Tories plan boot camps for jobless youths

[KB5FVS]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/26/conservatives.welfare

Tories plan boot camps for jobless youths

A future Conservative government will bring in "boot camps" for unemployed young people aged between 18 and 21 who refuse to take a job, Chris Grayling, the party's welfare spokesman, will say tomorrow.

In a significant hardening of Conservative policy towards welfare claimants, he will announce the abolition of benefit payments for any able-bodied person under 21 who is out of work for more than three months and who refuses to go on a compulsory community service programme or a "boot camp" training course aimed at improving their work discipline and giving them basic skills to get a job.

Grayling plans to ask private sector companies and voluntary organisations to run the intensive training centres - with the £5,000 it costs to support a single person on the dole being offered to the company or voluntary group once the person has been in work for one year. Individuals will be expected to report to the centre every day for an intensive training programme.

Some private companies - notably the Australian firm Work Directions - have successfully bid for business from Labour on a " bonus basis" to get the disabled back to work.

Grayling will say: "We plan to introduce much tougher rules for young people under the age of 21 claiming jobseeker's allowance. For this group, the welfare to work process will start much earlier. There will be employment 'boot camps' and community work programmes for those who don't find a job. Staying at home doing nothing will be a thing of the past."

Under the Tory proposals, unemployed young people who do not find a job within three months will be referred automatically to a specialist employment provider, where they will be expected to take part in an intensive programme of work-related activity. If they spend 12 months out of work, they will then be moved on to a full-time community work programme lasting a further year.

The hardening of Tory attitudes towards the unemployed will be combined with much tougher polices than Labour to get single parents and the disabled back to work, and a big move to privatise provision to help the unemployed. Ultimately the move could see the end of state-funded Jobcentres and a big reduction in size of the Department for Work and Pensions, which has already lost 30,000 jobs under Labour.

Grayling will also announce a clampdown on those who misuse government training programmes. This follows disclosures that government claims to have retrained three million people on the New Deal were false after 750,000 people were found to have been on the training programme twice, and a few dozen as many as six times. Some people also avoid going on the programme by signing off benefits for a week when they are due to go on the programme, only to sign on again a short time later.

Grayling will say: "Under our proposals, there will be no room for that kind of manoeuvre. In that situation, the clock will simply be frozen. It won't be reset to zero again. With this approach, for those who are struggling there will be real help. For those who are not, there will be no opt-outs. We will end the street-corner benefit culture among young people which this government has left to fester for the past 11 years."

The measures should cut crime because people would not be hanging around with nothing to do, Grayling will say. For those who decided to embark on a life of crime because they would not work and could not get benefit, there would be "zero tolerance from the criminal justice system".

[KV1M]

What the article doesn't say is that it is hugely unpopular and unlikely to happen. Just another politician making noise for reelection. :rolleyes:

[N4VGB]

What the article doesn't say is that it is hugely unpopular and unlikely to happen. Just another politician making noise for reelection. :rolleyes:

I didn't think you Brits had these types of problems? :eek:

[K3XR]

No wonder the UK socialist are foaming at the mouth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7415362.stm

[KV1M]

I didn't think you Brits had these types of problems? :eek:

Where ever did you get that idea?
Not from me.
I said the Brits don't have bankruptcy due to illness, comparable taxes (and in some cases lower), better schools, a far more athletic population, higher pay with a comparable cost of living (unless of course you wish to compare, say most of the Southern states where the pay is also substantially lower), lower gun related crime, less chemicals and other additives in their food and a higher overall IQ. Oh, and they are happier, have a higher quality of life and live longer. Can't forget that.;)

Never said anything about smarter politicians.
Although given the laundry list of positive aspects above, they just might have a higher percentage of smarter politicians.

[N4VGB]

Where ever did you get that idea?
Not from me.
I said the Brits don't have bankruptcy due to illness, comparable taxes (and in some cases lower), better schools, a far more athletic population, higher pay with a comparable cost of living (unless of course you wish to compare, say most of the Southern states where the pay is also substantially lower), lower gun related crime, less chemicals and other additives in their food and a higher overall IQ. Oh, and they are happier, have a higher quality of life and live longer. Can't forget that.;)

Never said anything about smarter politicians.
Although given the laundry list of positive aspects above, they just might have a higher percentage of smarter politicians.

YEP, Todd's wearing the bowler hat and carrying a cane now!!! :p:p:p

[KV1M]

YEP, Todd's wearing the bowler hat and carrying a cane now!!! :p:p:p

That's a pretty lame dismissal of the facts.:rolleyes:

[N4VGB]

I said the Brits don't have bankruptcy due to illness, comparable taxes (and in some cases lower),


I guess you missed the post from England about the two elderly sisters who share a home there? As soon as one dies, the other one is homeless because of the extreme tax burden from inheriting her sister's half of their property.

Yeah, real sweet deal for Brits on taxes there Todd! :eek:

I guess our TN way of the elderly being exempted from even paying property taxes wouldn't appeal to you? State picks up the property tax bill yearly for the elderly. :):cool:

[KV1M]

I guess you missed the post from England about the two elderly sisters who share a home there? As soon as one dies, the other one is homeless because of the extreme tax burden from inheriting her sister's half of their property.

Yeah, real sweet deal for Brits on taxes there Todd! :eek:

I guess our TN way of the elderly being exempted from even paying property taxes wouldn't appeal to you? State picks up the property tax bill yearly for the elderly. :):cool:

Really? And that never happens in the US right?:rolleyes:

You clowns have no idea about the difference in taxes, and the people complaining from over here don't either. I on the other hand have the advantage of actually dealing with both and I'll take the UK over the US any day when it comes to taxes. Way better deal hands down.

And honestly, who even thinks about TN let alone considers it a great place?
Nashville is about the only thing you got going on, and even that is only a second rate tourist attraction.:rolleyes:

[N4VGB]

And honestly, who even thinks about TN let alone considers it a great place?
Nashville is about the only thing you got going on, and even that is only a second rate tourist attraction.:rolleyes:


We like it fine. ;) Now if we could just stem the flow of Yankees? :confused:

[KV1M]

We like it fine. ;) Now if we could just stem the flow of Yankees? :confused:

Bet you do, but keep it in perspective OK?
Being the best of the worst is not really a bragging right.

[N4VGB]

Bet you do, but keep it in perspective OK?
Being the best of the worst is not really a bragging right.

You need to be straightening out M0MGH in his thread. The man just doesn't know how well off he is!? :rolleyes:

Several other whining Brits in the Rag Chew section also. They just don't understand their own country. :rolleyes:

[n2ize]

Really? And that never happens in the US right?:rolleyes:

You clowns have no idea about the difference in taxes, and the people complaining from over here don't either. I on the other hand have the advantage of actually dealing with both and I'll take the UK over the US any day when it comes to taxes. Way better deal hands down.

And honestly, who even thinks about TN let alone considers it a great place?
Nashville is about the only thing you got going on, and even that is only a second rate tourist attraction.:rolleyes:

many good things come from Tennesee. American whiskey is by far the best kind of whisky in the world and Tennesee produces some of the best.

Also, Tennesee gave us Chet Atkins, one of the greatest guitar players, right up there with Les Paul, Merle Travis, Charlie Christian, and other greats.

[KV1M]

many good things come from Tennesee. American whiskey is by far the best kind of whisky in the world and Tennesee produces some of the best.

Also, Tennesee gave us Chet Atkins, one of the greatest guitar players, right up there with Les Paul, Merle Travis, Charlie Christian, and other greats.

Quiet you!

[KV1M]

You need to be straightening out M0MGH in his thread. The man just doesn't know how well off he is!? :rolleyes:

Several other whining Brits in the Rag Chew section also. They just don't understand their own country. :rolleyes:

That is probably the situation. He more than likely has NO idea of what it would be like to be in the US and paying US taxes.
Like most Brits he is probably just whinging because that is what he does.
It's a national past time here.

Ask him if he is planning on moving over to the states anytime soon ok?

[N4VGB]

Ask him if he is planning on moving over to the states anytime soon ok?

NAH, he's your fellow Brit, you handle him. ;)

[KV1M]

NAH, he's your fellow Brit, you handle him. ;)

Doesn't matter, he'd tell you no he is not.

[W5GA]

lower gun related crime

And a significantly higher overall violent crime rate. On the order of 20% higher.

Never said anything about smarter politicians.
Although given the laundry list of positive aspects above, they just might have a higher percentage of smarter politicians.

Doubtful...bottom feeders all, regardless of location or persuasion.

[n2ize]

That is probably the situation. He more than likely has NO idea of what it would be like to be in the US and paying US taxes.
Like most Brits he is probably just whinging because that is what he does.
It's a national past time here.

Ask him if he is planning on moving over to the states anytime soon ok?

My French girl friend tells me that people in France are always whining about the government,policies, issues,etc. But she also said that few of them would trade their way of life over there for ours here in the USA. particularly since Bush has been in power over here.

The reason may of them whine about poliitics is that there is a larger degree of political activism over there than here and most French (and mostEuropeans) tend to have a strong awareness and concern for both French/European and world politics.

I have spoken with a fairly large number of foreign students, primarilly Asian and European and I've found many of them to have a far deeper understanding of American history, American politics, and current affairs than most Americans seem to.

[W5GA]

I have spoken with a fairly large number of foreign students, primarilly Asian and European and I've found many of them to have a far deeper understanding of American history, American politics, and current affairs than most Americans seem to.

Have you ever watched the guy (I forget who it is) that does the "Man on the Street" interviews here? The answers will leave you gasping for breath. Dumb blonde jokes in the making, all courtesy of the general populace of the U.S.

[n2ize]

And a significantly higher overall violent crime rate. On the order of 20% higher.

This is generally based upon comparisons between Interpol crimedata and DOJ crime data. However,few, if any, of the website articles making this claim have any links to the raw Interpol data, nor any din depth discussion regarding how the two sets of data have been normalized to produce relatively unbiased comparative values.

This is not to say that Europe doesn;t have a serious violent crime problem. Indeed they do and there are many European towns and cities where I wouldn' reccomend walking in at night. Perhaps the same can be said for many American cities as well, but Europe does indeed have their share of viscious violent crime these daysand I don't doubt thatit exceeds ours in many areas.

However,i am still a bit skeptical about some of the numbers (such as 20% higher) being kicked about online. UntilI can do my own analysis and reproduce similar results I tend to remain skeptical.

[n2ize]

Have you ever watched the guy (I forget who it is) that does the "Man on the Street" interviews here? The answers will leave you gasping for breath. Dumb blonde jokes in the making, all courtesy of the general populace of the U.S.

Yep, I have seen that and similar candid "on the street" interviews in which people are randomly asked simple obvious questions about history,politics, or general subjects like, "who is the vice president of the USA", "who is Fidel castro ?", "whatis the name of the president of Russia", "if one store gives 50% off sale of every $1.00 item and the nextstore gives 50 cents off every $1.00 item then which is cheaper ?

And I've seen people stumble, fumble, gaze, gawk unable to comprehend what the answers may be. I remember two young and pretty dames at a mall asked, "who is/was Boris Yeltsin". Gah-gah eyed and giggling neither of them had a clue.

[GM4BRB]

What the article doesn't say is that it is hugely unpopular and unlikely to happen. Just another politician making noise for reelection. :rolleyes:

That's an interesting take. I got in a protracted, erm, discussion in the street today about Tory plans to 'Rope in' all 'Long term Unemployed folk' upto the age of at least 50+ and force them to attend and work on 1-year long 'Community Service Programmes'. If they refuse they may loose their benefit entitlement. This was David Cameron's Promise to the gormless and once sheeplike, (now more disoriented than mere animals) UK public a few weeks before the recent by-elections.

Interesting that the 67 year old I was 'chatting' with (more like two competing soap box sessions) was fully in support of this above outligned plan adding, Have you read 'The Telegraph today?'
(Of course I haven't you dopey old bat.)

Yet since two years it's no longer unemployed folk who are the primary drain of Welfare coffers but one could argue, if one was malicious enough, that it's all the millions of over 60-'s who now take 'The Pension Credit' worth either £125 or £189 depending on your marital status, the larger being awarded for having a spouse with you. I'm not malicious and fully support people getting this improved state pension plan. Bit of a back hander to keep the old folk on the side of the Government of the day, I expect.

The figure of £189 is nearly 4× the rate of 'Jobseeker's Allowance' that you will get if you are out of but seeking work or are sick and disabled but do not have sufficient National Insurance stamps to get the more substantial Statutory Disability or Invalidity allowances.

Roll on retirement, then you can really get your ass kicked, :eek: I mean, start living.

[n2ize]

That's an interesting take. I got in a protracted, erm, discussion in the street today about Tory plans to 'Rope in' all 'Long term Unemployed folk' upto the age of at least 50+ and force them to attend and work on 1-year long 'Community Service Programmes'. If they refuse they may loose their benefit entitlement. This was David Cameron's Promise to the gormless and once sheeplike, (now more disoriented than mere animals) UK public a few weeks before the recent by-elections.

.

They pretty much did this already here in the states when they implemented the WEP program under Clinton (pushed by Gingrich and the republicrats) requiring all persons receiving welfare to perform community service work, else risk losing their benefits

They didn't extent this to include those receiving unemployment benefits... at least...not yet. But give US lawmakers enough time and all things are quite possible.

[N4VGB]

Roll on retirement, then you can really get your ass kicked, :eek: I mean, start living.


Sounds like a plan written in the U.S. Congress to me? :eek:

Have you checked to make sure the British Parliament is still there? :rolleyes:

[KV1M]

Roll on retirement, then you can really get your ass kicked, :eek: I mean, start living.

Yup, but would you move to the US?

[GM4BRB]

Yup, but would you move to the US?
Not without a fully armed militia to back me up. They don't encourage us going anyways, since the Green Card easy entry work permit was done away with for Brits years and years ago, during Bush 1, I believe, or even Reagan era.

Another thing, I seem to be just about on the pulse of the thinking arm of the UK government again. After my comments about the Pension Credit, & the new "well to do retirement" class, UK.GOV today announced a plan as part of a energy saving project to target lower income households whereby all Pensioners taking the Pension Credit will have their personal data, handed over to the energy supply companies.
This on the very day the latest round of Energy Price hikes by said companies, across the board, are announced.

There is an opt-out clause but by default OAP's will have personal information that summarises personal behaviour, based around their energy requirements and the efficiency of their homes passed on. FLIR cameras have also been used to monitor house efficiency. Of course these can ‘see inside’ a building too.

Interesting Trade-Off. The Government gives with one hand (Big shiny Pension Credits) and with the other, then takes away, by removing normal DATA PROTECTION RIGHTS of UK pensioners in the name of helping them meet the ever spiralling energy bills.

Shoot! I just realised what this is really about, seeing as how I'm a bit slow today! This is designed to set against each other, over Data Protection Act issues, the two sizeable camps of Pensioners (60+) now well to do (post Pension Credit) with the Civil Liberties Lobby. Believe you me, that's exactly how this will pan out. They get a kick out of it, most of them.

Pensioners will shout "Rubbish, you terrorist protecting scroungers on welfare, we don't care a fig about civil liberties, just as long as we get our savings to offset ever spiralling energy costs”. That's it, that's the one boy!

That's exactly how it works. You'll see! Once again, I’m bang to rights! I wish I weren't.

This won't be a self-fulfilling prophecy! This is strategically thought out by a so-called 'think tank'.
I know what the hidden agenda is and the Government could use 'Plausible denial' as their explanation. Most of them won't even be able to grasp the concept, since they are blinded to the real issues and what goes on by their own internal and cross-party feuding to see beyond that smokescreen.

I ain't joking. This is another step at making the worst nightmare possible, feasible. This is in Mugabé's words, for —
'The War on the People.'

Plausible Denial, right down the line.