Morse Code & NO Code International [Archive]

K9STH

11-26-2002, 08:36 PM

Fred used to live on the east side of Richardson, just south of the Richardson Square Mall. This is about 5 miles from where I live. He was new in town (at that time was a salesman for a novelty company, selling, if I remember correctly, things like artifical flowers). He was able to "walk up" the tower (it was one of the old Spaulding formed sheet metal self supporters that he had house bracketed) but couldn't climb the tower.

Having been around amateur radio for over 43 years and having been things like the first FM Editor of CQ Magazine, I have gotten around! I still run into people who ask me about magazine articles that I wrote over 30 years ago, some of which I had forgotten that I even wrote!

Now, I have met the Presidents of the United States since Eisenhower (I was 8 years old when I met Eisenhower in 1952) except for Ford and Kennedy. I was one of the personal escorts of then President George H. W. Bush at the Texas State Republican Convention in Dallas in 1992, and met President Regan at a rally in Mesquite, Texas (suburb of Dallas), in 1988. I met Carter when he was running for Governor of Georgia, and the others at various times and situations over the years.

By the way, I was nominated by Senator Phil Gramm for appointment to the FCC after the first Bush was sworn in as President. I did make it through all but the last set of people (there were about 5 different levels), all of the last selection were Washington lawyer types. The nomination was not for amateur radio but for my experience in the commercial telecommunications area.

Anyway, there are a "few" people that I do know. But, there are MANY more that I don't know! Also, there seem to be a lot of people who "know" me, but I wouldn't recognize from Adam.

Glen, K9STH

WB2GOF

11-26-2002, 08:47 PM

I am so proud to say that I was banned from QRZ.com by Glen Zook!!!

K9STH

11-26-2002, 09:07 PM

GOF:

Since you are still posting, you obviously haven't been banned! Also, I don't do the banning, there are only a couple of people who actually do that.

So, you cannot have the privilege of being banned by me, although I guess that it could be arranged with the "powers that be" if you so desire! Also, there are only 3 people on the banned list that I recommended banning, all for VERY good reasons! In fact, there have been a couple on the banned list that I really think shouldn't have been banned. But, that is not my position in life!

Anyway, I was just answering the question posed to me about knowing everyone! A lot of people, yes! Most of them, no!

Glen, K9STH

WB2GOF

11-26-2002, 09:34 PM

Well it would be a privilege, if it were true. #Anyway, it's a real pleasure to have made your acquaintance. #Are you planning on running for public office?

Anyway, back on topic, why is it that every time the subject of eliminating code requirements for Amateur Radio licensing is even mentioned, certain elements get all bent out of shape? I mean, I myself am not advocating this; but to even listen to the arguments, or in this case, visit the website listed, brings derogatory comments about those involved in it. It doesn't seem very open-minded to me.

[Flame-proof suit activated!]

W8FAX

11-26-2002, 10:35 PM

Well Glen........the LAST time I saw W5YI, there was NO WAY he was gonna get up ANY tower..........

K9STH

11-27-2002, 12:39 AM

GOF:

I "dabble" in local politics, but now pretty much in the background. I am an election judge and have been a precinct chairman. However, it is nice being a "big fish in a little pond" since I live 3/8 of a mile inside of Collin County rather than being a "little fish in a big pond" that I would be if I lived in Dallas County! It does impress some people to be able to walk into just about any local politican's office and be recognized. But, all that comes from living in the county for 30 years. Knowing all those people and 89 cents plus tax will get me a small "coke" at MacDonald's!

The local State Representative lives 5 blocks from me and his youngest daughter and my middle daughter were best friends from kindergarten through high school. I know people like Roger Staubach (Dallas Cowboys quarterback) since he used to live about 4 blocks (just across the line into Dallas County) from me, several TV news people who also either live or have lived in the neighborhood, etc. However, the biggest house in the entire area belongs to my veternarian. Every time I see him I say that my dog's paid for his house and he always replies that it took a couple of additional dogs and a cat, or two!

Now, for the topic of code / no code: I would be delighted if this subject didn't come up at least twice a month since there hasn't been anything new posted on the subject for eons! I agree that this particular subject brings out the worst in people with neither side giving an inch. But, until the discussion drops down into personal attacks, profanity, etc. (which, so far, every one of these discussions has!), it is the policy of the owner of QRZ.com to allow them to continue. Basically, no one has to read these except for the moderators. Thus, if someone doesn't like the subject, then they most certainly don't have to read the threads!

You will notice that the person who started this particular thread has been banned. However, it was not for starting this thread, but for his conduct on several threads. The simple fact is that so long as the topic / thread is not obscene, profane, or gets into personal attacks, then the topics are pretty much "wide open" in nature.

Glen, K9STH

kc4zgp

11-27-2002, 03:46 PM

So long as a Morse distress H.F. signal might be sent, we users of the H.F. bands best know what the heck that noise is. Lack thereof might cause death.

Kraus

w3sy

11-27-2002, 05:58 PM

I guess the day will come when someone tries to use CW on 20 meters, and someone comes on frequency and says, "Dawgone... mercy! Who's th' DUCK PLUCKA throwin' th' carriers onna channel? Quit throwin' th' dawgone carriers on this here channel, ya cotton pickin' duck plucka! Modulate! Modulate on this channel! Don't be throwing no cotton pickin' carriers, by golly!"

kd7eze

11-28-2002, 03:34 PM

W3SY
You sound like a CB "officionado" or something. What gives?....LOL

'73 de KD7EZE/5 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ai4ep

11-28-2002, 06:51 PM

...personally I Do NOT think eliminating the MORSE CODE requirement will bring the type of individual that needs to be in AMATEUR radio...it will attract a FEW "great " folks, but after a few years... it will just attract the "rest"...as you already know. In this area ( check my call sign for appropiate town, state and nationality ) cb radio is NOT as great as it used to be...cellular phones have greatly cut back on cb radio usage in this area and it will continue to go in that direction. Amateur radio phone patch calls on local repeaters have been cut dramitically within the past 2 years due to the ease and convenicence of cell phones. What used to occur on 5 local cb channels now is reduced to 1 - 2 channels ( and some of these folks have to CALL up their friends on the cell phone ) to get them to get on the c b to ratchet jaw or test new/different equipment...and on some nights there may only be 2 converestions between 6 pm and midnight. Sure channel 19 is still a mess, but that is another story. But back to the basic point: leave things just as they are till around 2010 and then (maybe ) take out the morse code requirement THEN. That is all ( oh by the way, I personally have not passed the 5 w p m code requirement, but I do plan to with in the next 6 months. ) Thanks for the opportunity to say this in this forum. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

9V1VV

11-28-2002, 08:36 PM

I live in an antenna-restrictive environment (Singapore) where stealth and cunning produce results. There are a few Amateurs here ( Sasi 9V1SM being one) who use PSK-31 with great success, in conditions of extreme QRM and QRN, and get through where CW would have failed, using a wire disguised as a clothes-line hung from their apartment windows. I take my hat off to them. They are pioneers. For me, I prefer to struggle on 40m with a Buddipole perched on the balcony or long wire strung to a tree at night when the neighbours can't see, with an ancient British RAF Type D straight key, working through awful QRM to the States, Africa and Europe, on CW.
Sorry no-coders, but both Sasi / 9V1SM and I would tell the no-coders that SSB just won't hack it under these circumstances.
No Pain,
No Gain.

w3sy

11-29-2002, 12:22 AM

OM KD7EZE --

That's a fair question! Like many hams, *I* too once dabbled in CB.... But we're talking 1968 and 1969. Then again in the mid-70's, when I was too CHEAP to buy a 2 meter rig, I put a Chicken Band rig in my car so I'd be able to communicate on the road.

So I've heard the lingo. I've got it down pretty good.

I found CB to be utterly useless for emergency or priority traffic. Other than the occasional "smokey report," it was just a bunch of numbskulls blathering on with endless nonsense.

Got 2 meters in the car now. It's not a major improvement, but it's a bit more civil!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Out.

kg4qbl

12-05-2002, 03:38 AM

Hi,

I have had my no-code tech ticket for over a year now.
As soon as I got into the hobby I found a great deal
of snobbery. Folks with Advanced tickets saying they were better than the new "extra lite" ticket. The arrogance really turned me off. To make a long story
short I sold my HT and other gear. Whether code stays
or goes is of no interest to me. I think the real question
or problem hams face is to save their hobby. If Hams
continue with all of the infighting and don't make real
attempts to attract younger folks than the hobby will
die. Thats my 2 cents worth. Now all you old wise hams sit and think on that. I'm going fishing.

73's I always hated that
Bill

K9STH

12-05-2002, 04:06 AM

For QBL:

Unfortunately, there is a very small minority of amateurs who do not accept anyone new (just like in "real life"). I have been around long enough that those types do not bother me at all.

Now, was your "main" rig a portable, or "HT" as you called it (actually HT is a registered trademark of Motorola as is "Handi-talkie")? If so, you fell into the "shack on the hip" trap that befalls a lot of newcomers. You just can't do much with a portable except work through the local repeater(s). I know that you can occasionally work someone on simplex, but, the vast majority of your contacts are going to be made through the repeater. If you happen to run into persons who put down newcomers, then you really don't have anywhere else to go.

Then, there is the problem of a newcomer coming onto the scene who doesn't have a "clue" as to how to operate. Many bring the bad habits of the Class "D" Citizen's Radio Service with them (Class "D" is what most people call "CB", but there are actually several different radio services that come within the Citizen's Radio Service). If that new operator doesn't have someone to show him/her the "ropes", and if the newcomer can't get the "hang" of repeater operation, then something is going to have to give, and, unfortunately, that is usually the newcomer.

I always recommend finding a local amateur radio club (even if you have to drive a few miles) and then trying to make some new friends and find an "Elmer". Often the best "Elmer" is going to be the gruffiest, stern-looking person around. However, he/she knows "how the cow ate the cabbage" and usually turns out to be the most helpful person for miles around. You just have to get beyond your initial reaction.

Of course it depends on the area, but in many areas local amateur radio clubs are definitely working with the local school system to get the younger set interested in amateur radio. In the northern part of the Dallas / Fort Worth Metroplex, several community colleges ("junior colleges") are running "camps" during the summer (and sometimes during vacation times from school like "spring break") aimed at the middle school / junior high school and the high school students. I was asked a while back to put on my lightning and r.f. grounding seminar for those camps run in Collin County. My presentation was video taped so that it could be made available for distribution to other colleges and universities around the country.

Anyway, sometimes you just have to "bite the bullet" and find someone to help you ("Elmer"). Such a person can make things MUCH easier on a newcomer.

Glen, K9STH

w7act

12-05-2002, 05:17 PM

First of all let me say yes, I am a No Code Tech. and yes I have passed the General Test. I have taken at least two or three Code Classes as well as a number of Computer Code Classes and have tried the tapes as well, all with the same result. I listen try to copy and it all runs to geather like I have a learning disorder.

The largest area of disagreement I have with Code is I am also loosing my hearing from to many years of working in high noise environments and I would like to know is why should I have to learn code and I can't go for the Code Exemption like a number of known DX'ers who where given this Exemption Prior to the New Regs going into effect, why do they or should they get the Special Priviledge of Operating on the HF Bands and I can't after all I passed the same written test they took and they're only operating on HF Bands because some VE signed off on them under the old system.

My feeling is that if there is a five wpm requirement with no Exemptions let's apply this requirement equally to all Hams and require those Hams with the Exemption meet the same Requirement I have to meet. It's not right that those that suffer from the same medical conditions today are not given the same standards as those that went before them.

K6UEY

12-05-2002, 06:24 PM

I think there was a post concerning attitude,however that may be a horse of a different color,to extrapolate the point that KC7USZ is trying to make,I had to pass a 13 WPM code test requiring perfect copy of 65 continous characters in order to gain HF priviledges. So to continue his way of thinking NO ONE should be allowed to operate on the HF bands until they have passed a similiar test,by the way you had to demostrate you could send also before you could take the written test.
So why should they have HF priviledges before demostrationing the same proficiency.
One of the main reasons is that is what the current requirements for HF priviledges are,if you can pass you demostrate you are quaified,if you can't you are not qualified and either try harder as many others before you #have done or you sit around crying why can't I have the same priviledges with out working for it.
Life can be a bowl of cherries ,but some days it can be the pits.............. # # # # # # # #73, # ORV

KB9YKY

12-05-2002, 06:26 PM

usz, who told you that there was a "no-code exemption"? Someone is telling you fairy tales http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif There are totally deaf people who not only learn and pass the 5wpm code test= but have become actually very, very proficient at it and use it as their ONLY mode of operation. If a person cannot hear simple dits and dahs, how in the world are they going to hear the much more complex sounds of voice? BTW, you have not "passed the general test". You cannot "pass to general" without passing the element 1, 5wpm code test. Without element 1, you haven't really passed anything.

N0PU

12-05-2002, 06:39 PM

USZ:

The medical exemption you speak of was ONLY valid for the 13 wpm and 20 wpm tests...EVERYONE had to pass the 5 wpm in order to qualify for the exemption... and some friends of mine who could not do the tones passed on LIGHTs blinking...

You are not being 'dumped on' ... you are being expected to fulfill the same requirements as the old minimum...

Get over yourself... And as some of those on here know, I had more of a code problem than most...and I did it...

5 wpm is nothing... if ya can't hear it...do light...

Harry Kholer N0PU

KB9YKY

12-05-2002, 07:46 PM

Something that always puzzled me about those that claim that it is just IMPOSSIBLE for them to pass the element 1 test= Since it is just IMPOSSIBLE for them to learn code, why don't they concentrate on building really good vhf/uhf stations? There is no code requirement for operation above 50 Mhz and no code techs are allowed all amateur privileges on those frequencies. So instead of boo-hooing about how unfair things are for them, why don't they make the best of what they are allowed to do? Is it because it also takes some EFFORT to put a decent antenna up in the air aways? Is it because it takes more effort to put a good station together than it takes to use a walkie-talkie? Does the no-code bunch believe that if they were just given hf privileges that they could put together a station without any EFFORT also? Are they thinking somone will put up hf repeaters for them so that they will need no EFFORT? What's the story here, folks? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

w7act

12-05-2002, 08:23 PM

N0PU

Then what you are saying is that if someone who suffers from a learning disorder who reads a book and the words are all in a jumble and comprehend written text through no fault of their own is a second class citizen and therefore not qualified.

This is the same stigma my wife and many others have suffered at the hands of individuals such as yourself. She has suffered because Educators didn't reconize her Learning Disorder and passed her on as just another under achiever. Don't give me that as I've seen her wrestle and conquer problems that others have said she couldn't accomplish.

By your Standards Mel Tillis shouldn't be a successful Country Western Star because he stutters. Some of the Legends of Music shouldn' have been to compose music because they were deaf.

I have the problem of starting a sentence and thinking so far ahead of myself that I can't complete a sentence without having to go back and rethinking it out so that I can get the wording right, yet I can read, comprehend, analize a problem and reach a solution to the problem does that make me any less of a person than a person who can put in black and white or copy.

You say and others say 5 WPM no sweat anyone can do it I disagree, the people who have tried to teach me Code have given up, they say I know Code that I pick the individual Letters up faster than the rest, but when it comes to sending or receiving code it completely leaves me. As far as those that know me and as far as I am concerned I'm not lazy and my main problem with Code is people like you who take the Elitist Attitude toward Code.

Code is not or should not be the great denominator as to who can operate on HF just go to 80 mtrs any nite and listen to all the Code Elitist engaging in the fine art Amatuer Radio Communications on SSB Frequencies, let's face it in some aeas Chicken Banders have nothing new on Hams and I try to run a clean station on the bands within the scope of the bands my lisence allows mme to operate in.

KB9YKY

12-05-2002, 08:54 PM

"No fault...", "suffered at the hands of others....", "I have a problem...", "I can't complete...", "someone who suffers...", "people like you who take elitist....", "the great denominator...", "second class citizen" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Sounds like liberal banter http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif No wonder USZ expects to just be given privileges with no work or effort. Boo-hoo. Another poor victem of the ELITIST meanies http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

WB2GOF

12-05-2002, 09:04 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YKY @ Dec. 05 2002,16:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"No fault...", "suffered at the hands of others....", "I have a problem...", "I can't complete...", "someone who suffers...", "people like you who take elitist....", "the great denominator...", "second class citizen" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #Sounds like liberal banter http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #No wonder USZ expects to just be given privileges with no work or effort. Boo-hoo. Another poor victem of the ELITIST meanies http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why does everything that you disagree with have to be classified as "liberal"? I agree that it is banter, nonetheless, but it has nothing to do with political leanings, as far as I am concerned!

w5alt

12-05-2002, 09:10 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7USZ @ Dec. 05 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">N0PU

Then what you are saying is that if someone who suffers from a learning disorder who reads a book and the words are all in a jumble and comprehend written text through no fault of their own is a second class citizen and therefore not qualified.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, what he is saying is if you can't read a book, there are other alternatives, such as recordings, Braille, etc. You have to make the effort, though.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7USZ @ Dec. 05 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is the same stigma my wife and many others have suffered at the hands of individuals such as yourself. #She has suffered because Educators #didn't reconize her Learning Disorder and passed her on as just another under achiever. #Don't give me that as I've seen her wrestle and conquer problems that #others have said she couldn't accomplish.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Then she, and others, are to be commended. Most people I personally know with handicaps, don't complain about the rest of the world, but earnestly work to show that they are just like everyone else, and don't need special favors.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7USZ @ Dec. 05 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By your Standards Mel Tillis shouldn't be a successful Country Western Star because he stutters. #Some of the Legends of Music shouldn' have been to compose music because they were deaf.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
They didn't let their problem get in their way, did they? Maybe they should have petitioned for an exemption to not sing? A special recording label for stutterers? Maybe the deaf ones only wanted their music to be judged by other deaf people? I don't think so!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7USZ @ Dec. 05 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have the problem of starting a sentence and thinking so far ahead of myself that I can't complete a sentence without having to go back and rethinking it out so that I can get the wording right, yet I can read, comprehend, analize a problem and #reach a solution to the problem does that make me any less of a person than a person who can put in black and white or copy. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
But you didn't let that stop you from posting your message, right?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7USZ @ Dec. 05 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You say and others say 5 WPM no sweat anyone can do it I disagree, the people who have tried to teach me Code have given up, they say I know Code that I pick the individual Letters #up faster than the rest, but when it comes to sending or receiving code it completely leaves me. #As far as those that know me and as far as I am concerned I'm not lazy and my main problem with Code is people like you who take the Elitist Attitude toward Code.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As long as other people are your problem with code, you'll never get it. It's not a matter of laziness or intelligence. Once you get past your "main problem" and decide how to pass the test, you should be intelligent enough to figure out how. There is enough slack in the rules to allow you some leeway - as long as you really do learn the code.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7USZ @ Dec. 05 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Code is not or should not be the great denominator as to who can operate on HF just go #to 80 mtrs any nite and listen to all the Code Elitist engaging in the fine art Amatuer Radio Communications on SSB Frequencies, #let's face it in some aeas Chicken Banders have nothing new on Hams and I try to run a clean station on the bands within the scope of the bands my lisence allows mme to operate in.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We all listen to what we want to. However, the current rules say that both the code and a written test are required. If the rules change, so be it.

If you didn't comply with your last sentence, you would be operating illegally, so I'm happy to hear that you do follow the rules regarding spurious emissions and good amateur practice. That doesn't make anyone a good amateur, it just ensures that they are not breaking the rules.

Honestly, I wish you well and hope that you don't have to put as much effort into figuring out how to pass the code test as Mr. Tillis and the deaf composers did in overcoming their handicaps. When you do, I will be happy to commend you for your effort and accomplishment.

Vy 73,

KB9YKY

12-05-2002, 09:23 PM

GOF, I don't know what to tell YOU...if YOU do not understand the LIBERAL mindset, worn out rhetoric/chants, and agenda. What was posted was indeed liberal BS. He only forgot to spout off some hatred of our President.

W5ATX

12-05-2002, 09:26 PM

"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly." (Thomas Paine)

K9STH

12-05-2002, 09:49 PM

Don't get me started on the learning disability subject. I have a daughter who is learning disabled. But, by the time she was in high school we finally found out what her disability is. She is "left brained". That particular disability is when a person is right-handed but their thought processes are reversed from the "normal" right handed person. When a person is left-handed, their thought processes are, in general, reversed from those of a right-handed person. When someone is "left brained", they are right-handed naturally but their thought processes are reversed. Those people learn in a batch function not like most of us who learn things gradually. A lot of musicians are left-brained, especially those who are clasically trained.

A person with this type of learning disability will make the same mistake hundreds of times, then play the musical selection perfectly from that time onward. In school they will fail a test, then make 100 on the next test. Most of us learn things like the President's of the US to pass a test then promptly forget the list. My daughter, who is now 29, can still recite things like that which she learned in high school and before.

Even though this learning disability, like the hundreds of other types of learning disabilities that are around (in fact, every one of us has some sort of learning disability) is serious, it definitely does not affect how my daughter functions in the real world. She went to college, got married, and now has 3 children.

Every person has some sort of learning disability. Myself, I have problems remembering people's names that are spoken to me. But, if I see them written down (like a name tag on a person), then I have at least a 95 percent ability to recall that person. They can tell me their life's history, and I will remember that, but unless I see their name written down, I have less than a 20 percent chance of remember it.

As for teaching the code: I have been teaching code classes for almost 43 years (have been licensed for 43.5 years). The fastest that I have ever had someone learn the code who had no previous exposure was a fraternity brother of mine in college who went from nothing to about 10 words per minute in less than an hour! He just happened to be "musically inclined" although he was a ceramics engineering major. The longest length of time is about 8 weeks with a twice-a-week 1 hour session and, hopefully, the student practicing at home for at least two 15 minute sessions a day. I recommend shorter, but more often, sessions than one long session each day. You will do much better in two 15 minute sessions than one 30 minute session, at least that has been my experience.

To date, I have not found a single person who could not learn the International Morse code. However, you have to want to learn the code. If you start out with an attitude that you do not want to learn the code, then you will not learn the code. But, if you are truly willing to try, then you will learn the International Morse code within a relatively short time.

Glen, K9STH

N0PU

12-05-2002, 09:52 PM

USZ:

I spent 20 years, literally, trying to get command of code so I could get my (old type) technician licence... I have little patience for those who have code problems... I was willing to admit MY difficulty and be limited to the old Technician rules... That was MY problem not a problem with the system...

Believe me when I say I understand your problem... All I'm asking is that YOU find a way to overcome it... And changing the system is not the answer... I am here to tell you, you will be as proud of those 5WPM when you finally get it as any 20WPM guy out there... It is a matter of perspective... If you want a higher ticket bad enough you'll find a way...

I really do wish you good luck, but I believe you need a new outlook on life before you will become successful... Overcome your difficulties instead of beefing about the system...

I live with an example of what I am talking about... My wife was poisoned by her ex-husband with arsenic... She was paralysed from the nose down... she couldnt talk or even breath on her own... She shed her tears in private and showed a brave face to the world... She was given a 5% chance of speaking again on her own... She had her sons wiping her behind because she couldn't hold TP... I could go on for hours but won't bore you with the details... 10 years later and she finally gave up the the electric wheelchair, the walker, the leg braces and she is walking on her own... She could have given up anywhere along the line and no-one would have thought badly about it... but she kept working each day, every day and is about 90% recovered...

Point being... She didn't beef, complain, or bellyache... She just did it... and she still doesn't beef about it, although she admits she missing sewing because she can't pick up a needle or thread the machine... She does however give modivational speeches, and teaches 7th grade Math...

The one thing she stresses in her classroom is "Don't tell me you can't, tell me you are having difficulty, but never say you can't do something in my classroom."

I have found that when I have difficulty with something I just look around and I am very likely to find someone worse off than I. I then pick myself up and go on.

You can too.

Harry Kholer N0PU

w7act

12-05-2002, 10:03 PM

I guess I'm a "Liberal" that's all right I'll accept that moniker.

I served my Country in the Armed Services of this Country.

I didn't run to Canada to evade the Draft.

In the last Forty Years I didn't vote for any of Loser's the Democraps tried to Foyst on us (the Ted Kennedys, Al Gores, Bill Clintons, Walter Mondales, Lyndon Johnsons, etc.,etc.), although I am a registered Democrat.

I believe in the Constitution of this great Country, all the Costitution, including the Second Admendment (the Right to Bear Arms).

I think Jane Fonda and the Great Fornicater Bill Klinton should both be tried and convicted as Traitors for their actions in the Sixties in trying to overthrow the duelly elected Government of this Country at the time.

I could go on and on, but if that makes me a "Liberal" so be it.

I wasn't asking for any special treatment on my behalf in the matter. I was trying to carry the flag of any other Disabled or Handicapped Individual, who has a serious impediment who is or has been discriminated against by the N0PU's & KB9YKY's of the Ham Communiity.

Gentle I'm sorry for the tirade on the Subject, but there is two sides to the story and anyone who is on opposing sides of the question has a label put on them and that is wrong and as result I am as guilty as anyone in doing so.

Thanks for your time as I will not debate this subject further.

N0PU

12-05-2002, 10:11 PM

Arghhhhh...

N0PU

KB9YKY

12-05-2002, 10:29 PM

I have another theory as to why the no-code-want-it-anyway crowd refuses to put forth enough effort, thus cry that it IMPOSSIBLE to learn the slow code. The problem might just be that they want to "beat the test" and never learn the code at all. If they just want to get by with just beating the test, without any desire to actually make use of cw, of coarse they are not likely to do very well at it. The whole problem is attitude then. They look at it as an obstacle/barrier that is there to keep them out instead of the oppornunity to educate and improve themselves. It's like the guys that take the written tests, but don't want to actually learn the material, and just memorize the answers from the question pools. The no-code crew, if they could get their hands on recordings of all element 1 pool tests, they would probably memorize all the answers to the test= pass the test= while actually not knowing any code at all. They would rather put forth more effort to just memorize and beat the system, rather than just learn and use what would actually require less effort and would be more of a fun thing to do than just cramming for a test.

KD7KOY

12-05-2002, 11:38 PM

I don't think learning the code is that difficult. I am the first to admit that I am no "rocket scientist" when it comes to CW.
I learned with the ARRL CD's. I think they teach at about 7-8 words a minute. (I'm not sure..). I learned one letter a day. Thats all..Just one a day.
When I took the test the 5 WPM was a piece of cake.
I did'nt learn code to "impress" anyone. I did it because I felt it was good to know, simple to communicate with
(You can homebrew a CW transmitter out of literally "junk" parts which may come in handy one day if the need arises.) and it's a long tradition of ham operators.
Is it "archaic" compared with todays digital modes?..Yes..Does anyone use it anymore except hams?..Probably not.
But, is it a blast with an old tube transmitter like a Globe, Heathkit DX-40 or homebrew rig with an old $10.00 straightkey? You bet. I've had alot of fun with it. Not fast..but fun.
I'm not saying yea or nay either way. That is the reasons I learned.

nebula

12-05-2002, 11:43 PM

People, this is sorta getting kinda nasty. Your political views are not needed here, it only shows our emotional immaturity. The real l question being, should we keep the code requirement for your HF priviledges. I think yes. I can copy code, I am not licensed past tech-no code. Do I care if there is astigma about it,no. For those techs who complain about code should take heart to what kb9yky said about using your license priviledges. I have 2M allmode, 6M ssb,70 cm fm, provisions to add more bands to my vhf/uhf list. If we read about the HUGE spectrum we have available to us as technicians and all the possibilities that are present there, I sometimes wonder why I want to get my upgrades. I have my reasons that are not apart of this. WHen you consider the following ---cw, ssb, fm, atv,digital, satellite,metor scatter, microwave, eme, BANDWIDTH, etc. it seems like people complain because they do not understand all that is available to them. CW is very important in the scheme of things in vhf/uhf. If you want to succeed there in some areas, you will need to know code. HF is hf ,VHF and above is a whole different world. We should be promoting all the benefits instead of crying about code and hf.

w5alt

12-05-2002, 11:44 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7USZ @ Dec. 05 2002,1803)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was trying to carry the flag of any other Disabled or Handicapped Individual, who has a serious impediment who is or has been discriminated against by the N0PU's & KB9YKY's of the Ham Communiity.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Shame on you two! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #

ROFL

73,

W1RFI

12-06-2002, 12:02 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5ATX @ Dec. 04 2002,15:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly." (Thomas Paine)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you ever find a winning Powerball ticket on the ground -- or buy one for a dollar for that matter -- tell me if you think it has little value to you because you obtained it cheaply. :-)

The value of amateur radio is not in what it costs to obtain; the value is in what we can do with it, and changes in the testing process have not lessened that value for me one whit.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

W1RFI

12-06-2002, 12:18 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 04 2002,15:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To date, I have not found a single person who could not learn the International Morse code. #However, you have to want to learn the code. #If you start out with an attitude that you do not want to learn the code, then you will not learn the code. #But, if you are truly willing to try, then you will learn the International Morse code within a relatively short time.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I know a ham who very much wanted to pass here code test. I and a number of others offered her all sorts of advice and help and she literally struggled with it for over a year. #Not dabbled at it -- struggled at it.

If, as some have suggested, it is to require an applicant to show effort, she should be given an Extra with no further testing. She ultimately passed, but it took her a LOT more time and effort than it took me. #

After seeing that firsthand, I will never assume that everyone can learn code as easily as I did.

The real question is whether Morse code serves enough useful purpose in the Amateur Radio Service to require applicants to demonstrate proficiency or not become hams.

Back when I was licensed, Morse code was still a significant part of the rest of radio technology. #Is that still true today? #When Morse code testing was introduced into amateur radio, it was the ONLY form of radio communication that was in widespread use. Is that true today? #It was continued for decades to permit amateur radio to serve as an informal training ground to develop skilled code operators for the commerical and miliatary services. Is that need still present today?

When Morse code testing was introduced into amateur radio, it was to ensure that amateur radio had relevance to the radio technology of the day. That relevance -- and contribution to radio technology -- was one of the very pillars and strengths of the amateur radio service. Does #Morse code testing continue to help amateur radio maintain relevance to today's radio technology?

When I was a Novice, I, too, passed a 5 wpm test. I came home, lied about my homework and got on the air. I operated exclusively 80 M CW; my crystal frequency was 3704 kHz. #When I called CQ, or tuned around the band, there were plenty of 5 wpm QSOs to be had, and, over the course of 8 months or so, I built my code speed up to 13 wpm doing what hams love to do -- getting on the air and having fun.

I often tuned around the shortwave bands, and in various segments, I heard the CW ops pounding brass in the "real world." Yes, it was a lot of work to get to 13 wpm, but I had fun doing it, and hearing all the CW in use, having to demonstrate the same skills set well with me.

Today, if that same kid passes a 5 wpm test and lies about his homework, when he gets on the air there are NOT lots of 5, 6 and 7 wpm QSOs to be had. #He calls CQ and he calls CQ and he calls CQ and maybe once in a while, he gets an answer -- usually from the rare old timer who goes into the "Novice" band to work 'em. #The only choice that kid has to upgrade his speed to the speed most of us CW old timers use is to listen to code tapes or W1AW -- not nearly as fun as it was for me.

Then the kid tunes around the code bands and more than likely, doesn't hear a single code signal. #It simply is not extensively used in modern radio technology.

If things look different to today's new hams than it did to me it is because they ARE different.

If amateur radio wants to remain relevant to radio technology, it has a bit of change to go through yet, IMHO.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

ae4fa

12-06-2002, 01:02 AM

"when he gets on the air there are NOT lots of 5, 6 and 7 wpm QSOs to be had. He calls CQ and he calls CQ and he calls CQ and maybe once in a while, he gets an answer -- usually from the rare old timer who goes into the "Novice" band to work 'em."

Ed:

Really? A friend of mine went from just passing the code test in August to over 22wpm in November - and about half of his increase was in the old Novice subbands! And this was a guy who really had to struggle with the code. You sure we're talking about the same subbands?

Granted I, too, think the Novice subbands are inappropriate given today's licensing scheme. They should be moved down to X.050 - X.100, with digital subbands moving up to compensate or some such thing.

But the fact of the matter is they are not as dead as you think they are.

CW may never save the world, but it sure helps preserve my sanity (although some may question whether there's any left to preserve). The clowns you hear on HF SSB these days . . .

Come to think of it, maybe we ought to just do away with SSB. Its too easy. Yeah, that's it! This is a technical hobby. The best way to reinforce that fact is to require participants to get technical - you know - digital modes (even digital voice, which is well within our reach) - and skilled, as in CW.

Also, did you ever wonder why folks want to say CW is outmoded, when Morse Code is actually only about 150 years old - - - and speech is many thousand years old?

73, Bob

w5alt

12-06-2002, 01:27 AM

W1RFI,

I think we must have gotten licensed in the same era and I agree with your comments on the relevancy of amateur radio requirements. There are now, in my opinion, 2 big differences which you overlooked though.

First, if someone passes the 5 WPM code test and can't get anyone to chat with them on the Novice bands, they can always study for the General written exam and with that get on most parts of any band, CW or otherwise. That was not an option in my day, since passing the General written exam got you banned from the HF CW bands once the Novice ticket expired. (Stupidest rule ever made, I thought.)

Second, most of the hams I knew back then worked hard to get the CW down. As with anything, some got it easy, some struggled a whole lot. However, nearly all of them had decided they wanted a ham ticket. I know, when the bug hit, I wanted one so bad I could taste it. I would have learned Morse in Cyrillic or Chinese characters (is there such a thing?), if that's what it took. I don't see that attitude any more and perhaps that is what disturbs people more than anything else.

As to whether Morse is still relevant, well, I won't get into that discussion. I, personally, like it and use it a lot. But I also use PSK, SSTV, as well as lots of other modes I wasn't tested on, since they didn't exist back then. I think that CW, as the simplest mode, is still relevant, but I could be convinced that something else is more relevant.

73,

W1RFI

12-06-2002, 11:27 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ae4fa @ Dec. 04 2002,19http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Really? #A friend of mine went from just passing the code test in August to over 22wpm in November - and about half of his increase was in the old Novice subbands! #And this was a guy who really had to struggle with the code. You sure we're talking about the same subbands?

Granted I, too, think the Novice subbands are inappropriate given today's licensing scheme. #They should be moved down to X.050 - X.100, with digital subbands moving up to compensate or some such thing.

But the fact of the matter is they are not as dead as you think they are.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think so. Even with the differences in receiver selectivity, I remember wall-to-wall Novice signals starting pretty hot and heavy at about 3 PM when the kids got out of school. The last times I tuned the same segments today, I did not hear many -- and often not any -- signals. I welcome any evidence to the contrary; I do not listen to that part of the band often.

I will listen again this weekend. If they have come back to life, I will be pleased, because I have been concerned about the difficulty of getting past 5 wpm. Many old timers who are active on CW have increased their code speed well beyond 13 wpm. Right now, we have an opportunity to really promote CW use, because the recent rules changes have given us more code-tested amateur than at any time in history. But if we can't get them from 5 wpm to the speeds we customarily use, they will not become active on CW and they will lose the skill they have learned.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

W1RFI

12-06-2002, 11:49 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5alt @ Dec. 04 2002,19:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we must have gotten licensed in the same era and I agree with your comments on the relevancy of amateur radio requirements. There are now, in my opinion, 2 big differences which you overlooked though.

First, if someone passes the 5 WPM code test and can't get anyone to chat with them on the Novice bands, they can always study for the General written exam and with that get on most parts of any band, CW or otherwise. That was not an option in my day, since passing the General written exam got you banned from the HF CW bands once the Novice ticket expired. (Stupidest rule ever made, I thought.)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The Novice was 1-year, non-renewable. And, if one tried to upgrade to General and passed the written but not the 13 wpm code, he or she was a Technician, but at the time, that ham then LOST the Novice HF privileges. :-(

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Second, most of the hams I knew back then worked hard to get the CW down. As with anything, some got it easy, some struggled a whole lot. However, nearly all of them had decided they wanted a ham ticket. I know, when the bug hit, I wanted one so bad I could taste it. I would have learned Morse in Cyrillic or Chinese characters (is there such a thing?), if that's what it took. I don't see that attitude any more and perhaps that is what disturbs people more than anything else.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Perhaps you really would have done so, but I bet that most people would balk at being asked to learn Chinese characters because they would simply not be relevant to US amateur radio. More people are taking and passing a 5 wpm code test today than did in 1963, so why would you say that they don't have the attitude any more?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As to whether Morse is still relevant, well, I won't get into that discussion. I, personally, like it and use it a lot. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Me, too. In spite of my deep interest in digital modes, 99% of my operating is Morse code.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But I also use PSK, SSTV, as well as lots of other modes I wasn't tested on, since they didn't exist back then. I think that CW, as the simplest mode, is still relevant, but I could be convinced that something else is more relevant.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

More relevant to amateur radio? I am certain there is more CW use than PSK-31. More relevant to the rest of radio? The question I am asked most often about amateur radio by my non-ham engineering colleagues on industry committees is whether hams still use Morse code.

Will testing changes spell the end of Morse code use? Not as long as this OT is alive. But look at what you said; you are using modes you were not tested for. Why? Because those modes have interest and value. If we believe that Morse code has interest and value, then we should also believe that it will attract new proponents, just like the untested PSK-31 attracted you. Every single thing that is good about Morse code was still good when the FCC changed the speed to 5 wpm and will still be good if the code test is dropped.

Let me ask a question. If there were no code test, what would be the best way to promote the mode amongst new hams? The sabre rattling and accusations of attitudes changing, or a discussion about the merits of code use. IMHO, some of the things being said today by proponents looking to "protect" the mode will be rememberered, or as a minimum, the old timers will have to deny that they ever really said them. :-)

IMHO, Morse code testing will change again someday -- maybe soon, maybe later. I agree with those that believe it should not be a pass/fail requirement for HF access. (This is, btw, NOT ARRL's policy position. ARRL's policy is unchanged -- the ARRL supports the retention of Morse code testing for HF access. For that reason, you won't see me filing my views on this with the FCC, for example. But I can discuss my views on a ham forum, of course, because that is not undermining ARRL's policy at all -- only seeking to change the views of others.)

But I disagree with those that believe that code testing should go to zero. Morse code is the 3rd most popular mode in ham radio, right after the SSB and FM voice modes. It is the 2nd most popular mode on HF. Right now, the test has questions relating to many other modes, and it should have questions about CW and Morse encoding, too. CW is unique in that it has an encoding method that is decoded by humans (liveware) and it can and should be tested in some reasonable form.

So, how about this strawman: If amateur examinations included having the applicants listen to a 3 minute text of Morse code, and the written exam contained a reasonable number of questions about that text (by reasonable, perhaps about the same number of questions on the exam as might be found about SSB phonetics, for example), and the questions were simply a part of the overall written exam, would that not put Morse code on an equal footing with other modes?

If the applicant gets the answers right, that increases his or her score. If not, he or she will have to be smarter in some other part of the exam. Right now, a prospective ham can get ALL of the safety-related questions wrong and still be given a license, but if he or she does not get 7 out of 10 of the Morse code questions correct, no cigar.

This sounds like a compromise that keeps Morse code testing a part of the amateur radio service, but in a way that does not give it status that is greater than things like safety. The current pass/fail method of code testing gives Morse code a status equal to all of the rest of amateur radio combined. Does it really need that much "affirmative action?" :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

W8FAX

12-06-2002, 10:41 PM

I believe the novice ticket, and it's original purpose, was ruined the day it became renewable, power went to 200 watts, and the real death bell, when ops were given 10 meter phone privelages. When I was a novice in '62 I couldn't WAIT to get rid of XTAL control, get on the air with some phone, build a little amp, and work some "real" DX down at the bottom of the bands. These were good incentives to STUDY and upgrade. No more..................

WB2WIK

12-06-2002, 10:54 PM

W8FAX, I have the same fond memories.

In 1966 when I upgraded from Novice to General, my first goal was to use a VFO. I had one built in about 24 hours, and it was on the air by the weekend! And drifting a bit...which was solved by the addition of a used Hallicrafters HA-5, which was quite stable.

As for learning code, I also have never actually found anyone who couldn't be up and going at 5 wpm in a few days, using my personal method, which is to just listen to it and copy it, without paper or pencil or new-age learning styles. Works best when practiced by pairs of students, one sending and one receiving, who can change roles as often as they'd like to keep it interesting.

Obviously, much more difficult when practiced "alone," and nearly impossible if the student has no interest in ever learning it in the first place.

WB2WIK/6

W8FAX

12-07-2002, 12:57 AM

WB2WIK........Naaaa....it was easy. You only had to do 5 WPM and like you say, two guys and a little effort, no sweat.Even better if you listened on a radio to practice. Then you GOT ON THE AIR USING CW and it was clear sailing from there. No whining or foot stampin' or complaining. We just DID it and got on with ham radio. Sure hated those ol' XTALS tho'......73

w5alt

12-07-2002, 02:24 AM

Actually I was more interested in being able to use a VFO than getting the new frequencies. I think I had about 40 or 50 crystals that I ground for nearly complete coverage of the 40 and 15 meter bands, but only 2 for 80m and none for 10m.

After I passed the test, the first thing I did was make a VFO with a couple tubes and the guts of an old LM frequency meter - I still have it stored next to my DX-60B which I had obtained shortly before upgrading to General. Although I swore I'd never use CW once I upgraded, it was about 4 years and a rig or two later before I actually bought a microphone.

As far as CW, I never have been able to copy a tape, since I learned listening on the radio. Perfectly clean CW just doesn't sound right. Also, after making a few hundred QSO's, 13 WPM copy was a piece of cake.

n0xas

12-08-2002, 05:52 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MattBeers @ Dec. 07 2002,02:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ed, the novice bands really are that dead, I concur.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Really? #Not 40M in my experience. #I still make about half my CW contacts in the 40 Novice subband, most of them QRP, and I'll go out of my way to work someone who'se really, really slow. #I figure it's my responsibility to do so, to help out some guy trying to work up from 5WPM.

A lot of it stems from one guy - responded to my 6 or 7 WPM CQ at about 10, ignored my repeated requests to QRS, then sent me a QSL card with a snippy little message about how he couldn't understand why I was having trouble copying his signal and maybe I needed a better filter if I was going to do "serious" CW work. #Jerk. #Since when is a casual QSO "serious" in the first place, and how do you get an Advanced ticket without knowing what PSE QRS QRS means? #Anyway, I figure if that lid is still around, I'll just try to make up for his attitude with something positive. #Anyway, end of rant. #I wish they'd bring back the Novice ticket, personally. #But that's a whole other can of worms!

73,
Dale

ai4ep

12-08-2002, 01:08 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif might ought to keep the MORSE CODE around...no telling when or if those alien invaders from INDEPENDENCE DAY (movie from about 2 - 4 years ago ) might show up and AMATEUR radio will get to save the planet....plus it is kind of FUN to have a universal language for all to use all over the globe....( less than 20 days/nights tillCHRISTMAS ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ....kd4amg

ae4fa

12-08-2002, 01:10 PM

I'm with you, Dale, and I applaud your perspective. I try to do the same, but lately my operating time has been cut to almost zero.

Wish more guys would take your attitude!

73, Bob

KD7KOY

12-08-2002, 09:16 PM

N0XAS..I'll be honest. CW gets on my nerves..I can only listen to so much *beep* *beep* (I know it's dit dah but it sounds like *beep**beep* to me) before I have to turn it off.
Same with RTTY. Wabbling sound drives me nuts.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Personally I can't concentrate because it sounds bad to me.
Also had a few bad experiences as you with CW ops. so I don't go there. I know most are good people, but face it, when your struggling with something and someone gets mad at you because your not a blazing *beep* *beep*..er..dit..dah..no fun..If it's not fun for me, no sense in participating.
I don't even answer when they get that way. Lifes too short to hassle it.
I did'nt have a hard time learning it. But I will admit, I was not interested in it from the start and made it more hard than it would have been because of lack of interest.
Not knocking the CW thing so please no one go ballistic. I had to learn it for the ticket. But not my thing.
I do it for a diversion once on a blue moon with an old rig just to see if it works or I'm bored. I think it's a blast doing it with an old rig or something you make. But it's more of a "does it work" for me than actually wanting to do CW regularly.
If they get snotty I go away...I never would be a good CW op. I admit it..
I think people have personal reasons for yea or nay with CW. I don't judge anyone in what they want to do or don't want to do.
Like I said. Lifes too short for the hassles.

n0xas

12-09-2002, 04:51 AM

Disclaimer: Please don't take this as a slam against those who do not operate CW. #I have absolutely nothing against phone ops, I run phone from time to time too. #Nothing disparaging against any individual here is intended, but I think we've all heard what I'm talking about.

I should clarify. #That one jerk is the one single bad experience I've had on HF CW. #If you want to hear every arrogant, ignorant, offensive, foulmouthed, bigoted and/or drunken moron who shouldn't be allowed near a radio, check one of several phone bands. #You can always find 'em there. #People say Morse code doesn't make an effective LID filter... #my experience tends to convince me otherwise. #It's pretty bad when SSB beats TV for foul language and topics you don't want the kids to hear. #Yeah, I know, spin the dial... #I did, right down to the CW subband! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I started operating mostly CW because my "shack" was right under my daughter's bedroom, and I operated at night and didn't want to keep her awake. #I do it now because I enjoy it, it doesn't disturb anyone else, and I don't have to be worried about the people on the other end of the aura embarrassing me in front of friends and family. #Works great, and I enjoy almost every QSO. #In short, I probably feel the same way about SSB that you do about CW... #so we're in almost complete agreement! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73,
Dale

w3sy

12-13-2002, 05:44 PM

N0XAS sez:

"I should clarify. #That one jerk is the one single bad experience I've had on HF CW. #If you want to hear every arrogant, ignorant, offensive, foulmouthed, bigoted and/or drunken moron who shouldn't be allowed near a radio, check one of several phone bands. #You can always find 'em there. #People say Morse code doesn't make an effective LID filter... #my experience tends to convince me otherwise. #It's pretty bad when SSB beats TV for foul language and topics you don't want the kids to hear. #Yeah, I know, spin the dial... #I did, right down to the CW subband..."

I tend not to wave the "LID filter" flag much, but let me say again what I have said before: When I operate an SSB contest, I almost always encounter hecklers and other deliberate QRM'ers. This has not happened to me on CW. Ever. Not saying it never happens, but it has never happened to me. What's that tell you? Gee, I dunno. Draw your own conclusions. #heh heh....

Out.

W5ATX

12-13-2002, 06:08 PM

There is NO CW subband equivalent of 75 or 20 phone. Nuff said

KC2KFC

12-13-2002, 09:24 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, after making a few hundred QSO's, 13 WPM copy was a piece of cake.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I've only been on the air for about 3 months now (Tech with HF). I agree, I've had about 125 QSO's and I have very little problem copying 13WPM now. All this was done on the novice sub bands on 40 and 80 meters. The only way to really learn code is to work with someone else or work other stations. Also, I started with a straight key which I think helped quite a bit. For me the key to a good CW op is his/her rhythm. On a good night I can usualy make 3 to 5 QSO's. At 5 WPM that is a good deal of practice both sending and receiving.

I recently passed my exam for general, but am more excited about working the lower frequencies on CW than working phone. Perhaps I'm just one of those strange CW types #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

W8FAX

12-14-2002, 05:12 AM

Hooray for you Kevin. You have discovered what the rest of us Know coders know, and your speed and expertise will only get better. Welcome to the bands.........

KC0OFZ

12-16-2002, 02:55 PM

I would like to say that I don't harbor any negative feelings to CW. #I just passed my General written and CW test the other day and while CW was a challenge I did it. #A statement based on words of a former president (JFK), we do stuff not because it is easy, but because it is hard. #For me CW was a challenge, most of my studies have been easy but CW was a challenge. #I was not going to let it get me however and I stuck with it. #I admit I was not always the most faithful in my studies as I am also working on my masters degree and I have a lot to do there as well, but if I let a few days slip, it was my fault. #What I am trying to say is that I blame no one for the code requirement, it doesn't bother me. #I am proud of the privilage to operate the amateur bands and if CW is part of that requirement I will meet that challenge. #I now hope to continue to practice CW to get better. #I also hope to find an "Elmer" with the patience to help me improve my speed and accuracy.

73
KC0OFZ

WB6FTI

12-18-2002, 09:20 PM

For what it's worth, the following is an excerpt from the FCC's Report and Order for the Restructuring in 2000. Personally, I enjoyed my Novice code-only days; but like the FCC, I no longer believe Morse code alone can keep the gates - nor do I believe it ever was the gatekeeper. I believe the decline in operator decency is correlated with a general decline in decency; thus operator decency is a symptom of that general decline and merely coincidental with changes in code proficiency requirements. I quote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Based on our review of the record, we are not persuaded by the arguments of those commenters opposing reduction or elimination of the emphasis on telegraphy proficiency as a license requirement in the amateur service. To the extent that these commenters put forth arguments premised on personal preference or concerns regarding on-the-air etiquette amongst amateur radio operators, we reiterate pronouncements made in the Codeless Technician Decision. In that decision, the Commission stated that passing a telegraphy examination, for regulatory purposes, is no more and no less than proof of the examinee's ability to send and receive text in Morse code at some specified rate. Additionally, it addressed the issue of personal preference for telegraphy and claims that passing a Morse code examination would make for a better operator by stating:

We do not concur with the comments alleging that the passing of a telegraphy examination is an indication of the examinee's good character, high intelligence, cooperative demeanor, or willingness to comply with our rules. These traits are also found in individuals who have not passed a telegraphy examination rather that being exclusive to those who have passed such a test. With respect to comments that make claims for the superiority of telegraphy over other types of communications, we do not consider these arguments as germane to this proceeding. The Notice did not propose to discontinue the authorization of telegraphy CW emission types on any amateur service frequency. The amateur service in the future, as it has in the past, can provide to those who personally desire to do so the opportunity to communicate by telegraphy.

We are persuaded that because the amateur service is fundamentally a technical service, the emphasis on Morse code proficiency as a licensing requirement does not comport with the basis and purpose of the service. We note, moreover, that the design of modern communications systems, including personal communication services, satellite, fiber optic, and high definition television systems, are based on digital communication technologies. We also note that no communication system has been designed in many years that depends on hand-keyed telegraphy or the ability to receive messages in Morse code by ear. In contrast, modern communication systems are designed to be automated systems. Given the changes that have occurred in communications in the last fifty years, we believe that reducing the emphasis on telegraphy proficiency as a licensing requirement will allow the amateur service to, as it has in the past, attract technically inclined persons, particularly the youth of our country, and encourage them to learn and to prepare themselves in the areas where the United States needs expertise.

We also find unconvincing the argument that telegraphy proficiency is one way to keep amateur radio operators ready to be of service in an emergency. In this regard, we note that most emergency communication today is performed using either voice, data, or video modes. We also note that most amateur radio operators who choose to provide emergency communication do so, according to the amateur radio press, using voice or digital modes of communication, in part, because information can be exchanged much faster using these other modes of communication. Further, we note that in traditional emergency services, such as police, fire, and rescue, there is no requirement that emergency service personnel hold amateur radio licenses or any other license that requires telegraphy proficiency. We conclude, therefore, that telegraphy proficiency is not a significant factor in determining an individual's ability to provide or be prepared to provide emergency communications.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I would encourage hams to try as many modes of operation as possible, but I would not force one mode over another. Since we get what we test, the ham community will never enjoy greater respect until we STOP testing for the ability to guess test answers and START testing for good amateur practice by demonstration. Gene AC7UL

NG5L

12-20-2002, 04:54 AM

You do away with code, I'll lobby to do away with radio.
Might as well.
Some of you people have no vision.

ai4ep

12-20-2002, 05:14 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif if you do away with the MORSE CODE requirement for being a licensed amateur radio operator... then the next step within a year should be : buy your next amateur radio at wal-mart, along with your cb radios and uniden police/fire scanners. Keep the MORSE CODE requirement in amateur radio, it HELPS a lot to keep the riff-raff OUT of the HF bands ( but I am sure there is a great one-liner out there which will disagree )...just a few days till CHRISTMAS...then a full week till 2003....kd4amg

W1RFI

12-20-2002, 09:41 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Dec. 18 2002,23:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Keep the MORSE CODE requirement in amateur radio, it HELPS a lot to keep the riff-raff OUT of the HF bands. . .[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

If Morse code really were the great morality test#you believe it to be, perhaps you should advocate that judges, teachers, congressfolk and preachers all be asked to take a code test. Heck, for that matter, lets teach everyone in the Middle East the code and solve the world's problems. :-)

And I am willing to put a few sheckles on a bet that at no time in the next 10 years will we see ham licenses for sale in Wal Mart. Feel confident enough about your prediction to put up? I will toss in a year's membership in ARRL on me if you do. :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

W8FAX

12-20-2002, 11:10 AM

Maybe not next year, but the add on page 143 of the December QST says it will all be over by 2027. That is of course, unless we all cough off up some cash and send it to the ARRL to defend our spectrum privelages.

ai4ep

12-20-2002, 01:41 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif hmmm what would happen to the U S A economy IF ( wal-mart ) went bankrupt and had to go out of business ? #think about it... all of the little "mom & pop " stores that lost business would have a BIG opportunity to get back in business... stranger things have happened ==== to w4rfi: i honestly dont gamble on things as much as I could, but I do appreciate the offer #==== #and I was/am being SARCASTIC about geting amateur gear at wal-mart ( along with licences ), everything is made TOO easy these days... there is NO pride in saying you ACHIEVED this feat or that feat when a few years later the same achievement is "practically HANDED to " some one else #who is too LAZY to put forth the EFFORT and ENERGY to do it BEFORE it was made easy for JOHN & JANE DOE ( some folks would say the NO-CODE tech licence is a perfect example )... well guess I have scattered cigar ashes on enough shoes today... GOD bless all of you ( even #the athiests ) ---- kd4amg

ai4ep

12-20-2002, 01:44 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif should be w1rfi...my mistake on callsign... also forgot to mention that there are ONLY 11 days left in year 2002, so if you are going to do something CONSTRUCTIVE in the year 2002, you might ought to get busy !!! GOD bless all of you ( even the athiests )====kd4amg

n1ydx

12-20-2002, 02:16 PM

Howdy All,

I'm just so bummed that now that I have a used TS530 I won't be able to be on the air until at least January. Got my rig and key but no coax to go to a vertical.

Wish I could get on but even the local Ham Club won't be available to take my membership fee until 2nd Monday in January.

I want to get on and hit the key again. To heck with talking cuz anyone can talk, I want to get on again, put the headphones on to compensate for my deafness and let some code roll across my forehead like a teletype machine. Make notes and key back a reply with a straight key.

Let there be a 'No Code' license - Just keep the holders away from my band space altogether where the code-keepers can have fun.

Lee - N1YDX

n0xas

12-20-2002, 04:16 PM

W1RFI

12-21-2002, 12:06 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n1ydx @ Dec. 20 2002,09:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm just so bummed that now that I have a used TS530 I won't be able to be on the air until at least January. Got my rig and key but no coax to go to a vertical.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

In a pinch, you can use a twisted pair of wires as a feed line. #It should have an impedance of around 75 ohms or so, if memory serves. On the antenna end, connect one wire to the vertical, the other to ground. On the transmitter end, connect one wire to the center conductor of the PL-259 and the other to the sheild connection on the plug. #

I would double check the SWR on the radio. #The line will be somewhat mismatched so it will transform the ~50 ohms of the antenna to some other impedance. If the rig's SWR meter says 1.5:1 or less, just go for it. #At higher SWR, the line may be a bit lossy, but acceptably so, unless it is really long on 10 meters. #If the SWR is higher than 1.5:1, you can use an antenna tuner to match it to 50 ohms.

One last trick; if you can make the line about a half wavelength long electrically, the impedance at the antenna is what you will see at the other end and your rig can operate into it with a good SWR on the 50-ohm SWR meter inside the rig. Might be a bit tricky, because the line will be electrically a bit longer than its physical length, though. Start with the formula:

Length(feet) = 468 / FMHz

If the SWR isn't 1.5:1 or better, trim the line about 6 inches on 10 meters, about 3 feet on 40 meters and try again.

This is not a perfect feed line and it will probably radiate just a bit connected to an unbalanced load, but I used one back in the days of rigs that could be adjusted to match a wide range of impedances (my old DX-100) and it worked a lot of DX for me on my 40-meter dipole up 60 feet!

You can also use 75-ohm coax most of the time with no real problems.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

K9STH

12-21-2002, 01:12 AM

You can also use "zip" cord, that is the two wire lamp cord that most home lamps, etc. use. It is usually comes out between 50 and 75 ohms balanced. Just make sure that you get the side that goes to the radiator part of the vertical to the center conductor of the coax connector on the back of the rig and the side that goes to ground / counterpoise / radials connected to the outer ring of the coax connector. But, if you have to buy this new, coax is just about the same price in most cases.

However, for a short run (up to 50 feet, or so), you can use RG58/U which costs less than 25 cents a foot new at Radio Shack. In fact, you can sometimes find it for around 10 cents a foot. Also, check with your local cable TV company if you have one. They often have fairly short lengths (under 100 feet) of the twin coax down lead to the house from the main line, or even single coax. The short lengths are not usable because splicing is more costly than just using a longer piece to start with. These are 75 ohms, but will work fine. You can split the twin coax into separate pieces using a razor knife. This type of coax has an aluminum foil shield that will take a little bit of adaption if you don't use the type "F" connectors that are normally used on TV installations (available at Radio Shack). However, there are all sorts of ways to make connections to the coax and the cost of it is very good (FREE!). Also, the line losses are much lower than in many 50 ohm coax of similar size.

Glen, K9STH

W1RFI

12-22-2002, 01:21 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 19 2002,19:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You can also use "zip" cord, that is the two wire lamp cord that most home lamps, etc. use. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

A much better suggestion than mine for a reasonable substitute for coax. :-)

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

wb6bcn

12-24-2002, 06:28 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5ATX @ Dec. 13 2002,10http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is NO CW subband equivalent of 75 or 20 phone. Nuff said[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This may be true for the 75 meter band, however, the 80 meter band has no voice privleges. As far as the FCC is concerned,
As for 20 meters, I think you should look at the band plan again.
No band or band segment is exclusively for CW, just as no band or band segment is 100% voice. The only mention of CW anywhere in the band plan is when it specifically spells it out for a Technician or novice in the area they are allowed to operate below 10 meters.
If you haven't looked at the band plan lately, here is a link.

http://www.arrl.org/FandES....ml#309b (http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/d-305.html#309b)

n1ydx

12-24-2002, 01:49 PM

Hi,
Alright, I'm on my way to Radio Shack. Couple of connectors, a piece of pipe from the hardware store, couple of 'u' bolts on the backyard fence by the pool and I should be in business on the 10-80 vertical if I can get it down from the loft in the garage.

Thanks for the push. Hope to hear you all on the air using your 'ham presents' soon.

Lee - N1YDX ( Why, because its fun )

n0xas

12-24-2002, 04:18 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wb6bcn @ Dec. 24 2002,01:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
There is NO CW subband equivalent of 75 or 20 phone. #Nuff said [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This may be true for the 75 meter band,#however, the 80 meter band has no voice privleges. #As far as the FCC is concerned, As for 20 meters, #I think you should look at the band plan again. No band or band segment is exclusively for CW, #just as no band or band segment is 100% voice. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think what he meant was there is nowhere you will find CW ops using the kind of language and practices sometimes found in some parts of the 75 and 20 meter phone bands. #Of course CW is perfectly legal (if not always polite) anywhere in any Amateur band, as far as I can recall.

73,
Dale

W8FAX

12-25-2002, 10:11 AM

Yer right Dale. Even the ARRL refer's to the "CW Sub bands". I always thought it was the other way around. EVERYTHING ELSE is in a subband, NOT CW since it is allowed everywhere...........

AC7UX

12-25-2002, 05:57 PM

Enough with the UK bragging crap. most don't give a flip about the UK. (I had to say it folks. I know most was thinking it.) Merry Christmas to all and have a good year.

ai4ep

12-25-2002, 10:18 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif i bet you two would NOT talk like that to each other if you were face-to-face http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ...kd4amg http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

AC7UX

12-26-2002, 07:44 PM

Wanna bet?

AC7UX

12-26-2002, 08:22 PM

I guess crying can be thought of as an action.

AC7UX

12-27-2002, 01:19 AM

deleted? your so wrong about that. as most who have been to my site can attest. You and my son had an e-mail war. It's funny a boy besting an adult, but alas, he has been stopped from using the e-mail from my computer. rather crud some of his remarks in response to your ravings and threats, but he is a child after all. you should be ashamed of some of the things that you said to him. for his part he was scolded and banned from addressing you. what was your punishment to yourself for your rather bizarre behavior in your e-mails and your posting here on QRZ and elsewhere? Although it might be fun to see you fight with my child and be bested by him. I do have to be the adult and do the right thing and stop him from humiliating you further. #by the way, although no one is perfect, when might you learn to spell?

AC7UX

12-27-2002, 09:29 PM

Some advice then to prevent said situation: E-mail the staff at QRZ if you see a GIF file that you think is objectionable or E-mail the individual. DO NOT start a thread bashing the individual, as a mistake might have been made you are not aware of. If you get an E-mail you don't like, DO NOT send 20-30 E-mails trying to elicit a negative response. DO NOT assume you are having AN E-mail war with the said party. It might just be someone else. When E-mail is sent to you, DO NOT try to say it was sent to your kids. DO NOT try to flame a forum page with foul language then go to a neutral site and say how terrible foul language is. DO NOT start threads under an assumed name like PHANTOM OF THE AIR bashing someone and think no one knows its from you. DO NOT say your going to make someone famous by writing negative information about someone to news papers and magazines and not understand the libel laws. If even the first two points above was followed, said situation would have been avoided.

M3TMC

12-27-2002, 11:23 PM

I dont need advice from you if i want to point out your filth then i will!
The matter is in the hands of the Police. Put your evidence to them just as I have on the advice of AOL. Your forum has much to be desired as you have. You are a man with no manners and a liar. Every email,web page has been saved by me and AOL and has been passed on by me to the Police. It is been investigated. You tryed to Complain to Blueyonder and was ignored because from the very first email it was all traced, they was shocked at your "Front!"
You can not shut me up with you "Bullie" tactics and as I am the one with my ISP account and you are the one that had his deleted for sexualy explicit emails to children and harassment. You say it was your Son but for it to go on for so long and all the many complaints, it is hard to believe you wasnt the one. You still post on other forums. Many Amateurs have emailed me and asked me if it was true. I pointed them to the web page where your emails are. Disgusted is the responce i got. You still try to carry on with your posts on QRZ. You are a sad man and need to visit a doctor!

I dont know why you was reinstated on QRZ but its looking like you have blamed you son for your disgracefull behaviour and not because you are a valued member as you said, bragging to me! Maybe, English are not as welcome on the forum and you was suspended just to humour "The Brits" for what most Adult would regard as a serious and sick attack on a user!

If readers want to see what this man sent to my children, then email me and i will forward you his emails.
You do the same Mike.
Next time you send out emails to children telling them how you and your friends are going to bugger them then think again because this farther wont let it happen. For all your lies in the past posts i will defend myself and i have all the evidence i need to back it up!

My children now do not use the radio and have to be supervised on the pc. So much for the Amateur spirit, to terrify two young Amateurs to the extent that they no longer want to be associated with the hobbie and need mum or dad around when using the PC for fear of sexualy abusive email. 9 and 13 year old CHILDREN!
Dress it what ever way you want, it still stinks!
Nodoubt you will cry to QRZ for this post as usual. It is just a game to you jummping from one forum to the next. Playing the "Goodie Goodie" on one and the "Baddie" #on the next . So you "Ride" with the Hells Angels? A common statement from you to try instill fear!
Complain away!

This situation would have been avoided if you was not the man you are and even if your porn icon was a misstake then, accepted it and not attacked me and my family!