KMA

[k1rfd]

Interesting discussion all the way around. #

Of course I hope many hams will try out EchoLink, but I also hope they'll keep their code speed and HF skills sharp, as I have tried to do, and continue exploring all the facets of this exciting hobby. #

The future is bright!

[kd5met]

Hello this is W5MET Frank and I run a Echolink gateway here in Texas on 444.350. To answer your question (Is echolink Ham Radio) well the truth is No NOT THE WAY MOST HAMS ARE USING IT.If you hook up computer to computer well then its just another internet chat program and I agree with all saying its not ham radio.

But That is not Echolink! Talking from computer to computer is just a option that was added to echolink that is not what it was made to do. The Program was made to hook up RF radio stations together using RF radios going threw the internet back out to RF Radios!

That IS ECHOLink.... RF to RF Now thats HAM radio ? I get upset when I hear its a phone it take no radio knowlage anyone can just set it up ... Yea your right to use the one option computer to computer (the online chat mode)

You All forget the 100's of us hams that have put up nodes for all you hams to use ... With no compinsation may I add. We do it for the love of radio I know I do it for that. HAM RADIO I love it ! Its a lot more than a internet chat program let me tell you.

Take My Setup ... I have a repeater 650ft in the air. (RF)Radio with antenna....I have a link radio (RF) linking Echolink over to the tower (RF) The link radio rev. (RF) back sends it to a board hooked to a computer/Radio and sends it threw my High Speed Cable Internet line out to another stations RADIO (RF) back out live on the air to talk with another ham live (RF) with his radio!
NOW IF THATS NOT HAM RADIO WHAT IS I ASK YOU

All the internet does is connect one area of the world to the next the rest is pure Ham Radio.With its QRM and all. ..Its been done for years over the phone lines hooking up linked repeater systems in the USA and that was ham radio. So please do not give echolink a bad rap just because some hams use it like a chat room. Many of us are not .... Thanks 73's
Frank W5MET

[w6dek]

I see K1RFD is watching this thread so I'll throw my $.02 along with a question or two.

First, let me say that I think Echolink is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I own a 900 Mhz repeater in the Los Angeles area (927.275) and I frequently link it to the world via Echolink using a VA3TO. Since there really are no amatuer radios manufactured for this band it brings traffic to an otherwise seldome used band. So much for the "use it or lose it" nay-sayers. When it's not linked to my 900 repeater, is is linked to one of the busiest repeaters in the world on two meters. This repeater has hundreds of users and so far over 40 callsigns using it via Echolink. Is it radio? You bet. Is it fun? Absolutely! There is nothing in this thread that hasn't already been discussed (debated) at great length on our local repeater(s). The bottom line? It furthers the enjoyment of the amatuer radio service for many operators.

Now my question(s) for RFD.

1) Because I am using my location for two links I must switch back and fourth between repeaters since I only have one IP address. On one repeater the link is "open" and allows all users. However the other link must be operated using the "allow only these callsigns" feature. The problem is changing settings and having to type over 40 callsigns back into the database every time. In a future release, would it be possible to incorporate several stored user profiles? That would make it much easier for me.

OR....

2) Will there be a way to host two different links from the dame IP address in the future? This would solve the former problem for me as well. Believe me I understand some of the securiy issues involved.

In closing, I think you have done an excellent job with the interface and the software thus far. I hope Echolink is here to stay. Not to replace or substitute, but to enhance and broaden the scope of amatuer radio for us all.

73,
W6DEK

[kd5giv]

I can say that it is one sided ham radio from what I know about it. I use something called IRLP in which is two sided ham radio but connected with the internet to make the trip from, say a local repeater to a distant one. For example, I can use my DTMF to dial a node from here locally to dial up Europe or countries in Africa. Even in Antartica there is a station 6 months out of the year. Go to http://www.irlp.org for information on that. The thing is that you and the other end must have a ham radio and license (or at least should). It is like talking on a repeater locally exept that repeater may be connected to a repeater in an other country somewhere.

[w6dek]

Echolink does the same thing as IRLP. The difference is it does more. You can link two repeaters, or three or four repeaters for that matter. Or as you said, link "one way" stations. One night we had a link in Japan, a repeater in Austrailia, a link in Scotland, and a repeater here in Los Angeles all at the same time. Stations going in using both PC's and RF. That's the difference betwen Echolink and IRLP. Versatility. You can connect all those stations on demand. As far as worring about unlicensed operators goes, we have that on the air waves anyway. At least Echolink "validates" callsigns before they are allowed access to the system. They are very deligent about that. More so than some unscrupulous sales people that sell amatuer equipment to unlicensed individuals.

Next......

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Phineas @ Dec. 03 2002,21:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What is the difference between CW and Echolink?

Nothing.

They are nothing more than modes that a person can choose to use or not use.

What is the big deal?

Phineas
K0KMA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Echolink is hardly a mode. The mode is voice, known commonly as phone among hams. The method of delivery is over repeaters if it involves ham radio at all. If it is computer to computer then it is still voice, computer chat. I suppose one could use CW over Echolink, but I wouldn't know why.

Lots of Hams are using Echolink and enjoying it. That is fine, but lots of us also drive cars, and sail boats, and do other things that aren't Ham radio. And that's fine also.

[namlrc]

Well, every time something new comes along, some are for it, and some are against it. #There's no code vs code, contesters vs ragchewers, now E-link. #I don't have it installed on my computer, but our club has a 24/7 link on the rptr, and it sure is fun to be driving, bring up the link, and randomly start a ragchew with who knows where. #Brazil, mobile to mobile at 3am. #I'M transmitting, he's transmitting. #And it's fun. #So like Peggy, just give it a try. #Like no code, it doesn't bite! It's here, and it's gonna get better. #Besides, there are those hams who can't operate on HF.

AI1B

[KG4RUL]

If it involves radiating and receiving RF energy on one end (a wireless LAN or a microwave relay point, etc. does NOT count), it is Ham Radio. #If it is computer to computer, it is a chat room. #Not rocket science here!

Dennis - KG4RUL #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KD7LRJ]

In order to get onto the EchoLink system with the setup I'm running, a user's signal passes through at least 7 radios! #The user only controls two of them (full control of his own, and partial control of the link), but someone else has set up the other 5. #In this case, I have worked with the repeater owner (and the organization that sponsors it) to configure the repeater for use with EchoLink. #It was fun getting into the guts and changing stuff around in the radio and the controller to learn what things worked best and so forth.

At my home where the link radio resides, I built and setup the antenna (while it was snowing of course), configured the radio, built the interface to and configured the computer and installed the software. #This was all very engaging for me and continues to be. #I like listening to other people talk on the system and hearing comments once in a while at meetings saying that they liked listening even though I haven't heard them talking on the link. #As I move my APRS I-Gate along with its associated equipment from my office to my home, I will need to make sure that they don't interfere with each other. #I have enlisted the help of some local experts who have done this sort of stuff before.

Regarding the rest of the RF linking: #Although it's nearly a commodity these days, it was still interesting to me when I installed it. #I didn't build the 2.4GHz antenna on my roof, but I could have. #Since I am working with a startup Wireless ISP for my connectivity, I helped them install the system (up on the roof and at their office troubleshooting both ends of the connection). #Getting sufficient power to the network bridge located 30 feet in the air across a long roof and down into my basement was quite an excercise. #Choosing which link to point my 802.11b antenna at was also interesting since there was more than one I could have used. #Maximizing the signal strength and signal/noise ratios while not difficult, will probably need to be done again in the spring as the trees in my line of sight path grow more microwave soaking leaves. #I'll send my son up with his HT and watch the levels down here as we optimize the signal. #From the access point I link to, there are two other RF connections before the signal gets onto copper at the local CO (which is right across the street from the last RF receiver).

There are a lot of things in this system that have to be running right in order to have the system work. #The fact that it will all go down if there's a local disaster is OK with me because I've designed the system to be supplementary. #It's here as just another tool that may be beneficial someday, somehow. #Some people are exploring ways that the system might be useful in an emergency. #But, unless people know about its capabilities and limitations, it will truly be useless. #FWIW...There will be a few people on the N2LEN system (node #6427) tonight (Dec 4) at 9pm EST (0400z) discussing the possibilities.

I still use other more traditional methods to communicate as well (anything from mirror signaling to sign language), but I have very much enjoyed myself in this particular corner of Amateur Radio.

# ...Doug #KD7LRJ
# Lindon, Utah
# Net Manager, Utah County ARES
# Operator node #46049
# 24/7 EchoLinked to N7BSA repeater

[AG9M]

Peggy,
Talking to another ham "computer to computer" is not ham radio any more than if by phone. Don't confuse the two. But, if a radio link is in use at one end or the other, or both, then you are operating ham radio and you must operate accordingly. I have an Echo Link station set up and I think it is a good thing. My hobby is technology and that includes radio as well as some other media. Like it or not digital is here to stay. Some of the features in Echo Link will be standard issue on tomorrow's radios. Someday we will "block" a QRMer on the repeater. Stolen radios won't transmit. Caller ID will tell us that someone tried to reach us while we were away. We won't have to continually ask for phonetics on names and calls, they will be on the screen. We can get back to COMMUNICATING.

I know a man who is using Echo Link to spark interest in ham radio clubs in the local elementary school.

Thanks to K1RFD for making Echo Link available and controlling access properly. This is fun.



Have fun and don't worry about what others say.

[kc5eql]

Every Friday, one of this areas’ (NE Okla./ NW Ark.) repeaters, 147.375 (KJ5BJ) hosts the Friday night traders net. This is a “swap” type net that I have listened to quite a bit over several years now and check in to occasionally. (antennas and work schedule permitting) For quite some time, during the net, this repeater has been linked to WA5LVT, 146.880 in Tulsa, OK. For around a year or so , the repeater has been also utilizing internet linking. (currently EchoLink on the Blue Mountain server) It is interesting tuning in the net over the air and then connecting via EchoLink (I didn’t know the time lag was that long, but I am on a slow dial up connection so that may have something to do with it) How did I check in to the net? Over the air, of course. After all, it is a local repeater.
EchoLink and other similar link systems are a fascinating application and, as hams, we have an opportunity to experiment around with it. I’m sure that at some point, if not already, some commercial venture will adopt the technology, and charge outlandish user fees to do what we can do now for the cost of the electricity to run the equipment. Is it radio? No, not in of itself, but that is not the point. It is a linking method that utilizes both the internet and radio and it is a lot of fun. I urge those who have not tried it to give it a shot . If you like it, fine. If you don’t, that’s fine too. Nothing can replace the “radio” experience. Internet linking is not meant to, it is just another method of communication.
Matt Smith
KC5EQL

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w2sky]

In Rochester, we enjoy EchoLink on out Ham Radio Repeater. #We use a Ham Radio Tranceiver to enjoy interesting QSO's. #I am told that one needs a Ham Radio License to access the repeater.

During School Club Roundup if February our 6th grade classes will be using EchoLink and a HT to talk to other schools. #They will have fun and be told that this is ham radio!

Schools wanting to schedule contacts with Jefferson Middle School on HF, IRLP or EchoLink contact W2SKY. #We will operate Thursday Feb. 13, 2003 only. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
RARA RAdio Coaches (http://www.rochesterham.org/radiocoach.htm)

[KB9YKY]

That's why more people don't get interested in amateur radio. They get the impression that amateur radio is just kids playing with walkie-talkies/repeaters.

[W9JCM]

Thanks for the article Peggy. I have been playing with Ilink/EchoLink for a while. I ran a simplex gateway and use the user/computer only end. Is it real radio? You know I really hate that saying. Of course its "real radio". The people that make the quote are the same who say CW is "real radio" when the big SSB hit. Or they say 2 meters FM isnt "real radio". You people have to get this into your heads that Amateur Radio is a wide and growing hobby. This is part of the New Breed of computer control, Links , digital voice, etc........

I had allot of problems from the "real radio" gang whining about the link here. When they finally grew up I had very little use of the system so I rarely run it now. But I often use the system from the computer only side to chat with a few friends in England that I met through ILink/EchoLink. Now I wouldnt ask for a QSL card but, If a guy or gal sends me one for this mode I would gladly return one. Bottom line if you don't like it don't use it and don't bad mouth it! Maybe I don't like contesters I am not on the air whining about it all day. Relax and have fun, enjoy your hobby and promote it do not demote it.
73 W9JCM John

[KB9YKY]

It is not a MODE. The mode you are using is FM phone. That is the mode that your walkie-talkie and the repeater that is hooking to telephone line is using.

[Phineas]

KB9YKY

Explain this if echolink is not radio.


I went to a radio station locally. This radio stations was in a regular office building, no antennas. I asked the radio person giving me the tour(He is a ham by the way) "What are you using to link with your transmitter?".
He leads me to a room with a T1 connection that is linked the the remote transmitter. Thats right, ATM. The same thing the internet runs on. Would you tell me that because of how they are linked, they are not a TRUE radio station? Even though the end result winds up being broadcasted over the air?

Phineas
K0KMA

[KB9YKY]

Virtually all television and radio broadcast stations are linked between the studio and transmitter site. You had to tour a station to know that? Commercial stations are not amateur radio. What made you think that they? They hav e nothing to do with automatic teller machines either. If you really believe talking on the telephone is amateur radio, have fun http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You will save a bundle on antennas, support structures, and feedline. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[redwords]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Dec. 02 2002,09:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, it is not really radio. It is just another "wireless internet" deal. The same thing can be done on any internet chat room.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OK try using a chat room while driving around through your 2 meter rig. c'mon folks, at some point radio is involved, and if you bitter older hams dont let inovation move in, just let your grandkids, and there future kids, keep playing those educational video game, and enlarge there backsides, cause Amature radio, is not exciting. it sparked my sons intrest, even though he recieved his ticket 2 months earlier. plus it leads to other modes down the road, but heck, those who oppose probably still think phone should be banned! #2 meters is hopping and it isnt because local clubs have promoted amature radio. oh yeah why is Yaesu coming out with WIRES, guess they cant let the competition move in.

Love working VK stations from capecod with an HT it is great!
73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[K6VB]

You guys keep forgetting a minor detail:

Echolink is connected by the Internet backbone which is a"COMMERCIAL" service!

Folks, utilizing this service is not for free! Someone pays for your link to the Internet. Most likely you or your employer's monthly ISP fee and this fee is for PROFIT!!!

They do not give you access to this service from the goodness of their hearts.

This alone violates the Amateur Radio Principle.

Echolink is not Amateur Radio.

73,
Jim (K6VB)

[kc0ioc]

Power comes from commerical companies. Using commerically provided power violates the amateur radio principle - the power bill you pay to use amateur radio is making corporations rich.

This alone violates the Amateur Radio Principle.

Using electricity is not Amateur Radio.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Love working VK stations from capecod with an HT it is great![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Thing is, you are not. You are working a local repeater that is tied to another local repeater with a phone line. That repeater connects to the VK station. The work is not done by your HT, or unless you built the route, you. No special skill is involved. This kinda defines appliance user. It would be even more appliance use if you did it from your computer.

Please don't get me wrong. If you are enjoying this part of the hobby go for it. This hobby has many expressions, and there should be some part for everyone. I have fun with my home made antennas, connecting with radio waves. Unlike my elmers I didn't have to build my radios. Others have fun with HTs that connect to the internet. To each their own.

[kl0ad]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Dec. 02 2002,11:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh no, not again. #How many times must we discuss these telephone modes. #THEY ARE NOT HAM RADIO!!!

Erase the program and pick up the mic.

K2WH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I do pick up the Mic and access our local Echolink node on 2m simplex.

Mark, KL0AD

[w0gac]

Of course it is Ham Radio... I use a wireless mic, a wireless keyboard and a wireless mouse to talk on Echolink via my wireless network, which is connected to a Motorola cable modem that uses RF to connect to my ISP. While talking on Echolink, I go to the kitchen and use the microwave to warm up my coffee. I answer phonecalls on my cordless phone and on my cell phone too. Then my big old computer monitor finishes me off with all kinds of EM radiation.

I have RF comnig out of my freaking ears!!! #What else do you want...!!! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc2ftn]

Not ham radio eh? I'm sure Samual Morse said the same thing when microphones were invented.

[kc2ftn]

Not radio eh? I'm sure Samual Morse siad the samr thing when microphones were invented!

[KB9YKY]

Mr. Morse had passed away before the microphone came into being. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KB9YKY]

After the microphone came along, about 20 years later came radio. Then after another 10 years voice was transmitted via radio. Mr. Morse would be pleased to know that his code when used with radio is after all these years is the means that the cw remains to be the most efficient and reliable mode of radio communication. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[AA0KM]

Power comes from commerical companies. Using commerically provided power violates the amateur radio principle - the power bill you pay to use amateur radio is making corporations rich.

This alone violates the Amateur Radio Principle.

Using electricity is not Amateur Radio.
=========================================
Of course it is Ham Radio... I use a wireless mic, a wireless keyboard and a wireless mouse to talk on Echolink via my wireless network, which is connected to a Motorola cable modem that uses RF to connect to my ISP. While talking on Echolink, I go to the kitchen and use the microwave to warm up my coffee. I answer phonecalls on my cordless phone and on my cell phone too. Then my big old computer monitor finishes me off with all kinds of EM radiation.

I have RF comnig out of my freaking ears!!! #What else do you want...!!!

Give Me More!!!
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N1QQ]

Echolink.. Yes, it can be just computer to computer chat.. OR, you can access a simplex channel somewhere in the world, conferences, repeaters, links.. Lighten up....It's fun!! Use of Echolink is for licensed amateurs. It is great for those of us have a temporary lack of space or CCR to install an antenna too!! I constantly hear, 'Is it Ham Radio'? Sure...Yes, there is a phone line and computer involved...but so is there one when a repeater uses an autopatch, or a simplex autopatch, or may have a location with audio linked by phone.. Yep, I call it Ham Radio...and I call it fun!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Another way to communicate, and promote the hobby.

[kb7gjy]

Ok.. so let me get this straight.. if you dont pick up the mic then you are not on radio.. a few questions....

Packet.. or Telnet Packet? Is it really ham radio if you are using packet over a telnet connection?

C.W.? I mean honestly you didn't pick up the mic.. just a key?

Amtor? RTTY? look at all the modes.. How about SSTV? or WeatherFAX? I can download WeFAX off the net.. does that make me less of a ham operator?

I have to say.. I'm sure this is the same type of deal when on when Packet was introducted.. Its not reall your using a computer...

All I can say is this.. Mark my words.. If Ham Radio can't/wont grow and change with the times.. Then it is a dead hobbie.. Like all things It must adapt to its suroundings to survive.. Does this mean you must stop using CW? RTTY? Voice.. Heck no.. I will be the last to cast a vote saying no to CW on the air.. BUT!!!! I will be the first to vote to allow new ways to utilize amatuer radio for fun and hobby as long as it is still structured, IE licensing (sp) as I'm sure we can all agree we do not want to see our bands turn into the C.B. bands (Which have "kinda" been improving, sort of. not by leaps and bounds but... I do believe that there are others out there that are tired of the BS and have been trying to clean up the CB channels, as I have heard and spoke with them..

Well, sorry to stray off the subject a little, but Radio must adapt or we will all lose. and I for one have worked hard and will continue to work hard for Amatuer radio...

KB7GJY -------- Allen ---------- Spokane, WA

[kc8pct]

Hello All

Just wanted to add my 2 cents about echolink. I am not going to argue that it isnt truly ham radio as we know and love it, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, shall we? let me explain.

After reading about echolink on this forum, I got the software and started making contacts. I have made a number of new ham friends linking through the ultra-friendly WB6BJM repeater, Hollywood, CA. Also talked to a ham in australia, and in other locales as well.

let me say I dont care that it isnt truly radio. I live in an apt. and cannot string antennas and run HF power so this is a nice substitute. Notice I said substitute, not replacement.

It allows me in some small measure to enjoy amateur radio talking thru repeaters I would never be able to otherwise.

'nuff said?
73 to one and all
Gary, KC8PCT

[n1lef]

I have only read the first page of replies, and like everyone else I have an opinion about this, Mine is that I think it is a good alternative for those who cannot run their radios because of anttena restrictions or being placed in a long care home where they can not have opne, but have access to the internet. for a long time I was wondering when the two would combine, some would say it is the way times have changed, others would say it isn't real because their are no radios invovled directly. Well we use the computer for a lot of other things invovled with our radios ex: log books, radio control, rtty , packet, etc. why not allow this for those who have put in their time at working radio for all those years, and allow others to make contact with them and learn from their knowledge? just my opinion,

73's to all who read this.
Bill N1LEF

[sq5ebm]

well what's the deal??!?! it is nothing else that ICQ or polish GG or Tlen

another internet communicator, only except of names and nicks u get callsigns.

It ain;t ham radio.. it's internet... i it would be connectd to TRXs all over the world and you could speak to guys in Honduras connecting via the Echolink .. that would be great.

u enter as voice on 2m on some internet reapeater that is conected to the internet then you dial a code via dtmf to connect via inet to an HF station in England(or somewhere else) where your voice is transmited from to stations using HF TRXs

that would be fun .. but what echolink is -is just another version of an "old" internet communication software

over last 7 years (since i have an inet. connection) i've seen software like that come and go
73 de SQ5EBM
Maciej "Miles" Muszalski

[N8FXH]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif While it is true that one at least one end this is not radio, if connected to a link to a repeater it can involve radio transmission. Also for those hams who have had to move into areas with antenna restrictions this can be a very good way to keep up with old friends. I enjoy using it when I am tired of HF or no one is answering on VHF...I think it has its place but it will never replace the thrill of calling a DX Station in a pileup with only 100 watts and getting through on your first call and getting a 5/9 report....I intend to use it to keep up with guys I talk to on VHF when traveling....Besides Echolink is like a good mold, It Grows On You!....Hal

Seems to me.... We a have on one hand hams who are 100% sure its not radio...
and on the other hand we have hams who use it and wouldn’t live without it!

I have used echo link for over a year.. even back when it was called ilink...

I run the 2 meter w0ant repeater in Des Moines, Iowa
I use Echo link on that repeater 24/7

I use a handy talkie... Everyone I am talking to no matter if they are in Moscow
or under my antenna at the repeater site is coming to me.... Over my radio..
They are licensed to do so and we talk about ham topics...

So what the #$%^&* is your problem you stick in the damn mud old goats...
get a life and get off QRZ if you don’t like computers and the Internet you hypercritical
hams who have a 2X4 stuck in your eye that you cant see the fellow ship and togetherness’.

Echo link brings a lot to our ham community by allowing hams all over the world
a chance to talk to me over my repeater.... That normally would have never happened any other way...
I have talked to Korean hams over the last year at length for hours and hours.. something that
I never could do over hf in my over 20 years a licensed ham.......... I have made more lasting ham friends
With echo link in the last year then I have as a active ham in over 20 years of trying to do so!

See you on Echo link… That’s where I will be…. Better there than a damn AOL chat rooms
Most non active hams have found and have left our great hobby!
Better on echo link than talking to someone who claims to be a man
and is a crossing dressing axe wilding weirdo………

Call echo link Internet radio or whatever you want to call it…….

I will use it and absolutely LOVE IT…. until they
pry my dead cold hands from the damn handy talkie !!!


My echolink repeater and web site...


http://www.w0ant.s5.com

Des Moines, Iowa

[kb9num]

W0ANT said:</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So what the #$%^&* is your problem you stick in the damn mud old goats...
get a life and get off QRZ if you don’t like computers and the Internet you hypercritical
hams who have a 2X4 stuck in your eye that you cant see the fellow ship and togetherness’.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Until now this thread had held a fairly high level. Now the slide starts.

Your assumption that folks that disagree with you don't like computers or the iternet is patently false. I don't recall anyone who said that those tools are incorrect. Or that there is no place for computers or the internet with hams. I think most hams are computer literate and use computers and the internet to enhance their enjoyment of the hobby.

It is not hard to determine if a computer is radio. Computers may have some similar features, and some similar uses, but a computer is not a radio no matter how hard anyone wishes.

The internet is not radio. At times it may serve the same function as radio, but it also is fundamentally different.

Echolink can be a means to access a computer and the internet through radio. And there is no doubt that the portion from radio to compuer is radio. From there on until it becomes radio propagation again is not radio no matter how much anyone wishes it to be.

As I said in a previous post I listened for several hours a while back to the repeater connected to the echolink site. It behavior on that repeater is typified by the quote I started this post with. I am sure that this is not the norm for echolink users, but I have no interest to hook up to a repeater in a remote location to hear that type of communication. Sadly the internet seems to bring that out in some folks, and the radio link doesn't filter it out.

Bottom line is that if you like the echolink connection use it. Knock yourself out. But no matter how strident you are in defending it Echolink is still a computer communication method with incidental (certainly not mandatory) ham radio interface.

blah blah blah is all i hear..

I am soooooooooooooooo
glad you do not like Me or Echolink...

I want nothing to do with You or
closed minded people like you...

So be gone....

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w0ant @ Dec. 07 2002,06:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">blah blah blah is all i hear..

I am soooooooooooooooo
glad you do not like Me or Echolink...

I want nothing to do with You or
closed minded people like you...

So be gone....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In reality it is not about you at all. And I neither like or dislike you. Or Echolink for that matter. I said if you like it, use it. I just wonder why all the effort needs to go into defending this use of technology. And the need to name call and insult that you chose to start indicates your lack of a reasonable defense for your position.

I choose not to tell you to go away. Your ideas and comments are welcome in this public forum. The only requirement is that you allow others their rights as well. And people do have the right to disagree with you.

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Phineas @ Dec. 04 2002,14:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KB9YKY

Explain this if echolink is not radio.


I went to a radio station locally. This radio stations was in a regular office building, no antennas. I asked the radio person giving me the tour(He is a ham by the way) "What are you using to link with your transmitter?".
He leads me to a room with a T1 connection that is linked the the remote transmitter. Thats right, ATM. The same thing the internet runs on. Would you tell me that because of how they are linked, they are not a TRUE radio station? Even though the end result winds up being broadcasted over the air?

Phineas
K0KMA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Radio studio in office building. STL to transmitter. Transmitter to antenna. RF to public. Is that radio? Sounds like it to me. Key word? "Transmitter." Key word? "Antenna."

Radio studio in office building. T1 connection to web. Public listens to radio via web. Is that radio? Nope. Not a radio anywhere in the link between the studio and the end listener. Just internet.

So I'd say the radio station you visited was indeed a radio station! Had a transmitter and an antenna, and transmitted RF into the air. To relate it to ham radio, you could call it a remote base. But the communications link to the listener (receiver) is radio. RF. Antenna. Signal being radiated.

Many radio stations today use satellite links for programming. Studio in office. Audio to phone lines. Phone lines to satellite ground station. And then, as much as I hate to admit it, RF to satellite, and then to downlink, which is picked up (via RF) by subscribing stations. Then it is piped to the local control board, and then to, yep, the transmitter and the antenna. It's radio, both at the final transmitting end as well as the intermediate RF link to/from satellite. And it replaced many thousands of DJs, news personnel, announcers, engineers, and air/production staff at hundreds of radio stations around the nation. But it's radio.

In that sense, so is Echolink radio. Somewhere along the line there is a radio connection, at least as I understand it. So it's radio. But is it in the spirt of ham radio? Depends upon what that spirit is. It used to be to do things, to achieve, to meet challenges and surmount barriers. As we redefine ham radio, perhaps this IS the new hobby.

As we redefine ham radio into internet?

73
Ed

Too shay: My dear Hamateur friend;

Besides your ability to copy and quote me
and put me into the sole bringing down of the
Neighborhoods like you so admittedly
brought out so eloquently by my posting in the thread.

You did miss almost 99% of everything else
I did have to say and picked up only on my most
Frustrating and profane accomplishments in that thread.
Leaving the total point of the post untouched and mostly disguised!

However I guess my free speech is a slide in the
wrong direction of your high standards and
impeccable moral behavior which is of course
exemplarily in stature by you’re mere condescending
tones of morale value and perfect morale stature.

I would like to meet you and possibly have your bust
Modeled and put in the town square where small
Children can beat their breasts and say he was our
Towns most morale and upstanding citizen alive
Or dead..

You should be given the highest honor
of compassion and empathy and respect for all human kind.

You are a living town treasure and a perfect example
Of decency and morale fortitude. You are to be revered forever
In bronzed fashion and your Loral’s will never die.

Thank you for your comments I will cherish them 4 ever!

[wa1wok]

there is Amateur "RADIO"
then I guess there is "Amateur TELEPHONE"
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Echolink, is it ham or another device to get our money, for everyone to make money. I tried and did not like. Why pay for something like that when I already pay for a telephone, internet service. I chose to get into Ham radio for the purpose that it was free after I got my ticket and radio equipment and after I homebrewed an antenna to finalize my setup.

What's next, a monthly fee to turn my radio on to talk to someone. If I wanted to pay to talk to another Ham then maybe I should write a program that has their phone numbers and QTH listed and put it on the internet so we all can give the money makers something else to profit from. Do we really need a small pox vaccine when the new strain is a mutated one, the current vaccine won't work. Just another scheme to make money for the profiters and greedy.

[kf4vgx]

There is no charge to use Echolink. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ITS FREE ! Some IRLP/Ilink charge for the codes and a yearly fee . Thats why I Use Echolink ( No Charge ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif . I agree Ham Radio should be free . The only cost is of the person who is buying a board /Useing VIOP so Hams my injoy . ( Its that hams Choice to do so ) We all have a different idea of of what we think ham radio should be . Were not all going to think the same http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif . Were not suppose to. It would be a Boreing world if we did. Suggestion : Dload the software or try it on one of the Echolink Repeaters in your area .If you like it ! Injoy it . If you dont like it. That is your option. We as Hams should at least TRY http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif . To ( EXPLORE ) new ways to bring interest back into this HOBBY ! 73 DE KF4VGX / Node 25181 M.B.S.C.

[kb9num]

What I would suggest is that anyone who enjoys Echolink or the other internet "modes" should enjoy them for what the are. As many have pointed out, including my new best friend W0ANT, many hams enjoy using the internet and computers for all kinds of things. Why not use HTs to access the features of the internet?

What does concern me are the Techs that I hear talking about how great it is that they don't have to develop their skills to make "DX" QSOs. My opinion is that misses the mark. Repeater DX may show some technical competence on the part of the system builder/operator, and the same goes with echolink. However is shows me nothing about the skill of the HT operator. For many of us the reason for being in this hobby is to build skill as well as the pleasant conversations we have. I continue disputing the concept that many of those getting into the hobby these days are appliance operators. It is getting harder to make those claims.

[N3VMC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0ioc @ Dec. 04 2002,19:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Power comes from commerical companies. Using commerically provided power violates the amateur radio principle - the power bill you pay to use amateur radio is making corporations rich.

This alone violates the Amateur Radio Principle.

Using electricity is not Amateur Radio.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I love that one.

You could also say that you use batterys which are produced by commercial companies - the amount you pay for those batterys is making corporations rich.

Or how about when your mobile...you use gas and isnt gas produced by commercial companies? You need gas to operate the car and the mobile rig.

Like I said before if you dont like echolink etc...dont use it. Nobody forces you.

[WD8PCU]

Hello to all Licensed Hams Worldwide.

I wish to comment on the use of Echo-Link and all other
forms of communications similar.

I think that Echo-Link and its associated programs are
of good intent. However I do have a few concerns of
same. Number one is that it is limiting the creativity
of the mind as was present in the past wherein projects
were actually conceived. Second I feel that the system
is in need of an "out of circle" evaluation. The system
par se is a promising one however if you look closely
at its approach in light of a regular chat room I am
afraid that the normal chat room will get the better
rating as far as solid audio delivery MINUS the "packet
loss" annoyance that we see continually. So I stand my
ground in saying that we NEED to use the Audio technology of the REGULAR CHAT ROOMS and blend it
with the CALL SIGN names as we presently have.
The only really BIG Problem that I have with ECHO-LINK
is that " annoying packet loss problem" that is when you
are in QSO with someone and their audio chops up and
then cuts off repeatedly.

Once that can be eliminated then and only then will we
see Echo-Link really attract a vast majority.

If and when the packet loss problem is corrected then I
see far more enoyable QSO's happening wherein we can
stimulate each others mind's with serious HAM RELATED
topics that are about growing in the HOBBY.

If the regular chat rooms CAN do it then we certainly should be able to given the talent that we have to draw on among ourselves.

73 for now to all. de wd8pcu http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kf4vgx]

I Understand your concerns on packet loss .I can tell you that most of that is from Hams useing lower baud rates to connect with , 56 K is ok if thats is all that is available . As with everywhere the cable Companys are in the process of changeing to Fiberoptic lines . So If you weigh the difference between packet and Server loss from QRM /pileups/Etc. Im betting the packetloss will improve ! As for the other you be the judge http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif . We learn new information on VOIP everday ( We wont learn anything by not useing it ).As for creativity I Implore you to setup one of these Stations .You can even buy the boards in a Kit .I bet you will injoy it as much as I did http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif . As far as a chat room is concerned. In useing it Computer to computer there is no need to even I D . Its just that to hams talking to each other .But when you link to Repeaters / Links . The voip turns into RF VIA of our radios your actually transmitting over live airways . Echolink hams show alot of courtesy as to a one on one conversation when other hams join in its passed around to the next Ham . I have people ask me everyday about that little radio attached to my belt .Or where did he say he was at ? So I then ask them how much do you pay in cell phones bills a month ? that starts a conversation that will bring some into this GREAT hobby that we all injoy 73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif . DE KF4VGX . Node 25181 / N4JTH 147285 Repeater system .

[KG4UMB]

Here's another thought from me on this insanely long argument:

I realize that i am just another one of those dime-a-dozen No-Code Techs and my opinions don't matter, but...

I keep hearing on this forum about the spirit of ham radio and other things. Well ask yourself: Is this the spirit of ham radio? Attempting to belittle and insult the choices that your fellow amateurs make? One of the first comments I got in my first QSO was "welcome to the fraternity of Amateur Radio" Now the word fraternity to me (aside from meaning a thing of wild parties in college) brings to mind a friendly brotherhood, where everyone is welcome and everyone helps each other. We are, after all, a public service. I recently wrote a paper for school about ham radio in which I made the observation "(choice of antennas, in this case) depends intirely upon the needs and personal preference of the operator" To each his own.

So on with the true spirit of Amateur Radio. Let's stop arguing and get on the air!

KG4UMB

[nv8b]

Doesn't matter to me if it's radio or not. #Hams experiment. #They have been doing it for years and I'm glad they do it. #This is more of the same. #Might #result in bigger and better. #Might be an end in itself. #Who knows. #It adds to the art or science, whatever you wish to call it. #

Hams also like to chat. #Check your local coffee joint on a saturday morning. #They use the telephone, they also catch an "eyeball" at the local hamfest. #No radio involved. #Glad they use all modes available. #


I only get concerned when the radio gear in the back room collects dust and burns no elecrricity. # So use your gear and enjoy whatever other modes/methods you like be they radio or not. #After all, #you used your computer and internet to post all these messages. #Didn't need a radio to do it. Right? # Have fun.

[w4et]

One thing I like about Echolink is that it enables me to work my brother on his repeater in North Carolina from Kentucky. It also allows folks who have moved away to check in to the local repeater where they moved from and keep up with the latest news and with old friends. Another thing I like about it is, even though two folks may not be talking through a repeater and are just talking through the internet ham radio operating techniques are used by most people.

One other positive -- I heard an 11 year old girl (tech) who worked her first DX station through her local repeater and experienced the excitement she felt as she worked England. He was on the internet and she was on her local repeater. That may be incentive for her to upgrade some day.

I would ask one question, why are there so many people who like to downgrade something they haven't tried or the people who desire to try new things? Why not just let folks experiment and you just operate the way you want, and the rest of us will operate the way we want and hopefully we can all get along.

73 DE Ron - W4ET

[wp3bm]

For me, Echolink is just another technology. I consider myself to be an open minded person. BUT, please consider this: If there is the chance that a non ham with a computer to connect to your repeater, then I frown to it. Echolink have a good selectivity in the preferences page to not allow computer users (chatters) to log in your particular operation. There is always the chance that somebody logs in as a machine and therefore "hack" into a machine. The people at Echolink, though, have a very agressive "customer service" and act inmediatelly upon complain against users who create problems.

Now imagine, if ISPs go sattelite and you have a two way internet dish, bypassing copper, would you then call that it, as long as the input come from a radio, is not ham radio? The copper line argument is that weak.

[KB9YKY]

W4ET, the 14 year old tech, that you mention, did NOT work any DX. She did NOT work England. All she worked was her local repeater. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[AG3Y]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So what the #$%^&* is your problem you stick in the damn mud old goats...
get a life and get off QRZ if you don’t like computers and the Internet you hypercritical
hams who have a 2X4 stuck in your eye that you cant see the fellow ship and togetherness’.

Better there than a damn AOL chat rooms
Most non active hams have found and have left our great hobby!
Better on echo link than #talking to someone who claims to be a man
and is a crossing dressing axe wilding weirdo………

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

With all respect to W0ANT's right to express his own opinion (after all, this is the United States of America), I believe that statements of this sort have gone WAAAAY #over the bounds of decency and restraint. #Rather than discussing only the issues and not straying into personal attacks, W0ANT has offended just about everybody who doesn't go along with his opinions and beliefs. #I am finding it very hard not to descend to the level that the discussion has dropped to, myself. #

I believe that W0ANT should apologize to everyone that he has offended, (which I don't believe will ever happen!) and in the future keep his opinions of his fellow amateur radio operators to himself. #I would like to know if he has become so blinded by his own self-esteem that he fails to see the irony of his own statements??? # If comments such as his are an example of the "fellowship and togetherness" to be found on his repeater, than I pity those that endure that "fellowship and togetherness" on a daily basis. #

A note to the moderator, #was it really necessary to keep an inflamatory post such as the one I quoted, "alive"? #

Sorry if my words have taken on a "personal attack" themselves. #I have done everything I can to focus on the attitude and content of the words expressed by W0ANT. #I am not intending this to be a personal attack on his character. #

Flame away if you must, but I really hope that it doesn't happen.

In the best interest of Ham Radio (no matter what form it takes)

Jim AG3Y

[WA2MDF]

I would remind all that the strength of ham radio is as it has always been. #In times of stress or disaster, services can easily go down. #Complex digital networks rely on the existence of support resources that can be vulnerable to disruption in innumerable ways. #Traditionally, ham contacts only require a source of power at each end of the conversation #- #along with earth's natural propagation effects in between.
I would say, do what's fun and what works and what is convenient #..... # but at the same time, let's NOT forget
how to network ourselves together in this most simple and direct of ways. #It is an art that might wisely be preserved.

Respectfully,

Jake # # WA2MDF

[KG4URD]

I'm a new ham and have been working with computers and the Internet for years. When I first heard about EchoLink, I immediately downloaded the software and gave it a shot. Yep, reminded me of a chat room only I was talking with another ham. Nonetheless, the software gathered dust because I like using RF for communication, not solely a computer. Then I said "Hey, let's link up our club repeater!" (N4SWR, 146.685 Node #56390) So after getting the blessings of our club officers, I proceeded in gathering the information and gear to get it going. I had a laptop that rarely got used, so there was my computer. I had a high speed DSL, so there was my connection. I scrounged up an Alinco DR-1200T for $50, so there was my radio. Not good at building stuff, so I bought a RigBlaster Nomic for $60. I needed a good antenna since the repeater is 25 miles away and kind of a weak repeater at that, so I put up a Cushcraft FM yagi and have that pointing right at the repeater. Now I gotta tell ya, the members are having a ball QSO'ing with all the stations that come in and we're all using our 2 meter radios! This is ham radio! Also, you folks that give EchoLink a thumbs down need to realize that many of us have put out time and money to give our fellow hams something to have fun with and not asking for anything in return. This is ham radio, too . . .

Thanks for letting me carry on!

73's to all

[Debater]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WA2MDF @ Dec. 10 2002,11:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is an art that might wisely be preserved.

Respectfully,

Jake # # WA2MDF[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Jake

Another art worth preserving is diplomacy, tact and consideration of our fellow amateurs. Many that post on this board could take lessons from you!

Thanks for injecting a small piece of sanity and common sense.

73

You are who I am talking about Sir!

I used no profanity or indecent terminology except I used the mere
Suggestion of it to bring you to dashing me with your written word as
A vagabond and a mere trouble maker oweing the ham populous a general apology!

You sir today are living in a fantasy world with little green elves and Santa clause... In what language did I offend your so delicate morality?

I know it was the use of use of #@%^* … ASCII characters.. You know that can really catch the FCC’s eye and inflame riots! Obviously it caught your attention!
Or was it my antiqued use of the words old goats… That finally sent you into cardiac spasms? Hmm seems the truth may hurt?

You want me to apologize ok here goes!

I apologize for Bill Clinton and his presidential view
of morality to the youth of today!

I apologize for holly woods stereotypical and ideological
values shoved down our throats everyday!

I apologize for all the old-timers who with distain ridicule
new hams into submissively quitting ham radio!

I apologize for the misunderstanding between
you and I...

But most of all I apologize on the behalf of the creator of Ilink and echo link for giving this free
program to a bunch of hams who cant see the worth of it.. or understand what it really is.

A tool to bring hams together from online and back into our
ranks where they belong beside us in fellowship and international brotherhood!

I am tired of this subject and its defense!
Go find someone who wants to play
Your witch hunting games!

JWL

WØANT

[KD7SRQ]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif You know, I didn't bother to read this WHOLE article, because after the 1st page, I was sickened by the ignorance of a lot of you.

1)Ham is supposed to be about communicating, learning electronics, and having fun! NOTb*tching about "No-Code" hams, or whether or not Echolink is "Ham Radio". It obviously both depending on the way it is done! If you have a radio on your end...for you it is both. If the other end had a soundcard and headset...it's just internet ham chat! SO WHAT! The whole point is they are communicating.

2)Why should being a "No-Code" be an issue on Echolink? It's not a way to avoid getting code. Just because I have Echolink doesn't mean I'm not going for my code! In fact I am halfway there! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif And maybe some folks CAN'T learn the code and theory. I can gaurantee there are Hams with ADD(attention defecit disorder) who are some of the best hams out here. Just because they don't have the ability to pass the code test...does that make them not worthy to talk to? I don't think so!! So just cool it! It's your loss if you don't like it.

3) How about those hams who WANT to use it for communications purposes(Wait...would that be most anyone?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif ) Maybe they cannot put a 200ft antenna up, or even a smaller antenna due to restrictions.

The bottom line is this...those of you who don't like it, don't use it. Just keep your mouth shut. You are ruining the Ham experience for new hams who would love to learn from anyone.

Echolink doesn't qualify anyone for cards, or awards...or anything special....SO WHAT'S THE FRIGGIN DEAL??!!

Just let the Echolinkers link....and leave them alone...Or get onto Echolink and see how much you may like it, or learn from someone.

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7SRQ @ Dec. 10 2002,17:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif #You know, I didn't bother to read this WHOLE article, because after the 1st page, I was sickened by the ignorance of a lot of you. #

1)Ham is supposed to be about communicating, learning electronics, and having fun! #NOTb*tching about "No-Code" hams, or whether or not Echolink is "Ham Radio". #It obviously both depending on the way it is done! #If you have a radio on your end...for you it is both. #If the other end had a soundcard and headset...it's just internet ham chat! #SO WHAT! #The whole point is they are communicating.

2)Why should being a "No-Code" be an issue on Echolink? It's not a way to avoid getting code. #Just because I have Echolink doesn't mean I'm not going for my code! #In fact I am halfway there! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif And maybe some folks CAN'T learn the code and theory. #I can gaurantee there are Hams with ADD(attention defecit disorder) who are some of the best hams out here. #Just because they don't have the ability to pass the code test...does that make them not worthy to talk to? #I don't think so!! #So just cool it! It's your loss if you don't like it.

3) How about those hams who WANT to use it for communications purposes(Wait...would that be most anyone?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #) Maybe they cannot put a 200ft antenna up, or even a smaller antenna due to restrictions.

The bottom line is this...those of you who don't like it, don't use it. #Just keep your mouth shut. #You are ruining the Ham experience for new hams who would love to learn from anyone.

Echolink doesn't qualify anyone for cards, or awards...or anything special....SO WHAT'S THE FRIGGIN DEAL??!!

Just let the Echolinkers link....and leave them alone...Or get onto Echolink and see how much you may like it, or learn from someone.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just a couple of points:

1. As a VE I see people who overcome all kinds of disabilites to become ham operators. #Even learning disabilites. #They participate at whatever level they choose, and enjoy the hobby. #If a ham is interested in putting in the time to join the hobby, or to upgrade, there will be an elmer willing to spend the time to help. #Guaranteed.

2. #You are quite right code doesn't enter into the discussion about echolink. #There is no code requirement for computer use.

The lack of civility is no more attractive on the pro-echolink crowd than it is on the pro-code folks ( I get on them also when they start the name calling). #If you have to resort to name calling seems to me you have lost the argument.

[kf4vgx]

Well Sir !You're Just a (VE )! Going out of his way to help the Ham Community. That gives you the right to post anywhere you please http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ! I personally thank you and all VE's for the ( FREE )time and effort you have given to fellow and upcoming Hams http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif 73

[kc4qlp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5met @ Dec. 03 2002,23:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hello this is W5MET Frank and I run a Echolink gateway here in Texas on 444.350. To answer your question (Is echolink Ham Radio) well the truth is No NOT THE WAY MOST HAMS ARE USING IT.If you hook up computer to computer well then its just another internet chat program and I agree with all saying its not ham radio.

But That is not Echolink! Talking from computer to computer is just a option that was added to echolink that is not what it was made to do. The Program was made to hook up RF radio stations together using RF radios going threw the internet back out to RF Radios!

That IS ECHOLink.... RF to RF Now thats HAM radio ? I get upset when I hear its a phone it take no radio knowlage anyone can just set it up ... Yea your right to use the one option computer to computer (the online chat mode)

You All forget the 100's of us hams that have put up nodes for all you hams to use ... With no compinsation may I add. We do it for the love of radio I know I do it for that. HAM RADIO I love it ! Its a lot more than a internet chat program let me tell you.

Take My Setup ... I have a repeater 650ft in the air. (RF)Radio with antenna....I have a link radio (RF) linking Echolink over to the tower (RF) The link radio rev. (RF) back sends it to a board hooked to a computer/Radio and sends it threw my High Speed Cable Internet line out to another stations RADIO (RF) back out live on the air to talk with another ham live (RF) with his radio!
NOW IF THATS NOT HAM RADIO WHAT IS I ASK YOU

All the internet does is connect one area of the world to the next the rest is pure Ham Radio.With its QRM and all. ..Its been done for years over the phone lines hooking up linked repeater systems in the USA and that was ham radio. So please do not give echolink a bad rap just because some hams use it like a chat room. Many of us are not .... Thanks 73's
Frank W5MET[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I've read the statements of...well its using a commerical service,and its not radio,its an internet chat room.
Well Echolink as what was just stated wasnt intended to be used without a radio..but that option is there to use.
Echolink actually radio?...no.
Does it use a commerical service?...yes.The telco system,the power companies,ISP's.
Ok..compare that to any ham setup.
Are you presently using a commerical service to operate your radio?..chances are at least 90% of us rely on the power company for day to day operations.
How many repeaters do you know of that use commerical microwave links for some repeater links?
I know of several.
On the issue of ham radio and computers....the ones "crying foul" over Echolink...how many of you use packet,SSTV,RTTY or any of those other "digital" modes on HF?
Should the attitude be that if its new to involve ham radio,we need to find a way to not use it? No
If the early ham experimenters had not been curious enough about spark gap transmissions and all that followed,we just might be communicating by smoke signals still.
There is certainly enough room in ham radio to use all modes of communications.Think of Echolink as one of those commerical backbone repeater links...that doesnt cost nearly half of a full fledged microwave link.
There will always be nay sayers in everything...good points and bad points about all things.
Dont knock it before you try it...and of course,everyone has different interest in ham radio..we are a well rounded group...thats the spirt of ham radio.

[kb1dig]

"ARES and Echolink"

A few points. #My thoughts regarding the use and availability of Echolink
during emergency events.

I don't think Echolink will replace HF, but it can be used in a good way
in time of need.

The power does not go out everywhere in every emergency.

Look at the 5 different basic modes of connection offered by Echolink.
Ham-Computer<>Web<>Computer-Ham
Ham-Computer<>Web<>Computer<>Transceiver<>RF<>Ham
Ham-Computer<>Web<>Computer<>Transceiver<>RF<>Repeater<>RF<>Ham
Ham-Computer<>Web<>Computer<>Repeater<>RF<>Ham
Ham-Computer<>Web<>Conf Server<>WEB<>Computer-Hams

Add perhaps a hundred other different combinations.

Take just this one for instance.
"Ham-Computer<>Web<>Computer<>Transcever<>RF<>Repeater<>RF<>Ham"

<>Some of the 2-meter repeaters up this way are solar powered and have a
100 mile wide footprint.

<>My ts-2000 transceiver, at 100 watts out, with a 5/8th-wave-x3 17'
vertical 2-meter antenna on a 50' tower, can bring up most all repeaters
within 70-miles+ of my home QTH.

Conventional:
Ham<>Transcever<>RF<>Repeater<>RF<>Ham
I live about 70 miles north of Boston. #My QTH is on a different AC
power grid and different internet connections. #I have AC and the areas
South of Boston falls dark from loss of AC. #Lets say because of an ice
storm. #The Boston Repeaters go on emergency backup power. #All
ARES/SATERN/NTS in New England go active....

Echolink potential:
I connect my QTH Transceiver to Echolink.
Now, for instance, emergency remote situations require a unique medical
task to be performed, beyond my capabilities and beyond my QTH. #I will
not claim knowledge or ability beyond my actual capabilities. #Only
this. #Effective an EMS or the hospital ICU could use Echolink connected
to this QTH's station, by ARES, improving the response. #This hospital
ICU could be just down the road, or as far away as California.

We are extending the chain.

Will something like this ever happen?

It's all a little mind boggling. #Kind of reminds me of when I walk
through the tool section at Sears. #(don't go in there) #I just can't
get through that place without picking up a new something. #Will need
this someday... #Perhaps Echolink is that new something we all should
have in our Ham toolbox.

The fun part is we get a chance to play around with Echolink, as we
learn to utilize it for emergency.

Our hobby is about communicating and experimenting for emergency use
someday. This system does both. #The world in changing. #Ham radio needs
to embrace new technologies, and concentrate on those aspects that are
unique. #Let's face it. #Echolink has new unique aspects.

I'll get off the soapboax!
73@be good!
Steve KB1DIG ;-)

[W4JRD]

I've used Echolink and Ilink and in my opinion even if you connect to the a repeater connected to the internet via radio it still not 100% radio and it takes away from the hobby. Why buy or build more then a cheap 2 meter station if you can connect to the local repeater and talk to Australia?? What is the use to upgrade? Can you give me one reason to better your station or to experiment with better antennas if all you need is 5 watts and a 1/4 wave ground place to talk to England?? The purpose of Amateur Radio is to experiment and find ways to better radio communications not internet communications.

Just my opinion,
Jamie R. Dean - W4JRD
Jamie - W4JRD's Radio Information Page (http://www.jamierdean.com/radio/)

[K6VB]

Well said Jamie (W4JRD)!

This hobby is about communications thru the airwaves - not a commercial internet data routing service.

Amen.

Jim (K6VB)

[kf4vgx]

Well Sir ill try and answer your questions. lets be honest .We're not here to make up a persons mind. Its his or her decison to decide what there wanting to do. But I see Echolink as a tool to teach better ham communcations ! As you have heard pileups and hams hogging the frequency as on 80 meters .Most will upgrade for the DX part of HF.Antenna building ,
Awards, and so forth that is a good point to upgrade . Your Right The purpose of Amateur Radio is to experiment for new ways to better communications VIA VOIP or however one choose's In your post I can tell your worried about the future of Ham Radio ( WE all are ) as you have said you tried Echolink and Im sure you noticed how many repeaters and links were there. Thats when you felt worried . I think as time gos by youll find that it brings people to the hobby .Im sure some will love the challange that HF has to offer 73 and Merry Christmas

[WD8OQX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
For those of you who may have had the wrong idea of how I felt about echolink, please read my reply on the 1st page.


Thanks - WD8OQX #

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[w6dek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W4JRD @ Dec. 11 2002,07:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've used Echolink and Ilink and in my opinion even if you connect to the a repeater connected to the internet via radio it still not 100% radio and it takes away from the hobby. Why buy or build more then a cheap 2 meter station if you can connect to the local repeater and talk to Australia?? What is the use to upgrade? Can you give me one reason to better your station or to experiment with better antennas if all you need is 5 watts and a 1/4 wave ground place to talk to England?? The purpose of Amateur Radio is to experiment and find ways to better radio communications not internet communications.

Just my opinion,
Jamie R. Dean - W4JRD
Jamie - W4JRD's Radio Information Page (http://www.jamierdean.com/radio/)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now that is funny. If you only realized how silly and contradicting that sounds.

Confucius say.....
Better to sit and look like fool, than to open mouth and remove all doubt.

http://w6dek.com/repeater/info.html

[K0RGR]

I have run an ILink/EchoLink repeater gateway for quite a long time now, and I firmly believe that EchoLink is here to stay.

We have hundreds of thousands of visitors to the Mayo Clinic each year, and I've had several of them use EchoLink to keep in touch with their ham buddies back home via their HTs and our link.

No, its' not a replacement for HF. Never will be. Though we have had some hams here in town who have been truly unable to get on HF, and they do enjoy ragchewing with the DX that wanders into our gateway.

So far, I don't know of anyone who has delayed their upgrading or the construction of an HF station due to EchoLink, but I know several who have gotten back on because of it. I also know some Technicians that got their first 'on the air' experience using their computer to talk through distant repeaters - a great way to learn!

K1RFD has done a wonderful job with this code. I have the option of restricting it so that only RF links or repeaters can connect, and I sometimes run it that way, too. But my gateway is usually open and quite a few of the local hams monitor what was a nearly dead, unused repeater that cost our club lots of money for no return.

I've been a ham for 37+ years now. My dad was one for 30 years before me, and I remember his objections to the idea of linking repeaters via satellite wormholes back in the 70's - pretty much the same ones we see here. But I also remember him using the linked systems to keep in touch with me as I travelled around, and listening in on those linked systems to see who would drop in - usually while tuning 80 meter CW for his fellow ragchewers.

So, I know it isn't real radio. I really disagree with those who advertise it as a replacement for HF, because it is not. But it does have a place!

EchoLink and its kin are not the only Internet linked amateur "modes" these days. Have you checked out APRS lately? A melding of the two technologies promises to let travellers start a keyboard QSO via APRS, and then automatically kick off an EchoLink connection for voice, using the nearest EchoLink/IRLP node based on GPS coordinates. Wow, how many governmental/commercial services does that use?

Cool - but definitely NOT 10 meter SSB or 30 meter CW.

So what? Amateur Radio is what we amateurs define it to be, within the bounds laid down by FCC.

Maybe we've already seen the replacement for EchoLink - did you see the news about the trans-Atlantic tests of a new HF digital voice mode? Can you imagine the carnage if that mode becomes common on HF, and displaces SSB? It will fuel discussion groups into the middle of the next century...

[jeremy]

Echolink is great for a chat room and whoever said that you have to be a lisenced ham to operate with it. Anyone who looks at the "HTML" on the download page can see that it won't give you the program if you enter in a callsign with less that 3 characters and more than 6. If you enter in any 5 characters (for a callsign) and an email address it will give it to you.

I have included a wordpad document with a section of code for you all to see.

[k2ese]

Try encrypting your next Echo-Link QSO! Whistle into the Mic. and Using Morse code try laughing!. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w6dek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jeremy @ Dec. 11 2002,17:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Echolink is great for a chat room and whoever said that you have to be a lisenced ham to operate with it. Anyone who looks at the "HTML" on the download page can see that it won't give you the program if you enter in a callsign with less that 3 characters and more than 6. If you enter in any 5 characters (for a callsign) and an email address it will give it to you.