Is the frequency in use?

[N2RJ]

Please, if you ask this question, LISTEN!!!

I hear many during regular time (not contest even!) just asking "is the frequency in use?" then 1/2 second later just firing up a CQ. Then when someone tells them the freq is in use, they get all riled up, "but I asked if the frequency was in use, no one answered!!!" Yea, maybe if you gave the person time to answer you!

[W7WV]

I do, and do it twice giving receiving stations time to respond.
But I know that not all do this.
But as we all know there are a lot worse things done daily on the airwaves.

[KC9ECI]

How about when they ask, you answer, you KNOW they heard you, and then fire up anyway and pretend they didn't hear you just to drive you off.

[KB3QLK]

I do, and do it twice giving receiving stations time to respond.
But I know that not all do this.
But as we all know there are a lot worse things done daily on the airwaves.
I agree and also do it this way.
I got a wake up call on my first week as a general when the station using didnt hear me on my first call and got a friendly reminder after I started a CQ . I find it good too listen before even asking .

[k3wrv]

How about when they ask, you answer, you KNOW they heard you, and then fire up anyway and pretend they didn't hear you just to drive you off.

I've noticed tjhe same thing. That's when I turn on the AMP, and at that point they acknowledge me and give me 40 over 9 reports. Some of the "guest Ops" at W1AW and special event stations are very good at this technique for some reason. Unfortunately, this kind of Op doesn't much care if it's in use unless THEY get QRM! Then they move off.

But then there are the folk who don't ask - they just cut loose with the CQ machine. I generally respond "Yes the frequency IS in use!, thank you for asking".

[KU0DM]

I always ask "Is this frequency in use? this is KU0DM" wait for 30 seconds, and ask a second time.

Never had any trouble with accidental QRMing except when I was running a few stations and the propagation changed, turned out there was a guy just a bit above me, neither of us had heard each other until propagation changed. I just QSYed, IMO life's to short to argue over a frequency.

[W4DFW]

I heard something tonight I don't think I have every actually heard before, but I've known many to do it.

A fellow started calling CQ. I happened to have had the rig on the frequency for some time, and he never asked if the frequency was in use. Another QSO was going on, but he couldn't hear the station talking.

After calling CQ, one of the fellows in the QSO said, "The frequency *IS* in use, OM!"

The guy responded, quite seriously, "Well, I didn't HEAR anything and I listened before I started calling CQ!"

I guess this guy has never heard of skip! :D

[AC0FP]

I always ask "Is this frequency in use? this is KU0DM" wait for 30 seconds, and ask a second time.

Never had any trouble with accidental QRMing except when I was running a few stations and the propagation changed, turned out there was a guy just a bit above me, neither of us had heard each other until propagation changed. I just QSYed, IMO life's to short to argue over a frequency.

I have posted this question on this forum before. I was on 17 meters and asked if the frequency was in use? I then called CQ and a station came back who was 59 +20 who said the frequency was in use. I listened to this frequency (18.115) for 20 minutes and never heard anyone.

Frank

PS: The last time I posted this I got a reply like "why didn't you QSY". The reason was the band was dead and I was just calling CQ. I was curious as to whether the frequency was really in use.

[N2RJ]

I heard something tonight I don't think I have every actually heard before, but I've known many to do it.

A fellow started calling CQ. I happened to have had the rig on the frequency for some time, and he never asked if the frequency was in use. Another QSO was going on, but he couldn't hear the station talking.

After calling CQ, one of the fellows in the QSO said, "The frequency *IS* in use, OM!"

The guy responded, quite seriously, "Well, I didn't HEAR anything and I listened before I started calling CQ!"

I guess this guy has never heard of skip! :D

http://sq8aqd.net/3y0e/audio/3Y0E_sample6.mp3

Some people (KC5KVF) just don't get it...

[k4kyv]

Asking "is the frequency in use" is primarily an operating procedure established for the higher frequency bands like 20m, where there is expected to be a skip zone, causing a station a few hundred miles way to be completely inaudible.

On the lower frequencies, particularly 75m, this is an open invitation for some member of a dead-air group to claim that the frequency is indeed in use, but their definition of "in use" does not necessarily means that someone is actually engaged in a two-way contact, but simply monitoring their self-assigned frequency and challenging anyone else who dares to transmit on or near it.

A better procedure for the lower frequency bands is to carefully monitor the intended frequency for several minutes for any evidence of activity. If nothing is heard, run a short "test" transmission. If there is no response, then assume the frequency is not in use and make your call.

Of course, band conditions should be taken into consideration, since even 75m may have a skip zone during the hours of darkness, particularly when the sunspot cycle is near the bottom, as it is now.

I do not extend recognition to dead-air groups.

[ve2nsm]

I have posted this question on this forum before. I was on 17 meters and asked if the frequency was in use? I then called CQ and a station came back who was 59 +20 who said the frequency was in use. I listened to this frequency (18.115) for 20 minutes and never heard anyone.

It's a tough call. It happened sometimes that I was listening to both sides of a QSO in which I was not participating, then a station comes along and asks (on top of the QSO) if the frequency is in use. Obviously that station was not hearing the QSO I was listening to and since I was not participating I hesitated before replying.
If I reply that "the frequency is in use thanks for asking", the guy could actually sits there and never hear anything since I'm not part of the QSO, only listening.
I have mixed feelings about this, I mean, I'm not using the frequency but I'm listening to it... and I would like to keep on.

[ve2nsm]

Please, if you ask this question, LISTEN!!!

I hear many during regular time (not contest even!) just asking "is the frequency in use?" then 1/2 second later just firing up a CQ. Then when someone tells them the freq is in use, they get all riled up, "but I asked if the frequency was in use, no one answered!!!" Yea, maybe if you gave the person time to answer you!
The one that gets me everytime is when some guy comes 1kHz away and asks if the frequency is in use. By the time you get to his frequency and tells him it is, he started already.
You tell him it's in use and go back to your spot and after 30 seconds he kicks in again. You go back there again to tell him there's a QSO on (insert frequency here) and he replies "oh, but I'm not on your frequency"

Gets me everytime, like if an SSB signal was using ONLY the frequency he sees on his dial :mad:

[ab8ro]

It's a tough call. It happened sometimes that I was listening to both sides of a QSO in which I was not participating, then a station comes along and asks (on top of the QSO) if the frequency is in use. Obviously that station was not hearing the QSO I was listening to and since I was not participating I hesitated before replying.
If I reply that "the frequency is in use thanks for asking", the guy could actually sits there and never hear anything since I'm not part of the QSO, only listening.
I have mixed feelings about this, I mean, I'm not using the frequency but I'm listening to it... and I would like to keep on.

Here's some food for thought. We know the listening station can't hear the qso that you can. We can also assume that those involved in the qso can't hear the station asking if the frequency is in use since they didn't respond tp the query. It may, or may not, follow that since you can hear the qso that you will cause interference to them by responding to the querying station. So, it seems that the only qrm comes from you.

Now, maybe you'd like to tail end one of those guys, ok. But it seems to me that the frequency can probably be shared with those involved in the qso and this other person and whoever responds to him. Particularly since it also follows that anyone responding to the other person that can also hear the qso should assume that they would be causing qrm by responding.

[ve2nsm]

Now, maybe you'd like to tail end one of those guys, ok. But it seems to me that the frequency can probably be shared with those involved in the qso and this other person and whoever responds to him. Particularly since it also follows that anyone responding to the other person that can also hear the qso should assume that they would be causing qrm by responding.

Of course, that's why I said that it's a tough call, I'd like to listen to the guys but at the same time, another QSO could take place and nobody would be bothered.
The basic question is: Does a station that only listen has less "rights" than a station who also transmits?

[kn4ds]

There's a flip side to this, and it has happened to me... I asked THREE times if the frequency was in use, over the course of 90 seconds or so... nothing heard, so I call my station (arranged via cell phone to see if the propagation was there).

I then get someone jumping all over me because a net is scheduled to start in 15 minutes, and it's their frequency.

Sheesh... ok, OM, happy to move on for you....

I wouldn't mind someone telling me the frequency is in use, if it really is. I'd hope they would. But don't wait 'til the CQ starts, especially if I have asked 3 times already.

[ab8ro]

Of course, that's why I said that it's a tough call, I'd like to listen to the guys but at the same time, another QSO could take place and nobody would be bothered.
The basic question is: Does a station that only listen has less "rights" than a station who also transmits?

I don't think it really comes down to that. If you aren't participating in the qso then I don't think that you can claim to be using the frequency. Certainly an an unlicensed listener cannot make any such claims. You're really just wanting to use the frequency just like others that show up and can't hear the ongoing qso. Just because their purpose is different, i.e. to talk with each other and not the stations that you can hear, doesn't give them any less right to do so.

I may be completely wrong, that's just my perception. To me it's a bit like people who try to reserve seats for their friends by sitting grandma down in the front row of crowded events with five sweaters spread across seats that nobody is sitting in nor will be sitting in for quite some time, if at all. Sure they are "allowed" to do that, but is it really fair to other people who want to use the facilities right now?

It seems to me that if four people can use the frequency then that's better usage of shared frequencies than if two (+ one, maybe) are using it.

I can see where you're coming from but it strikes me that it's part of what contributes to others thinking that people are frequency squatting.

I'd be really curious if there has ever been any "enforcement action" or discussion related to this.

[ab8ro]

There's a flip side to this, and it has happened to me... I asked THREE times if the frequency was in use, over the course of 90 seconds or so... nothing heard, so I call my station (arranged via cell phone to see if the propagation was there).

I then get someone jumping all over me because a net is scheduled to start in 15 minutes, and it's their frequency.

Sheesh... ok, OM, happy to move on for you....

I wouldn't mind someone telling me the frequency is in use, if it really is. I'd hope they would. But don't wait 'til the CQ starts, especially if I have asked 3 times already.

I thought the rules regarding that is the net should move up or down to accommodate? In any case, unless the net is running NOW, the frequency is not in use. Particularly since so many nets are little more than group qsos anyway.

[wa3vjb]

I then get someone jumping all over me because a net is scheduled to start in 15 minutes, and it's their frequency.

Must be the traffic "No traffic!" net. I've heard them and the "Dead Air Net" that Don cited.

Some of these nets have a bowling alley mentality, where they think a frequency is reserved for them just like a league night. Sometimes I'll point out that this is not the case.

Other times, if you've got the patience to play it very, very straightfaced, when confronted this way kindly ask for the calls of the ringleader in a tone of voice that is neutral, maybe welcoming. Once you get that information, patiently invite him and his group to join your conversation "for a while" or whatever reasonable-sounding time frame seems like forever.

It's the damndest thing but they invariably sputter and fume and carry on, sometimes even describing how important their net is and how they've been on that frequency since Methuselah was net control.

Yet, if you stay even tempered, they really can't argue with your willingness to share the frequency, and the problem gets solved.

[A71AN]

Please, if you ask this question, LISTEN!!!

I hear many during regular time (not contest even!) just asking "is the frequency in use?" then 1/2 second later just firing up a CQ. Then when someone tells them the freq is in use, they get all riled up, "but I asked if the frequency was in use, no one answered!!!" Yea, maybe if you gave the person time to answer you!

I do my friend, 3 times I ask if the frequency is in use and wait for a while before I start calling cq.

I have noticed some people from Eastren Eu, they do a different things, they can copy you and the station in contact with you, and at the middle of the qso they call qrz, if you are copying the other side and you do not answer they qrz caller he start imidiatly calling cq on your frequency, this is now happing a lot.

There are also many stations will come with a frection of hertz and start calling cq, hopping that the stations contacting you will also hear them and contact them which makes a massive qrm on your frequency.

But the most interesting thing I have experinced so far, is that some one wil lcome to your frequency from now where and start a full qso with himself, no one on the other side and after a while will ask you, qrz? then give yo uhis call sign, this is happining when you are with real dx stations, just to disturb your hearing.

There are no moderators like the old days to monitor these wrong activities, or may be because some rejoins give tones of call signs to their people even without training and procedure knowing, the moderators can not cope with the number of the people on the air any more.

We can keep writting stories here of whats going on but thats just a waste of time, no one is really interested.

Again there are time when you are on the clauster and your frequency is stated there and your are calling a specific dx countries, there will be people who will just creat qrm for the reason of getting you out of mood.

I really have a great trouble now a days copping with sort of problems, last night I was trying to pick a station from the state side and there was SP6 station througing his call for me continusely, although I tell him, please you are no na station and I only call na, he go more mad and creat more qrm.

I am sure no one on his side is monitoring such such person attitude that why he is not botherd and can do what ever he want to do.


Thank you my friend again and be well.

[WA9SVD]

Of course, that's why I said that it's a tough call, I'd like to listen to the guys but at the same time, another QSO could take place and nobody would be bothered.
The basic question is: Does a station that only listen has less "rights" than a station who also transmits?

By that illogic, what rights would a non-licensed person have? Should they use their cell phone to call the person asking if the frequency is in use, and tell them to shut up?:confused:

[N2RJ]

I then get someone jumping all over me because a net is scheduled to start in 15 minutes, and it's their frequency.

If the band is crowded, I usually tell these idiots to buzz off. No one owns a frequency, and we shouldn't encourage frequency ownership.

[KD6NIG]

I'm surprised that he waited a half second for your reply. I've heard guys use it like it was part of the script. "Frequency in use? CQ CQ......"

He probably patted himself on the back for at least waiting a half second.

[ve2nsm]

By that illogic, what rights would a non-licensed person have? Should they use their cell phone to call the person asking if the frequency is in use, and tell them to shut up?:confused:

Well obviously you haven't read _or followed_
I'm not talking about unlicensed stations, I'm talking about me, listening to a QSO, I'm licensed, I could break in but I won't because for now I have nothing to say but the QSO is very interesting.
My question is: Why should I not answer "the frequency is in use" when asked?
Just because I'm not planning to transmit does not mean I'm not using it.

What if there's this station calling DX and making contacts, even if you're not planning to transmit because you already work the guy but you just want to keep listening, would you say "the frequency is in use"? Maybe if a QSO starts and does not bother the DX caller, it may bother an eventual contact for him...

I was just answering to AC0FP about his 17m question, saying that it may be a possibility because it has happened to me in the past.
I never did reply to the guy who was asking if the frequency was in use and I lost the QSO, or maybe I did one time when I was listening to something REALLY interesting, I don't remember. Bottom line is, I'm not sure I'm entitled to reserve the frequency for my listening pleasure but... I'm a licensed ham and I could.

Ham radio is not only about transmitting, I listen a lot LOT more than I transmit so like I said, for me it's a tough call.

[ve2nsm]

It seems to me that if four people can use the frequency then that's better usage of shared frequencies than if two (+ one, maybe) are using it.

I can see where you're coming from but it strikes me that it's part of what contributes to others thinking that people are frequency squatting.

I'd be really curious if there has ever been any "enforcement action" or discussion related to this.

It's arguable, your statement makes a lot of sense, 2 parallel QSOs is good band usage. What if the band is not crowded? Of course if it's a crowded band or a contest situation it's a no-brainer.

The only thing that bothers me is that with this practice, it gives more power to the "talking" than to the "listening".

Let's say I'm only part of the QSO by making one comment every 10 minutes, then would it be acceptable for me to claim the frequency is is use?

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I honestly want to know how other hams think, I don't even have a clear position on that subject, it's delicate.

[AG3Y]

The point was made earlier about the bandwidth of certain signals and the QRM that they can create even if they are a Khz or two away!

This is very true, especially in the case of certain "calling frequencies" and "DX windows" that should be widely know, but often are not respected.

On 14.230, an internationally acknowledged SSTV calling frequency, there will often be a person trying to carry on a QSO with someone else, that has NOTHING to do with SSTV! If someone tries to inform them of the "normal" use of the frequency, sometimes they will dig in their heels and get ready to butt their heads against the entire SSTV group. Other times, they say they will QSY. " Lets go down a Khz and carry on from 14.229. " That doesn't help a BIT !

73, Jim

[KF4ICL]

There's a flip side to this, and it has happened to me... I asked THREE times if the frequency was in use, over the course of 90 seconds or so... nothing heard, so I call my station (arranged via cell phone to see if the propagation was there).

I then get someone jumping all over me because a net is scheduled to start in 15 minutes, and it's their frequency....

I'd tell that moron "Then I'll be finished in 15 minutes. If you're lucky". :rolleyes:

[ab8ro]

It's arguable, your statement makes a lot of sense, 2 parallel QSOs is good band usage. What if the band is not crowded? Of course if it's a crowded band or a contest situation it's a no-brainer.


Although in that case it's probably more understandable, it doesn't really change any of the parameters. In other words, you aren't involved in the qso in question and thus others may still think that you are frequency squatting.


The only thing that bothers me is that with this practice, it gives more power to the "talking" than to the "listening".


Well, if you think about it, that's what the license is for. You surely don't need one to receive.


Let's say I'm only part of the QSO by making one comment every 10 minutes, then would it be acceptable for me to claim the frequency is is use?


I think so, again, this is just my opinion. There is a distinct difference in that case in that you are involved in the qso. Once one of the parties involved in the qso acknowledges you and includes you in the qso then it is the three of you, or perhaps just you and the acknowledging party. Before that time, it's not even established if that's possible. Just because you can hear them does not mean that they can hear you. Of course there must still be some reason to this argument. We can't for example extend "10 minutes" to an indefinite period of time. Someone else observed that they listened for 20 minutes and heard no use. I think that's within the bounds of reasonable but beyond that one should not get too upset that others want to use the frequency. In other words, you should at least jump in and ID every 10 minutes or so if you expect others to respect that you are participating in a qso that they can't hear.


I'm not trying to start an argument here, I honestly want to know how other hams think, I don't even have a clear position on that subject, it's delicate.

Nor I. If it sounds that way then I apologize. I'm just interested in having an engaged discussion on the topic.

[KD0BQM]

Perhaps we are a little over zealous when we refer to a net as frequency squatters. One of the primary functions of Ham radio has been and is being accomplished by "nets." While many (perhaps most) nets evolve into simple rag-chew sessions, almost all of them preface this activity with a call for traffic, calls from mobiles and new members. If traffic and/or messages present themselves, they are handled in the manner expected of Ham Radio Operators. Once there is no more traffic, and no more messages, they then have the opportunity to chat. No big deal. But for the regular members, some of which may not even be able to hear net control on any given night, to have to search around for the net that "should" be on a particular frequency but is not because someone else did not feel that 350 members having to tune around is less important than THEIR claim of first come-first serve, I think is ingratious(sic) and selfish. I for one have no problem QSY'ing when informed that a net will be starting up in 10 or 15 minutes. If they are rude to me, I assume it is because they have met with some of you that give them a load of crap when they make that same announcement and are merely assuming a "best defense" strategy.

Look, although nobody "OWNS" a particular frequency and all freqs are up for grabs, there is a certain amount of common courtesy and common sense involved. Just twiddle the VFO a bit and try again.

[N2RJ]

Perhaps we are a little over zealous when we refer to a net as frequency squatters. One of the primary functions of Ham radio has been and is being accomplished by "nets." While many (perhaps most) nets evolve into simple rag-chew sessions, almost all of them preface this activity with a call for traffic, calls from mobiles and new members. If traffic and/or messages present themselves, they are handled in the manner expected of Ham Radio Operators. Once there is no more traffic, and no more messages, they then have the opportunity to chat. No big deal. But for the regular members, some of which may not even be able to hear net control on any given night, to have to search around for the net that "should" be on a particular frequency but is not because someone else did not feel that 350 members having to tune around is less important than THEIR claim of first come-first serve, I think is ingratious(sic) and selfish. I for one have no problem QSY'ing when informed that a net will be starting up in 10 or 15 minutes. If they are rude to me, I assume it is because they have met with some of you that give them a load of crap when they make that same announcement and are merely assuming a "best defense" strategy.

Look, although nobody "OWNS" a particular frequency and all freqs are up for grabs, there is a certain amount of common courtesy and common sense involved. Just twiddle the VFO a bit and try again.

I have no problem with nets, but nets should be flexible. One of the hallmarks of the amateur radio service on HF is that frequencies aren't really owned by people. There are only a few who actually own frequencies, and they serve a common good - i.e. propagation beacons.

You make a big deal about QSYing around to find a frequency. OM, you are not rock bound. QSYing is really no big deal. Many nets I know of do QSY if the frequency is in use, and they go on as normal, with just as many checkins.

QSYing for me may involve retuning the amp and possibly the antenna, and losing a productive frequency where I was maybe spotted on the cluster.

So don't be rude. You can certainly move your net somewhere else.

But the vast majority of nets and roundtables have to be flexible, and be prepared to QSY if the frequency is in use.

[ab8ro]

Perhaps we are a little over zealous when we refer to a net as frequency squatters. One of the primary functions of Ham radio has been and is being accomplished by "nets." While many (perhaps most) nets evolve into simple rag-chew sessions, almost all of them preface this activity with a call for traffic, calls from mobiles and new members. If traffic and/or messages present themselves, they are handled in the manner expected of Ham Radio Operators. Once there is no more traffic, and no more messages, they then have the opportunity to chat. No big deal. But for the regular members, some of which may not even be able to hear net control on any given night, to have to search around for the net that "should" be on a particular frequency but is not because someone else did not feel that 350 members having to tune around is less important than THEIR claim of first come-first serve, I think is ingratious(sic) and selfish. I for one have no problem QSY'ing when informed that a net will be starting up in 10 or 15 minutes. If they are rude to me, I assume it is because they have met with some of you that give them a load of crap when they make that same announcement and are merely assuming a "best defense" strategy.


You're exaggerating. Most nets that I hear don't have 350 members, more like 3.5. Any net with 350 members should have an experienced enough net control to know the rules and members capable of looking a few kc up or down to find the net. After all, if you can't find a 350 member net within a few kc, what kind of help are you going to be in "times of trouble."

You can't make up rules because they suit your fancy. It IS first come first served and ALL users are expected to share the frequencies. This includes so called "nets."


Look, although nobody "OWNS" a particular frequency and all freqs are up for grabs, there is a certain amount of common courtesy and common sense involved. Just twiddle the VFO a bit and try again.

Certainly. I'll agree with common courtesy. That goes both ways and the proper procedure for nets is to move up or down if the frequency is in use. Once the net has started, then the frequency is in use, until then, you're camping.

[WA9SVD]

Well obviously you haven't read _or followed_
I'm not talking about unlicensed stations, I'm talking about me, listening to a QSO, I'm licensed, I could break in but I won't because for now I have nothing to say but the QSO is very interesting.
My question is: Why should I not answer "the frequency is in use" when asked?
Just because I'm not planning to transmit does not mean I'm not using it.

What if there's this station calling DX and making contacts, even if you're not planning to transmit because you already work the guy but you just want to keep listening, would you say "the frequency is in use"? Maybe if a QSO starts and does not bother the DX caller, it may bother an eventual contact for him...

I was just answering to AC0FP about his 17m question, saying that it may be a possibility because it has happened to me in the past.
I never did reply to the guy who was asking if the frequency was in use and I lost the QSO, or maybe I did one time when I was listening to something REALLY interesting, I don't remember. Bottom line is, I'm not sure I'm entitled to reserve the frequency for my listening pleasure but... I'm a licensed ham and I could.

Ham radio is not only about transmitting, I listen a lot LOT more than I transmit so like I said, for me it's a tough call.

Yes, I READ, and COMPREHEND. But if you ARE NOT part of the conversation (or QSO if you wish) then the frequency is NOT in use as far as the station asking is concerned. If you aren't part of the QSO, you are just another listener, licensed or not. For all you know, the station asking could be through with his call or change bands before the stations you were listening to finished their conversation.

[n4cd]

Sometimes someone asks if the freq is in use. If I'm up 1 Khz or down 1 Khz in QSO, it might take me a few seconds to figure out where the QRM suddenly came from, and I don't understand SSB when it is 1 KHz off freq. If you ask once, and no one replies on that freq, don't assume instantly it isn't in use. Someone may be up 1.2 KHz or down, and it takes a few moments to figure out where the sudden loud sig came from.

So ask two or three times....so I can zero you and let you know it is in use (and I'll let you know where). In some cases, on 20M esp, there is a net in operation with a net control you might not hear, and you might never hear him, just stations responding occasionally to him/her at points, or taking their turns.

On 17M, you have large skip zones, so there could be someone using it and you won't hear a peep. Same on 20M these days. Someone may be in QSO 100 miles from you with a far away station, and if you are about the same strength as the one you are listening to, you might not get an instant response.....mixed together.

Just chill...if someone comes back after your CQ and says 'kindly QSY'..we are up one, down 1 in QSO or the net is down 1 and you are clobbering us......

[A71AN]

Sometimes someone asks if the freq is in use. If I'm up 1 Khz or down 1 Khz in QSO, it might take me a few seconds to figure out where the QRM suddenly came from, and I don't understand SSB when it is 1 KHz off freq. If you ask once, and no one replies on that freq, don't assume instantly it isn't in use. Someone may be up 1.2 KHz or down, and it takes a few moments to figure out where the sudden loud sig came from.

So ask two or three times....so I can zero you and let you know it is in use (and I'll let you know where). In some cases, on 20M esp, there is a net in operation with a net control you might not hear, and you might never hear him, just stations responding occasionally to him/her at points, or taking their turns.

On 17M, you have large skip zones, so there could be someone using it and you won't hear a peep. Same on 20M these days. Someone may be in QSO 100 miles from you with a far away station, and if you are about the same strength as the one you are listening to, you might not get an instant response.....mixed together.

Just chill...if someone comes back after your CQ and says 'kindly QSY'..we are up one, down 1 in QSO or the net is down 1 and you are clobbering us......


I use a station monitor and usually do know who is so close to my frequency and weather or not some is transmitting there or not.

I use the Kenwood SM-230 station monitor specailly to figure out who is on that frequency or even near by the frequency I am planing to operate on.

Still when some one is going to creat qrm, nothing would help.

I have also noticed these days that many are operating digital at the sharp down of the band, like yestrday many been around 14005mhz and around that area, usually down that far is used for hams with very low speed, again this is one of the signs where many hams do not keep to the right procedures.


Thank you my friend and wishing you all of the best

[KC2PBJ]

I just love the guys who spend five minutes tuning up over someone's QSO and then asking "Is the frequency in use?" Some guys just can't bring themselves to listen first.

[ky5u]

I just love the guys who spend five minutes tuning up over someone's QSO and then asking "Is the frequency in use?" Some guys just can't bring themselves to listen first.
Dang no code QRMers!

[ky5u]

If you really want a laugh, look at Riley's comments in the ARRL letter in the news section here. Everything is bunny rabbits, butterflies, and sweet smelling flowers in AR according to him. I am always thankful he is with us to help, but his "straight jacket" comment is not far off. If he had the ability to suspend people for 30, 60, 90 days it could be used to cool off the hot spots.

[KD6NIG]

If you really want a laugh, look at Riley's comments in the ARRL letter in the news section here. Everything is bunny rabbits, butterflies, and sweet smelling flowers in AR according to him. I am always thankful he is with us to help, but his "straight jacket" comment is not far off. If he had the ability to suspend people for 30, 60, 90 days it could be used to cool off the hot spots.

Maybe. Some of the more illustrious idiots in our hobby ignored such requests to stay off the air and just got on anyway, either using no callsign or a made up one.

It would work for those who like to stick a toe or maybe a foot across the rule line on occasion, and for those who, if said toe or foot got stomped, wouldn't tread again-but for those who blatently don't care, it would just be a waste of paper and time-they would do it anyway, and likely wear it as a badge of honor.

[k3wrv]

Hey gusy-

This happened to me three times today on 14.230 (SSTV per the band plan) while i was tring to get a new computer set up, and they blew my setup with QRM in the middle of a picture. Worst was that they were solid S-9, but didn't respond to my "Yep it is in use" until I turned on the amp. What are these guys using? Wet noodle ant and S-38 and an AL-80? (or maybe a crystal set?)

The band isn't real busy right now, so what's the hurry? It's not a contest day. We could follow the band plans (if we knew about them, but maybe some of us dont).

<EXIT RANT MODE>:

Allegators (all mouth and no ears) have been around for years. But this was getting rediculous!

Maybe we could make sure we can receive before we buy that amp. It does take a bit of time to get to learn ham radio, but there are skills you learn over the years, and it's to realize that we learned that.

"Ya Gotta know the territory" - Musicman. And "you can't work em if you can't hear them" How about putting those questions on the tests?

Thew receiver is the MOST important of your station. How else will you hear DX? ( and Eurpoe really isn't DX these days!)

[KC2PBJ]

Dang no code QRMers!

Speak for yourself. I passed mine several months before taking the written.

[K0DXC]

Please, if you ask this question, LISTEN!!!

I hear many during regular time (not contest even!) just asking "is the frequency in use?" then 1/2 second later just firing up a CQ. Then when someone tells them the freq is in use, they get all riled up, "but I asked if the frequency was in use, no one answered!!!" Yea, maybe if you gave the person time to answer you!

The kind of operator you just described = LID

[AC0FP]

I have posted this question on this forum before. I was on 17 meters and asked if the frequency was in use? I then called CQ and a station came back who was 59 +20 who said the frequency was in use. I listened to this frequency (18.115) for 20 minutes and never heard anyone.

Frank

PS: The last time I posted this I got a reply like "why didn't you QSY". The reason was the band was dead and I was just calling CQ. I was curious as to whether the frequency was really in use.

After reading some of the posts here, I guess some might construe "listening" as "using" the frequency. I beleive that was the case in my 17 meter example above, however as previously stated all I heard was "the frequency is in use" and dead air, no callsign.

Frank

[ea3feb]

Very well. You are right!!It is a beautiful thought. ea3feb

[cu2jt]

But then there are the folk who don't ask - they just cut loose with the CQ machine. I generally respond "Yes the frequency IS in use!, thank you for asking".

Not to mention those with a 5 minutes tune up session and then ask if the frequency is in use...

[AC0FP]

Not to mention those with a 5 minutes tune up session and then ask if the frequency is in use...

I always viewed that practice as marking and clearing out "their" frequency, similar to a dog marking a fire hydrant. :rolleyes:

[cu2jt]

I always viewed that practice as marking and clearing out "their" frequency, similar to a dog marking a fire hydrant. :rolleyes:

I almost forgot the HOOOOOLA gang. They don't even bother to ask.

[k0cmh]

14.230 is pretty much like the wild west.

On many occassions, I have asked "is the frequency in use" in my usual manner (listen 60 seconds, tune up/down 3Ks, ask agin, wait 30 seconds, tuen up and down 3Ks, ask one more time, wait 30 seconds) and then transmit a photo.

When my rig unkeys, there is another signal, S9 or so, blasting a picture.

Also, using the same technique, at the end of the third inquiry, up comes a SSTV signal, calling CQ.

When just listening, I often hear three and four people transmitting together.

It is wild at times on 14.230.

Also: don't dare send an analog SSTV signal on 14. 233, unless you want fire and snakes coming out of your speaker.

[KD0BQM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KD0BQM View Post
Perhaps we are a little over zealous when we refer to a net as frequency squatters. One of the primary functions of Ham radio has been and is being accomplished by "nets." While many (perhaps most) nets evolve into simple rag-chew sessions, almost all of them preface this activity with a call for traffic, calls from mobiles and new members. If traffic and/or messages present themselves, they are handled in the manner expected of Ham Radio Operators. Once there is no more traffic, and no more messages, they then have the opportunity to chat. No big deal. But for the regular members, some of which may not even be able to hear net control on any given night, to have to search around for the net that "should" be on a particular frequency but is not because someone else did not feel that 350 members having to tune around is less important than THEIR claim of first come-first serve, I think is ingratious(sic) and selfish. I for one have no problem QSY'ing when informed that a net will be starting up in 10 or 15 minutes. If they are rude to me, I assume it is because they have met with some of you that give them a load of crap when they make that same announcement and are merely assuming a "best defense" strategy.

Look, although nobody "OWNS" a particular frequency and all freqs are up for grabs, there is a certain amount of common courtesy and common sense involved. Just twiddle the VFO a bit and try again.
I have no problem with nets, but nets should be flexible. One of the hallmarks of the amateur radio service on HF is that frequencies aren't really owned by people. There are only a few who actually own frequencies, and they serve a common good - i.e. propagation beacons.

You make a big deal about QSYing around to find a frequency. OM, you are not rock bound. QSYing is really no big deal. Many nets I know of do QSY if the frequency is in use, and they go on as normal, with just as many checkins.

QSYing for me may involve retuning the amp and possibly the antenna, and losing a productive frequency where I was maybe spotted on the cluster.

So don't be rude. You can certainly move your net somewhere else.

But the vast majority of nets and roundtables have to be flexible, and be prepared to QSY if the frequency is in use.

I see the thread has morphed from the initial question to being QRM'd during a QSO. That was not the original topin and the original topic was the subject of my post.

If you are ASKING if the frequency is in use, I assume you WANT to use it -- not that you ARE using it. Thus my post suggests that you, since you are asking, are prepared to move IF if might be in use. Thus you have no excuse to DEFEND your choice of frequency unless you have a sked set up and would like the opportunity to make you contact and then, perhaps QSY.

I am not defending a net's "claim" of a particular frequency against an ongoing QSO -- I am merely pointing out that when you ask if the frequency is is use, you are implying that you are ready willing and able to move to another frequency. IMHO, unless there are absolutely NO other available frequencies available ( an almost impossible situation) you might feel compelled to defend your right to the one open frequency to the death. Otherwise, what's the problem?

Again, I am only referring here to the response to "Is the frequency in use?" query that is that a net session is imminent. I would do the same if an individual came back to me and said he or she had set up a sked with a DX station on this particular frequency. But just a simple, "No, but I plan to use it tonight sometime and you can't use it!" type of response would get my hackles up just as quickly as if he or she had cut my coax.

BTW, if I were a listener, as referred to in an earlier post, I would probably answer the "use" query with a "there is a qso in progress on this frequency but I don't know if either can hear you or would experience interference from you. KD0BQM."

It certainly can't hurt.

[KB1KIX]

There's the flipside.

I do this all the time.

I was on 20M one day when I said this and someone said "yes", no call, nuttin'. Very nice signal as well.

So I said fine, moved up 10 and found another perch.

I had another radio monitoring in the background, yet I heard nothing, whatsoever.

About 20 minutes later, I heard that same person start up a net - he was babysitting his frequency and wasn't even in a QSO.

God forbid we should steal someone elses spectrum!

Jonathan

[k4kyv]

Originally Posted by AC0FP
I have posted this question on this forum before. I was on 17 meters and asked if the frequency was in use? I then called CQ and a station came back who was 59 +20 who said the frequency was in use. I listened to this frequency (18.115) for 20 minutes and never heard anyone.

Originally Posted by KB1KIX
I was on 20M one day when I said this and someone said "yes", no call, nuttin'. Very nice signal as well.

So I said fine, moved up 10 and found another perch.

I had another radio monitoring in the background, yet I heard nothing, whatsoever.

About 20 minutes later, I heard that same person start up a net - he was babysitting his frequency and wasn't even in a QSO.

Classic examples of Dead-Air Groups!

[WA9SVD]

There are some operators who ask if the frequency is in use, just so they know whether or not to use their amplifier to use the frequency...:(