Another black eye for US public relations with Iraq

[KW4MW]

Bible thumpers at work - Marines pass out Gospel verse to Iraqi Muslims (http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080529/wl_mcclatchy/2951727_1)
FALLUJAH, Iraq — At the western entrance to the Iraqi city of Fallujah Tuesday, Muamar Anad handed his residence badge to the U.S. Marines guarding the city. They checked to be sure that he was a city resident, and when they were done, Anad said, a Marine slipped a coin out of his pocket and put it in his hand.

Out of fear, he accepted it, Anad said. When he was inside the city, the college student said, he looked at one side of the coin. "Where will you spend eternity?" it asked.

He flipped it over, and on the other side it read, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16."

"They are trying to convert us to Christianity," said Anad, a Sunni Muslim like most residents of this city in Anbar province. At home, he told his story, and his relatives echoed their disapproval: They'd been given the coins, too, he said.

This we just don't need. It is so wrong for so many reasons. To me one of the most hateful things in the world is someone trying to jam their religion down another persons throat.

[N5NPO]

Bible thumpers at work - Marines pass out Gospel verse to Iraqi Muslims (http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080529/wl_mcclatchy/2951727_1)

This we just don't need. It is so wrong for so many reasons. To me one of the most hateful things in the world is someone trying to jam their religion down another persons throat.

Perhaps they should have been foprced to convert or be beheaded...
Oh wait, that is what the muslems would do to the marines if the shoe was on the other foot.

[N4VGB]

Strange, Islam supposedly reveres Jesus. Both Christians and Jews are "the people of the book" in Islam. I guess you're also unfamiliar with the fact that Allah is literally translated as GOD. Sounds like the Muslims and you need to practice what you preach. :rolleyes:

Of course the obvious and easy thing for this insulted Muslim to do would have been to drop the coin as soon as he read it, but there's little propaganda to be had from that action!!! :p

Americans are the most gullible people on the face of this earth! :)

[N5NPO]

Strange, Islam supposedly reveres Jesus. Both Christians and Jews are "the people of the book" in Islam. I guess you're also unfamiliar with the fact that Allah is literally translated as GOD. Sounds like the Muslims and you need to practice what you preach. :rolleyes:

Of course the obvious and easy thing for this insulted Muslim to do would have been to drop the coin as soon as he read it, but there's little propaganda to be had from that action!!! :p

Americans are the most gullible people on the face of this earth! :)

Origionally known as the moon god....
Hence the red crescent symbol.
Interesting history this, Muhammad guy has.

Anyway, imagine what the reaction in this country would be if a "Muslem" gave a "Chrisian" a coin that said on one side "There is but one god Allah" and on the other side it said "and Muhhamd is his profit".
Think there would have been any fuss?

[k4kyv]

Anyway, imagine what the reaction in this country would be if a "Muslem" (sic) gave a "Chrisian" a coin that said on one side "There is but one god Allah" and on the other side it said "and Muhhamd is his profit".
Think there would have been any fuss?

Add to the scenario: this Moslem is a cop and authorities who are now forcefully occupying the country are all Moslem.

[KW4MW]

I knew a "Christian" that basically condemned 3/4th of the world population by declaring that because they weren't Christians they were going to Hell. That incident alone has caused my disdain for religious fanatics.

Do the other faiths send out missionaries into underdeveloped countries in order to convert the heathens? if so I haven't heard of them.

Are there Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, etc. knocking on your doors to sell you their brand of religion? Nope, the overwhelming number of people trying to convert others to their own brand of religion are predominatly of some sort of Christian faith.

Is it ethical to go into a country of a different faith, hold it under siege and force your faith upon the populace? It's one thing for a zealot to come up to you in a free and open society and try to force their religion upon you. There you can simply walk away. However when you have an authority figure, armed and in uniform forcing his beliefs upon you, you might feel obligated to meekly accept whatever token his is giving you and complain later when you're back among friends and family.

And the bottom line is that this Marine (or Marines) was not acting on orders nor was he acting in the best interest of his country. In a situation as volitile as Iraq his actions were counter to the goal of achieving the Iraqis trust.

[N4VGB]

Anyway, imagine what the reaction in this country would be if a "Muslem" gave a "Chrisian" a coin that said on one side "There is but one god Allah" and on the other side it said "and Muhhamd is his profit".
Think there would have been any fuss?


Not from me. I'd probably thank him and call him brother, see what reaction that I got from him. :)

Might be fun to see how he would react? :)

[N4VGB]

Do the other faiths send out missionaries into underdeveloped countries in order to convert the heathens? if so I haven't heard of them.


Muhammad sent out armies to conquer and force conversion to Islam on those conquered. When he rang your doorbell, it was convert or die. :p

[K0HWY]

They said they wanted a holy way. So, what's with the fuss?

[KW4MW]

Muhammad sent out armies to conquer and force conversion to Islam on those conquered. When he rang your doorbell, it was convert or die. :p

That happened about 1400 years ago. His warfare was with Mecca not any European or Christian based country. - His goal was the moral elevation and unification of the Arab tribes.

His successor, Umar later conquered Damascus and Syria in 635, Jerusalem in 638, and all of Palestine fell in 640, followed by Egypt in 641, and subsequently Iraq and Persia by 649. Umars's successors pushed on through North Africa to be in Spain within a century. They also progressed into Turkestan, Mongolia and India.

The French, under Charles Martel repelled them during the Battle of tours and turned them back into Spain.

Ref: A History of the World's Religion - David S. Noss

So Mohammed did not send out armies to ring my doorbell and either convert me to Islam or kill me. Nor did any of his successors since their armies only made it to Spain where they were turned back. My ancestors lived in Palantine Germany among Catholics and Lutherans.

[N4VGB]

His goal was the moral elevation and unification of the Arab tribes.


Those people that ring your doorbell are only interested in your moral elevation also. ;)

If it's the Jehovah's Witness that aggravate you, tell them you're Catholic, they will never return to your door! ;)

[KB9BVN]

I knew a "Christian" that basically condemned 3/4th of the world population by declaring that because they weren't Christians they were going to Hell. That incident alone has caused my disdain for religious fanatics.

So you let the comments of one bonehead affect you that much, even though you recognize the bonehead, as a bonehead?

Do the other faiths send out missionaries into underdeveloped countries in order to convert the heathens? if so I haven't heard of them.

Well there you go. If YOU haven't heard of them, then they must not exist. Right?

Are there Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, etc. knocking on your doors to sell you their brand of religion? Nope, the overwhelming number of people trying to convert others to their own brand of religion are predominantly of some sort of Christian faith.

I have been approached in the airport by what I think were Buddists, but I haven't had a Jew or Muzzie knock on the door to check my odds of being a saved soul. The rest of your comment is stupid though, and also nothing more than your errant opinion.

And the bottom line is that this Marine (or Marines) was not acting on orders nor was he acting in the best interest of his country. In a situation as volitile as Iraq his actions were counter to the goal of achieving the Iraqis trust.

How do you know what orders he was acting on? He gave the guy a coin with a Christian comment on it, big deal.

[KW4MW]

Originally Posted by KW4MW
I knew a "Christian" that basically condemned 3/4th of the world population by declaring that because they weren't Christians they were going to Hell. That incident alone has caused my disdain for religious fanatics.
So you let the comments of one bonehead affect you that much, even though you recognize the bonehead, as a bonehead? No, actually that was the tipping point as a result of having to tolerate fanatical Christians for the most of my life.


Originally Posted by KW4MW
Do the other faiths send out missionaries into underdeveloped countries in order to convert the heathens? if so I haven't heard of them.
Well there you go. If YOU haven't heard of them, then they must not exist. Right? Obviously you have - enlighten me please with both religious affiliation and numbers.



Originally Posted by KW4MW
Are there Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, etc. knocking on your doors to sell you their brand of religion? Nope, the overwhelming number of people trying to convert others to their own brand of religion are predominantly of some sort of Christian faith.
I have been approached in the airport by what I think were Buddists, but I haven't had a Jew or Muzzie knock on the door to check my odds of being a saved soul. The rest of your comment is stupid though, and also nothing more than your errant opinion.
"I think they were Buddhists" ??? Buddhists, Krishnas, Hindus - something like that.

"Muzzie" ??? Wow! We are Mr. Tolerance today aren't we !!

Then you begin the personal attack. You hint that I'm stupid. Really? Would you care to put a number on my stupidity - say on a scale of 1 to 10 or will you be man enough to just admit that instead of proving my my remark to be erroneous (not errant) you dismissed my opinion with a wave of your stupidity wand?

Regarding my errant opinion. Errant as in (1) wayward (2) sunful (3) naughty (4) misbehaving (5) delinquent (6) badly behaved. Something tells me that you'll pick (2). :D


Originally Posted by KW4MW
And the bottom line is that this Marine (or Marines) was not acting on orders nor was he acting in the best interest of his country. In a situation as volitile as Iraq his actions were counter to the goal of achieving the Iraqis trust.
How do you know what orders he was acting on? He gave the guy a coin with a Christian comment on it, big deal.
First of all it is a big deal. Unfortunately Bible thumpers won't see it that way. They bitch and moan about the "Muzzies" wanting to make everyone a Muslim but they see it as perfectly OK for Christians to do the same. That's pretty much at the peak of hypocrisy.

Secondly, it is not the mission of the US Marines or the DoD for that matter to promote Christianity throughout the world. Members of the Armed Services serving abroad are all cautioned that they are to act as diplomats in a foreign country. That is to say that they are expected to observe and respect the customs of the people and not force their own customs and beliefs upon them. The Marine at a minimum violated that trust and in doing so he probably also was in violation of in country command directives. But Hey - he did it for JeeeeeSusssss - that's makes it OK. I'm sure that his family somewhere in the Bible belt are proud of him.

[N9MOQ]

. .

[KP3FT]

I knew a "Christian" that basically condemned 3/4th of the world population by declaring that because they weren't Christians they were going to Hell. That incident alone has caused my disdain for religious fanatics.

Do the other faiths send out missionaries into underdeveloped countries in order to convert the heathens? if so I haven't heard of them.

Are there Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, etc. knocking on your doors to sell you their brand of religion? Nope, the overwhelming number of people trying to convert others to their own brand of religion are predominatly of some sort of Christian faith.

Is it ethical to go into a country of a different faith, hold it under siege and force your faith upon the populace? It's one thing for a zealot to come up to you in a free and open society and try to force their religion upon you. There you can simply walk away. However when you have an authority figure, armed and in uniform forcing his beliefs upon you, you might feel obligated to meekly accept whatever token his is giving you and complain later when you're back among friends and family.

And the bottom line is that this Marine (or Marines) was not acting on orders nor was he acting in the best interest of his country. In a situation as volitile as Iraq his actions were counter to the goal of achieving the Iraqis trust.

Give me a break...
Does everyone really lack that much confidence in their own beliefs that they can't tolerate someone offering them something else? Just say no and life goes on. It's no different than a door-to-door salesman offering goods for sale. You either say yes or no, simple as that. I'm so sick of hearing that ridiculous rationale of "cramming religion down people's throat." You think that muslim man suffered irreparable emotional damage simply from a Bible verse? Get some backbone, people...
Missionaries going to other countries...so what??? You think the native countrymen can't make up their own minds? Again, they can either accept it or reject it, life goes on...

[N2RJ]

Christianity is a cult. The faster we get rid of it, the better.

[K0RGR]

OK, it seems that Muslims are easily inflamed. God-willing, someday, they will come to realize how foolish it makes them look. I know that most Muslims are not this way, but those who aren't really need to exert pressure on those who are, since we infidels seem to have little influence.

That Marine is WAY out of line. America is a free country, where you can say whatever you want, although, I suspect he'd find himself on report for doing the same thing on any street corner in New York City. Iraq is not as free. Many Muslims believe in freedom of religion - they just interpret that to mean "freedom from any religion other than Islam". In most Muslim countries, trying to convert a Muslim to another religion is a serious crime, sometimes punishable by death.

Yes, Islam has many medieval and draconian aspects. Some Christians believe in flagellating themselves to honor Christ. Hopefully, someday, Islam will find its way out of the 12th century.

[k8wpj]

Bible thumpers at work - Marines pass out Gospel verse to Iraqi Muslims (http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20080529/wl_mcclatchy/2951727_1)

This we just don't need. It is so wrong for so many reasons. To me one of the most hateful things in the world is someone trying to jam their religion down another persons throat.


Isn't that what started a large portion of the in fighting in that neighborhood in the first place?

[k8wpj]

So you let the comments of one bonehead affect you that much, even though you recognize the bonehead, as a bonehead?



Well there you go. If YOU haven't heard of them, then they must not exist. Right?



I have been approached in the airport by what I think were Buddists, but I haven't had a Jew or Muzzie knock on the door to check my odds of being a saved soul. The rest of your comment is stupid though, and also nothing more than your errant opinion.



How do you know what orders he was acting on? He gave the guy a coin with a Christian comment on it, big deal.

and i have been given similar coins by fellow hams at club meetings.... It doesn't make it right...

[N4VGB]

Christianity is a cult. The faster we get rid of it, the better.

YEP, worked for Rome just fine. :p:p:p

The faster we could send your butt back to Trinidad the better. :p:p:p

[N9XR]

I have to side with my old friend 4MW on this one. As a Christian, I see the whole conversion thing as a very sensitive issue. Who believes that anyone will be converted by a friggin coin? Give me a break.

This act has a deeper meaning and it ain't to convert anysbodys.

Many here like the face of Christianity to be seen as a bunch of lunatics who believe in coins and killing.

I believe these are the actions of someone who really wants terrorism back on the homefront. The Marine found a button he can push and he pushes it hard.

It will push back.

Muslims believe in Jesus and the mother Mary and the God of Abraham. Christians believe in popping coins and killing as far as they are concerned.

[N4VGB]

I have to side with my old friend 4MW on this one. As a Christian, I see the whole conversion thing as a very sensitive issue. Who believes that anyone will be converted by a friggin coin? Give me a break.

This act has a deeper meaning and it ain't to convert anysbodys.

Many here like the face of Christianity to be seen as a bunch of lunatics who believe in coins and killing.

I believe these are the actions of someone who really wants terrorism back on the homefront. The Marine found a button he can push and he pushes it hard.

It will push back.

Muslims believe in Jesus and the mother Mary and the God of Abraham. Christians believe in popping coins and killing as far as they are concerned.

I know that if a Muslim handed me a free Quran that I wouldn't be offended at all, my old one is worn out and I need a new one! :)

Only the Muslim is insulted by the other two believers in the GOD of Abraham! That is not the fault of the Christian or the Jew! :)

[N2RJ]

The faster we could send your butt back to Trinidad the better. :p:p:p

Don't waste your time, Dilmus. I aint going back, and since I'm a US citizen, they can't make me.

[N4VGB]

Don't waste your time, Dilmus. I aint going back, and since I'm a US citizen, they can't make me.

Yeah, I know, another migrant that came here to change the place to his own image of what it should be. Forget you, the Mexicans have you outnumbered. And the Dumbocrats are going to give them every dime they can steal from you-sucker. Work hard OM, the porch sitters need your support. :p

[N2RJ]

Yeah, I know, another migrant that came here to change the place to his own image of what it should be.

Doesn't that really pi$$ you off? I hope it does. If not, please tell me what does, so I can do it.

Forget you, the Mexicans have you outnumbered.

Fine by me.

And the Dumbocrats are going to give them every dime they can steal from you-sucker. Work hard OM, the porch sitters need your support. :p

You make more money than me by your own admission, so I'd think you're the bigger sucker. :)

I'm glad they're taking your money. Making your life more miserable than it already is is totally worth it. :) :)

Anyway, enjoy your cult, the little time you have left on this planet. At least when you die you won't realize you've wasted your time all these years.

[N9XR]

I know that if a Muslim handed me a free Quran that I wouldn't be offended at all, my old one is worn out and I need a new one! :)

Only the Muslim is insulted by the other two believers in the GOD of Abraham! That is not the fault of the Christian or the Jew! :)

You wouldn't be offended if Dubya took a dump on your face, but it doesn't mean that other people wouldn't.

[N4VGB]

You wouldn't be offended if Dubya took a dump on your face, but it doesn't mean that other people wouldn't.

Why would I be upset about a Quran or any quote from it, it's only words. I already own one Quran and have studied it for many years. It just seems to me that Islam shows itself as a religion that must be protected from any other religion of the same GOD. Making it appear to me as the only religion of GOD that is only supported by the use of force and isolation.

I've had several good one on one debates with local Muslims and they have told me that my Bible was perverted by and the words changed by the Jews. Big problem for them was the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and them containg so many books of the Bible which bear out very well with the King James Bible, doesn't appear much is inaccurate in any way but in the translation of a few words that don't change the overall concepts at all.

So Jews don't offend me, Muslims don't offend me, but for some unknown reason I and Jews are an affront instantly to Muslims. And you apparently agree with them? Take a look at Wikipedia under "people of the book" to see how Jews, Christians and Muslims are supposed to deal with each other. It's not a very in depth article but does hit the high points. :)