I LOVE my Amp...

[w1cdx]

I Love my new Ameritron AL-80B-GPC...


QRZ? (thinking to self... I'l give you QRZ) and I'l open the Amp up and let her Rip. LOL How did I go without it for so long.

I was scared of an Amp fer the longest time... but then quite a few friendly Hams over at the Yahoo 756Pro forum taught me how to set up my Station w/Amp and Jim taught me how to tune it.

Now all is fine... and sending 500 Watts out to Alaska last night for my final State (WAS: rtty) was a Full success. I only use it fer the most stubborn QRZ? CALL AGN and NR AGN PLS... calls and for that... It works UFB

regards all,
Steve, W1CDX

[N2RJ]

I worked Alaska with 100 watts on SSB while mobile, from NJ. An amp is not necessary.

But I do like having one. However, I like having a beam antenna a lot better.

[kb9xn]

500 watts ? Really ??
Gee, I read about people working / communicating with Alaska, KL7; with 100 watts or less. Your antenna system must really be on the poor end of the spectrum.

[KC9ECI]

I've got AK worked and confirmed via LoTW, 5W CW.

[kj3n]

I spent the first 14 years of my ham radio hobby without an amp. Still managed to get AK worked on 6m, 10m, 17m, and 20m with 100 watts in that time frame.

What's the big deal? :confused:

[ab8ma]

Just got my 80B delivered about 10 days ago. Just because.

Still in the box.

[ve2nsm]

I spent the first 14 years of my ham radio hobby without an amp. Still managed to get AK worked on 6m, 10m, 17m, and 20m with 100 watts in that time frame.

What's the big deal? :confused:

I still don't have one after 15 years... don't miss it.
99.99% of the time, if I hear them I work them.

[n4bfd]

Sheesh, don't let the people in this thread get you down, I guess they have a easy pipeline into AL7 everyday, and the propagation is always perfect.

AL-80B is a one of the best amps on the market, and it won't break the bank.

[WB2WIK]

I Love my new Ameritron AL-80B-GPC...


::Don't make that too public, there might be laws about amplifier love. There's laws about almost everything these days...:p

[wy6k]

::Don't make that too public, there might be laws about amplifier love. There's laws about almost everything these days...:p

I'm sure that today there are laws against amplifier abuse. It wouldn't be an issue if you didn't admit that you love it. But, now having outed yourself on that issue, you should be very careful about how you use the amp. If you load it up too much and force it to take grid current - it could certainly be interpreted as amplifier abuse. If someone were to turn you in to the Amp Protection Service, it could be taken away from you and placed in a foster home.

I myself offer my house as a foster home for abused amps.

Just something to keep in mind. :-)

[N2RJ]

Sheesh, don't let the people in this thread get you down, I guess they have a easy pipeline into AL7 everyday, and the propagation is always perfect.

Of course not.

BUt having an amp and an inefficient antenna makes you an alligator - all mouth NO ears.

[KM5FL]

99.99% of the time, if I hear them I work them.

I'm not singling you out, my Canadian friend, but that's not a valid argument.. If the ones you don't hear had an amp, you probably could hear them.. And if you had an amp, they could probably hear you... All of you could then work each other.. :cool:

Certain bands all but require an amp. Down here on the Gulf Coast in the summer months, if your signal isn't above an S-9 on 80m & 160m, you're in the noise. I've been a ham for over 12 years and I've had amps (yes, that's plural) the entire time.. My log books (again, that's plural) are FULL of contacts.

Folks ---- Life is just way tooooo short for qrp.. :D :D

KM5FL

[ve2nsm]

I'm not singling you out, my Canadian friend, but that's not a valid argument.. If the ones you don't hear had an amp, you probably could hear them.. And if you had an amp, they could probably hear you... All of you could then work each other.. :cool:

True, but since the percentage of amateur population that runs an amp is very low (yes it is), and assuming this little percentage is part of the 0.01 that I don't hear, it makes it so small (less than 0.001%) that is really unnoticeable ;)

[WB2WIK]

True, but since the percentage of amateur population that runs an amp is very low (yes it is), and assuming this little percentage is part of the 0.01 that I don't hear, it makes it so small (less than 0.001%) that is really unnoticeable ;)

::I disagree about the percentage. Nearly everyone I know uses an amplifier on HF, and unless everyone's lying to me, more than 50% of the stations I contact are running amplifiers on HF (SSB). It's more like 30-40% on CW, and even a smaller percentage on PSK31.

If you can work everyone you hear while running 100W, chances are you're noise limited in what you can hear. I definitely cannot work everyone I hear when I run 100W, and I'm using beams on 20 through 10 and full-sized wire antennas on 30 through 160.

WB2WIK/6

[ve2nsm]

::I disagree about the percentage. Nearly everyone I know uses an amplifier on HF, and unless everyone's lying to me, more than 50% of the stations I contact are running amplifiers on HF (SSB). It's more like 30-40% on CW, and even a smaller percentage on PSK31.

If you can work everyone you hear while running 100W, chances are you're noise limited in what you can hear. I definitely cannot work everyone I hear when I run 100W, and I'm using beams on 20 through 10 and full-sized wire antennas on 30 through 160.

WB2WIK/6

Well, we probably don't live on the same planet, none of the guys I talk to regularly owns an amp, I could say that 10% of the DX I work are mentionning anything about amplifiers. Obviously, US stations account for less than 1% of my QSOs so...

But then again, we have antennas. I noticed that for many people the purpose of an amp is to make up for an antenna deficiency.

There was a poll about this a while ago, who uses an amp.

[kq9j]

I love my amp, too. How about a foursome?? :)

[WB2WIK]

Well, we probably don't live on the same planet, none of the guys I talk to regularly owns an amp, I could say that 10% of the DX I work are mentionning anything about amplifiers. Obviously, US stations account for less than 1% of my QSOs so...


::Who are the DX stations you regularly talk to? Most of the ones I work are using amplifiers. I can surely provide a long list of them, and I work "DX" every day.

However, U.S. stations account for >1% of contacts for most people in the world who operate HF, so you're definitely the exception, there. According to a poll in CQ HAM RADIO (Japan), ~1/3 of all HF QSOs made by JAs are with U.S. stations. If you look at the numbers published by the DXpeditions operating from anywhere, they work more U.S. stations than anything else, no matter where the operation was.

Almost all of the DXpeditions use amplifiers, generously provided by Alpha, or Icom, or ACOM, EMTRON, or whoever (depends on the expedition). Only a couple of DXpeditions ran "barefoot" in the past 3-4 years.

All well published.

So, who are the DX stations you're working?

WB2WIK/6

[KC9ECI]

Folks ---- Life is just way tooooo short for qrp.. :D :D

KM5FL

Only if you plan to die next week.

[KM5FL]

True, but since the percentage of amateur population that runs an amp is very low (yes it is), and assuming this little percentage is part of the 0.01 that I don't hear, it makes it so small (less than 0.001%) that is really unnoticeable ;)

I haven't researched the numbers or conducted a survey (which I'm sure you have), but I'm not sure I agree with those numbers. In my neck of the woods, I find a totally different percentage. I estimate about 40 - 50% of the hams I know have amps.. And in "my circle of friends", it's more like 80 - 90%.. We do a lot of VHF/UHF weak signal work..

In summary, "to amp or not to amp" depends heavily on the application and desired results.


KM5FL

[n4bfd]

And who said w1cdx (http://forums.qrz.com/member.php?u=233757) has a inefficient antenna? Looks like in his profile you can see a hex beam out the window. It's not a stack of phased mono-banders up several wavelengths, but it certainly isn't a G5RV either.

I do get your point though, I just think it is funny how we are our own worst enemies sometimes. Someone posts about getting a new toy and working a new area and we all jump on him for using a amp and not working the new area every hour of the day.

Of course not.

BUt having an amp and an inefficient antenna makes you an alligator - all mouth NO ears.

[KM5FL]

Folks ---- Life is just way tooooo short for qrp.. :D :D

KM5FL
Only if you plan to die next week.

:eek:
You need to quit hanging out with EP.. :D :D :D


KM5FL

[ve2nsm]

::Who are the DX stations you regularly talk to? Most of the ones I work are using amplifiers. I can surely provide a long list of them, and I work "DX" every day.

However, U.S. stations account for >1% of contacts for most people in the world who operate HF, so you're definitely the exception, there. According to a poll in CQ HAM RADIO (Japan), ~1/3 of all HF QSOs made by JAs are with U.S. stations. If you look at the numbers published by the DXpeditions operating from anywhere, they work more U.S. stations than anything else, no matter where the operation was.

Almost all of the DXpeditions use amplifiers, generously provided by Alpha, or Icom, or ACOM, EMTRON, or whoever (depends on the expedition). Only a couple of DXpeditions ran "barefoot" in the past 3-4 years.

All well published.

So, who are the DX stations you're working?

WB2WIK/6

Well, I won't start another useless debate with you, this time I'll pass.

[WB2WIK]

Well, I won't start another useless debate with you, this time I'll pass.

::No need for debate; you're admitting defeat by simply not identifying all the DX you work, all of whom operate barefoot.

If you can't list them, they're vaporware, my friend.

I have zero problems listing everybody I work.

WB2WIK/6

[kj3n]

I definitely cannot work everyone I hear when I run 100W, and I'm using beams on 20 through 10 and full-sized wire antennas on 30 through 160.

I'm with Steve on this one. I'm running almost exclusively wire antennas and there are times when I cannot work everyone I hear, without an amp.

If I hear an S1-S3 signal and the guy mentions that he's running a KW, I'm pretty sure I'm going to need that amp. I'll try it with 100 watts first, but that might not make it.

An amp is a tool. It's nice to have when you need it, but I use it only when it's the right tool for the job. ;)

[ve2nsm]

::No need for debate; you're admitting defeat by simply not identifying all the DX you work, all of whom operate barefoot.

If you can't list them, they're vaporware, my friend.

I have zero problems listing everybody I work.

WB2WIK/6

Go ahead if it makes you feel better about who you are...

[wy6k]

Well, I won't start another useless debate with you, this time I'll pass.

I have to say that my experience is consistent with ML's comments. Almost everyone I speak to is running an amp. Everyone I know personally, except two brand new ones, has an amp.

The comments made about the 80 and 75 meter bands being so noisy that an amp is virtually mandatory are right on. Not only will you have a tough time taking part in a roundtable discussion on 75 meters if you are running barefoot, you will be torturing everyone you expect to listen to you. It is punishing to listen to peanut whistle guys through all that noise. It's no fun struggling through noise like that to hear weak signals just so you anti-amp types can feel virtuous.

Perhaps the 80 meter noise level is lower up in VE2 land? I don't know. But in the SF area, in Colorado, in South Carolina, and on Sint Maarten the noise level on 75 meters is often, if not usually, S9 or above. So you must accept the responsibility to put out more energy than a single lightbulb (barefoot) if you want people to be pleased to speak to you.

As you go up the bands, the issue gets easier. By the time you get to 10 meters, barefoot is great and the noise is low. But on 75 and 40 barefoot is no fun for the receiving station. And this is true almost without regard for the antenna that is in use, unless you have a four square - in which case you may not need an amp to be heard. But by the time you have a four square you will almost certainly also have an amp.

[KI4WCA]

I have to say that my experience is consistent with ML's comments. Almost everyone I speak to is running an amp. Everyone I know personally, except two brand new ones, has an amp.

The comments made about the 80 and 75 meter bands being so noisy that an amp is virtually mandatory are right on. Not only will you have a tough time taking part in a roundtable discussion on 75 meters if you are running barefoot, you will be torturing everyone you expect to listen to you. It is punishing to listen to peanut whistle guys through all that noise. It's no fun struggling through noise like that to hear weak signals just so you anti-amp types can feel virtuous.

Perhaps the 80 meter noise level is lower up in VE2 land? I don't know. But in the SF area, in Colorado, in South Carolina, and on Sint Maarten the noise level on 75 meters is often, if not usually, S9 or above. So you must accept the responsibility to put out more energy than a single lightbulb (barefoot) if you want people to be pleased to speak to you.

As you go up the bands, the issue gets easier. By the time you get to 10 meters, barefoot is great and the noise is low. But on 75 and 40 barefoot is no fun for the receiving station. And this is true almost without regard for the antenna that is in use, unless you have a four square - in which case you may not need an amp to be heard. But by the time you have a four square you will almost certainly also have an amp.
I do not have an amp.I have learned to call only the loudest stations when the noise is up so they do not have to struggle to hear me.For roundtables, they can help plenty.Even then, you still need the band to help.I was talking to a kilowatter the other night.I had him turn off the amp.He fell to 59+15.Which explains why he heard my 100 watts so well!My 718 is useless as far as s-meter accuracy is concerned, but I did HEAR a difference.He was definitely stronger with the amp.But I must emphasize..not a lot stronger.
Conditions were quite poor Saturday night here, so much so I readily admit 1500 watts would have helped.
Sadly, I cannot erect serious gain antennas at this qth for 75.I suspect many have this problem.Also, the houses are quite close together.I estimate 250 to 400 watts max here on 75 before my voice begins to issue forth from every crappy rf prone piece of junk consumer gear my neighbors have!Given space, I would spend every dime on a fabulous antenna...and after that was done I would then consider an amplifier.Truth be told, I love tube gear.And I have pretty much everything I need to build a large amplifier.I like The Eimac tetrodes a lot(from reading "The care and feeding of power Tetrodes" as a boy).And I have a new 4-400a.But if I go to the trouble to build it...I would just have to see how it worked at full output.And the circus with the neighbors would ensue.

[KC2TAU]

On 20 meters though using an amp is silly....


I worked the Ukraine today using 10 watts SSB and a 45' dipole thrown into a tree. I was even given a 59. :)

Life is too short for QRP? Hah,what a laugh.

[w2ajw]

No, no. Life isn't too short for QRP. But contests are.

:D

[wy6k]

I do not have an amp.I have learned to call only the loudest stations when the noise is up so they do not have to struggle to hear me.For roundtables, they can help plenty.Even then, you still need the band to help.I was talking to a kilowatter the other night.I had him turn off the amp.He fell to 59+15.Which explains why he heard my 100 watts so well!My 718 is useless as far as s-meter accuracy is concerned, but I did HEAR a difference.He was definitely stronger with the amp.But I must emphasize..not a lot stronger.
Conditions were quite poor Saturday night here, so much so I readily admit 1500 watts would have helped.
Sadly, I cannot erect serious gain antennas at this qth for 75.I suspect many have this problem.Also, the houses are quite close together.I estimate 250 to 400 watts max here on 75 before my voice begins to issue forth from every crappy rf prone piece of junk consumer gear my neighbors have!Given space, I would spend every dime on a fabulous antenna...and after that was done I would then consider an amplifier.Truth be told, I love tube gear.And I have pretty much everything I need to build a large amplifier.I like The Eimac tetrodes a lot(from reading "The care and feeding of power Tetrodes" as a boy).And I have a new 4-400a.But if I go to the trouble to build it...I would just have to see how it worked at full output.And the circus with the neighbors would ensue.

I think you and I need to do the same thing: move to better locations!!

[KC2TAU]

No, no. Life isn't too short for QRP. But contests are.

:D

I don't contest but I will call DXPeditions or call stations that are working contest style and will give them a shout and I have no trouble working them.

[wb6mmj]

Maybe I don`t understand something here. He had to be taught how to tune his amplifier?
I think something is wrong with that. I could tune a amplifier as a novice back in 1975 even though I wasn`t allowed to use one then.
Are we in such a big hurry to get people licensed that we don`t teach them to read the instructions or at least figure out, using their brain, how to tune one? What is in the tests now?
What road is Ham Radio on?
I`ll give you one guess.

[NL7W]

First off, I'll give an Alaskan perspective...

Working Alaska during this lull between cycles is somewhat of an accomplishment from the East Coast. I live in South-central Alaska, and haven't worked many in the Northeast these last few years. Prop to your part of the world just stinks for me. OTOH, working the West Coast and portions of the Midwest are fairly easy...

Personally, I find running my Alpha 374A amp, for the increased 8 to 10 dB in gain, to be quite useful when working lower-48 stations. The noise level at my semi-rural location, which is RF quiet, allows me to easily hear and discriminate stations down south. For example, my typical 75 meter noise level (Kenwood 850SAT AIP on) is S2; S3/S4 (AIP off) on a full size dipole at 50 ft. My noise levels are much lower on the higher bands. To work lower-48 stations with an inherently higher QRN/QRM levels, I need the amp's extra 8 to 10 dB increase to help overcome the unfortunate realities of HF operations in the "lesser-48" states.

Properly operated, amps are fine.

Life is too short for QRP or much "low-power" HF operation.

73.

[N2RJ]

And who said w1cdx (http://forums.qrz.com/member.php?u=233757) has a inefficient antenna? Looks like in his profile you can see a hex beam out the window. It's not a stack of phased mono-banders up several wavelengths, but it certainly isn't a G5RV either.

I do get your point though, I just think it is funny how we are our own worst enemies sometimes. Someone posts about getting a new toy and working a new area and we all jump on him for using a amp and not working the new area every hour of the day.

Well, honestly, the original post made it seem as though you need an amp to work as far away as Alaska, when in fact you don't.

I regularly run 800 watts with my amp into a 4 element MonstIR, but I also use 100 watts with a tarheel screwdriver and a 6 foot whip. I still work DX with both, and I still work far away places, such as VK/ZL and Alaska.

[N2RJ]

First off, I'll give an Alaskan perspective...

Working Alaska during this lull between cycles is somewhat of an accomplishment from the East Coast. I live in South-central Alaska, and haven't worked many in the Northeast these last few years. Prop to your part of the world just stinks for me. OTOH, working the West Coast and portions of the Midwest are fairly easy...

Personally, I find running my Alpha 374A amp, for the increased 8 to 10 dB in gain, to be quite useful when working lower-48 stations. The noise level at my semi-rural location, which is RF quiet, allows me to easily hear and discriminate stations down south. For example, my typical 75 meter noise level (Kenwood 850SAT AIP on) is S2; S3/S4 (AIP off) on a full size dipole at 50 ft. My noise levels are much lower on the higher bands. To work lower-48 stations with an inherently higher QRN/QRM levels, I need the amp's extra 8 to 10 dB increase to help overcome the unfortunate realities of HF operations in the "lesser-48" states.

Properly operated, amps are fine.

Life is too short for QRP or much "low-power" HF operation.

73.

There's your problem, Steve. "Full size dipole."

I thought my full size doublet was great until I got a beam. Then I realized that the best investment made in my station was a beam antenna, and NOT an amp, because even without the amp on, I can power through noise and rise right over, making it "armchair copy" for the other side.

Where the amp does come in handy is coming out in front in the pileups. When the other guys are running 100 watts, putting in 500w or 800w (I don't have more than that, don't really need it) puts me over the top. As a result, I usually work them on the first call.

But this year the biggest investment in my station will be receive. If you can't hear them, you can't work them.

By the way I regularly hear AL1G in every contest, and KL7LF was S9+ from my car with a 6 foot base loaded (screwdriver) whip. Amp not needed, and I have the card and LoTW confirmations to to prove it. One thing in common with them is that they have beam antennas, not a piece of wire.

In other words, I don't think I've worked any AK stations who are just running a piece of wire. I regularly work those with beams.

[wy6k]

... the best investment made in my station was a beam antenna, and NOT an amp ...

No argument there.

But there seems to be this recurring anti-amp sentiment. Sort of like "using an amp is unfair, causes global warming, is a sin, harms others stations, they are only for the wealthy, etc." It's these sentiments that I would like to fight.

Barefoot is a lightbulb. Full legal power is a hairdryer. So what? There's nothing wrong with having and using an amp if you need or want it. They are affordable and they make operating more pleasant sometimes, and sometimes a communication link is only possible when running an amp.

Yes barefoot and qrp guys can make contacts with just about any place on the planet when conditions are just right.

But if you want to increase the times, the bands, the number of qsos, the locations contacted, and the reliability of communication - then you need decent antennas and amplifiers. Finding the right tradeoff between all these factors is part of the fun and challenge of Ham Radio.

Sometimes working one guy in one place with 1 watt is fun. Sometimes working 1800 guys in one weekend is fun. Sometimes building a radio is fun.

One of the unique aspects of ham radio is the incredibly broad range of activities that are available. The enjoyment of one does not negate any of the others.

Quit feeling guilty about using an amp. If you don't want one, don't get one. But quit dissing or being jealous of those that do.

[NL7W]

There's your problem, Steve. "Full size dipole."

I thought my full size doublet was great until I got a beam. Then I realized that the best investment made in my station was a beam antenna, and NOT an amp, because even without the amp on, I can power through noise and rise right over, making it "armchair copy" for the other side.

Where the amp does come in handy is coming out in front in the pileups. When the other guys are running 100 watts, putting in 500w or 800w (I don't have more than that, don't really need it) puts me over the top. As a result, I usually work them on the first call.

But this year the biggest investment in my station will be receive. If you can't hear them, you can't work them.

By the way I regularly hear AL1G in every contest, and KL7LF was S9+ from my car with a 6 foot base loaded (screwdriver) whip. Amp not needed, and I have the card and LoTW confirmations to to prove it. One thing in common with them is that they have beam antennas, not a piece of wire.

In other words, I don't think I've worked any AK stations who are just running a piece of wire. I regularly work those with beams.


You're preachin' to the choir...

I've been a ham for many years now, and have run yagis, stacked yagis, quads loops, verticals, etc. on HF. I have contested, and won a few, in the past.

Heck, I do RF and telecom for a living... which has included 10 KW HF levels in years gone by... for the feds, the commercial telecom sector, and major manufacturers.

Again, you're preachin' to the choir.

Toodles.

[NL7W]

No argument there.

But there seems to be this recurring anti-amp sentiment. Sort of like "using an amp is unfair, causes global warming, is a sin, harms others stations, they are only for the wealthy, etc." It's these sentiments that I would like to fight.

Barefoot is a lightbulb. Full legal power is a hairdryer. So what? There's nothing wrong with having and using an amp if you need or want it. They are affordable and they make operating more pleasant sometimes, and sometimes a communication link is only possible when running an amp.

Yes barefoot and qrp guys can make contacts with just about any place on the planet when conditions are just right.

But if you want to increase the times, the bands, the number of qsos, the locations contacted, and the reliability of communication - then you need decent antennas and amplifiers. Finding the right tradeoff between all these factors is part of the fun and challenge of Ham Radio.

Sometimes working one guy in one place with 1 watt is fun. Sometimes working 1800 guys in one weekend is fun. Sometimes building a radio is fun.

One of the unique aspects of ham radio is the incredibly broad range of activities that are available. The enjoyment of one does not negate any of the others.

Quit feeling guilty about using an amp. If you don't want one, don't get one. But quit dissing or being jealous of those that do.

Well put, well said. There's lots to enjoy.

[kb3laz]

I just love these debates.:D
Amp vs antenna or both.
Unfortunately most of us cant afford an antenna system that runs $4000+.:(
A small amp at around 800$ is more reasonable.
Although i dont understand why people dont think a dipole is a real antenna.
Iv made plenty of long distance contacts on 100w with mine.
Would I like a stepperIR, well of course but $4,295.00 is a little to high for my budget. Lets see thats only one month and one and a half weeks of my pay.
Add my car payment, cell bill and tuition costs Im at around negative $10,000 a year. And I highly doubt my parents will spend that kind of money on an antenna. Heck I got the money for my amp for Christmas and that was like squeezing water from a rock.

[w7lpn]

They just like peeing on your parade. Bunch O' crabby old, done everything twice, couldn't be tickled for you, even with a feather, mine's better than yours.....yadda yadda yadda! I'm happy you're happy with your gear. Plain & simple. Enjoy it. :D

[K0HWY]

Amps are ok and there are cetainly times when they can be beneficial. As one op early in the thread pointed out, they're great for busting through the summertime QRN on the low bands. But, in my opinion, the importance of having an amplifier in general is over-rated. I like the challenge of working DX with an out of the box rig and a homemade antenna. It's true, lots of tstaions I work are running amps. They also have relatively expensive antenna systems as well. I get some satisfaction in the fact that I have probably communicated with stations just as far away for a fraction of the cost. :D

[ve6wtf]

500 watts ? Really ??
Gee, I read about people working / communicating with Alaska, KL7; with 100 watts or less. Your antenna system must really be on the poor end of the spectrum.

*looks in the log fer a referance*

"oh here it is!!"

VK4FO,VK4CRO Gord and Ron

06/4/07 20m SSB QRP 1 watt on 14.140 time: 0230 local

*laughs outloud*

[W0UZR]

What the Hay is it with this bunch of crap?

Are we allowed 1500 watts or not!!? When a person becomes a ham, then he/she should be somewhat educated and informed about some common sense as how to go about operating. I wouldn't have bothered to get an amp at all, but I was constantly hearing people and trying to join in and they couldn't hear me. I was hearing people all over left and right, they can't hear me. So that's when you get an amp.

AND IT'S NOT THAT I DON'T HAVE A GOOD ANTENNA! (not trying to shout, just want this to be seen good so certain people won't hurry and put up a post to tell me I have a no good antenna.)

The reason I don't get a signal out is because I live up in N E Minnesota. Anyone that has been up here knows that it's nothing but woods up here. I can take you to areas, leave you there and they will never find you. So the signal gets kinda soaked up with the trees here. Now my amp:

Here is what you do. If you constantly can hear people and they don't hear you, yes try to get up a better antenna. Now you might be in a situation like me that you can't get a great antenna up. I'm restricted to the woods, and the highest I can get one up is around 30 feet. That's about how high my antenna is now. Still can hear people better than they can hear me. So This is when you know you need an amplifier......

And when I run mine, I use 350 watts. I used to run 1000 watts, and on experimenting with people on the air I would keep turning down the power, and except for the audio dropping some, the signal stayed the same pretty much down to 200 watts. I go to 100 watts, then I could hear them, and he couldn't hear me again. So I just keep my amp at 300 watts, a lot of times lower or off, depending. If people always hears you at 100 watts, then fine. But is that the way it is on 80 meters and 160? If you want to work those bands, you need a good antenna and an amp, usually. Now I'm talking about the evenings. In the mornings, 100 watts around your state nets and some neighboring states will work just fine.

[wm3o]

i have an amp, but i don't use it all the time - qrp is fun and so is 100w. if condx are poor or there is a big pileup, i'll flip the switch and light up the filaments. i love the smell of burning dust on the tubes - it's the smell of radio my solid state 756PROII lacks.

my amp is impish - it's a Collins 30L-1 with 4 811A's (i do have 4 572's i could use...) i get between 400 and 700 watts depending on the band. i'm not the loudest signal on the band, but i have busted my share of pileups with it.

moving from wires for the high bands to a 3 element tri-bander made a heck of an improvement on hearing signals, the amp let the stations i heard hear me.

i was told to spend my money on antennas, than radios, than amps. seems to make sense. you can't work them if you can't hear them.

-Steve, WM3O

[WB2WIK]

Go ahead if it makes you feel better about who you are...

::Nope, doesn't make me feel better at all. What it makes me feel is satisfied that I've trapped you in your own B.S. If you cannot provide the long list of DX stations who aren't running amplifiers as you claimed in a previous post, there isn't any long list and it's all baloney, as we say here in the States.

I sorted my log for the past couple weeks last night, deleting all U.S. and Canadian stations and just leaving DX. In looking through the "comments" I could see who's running an amplifier and who isn't, according to them. Most are, including your neighbor HI3AB who has a great signal here in CA.

Even Yan, BD1NNI in Beijing (very active, great signal also) runs an amp all the time. She told me "It's so you can hear me."

Some contacts:

T32YA 17m
HP3AK 20m
XE3/K9LC 20m
KH2JU 20m
V73RY 20m
NH6JC 20m
JA7NVF 20m
KH7X 20m
WH6R 20m
JA3YBK 20m
KH7B 20m
KH6LC 20m
UA0IT 20m
JH6INQ 20m
ZF2AH 17m
RW0CD 20m
BD1NNI 20m
HK4CZE 17m
AL7TC 20m
KH6IB 20m
UP0ZT 20m
TO6T 17m
HI3AB 17m
PJ5NA 17m
PR7HT 20m
XE83IARU 20m
PY2WDX 20m
KH7XS 20m
KH6MB 20m
YV5MSG 20m
PR7AP 20m
ZL1ALZ 20m
XE1EPA 17m
KJ6Y/VY2 20m
ZL1BD 20m
VK2HOT 20m
K6MIO/KH6 6m

This is from a couple of weeks of casual operating. 34 of 38 stations reported using an amplifier.

WB2WIK/6

[ve2nsm]

::Nope, doesn't make me feel better at all. What it makes me feel is satisfied that I've trapped you in your own B.S. If you cannot provide the long list of DX stations who aren't running amplifiers as you claimed in a previous post, there isn't any long list and it's all baloney, as we say here in the States.

I sorted my log for the past couple weeks last night, deleting all U.S. and Canadian stations and just leaving DX. In looking through the "comments" I could see who's running an amplifier and who isn't, according to them. Most are, including your neighbor HI3AB who has a great signal here in CA.

Even Yan, BD1NNI in Beijing (very active, great signal also) runs an amp all the time. She told me "It's so you can hear me."

Some contacts:

T32YA 17m
HP3AK 20m
XE3/K9LC 20m
KH2JU 20m
V73RY 20m
NH6JC 20m
JA7NVF 20m
KH7X 20m
WH6R 20m
JA3YBK 20m
KH7B 20m
KH6LC 20m
UA0IT 20m
JH6INQ 20m
ZF2AH 17m
RW0CD 20m
BD1NNI 20m
HK4CZE 17m
AL7TC 20m
KH6IB 20m
UP0ZT 20m
TO6T 17m
HI3AB 17m
PJ5NA 17m
PR7HT 20m
XE83IARU 20m
PY2WDX 20m
KH7XS 20m
KH6MB 20m
YV5MSG 20m
PR7AP 20m
ZL1ALZ 20m
XE1EPA 17m
KJ6Y/VY2 20m
ZL1BD 20m
VK2HOT 20m
K6MIO/KH6 6m

This is from a couple of weeks of casual operating. 34 of 38 stations reported using an amplifier.

WB2WIK/6

*Yawn*

Oh, I'm sorry: clap clap clap clap!

There, you happy?

[WB2WIK]

On 20 meters though using an amp is silly....


I worked the Ukraine today using 10 watts SSB and a 45' dipole thrown into a tree. I was even given a 59. :)

Life is too short for QRP? Hah,what a laugh.

::When you have great propagation and the "other" station is well equipped, this kind of thing happens hundreds of times a day. It's not that low power can't work DX, that's ridiculous. It's just that you have to wait for better propagation, or the chance to work a very well equipped station on the other end. Many Ukraine stations are very big, with huge beams on tall towers and most are running "power."

This statement is a bit like saying, "Why would I need an '08 Lexus when my 1952 bug will get me there just fine?" Well, the '52 bug will get you there, but not as quietly, or in as much comfort, or as smoothly, and probably not as reliably, and you may end up getting passed a lot on the CA freeways by guys driving 90 mph, which is a very common freeway speed here. But, you'll eventually get there.

If not for such factors, nobody would ever buy a new car, or a more powerful one.

WB2WIK/6

[WB2WIK]

*Yawn*

Oh, I'm sorry: clap clap clap clap!

There, you happy?


::Of course I am. I have just publicly disproven your claim and you have no method of refute.

WB2WIK/6

[ve2nsm]

::Of course I am. I have just publicly disproven your claim and you have no method of refute.

WB2WIK/6

I'm sorry, what claim was that? I didn't quite follow.

[N2RJ]

I still contend that a great antenna will provide more benefit than an amp.

For years 9Z4BM ran only 100w. His signal was better than a lot of those with amps.

He has a Cushcraft X7 though.

[k9xr]

They just like peeing on your parade. Bunch O' crabby old, done everything twice, couldn't be tickled for you, even with a feather, mine's better than yours.....yadda yadda yadda! I'm happy you're happy with your gear. Plain & simple. Enjoy it. :D

Isn't it amazing how only a few overinflated egos can change the whole complexion of a thread. These guys all have worked the entire DXCC list with 100 milliwatts, yet they all have amplifiers "JUST IN CASE".

If you bought your amp to increase your enjoyment in ham rado, than do just that as you see fit. Some of these "BIG GUNS" don't realize that some of the "LITTLE PISTOLS" are using as much antenna as their particular situations allow

Carry on and have fun. That's one of the main reaons we're still in this game.

[N2RJ]

Isn't it amazing how only a few overinflated egos can change the whole complexion of a thread. These guys all have worked the entire DXCC list with 100 milliwatts, yet they all have amplifiers "JUST IN CASE".

If you bought your amp to increase your enjoyment in ham rado, than do just that as you see fit. Some of these "BIG GUNS" don't realize that some of the "LITTLE PISTOLS" are using as much antenna as their particular situations allow

Carry on and have fun. That's one of the main reaons we're still in this game.

Well don't say we didn't warn you. See you in the pileups. :)

http://www.qrz.com/hampix/j/r/n2rj.1209055216.jpg

[WB2WIK]

I'm sorry, what claim was that? I didn't quite follow.

::This one:

From VE2NSM: "Well, we probably don't live on the same planet, none of the guys I talk to regularly owns an amp, I could say that 10% of the DX I work are mentionning anything about amplifiers. Obviously, US stations account for less than 1% of my QSOs so..."

I simply asked you "who are these DX stations you're working who aren't running amplifiers? Let's see a list of who they are?" and you haven't replied to that. My contention is you're just making this stuff up.

WB2WIK/6

[nz3m]

I still contend that a great antenna will provide more benefit than an amp.

For years 9Z4BM ran only 100w. His signal was better than a lot of those with amps.

He has a Cushcraft X7 though.

Do you know Leon?

What does he do with all the QSL money he gets?

:cool:

[N2RJ]

Do you know Leon?

Of course I know him. Very well in fact.

What does he do with all the QSL money he gets?

:cool:

Send out QSL cards? :confused:

If you've sent a card to anyone in Trinidad and Tobago lately, be prepared to wait a long time, as TTPost is on strike. The postal service there has NEVER been reliable though. It did get better when they privatized it, but lately it has gotten a lot worse, and now they are on strike.

[nz3m]

Of course I know him. Very well in fact.



Send out QSL cards? :confused:



No, it's well known that MANY have sent several cards to him for years and get nothing, especially 6m ops.

I tried once but looks like there are new 6m ops active in 9Y this year, so hopefully I'll hear one of those.

Dave

[ve2nsm]

::This one:

From VE2NSM: "Well, we probably don't live on the same planet, none of the guys I talk to regularly owns an amp, I could say that 10% of the DX I work are mentionning anything about amplifiers. Obviously, US stations account for less than 1% of my QSOs so..."

I simply asked you "who are these DX stations you're working who aren't running amplifiers? Let's see a list of who they are?" and you haven't replied to that. My contention is you're just making this stuff up.

WB2WIK/6

Ok, just because I'm not keeping a log digitally and I don't flaunt it around like you do means I'm making stuff up.
You are basically telling me that you know more than me who I work and who I don't, and what I'm doing with my station right?

I am so amused by your juvenile logic.

Tell me, do you have a deficiency in other aspects of your life for having this need of displaying your logbook around? I mean, every discussion with you ends up there: "my log book is bigger than yours"

Funny :)

[WB2WIK]

Ok, just because I'm not keeping a log digitally and I don't flaunt it around like you do means I'm making stuff up.
You are basically telling me that you know more than me who I work and who I don't, and what I'm doing with my station right?

I am so amused by your juvenile logic.

Tell me, do you have a deficiency in other aspects of your life for having this need of displaying your logbook around? I mean, every discussion with you ends up there: "my log book is bigger than yours"

Funny :)

::I believe it is you who are juvenile, simply because you make claims you can't substantiate, and I've seen you do it before.

I don't need to keep my logs digitally, and in fact, other than for contesting, I don't. I keep a written, paper log. I can scan that and do what I wish, and sort it a variety of ways using Excel as the sorting tool.

I'm certainly not trying to impress anybody, and nobody would be impressed by a bunch of log contacts anyway. The point is, I contend that a large percentage of HF operators, including DX, use amplifiers, while you contend they don't. I provided a list of recent DX contacts almost all of whom are using amplifiers, and asked if you could provide a list of yours who "aren't."

You never provided same, so I now contend you cannot support your position.

Simple as that.

WB2WIK/6

[ve2nsm]

::I believe it is you who are juvenile, simply because you make claims you can't substantiate, and I've seen you do it before.

I don't need to keep my logs digitally, and in fact, other than for contesting, I don't. I keep a written, paper log. I can scan that and do what I wish, and sort it a variety of ways using Excel as the sorting tool.

I'm certainly not trying to impress anybody, and nobody would be impressed by a bunch of log contacts anyway. The point is, I contend that a large percentage of HF operators, including DX, use amplifiers, while you contend they don't. I provided a list of recent DX contacts almost all of whom are using amplifiers, and asked if you could provide a list of yours who "aren't."

You never provided same, so I now contend you cannot support your position.

Simple as that.

WB2WIK/6

Well, I "contend" (you seem to like that word) that I'm not having the same contacts you do and I'm not knowing the same persons you know.
Most, like 99% of my QSOs are in french and spanish, very few is within the US.
I'm sorry I can not prove this to you right now so feel free to say it's not true.
Either way, I couldn't care less about what you think about me, really.

[N2RJ]

No, it's well known that MANY have sent several cards to him for years and get nothing, especially 6m ops.

I tried once but looks like there are new 6m ops active in 9Y this year, so hopefully I'll hear one of those.

Dave

Well, I can't speak for him. Don't know exactly what he does regarding QSLing.

I think his email address in QRZ.com is good though, so if you want to ask him, by all means feel free.

I know he did work 100 entities on 6m, and wanted to apply for 6m DXCC. Never heard about it after that though.

[N2RJ]

They just like peeing on your parade. Bunch O' crabby old, done everything twice, couldn't be tickled for you, even with a feather, mine's better than yours.....yadda yadda yadda! I'm happy you're happy with your gear. Plain & simple. Enjoy it. :D

Aren't you the hypocrite. Weren't you the one telling me about talking into radios in 'Nam before I was born? And you have the gall to pull the OF card now?

[AC0FP]

::I disagree about the percentage. Nearly everyone I know uses an amplifier on HF, and unless everyone's lying to me, more than 50% of the stations I contact are running amplifiers on HF (SSB). It's more like 30-40% on CW, and even a smaller percentage on PSK31.

If you can work everyone you hear while running 100W, chances are you're noise limited in what you can hear. I definitely cannot work everyone I hear when I run 100W, and I'm using beams on 20 through 10 and full-sized wire antennas on 30 through 160.

WB2WIK/6

This is a good point. Experience says I can only work about half of those I hear and yes I'm running 100 watts.

I've heard Steve on 20 meters, he had a great signal and was talking to another station, with and equally great signal, about their amplifiers.

73,

Frank:)

[W0UZR]

::I believe it is you who are juvenile, simply because you make claims you can't substantiate, and I've seen you do it before.

I don't need to keep my logs digitally, and in fact, other than for contesting, I don't. I keep a written, paper log. I can scan that and do what I wish, and sort it a variety of ways using Excel as the sorting tool.

I'm certainly not trying to impress anybody, and nobody would be impressed by a bunch of log contacts anyway. The point is, I contend that a large percentage of HF operators, including DX, use amplifiers, while you contend they don't. I provided a list of recent DX contacts almost all of whom are using amplifiers, and asked if you could provide a list of yours who "aren't."

You never provided same, so I now contend you cannot support your position.

Simple as that.

WB2WIK/6
Well, I "contend" (you seem to like that word) that I'm not having the same contacts you do and I'm not knowing the same persons you know.
Most, like 99% of my QSOs are in french and spanish, very few is within the US.
I'm sorry I can not prove this to you right now so feel free to say it's not true.
Either way, I couldn't care less about what you think about me, really.

What the L !!

We can even have a spat on a "I love my Amp" thread??

I wish you 2 were here cause I'd like to clunk your heads together

[ab8ro]

What the L !!

We can even have a spat on a "I love my Amp" thread??

I wish you 2 were here cause I'd like to clunk your heads together

My mother used to say "I'll bang your bloody heads together", the threat usually did the trick.

Gotta love the ZED!

[kc2puf]

Here's some meat to get you all snarling for my entertainment. Yes you can work 5 watts. Good for you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You can also not be heard by most of the world. Nothing wrong with more if you wish. I personally think 500-1500 depending on band conditions and storms and bci is an option most people would enjoy. Remember, many different viewpoints are all valid and that's what makes this a fun hobby. And yes antennas are where the rubber hits the road. Never get lazy on these.
BTW al 1200 and 811h as backup sit in my shack.
kc2puf:)

[wy6k]

I don't get the point of trying not to use an amp. Yes the regs say minimum necessary. However, that was written at a time when the bands were crowded, selectivity was in short supply, and transmitters were a bit wide. That doesn't apply now. There are fewer hams, many fewer on HF, so the bands are sparsely populated, everybody has great selectivity, and transmitters are clean (when adjusted properly).

Except in rare circumstances, I fail to see how anyone is bothered by someone else running an amp. So what the heck is the beef here? If you don't want an amp, so be it. But why do you care if anyone else does?

[NL7W]

I don't get the point of trying not to use an amp. Yes the regs say minimum necessary. However, that was written at a time when the bands were crowded, selectivity was in short supply, and transmitters were a bit wide. That doesn't apply now. There are fewer hams, many fewer on HF, so the bands are sparsely populated, everybody has great selectivity, and transmitters are clean (when adjusted properly).

Except in rare circumstances, I fail to see how anyone is bothered by someone else running an amp. So what the heck is the beef here? If you don't want an amp, so be it. But why do you care if anyone else does?

Today's transmitters are clean?

I suggest you review current SSB transmitters' IM3 products as compared to 25 to 40 years ago. Most of today's rigs IM3 products are 10 dB or less (sometimes much less) down than earlier designed transmitters. Some of today's rigs show miserable IM3 levels in the negative mid-twenties. These levels are plainly unacceptable. I would dare to say amplifiers exacerbate the poorly designed source transmitters' signals -- especially when amplifiers are in the hands of "novice" HF operators.

73.

[ab8ro]

Today's transmitters are clean?

I suggest you review current SSB transmitters' IM3 products as compared to 25 to 40 years ago. Most of today's rigs IM3 products are 10 dB or less (sometimes much less) down than earlier designed transmitters. Some of today's rigs show miserable IM3 levels in the negative mid-twenties. These levels are plainly unacceptable. I would dare to say amplifiers exacerbate the poorly designed source transmitters' signals -- especially when amplifiers are in the hands of "novice" HF operators.

73.

There's a very very long thread about this from several years ago. Basically, the nay-saying of current rigs is a bit overstated. Equally overstated is how great rigs of yesteryear were. Here's a snippet from the thread which you can find here (http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-100522.html)


Feel free to download the KWM-2A manual from

http://www.collinsradio.org/html/manuals.html

Take a look at section five which is the specifications. It states that the 3rd Order spec is 30dB below OUTPUT LEVEL. Where they mean single tone, they specify it, hence. The FT-817, as well as MANY OTHER modern transmitters have a better spec than the KWM-2A.

Here are some modern radios that simply spank the KWM-2A with figures at LEAST 5dB better. These are the ARRL test figures, not the reported figures.

Icom
703+ 35dB
IC-725 35dB
IC-729 39dB
IC-765 40dB

TenTec
Omni VI 39dB

Yaeseu
FT-900AT 35dB
FT-990 38dB
FT-1000D 36dB

The radios that are below 25dB are few and far between. The patcomm radios are among the worst offenders only slightly above the Ranger RCI radios which have a 21dB figure.

There are MANY radios in the same league as the KWM-2A that have at least a 30dB 3rd Order IMD figure. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority are within 2dB of the KWM-2A figure if they don't already meet or exceed it.

The FT-897 is a good choice to discuss. It's current, it's popular, it is not a QRP radio, but it has a pretty low figure of only 23dB.


In case you read through the thread. The ARRL did eventually respond to my questions. They danced around any hard answer but stated that they felt that it was very unlikely that the FCC would consider the use of an FT-897 illegal under normal operation.

At any rate, some old rigs are much better than some new rigs. Most new rigs aren't much worse than the best old rigs. Most new rigs are as good as many old rigs and some new rigs are much better than some old rigs.

I'd suggest reading the specs for marine radios before slamming new ham radios too much. I think a salient point from that thread is that amateurs cannot be expected to hold a higher standard than commercial services.

I realize that it's trendy to complain about the new and praise the old, but really, it's not as bad as all that.

[wy6k]

Today's transmitters are clean?

I suggest you review current SSB transmitters' IM3 products as compared to 25 to 40 years ago. Most of today's rigs IM3 products are 10 dB or less (sometimes much less) down than earlier designed transmitters. Some of today's rigs show miserable IM3 levels in the negative mid-twenties. These levels are plainly unacceptable. I would dare to say amplifiers exacerbate the poorly designed source transmitters' signals -- especially when amplifiers are in the hands of "novice" HF operators.

73.

Some of the older commerical rigs may be somewhat better in that one respect - I'll take your word for it. But many, if not most, transmitters were homebrew prior to the 70's and many were very bad - especially with respect to harmonics. So more power was a bad deal because your harmonics could be plenty strong enough to cause problems on other bands. I remember hearing dx try to work some guys on their harmonics!

Plus, I'm not aware of serious IM3 problems caused by today's transmitters. Even in the midst of the most arduous contests, the problems I hear are caused by the receiver. I did not find any transmitted IM3 problems in the last two DX contests using the Flex 5000 - yet the 756PRO had lots of trouble on the same signals. I could learn to hate my 756PRO in contests, if I really cared anymore. But I just get on now to pass out a few qsos and have a little fun. When using the PRO, I just tune on when I find myself in a messy spot.

So I stand by my earlier comments.

[WB2WIK]

TX performance is unfortunately very dependant upon its operator.

Now that 10m is opening up almost every day (sporadic-E season), I hear the most g-dawful signals imaginable on ten. Horrific.

Last night I called a brief CQ on 28.400 and received several replies. The band was open, but not well, and nobody was strong. One KI4 station in Florida replied to me, "The California station, do you hear my Florida station -- come on back?"

Ugh.:(

He was only S3 or S4, not strong at all. But his signal was so wide it occupied a swath on my "spectrum scope" wider than most signals that are 40/S9...very obvious, very wide, very badly splattering. I could hear background noises modulating his signal, making me think he probably had "AKTR" (all knobs to right) with his mike gain cranked fully up.

I'll bet anything he was using a perfectly fine rig, just not using it well.

I did not wish a contact with this fellow, but did respond, "I hear a KI4 station in Florida who is so distorted I really can't understand you. If you can try again with improved clarity, we can make a contact...CQ, CQ, CQ..." and I called CQ again, to raise someone else.

Thankfully, someone else did reply and I didn't have to listen to the terrible sounding Floridian.

I hear more improperly operated gear, and just plain bad operating, on ten meters than on all the other bands combined.

WB2WIK/6

[wg7x]

Steve, you know that these guys are just using their 11 crap up on ten.

You're just being nice about it. I was listening on 28.400 just yesterday to a couple of idiots in Southern California.

First Idiot: Ya here that other station in there?

Second Idiot: Ya, but he's too weak, ignore him, he's just a mudduck!

Then they went on to discuss the merit of idiot number two's leenyar and how it would swing to 250 on AM and over 400 on SSB. Now, I admit I heard a friend up a few kHz and tuned away before I heard a call sign, but I really don't think either of the idiots were licensed.

This stuff goes on every day on ten meters. Whenever the band shows a little propagation, we'll be hearing all the idiots out there with their CB crap. Wide signals are just the beginning.

BTW, I did hear you calling, but it sounded like you had the beam east.

73 Gary

[WB2WIK]

Steve, you know that these guys are just using their 11 crap up on ten.

You're just being nice about it. I was listening on 28.400 just yesterday to a couple of idiots in Southern California.

First Idiot: Ya here that other station in there?

Second Idiot: Ya, but he's too weak, ignore him, he's just a mudduck!

Then they went on to discuss the merit of idiot number two's leenyar and how it would swing to 250 on AM and over 400 on SSB. Now, I admit I heard a friend up a few kHz and tuned away before I heard a call sign, but I really don't think either of the idiots were licensed.

This stuff goes on every day on ten meters. Whenever the band shows a little propagation, we'll be hearing all the idiots out there with their CB crap. Wide signals are just the beginning.

BTW, I did hear you calling, but it sounded like you had the beam east.

73 Gary

::Yep, you're right: I did. I have an alternate 10m beam I can point in a different direction from the first one, but it wasn't aimed up north, either.

Catch you next time!

The idiots in California are different from the idiots other places: They are highly taxed idiots.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6