View Full Version : Energy optimism
W8EJO
04-30-2008, 06:37 PM
Amidst all the gloom & doom regarding the economy & energy prices, here are a few kernels of hope:
1) GM Ethanol Partner Announces Pilot Plant
April 25, 2008
PITTSBURGH – Coskata Inc., developer of a unique process that uses specialized bacteria to produce cellulosic ethanol – and with whom General Motors Corp. formed a partnership last January – announced Friday it will begin construction near here for the first production facility to demonstrate the process.
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/04/gm-ethanol-part.html
2) ZENN Motor Targets Highway-Capable, EEStor-Powered Vehicle for 2009
29 March 2008
During its Annual and Special Meeting of Shareholders, ZENN Motor Company Inc. (ZMC) said that it is targeting the launch of the cityZENN EV, powered by EEStor, for the fall of 2009. The cityZENN is planned to be a fully certified, highway capable vehicle with a top speed of 125 kph (80 mph) and a range or 400 kilometers (250 miles). The cityZENN is supposed to be rechargeable in less than 5 minutes.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/03/zenn-motor-comp.html
Ethanol? From what feedstock?
I remember some guy telling me about a machine that could make oil from raw sewage.
IMO, that would solve two problems - how do we get rid of our waste, and it would provide an additional source of energy.
I think the problem though was that to produce a barrel of oil, it required more energy than was contained in that said barrel of oil.
Our wonderful Democratic governor in Oklahoma thinks that switchgrass is the cat's meow and they are planting the stuff not far from me. This idiot thinks that this is the answer but is the most difficult to refine ethanol.
Is there no end to stupidity or does it just move from topic to topic? 10% ethanol fuel reduces mileage about 15% and increases "Global Warming" more than petrochemical products.
If I could I would tell the idiot to go hug a tree, it would be better for all.
W8EJO
05-01-2008, 10:56 AM
Coskata’s process can generate enough ethanol to produce as much as 7.7 times more energy than the process requires (compared to ethanol from corn's efficiency of 1.3 times the energy required to produce it).
Coskata said its process can produce cellulosic ethanol for less than $1 a gallon!
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/01/gm-launches-par.html
Here is a possible solution that is almost ready to be on the road.
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/owning/
It is the hydrogen to seems to be the possible problem.
73
George
K3UD
K0RGR
05-01-2008, 06:16 PM
Yes, cellulosic ethanol is projected to be many times more efficient than deriving it from corn or sugar cane. I'm surprised at the 7.7 X factor - that seems much lower than expected. In theory, it could be up to 100X as efficient as corn ethanol production.
I still think that electric vehicles are a big key to this whole delimna, and we need to do whatever we can to make them a reality. Electric vehicles would give us a way to store massive amounts of electrical energy - energy that can be produced by wind, solar, or wave energy - intermittent, but reliable enough for this purpose.
Of course, the powers that be have this all figured out, too. So, electricity will become prohibitively expensive. Wind power is wonderful. We could easily use wind to generate enough electricity to recharge our electric cars overnight. The problem is, we don't have any way to transport it! Our electric grid needs a trillion dollars in upgrades to be able to deliver that wind power where it's needed - we're nearly maxed out on capacity now.
Too bad our politicians are so good at finding ridiculous things to waste our money on, when we could be putting the infrastructure in place to prevent the big economic disaster that's sure to come when we can no longer afford oil.
Here is a possible solution that is almost ready to be on the road.
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/owning/
It is the hydrogen to seems to be the possible problem.
73
George
K3UD
Currently we get Hydrogen by processing (burning) hydrocarbons. So we're back to square 1.
N4VGB
05-01-2008, 06:55 PM
Currently we get Hydrogen by processing (burning) hydrocarbons. So we're back to square 1.
Say what? Hydrogen fuel cells have been used in the Space Shuttle for some time now. The new Honda is not a true hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, it just runs on already poduced hydrogen.
A true hydrogen fuel cell vehicle only requires water to be put into the tank.
Say what? Hydrogen fuel cells have been used in the Space Shuttle for some time now. The new Honda is not a true hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, it just runs on already poduced hydrogen.
A true hydrogen fuel cell vehicle only requires water to be put into the tank.
The only way I'm familiar with to get hydrogen from water is via electrolysis which uses LOTS of electricity. Have they figured some way around that requirement?
N4VGB
05-01-2008, 09:26 PM
The only way I'm familiar with to get hydrogen from water is via electrolysis which uses LOTS of electricity. Have they figured some way around that requirement?
You can still purchase the gear and tank to produce your own hydrogen from water at home. The electrical usage is rated at a very low level but I've never personally owned the gear. I'm just not big on fooling with hydrogen unless it has a stinky additive mixed into it.
W8EJO
05-02-2008, 09:03 PM
GM Announces New Cellulosic Ethanol Partnership with Mascoma Corp.
Written by Clayton B. Cornell
Published on May 1st, 20081 CommentPosted in Biofuels business, Science, cellulosic ethanol
Mascoma said their fuel would incur approximately $1.00 to $1.50 per gallon production cost.
GM said they’ve thoroughly evaluated Mascoma’s environmental metrics, which include:
Greenhouse gas savings: 90-95% reduction when compared to gasoline.
Commercial stage net energy balance: around 1:8-10 (8 to 10 units of energy produced for each put in
http://www.mascoma.com/technology/cbp.html
W8EJO
05-09-2008, 05:56 PM
Volkswagen to produce 1-Liter car in 2010, should get over 200MPG.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/09/volkswagen-to-produce-1-liter-car-in-2010-should-get-over-200mp/
K8ERV
05-09-2008, 08:13 PM
Coskata said its process can produce cellulosic ethanol for less than $1 a gallon!
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/01/gm-launches-par.html
That's before the greedy fat cats get their mitts on it---
TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
W8EJO
05-10-2008, 12:34 PM
The EFuel100 MicroFueler™
The world's first portable, produce-where-you-consume, ethanol distiller. An easy to use, all-in-one unit. Just add the EFuel100 Feedstock Mix (EFuel100-FM, sugar and yeast) to the unit and press START--set it and forget it.
http://www.efuel100.com/t-product.aspx
W8EJO
05-10-2008, 12:37 PM
Trash today, ethanol tomorrow: Invention promises major advance in biofuel production
University of Maryland research that started with bacteria from the Chesapeake Bay has led to a process that may be able to convert large volumes of all kinds of plant products, from leftover brewer’s mash to paper trash, into ethanol and other biofuel alternatives to gasoline.
http://www.physorg.com/news124385238.html
W8EJO
05-10-2008, 03:22 PM
The American Energy Production Act of 2008 (S.2958) was introduced today (5/1/2008) by Sen. Pete Domenici and nineteen co-sponsors from across the country. By expanding production offshore and in Alaska, the legislation will produce up to 24 billion barrels of oil.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%2520News/1487859/
wa8rti
05-10-2008, 09:49 PM
VGB doesn't seem to understand that it takes energy to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen. No way that you can just put water into a car's tank. In a fuel cell you put the two back together to get energy with water as a by product. Until you have a really cheap source of energy, it isn't cost effective to do the hydrolysis to produce mass quantities of hydrogen. For the space program, they don't care about the cost of getting the hydrogen and oxygen.
W8EJO
05-12-2008, 12:28 PM
From today's Fort Worth STAR-TELEGRAM
Texas could lead nuclear power surge
By R.A. DYERStar-Telegram Staff Writer
STAR-TELEGRAM/STEVE WILSON
AUSTIN -- With eight power plants on the drawing board, Texas could lead the way in an American renaissance of nuclear power, according to industry leaders and some policymakers.
Four power companies -- New Jersey-based NRG Energy, Amarillo Power, Dallas-based Luminant and Chicago-based Exelon -- have proposed building nuclear plants in Texas. That would increase the reactors in the state from four to 12, and more than triple its nuclear output.
Full story:
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/636314.html
N4VGB
05-12-2008, 03:32 PM
VGB doesn't seem to understand that it takes energy to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen. No way that you can just put water into a car's tank. In a fuel cell you put the two back together to get energy with water as a by product. Until you have a really cheap source of energy, it isn't cost effective to do the hydrolysis to produce mass quantities of hydrogen. For the space program, they don't care about the cost of getting the hydrogen and oxygen.
Actually you can burn water vapor in your car alone with gasoline and improve performance/mileage considerably. Unfortunately I don't think a modern ECM/EFI setup will respond well to the treatment? Might work on an older TBI equipped vehicle? Years ago, my ex-wife's father set all our vehicles up with 'water injector' needle valves in the carbs, worked great.
Honda is playing on words with their latest "fuel cell" vehicle, it just burns hydrogen as fuel. There won't be any true "fuel cell" or "hydrogen fuel cell" vehicles in our lifetimes, way too expensive and dangerous at this time.
Most of the talk is just for the "greenies" and GivMint to waste a lot of money on at this time. Hydrogen is a fairly low power yield fuel and being such a small atom, difficult to contain.
Some of the best work in this field isn't being done by your multimillion dollar grant grabbers at universities or automobile manufacturers, it's being done by people like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-Hg6ntgqI . :cool:
W8EJO
05-13-2008, 11:56 AM
Majority Of Oil And Gas Execs Say Price Of Oil Will Fall Below 100 Dollars Soon
by Staff Writers
Houston TX (SPX) May 12, 2008
Oil and Gas executives say that the price-per-barrel of oil will drop significantly from the current high level by the end of the year, according to the results of a survey conducted by KPMG LLP's Global Energy Institute.
Full article:
http://www.energydaily.com/reports/Majority_Of_Oil_And_Gas_Execs_Say_Price_Of_Oil_Wil l_Fall_Below_100_Dollars_Soon_999.html
W4HAY
05-13-2008, 01:53 PM
I just hope the alt-energy folks are not relying on those bungling idiots on Capitol Hill!
For the last 28 years, Democrats in Congress and a few Republicans have again and again opposed our drilling for oil in Alaska's ANWR area when we knew it contained at least 10 billion barrels of oil we could be using now...
...Under the eight Clinton years alone, U.S. oil production declined 1,349,000 barrels per day, or 19%, while our foreign imports increased 3,574,000 barrels per day, or 45%.
During this time, President Clinton vetoed ANWR drilling bills that would have clearly made Alaska our No. 1 state in the production of our own vitally needed oil supply, not only for all Americans but also for national defense emergencies...
...Democrats kowtowed to the wishes of their environmental supporters over the basic needs of 300 million American citizens.
It is a national disgrace that all they now know how to do is relentlessly criticize, complain and condemn. They always attempt to blame, investigate and scapegoat someone else, in this case U.S. oil companies, when Congress is the true villain of ineptness for constantly blocking and obstructing every effort for us to become more productive and less dependent on foreign oil...
...It's wake-up time for America. Maybe we should investigate the blame-throwing investigators in Congress.
Who Is Really Responsible For The High Prices You Pay For Gasoline?
(http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=295485696665472)
Actually you can burn water vapor in your car alone with gasoline and improve performance/mileage considerably.
Doesn't work quite like I think you are remembering it. Water injection serves only one purpose in an internal combustion engine. It tones down the propensity for pre-ignition in high compression engines, or in poorly maintained engines that accumulate significant carbon deposits. It does this by cooling the flame front slightly. The only effect it can have on mileage is negative as it throws the air/fuel mixture off of stoichiometric, especially in computer controlled vehicles that already have knock sensors which will automatically retard the timing to achieve the same thing.
W8EJO
05-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Thermal Conversion Process, or TCP.
With TCP, the 6 billion tons of agricultural waste could theoretically be converted into 4 billion barrels of oil.
http://www.changingworldtech.com/what/index.asp
Actually you can burn water vapor in your car alone with gasoline and improve performance/mileage considerably. Unfortunately I don't think a modern ECM/EFI setup will respond well to the treatment? Might work on an older TBI equipped vehicle? Years ago, my ex-wife's father set all our vehicles up with 'water injector' needle valves in the carbs, worked great.
Honda is playing on words with their latest "fuel cell" vehicle, it just burns hydrogen as fuel. There won't be any true "fuel cell" or "hydrogen fuel cell" vehicles in our lifetimes, way too expensive and dangerous at this time.
Most of the talk is just for the "greenies" and GivMint to waste a lot of money on at this time. Hydrogen is a fairly low power yield fuel and being such a small atom, difficult to contain.
Some of the best work in this field isn't being done by your multimillion dollar grant grabbers at universities or automobile manufacturers, it's being done by people like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-Hg6ntgqI . :cool:
Smoking more of that wacky weed again?
The Honda FCX does NOT burn hydrogen in the way that your internal combustion engine does.
Do some research before you look like more of a fool again, Jethro.
I just hope the alt-energy folks are not relying on those bungling idiots on Capitol Hill!
Who Is Really Responsible For The High Prices You Pay For Gasoline?
(http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=295485696665472)
Who Is Really Responsible For The High Prices You Pay For Gasoline?
By N9XR | Posted Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:20 AM CT
For the last 232 years, Liberals in Congress and a few Conservatives have again and again opposed bank robbery when we knew it contained at least 10 million dollars of cash we could be using now.
IBD Series: Breaking The Back Of High Oil
• For the past 232 years, Congress repeatedly prevented us from stealing money from banks that we now badly need to pay for fuel.
• More recently, congressional Democrats defeated and discouraged any bill that would let us breathe. However, it's somehow OK for China to breathe.
• As a further indictment of our Congress, since the 1980s it has continually stopped all building of nuclear power plants except for the ones that they have allowed in the 1990's, and while France, Germany and, yes, Japan, plus 12 other major nations, did build plants and now get 20% to 80% of their energy from their wise and safe nuclear plant investments. Well, okay. Safe except for the Japanese leaks in 1999 where they had radiation 15,000 times the normal levels. Well, and then there are the leaks in France that injured seven workers, but they were "safe" injuries.
• From 1990 to 2000, U.S. crude oil demand rapidly accelerated by 7.41 quadrillion BTUs, according to Department of Energy data. And our rate of foreign oil dependency dramatically increased while our domestic oil production steadily declined. Many Honda Civics needed this crude oil to, well, just be crude.
Under the eight Clinton years alone, U.S. oil production declined 1,349,000 barrels per day, or 19%, while our foreign imports increased 3,574,000 barrels per day, or 45%. This was when Clinton was CEO of all the U.S. oil companies and he decided to cut production of U.S. oil.
During this time, President Clinton vetoed bank robbery bills that would have clearly made Alaska our No. 1 state for bank robberies, not only for all Americans but also for national defense emergencies.
So were Democrats and members of Congress together merely short-sighted, with only a few having any real business experience? The money is in the bank, duh.
Or were they just ignorant about economics — the fact that the law of supply and demand determines the price of all commodities such as oil, steel, copper and lumber, just like the lumber companies slash the cost of plywood right before an approaching hurricane?
Or were they simply and utterly irresponsible and incompetent in their actions that led us to become dangerously dependent on increasing oil imports from foreign countries by allowing auto makers to sell cars?
We think it was "all of the above."
The unintended consequence of the Congress members' poor judgment and meddling micromanagement of U.S. bank robbery policy is that they actually hurt most the very people they always profess to be able to help — the average American consumer, lower-income workers and those in the inner city who can't afford an extra $100 a month to drive to and from their jobs.
Democrats kowtowed to the wishes of their environmental supporters over the basic needs of 300 million American citizens for what? Clean water and clean air? We can breath and drink that when we're dead.
It is a national disgrace that all they now know how to do is relentlessly criticize, complain and condemn bank robbers. They always attempt to blame, investigate and scapegoat someone else, in this case bank robberies, when Congress is the true villain of ineptness for constantly blocking and obstructing every effort for us to become more productive and less dependent on a paycheck.
Do those now in Congress really think Middle America's voters are so gullible that they will believe that its latest best and brightest answer to increasing our supply of oil and gas is to slap a 25% windfall penalty tax on oil companies and remove all other incentives for oil companies to drill and explore for oil? They should know that Middle America would gladly pay those tax dollars and let the oil companies off the hook.
The right time to release oil from, or stop adding to, our Strategic Petroleum Reserve is not now. That will do everything to increase our ongoing oil supply needs and will have cosmic affect on oil prices while decreasing our national security risks as it has been shown to do in the past.
Only after we first announce to the world a bold new change in our policy by proclaiming that we intend to begin drilling in ANWR (Arizona's Nim Witted Retard) and selected outer sea areas (Sea of Tranquility), plus adopt new conservation programs (Like the liberals always propose), will the release of oil from our reserves have a major impact on breaking the price of oil even higher.
If our congressional leadership can't muster the courage to begin reversing past mistakes now and allow our companies to drill in ANWR SADAT and off-limits offshore areas around pre teens, and build essential jelly canneries and safe nuclear power plants that keep injuring people, what will an even-more-discredited Congress do in 2009, 2010 and 2011, when millions of new city dwellers in China and India will be driving the cars their countries are now producing at 58 MPG, thereby materially decreasing their already huge demand for oil and gas?
It's wake-up time for America. Maybe we should investigate the blame-throwing investigators in Congress for not investigating the Commander in Chimp and not allowing US citizens to rob banks legally.
n2ize
05-13-2008, 03:55 PM
VGB doesn't seem to understand that it takes energy to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen. No way that you can just put water into a car's tank. In a fuel cell you put the two back together to get energy with water as a by product. Until you have a really cheap source of energy, it isn't cost effective to do the hydrolysis to produce mass quantities of hydrogen. For the space program, they don't care about the cost of getting the hydrogen and oxygen.
He's confusing an electrolysis cell with a fuel cell. An electrolysis cell decomposes water into hydrogen + oxygen gas in a 2:1 ratio. As you point out, a specific number of electrons are required to enable the needed reduction (cathode) and oxidation (anode) reactions to occur. The only way to do it cheaply is to find a cheap source of electrons, i.e. an inexpensive source of electrical current (as if such an animal exists).
The fuel cell used by Honda is indeed a fuel cell. In a fuel cell the reactants (fuels) are pumped in and the cell produces electricity as long as the fuel is replenished. In the case of a Hydrogen Fuel cell the reactant is hydrogen which can be obtained via a tank of hydrogen or, claimed from other hydrogen rich substances via a device called a "reformer".
Reformer
http://http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fcv_fuels.shtml#reformer (http://http//www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fcv_fuels.shtml#reformer)
Water Electrolysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water
Fuel cell basics
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell (http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell)
n2ize
05-13-2008, 03:59 PM
Who Is Really Responsible For The High Prices You Pay For Gasoline?
By N9XR | Posted Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:20 AM CT
For the last 232 years, Liberals in Congress and a few Conservatives have again and again opposed bank robbery when we knew it contained at least 10 million dollars of cash we could be using now.
IBD Series: Breaking The Back Of High Oil
• For the past 232 years, Congress repeatedly prevented us from stealing money from banks that we now badly need to pay for fuel.
• More recently, congressional Democrats defeated and discouraged any bill that would let us breathe. However, it's somehow OK for China to breathe.
• As a further indictment of our Congress, since the 1980s it has continually stopped all building of nuclear power plants except for the ones that they have allowed in the 1990's, and while France, Germany and, yes, Japan, plus 12 other major nations, did build plants and now get 20% to 80% of their energy from their wise and safe nuclear plant investments. Well, okay. Safe except for the Japanese leaks in 1999 where they had radiation 15,000 times the normal levels. Well, and then there are the leaks in France that injured seven workers, but they were "safe" injuries.
• From 1990 to 2000, U.S. crude oil demand rapidly accelerated by 7.41 quadrillion BTUs, according to Department of Energy data. And our rate of foreign oil dependency dramatically increased while our domestic oil production steadily declined. Many Honda Civics needed this crude oil to, well, just be crude.
Under the eight Clinton years alone, U.S. oil production declined 1,349,000 barrels per day, or 19%, while our foreign imports increased 3,574,000 barrels per day, or 45%. This was when Clinton was CEO of all the U.S. oil companies and he decided to cut production of U.S. oil.
During this time, President Clinton vetoed bank robbery bills that would have clearly made Alaska our No. 1 state for bank robberies, not only for all Americans but also for national defense emergencies.
So were Democrats and members of Congress together merely short-sighted, with only a few having any real business experience? The money is in the bank, duh.
Or were they just ignorant about economics — the fact that the law of supply and demand determines the price of all commodities such as oil, steel, copper and lumber, just like the lumber companies slash the cost of plywood right before an approaching hurricane?
Or were they simply and utterly irresponsible and incompetent in their actions that led us to become dangerously dependent on increasing oil imports from foreign countries by allowing auto makers to sell cars?
We think it was "all of the above."
The unintended consequence of the Congress members' poor judgment and meddling micromanagement of U.S. bank robbery policy is that they actually hurt most the very people they always profess to be able to help — the average American consumer, lower-income workers and those in the inner city who can't afford an extra $100 a month to drive to and from their jobs.
Democrats kowtowed to the wishes of their environmental supporters over the basic needs of 300 million American citizens for what? Clean water and clean air? We can breath and drink that when we're dead.
It is a national disgrace that all they now know how to do is relentlessly criticize, complain and condemn bank robbers. They always attempt to blame, investigate and scapegoat someone else, in this case bank robberies, when Congress is the true villain of ineptness for constantly blocking and obstructing every effort for us to become more productive and less dependent on a paycheck.
Do those now in Congress really think Middle America's voters are so gullible that they will believe that its latest best and brightest answer to increasing our supply of oil and gas is to slap a 25% windfall penalty tax on oil companies and remove all other incentives for oil companies to drill and explore for oil? They should know that Middle America would gladly pay those tax dollars and let the oil companies off the hook.
The right time to release oil from, or stop adding to, our Strategic Petroleum Reserve is not now. That will do everything to increase our ongoing oil supply needs and will have cosmic affect on oil prices while decreasing our national security risks as it has been shown to do in the past.
Only after we first announce to the world a bold new change in our policy by proclaiming that we intend to begin drilling in ANWR (Arizona's Nim Witted Retard) and selected outer sea areas (Sea of Tranquility), plus adopt new conservation programs (Like the liberals always propose), will the release of oil from our reserves have a major impact on breaking the price of oil even higher.
If our congressional leadership can't muster the courage to begin reversing past mistakes now and allow our companies to drill in ANWR SADAT and off-limits offshore areas around pre teens, and build essential jelly canneries and safe nuclear power plants that keep injuring people, what will an even-more-discredited Congress do in 2009, 2010 and 2011, when millions of new city dwellers in China and India will be driving the cars their countries are now producing at 58 MPG, thereby materially decreasing their already huge demand for oil and gas?
It's wake-up time for America. Maybe we should investigate the blame-throwing investigators in Congress for not investigating the Commander in Chimp and not allowing US citizens to rob banks legally.
Interesting... :D:D
N4VGB
05-13-2008, 04:04 PM
Smoking more of that wacky weed again?
The Honda FCX does NOT burn hydrogen in the way that your internal combustion engine does.
Do some research before you look like more of a fool again, Jethro.
Doesn't seem to matter, last I heard it's now only on a lease program for a couple of Southern CA dealers. GM has had the same concept car for a long time with no plans to release it anytime soon.
All talk and no affordable vehicle that you can actually buy, BIG DEAL.
I don't think I'll live long enough to see one of these "green vehicles" that I can hook my boat, tractor or horse trailer behind? They're all dinky little "commuter vehicles" and I don't commute. :rolleyes::D:p
N2RJ Do some research before you look like more of a fool again, Jethro.
Jethro Doesn't seem to matter, last I heard...
I agree. There is really nothing that can ever help.
Another issue with all the alternative fuel vehicles, hybrids etc is 90% of them are just plain BUTT UGLY.
Until the car companies quit making them look goofy, they won't sell no matter what the price is.
Another issue with all the alternative fuel vehicles, hybrids etc is 90% of them are just plain BUTT UGLY.
Until the car companies quit making them look goofy, they won't sell no matter what the price is.
So right. There's no ferding way I'll ever buy an ugly car. I'll stick to my sleek Acura gas guzzler.
N4VGB
05-13-2008, 04:49 PM
Here's a flash for you guys that don't think your federal gov has been spending enough money on alternative vehicles. My area alone has sucked up hundreds of millions of your tax dollars for 30 years now in this venture! We even built you a very nice race track to run these things around for years! Let you provide our downtown area with electric bus transportation!
We are hard at work here for your common good. TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority), UTC (University of Tennessee at Chattanooga) and ATTI (Advanced Transportation Technology Institution) are laboring mightily for your salvation. Give us a few hundred million more, maybe a few billion or so, and another 30 years and we might have something for you then.
:D:D:D:D:D:D
So right. There's no ferding way I'll ever buy an ugly car. I'll stick to my sleek Acura gas guzzler.
Don't blame you, I would too!!!!! :):)
So right. There's no ferding way I'll ever buy an ugly car. I'll stick to my sleek Acura gas guzzler.
Yeah don't you hate them ugly cars?
http://www.fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/wp-content/uploads/tesla-roadster-at-pacific.jpg
http://www.speedsportlife.com/photopost/data/691/2006_Civic_Hybrid_02.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/alternativefuels/1/7/y/2/-/-/07_Accord_Hybrid.jpg
Even the cab drivers have been driving them ugly cars:
http://image.motortrend.com/f/green/hybrid-taxis-i-get-that/8444761+cr1+re0+ar1/ford-escape-hybrid-taxi.jpg
Yeah don't you hate them ugly cars?
http://www.fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/wp-content/uploads/tesla-roadster-at-pacific.jpg
http://www.speedsportlife.com/photopost/data/691/2006_Civic_Hybrid_02.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/alternativefuels/1/7/y/2/-/-/07_Accord_Hybrid.jpg
Even the cab drivers have been driving them ugly cars:
http://image.motortrend.com/f/green/hybrid-taxis-i-get-that/8444761+cr1+re0+ar1/ford-escape-hybrid-taxi.jpg
I was thinking more along these lines:
W8EJO
05-14-2008, 06:21 PM
Latest potent biofuel made from Sweet sorghum sap
Ethanol made from the stalk's juice has four times the energy yield of the corn-based ethanol
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_re_us/farm_scene_sweet_sorghum_ethanol
N4VGB
05-14-2008, 06:32 PM
Latest potent biofuel made from Sweet sorghum sap
Ethanol made from the stalk's juice has four times the energy yield of the corn-based ethanol
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_re_us/farm_scene_sweet_sorghum_ethanol
Wait just a !@#$%^ minute now! This is getting close to my heart! Better stock up fast on my favorite sorghum syrup before Al converts all the Southern farmers to producing his biofuel garbage. I knew Gore was going to goof and make this a personal thing between he & I sooner or later, now the gloves are off, this is war! Starving the poor of the world is one thing, but taking my sorghum syrup away is quite another. :(
This is my favorite. Small, easy to park, 22mpg, I think I'll go take a look at one tomorrow.
http://i29.tinypic.com/zy0cw.jpg
N4VGB
05-15-2008, 12:18 AM
This is my favorite. Small, easy to park, 22mpg, I think I'll go take a look at one tomorrow.
I heartily endorse your choice, but for you alone. :)
I heartily endorse your choice, but for you alone. :)
Thanks Dilmus. If I get it, I think red would look better. In fact, I think I'll name it after you. Dilmus Jr.
:D:D
N4VGB
05-15-2008, 01:51 AM
Thanks Dilmus. If I get it, I think red would look better. In fact, I think I'll name it after you. Dilmus Jr.
:D:D
It's perfect for the big hat man. Folds like a cheap beer can in a collision, airbags won't operate at anything less than impact levels approaching those that cause brain stem separation. Know all about the KIA Sorento, my son died in one last year. Low speed rollover and the roof folded laterally from the passenger side to the driver's side. They don't test for that in those U.S. government tests, ya know? Not required! I really like the KIA designed side impact airbags, ya have to hit the sensor at the base of the door post for it to operate, no other spot of impact will operate them! Ours had the radiator wrapped around the engine but the front airbags didn't operate either!? The owners manual even explains it all, but it was a new vehicle and we hadn't got that far in the reading of it when the fatal accident happened. All 3 airbag sensors placed and set to a sensitivity level to pass the required U.S. government tests only. 5 Star Safety rating is a bad joke! Safety engineered to a single minded purpose, to pass the required tests only, nothing more.
Keep looking.
My apologies if my post caused you any pain. Please accept my condolences for the untimely passing of your son.
W8EJO
05-15-2008, 03:08 PM
Pickens' Panhandle wind project to order 667 turbines
Associated Press
HARTFORD, Conn. — A renewable energy company founded by billionaire Boone Pickens said today it's buying 667 wind turbines from General Electric to start what it expects will be the world's largest wind energy project in the Texas Panhandle.
Full Story:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/energy/5781966.html
I heartily endorse your choice, but for you alone. :)
You recommend to John the same vehicle that you recommended to your son?
Gawd, you must really hate John.
N4VGB
05-15-2008, 05:14 PM
My apologies if my post caused you any pain. Please accept my condolences for the untimely passing of your son.
No, no, believe me the sight of a KIA Sorento doesn't upset me. It's just not the vehicle KIA claims it to be, my advice is still to keep looking!!!
N4VGB
05-15-2008, 05:15 PM
You recommend to John the same vehicle that you recommended to your son?
Gawd, you must really hate John.
Still can't read and comprehend without putting you own spin on things can ya? Truly pitiful. :rolleyes:
N4VGB
05-15-2008, 06:24 PM
Pickens' Panhandle wind project to order 667 turbines
Associated Press
HARTFORD, Conn. — A renewable energy company founded by billionaire Boone Pickens said today it's buying 667 wind turbines from General Electric to start what it expects will be the world's largest wind energy project in the Texas Panhandle.
Full Story:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/energy/5781966.html
Seems like the perfect place for wind power, the wind does seem to blow constantly there. :)
Seems like the perfect place for wind power, the wind does seem to blow constantly there. :)
I sure wish they'd come up to Oklahoma! I'd be happy to lease them some space, as long as I could put antennas on top.
W8EJO
05-22-2008, 12:12 PM
Oil's perfect storm may blow over
By Ambrose Evans Pritchard
Last Updated: 7:50am BST 22/05/2008
The forces behind the meteoric price rise this spring are slowly receding. Nigeria has boosted output by 200,000 barrels a day (BPD) this month, making up most of the shortfall caused by rebel attacks on pipelines in April.
Full story:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/05/22/ccoil122.xml