Cellphones & Gas pumps [Archive]

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AC4BB

07-20-2008, 07:46 AM

KD8BVS

07-20-2008, 07:50 AM

K3ACE

07-20-2008, 11:01 AM

I believe there are warning labels at gas pumps about not using them. Probably more important is that you ground yourself (especially after a long ride) before you pump gas to discharge any a static electricity that you may have. The guys at "Mythbusters" tried to duplicate the cell phone senario on TV and I believe they failed. Even with a vehicle filled with gas fumes.

ka5s

07-20-2008, 11:41 AM

I had followed the stories for year about using the cell at a gas pump and wondered if, itwas really true about human fireballs at pumps and decided to see .?
Here's what snopes had to say about it.
http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

No danger. That does not mean one may disregard teh notices; gas stations are private property and the owners or their agents may impose any otherwise lawful restriction they wish.

I am not a lawyer and this is no legal advice. Common sense, yeah.

Cortland
KA5S

WS2L

07-20-2008, 01:11 PM

Didn't the MythBusters test this one out and it was busted ?

ai4ep

07-20-2008, 01:33 PM

...after all the warnings and you STILL use a cell phone at a gas pump ?

Cant that " ALL _ IMPORTANT " Call wait just a few more minutes ?

I guess it cant, go ahead and blow yourself up ....dummy .

K3ACE

07-20-2008, 01:46 PM

Didn't the MythBusters test this one out and it was busted ?

yes..see my reply several posts up

ai4ep

07-20-2008, 04:22 PM

wg7x

07-20-2008, 04:41 PM

This one was put to rest long ago.

It turned out that most of the fuel pump fires were caused by static electricity. There was also fairly conclusive proof that the static was more commonly a female problem because of the fabrics that they wear and how they usually get into and out of their cars.

When the Myth-Busters tried this, they had to resort to explosives to actually get any big reaction. Gas pumps and fuel tanks are designed to reduce the chance of fire or explosion.

Unfortunately for the engineers, stupidity still triumphs over design occasionally.

So use your cell phone or not, it makes no difference at the pump.

It may make a difference behind the wheel though! Remember to hang up and drive!

73 Gary

ai4ep

07-20-2008, 04:54 PM

...." reduce the chance " "occassionally "

try telling THAT to the grieving family

kb2vxa

07-20-2008, 05:04 PM

Well, I wouldn't use my mobile spark station at the pumps, that's for sure!

ai4ep

07-20-2008, 05:28 PM

You aint going to find me using a cell phone at a gas station...I wouldnt want to be that 1% out of a billion chance of something happening............................plus.....my phone calls aint THAT important. I can pull over some where on down the road and make or recieve a call .

Maybe to YOU your life aint that important, but I bet you are to a potentially grieving family member....YOU are important to them .

Me ? I aint gonna chance it..I got 14,000 more posts to make with these fingers and I need all 10 of them to do it with.

YOU can go ahead and attempt suicide , I do not mind at all .

Should we tell the gas station attendant that you are potantially suicidal ??

w6kru

07-20-2008, 07:39 PM

The only gas pump fire that I have seen was caused by a man filling up a plastic gas can in the back of a pickup. Static electricity was the assumed culprit.

KB2YYR

07-20-2008, 08:18 PM

Should we tell the gas station attendant that you are potantially suicidal ??
You have a far greater chance of being killed driving to the gas station than you do from a fire while filling up. Better to stay home and wrap yourself in bubble wrap and packing foam.

Or you can stop being a pussy.

N9MOQ

07-20-2008, 08:26 PM

There is more danger of holding an active cellphone next to your head than next to a gas pump.

Interesting how people will tend to beleive myths and urban legends without much convincing, but tell them the true dangers, and they write them off instantly as false without a second thought.

ai4ep

07-20-2008, 08:52 PM

They problably think that --- if you hold a cell phone with just the dial tone making sound through the speaker up to the DISPLAY of the gas pump, that you can get FREE gasoline ...some folks are dumb enough to believe that

or

if you stand on just one leg while pumping gasoline, that you can get FREE gasoline

or

you can get FREE gas by washing your windshield while you are pumping gasoline., but you have to be sure to be in sight of the attendant while you do this .

or

flisking nose boogers in to your gasoline tank will increase your mileage.

N7RJD

07-20-2008, 09:06 PM

There have been many studies on this subject. The common finding is that a properly operating cell phone poses no danger at the gas pump. Keep in mind recent findings of problems with lithium batteries and the fact that most newer cell phones now use these batteries.

What is more of a danger at the gas pump is something much simpler that a lot of people pass off as false because it is so simple. In cool dry weather such as what we get a lot of up here people have a habit of sitting in their car while pumping gas. As they get out they can build a static charge which when first grounded to the nozzle in the tank can be a source of ignition for fumes around the filler neck.

Another is people who insist on filling gas cans in the back of a pickup. The can (especially the new plastic variety) can build a static charge from sliding on the bed of the truck. Always bring the can to the ground to fill.

The two examples I give above have both been proven to me though study as well as video of the second actually happening.

Even the new Ultra Low sulphur Diesel has it's dangers. With the lower sulphur content the fuel has a lower conductivity which can lead to flash potential when loading from storage to tanker truck and from tanker to customer storage. This problem is solved with the use of an additive that increases conductivity. No doubt there are terminals saving the cost of this additive in the hopes nothing ever happens.

NC5P

07-20-2008, 10:35 PM

The hoses are supposed to be grounded to reduce static buildup. However I've heard this isn't tested uniformly. I didn't know about the ULS diesel. Diesel used to be safer than gas in that regard. Back when I lived up north they used to mix jet fuel or kerosene into the fuel in the winter so it wouldn't gel. It was a lot more volatile.

I don't worry about cell phones at all, I don't own one. I get about two calls a week at work and nearly none at home so it isn't worth lugging around. My wife has one, though.

N4AUD

07-20-2008, 10:57 PM

T

Another is people who insist on filling gas cans in the back of a pickup. The can (especially the new plastic variety) can build a static charge from sliding on the bed of the truck. Always bring the can to the ground to fill.

Never heard that one before, and I've done it many times. Have a link where I can read about it?

ai4ep

07-20-2008, 11:18 PM

good question !!

There are METAL gas cans and the newer PLASTIC gas cans.

There are METAL beds on trucks and there are PLASTIC bed - liners.

Any one done any research on the mixing of all this with gasoline / static ??

KB1KIX

07-21-2008, 06:12 AM

lots of potential variables in this scenerio ---

brand and octane of the fuel
outside temperature at time of explosion
winds speed and direction ( if any )
phone used and output of the phone transmitters
height of person using phone ( closeness to the fumes )
vehicle door was open / closed at time of expolosion
vehicle windows up / down at time of explosion
vehicle motor running
vehicle type of exhaust system ( loud / quiet ) if motor is running

and a few more can be added if need be

It's a myth that just hasn't been backed up as long as it's been going around the net.

brand and octane of the fuel - they tried multiple fuel soruces
outside temperature at time of explosion - they tried day and night
winds speed and direction ( if any ) - various times of the day, various wind speeds and such - but they did try to even create a closed vapor area - and still couldn't get the thing to light up.
phone used and output of the phone transmitters - outputs are limited. You're more likely to have the battery blow up on a charging incident than igniting fuel.
height of person using phone ( closeness to the fumes ) - see above. They even put the phones in a closed space with fumes, far more than ever likely at a pump - still, myth busted.
vehicle door was open / closed at time of expolosion - has nothing to do with the cellphone use, does it?
vehicle windows up / down at time of explosion - see doors open.
vehicle motor running - again, yet another that has jack to do with the phone being the cause.
vehicle type of exhaust system ( loud / quiet ) if motor is running - ya got us mythbusters fans here....... the guys over there probably never put sound into the equation :rolleyes:

It ain't happened (but I'm sure some lawyer argued it as a case somewhere.

Jonathan

n2ize

07-21-2008, 06:53 AM

Didn't the MythBusters test this one out and it was busted ?

It probably isn't a problem. At the same time Mythbusters is not an authoritative source. I wouldn't bank on anything Mythbusters does or says as fact. Mythbusters is entertainment not science.

KB2YYR

07-21-2008, 06:20 PM

I wouldn't bank on anything Mythbusters does or says as fact. Mythbusters is entertainment not science.
Agreed. And I say that as someone who briefly worked for them as a researcher.

n6hle

07-21-2008, 07:00 PM

The only gas pump fire that I have seen was caused by a man filling up a plastic gas can in the back of a pickup. Static electricity was the assumed culprit.

Hear of one that really takes the cake. Three women stop at a station to fill up a gas can. First off, does it really take three women? I don't think it should. But anyway, they first off over fill the can. So now they've got gas all over the outside of this plastic gas can. They get into the car, the woman in the back seat was holding it in her lap. I guess the trunk was full. The woman in the front passenger seat leaned back to have the woman in the back seat light "give her a light"!

This is one of those stories you just find impossible to believe. At least, until you find out one of the women involved was your cousin! On the upside, she did quit smoking after this incident.

N7RJD

07-21-2008, 11:28 PM

Never heard that one before, and I've done it many times. Have a link where I can read about it?

I'll see if I can find something. What I saw was a video that was incorporated into a full presentation produced for a couple of major oil companies a few years ago.

N7RJD

07-21-2008, 11:31 PM

On the upside, she did quit smoking after this incident.

Question is was quitting smoking enough to save her life?

N7RJD

07-21-2008, 11:37 PM

I'll see if I can find something. What I saw was a video that was incorporated into a full presentation produced for a couple of major oil companies a few years ago.

Here's one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgAaj3DkA-w

Here's another with the same video and a short write up about this incident.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=924_1204640250 ("http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=924_1204640250)

N7RJD

07-21-2008, 11:39 PM

Here's one to support the cold/dry weather and static theory.

http://sema.dps.mo.gov/06StaticCarFires.pdf

kf6rdn

07-22-2008, 12:03 AM

...

flisking nose boogers in to your gasoline tank will increase your mileage.
LOL!!

Well one thing alot dont seem to be considering.. Just because you are not talking, doesnt mean your cell phone doesnt periodically transmit a "keepalive".

I've never worried about it. A couple watts (if that) isnt going to induce arcing anywhere.

But I just dont do it anyway.. I'm with 'ep... none of my calls are that important... If it is... Well I cant GIT there til I git some gas anyway, so hold yer horses..

KD6NIG

07-22-2008, 12:07 AM

I'd worry more about the chick I saw today-put the pump in, set it on automatic, started pumping gas.

Walked away, yapping on her cellphone, INTO THE MINI MART while the fuel is pumping. Pump "clicks off" and pops out of the filler hole and falls to the ground. Luckily its off, but she must have barely had it in there.

Imagine if it wouldn't have clicked off, or decided to start going again when it hit the ground. Or a nice spark when the metal struck the concrete.

I was glad to be 4 pumps away when it happened and at the end of the line, where I could have got in the car quick and got clear, maybe, before the fireball erupted.

She came out and had this "hmm, what happened?" look on her face while she picked it up and hung it back on the dispenser. She was STILL ON THE PHONE.

Ye gods. Can't call someone back in 2 minutes.

Course I've seen worse-the ones who put the gas cap in the pump to hold it open when the clip is missing......it goes on and on.

(Oh, and before you ask...$4.21, 87, Stockton @ Arch Rd.)

n2ize

07-22-2008, 02:25 AM

Agreed. And I say that as someone who briefly worked for them as a researcher.

Did you get to meet Kari and Scotti. Man oh man Kari is HOT!!!

KB2YYR

07-22-2008, 02:33 AM

Did you get to meet Kari and Scotti. Man oh man Kari is HOT!!!
Nah, it was a work-from-home dealie. Just as well; I'd have never gotten any work done otherwise.