Taliban gaining power in Afghanistan

[K6BBC]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91IJRJO0&show_article=1

It seems Bush's seven year war in Afghanistan is going south. Everyone remembers Afghanistan. It's that place where Osama Bin Ladin attacked us from. It sort of got forgotten when he invaded that other place -- Iraq.

You remember Iraq. It was that secular country where there was almost no terrorist activity. It was that country that kept Iran in check. It was that place that no longer possessed WMDs. You know. That place.

bbc

[k7van]

And both Iraq and Afghan are the places where 'we' remain bogged down, Vietnam style, in a war we can't win and don't dare lose. The solution in both places will also be the solution seen in Vietnam: Declare victory and get the hell out.

Anybody notice that the US has not won a major war since 1945?

Eisenhower, a Republican, surrendered both China and Korea to the Commies.
Nixon, a Republican, surrendered Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia to the Commies.
Raygun, a Republican, surrendered Lebannon and the Middle East to the Moslem extremists.
Bush SR, a Republican, surrendered Iraq back to Saddam, and
Bush JR, a Republican, will might just make it out of office before he's forced to surrender Iraq AND Afghan!

Such a great success story.....

de K7VV

[N4VGB]

And both Iraq and Afghan are the places where 'we' remain bogged down, Vietnam style, in a war we can't win and don't dare lose. The solution in both places will also be the solution seen in Vietnam: Declare victory and get the hell out.

Anybody notice that the US has not won a major war since 1945?

Eisenhower, a Republican, surrendered both China and Korea to the Commies.
Nixon, a Republican, surrendered Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia to the Commies.
Raygun, a Republican, surrendered Lebannon and the Middle East to the Moslem extremists.
Bush SR, a Republican, surrendered Iraq back to Saddam, and
Bush JR, a Republican, will might just make it out of office before he's forced to surrender Iraq AND Afghan!

Such a great success story.....

de K7VV

What are you complaining about? You and 'BBC are cheerleaders for surrender! Ya get what ya want and then whine about it!!! :eek::confused:

[K6BBC]

Yeah, a wrecked economy.

bbc

What are you complaining about? You and 'BBC are cheerleaders for surrender! Ya get what ya want and then whine about it!!! :eek::confused:

[N4VGB]

Yeah, a wrecked economy.
bbc


OH! I get it now! If Afghanistan and Iraq were not affecting the U.S. economy adversely, you would have no complaint!? :rolleyes:

[w5klb]

Yeah, a wrecked economy.

bbc

...from a Democratically controlled Congress. Any yet, YOU support ANOTHER Democrat that will wreck it even further.

"If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging." -Will Rogers, Native Oklahoman.

[K6BBC]

Well, that Jesus freak president of ours has murdered a bunch of innocent Iraqis -- that bothers me some. If you want to throw congress in that mix, that is fine with me. Bring all the bastards up on charges.

bbc



OH! I get it now! If Afghanistan and Iraq were not affecting the U.S. economy adversely, you would have no complaint!? :rolleyes:

[K6BBC]

Only the past 18 months - Bush had both houses until 06. He took office Jan 2001.

bbc

...from a Democratically controlled Congress. Any yet, YOU support ANOTHER Democrat that will wreck it even further.

"If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging." -Will Rogers, Native Oklahoman.

[N4VGB]

Well, that Jesus freak president of ours has murdered a bunch of innocent Iraqis -- that bothers me some. If you want to throw congress in that mix, that is fine with me. Bring all the bastards up on charges.
bbc

Bush pulled a tour in Iraq!?!?!? Must have been a sniper, nobody spotted him?

[K6BBC]

I guess dead children are funny to you. Nick joke.

bbc

Bush pulled a tour in Iraq!?!?!? Must have been a sniper, nobody spotted him?

[KD5ZPG]

And both Iraq and Afghan are the places where 'we' remain bogged down, Vietnam style, in a war we can't win and don't dare lose. The solution in both places will also be the solution seen in Vietnam: Declare victory and get the hell out.

Anybody notice that the US has not won a major war since 1945?

Eisenhower, a Republican, surrendered both China and Korea to the Commies.
Nixon, a Republican, surrendered Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia to the Commies.
Raygun, a Republican, surrendered Lebannon and the Middle East to the Moslem extremists.
Bush SR, a Republican, surrendered Iraq back to Saddam, and
Bush JR, a Republican, will might just make it out of office before he's forced to surrender Iraq AND Afghan!

Such a great success story.....

de K7VV

More anti American blather (http://forums.qrz.com/showpost.php?p=1264494&postcount=13) from you.........a) how can you as an American spout this trash and b) get sooo much enjoyment doing it!!!

This is not left vs right politics...........you truly hate your country......and don't start with that "I hate my government drivel."

If I was in the K7VAN IDAHO OREGON DX GROUP we would have a come to Jesus meet'n about you using the club call sign espousing this anti American rhetoric.

[w5klb]

Well, that Jesus freak president of ours has murdered a bunch of innocent Iraqis -- that bothers me some.

It should of bothered you even more that a tyrant would kill his own people. According to you and the "why are we there" crowd, the Iraqi people would have been better off to have us leave this creep alone so they he could kill more of his own people and perhaps threaten some of his neighbors.

If you want to throw congress in that mix, that is fine with me. Bring all the bastards up on charges.

bbc

This would include B.O. (Plenty). Oooops... I forgot... he votes "present" most of time in the Senate, listened to a wacko preacher slamming America for twenty years, and associated with a Slum Lord in Chicago who is going to be some prison inmate's "girlfriend." "President B.O.?" Well, if that happens, we'll all might be facing Mecca on our prayer blankets 5 times a day, or we will calling each other "comrade."

[K6BBC]

I think criticizing ones government is very American. Did you ever take civics in school?

bbc

More anti American blather (http://forums.qrz.com/showpost.php?p=1264494&postcount=13) from you.........a) how can you as an American spout this trash and b) get sooo much enjoyment doing it!!!

This is not left vs right politics...........you truly hate your country......and don't start with that "I hate my government drivel."

If I was in the K7VAN IDAHO OREGON DX GROUP we would have a come to Jesus meet'n about you using the club call sign espousing this anti American rhetoric.

[K6BBC]

You are right. We are now much better off after handing Iraq to IRAN.

Secondly, it is not our responsibility to protect the world. No oil there and we would have never bothered.

bbc

It should of bothered you even more that a tyrant would kill his own people. According to you and the "why are we there" crowd, the Iraqi people would have been better off to have us leave this creep alone so they he could kill more of his own people and perhaps threaten some of his neighbors.



This would include B.O. (Plenty). Oooops... I forgot... he votes "present" most of time in the Senate, listened to a wacko preacher slamming America for twenty years, and associated with a Slum Lord in Chicago who is going to be some prison inmate's "girlfriend." "President B.O.?" Well, if that happens, we'll all might be facing Mecca on our prayer blankets 5 times a day, or we will calling each other "comrade."

[w5klb]

I think criticizing ones government is very American. Did you ever take civics in school?

bbc

There's a difference between constructive criticism and trashing and denigrating your own country. You and your fellow socialist seem to get enjoyment out of the latter two.

[K6BBC]

Socialist?

bbc

There's a difference between constructive criticism and trashing and denigrating your own country. You and your fellow socialist seem to get enjoyment out of the latter two.

[KD5ZPG]

I think criticizing ones government is very American.

There is a huge undeniable distinction between critisizing ones government and running down one's country.............I for one will not let it stand.

[K6BBC]

Sorry you can't tell the deference. The poster wrote nothing anti-American. It just happens to be an apposing view to yours. Being an American is not easy sometimes OM.

bbc

There is a huge undeniable distinction between critisizing ones government and running down one's country.............I for one will not let it stand.

[w5klb]

You are right. We are now much better off after handing Iraq to IRAN.

Secondly, it is not our responsibility to protect the world. No oil there and we would have never bothered.

bbc

Iran sent insurgents to help destabilized the country and kill more of our troops, true. But since the surge with help from "The Awakening" (Sunni and Shiites working together), a lot of that has stopped. You need to get out more often, take in some fresh air once and a while.

No oil there and we would have never bothered.

Riiight. It was "all about the oil," wasn't it? So that's the reason it's costing me nearly $100 bucks just fill up my vehicle. Who would of ever thunk it?
:rolleyes:

[N4VGB]

Since the Taliban are "gaining power" by blowing things up and shooting a lot of people, I could take control of the U.S. easily at this point! Nearest nutcase militia group, hold the door open, here I come with a plan! :eek:

[K6BBC]

I know it is difficult for you to see Bush's failures since you probably think he was sent here by Jesus to save the world, but, the record is pretty dismal. $100 to fill up. My sympathies. I saw this coming two years ago and bought a hybrid. You probably need to trade in the crap GMC you are driving and get a smaller, me efficient car.

bbc

Iran sent insurgents to help destabilized the country and kill more of our troops, true. But since the surge with help from "The Awakening" (Sunni and Shiites working together), a lot of that has stopped. You need to get out more often, take in some fresh air once and a while.



Riiight. It was "all about the oil," wasn't it? So that's the reason it's costing me nearly $100 bucks just fill up my vehicle. Who would of ever thunk it?
:rolleyes:

[KD5ZPG]

Sorry you can't tell the deference. The poster wrote nothing anti-American. It just happens to be an apposing view to yours. Being an American is not easy sometimes OM.

bbc

Hummmmm..........no.

I have never rejoiced in any perceived defeats of my country......nor have I suggested how other countries could form a pack that would harm this nations people and economy. (http://forums.qrz.com/showpost.php?p=1264494&postcount=13)

You will not cloud my issue with K7VV.

[w5klb]

Socialist?

bbc

Yes, S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-T. And don't give us the crap that you vote "Republican". We see the B.O. avatar. I have read your post for many years and it is my strongest opinion that you're being disingenuous about your political ideology.

Conclusion: You're about as much "Republican" as the Pope is Hindu.

Some other things...

Fact: I'm a conservative in the Republican Party
Fact: I strongly support President Bush, Secretary Gates AND OUR TROOPS in the prosecution of the Iraqi war.
Fact: I'm also a U.S. Navy Veteran.
Question: What have you done for YOUR country today besides trashing and denigrating it?

[K6BBC]

Well, I see you are playing the "I'm a veteran card" so I'm the real American in this discussion. Bullsh*t on that. I'm sick of hearing it. Find a new song -- PLEASE!

Secondly, I was a republican most of my adult life but resigned that affiliation when it was clear the religious nut jobs were in charge of the party.

I congratulate you on still supporting Bush. I guess with you and his jock strap that makes two.

I have four American children who all love their country but also understand being critical and watchful -- especially of demagogs like Bush who use people's weakness and superstition to control them -- it part of their responsibility of being an American.

bbc


Yes, S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-T. And don't give us the crap that you vote "Republican". We see the B.O. avatar. I have read your post for many years and it is my strongest opinion that you're being disingenuous about your political ideology.

Conclusion: You're about as much "Republican" as the Pope is Hindu.

Some other things...

Fact: I'm a conservative in the Republican Party
Fact: I strongly support President Bush, Secretary Gates AND OUR TROOPS in the prosecution of the Iraqi war.
Fact: I'm also a U.S. Navy Veteran.
Question: What have you done for YOUR country today besides trashing and denigrating it?

[w5klb]

I know it is difficult for you to see Bush's failures since you probably think he was sent here by Jesus to save the world, but, the record is pretty dismal. $100 to fill up. My sympathies. I saw this coming two years ago and bought a hybrid. You probably need to trade in the crap GMC you are driving and get a smaller, me efficient car.

bbc

"Bush failures" are turning into successes. I got a cousin who is a "First Shirt" (E-8) in the U.S. Army just fresh back from Anbar Province in Iraq. He had his doubts too at first, as WE ALL DID. If you will remember Anbar was the most dangerous place to be. He claims that's all changed. See, I don't listen to the "talking heads" on "The Obama Channel" (NBC). I listen to the men and women soldiers WHO WERE THERE. ;)

I don't drive a GMC. But I get about 55 mpg on my bike and only cost me about $10 bucks to fill up. ;)

ZOOM, ZOOM, ZOOM.

P.S. My bike is a 750cc Honda Shadow. :cool:

[N4VGB]

Question: What have you done for YOUR country today besides trashing and denigrating it?


Answer: Made some really bad TV and film! :(

[K6BBC]

Oh yeah. Your feet are ugly.

bbc

Answer: Made some really bad TV and film! :(

[N4VGB]

Oh yeah. Your feet are ugly.

bbc

I knew that I should have burned those pics! :o

[K6BBC]

There's even a film on YouTube - disgusting.

bbc

I knew that I should have burned those pics! :o

[w5klb]

Well, I see you are playing the "I'm a veteran card" so I'm the real American in this discussion. Bullsh*t on that. I'm sick of hearing it.

Another "keyboard commando." Why don't you use your cell phone (since you sold all of your radio gear) and call someone who cares.

I get sick of hearing whiny little movie mogul wannabes like you the and rest of the socialist ilk in "Gutterwood" bashing vets and our country. If it wasn't for people like us, you wouldn't be enjoying doing what you're doing now. And that is making "movies" wasn't it?

[N4VGB]

There's even a film on YouTube - disgusting.

bbc

:eek: I'm ruined! :o

[K6BBC]

Why do you feel you need to insult me by calling me a socialist and then hide behind your service to our country. Don't you think that is a bit degrading. And would you mind pointing out to me the evidence I am a socialist. Perhaps I don't understand what a socialist is and maybe I have become one and did not notice.

And another thing. I did not sell all my gear. I kept my 5 watt Yeasu. I intend to get my DXCC on qrp this sunspot cycle.

bbc


Another "keyboard commando." Why don't you use your cell phone (since you sold all of your radio gear) and call someone who cares.

I get sick of hearing whiny little movie mogul wannabes like you the and rest of the socialist ilk in "Gutterwood" bashing vets and our country. If it wasn't for people like us, you wouldn't be enjoying doing what you're doing now. And that is making "movies" wasn't it?

[N4VGB]

And another thing. I did not sell all my gear. I kept my 5 watt Yeasu. I intend to get my DXCC on qrp this sunspot cycle.
bbc


:o That may be a long wait. :o

Ra is a bit lazy and slow to appear?

[K6BBC]

I know. The last cycle was really great. It took about three years to make up the 70 I needed. I was only using 100 watts and a mini-beam but finally got their. I have heard a lot of reports, even on commercial radio, that this cycle may be very weak. I am bummed because who know how many more cycles I have in me.

bbc

:o That may be a long wait. :o

Ra is a bit lazy and slow to appear?

[k7van]

Wow!

a. Did I say anything that was not TRUE about the Republicans who 'surrendered' (your term) in all those wars? If so, rebutt it. But you can't. Like all of todays Republicans you met facts with personal attacks, because the facts arn't on your side.

b. How about patriotism... Let's talk about Senator Max Cleland, former US Senator from Georgia. You guys remember him. Lost both legs and part of an arm in Vietnam. Yet...the R's, with AWOL George leading the charge, accused him of being unpatriotic....because he opposed Bush.
Or, how about YOUR VP. You know, rabble rouser Dick, who when asked about his lack of military service said, and I quote: I had other priorities. Sorry, don't wanna hear no more about being 'unpatriotic'. George and you Republicans have a near monopoly on being unpatriotic.

c. Now about the 'Democratic congress'. Lets go back to the Iraq War resolution and remember how Bush, Cheny, Powell and Rice lied and created phony evidence to support the pre-determined decision to go to war. And yet, 21 D's in the Senate, plus 1 R and 1 Independent voted NO. In the House 126 D's voted no and only 6 R's. And this in a Republican controlled Congress. So...it's YOUR war, you and Bush and the rest of the Republican party who are now supporting McBush and his 'stay 100 years' policy.

d. Bush didn't have to physically go to Iraq and kill people to be guility as a war criminal. Remember the Nuremburg War Crimes Trials? (and more recent war crimes trials as well.) The Commander in Chief, who started the war, controlled the strategy, and approved of the operations that were/are 'waging aggressive war', 'waging war against civilians', etc etc, ARE guilty of criminal acts.

e. Iran is on the verge of becoming a major power in the Middle East BECAUSE of the Bush war policies. Not so many years ago SECDEV Cheney went to Iraq (you can see the picture of him shaking hands with Saddam), and gave him anthrax, poison gas, sprayers and helicopters. We know that, at the time, Saddam had WMD's....we have the receipts! We even helped develop a nuclear program. Iraq was then the US counterbalance against Iran. No longer.

f. Iraq is not Vietnam. Iraq has more sand. But, in both cases Presidents put American power and world standing on the line, became engaged in a quagmire, and could not find a way to get back out. They found that it's easier to start wars than to end them. That analogy stands. George's solution is like LBJ's, leave office and let the next poor bum have to deal with it.

g. The Vet Card. OK, I was USN from 1966 thru 1972. So what? Does that make me a hero (not unless puking a thousand gallons makes you a hero!), does it make what I say about Vietnam or Iraq more creditable....not likely. In short, being a vet has no bearing on the arguement.

So. If you guys have facts, logic, and a counter arguement, let's hear'um. If you just want to point the 'you're unpatriotic' finger, forget it.

de K7VV

[KD5ZPG]

Why did you waste all that band width with your dribble......

I am sure there is a communist/socialist country you can find that you would be happier in...........

[N4VGB]

Wow!


That's what I say. :rolleyes:

Take a couple of months at that secret lake getaway, you desperately need a break. :rolleyes:

[ac4r]

Wow!

Let's talk about Senator Max Cleland, former US Senator from Georgia. You guys remember him. Lost both legs and part of an arm in Vietnam. Yet...the R's, with AWOL George leading the charge, accused him of being unpatriotic....because he opposed Bush.

de K7VV

The people of Georgia voted Cleland out of office because he was a left winger . Roy Barnes , the governor, was also kicked out of office for the same reason.

[k7van]

for making my point even better than I did!

de K7VV

[k7van]

The point, which you probably missed, was that the President of the US and the R's did NOT simply oppose Senator Cleland because he was a Democrat, they conducted a now all to typical Republican smear campaign calling him unpatriotic because he opposed Bush's policy. It seems to most of us that somebody who gave the service to his country that Senator Cleland did can hardly be called unpatriotic. Wrong, in error, incorrect, perhaps; but not unpatriotic. A smear by any other name still smells like a smear.

Likewise, it would be an error to call Senator McCain 'unpatriotic' simply because I disagree with him. He is wrong, in error, incorrect and holds opinions contrary to mine that I believe are bad policy and bad for the country; but he is not unpatriotic because I disagree with him. Disagreement with Republicans, however, ALWAYS leads to them making charges of being unpatriotic.

de K7VV

[n2ize]

Why did you waste all that band width with your dribble......

I am sure there is a communist/socialist country you can find that you would be happier in...........

That's a brilliant response and so typical. When you can't dispute the facts call the person a communist. It's easy that way.

[KD5ZPG]

Hummm..........rewind.

More anti American blather (http://forums.qrz.com/showpost.php?p=1264494&postcount=13) from you.........a) how can you as an American spout this trash and b) get sooo much enjoyment doing it!!!

This is not left vs right politics...........you truly hate your country......and don't start with that "I hate my government drivel."

If I was in the K7VAN IDAHO OREGON DX GROUP we would have a come to Jesus meet'n about you using the club call sign espousing this anti American rhetoric.

[KD5ZPG]

Rewind..........2

Hummmmm..........no.

I have never rejoiced in any perceived defeats of my country......nor have I suggested how other countries could form a pack that would harm this nations people and economy. (http://forums.qrz.com/showpost.php?p=1264494&postcount=13)

You will not cloud my issue with K7VV.

[k7van]

And where did I suggest that?

de K7VV

[k7van]

quote: There is a huge undeniable distinction between critisizing ones government and running down one's country.............I for one will not let it stand.

Yes, and apparently you can't tell the difference.....

de K7VV

[KD5ZPG]

quote: There is a huge undeniable distinction between critisizing ones government and running down one's country.............I for one will not let it stand.

Yes, and apparently you can't tell the difference.....

de K7VV

Oh I can tell the difference.......I see it quite clearly.

[k4kyv]

There's a difference between constructive criticism and trashing and denigrating your own country. You and your fellow socialist seem to get enjoyment out of the latter two.

Why are so many Americans so insecure and defensive about their own country? People who live in places like the UK and France delight in deriding their native country and its leaders all the time, and if anything, others chime in and add their own 2¢ worth, but in the end, no-one takes it too seriously. Here, make a negative statement about the USA, rightly or wrongly, and you have a lynch mob ready to burn your house down or physically assault you for being "unpatriotic" and "hating America".

[KD5ZPG]

Why are so many Americans so insecure and defensive about their own country?

Its called being patriotic and proud of our country that so many died defending. (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=165566&highlight=civil+war)

We are not other countries.......we can bash each other all day long on left or right wing issues..........just don't bad mouth our good nation.

[N4VGB]

Wow!


OK, you just keep blathering!? :rolleyes:

a. Republicans got us out of a bunch of wars that Dumbocrats got us into. Granted, I fail to see the point, it was what the people of the U.S. were clamoring for and they got it. :confused::rolleyes:

b. I just happen to be a former resident of Georgia and I'm very familiar with Max Cleland. Generally a nice guy and undoubtedly he paid a high personal price for his military service, granted. My personal opinion of him was that I didn't care for his politics and he was a bit of a flake at times. Sorry, but nobody gets a free pass in politics.

c. The Congress has been Dumbocratic again for quite a while now, I haven't noticed any actual change. Have you? Well there is the fact that Pelosi and Reid work hard to silence any talk of investigations or impeachment! I'm sure that they're just nice people. 3 people completely snookered 535 people eh? Well that sure makes those 3 people seem to be smart ones and the 535 people seem to be dummies!

d. I suspect that even if Obama is elected, Pelosi and Reid will have him signing a Pardon for Bush faster than McCain would do the deed. Don't hold your breath for the trials of this administartion. You surely have noted how zealously Pelosi and Reid guard Bush from danger? Accomplises perhaps!?

e. You can find pics of a lot of U.S. politicians shaking hands with Saddam. For the available candidates at the time, JFK probably made a decent choice on installing Saddam into power in Iraq. On the nuclear idea, you're all wet. France sold Saddam the nuke reactor and the Iranians & Israelis both bombed the place out of existence before nuclear fuel was ever loaded. Poison gas with sprayers and helicopters to use it eh? Makes me wonder why it was loaded in artillery shells for delivery in most reported cases of it's use in Iraq? Even if Obama manages to bail out of Iraq, Israel is ready to take out Iran's uranium enrichment facility, don't know if they'll leave the Russian built nuke power plant intact or not?

f. So ya think Bush should refuse to yield and stay as President? Didn't know that was possible? Otherwise f. is a senseless statement by you.

g. Take the "vet card" and the "race card' and any other cards you want to play with and take a long vacation at the lake. You'll enjoy it.

[k7van]

a. The Korean War---began when North Korea attacked South Korea in 1950. No US President had anything to do with that.
The Revolution in China was started by a Democratic American President? Please describe that process!
The War in Vietnam became an American war under the Republican Eisenhower, who provided arms and money to the French, and after they lost he provided military assistance and military advisors (MACV) to the so-called S. Vietnamesse government. He also supported them in their refusal to hold the election required under the 1954 accords, because he knew the Uncle Ho would win that election hands down. So, it was a Republican who got us involved in that mess.
Lebanon--Ronnie the Forgetful deployed the Marines to Beirut as part of a Multi-National Peacekeeping force. When 241 Marines were killed by suicide bombing he withdrew, thus showing terrorists, for the first time, that America could be beaten by terrorist methods, and would run away.
Iraq-1. Bush Senior, at the conclusion of the First Gulf War refused to finish off Saddam, and even had American forces stand idly by as the Republican Guard murdered thousands of Kurds in the north and thousands more Iraqis in the Basra area. From beginning to end, the First Gulf War was a Bush Sr, and hence Republican war, with a very bad ending.
Iraq-2. The Baby Bush, instead of finishing off Bin Laden when he had the chance, pulled the 10th Mountain Division out of Afghan to begin training and deployment for the idiotic war in Iraq. He has now cost us two war time failures.

Conclusion: You don't know your history very well. No Democratic President was involved in ANY of the origins of ANY of these wars. But, it is nice to see your willing to admit that if a majority of the US population wants us to pull out of Iraq (as they do), then that is what we should do. Good show!

b. You did miss the point. Sullening a war heros honorable record is not acceptable politics, especially by a President who was himself a drug user as a pilot and went AWOL for a year.

c. You did't even try to address the issue. Speak to the issue.

d. Didn't address this issue either, what is this, you can't admit the US government has committed crimes against humanity?

e. I quote: "JFK probably made a decent choice on installing Saddam into power in Iraq." Ah, well, that would have been quite a trick. Saddam came to power in 1979. Jack Kennedy had been DEAD FOR SIXTEEN YEARS!
Oh, and you didn't address the issue here either.

f. Nobody can be that dense. No, I'm not suggesting loonyman stay in power. The point was, now pay attention here, that LBJ choose to leave office (he did not run in 1968/69 for a second term), leaving the Vietnam mess to Nixon. Baby Bush is prolonging the Iraq war and deliberately turning it into the biggest mess possible because he knows he'll leave it to a Democratic President to clean up. Both had strategies to escape responsibility for the mess they had created.

g. Just another silly personal attack requiring no rebuttal. Can't you Republicans ever think of anything NEW to do?

I could recommend a couple of good US history texts if your interested.

de K7VV

[k7van]

Actually, the US helped begin Iraqis nuclear program in 1956 under the Eisenhower administration and then assisted in 1975 in the development of the French reactor, which was not capable of producing weapons components. We even trained some Iraqi engineers in this country in those years. Note, however, that this is prior to Saddam's taking power in 1979. So, as I said, we did help develop a nuclear program, but we did not help develop a weapons program. Saddam converted the 'peaceful' energy program into a weapons program--we merely gave them the tools to do the job.

de K7VV

[N4VGB]

Oops, JFK installed the Baath Party not Saddam himself. You'll just have to give a Republican a misspoke on that one!

Eisenhower sent money, some arms and advisors so he's responsible for the Dumbocrats turning Vietnam it into a full blown war! Congratulations, that's the biggest and most illogical stretch any Dumbocrat has ever attempted on here.

Gee we missed a chance to have kept troops in Lebanon all these years!? What a travesty that we left!?

There is no such thing as Iraq-1, the first Gulf War just booted Saddam's boys from Kuwait and wasn't a U.S. operation at all, it's was a UN action with Syria and Saudi Arabia and several other Gulf States along also. The deal from the start on that one was for Kuwait only. The other Arab nations would have never gone along with invading Iraq at that time.

Besides my goof on Saddam and the Baath Party, everything else stands.

Bush started Iraq to dump it on the Dumbocrats eh? That's why we call you guys Dumbocrats!

[N4VGB]

Actually, the US helped begin Iraqis nuclear program in 1956 under the Eisenhower administration and then assisted in 1975 in the development of the French reactor, which was not capable of producing weapons components. We even trained some Iraqi engineers in this country in those years. Note, however, that this is prior to Saddam's taking power in 1979. So, as I said, we did help develop a nuclear program, but we did not help develop a weapons program. Saddam converted the 'peaceful' energy program into a weapons program--we merely gave them the tools to do the job.

de K7VV

And Iran had small pile reactors for research and medical purposes in the 60s, Big Deal!

The type of small reactor that the French sold Iraq was suspicious from the start, not normally used for power generation.

You are indeed a strange one. Even for a Dumbocrat.

[k7van]

Quote:
Oops, JFK installed the Baath Party not Saddam himself. You'll just have to give a Republican a misspoke on that one!

K7VV: You mean JFK PERSONALLY WENT TO IRAQ AND LEAD THE COUP!
Ah, I don't think so.....
Anyhow, the 1963 and 1968 coups are interesting. The standard histories of Iraq don't mention CIA involvement at all. The claim comes, ahum, from Liberal/LeftWing/Commie/Anti-American sources, which, in this case at any rate, you appear willing to believe! Gimme a break here....NOW you're willing to believe these kinds of sources! Come on, be consistent! If they are right it makes the Republican case even worse, because then the US was supporting a murderous dictator in Iraq for almost THIRTY YEARS! But only when it served our purposes, of course. Like putting dictators in power who will sell us cheap oil.

Quote:

Eisenhower sent money, some arms and advisors so he's responsible for the Dumbocrats turning Vietnam it into a full blown war! Congratulations, that's the biggest and most illogical stretch any Dumbocrat has ever attempted on here.

K7VV: Eisenhower is responsible for the initial support of the French in their war in Indochina, paying for most of it. He materially aided the French, after 1954 he dispatched military advisors, allowed them to become engaged in combat operations, supported a corrupt government, and helped prevent free elections. Yes, he created the mess. JFK continued the process, but did not expand the war. LBJ, with SECDEF McNamara pushing an agenda of 'graduated response' was opposed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, especially LeMay, who advocated 'bombing them back into the stone age'. Neither understood the natural of 'wars of national liberation'. The Navy, bless them, phonied up the Tonkin Incident, sold it to LBJ, who then greatly 'escalated' the war, as we said in those days. So the military got the wider war THEY wanted. Big mistake. So, my position is that DOD basically lied to LBJ about Tonkin Gulf and pushed or led him into a wider war. Not the first time DOD has done such a thing, and not the last. Remember the phony 'bomber gap' and the phony 'missle gap', and then, of course, there's the phoney 'WMD's in Iraq.....

Quote:

Gee we missed a chance to have kept troops in Lebanon all these years!? What a travesty that we left!?

K7VV: I did't say that. We were part of a Multi-National Peace Keeping force asked into Lebanon by the UN. Our role and length of stay would have regulated by the UN. My point, as you well know, was that the hero of the right wing nuts, Ronnie Raygun, ran away from a fight just as fast as he could, showing the 'terrorists' that the US could be beaten and would run away. HE is the guy mainly responsible for the growth of terrorism against the US because he was a spineless coward....something you Republicans seem to ignore.

Quote:

There is no such thing as Iraq-1, the first Gulf War just booted Saddam's boys from Kuwait and wasn't a U.S. operation at all, it's was a UN action with Syria and Saudi Arabia and several other Gulf States along also. The deal from the start on that one was for Kuwait only. The other Arab nations would have never gone along with invading Iraq at that time.

K7VV: What, Gulf War 1 didn't happen! We didn't liberate Kuwait! We didn't go into Iraq and crush the Iraqi Army and Republican Guard! Ah, well, actually, US forces were 72% of the total forces engaged. Does that sound like it 'wasn't a U.S. operation at all...' Sounds to me like it was MAINLY a U.S. operation.

You guys don't get to rewrite history just because you don't like what really happened.

Quote:

Besides my goof on Saddam and the Baath Party, everything else stands.

Bush started Iraq to dump it on the Dumbocrats eh? That's why we call you guys Dumbocrats!

K7VV: No, everything else does not 'stand'. It fell.
And you know full well that I never said Baby Bush started Iraq so he could pass it on to the D's. What I did say was that when he found out he could NOT 'win' in Iraq is sought to make the biggest mess possible to pass on to the D's. Quit making things up as you go and misrepresenting what people say.

de K7VV

[k7van]

The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution passed in the House unopposed. Only two voted against it in the Senate, Democrats Morse of Oregon and Gruening of Alaska. Both brave men and truly vindicated by subsequent events.

Which is to say, hardly a Democrat war, every Republican voted for it as well.

Reminds you of what you can do in Congress if you're willing to phony up the evidence and lie through your teeth. Sure glad we learned our lesson from that as nothing even close to such a web of lies has driven us blindly into war since then..........right?

It was repealed, over a Nixon veto, in 1971.

de K7VV (a vet, so I MUST be right!)

[K3XR]

Time for the LEFT to shift the focus....

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=135FE718-24AD-4E21-AD2A-41C08B4D8B17

[K3XR]

What's the hate America crowd to do, shift focus, I guess.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=135FE718-24AD-4E21-AD2A-41C08B4D8B17