ONE-WAY PROPAGATION [Archive]

ae9zh

11-28-2002, 10:51 AM

Is it just me or has there been a serious increase in ONE WAY PROPAGATION on
VHF and UHF lately?

You know, the kind where you turn on your radio, and you can hear other hams talking, but when they finish and you try to call one (or any) of them, all you hear is static? #This kind of ignorance could be the death of amateur radio as many of us know it. #

I know a young man (14??) in town, who happens to be an Extra class licensee. He has been told by a group of #hams in the area that he should not be talking to another specific group of hams. #It was implied that if he did talk to them, he would lose the great privilege of talking to the people in their group.

I can only assume I am one of these hams that he is not supposed to talk to, since "the group" has stopped talking to me as well.

Now what kind of way is this to treat a new ham? #Here we have a very enthusiastic, able-minded young person who could do wonders for the amateur community, and he is being snuffed instead of encouraged. #So discouraged I am by this behavior, I have been tempted to delete these frequencies from the memory channels on my radios.

I should say I have noticed similar attitudes by other repeater groups elsewhere too (I travel much and always have radio equipment with.)

What ever happened to HAMS being brothers? #All hams liked all hams, and all hams helped other hams. #Just like any other large group of people with similar interests. #We all stuck together, no matter how our opinions may have differed or whatever other minor differences we had that made us each unique and individual.

Whether it's helping the new guy tune his antenna, or climbing a tower to replace an old timer's rotor ... or even just taking a minute to answer a CQ call from an unfamiliar callsign ... it's all the same. #Hams helping hams. #That's the way it SHOULD be.

Well, I just thought I'd put my 2 cents worth in on this childish behavior, and I hope ONE WAY PROPAGATION doesn't plague your QTH any time soon.

In the mean time, I'll continue to direct my efforts toward the HF bands and occasionally monitor the repeaters to rescue other victims of ONE-WAY PROPAGATION from drowning in silence!

AE9ZH/m 73 # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

AK6S

12-02-2002, 05:16 PM

I believe the Amateur's Code in the ARRL's FCC RULE BOOK says what we are all about (well most of us)

THE RADIO AMATEUR IS:
CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates is such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.
LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, throught which Amateur Radio in the United Stated is represented nationally and internationally.
PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.
FRIENDLY...slow and patient peration when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interestes of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.
BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.
PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and community.

The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M Segal, W9EEA in 1928.
I think it speaks for most of us. I think there will always be some who feel the need to ah well difficult!
AK6S
Sherry

W5MIT

12-02-2002, 05:52 PM

Last time I checked the ARRL antenna handbook, it stated that one way propagation does not exsist.

Sounds like some people have lost touch with the purpose of amateur radio. Reminds me of that question on the Extra exam: "What is the purpose of morse code testing?"... The answer is not to screen people out or protect some type of group.

k0zl

12-02-2002, 07:06 PM

Looks like it's time to delete some freqs from your radio! But seriously, there will always be arrogance and conceit on the ham bands. Best thing to do? Be a good example, welcome newcomers yourself. If you are a member of the repeater club, you have as much say as any other member as to how you would like the repeater to "sound" to others. I ran into the same problem, years ago. I joined the group, started going to the meetings and getting involved, and confronting those that were making new hams uncomfortable. It got ugly for a while, but after I rallied the "silent majority", the "repeater gods" got disgusted because no one would play their game anymore... and they left.

From 1 Tim ch 3:1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

73! Bill K0ZL

kc2kfw

12-02-2002, 08:30 PM

I share in your distaste and confusion, with regards to the aforementioned circumstances. It pains us all - whether consciously or sub-consciously - when this type of behaviour is apparent. Even those who endorse this type of behaviour may not realize that they are actually shooting themselves in the foot. If I was looking to take away bands or frequencies from Amateur Radio enthusiasts (like the FCC is unofficially doing) I would start by listening for this type of horrid behaviour and use it as part of the ammunition needed to obtain that goal.

Although I'm fairly new to the hobby, I have acquired great help and tutelage from seasoned HAMs. I have met a few on-air that I prefer not to converse with any time soon, but that is my choice. For me to impose a decision I make for myself onto others - or worse, newly licensed operators - is not only disgusting, but would discredit the Amateur Radio community as a whole.

For those of you caught in the middle, please remember: You are the only one in charge of your decisions. If you allow others to make decisions for you, it will only show that you have no will of your own. Make your own decisions! By all means, lead! Don't become a slave or enslave others! Obviously, you've made your own decision to become a licensed Amateur Radio operator. Kudos to you! Keep up the good work!

This post is in no way a method to enrage anyone in particular. This particular post is only to make public the thoughts I have regarding this particular topic. I thank everyone who takes the time to read it.

73, Chris KC2KFW

n4zou

12-02-2002, 09:13 PM

This type of operating started in the area I am in several years ago. It really hit me in the head one day when I arrived at a car wreck on the side of the road in a tree. I dug out the old 2 meter handi and brought up one of the local repeters but failed to get anyone to answer. I then tryed the other repeter and was quickly told it was a "private" repeter and they did not care how many people needed help and that I should get a cell phone. He was right! I did get a cell phone and I got rid of all my 2 meter equipment.

w6th

12-02-2002, 10:16 PM

Yes, yes, yes, ham radio has changed.

# # Cry baby cry, cry baby cry, stick your finger in your eye, cry baby cry.

# # Have little trust in the human race, put your trust in God and your faith is well founded.

# # May God bless America, Amen and Amen.

KC8FKS

12-02-2002, 11:16 PM

People like you are talking about and the one that made that last post, Are the ones that give Ham radio a bad name.

KE4MCL

12-02-2002, 11:24 PM

"I then tryed the other repeter and was quickly told it was a "private" repeater and they did not care how many people needed help and that I should get a cell phone. "

geez, you should have reported that sleezeball to the fcc. something about poor operating practice perhaps??

i have seen this too. the way i handle it is by saying something along the lines of "wow, i guess my 2 gigawatt radio and 75db antenna arent making the machine" and then clearing the freq! kinda like a "i know your ignoring me bozo" statement. when i hear the individual on the air again i ask them why they didnt come back to me when i called. one good smarta$$ deserves another eh?

i can understand sometimes a fella is busy or whatever but at least have the courtesy to come back and say "cant chat, gotta run" or something. this is a very social hobby. if you want to have a selective, private conversation then use a phone.

i go on all sorts of repeaters. we have plenty of "cliques" here in south fl. some folks here have been banned off of a few repeaters but there has been a reason for it... one guy will literally interrogate you with a barrage of questions and the second sits there and hammers newbies when they make a mistake. both are sure ways of running people out of the hobby so we figured its better to lose those two than to scare off a whole bunch. the interrogator has chilled out after a few people have told him he's irritating other hams and the self proclaimed radio cop has disapeared after being kicked off well over 10 machines in dade county.

i have yet to run into the whole "closed" repeater thing and god forbid i run into it during an emergency. i'll make it my new hobby to enlighten that particualr individuals entire circle of friends about how he kicked me off the machine while i was trying to get help. thats a big NO-NO. closed or not closed. its an emergency, shut your pie hole and get help now! period!

all i can say is grab the bull by the horns. some folks just need a good kick in the nads to realize they're being jerks.

73
robert cruz
ke4mcl

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

w6th

12-03-2002, 01:26 AM

KC8FKS, Hello young man, you are very very funny. #Welcome to the ranks of the "new" ham radio.
# # # # #
# # # # # # # # # # # # # #73, and congrats on your ticket,
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # W6th

W5HTW

12-03-2002, 02:08 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ae9zh @ Nov. 28 2002,03:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What ever happened to HAMS being brothers? #All hams liked all hams, and all hams helped other hams. #Just like any other large group of people with similar interests. #We all stuck together, no matter how our opinions may have differed or whatever other minor differences we had that made us each unique and individual.

Whether it's helping the new guy tune his antenna, or climbing a tower to replace an old timer's rotor ... or even just taking a minute to answer a CQ call from an unfamiliar callsign ... it's all the same. #Hams helping hams. #That's the way it SHOULD be.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
When ham radio was a relatively small group (125,000 to 250,000) it WAS a sort of fraternity. #Anywhere you went, if you saw a ham license plate, you could count on making a new friend by simply tapping out (yeah, in Morse) "HI" on your horn. #Those days are gone. #We outgrew them. # Now I see ham tags and I try a non-Morse greeting (and my vehicle has plainly-ham antennas on it) such as a wave, and I get blank stares or an upraised finger. #

I recently purchased a Yaesu VX5R HT. #After listening for a few days to the public safety radio around, and to the ham repeaters, I blocked out the repeaters and it is now a public safety scanner. #Of course the repeaters are still there, and can be used, but it is very boring to hear the same guy contact the same guy, every day, at the same time, and talk about the same things. #It is even more boring to hear truck drivers get on the state-wide link and talk their way across our 350 mile wide state, about unloading here, and loading there, and pulling this trailer or that trailer. #It is even more boring, and a lot more frustrating, to hear "wifey" call "hubby" on the 2-meter cell phone and say "bring home some bread, and I'm clear." #

So what I say to you is, go ahead. #Delete the frequencies. #Try something different. #Do ILink if you have to, (but don't forget to return to ham radio when you are done!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif #Try HF. #Do ATV. #Try APRS. #PSK31, 2 meter SSB or 6 meter data. #Or, (forgive me for this indiscretion) #try CW. # Join a 75 meter roundtable, or chase DX on 10 or 20. #Try RTTY. #Play with 903 MHZ - it could use the attention. #

Cliques are easy to avoid - go somewhere else. #If they don't want to talk to you, why in hell do you want to talk to them? #Forget them. #

Private repeater? #One of the reasons I dislike repeaters - they are basically just ego trips - someone's way to lay claim to a "private amateur frequency." #They do, with FCC approval, exactly what we bitch about on HF - the old farts laying claim to a frequency. #But on 2 meters we think it's great!! # Duck spit.

If that young 14 year old fella loses the privilege of talking to that group, he has gained, not lost. #He has climbed the ladder of amateur radio.

Having said all that, I have VHF and UHF capabilities, and in inclement weather I do indeed monitor a wide-area repeater, so, even for the "silent ones" I can report accidents and road conditions to the needy, or weather conditions to the NWS. # I do have HF through UHF capabilties in my vehicles as well, but again, I find the ham repeaters are generally locked out. #If I come across an accident, I can quickly try a repeater, but to be honest, the object of reporting an accident is to assist at the scene, not to get in a plug for ham radio. #Consequently I am far more likely to try the cell phone first, and then try ham radio only if the cell phone is out of range (as happens here in the desert.) # That is, in fact, what I recommend to any ham - use the cell phone for emergencies. #It is far quicker, and more reliable, than ham or CB radio.
Yes, that will make a lot of hams angry! But what is the object? To help at the scene? Or to be "da ham dude" helping at the scene? Use the best means necessary to get the job done, and that is generally the cell phone.

I think, (back to the original subject!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif there have always been cliques in ham radio. #Certainly when I came into it in the mid-fifties there were certain round tables on 75 meters that would not acknowledge me, though I was intimidated by these old experts and didn't really try - I preferred to listen. # #Cliques and exclusive groups are not new to this hobby, or to any other, for example motorcycle clubs, or flying clubs, or spelunking groups. #And they are not illegal. # And at some time or other a lot of us have been in a group that really didn't welcome outsiders very easily, whether it was a ham radio group, camping, mountain climbing, skiing, boating or sandlot baseball group. #We had our friends, and our limits.

It happens in ham radio. #Where I believe it is a serious problem in ham radio, though, is the spectre of "private frequencies." # That is truly exclusive. #I'm tempted sometime to set up an SSB roundtable on one of the repeater output frequencies! #Or maybe a CW net! #But that's vindictive and I wont' do it - I'll just dream about it! #

You are right - the way it SHOULD be. #It will never be that way again, so one must adapt to the way it IS going to be. #And we see the trend.

73
Ed

KD5SHW

12-03-2002, 02:21 AM

I think that they should make it illegal to operate a closed repeater. You can run on and on about privately owned equipment but they are public frequencies. To the guy who wasn't allowed to pass emergency traffic over the closed repeater he should contact the FCC and tell them the guys call sign, that's pretty rough.

Where I'm from I guess I'm lucky. If someone is talking I can wait until they're done and they will call back. When I was travelling I found 30 repeaters I could use from my station. They were usually busy but sure enough when I called all of them none of them answered me. I don't think that a group was trying to shun me I just don't think it is likely that nobody was listening. One-way propagation is creative idea but I think they are just mike shy.

If a group is ignoring you or asking you to ignore someone then just don't pay any attention to them. Contact whoever you want and have fun with the hobby. Encourage others to join you and if you really want to show them put up your own repeater and anyone use it.

w5nl

12-03-2002, 12:31 PM

Well look at it this way. Most likely the gentelmen in this "group" are confined to talking on that 2 meter CB. You have extra privledges, you have access to all amatuer bands. You can go to where this one-way propogation is not so common. Leave 2, 40, and 80 meters to those "i'm a better ham than you" people. Find me on 10, 15, 17, and 20 meters. 73 and enjoy your Extra Class ticket.

ad7vh

12-03-2002, 12:50 PM

The thing that I have found to be true, is the people that have their own "clicks," are mostly on the vhf+ bands, and only hold a technician license. These people started out there radio lives as CBers, and that kind of mentality, is very common-place on the C.B. Don't get me wrong, as I too started out with C.B., but I would never get into the "clicks", and just did it for fun, which later on I found amateur radio, and I have never looked back.

I have found some ops in the lower bands that have the same attitude, which some hold Extra class licenses, but as a rule, it is not found as much as it is on the vhf+ bands

KB2PCN

12-03-2002, 01:43 PM

"Yes, yes, yes, ham radio has changed.

Cry baby cry, cry baby cry, stick your finger in your eye, cry baby cry."

... And what is THAT supposed to mean? That 'one way propogation' is the 'new ham radio'?

If that's the new ham radio, let me tell you this: it isn't going to last very long at all from this point on.

I'd really like to see how anyone can rationally justify this sort of behavior.

Welcome to the new CB, I guess.

n1lef

12-03-2002, 03:06 PM

I have to admit I have been ignored as well on 2 meters, but like another gentelman did I put it down, and left the radios alone. I might go back someday, I find HF a better place to meet people who will answer your call. I am hoping to upgrade to extra soon and check out more freq's on HF right now of course I use 10 and have found some very nice people from all over the world. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Just my 2 cents.

73's

WD8MGO

12-03-2002, 11:42 PM

I have found most of the so called "Politically Correct Groups" are found on the two meter CB. They do everything together some what like a social club.
But I have refused to have any association with any of their members. HF seems much more friendly and besides such things as QRN and QRM scare off the previously mentioned crowd. To them HF is foreign territory(good:))
As for the Amateur's Code! As with anything else run by humans. Amateur Radio is no exception. I know of Amateurs I want nothing to do with(and I don't think of them of as brothers and sisters). When you achieve your Amateur Radio license doesn't mean you shut off your intelligence and plain common sense.

nn1d

12-03-2002, 11:43 PM

Im really Sorry to here this, but its no suprise, ive been buttin heads with many "click" hams and when get their guard down, ya put the smack on them, a recent posting on contesting.com about VHF/UHF, score postings in the ARRL's QST mag.

some "click" hams decided to start patting them selves on the back of the same sort on what is going on here.
In one message a so called ham said. "like we need another PVC project listed the the book"

The Grounds of ham radio were shakend from such a bad remark,

After that one guy stood up and, really smack them in the face.
and brought the entire list to a stand still for a week

So U are not alone, hams are weeding out the bad ones, chin up and don't pay any mind to the mind-less, if they want their "clicks" them let them have em, cause thats all they will have after they are marked as a bad or Click ham. Be friends with all, as it is supose to be.

ive been around for 12 years in ham radio,
ive had my windsheild smashed, my repeater kerchunked
and countless numbers of other stuff cause i was against the bad acts of a hand full of hams.
well today they are all gone, marked as bad hams.
stuck in their own little clicks, no one will talk to them

At one Time New England was marked the worst operators in the country, with the highest code wavers and repeater cops.

But Please remember what took your interest in ham radio, was it the people? or the hobby.

For me it was the Hobby, if someone don't want to talk to you consider it their loss, their missing out!

73 - Young Man!

K1MKF

12-03-2002, 11:45 PM

The idiot operator will always be out there. #From the local club president who told me to call him when I get my radio fixed while I was trying to understand the bad audio report he gave me. #To the guy I complimented on his home repairs to an old tube radio and mentioned that although I was an electronic tech I never repaired a sick radio and he laughed at me and called me an appliance operator.

The "closed repeater" confuses me. #If it is indeed closed it should not receive coordination and an open repeater should be entitled to the frequency pair.

I don't always want to ragchew with every new guy I hear on the repeater but I will usually hop in for a quick QSO. #It's a great way to meet other HAMS and promote the local club.

Mark

kc0idi

12-03-2002, 11:56 PM

Wow- It never fails, things always revert back to the same thing, someone should go back to CB, someone is only a Tech, 2m is CB, some one is an Extralight. #Why not use this as a wake up to your self and say, "Do I ever do that?" #If you do it's OK, you don't have to talk to anyone you don't want to. #But remember if you were traveling you would probably like to talk to someone as you head down the road. #Also ask your self, "Have I ever told someone to not talk to a certain group?" #If so that's OK too, you were probably trying to do what is best. #Remember that your impression of someone could be very different of someone else's.

Next time you read a post about something negative don't make it worse by calling people names and scolding people. #Use the post as a reminder to your self about how you behave and how other people will see you. #

The reason I am writing this reply is that I am tired of seeing people bash other people's views. #You can feel that someone is wrong but looking down on them because they have not been in the hobby as long as you or you have a higher class of license is not what this hobby is about. #I see enough of this attitude in high school. #That's right I'm just some punk 17 year old but some of the behavior here is that of 10 year olds. #When you see adults behaving like this it's almost scary.

So please just respect other peoples views. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

KG4NEL

12-04-2002, 12:05 AM

Hmm...the only "one-way propagation" I've come upon is calling CQ on 50.125, waiting for 6 to open. Hope the E's are good this winter... ;)

But I definitely agree with the point being made. In my case, instead of staying on 2 meters, I've gone up and down - I usually hang around on 6 meters SSB, and am starting to experiment with 2.4 GHz and satellites. I think W5HTW said it best: "Cliques are easy to avoid - go somewhere else." Sure, I still use repeaters, but they aren't the do-all and end-all of my ham radio hobby.

Just my two cents.

73,

Jim
KG4NEL

kg4wcg

12-04-2002, 12:28 AM

I am new to this game, got my ticket a few weeks ago. I have met a few nice people on the radio, but to be honest I am already to throw in the towel with this hobby. Its a real slap in the face when you here a QSO going and wait till it ends to give your call. 2 seconds later I put out my call and dead silence. I try one more time. nothing... Five min later someone else calls and one of the guys that was in the first QSO comes back to answer his buddy. This has happened to me on several repeaters. Why is this type of behavior necessary? No wonder there are so many licensees and you hear hardly half of them on the air.

KD7EFQ

12-04-2002, 01:44 AM

W6th is one SICK puppy!

kc5bmj

12-04-2002, 09:29 AM

w6th... god has no place in ham radio. (period)

keep religion out of the discussion.

FYI, driving through denver today.... several calls... KC5BMJ monitoring.... on a certain repeater i was told about... no answers... followed by KC5BMJ for some information about the repeater please....no answers....

then NXXXX calling KXXXX... with WXXXX and another NXXXX piled up ragchewing with a 4way....

the best thing you can do is to remember: when you are a repeater owner (i am) or trustee, those random calls on your equipment are a PRIVILEDGE... treat them as such... never resist the temptation not to meet someone new! to do so is against what ham radio is all about!

doug

KB9YKY

12-04-2002, 02:36 PM

Maybe one of the reasons that these repeater calls are ignored is because the other operators know, or sense, that the caller is the type of guy that would spell "God" with a small "g". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

kc5nyo

12-04-2002, 04:40 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc5bmj @ Dec. 04 2002,04:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">w6th... god has no place in ham radio. (period)

keep religion out of the discussion.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Excuse me?! Are there any other posters you'd like to silence? Are there any other ideas, viewpoints, thoughts or beliefs that you don't like? Tell us now so we'll be sure to post only those things that you want to hear and agree with.

Contrary to what you may have been taught, The First Amendment guarantees us the right to free speech. In a free and open discussion, which this thread is, the poster had every right to state his opinions, viewpoints, thoughts and beliefs. As long as it adhered to this site's guidelines, which it did. You can say that you don't agree with his beliefs, but you cannot tell him to quit posting them. Geez!

You may have confused his post with the government trying to establish a religion. Yeah, that must be it!

Save yourself some aggravation......... make a note of those posters whose ideas, beliefs, thoughts and viewpoints you don't like, then don't read their posts. It's simple, it works, and "everyone" still gets to participate.

73, Mike
kc5nyo

N7MK

12-04-2002, 07:23 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think that they should make it illegal to operate a closed repeater.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'> #

Right or wrong,one reason "closed" systems exist is because so many people these days think it is #their "right" to use repeaters, but they don't want to support them. #Too many people have the attitude that everyone (other people, the gov't, etc) owes them something, and that they have some unalienable right to use anything they want without paying their way.

If all systems were just open, as the support dropped off, many would go away. #The groups I know of, also support and maintain open repeaters in addition to their closed ones. #And sometimes systems are closed because of control operator issues.

And the Rules state you can limit access to repeater systems as you deem fit.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You can run on and on about privately owned equipment but they are public frequencies.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That is debatable.. but in any event, you can use the frequencies but not systems, provided you are not causing interference.

Mark

kh6kw

12-04-2002, 11:06 PM

This is my first posting in this type of environment. It seems that a lot of people are angry at ideas and not necessarily operating practices. I have enjoyed amateur radio for 23 years and during that time I have been insulted on 2 meters and HF. Never on CW though. I have also enjoyed a lot of great discussions throughout my ham experience. I guess we get bored sometimes and must respond. Aloha and 73, Jamie KH6KW

K1DDM

12-05-2002, 02:02 AM

I agree with the earlier post by KF4WCG. I got my ticket in the summer, invested in a 2m radio, and received dead silence to my calls. It took days to get my first response, and I quickly gave up. My 12 year old son, who received his ticket the same day, at least had some responses until they realized he wasn't a girl!

I expected 2m ham radio to be something like CB was in the mid-70's, but much more regimented. It is much more restrained, but a whole lot less friendly.

This is not a criticism of hams. Most of the individuals I have met have been great folks, eager to help me learn. I just can't understand why they are so great as individuals, yet so reluctant to answer calls from those they don't know.

An earlier post asked what attracted you to the ham radio, the hobby or the people? Well, the people ARE the hobby, aren't they? Otherwise, you might as well monitor with a scanner.

Dave

N0PU

12-05-2002, 02:47 AM

OK...
I have been staying out of this conversation, but I now have some thoughts to add...

1. I work at home... My 2mtr is monitoring 4 repeaters and 3 simplex freqs all the time.

2. I don't answer every call that comes across... Unless I know the person and have something to say... I ignore it... and I shall continue to ignore it unless I have something to add to a conversation...

3. I have NO responsibility to answer a call unless it is an emergency call... however I will answer unknown callers asking for info or a radio check...etc...

4. A lot of times when I finish a qso or roundtable I'll get up and head for the john... If you think I'm gonna hold my water just so I can give you an answer on the radio, think again... I have more pressing things to deal with at the moment...

I do not understand where some folks come off thinking that they HAVE to get an answer every time they pick up the mic... I call lots of times and get no answer... oh well... maybe no-one has anything to say to me today... no big deal...

Having said that, I will say that the emergency traffic that got turned down is outragious! And possibly illegal to boot!

Both sides need to ease up...

For you new people... We have not been sitting on our cans just waiting for you to get a ticket so we could have the privlege of talking with you... try to learn how to fit in... you JOINED our ranks remember...

You old timers... Ease up on these new folks... They are just learning... give 'em a break... try to teach and help those who need it...

73
Harry Kholer N0PU

W6UQZ

12-05-2002, 06:00 AM

I've been a ham since 1976. #I very rarely listen to 2 meter repeater QSO's--and even less engage in them. #11 years ago, I encountered the "private repeater/Repeater God" phonomenon in the San Jose, CA area. #Needless to say, it wasn't a "warm welcome" by any means. Perhaps the all-knowing Repeater Gods reaped some bitter pleasure in running off a newbie with a borrowed HT.

I've listened to two meter QSO's for a total of 2-3 hours since then, but have not made one. #Perhaps I'll take another listen over the next few months to see if Central Coast operators are as friendly as the general populace here. # #

HF operators should view 2 meters in terms of the concept of "CQ." #A CQ is the universal, general invitation to speak with a fellow Ham...any fellow ham, unless directed to a particular geo region ("CQ JT1 AND JT1 ONLY...PLEASE!!!!"----HI). #CQ is a general "hello, out there," and those unfamiliar Hams who anwer practice Ham Radio "aloha," may God bless them. # #

Try CQ'ing on a repeater, and see what happens. #Snickers, snide remarks, repeater cops with sirens blaring, etc. #How about the "repeater correct "WXXXX, monitoring......."? # #Dead silence.

73, and may your CQ's be answered, JH # # #

VE3LEG

12-05-2002, 07:13 AM

I actually made my first ever QSO on a 2 meter repeater calling CQ, it still works on ocassion.

KB9YKY

12-05-2002, 01:22 PM

Why would anyone call "cq" on a channelized FM frequency? They are going to be on channel, or not on channel. Why would anyone call "cq" on a local repeater? If you call on a repeater channel pair, you should only expect to reach that particular local repeater's channel. Of coarse such "cq calls" are going to be "snickered at and/or ignored". If you call in such a silly manner, you should just expect not to be taken very seriously.

AC4FD

12-05-2002, 04:01 PM

Actually, I also called CQ my first time on a 2 Meter Repeater. To someone who does not know the true meaning of CQ it may seem silly. In general "CQ" means "Attention All Stations". #It was originally used on Telegraph circuits for all stations on the telegraph "Wire" to take notice (can't get much more channelized than that!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif). I had used it because it was recommended to me by another ham.

But getting back to the topic of discussion... Do you really think that Just because you are on HF someone is going to answer you if they hear you??? #I would suggest that you might be more likely to notice such a thing on 2 meters because it it more populated than most bands. #As for calling 2 meters "CB"... I beg to differ. #I don't hear people calling "HELLO SKIPLAND... SKIPLAND..." on 2 meters. You think that people are rude on 2 meters??? Try some popular frequencies on 20 and 80 meters.

No matter where you go or what you are doing you are going to find all types of characters. The best that we can do is to try and make things better ourselves. I would suggest that individuals who think that 2 meters is another CB would also like to limit (or perhaps hand select) prospective new Hams. 2 meters is a great entry point for Amateur Radio. #It provides reliable communications for many Emergency activities such as Skywarn, SET...etc. It is also the least expensive to become a part of.

If you are being treated badly by a group of individuals maybe you should let everyone else know so that they won't have to be bothered by the same type of harassment. #This way the idiots can stay in their own isolated little world.

While it is not required, Emergency Communications is listed as one of the fundamental purposes of Amateur Radio. If someone does not wish to assist you.. they don't have to but it is in Violation of FCC regs to interfere with Emergency Communication. Just as people in a large city will walk by and pretend to ignore you when you are being robbed or beaten by a mugger or criminal.

Such is life... how can we make it better??

I guess that I never really did get back to the original topic. #Good luck to all New and Prospective Hams. Please do not let the Lesser's of our society prevent you from reaching your full Ham potential.

-73-

Randy

KB9YKY

12-05-2002, 04:43 PM

Randy, the "ham" that told you to call "CQ" on a repeater should have also told you to get a license/callsign. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Even if 2 meters was "the most populated band" (which really isn't true), it's very limited range will never make contact more likely than on HF. You also need to realize that VHF-FM is, for the most part, just a wireless intercom system.

f

W6UQZ

12-06-2002, 05:10 AM

Not so. Repeaters in major metro areas and well-placed rural repeaters have extreme ranges that potentially encompass many thousands of hams. That little intercom system is also putting out enough "RFI" to be heard by anyone within 50 miles with a scanner.

Perhaps a hundred or more Hams may be monitoring the downlink frequency (not channel) at any given time--any one of whom, upon hearing a spurious "CQ", might respond and say

".....you know, we don't often hear a CQ on this repeater, but you sound like a friendly enough person. Are you new to two meters? How long have you been a ham? By the way, your hitting the machine just fine with full quieting...." etc.

The alternative "Haw! Haw!"......[time out]...."Geez, some idiot's calling 'CQ!,'" and the like has no place in our hobby.

While I agree with N0PU that 2 meter "etiquette" should be learned by those who wish to operate there, a little "HF courtesy" would go a long way.

73, JH

W6UQZ

12-06-2002, 05:15 AM

Self-correction----"scratch the "HF courtesy" and replace with just "courtesy." There's plenty of rudeness to go around on the HF bands....JH

AD5BR

12-06-2002, 10:08 AM

If you ever visit San Antonio, TX PLEASE try our repeaters. For the most part the repeater users I've encountered are "Texas friendly"! We have nets that always ask for visitors to check in too.

I'm not excusing rude behavior or illegally ignoring an emergency call. However, one fact many of these replies have suggested is that many people aren't looking for someone new to chat with on a repeater. Unlike DX where often a ham is excited to have a QSO with anyone whose signal made it through, hearing someone on the repeater is usually not a big deal. It seems that most often people use the repeater to find someone they already know and chat with them. Perhaps you need to meet some of these local hams (in person) and get to know them.

Have you considered joining any ham clubs that OWN some of the repeaters you've tried to use? Or participating in local nets (after learning the proper procedure, especially with directed nets)? Or working special events with other hams? I've enjoyed comraderie on repeaters because I knew who was on the other end.

One final thought: it's pretty easy to hit a local repeater if you have the right frequency and tone, but many of us have at least once thought we had the tone set correctly but didn't. When I first got an HT I repeatedly called a friend I'd heard just finish a QSO but I heard no response at all. I knew he wouldn't deliberately ignore me. I resolved the problem when I got home and asked my wonderful elmer and spouse about it. My HT had the right tone stored with the frequency, but I needed to push one more button to get the "T" indicator to display that tone was activated.

73, Pat

AD5BR

12-07-2002, 09:30 AM

Correction: it's pretty easy to hit a local repeater if you have the right frequency, offset and tone.

Pat

KG4EFA

12-08-2002, 02:16 AM

Did you once consider they didn't hear you? They may have been on a repeater that needed a tone to be heard.
I can't believe anybody would not come back to you if they heard you. And that story that guy says about not getting help on a repeater in an emergency is even harder to believe. Rick KG4EFA. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

N0PU

12-08-2002, 07:20 AM

DOC:

90% of the time I'll come back to someone calling me...What I'm trying to say is, and this has happened several times, I'm not going to rush to answer a call if I've gotten 1/2 way to the can... All I was trying to explain is that the person calling doesn't KNOW the other end is available... I know guys that end a QSO and cut the power or change freqs... sometimes I'll end a QSO and turn the volume down because I have work to do and don't wanna be bothered... No apparent reason not to... and the calling party probably, if they are operating correctly, did NOT tailgate the QSO, they listened first to see that they had a clear freq... What is happening on the other end of the radio is NOT always obvious...

All I can ask for is a little patience on both sides... Don't feel insulted if someone doesn't just jump up and talk to ya... And if you hear someone on answer if you can... You might make a new friend...

Harry Kholer N0PU

KA2LIM

12-08-2002, 02:22 PM

W5HTW #hit the nail on the head... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

k4lem

12-08-2002, 04:26 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ae9zh @ Nov. 28 2002,03:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know a young man (14??) in town, who happens to be an Extra class licensee. He has been told by a group of #hams in the area that he should not be talking to another specific group of hams. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The problem is the kid chose the jerks to call and got rebuffed. I recall years ago my then 13 year old friend tried calling an older ham on two meter simplex. When the kid called the guy returned with this incredible display of intelligence, " why are you calling me? I know where you are and my beam is pointed at the repaeter. You're not between me and the mountain. You can't hear me!

It was said a number of years ago that since much of HR has lost its technical appeal, the qualifications for entry should test sociability, tolerance and those strange things the ARRL code of what a ham should be, are tested and graded. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

k4lem

12-08-2002, 04:35 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Dec. 02 2002,19http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">. #It is even more boring to hear truck drivers get on the state-wide link and talk their way across our 350 mile wide state, about unloading here, and loading there, and pulling this trailer or that trailer. #It is even more boring, and a lot more frustrating, to hear "wifey" call "hubby" on the 2-meter cell phone and say "bring home some bread, and I'm clear." #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't know if I should say this on a family poster's forum, but what you say is so true of the two meter repeaters in my area.

I was monitoring this evening and was stratled by a female voice, cooing to her in route hubby on way home from work.
Well, I guess from the conversation he had a warm home coming! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I felt like breaking in and saying, folks do you have any idea who is listening to you two? And its not after 11pm either so there may be children in the SWL audience?

k4lem

12-08-2002, 04:40 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Dec. 05 2002,06:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why would anyone call "cq" on a channelized FM frequency? Of coarse such "cq calls" are going to be "snickered at and/or ignored". If you call in such a silly manner, you should just expect not to be taken very seriously.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Wondering if you read how this thread got started? I think, given the absolute hubris on many repeaters, calling CQ would be a logical thing to do. What it says is, anybody anywhere out there, here I am and I will speak with you.

W6UQZ

12-08-2002, 04:42 PM

DocRF--I think you may have misconstrued or misunderstood what I said about "snide remarks and snickers." In my 2nd post, I stated that such reactions have no place in our hobby, but that the sad reality is that this response is elicted all too many times when a newbie has the temerity to call CQ on a repeater
...tantamount in some quarters to asking where the outhouse is on Holy Ground! Take a look at my last 2 posts...

Pat -- I agree wholeheartedly with you, senor. Lived in SATX for 16 yrs (ex-WN5UQZ and WB5UQZ) and found many friendly hams there. A friendly place overall...73, JH

W6UQZ

12-08-2002, 04:44 PM

DocRF (self correction..again!)---I think perhaps your remark was directed to a post which followed mine...if so, my mistake.

JH

kf4jqd

12-08-2002, 07:00 PM

I live in the same area as AE9ZH. There is a small group of Hams who think they are the Amateur "gods". You must do their bidding or they wont talk to you.

They really hate me because I stand my ground. I speak my peace. Also I don't go with what they concider "the norm".

I try to stay away from these people. If you are travelling through the area and use one of their repeaters, chances are you wont get a response. I promote using a simplex frequency that a group of us has started. www.geocities.com/simplexgroup475

As for the young Ham in the area. They are treating him very poorly. He is very smart and has alot of protental in our hobby. We shouldn't chase him away.

I WILL NOT BE RUN OFF THE 2 METER BAND BECAUSE OF THESE SPINELESS FOOLS! Nor will I be chased to the HF bands just because of them. Those of you who say,"Just go to another band". You make these people think they won the war. I stand up for myself and so should you.

73,
Andy aka KF4JQD

kf4jqd

12-10-2002, 03:59 AM

Well RFDoc:

You must live in the area that I live in. The way these "amateur gods" live isn't the Spirit of Amateur Radio. Actually it makes me sick. I know everytime I get on the air. I piss them off. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif That makes my DAY!

73,
Andy

kf4jqd

12-10-2002, 04:06 AM

Small town, small mentallity.....

kf4jqd

12-10-2002, 04:08 AM

I do have another hobby that I put before Amateur Radio, model railroading. At least there I CAN play god and I wont hurt anyone.

Andy

KG4RUL

12-10-2002, 01:21 PM

My experience has been more in the line of hearing someone come up on a repeater, waiting a couple of seconds to see if anyone else answers, then replying to the calling station. #Sometime a contact ensues. #Other times I hear a transmission similar to 'nothing heard' and they go away. #Still other times my return call is unanswered.

If you are the one who appears to wait a total of three seconds for a reply, SLOW DOWN! #Give it a minute, call again and wait another minute. #Some of us old guys take a little time to get it together. #We are happy to talk if we can get connected with you.

Dennis - KG4RUL #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

w5ljm

12-10-2002, 10:45 PM

Kinda reminds me of a "CLOSED REPEATER" System. #Anyone who gives a call should be acknowledged and spoken to as a human being, or even a hello/goodbye. But on closed repeaters and private "GROUPS", this courtesy WILL NOT HAPPEN! It's a sad thing for a great hobby! Keep trying, they'll grow up someday. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

W5HTW

12-11-2002, 02:27 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (frumrk @ Dec. 05 2002,09<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No matter where you go or what you are doing you are going to find all types of characters. The best that we can do is to try and make things better ourselves. I would suggest that individuals who think that 2 meters is another CB would also like to limit (or perhaps hand select) prospective new Hams. 2 meters is a great entry point for Amateur Radio. #It provides reliable communications for many Emergency activities such as Skywarn, SET...etc. It is also the least expensive to become a part of.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Two meters is absolutely NOT a "great entry point" for ham radio. #In fact, it is probably the worst possible means of starting off in the hobby. # It is, though, the most convenient entry point, and there is a major difference between that and the "great" concept. #

We had the perfect entry point. #It was called the Novice license. #It allowed someone a year (and later, two years) to experiment with ham radio, on HF, where the possibility of working DX through your own efforts, and not through a linked repeater, was very real. #It was a training ground, where new hams could learn real ham radio procedures and techniques. #It was comparable to the apprentice license in many professions, and that was exactly what it was meant to be. #And yes, it allowed limited voice operation on 2 meters. #It was real ham radio, facing the real conditions the "big boys" faced, except in a training ground. #

There is NO training ground in 2 meters. In fact, it is the opposite. #Without denigrating CB radio, the vast majority of 2-meter hams came from CB. #What they find is they are just on another CB. #They have a bit more freedom, by working repeaters, but they actually worked more DX on Citizen's Band. #They struggled to enter ham radio, found the 2-meter entry point, and suddenly found they were not accepted as "real hams," could not pursue the ham dream of long-haul talking on 20 meters SSB, and were doing exactly what they had been doing - just on a different frequency. #And with call signs, and less profanity, but still exactly the same thing - channelized radio, limited to short range contacts, often with the same old "good buddies" every time they pick up the microphone. #And as more and more of them entered ham radio via this route, they brought with them the "10-4" the "pedalling down the super slab," the "the Personal here is" etc. #In other words, they didn't get or accept training - they just brought their old style with them. #This in turn became the "new" training ground for the newest hams, as they heard the "what's your 20" calls and the "Honey I'll order the pizza and you pick it up on the way home" contacts, so they thought that was what it was all about. #And they adopted it. # The blind leading the blind - very astray.

The real problem is no-one gave a darn about teaching them what it was all about! #The VECs were focused on "more bodies, Mom, give me more bodies." #Give them a study guide, test 'em, get 'em out the door and ready for the next batch. #Give me numbers, lots of numbers, and the hell with the quality. #

No, they did not learn ham radio. #And they weren't given a chance to learn ham radio. #I don't fault them. #I don't blame them, and I am absolutely not down on the new ham. #"Tain't his fault." # They came into this hobby with the hopes of being a real ham, and now they keep having to wait for Mohammed to cut down the mountain another notch or two, so they can maybe become "real hams." #I think a good many of them got quickly disillusioned - "Hey, isn't this what I've been doing? #Where in hell is the ham radio?" # So they sold the gear, filed the license in some desk drawer, and realized they aren't hams and aren't going to be hams. #

Others found the internet. #They use the various links to "work" DX and they still aren't accepted as being "real hams" as they are using millions of dollars of communications technology (the various ISPs) to link them to a DX station by transmitting a half mile to the local repeater. #It's the cheapest thrill in town, and I'm sorry they can't be led into a better type of ham radio. #I'm not sure, though, that there IS a better type of ham radio anymore. #

Mohammed will make another major chop at the molehill next year, and by 2004 the mountain will disappear. #And all these 2- meter CB/family cell phone #types will shift operations to 20- meter SSB. #Well, a lot of them will. #And still with no training, no idea of what ham radio "was" - only what they want it to be now. # And it will be. #

And folks, if we complain about ham radio the way it is, guess what? #We are the ones who made it that way. #Including the cliques on 2 meters, the folks who don't want to talk to you, the ones who hog the frequency on HF (well, we give away #private frequencies on VHF, so why not?) and the profanity, interference, bells and whistles heard on the bands, the excessive power, the discourtesy - hey, we put it all there. #Yeah, all of us. #Some of us by bringing it to the bands, and some of us by ignoring it when it started.

Ok, that's a bit off topic. #But the problem is the real entry point for ham radio, that taught hams how to be hams, and gave them a feel for real operating, for the skills and courtesies we practiced for years, has been taken away from us in favor of the "gimme now" types. # That entry point is gone. #Did it teach CW? #Sure. #But it taught a heck of a lot more, like how to use operating procedures and skills, and to actually understand that radio and how it works inside. # But it's gone, in the KISS #interest of "keep it simple stupid." #

And we will pay for it for all of the future, perhaps - probably - in the VERY near future.

73
Ed

WB2TLQ

12-11-2002, 05:41 AM

Hello Everyone:

There are several issues buried in this thread that I feel a need to reply to.

WB2TLQ

12-11-2002, 06:09 AM

Hello Everyone:

There are several issues buried in this thread that I feel a need to reply to.

The first is the rights and responsibilities of repeater licensees. While I feel that a closed repeater system is dangerously close to having an individual "owning" a frequency, and therefore should be avoided, I do feel that a repeater licensee can and should do whatever is necessary to protect the license. If this means denying individuals access to the machine, then so be it. Personally, I feel that most repeater owners are doubley wonderful people, first they let me (and everyone else) use their expensive equipment and second they put their own license on the line! I would hope that any exclusionary actions taken by repeater owners are taken with caution and consideration. But sometimes such exclusions are necesary...as many have pointed out, anyone with a $50 scanner can listen on us and if a few individuals are giving ham radio a black eye and may endanger a repeater system for others than something must be done.

Another issue I have seen amongst the comments is, once again, the partitioning of amateur radio operators into categories based on little other than stereotypes and prejudice. Some seem to think that 2 meters is "CB land." Perhaps these folks have not been listening on the HF bands where everytime a DX station (or special event station or darn near anything else it seems) pops up on frequency -- the "mad tuners" fire up. It is abundantly clear that these pinheads are out to cause malicious interference, they didn't just accidently "forget" and tune up on frequency. Unfortunately bad behavior can raise it's ugly head on almost any ham band. I would be the first to say that such people should be found and punished. But I would also guess that if we could wave a magic wand and round up all the "bad apples" that their only commonality would be "badness." Some of these bad apples will be "CBers" (both with and without ham licenses, I would assume), some will Extra Lites (such as myself), but some will be "Full 20 WPM" Extras. Some will be young, some old. Every one of them are asinine and infantile.

And finally, in regards to cliques forming -- of course they will! This is what people do, form groups of like minded people! You find them on HF -- they call them nets! The only real difference between a local repeater and HF is the number of callsigns you might run across. If a person listens to HF for any length of time they will be exposed to 100s or maybe even 1000s of calls from around the world. I would guess that unless you are Will Rogers, out of those 1000s of calls there are a few that you would not answer again if you heard them calling "CQ." This gets magnified on the local repeater because there are only 10s or maybe a 100 callsigns that may regularly use a certain machine. It may be that out of 30 regular users, you might not really want to talk to, say, 5 of those people. There is nothing evil about that, just human nature. And as to out of town callsigns, I would agree that it varies widely from machine to machine as to whether or not you get an answer. Which leads me to one last thought...

WB2TLQ

12-11-2002, 06:09 AM

kf4jqd

12-11-2002, 06:12 AM

This IS a hobby. Is everyone forgetting that? If I had to deal with all this political BS, I would get out of Ham Radio.

Come on people,
Andy

WB2TLQ

12-11-2002, 06:20 AM

N0PU

12-11-2002, 01:13 PM

TLQ:

Your talk about closed repeaters and bad ops on 2 meters reminded me of a little adventure I was somewhat involved with about 8 or 10 years ago.

We had some lid that was interfering with a repeater in Tenn. He would put tones over the top of Skywarn nets and actually covered up some honest to goodness emergency traffic... OK, so maybe it wasn't life and death, but the lady did need help with her car, and at the time there was a wierdo travelling Hwy 40 doing strange things to people, so I think it almost qualifies.

Anyway, the repeater owner tried ignoring the interference in hopes that the jerk would give it up, but he was more resiliant than that. So we went looking for him. And every time we DFed him the signal would come from a mountain that we KNEW no one was on.

Long story, short version, the jerk was in KY and using a beam and amp to hit the repeater and apparently was bouncing his signal off the mountain. We finally tracked him down by stationing several teams in different parts of the county and then worked our way in on him.

The jerk was an Extra Class (pre extra lite) and was just content to get his jollies from messing with several repeaters. The repeater owner fired up a letter to the FCC and sent the jerk a copy and the interference stopped except for the occassional "I'm still here boys" type of message.

It still amazes me that someone would put in years of study and practice to waste it in such activities... I still wonder what motivates these folks... there are so many constructive things to do in Amateur Radio that I can't see one finding the time to do destructive things...

All bad operators are not ex-CBers and all ex-CBers are not bad operators.

Harry Kholer N0PU

kb9vbr

12-11-2002, 01:28 PM

This post degenerated to the open repeater/closed repeater issue, and I don't think that is the matter at hand. As a person that listens to all of the local repeaters 12 or more hours a day, I wouldn't get a lick of work done if I answered every call of a person who said they are monitering or listening. If a person calls me specifically, I will usually come back to them, but if someone just throws their call out, I usually won't unless I have the time to talk.

Calling CQ on a repeater is not a guarantee that someone will want to talk to you. Lots of people are listening, but they are listening for someone to call them. If you want someone to talk to, give a call for that person specifically. If you want to announce to the world that you are listening, then say 'W9XXX listening.'

As for out of towners passing through the area; if I hear someone requesting directions or assistance, I will always come back to them if I have the opportunity to. If I hear a traveling looking to chat when they are passing through, I may not come back, it just depends on what I'm doing. But rest assured if you travel through my neck of the woods that someone is listening and will offer assistance if the need arises.

Finally, as for ham radio being a hobby. Yes, it is a hobby. But when discourse is brought to an open forum, it becomes political. If you want ham radio to stay just a hobby, then its best avoid any and all confrontation, as you will only become more frustrated. Conversly, if you want to make things better, then get involved with the local clubs and community. Whining and complaining gets you nowhere, but positive action does wonders.

ae9zh

12-12-2002, 01:13 AM

I had hoped it wouldn't come to this ... it's a sad day for ham radio =(

I'd just like to say in KF4JQD's defense that Andy is an excellent op, and a great friend of amateur radio as well a personal friend of mine.

KF4JQD is the kind of guy that would give you the shirt off his back, or the antenna off his tower. =) When I first got my start in ham radio, Andy was there ... talking to me on the radio, helping me with antennas and technical issues, and generally giving good advice.

Andy is always quick to respond to a call for help, no matter how serious ... he monitors even the systems he doesn't frequent anymore just in case something comes up.

Andy is a mastermind of antennas, and has been very helpful to many newbies with his knowledge.

I just hate to see the guy take a bad rap from anybody, cause he's one of the best there is ... and I just can't beleive all those terrible, mean things that were said about him ...

This world could use a few more KF4JQD's ... it would be such a nicer place to live. =) =) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Billy AE9ZH/m NYC

KB9ZOE

12-12-2002, 01:20 AM

I know that this is slightly off the original topic.

Wow! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Seems to be that some of these posts have become very hostile!!

When did this become a place to single out a specific Ham?

I am one that listens to the repeaters in the area that is under discusion in the first post. Yes, I feel that there is a lot problems in general. I was not readily welcomed to this new hobby, it doesn't seem that anyone new is. Being new, I first listened to the local repeaters before I even thought about picking up that mic. I listened to people and heard some of them being ignored. That did not make me any more confident! I was however greatly encouraged by a few hams...namely AE9ZH and KF4JQD to just get on the air.

So why would I want to get involved with a group that tends to alienate people that have some how grown out of favor with a few.

I understand that people with like intrests tend to gravitate towards others with the same intrests...but that dosn't mean that you have to alienate those that have another view. Which is what seems to have happened.

Secondly, you need to get your information correct before you post on a public forum identifing a specific person. Not go and shoot of your mouth, and be half cocked. Talk about not telling the whole story. I have read previous posts and do not find them specifing ANY person or group, by call sign.

Slanderous posts against a single person/ group, show what limited thinkers some can be! All you accomplish is making yourself look bad.

As to the coment, "Face to face, eyeball to eyeball is ALWAYS the best way to solve problems." I think that you need to practice what you preach.

73,
KB9ZOE
YL of KF4JQD (might make me a bit prejudiced http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )

kh6kw

12-12-2002, 06:50 PM

Well Boys and Girls, this reminds me of a pissing contest. I believe it is time to stop this non-productive train of thought or behavior. I think the answer is "civility" for all concerned. There are positive and negative traits that can be attributed to all of us. Pick what you want from each of us. If we operate like we communicate these thoughts we are in big dodo. Take a deep breath and lets relax. I wish you all Meli Kalikimaka (Merry Christmas) and I hope you all have many wonderful contacts over the New Year. Aloha, Jamie.

ae9zh

12-13-2002, 12:10 AM

http://www.billyjack.net/jpegs/icon.jpg
I'd just like to take a moment to thank all that replied to this post, however heated the conversation may have gotten.

I have read your opinions and I am happy to have gotten so many different viewpoints on the issues.

I still maintain that the original issues are real and I defend my original position on the issues.

I do wish that assistant EC guy wouldn't talk so mean though ... those words hurt my ears and if I talked like that my grandma would wash my mouth with a bar of soap. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Billy AE9ZH/m

n9kpn

12-13-2002, 12:30 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n4zou @ Dec. 02 2002,15:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><SNIP> It really hit me in the head one day when I arrived at a car wreck on the side of the road in a tree. I dug out the old 2 meter handi and brought up one of the local repeters but failed to get anyone to answer. I then tryed the other repeter and was quickly told it was a "private" repeter and they did not care how many people needed help and that I should get a cell phone. <SNIP> [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is the type of thing that shows why closed repeaters should be eliminated. #I came across a car accident where two cars came off an expressway and down an embankment to a frontage road, an almost two story drop. #While I didn't see the accident itself I did see the dust in the air; the accident just happened. #(This was at a time where cell phones were still quite new.) #I contacted someone on a repeater about thirty miles from the accident to request police assistance. #They informed me that the repeater was "too far away" and that I should try a local repeater. #It was not that they could not hear me (I regularly had QSOs on that repeater from where I was at). #The person did not want to be bothered bringing up the emergency auto patch. #

As far as I'm concerned, this was a case of interference with emergency communications. #The FCC frowns upon this type of interference. #See these enforcement letters:
------
November 5, 2002

Mr. Anton W. Johnson
13048 Rose Avenue
Los Angeles, CA 90066

RE: Amateur License N6OAY: Interference with Emergency Communications
Case # EB 2002-447

Dear Mr. Johnson:

Enclosed are detailed complaints that on October 2, 2002 at approximately 9:45 a.m. you interfered with attempts to relay emergency traffic on the 147.435 repeater in the Los Angeles area. We view these allegations as extremely serious. Section 97.1 of the Commission's rules provides that one of the 5 basic precepts of the Amateur Radio Service is "Recognition and enhancement of the value of the Amateur Radio Service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communication".

Section 308(b) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, gives the Commission the authority to obtain information from applicants and licensees about the operation of their station. Accordingly, you are requested to respond to the complaints with in 20 days of the date of this letter. Sign your reply before a notary and return it to the above address. A tape recording of the incident will be furnished if needed for your reply.

This information will be used to determine what action to take in this matter. That action may include monetary forfeiture, modification of your license to prohibit voice operation, or revocation of your station license and suspension of your operator privileges. You are also advised that Congress has made punishable a willfully false or misleading reply to a letter of this type. We also caution you against any retaliation towards the complainants.

We note that the repeater licensee has requested you to refrain from using the repeater until this matter is resolved. We expect that request to be honored, and if it is not, we will immediately institute license revocations proceedings against your station license and suspension proceedings against your operator license. Call me at 717-338-2502 if you have any questions about this inquiry.

Enclosures: 12 pages

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November 5, 2002

Mr. Ledge Musselman
P. O. Box 66-076
Los Angeles, CA 90066

RE: Amateur License KC6NCN: Interference with Emergency Communications
Case # EB 2002-447
Dear Mr. Musselman:

Enclosed are detailed complaints that on October 2, 2002 at approximately 9:45 a.m. you interfered with attempts to relay emergency traffic on the 147.435 repeater in the Los Angeles area. We view these allegations as extremely serious. Section 97.1 of the Commission's rules provides that one of the 5 basic precepts of the Amateur Radio Service is "Recognition and enhancement of the value of the Amateur Radio Service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communication.

Section 308(b) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, gives the Commission the authority to obtain information from applicants and licensees about the operation of their station. Accordingly, you are requested to respond to the complaints with in 20 days of the date of this letter. Sign your reply before a notary and return it to the above address. A tape recording of the incident will be furnished if needed for your reply.

This information will be used to determine what action to take in this matter. That action may include monetary forfeiture, modification of your license to prohibit voice operation, or revocation of your station license and suspension of your operator privileges. You are also advised that Congress has made punishable a willfully false or misleading reply to a letter of this type. We also caution you against any retaliation towards the complainants.

We note that the repeater licensee has requested you to refrain from using the repeater until this matter is resolved. We expect that request to be honored, and if it is not, we will immediately institute license revocations proceedings against your station license and suspension proceedings against your operator license. Call me at 717-338-2502 if you have any questions about this inquiry.

Enclosures: 12 pages

--------------

November 5, 2002

Mr. Scott A. Press
P. O. Box 4853
West Hills, CA 91308

RE: Amateur License N6SAP Repeater Operation: Interference with Emergency
Communications Case # EB 2002-447
Dear Mr. Press:

Enclosed are detailed complaints that on October 2, 2002 at approximately 9:45 a.m., users of the 147.435 repeater, which identifies with your call sign and for which you are the trustee, interfered with attempts to relay emergency traffic in the Los Angeles area. We view these allegations as extremely serious. Section 97.1 of the Commission's rules provides that one of the 5 basic precepts of the Amateur Radio Service is "Recognition and enhancement of the value of the Amateur Radio Service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communication".

Section 308(b) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, gives the Commission the authority to obtain information from applicants and licensees about the operation of their station. Accordingly, you are requested to respond within 20 days of the date of this letter stating specifically what action you are taking in this matter. A tape recording of the incident will be furnished if needed for your reply.

We also remind you that the decision to operate a repeater is a voluntary one. They are not required by the rules and they are a convenience, not a necessity. Repeaters are stations under Section 97.205 of the rules and as such must have a licensee and control operator to insure the immediate proper operation of the station. If a license or control operator of a repeater cannot prevent violations of Commission rules on the repeater, it must be shut down.

In your reply please summarize any conversations you have had with, and include any written correspondence you may have sent to, the licensees against whom the allegations have been made: Anton W. Johnson, N6OAY and Ledge Musselman, KC6NCN.

Enclosures: 12 pages

The souce of the above letters is from:

http://www.arrl.org/news/enforcement_logs/2002/1116.html

This is just three examples of letters of enforcement. #As far as I'm concerned suggesting that a repeater is closed or that a different repeater closer to the accident should be used IS interference to emergency communications. #To quote the FCC #the violation was "interfered with attempts to relay emergency traffic...." #By not allowing someone to use the repeater or by jamming it etc. this is interference. #

HenryWirz

12-13-2002, 06:47 PM

Andy it wasn't enough for you to spend great amounts of time on the Local Repeater trashing Wisconsin and the people who make our home here, but you had to take your grudge to a National Forum, I'm not surprized and it's typical behavior for you.

Billy I disagree with your comments. The young ham in question was not "black balled" for QSO's with you and Andy. I give him a lot of credit for what he's done in Ham radio in his short time as a ham. And it was really nice of you and Andy to take him under your wing.

I've not heard him on the repeater in months. I had just assumed that he had fallen Pray to the Dark Side of the Force (Andy). The kind of things that I've heard Andy spew on the Radio are not in the best interests of Amatuer Radio and it saddens me that the young ham in question has him as an example.

Many of us tired of listening to Andy spew anti-wisconsin garbage have stopped listening to the repeater that he frequents, perhaps that's why you've not heard from us lately. We look foward to the day that he moves back south. I am certain that not only will he be happier there but so will I.

KB9YPS

9v1sm

12-14-2002, 07:31 AM

Surprises me...may be I have been a bit fortunate. Reading these posts got me thinking about my trips and my experiences. I have always had a great time with ham radio..except for may be one or two occassions on HF (but then I dont generalise the whole population based on a few lids who are bound to exist). During my trips to the US, I have called on several repeaters in the cities I visited (Phoenix, Maryland, Albuquerque, Tampa Bay to name a few) and I have always had hams returning back and going out of the way being nice to a travelling ham. I tried the same in Europe and Asia and again it has been great. I have always looked forward to my trips to India where I would try hitting every repeater I could access while driving long distances and I've had 'pile ups'! ;-) Hams have been outwardly courteous going to the extent of inviting me to their QTH.

I have been in this hobby for close to half my life (15 years). So this account of mine is based on the 15 years I have been active. I reciprocate the same in places I am based in (currently Singapore). The 2m radio is on all the time and no calls go unanswered - no matter how tied I am. Looking back, the closest friends I have had are all fellow amateurs.

To me this hobby is really great with lovely folks still around. It is upto you and me to make this hobby great, expecting little or nothing in return.

73
Sasi
9V1SM / VU3SNM

k4lem

12-14-2002, 01:25 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0PU @ Dec. 11 2002,06:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It still amazes me that someone would put in years of study and practice to waste it in such activities... I still wonder what motivates these folks... there are so many constructive things to do in Amateur Radio that I can't see one finding the time to do destructive things...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Maybe the guy was like 50-60 or more and too old to go to the Mall and cut tires?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

k4lem

12-14-2002, 01:32 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ae9zh @ Dec. 11 2002,18:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd just like to say in KF4JQD's defense that Andy is an excellent op, and a great friend of amateur radio as well a personal friend of mine.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As a neutral investigator here who has no information except what has been posted:

If the statement was true that this guy jammed repaters and has a dossier at the FCC, how can he be a nice guy?

If the slander ( if that is what it is ) be true, then the only question is if this forum is an appropriate place for this statement?

If the slander is false, the poster needs either submit evidence of proof or apoligize at once.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

k4lem

12-14-2002, 01:38 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2TLQ @ Dec. 10 2002,23:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hello Everyone:

# # Some seem to think that 2 meters is "CB land." #Perhaps these folks have not been listening on the HF bands where everytime a DX station (or special event station or darn near anything else it seems) pops up on frequency -- the "mad tuners" fire up. #It is abundantly clear that these pinheads are out to cause malicious interference, they didn't just accidently "forget" and tune up on frequency. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Maybe the ARRL should send out free complimentary dummy loads to all new call signs? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
But, that said, its not just the special events stations being jammed. In general if your HF radio has a DSP filter, just notch out the carrier.

Would be nice if we had a perfect World wouldn't it? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WB2TLQ

12-14-2002, 10:06 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe the ARRL should send out free complimentary dummy loads to all new call signs? #
But, that said, its not just the special events stations being jammed. In general if your HF radio has a DSP filter, just notch out the carrier.

Would be nice if we had a perfect World wouldn't it? #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

If I thought dummy loads would help I would be all for it! #Unfortunately, as we don't live in a perfect world, it is abundantly clear that malicious interference is the intent. #And yes it is not only special event stations...all it takes is a callsign that does not start with a K or W and some moron will be whistling into his mic. #my point being the same as yours, this ain't a perfect world and for better or worse, ham radio reflects that. #Unfortunately many threads here on QRZ (including this one...) emphasize that imperfection.
# # Hmmmm...a DSP filter?? #I got to get me one of them. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Bill, WB2TLQ
Wausau, WI

KG4LFZ

12-15-2002, 04:18 AM

I have never been told that I can or can't do something. #I always have my scanner going to all the repeaters around my area, because I have helped many poeple on VHF and HF find directions, where to eat sleep, or just to keep them awake till they find a place to sleep. #I have never ever told anyone that they can't talk on this frequency or repeater or anything. #I think that what everyone else is saying about the guy on the "closed" repeater not helping in a emergancy, should be reported and have his license revoked. #Like I am always told, "there is always a bad apple in ever crowd."

73's Eddie KG4LFZ

ae9zh

12-17-2002, 07:00 AM

http://www.billyjack.net/icon.jpg</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've had just about enough of KF4JQD shooting his mouth off on here. #I'm the Assistant EC for the county that he and AE9ZH live in.

It seems that KF4JQD (and to a lesser extent AE9ZH) has missed the boat in telling the whole story (once again) when half cocked. #Here's the parts he's chosen to not tell you about.

First off, the young HAM in question has NOT been banned from any repeaters. #Neither has KF4JQD or any of his cronies for that fact. #None of the organizations in this area practice that method of relations. #This youngster has made a nice reputation for himself by shooting his mouth off on the local repeaters and threatening local hams with turning them into the FCC for what he viewed as violations when in reality they were not. #His other favorite thing to bash on the repeaters deals with "no code" technicians. #Funny thing is that he picked that expression and attitude from KF4JQD. #From what I'm told, he behaves almost the same way on HF. #I'm sure if you've heard the dude you'd know who I'm talking about. #By the way, who was the first group there to help him get on the air anyway?? #If memory serves, it's the group that has been targeted in the discussion.

As for KF4JQD, that's another can of worms. #If I'm not mistaken, this is the same person who (before moving to Tennessee for a while) swore up and down that his sole reason for existing was to "piss off as many people as he could." #Well, it worked-all the way to the FCC when he was busted for jamming frequencies of local businesses a few years ago. #Talk about a nice role model there...

Since we're on the topic of KF4JQD and his buddies, seems to me that ol' pal N9OVR was on the air having a QSO with KF4JQD talking about people that will be shot if they came to Tennessee. #This is also the same duo that was caught rebroadcasting CB over 2 meters along with stimulating discussion about cooking hamsters in the microwave.

I know which repeater club KF4JQD's shooting his mouth off about. #It disturbs me that he's chosen the internet as a place to grind his axe because he can't get a rise out of any local hams on the air when he starts shooting his mouth off. #But oh well, to each is own I guess.

Funny thing is, I'd take money out of the bank and bet that some night when Ma Nature is taking him out behind the woodshed and beating him like a red headed step child he'll have his trusty HT tuned into the ARES net that is run by the county ARES chapter and the club he loves to hate. #Funnier yet is that he'll check into the net and try to buddy up while giving incorrect weather information.

I know it sounds like I'm singling KF4JQD out on this one, but his behavior is as immature as it is when he's on the local repeaters. #This is even worse when people involved get into the story half cocked.

If one wants change, I urge you to come to club meetings, be diplomatic about it and try to effect change. #Don't waste my time along with the time of the other hams in this county (and the 8 surrounding counties) by being a prick and whining about things you don't have the balls to change. #Until that happens, PLEASE do all of us a favor - shut the hell up and crawl back to your simplex where you shoot your mouth off all day long.

I like to think that the county I'm the Assistant EC in has some of the BEST trained storm spotters and hams in general that one will find. #It's altogether too bad that one person needs to be so negative all the time while trying to undermine the GREAT hams that are on the air in this area.

By the way-face to face, eyeball to eyeball is ALWAYS the best way to solve problems. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I'd just like to take a moment to point out the email below that has been circulating locally, and point out that while this club SPECIFICALLY claims not to endorse any of the comments made on this message board, the above colorful comment was, in fact, made by it's VP.

(sorry ... somebody had to blow the whistle) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Billy AE9ZH

It has come to the attention to the Wisconsin Valley Radio
Association that a discussion thread on QRZ.COM has developed
that contains negative comments about the amateur radio clubs in
the Wausau area.

This thread can be found at:
http://www.qrz.com/cgi-
bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=24371;st=0

OR

At the QRZ.COM home page, scroll down and click on the link titled
"One Way Propagation"

Messages have been left by both members and non members of
the Wisconsin Valley Radio Association commenting on this issue.

THE WISCONSIN VALLEY DOES NOT ENDORSE ANY OF THE
COMMENTS LEFT BY INDIVIDUALS ON THIS SITE. NOR DO
ANY OF THE COMMENTS BY INDIVIDUALS ON THIS SITE
CONSTRUE AN EDORSEMENT BY THE WISCONSIN VALLEY
RADIO ASSOCIATION, ITS BOARD OF DIRECTORS OR
MEMBERSHIP.

With that said, the Board of Directors has decided that it may be in
the best interest of the club to post an official statement on the
club's position of the issue. The board will take comments from the
membership and use them to draft an official statement. If you wish
to comment on this matter, please email them to the club President,
Mark Rasmussen, N9MEA at lnmrazz1@gte.net.

Time is of the essence, so please email the comments by the end of
the day on Friday, December 13, 2002.

Thank you for your understanding on this matter

Michael Martens
KB9VBR

kf4jqd

12-17-2002, 05:03 PM

Since KB9STB posted that crap about me. I have deleted all of the WVRA's repeaters out of ALL my radios. Now there needs to be a boycott of them! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

52.89
146.640
224.640
444.100
and their APRS crap!

I personally think he should step down as assistant EC because that is NOT an authoritive postion! Myron, Have you ever helped in hurrican relief? I have!!!!

Andy KF4JQD

Attack of the clones!

n9ovr

12-17-2002, 10:54 PM

From the time I got my ticket. I have seen alot of losers come and go from the WRVA (Wisconsin Vally Retard Association they are so clique... Clones... If you dont do as they tell you to do they wont talk to or have anything to do with you...Clones.... there are many ppl that I know of that the WVRA told me if I talk to them they wont ever talk to me.... they also think they are GODS because most of them hold extra class ticket's as we call them no code Extras as they dont know noting about HF and use HF for there local rag chewing. (20 meters) the WVRA members should know better that hf is only for long distant contacts. So now as you see ae9zh and that 14 year young man are still members of that clique. but when their renewals for the club comes up I dont think they will pay the $20 to rejoin. Because these two ppl talk to kf4jqd and n9ovr the WVRA wont have nothing to do with them this is where the ONE WAY PROPAGATION COMES in. I think all the members of the WVRA ARE SCUM!.......... more to come SOON http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ae9zh

12-18-2002, 06:11 AM

I see the individual who said the mean, mean things about Andrew has withdrawn their post ...

This would be the appropriate action for false and slanderous remarks.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

HenryWirz

12-18-2002, 03:24 PM

Yep thats riiiiiight the WVRA is all scum, clones, waaaa, waaaaa, waaaa.

Give me a break!

As you can see this kind of mentality that we've had to put up with, and that is why things have deteriorated as much as they have. It is a shame that a local issue has had to be brought into an international forum.

Speaking for myself, I started ignoring two hams in the area (Not the 14 year old in question), because often the conversations deteriorated in to discussions of Software Piracy, Hamster Mutilation, bashing Cheese Heads, etc, etc, etc. The easiest way to deal with people such as these is to ignore them and hope they go away.

Now obviously I do have a duty to my fellow hams to help out in a time of crisis and if one of them were some kind trouble and needed help I'd be happy to help them out. You ignore Lunacy not Car Wrecks.

One of the things that bothers me is that our repeater, placed on top of that big old hill, is only there by the good graces of the quasi-private organization that manages the site. Since we are a guest we should maintain reasonable community standards in the use of that repeater.

DISCLAMER: These are my opinions and in no way should they taken as being official WVRA club policy, of which I'm just a lowly No-Code tech member. Anyone who says otherwise is itching for a fight.

KB9YPS

kf4jqd

12-18-2002, 03:50 PM

To KB9YPS:

Go back to your damn beer, Green Bay "Fudge" Packers, and Badgers.

Andy

WB2TLQ

12-18-2002, 08:15 PM

It heartened me to hear AE9ZH check into the WVRA 75 meter discussion net last night. #I only wish that I could have checked in sooner to join in the discussion. #Glad we could be there for you, Billy! #Come back often. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Bill, WB2TLQ

Speaking on my own behalf since, I don't know, 1966 or so.... # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ae9zh

12-19-2002, 06:09 AM

http://www.billyjack.net/icon.jpg</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It heartened me to hear AE9ZH check into the WVRA 75 meter discussion net last night. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Aw, what the heck ... it's Christmas ... and I'm just glad I'm not getting COAL this year. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Billy AE9ZH/m IA

K0RGR

12-20-2002, 10:48 PM

W6UQZ mentioned experiencing a closed repeater in San Jose, CA. I lived there for many years myself, and there were a few VERY private systems where non-members were unwelcome. But, there were repeaters on every possible repeater frequency pair for 2, 222, and 440 Mhz, with other repeaters on other bands, too. So, while being told to leave the 'private' frequency was unsettling, it did not interfere with my ability to find a QSO anytime I wanted one.

On my last trip to San Jose, I found it harder to find a QSO. The high level repeaters have been compomised by overcrowding and the use of PL, which makes it difficult for travelling hams to announce that they are on frequency. It would be nice if all repeaters would ID with their PL frequency or retransmit the PL tone, so that users could figure out how to achieve access.

Open, closed, private, whatever, everybody has an obligation to handle emergency traffic when needed. I had a problem with one of the members-only repeaters in San Jose once because it was the only repeater I could access at the time, and the members would not leave a break between their transmissions long enough to break in. I ended up driving to a spot where I could access an open machine in order to report the accident.
But, I think this was more ignorance and poor procedure than an attempt to keep out non-members. That repeater was actually pretty courteous most of the time to newcomers.

k3jdp

12-21-2002, 01:44 AM

Yeh, I see it all the time where I live. Repeaters around where I live are pretty much nothing but electronic cliques & gossip machines. We have quite a few hams in my area that look down on anyone who became a ham after restructuring. It's a shame! We even have hams ripping other hams off. You hear talk about CB being in the sewer. Well, it ain't alone!

W6UQZ

12-21-2002, 07:29 AM

Agree wholeheartedly with K0RGR's response and observations. I found a few---very few---"non-exclusive" hams to talk to on South Bay repeaters (North Bay ops were more friendly, I think) in the early 90s. Not enough to add 2 meters to the "like it!" list ---a condition which persists to the present.

Just picked up an IC 746, and hoisted my old Ringo Ranger out of storage. Central Coast folks are friendly enough, and San Jose has had its collective ego trimmed of late, so I think I might lurk on a few repeaters and see what the attitude reading is post-Millenium...73, JH

N0LOH

12-21-2002, 04:30 PM

After reading the first 20 posts to this topic, I'm wondering why us hams are all here on the internet discussing things that could be discussed on the air? #Now I know why 2-meters is dead in this area and others. Everybody wants to be protected behind the keyboard. I sometimes wish the only posts allowed on this site were of the technical "I need you help" type, and announcement about special events & hamfests, but alas, that would be called censorship by some.
# I'm sure others will point out the irony to my post, but I don't care, because I'm utilizing my first amendment rights. What a country!
# Now, everybody, turn off the computer and turn on those 2-meter rigs!

ae9zh

12-21-2002, 06:51 PM

http://www.billyjack.net/icon.jpgI'd just like to take a moment to say that I'm proud to be a 5WPM Extra, and while I greatly respect my elders in this hobby, whatever license class, I don't feel the new guys should be looked down on because of new licensing requirements.

I earned my privileges by doing what was required of me, and I don't feel it makes me better or worse than anyone.

I still have goals like improving my code, etc. that I hope to acheive over time. I don't consider the Extra license as a indication that I know everything and couldn't possibly learn any more. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

73 and Merry Christmas and a Happy Chanukah to all. Look me up on the 146.82 repeater (by far the best 2 meter machine in the area) if you're passing through, or 146.52 if you see me mobile (call letters displayed on screwdriver antenna.) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Billy AE9ZH

ai4ep

12-21-2002, 11:07 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif oh yes, and the 146.960 repeater between Russellville and Decatur Alabama is a fine machine...sure it wont hear a 300 mw hand held with weak batteries from 200 miles away from the site, but it IS a decent repeater, with rather FRIENDLY folks, so if you can muster up the mobile, give it a try when going through northern Alabama, say your call sign CLEARLY, and ask if any one is listening, and 9 times out of 10, you will get an GREAT answer.... dont just sit there and mumble a half way undistinguishable mumble of letters while holding the ht horizontal with weak batteries and expect a reply. Speak clearly and distinctly and you will get an answer on almost any repeater ( if it is open to the general public )... 3 days till christmas...kd4amg

AD5BR

12-22-2002, 09:21 AM

Perhaps the repeater directories on the web and in print should show a friendliness rating that indicates whether visitors/newbies/non-members of the club owning an "open" repeater are welcome or not. I once thought since closed meant "private" that open meant "visitors welcome", but apparently I was wrong. Open must mean something else in other parts of the country. Or maybe some "open" repeaters need to be redesignated as "closed". The FCC does allow for closed repeaters in 97.205(e).

I hope some of you who have been made to feel unwelcome can get a group together to put up your own repeaters. Roll out the welcome mat and show the others how you feel hams should treat hams on the air. (Maybe someone could start a new thread suggesting how to interact with the repeater coordinator, etc. to get a new repeater up.) And be sure to come visit some of the friendly places we've mentioned here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73, Pat

W1CAR

12-23-2002, 11:23 AM

This thread displays one of the reasons why I don't post here very often. After reading several if not twenty replies, everything becomes redundant and repetitive. Then, we have hams attacking other hams because of differing opinions. Well, whatever. It's your world; we're just living in it. Personally I prefer to spend my time more constructively.

Truthfully, I have heard new hams; and I say this loosely because they sound like new hams; calling cq or saying their call sign in an effort to make a contact on a repeater. If I'm not busy; or not involved in something else, I will answer them. Typically though, it takes way more patience and effort to communicate with a new ham than it does to communicate with someone you've known for awhile that knows your idiosyncracies and won't be offended if you disappear off the air for a second to make a left hand turn or change gears. New hams lack the experience that gives them good operating practice; and unless I'm at home tuning the dial and looking for a QSO, or driving down a long highway on cruise control, I generally won't answer them. Emergencies at any rate, I will answer regardless of any situation; and should not be ignored or placed aside whatsoever.

When I was a new ham; I flew to 2 meters and had so many questions about the hobby that I knew it annoyed some of the older hams who were more prone to ragchewing conversations with their HF buddies. I could tell that talking to me wasn't their favorite thing to do from their short; somewhat patronizing answers. Well, I moved on; began talking to the guys that were more encouraging, and since then have had no problems. And, it didn't take using different frequencies either. I too, am a member of a clique; but we do not treat others not involved with us as outsiders. We welcome them to the hobby, and do our best to try to get them involved as we are. We try to interest them in traffic handling, SkyWarn, and upgrading their license (which is something I need to do eventually.)

Every repeater is going to have its "home" group. Every repeater is going to expect different operating practice. This whole "don't call cq on repeaters" is just nit-picky crap. I know everyone that uses my home repeater. If I go to another repeater, I expect to be greeted by a stranger, so I treat the conversation differently as I would one from my home machine. I don't expect him to be nice or welcoming; as he dosen't know me! How can we just expect anyone to be our best friend on the air if they don't know who we are from Adam? We say, "in ham radio, all hams should be friendly to all hams." In today's world, cops aren't nice to all cops, postal employees aren't nice to all postal employees, real estate agents aren't nice to all real estate agents, so on and so forth. And, I'm quite sure some of them even have a code of conduct despite this.

Get over it. People are always complaining after their feelings get hurt. Easy way to fix this? Don't let your feelings get hurt. Be yourself, and don't take any crap. There's always going to be people out there who are willing to treat you badly because it makes them feel more important. Don't give them the satisfaction.

k6ntl

12-23-2002, 05:34 PM

Greetings,

Gosh, this has been quite the melting pot of ideas.

I don't always agree with Harry, N0PU, but this time I do.

Calling CQ on 2 meters is basically just listening to confirm a clear frequency, and transmitting your call sign, is it not? Say "testing" after your call, and maybe people will just let you (in effect) legally kerchunk.

I have heard a lot about the cliques (aka clicks) that people seem to despise so greatly. I agree that they exist, but we have to ask ourselves "why is it so important to belong within one?".

I know there are many clubs out there, and though many may be stale little cliques of their own, they generally don't ban membership to anyone. It's all about showing up, listening up, and speaking up when you have something to add. Single out one or two hams at any given meeting and introduce yourself. If they talk, ask them about what they like to do. Most people love to talk about theirselves. Ask if they might want to try out a QSO someday, or mind you calling them at times. If they are cold or unresponsive, you have to not see that person as a "challenge" to be conquered and resent or hound them, just move on. Next.

This takes time. These days you can get your ticket and an HT in about a week if you are so inclined. The money you spend does not include a personality. If you are a complainer, people will avoid you. That's a pretty well known fact. So work on your communication skills if need be. Maybe listen more. Try to be a positive rather than a negative. You cannot force friendships, they take time and effort. I would like to say, in this hobby, if you want salad, you better plant some seeds. And water them. Friendships may take awhile to grow, but the best ones usually are worth it.

Personally, I have to tell you that being well known or liked isn't a guarantee you can have that little QSO whenever you are in the mood. I am pretty active around here (spare you details, check the trailer) but I'd say I bat around .334 most days. Like Harry said (not an actual quote,), there is more to life than radio for many of us, and it is understandable to turn off equipment post QSO. I, for one, leave breaks so others can reach