View Full Version : And The News On Gas Prices Just Keep Getting Worse
Maybe someone in Washington will uncover the "common sense" plan that was going to be proposed by the Democrats almost 2 years ago. Seriously, this is so big of a problem that no one can get their arms around it.
By Dan Dorfman
http://www2.nysun.com/article/75363
73
George
K3UD
KP3FT
04-28-2008, 07:25 PM
Maybe someone in Washington will uncover the "common sense" plan that was going to be proposed by the Democrats almost 2 years ago. Seriously, this is so big of a problem that no one can get their arms around it.
By Dan Dorfman
http://www2.nysun.com/article/75363
73
George
K3UD
Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything that can be done. A "common sense" plan should have been implemented decades ago right after we saw the consequences of the first oil crisis.
N4VGB
04-28-2008, 07:34 PM
Pelosi and the Dems can't institute their plan now, it might make Bush look good. Gotta wait for Hillary or Obama. Yeah, hold your breathe on that one, no matter who's in the White House. ;)
Pelosi and the Dems can't institute their plan now, it might make Bush look good. Gotta wait for Hillary or Obama. Yeah, hold your breathe on that one, no matter who's in the White House. ;)
So right you are... these dems will never give an inch for the next year.
Want prices to come down? Reduce demand and prices by driving less. Tell the Feds, through your congressmen, to reduce or remove federal fuel taxes and slow the printing of money.
Citizens do have some amount of control; make a statement by seizing it.
Pelosi and the Dems can't institute their plan now, it might make Bush look good. Gotta wait for Hillary or Obama. Yeah, hold your breathe on that one, no matter who's in the White House. ;)
Their common sense plan is to treat gas like guns. Ban them both.
Their theory is people will cry a bit but get use to walking. And just like anything else, the rich will be able to do what they want anyway.
In the words of History of the World Part I: Screw the Poor.
KG6OPR
04-28-2008, 10:09 PM
:eek:Their common sense plan is to treat gas like guns. Ban them both.
Their theory is people will cry a bit but get use to walking. And just like anything else, the rich will be able to do what they want anyway.
In the words of History of the World Part I: Screw the Poor.
In the words of History of the World Part I: It's Good To Be The King! Oh Piss Boy![QUOTE]
Want prices to come down? Reduce demand and prices by driving less. Tell the Feds, through your congressmen, to reduce or remove federal fuel taxes and slow the printing of money.
Citizens do have some amount of control; make a statement by seizing it.
I like your plan. I'd like to see the silverado parked up. Less congestion on the roads.
N4VGB
04-29-2008, 10:23 AM
Want prices to come down? Reduce demand and prices by driving less.
We took part in a plan like that once. Gas prices went up due to "reduced demand". oy vey! I just pay the toll at the pump now and give it little thought, reduces the stress level. :)
k3roj
04-29-2008, 04:16 PM
Field Day will become expensive for many hams this year, not only for vehicle gas but generator expenses. Have noticed a decline already in VHF/UHF roaming operations since many would drive several hundred miles to make and give new grid multipliers.
kc9jwa
04-29-2008, 04:55 PM
I defintally believe it, its bout 4 bucks now for gas, give 3years it be 7 till 10 bucks. Soon you would drive half way to your destination , and park, walk the rest to save gas, its a sad world.:D
W1GUH
04-30-2008, 01:48 AM
BP and Shell post big profits in era of record oil prices (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080429/earns_oil.html)
"We don't understand the oil price at this stage," he said. "The fundamentals will not justify an oil price as we see it at the moment."
Shell's earnings from oil production rose 52 percent to $5.14 billion (3.3 billion euros), due almost entirely to the price increases. The company said combined production of gas and oil equivalents increased by less than 1 percent to 3.4 million barrels per day, as a 9 percent rise in gas production outweighed a 6 percent fall in oil production.
Stripping out the impact of oil inventories that have risen in value, refining profits would have fallen 20 percent, Shell said.
Are you dizzy from the spin?
Freaqin' crooks.
K8ERV
04-30-2008, 02:00 AM
Seems to me like it is a world problem, just the U.S. can't do a lot about it.
TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
W4MAJ
04-30-2008, 02:13 AM
Want prices to come down? Reduce demand and prices by driving less. Tell the Feds, through your congressmen, to reduce or remove federal fuel taxes and slow the printing of money.
That idea sounds good, but reducing the price of gasoline by less than a quarter a gallon amounts to little more than "feel good legislation". Gas at $3.30 is just as painful as $3.50.
I hope they don't remove the gasoline tax. They'll surely make up for it by raising property taxes or sales taxes, or heaven forbid, income taxes.
Besides, that's only a short term fix.
We need real alternative energy, and we need to stop wasting energy.
W1GUH
04-30-2008, 03:01 AM
But...but....how are they gonna make up for the loss of self-worth to the people who have to get out of their monstrosities? An American's car is their identity. Without it they realize they're not worth a hill of beans. Can you imagine convincing some person who LOVES to take his/her BA SUV or pickup out on weekends to destroy some pristine place to drive a "green" car?
Ha! Sure. And don't forget all the self-important soccer moms who just have to have the "safety" of their HUGE SUV to drive to the strip-mall.
Americans conserve energy? That's a funny joke. Best we just waste all we can, use up the oil, start speaking Chinese and be done with all this BS.
W4DFW
04-30-2008, 05:18 AM
I love my BIG SUV! You're just jealous 'cuz you can't afford one nor the gas.
I'll be happy to give you the keys anytime.
................Bob
k4kyv
04-30-2008, 05:27 AM
I remember the last oil "crisis" in 1974 and the contrived shortage. While motorists waited in gas lines to fill up, tankers full of crude oil were anchored off shore waiting for additional price rise and a go-ahead to deliver their load to refineries.
But...but....how are they gonna make up for the loss of self-worth to the people who have to get out of their monstrosities? An American's car is their identity. Without it they realize they're not worth a hill of beans. Can you imagine convincing some person who LOVES to take his/her BA SUV or pickup out on weekends to destroy some pristine place to drive a "green" car?
Ha! Sure. And don't forget all the self-important soccer moms who just have to have the "safety" of their HUGE SUV to drive to the strip-mall.
Americans conserve energy? That's a funny joke. Best we just waste all we can, use up the oil, start speaking Chinese and be done with all this BS.
Little Ones, those itty-bitty "green" machines don't wade through snow too well in Alaska. Their drivers & passengers don't survive the numerous head-on collisions with the the numerous larger trucks and 18-wheelers on Alaska's two-lane highways (we don't have interstate hwys here). Saw a head-on between a loaded F-250 extended cab and a Dodge Neon on the two-lane Seward Hwy last summer. The F-250 with three uninjured passengers "rolled" right over the Neon -- killing it's teenage drive immediately, yet only blowing the driver's side tires and suspension of the remaining upright, but in the ditch, F-250. I've got pictures if anyone is interested.
Moose tend to do a number to smaller vehicles, too. Yearly over 300 moose are hit on the stretch of the Glenn Hwy between my home and Anchorage -- 50 miles apart. 1000 lbs of meaty mass, 6 feet off the ground, tends to end up "rolling back" the roofs of smaller cars -- much like a sardine can. Needless to say, a person who cannot duck out of the way fast enough ends up eating fresh moose -- and are given a moose lap-dance. These animals can ruin your day. Trucks are much higher off the ground, affording some crumple zone protection.
This reminds me of a story of another Steve -- Steve Gregory, VK3OT. He and his lovely wife were participants in a teacher exchange program in the Mat-Su Valley, Alaska area in the late nineties. His wife hit a moose driving to school one winter day with a "little" Subaru. It cut short their "Alaskan Experience" by several months. Some may know or remember Steve as an interesting and famous 6M DX'er. I worked him on 6M in VK from my QTH on the Gulf Coast of MS with stacked yagis and ten watts -- two years in a row in the early nineties. I haven't worked him on 6M yet from Alaska, but plan to someday.
I still mandate driving less and reducing the demand for oil products. Whining about prices won't do any good.
Toodles.
n2ize
04-30-2008, 06:01 AM
But...but....how are they gonna make up for the loss of self-worth to the people who have to get out of their monstrosities? An American's car is their identity. Without it they realize they're not worth a hill of beans. Can you imagine convincing some person who LOVES to take his/her BA SUV or pickup out on weekends to destroy some pristine place to drive a "green" car?
Ha! Sure. And don't forget all the self-important soccer moms who just have to have the "safety" of their HUGE SUV to drive to the strip-mall.
Americans conserve energy? That's a funny joke. Best we just waste all we can, use up the oil, start speaking Chinese and be done with all this BS.
A lot of people are cutting back on driving. They are using their cars only for nessesary driving such as too and from work. Unfortunately rising prices mean more money spent on gas in order to accomplish that nessesary driving. That means people will have to cut back on other things, perhaps less dining out, perhaps a cheaper cable TV package, cheaper food, less home heating in winter and less air conditioning in summer.
I am fortunate to live an an area where a car is not a necessity. Different forms of public transport are readily available. And I work so close to home. I can hop a cab, bus or subway be at work in minutes, or hop a train and be visiting my parents within a short half hour. Not having to spend large amounts of money on gas means I have that much left over for personal enjoyment, to buy myself all sorts of new toys, and/or to save and invest. Life is good when you don;t need to buy gas.
N4VGB
04-30-2008, 07:09 AM
But...but....how are they gonna make up for the loss of self-worth to the people who have to get out of their monstrosities?
Americans conserve energy? That's a funny joke. Best we just waste all we can, use up the oil, start speaking Chinese and be done with all this BS.
That's the spirit, I'm not parking my pickups. Gas goes to $10-15 per gallon, I won't miss a beat.
Forget the Chinese, too many dialects. I'll just nod my head at every order issued and try to keep up with the other slaves. :):):)
The answer to this "crisis" is right under our feet within the boundaries of the USA. It's called opening up additional land for oil drilling. Experts have found that between Alaska and other states (like So.Dakota) there is enough crude to meet the fuel needs of this nation for hundreds of years. Allowing that crude to be pumped and building additional refineries (we haven't built any in decades) would mitigate the current problem. Unfortunately that approach will never be supported by the elitist, liberal environmental nuts that currently control Congress. Even if that approach were approved today it would be dozens of years before the infrastructure needed to capture the "liquid gold" beneath our feet could be built. This is something we could/should have done 30-40 years ago.
Ethanol is not only not the answer it is part of the problem. In fact it is contributing to numerous other problems such as rising food costs, food shortages, etc. God gave us fossil fuels (the "natural" form of energy). The liberals have, once again, screwed up nature by playing God.
k8wpj
04-30-2008, 04:14 PM
Want prices to come down? Reduce demand and prices by driving less. Tell the Feds, through your congressmen, to reduce or remove federal fuel taxes and slow the printing of money.
Citizens do have some amount of control; make a statement by seizing it.
You do realize that while the US is a major consumer of the world's energy, they are by far not the only ones that do make use of it...
Could it be that the growing economies of China, Japan, Thaiwan, and Russia are actually increasing the demand for oil? Further, while there is a growing push on in the US and UK to 'think green' and conserve, the same mentality is not shared by those in the growth markets I mentioned...
So how is it conserving oil in the US is gonna actually result in any savings of oil in the overall world picture? For the price of oil to change any, you would need to modify the behavior of the users in up and coming markets as well, before anything changes, and even then there's a political aspect to consider...
Bush, Cheney, et al, are longtime oil supporters that make big bucks from their investments... You honestly expect them to favor any changes that would hurt investments they may have made personally...?
Not gonna happen...
KB9YCO
04-30-2008, 04:25 PM
From what I've read one of the main problems with fuel prices in this country is not just the rise in barrel prices, it's the weakening US dollar. Also not a good sign of things to come in the immediate future. I'm not looking forward to seeing how the next year or so are going to be for the overall financial health of this country, not to mention it's reach in the world market and that impact.
KP3FT
04-30-2008, 05:07 PM
The answer to this "crisis" is right under our feet within the boundaries of the USA. It's called opening up additional land for oil drilling. Experts have found that between Alaska and other states (like So.Dakota) there is enough crude to meet the fuel needs of this nation for hundreds of years. Allowing that crude to be pumped and building additional refineries (we haven't built any in decades) would mitigate the current problem. Unfortunately that approach will never be supported by the elitist, liberal environmental nuts that currently control Congress. Even if that approach were approved today it would be dozens of years before the infrastructure needed to capture the "liquid gold" beneath our feet could be built. This is something we could/should have done 30-40 years ago.
Ethanol is not only not the answer it is part of the problem. In fact it is contributing to numerous other problems such as rising food costs, food shortages, etc. God gave us fossil fuels (the "natural" form of energy). The liberals have, once again, screwed up nature by playing God.
I agree. We should poke our country all over the place with oil drills like a pin-cushion, seriously. I never could figure out why they didn't do this long ago, if the oil is there. Also, alternative energy should have been pursued, starting long ago and continuously with the same fervor we see now. We didn't prepare ourselves in the past, now we are paying for it. Self-reliance is just common sense.
I remember the last oil "crisis" in 1974 and the contrived shortage. While motorists waited in gas lines to fill up, tankers full of crude oil were anchored off shore waiting for additional price rise and a go-ahead to deliver their load to refineries.
I well remember the time. We had rationing of gas on the east coast. At first you could buy $5.00 worth on any given day and then it became $2.50. Then we had to go to odd and even days which meant that you could only buy gas 3 times a week as there was no gas available on Sunday. (One of Nixon's executive orders).
What days you could by gas depended on the last digit on your license plate. If you had an even number you could get gas on Monday's Wednesday's and Friday's. If you had an odd number you could get it on Tuesdays, Thursday's and Friday's. The gas lines were terrible in the Philadelphia area and there were fights and some people actually got killed in the 'Gas Rage'.
You could beat the system in a number of ways. The easiest way was to bribe the gas station owner to meet you at his station well after dark and you could buy what you want. A $20 bill to the owner usually took care of it. You could also "acquire" another license plate that you put on your car so you could spend $2.50 or $5.00 every day.
I had just started a new job and my first assignment was to drive my boss's car around town and keep putting in the gas allotment at 4 - 5 stations. I could spend whole afternoons doing it. People also kept their tanks full. I also remember the oil tankers sitting off Delaware Bay in the Philadelphia refining and storage district. It was common knowledge that the tankers were waiting until oil reached a certain price point, then they would unload.
At the time I had an Olds Delta 88 with the 454 V8. It was a real guzzler and I lived about 25 miles from where I worked. The alternative was to purchase a used 200CC Yamaha motorcycle. It was great on gas but a pain when it rained or when the State Police routinely pulled me over to check on my cycle permit and insurance card. Getting splattered by bugs and running into rain was not fun. I ended up giving the bike away.
At least we don't have rationing, although it seems like people are doing their own rationing due to the cost.
73
George
K3UD
The answer to this "crisis" is right under our feet within the boundaries of the USA. It's called opening up additional land for oil drilling. Experts have found that between Alaska and other states (like So.Dakota) there is enough crude to meet the fuel needs of this nation for hundreds of years. Allowing that crude to be pumped and building additional refineries (we haven't built any in decades) would mitigate the current problem. Unfortunately that approach will never be supported by the elitist, liberal environmental nuts that currently control Congress. Even if that approach were approved today it would be dozens of years before the infrastructure needed to capture the "liquid gold" beneath our feet could be built. This is something we could/should have done 30-40 years ago.
Ethanol is not only not the answer it is part of the problem. In fact it is contributing to numerous other problems such as rising food costs, food shortages, etc. God gave us fossil fuels (the "natural" form of energy). The liberals have, once again, screwed up nature by playing God.
Yes, let's drill our own backyard... we have the oil. Ah, but the Greenies won't let it happen.
They will lose the battle in the end -- the People won't stand for their untenable antics much longer. Just wait and see...
I remember the last oil "crisis" in 1974 and the contrived shortage. While motorists waited in gas lines to fill up, tankers full of crude oil were anchored off shore waiting for additional price rise and a go-ahead to deliver their load to refineries.
I remember that too.
My dad took me up to the Marin headlands with a telescope and some binos and we waited till the sun went down.
You could see about 30 tankers just lined up outside the limit so the oil companies could honestly claim they didn't have the oil here in the country.
The numbers grew everyday right along with the price of gas.
You know that ended within a couple days after that guy took and published IR photos of the full tanks that were supposedly empty over in the Richmond facility.
Could it be that the growing economies of China, Japan, Thaiwan, and Russia are actually increasing the demand for oil?
Sure they are, but it's not a supply problem. It's a spot trader problem, the traders are twitchy and out of control (witness the grain prices right now even though there is no real shortage) and have jacked up the spot price on crude. That is not the price the refineries have paid though, it's just the price for an extra few barrels outside the regular orders. But the refiners aren't going to tell you that. They are taking advantage of your lack of understanding, lying about what it really costs them and jacking up the price as high as the market will bear (let's here a big hoorah for free market :rolleyes:) and raking it in.
In combination with the deflated dollar it looks worse than it really is for the refiners and they know it.
For you it IS worse.
N4VGB
04-30-2008, 09:29 PM
For you it IS worse.
It could be worse, I could be paying the British price for petrol! :)
It could be worse, I could be paying the British price for petrol! :)
That's tax, and it pays for the roads and health care and other things here.
You are just giving it to the oil execs.
I'd rather be paying for it here personally. At least it benefits me and my family in the end.
N4VGB
04-30-2008, 10:09 PM
That's tax, and it pays for the roads and health care and other things here.
You are just giving it to the oil execs.
I'd rather be paying for it here personally. At least it benefits me and my family in the end.
The tax on all the crude products in the U.S. starts as it gets pumped from the ground or delivered in port, lots more than just the "road tax" and "sales taxes" paid at the pump. The U.S. gov. is making a killing in increased revenue from the increase in crude oil prices, no problem for them.
I hear Nancy Pelosi keeps the Democrat's secret plan to lower prices in the most secure place in the world. Neatly folded in her underwear, a place no other human will dare to tread! :D
W4HAY
04-30-2008, 11:51 PM
...a place no other human will dare to tread!
Not even Janet Reno?
*****
LINK! (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/cartoons/toon043008.gif)
N4VGB
05-01-2008, 12:52 AM
Not even Janet Reno?
*****
LINK! (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/cartoons/toon043008.gif)
I won't touch that first proposition! :)
The cartoon is hilarious though! :D
Reno... Waco... what's the diff?
She's just as frigid as Shrillery... Bill really knew how to pick 'em.
Too many imports... not enough domestic production.
Drill, drill, drill -- right here in this country. Meet demand by increasing production and reducing consumption.
100 Billion barrels of "untouched" oil and gas exists right here in this country, and is subject to a 30-year moratorium.
Blame your patronizing federal government and the idiotic Liberals and their Enviro-Nazi friends. Environmentalists, not oil companies prevent drilling in ANWR, fight drilling in the Chukchi and Beaufort Sea, and block drilling off Florida's coast. These policies limit U.S. supply and force us to import more than 12 million barrels of oil a day. Environmentalists, not oil companies, fight to block the building of U.S. refineries. Environmentalists also lead the charge against the most efficient and cheap energy available: nuclear power. The government holds the keys to ANWR and the other huge deposits right here in America. This "not in my backyard", "it's my way or the highway", wrong-headed, environmentalism won't hold for long.
Alaskans Welcome Shell to Alaska:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/30/shell.qa/
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/30/shell.qa/#cnnSTCVideo
Alaskans Welcome and Encourage the Development of a North Slope to Canada to Lower-48 Natural Gas Pipeline:
http://recent-business-news.com/data/articles_b15/idb2008.04.09.07.10.24.html
http://www.adn.com/money/industries/oil/pipeline/story/217978.html
The tax on all the crude products in the U.S. starts as it gets pumped from the ground or delivered in port, lots more than just the "road tax" and "sales taxes" paid at the pump. The U.S. gov. is making a killing in increased revenue from the increase in crude oil prices, no problem for them.
I hear Nancy Pelosi keeps the Democrat's secret plan to lower prices in the most secure place in the world. Neatly folded in her underwear, a place no other human will dare to tread! :D
What, all 27 cents per gallon of it?
That goes a long way I bet. :rolleyes:
N4VGB
05-01-2008, 02:42 PM
What, all 27 cents per gallon of it?
That goes a long way I bet. :rolleyes:
Last time I looked it was something like 2?% not cents, makes a big difference ya know? :p
Last time I looked it was something like 2?% not cents, makes a big difference ya know? :p
For the first quarter of 2008, the average state gasoline tax is 28.6 cents per gallon, plus 18.4 cents per gallon federal tax making the total 47 cents per gallon. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax)
Big difference, right.
That's 12.4% of the current average price.
The gas stations make a measely 3% and the rest goes to the refiners.
Aren't tired of being wrong all the time yet?
N4VGB
05-01-2008, 05:02 PM
For the first quarter of 2008, the average state gasoline tax is 28.6 cents per gallon, plus 18.4 cents per gallon federal tax making the total 47 cents per gallon. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax)
Big difference, right.
Aren't tired of being wrong all the time yet?
Try to concentrate Todd, you're just addressing gasoline alone. You are aware that the stuff comes from crude oil? Keep up Todd, taxation starts at the point of it being pumped out of the ground in the U.S. or when the tanker hits port in the U.S. in the case of imported crude. :cool:
Try to concentrate Todd, you're just addressing gasoline alone. You are aware that the stuff comes from crude oil? Keep up Todd, taxation starts at the point of it being pumped out of the ground in the U.S. or when the tanker hits port in the U.S. in the case of imported crude. :cool:
That was included in the tax numbers, you got different? Show it.
N4VGB
05-01-2008, 05:23 PM
That was included in the tax numbers, you got different? Show it.
Strange, that's about what's posted on the pumps here and only applies to the finished product of gasoline being sold. :p
Strange, that's about what's posted on the pumps here and only applies to the finished product of gasoline being sold. :p
Try again Jethro, where's your back up?
Provide the tax numbers.
N4VGB
05-01-2008, 05:35 PM
Try again Jethro, where's your back up?
Provide the tax numbers.
My backup is in the ankle holster. :p
My backup is in the ankle holster. :p
Tax numbers Jethro, tax numbers.
I know it's hard to stay focused, but at least try.
You make assertions, back them up.
N4VGB
05-01-2008, 05:50 PM
Tax numbers Jethro, tax numbers.
I know it's hard to stay focused, but at least try.
You make assertions, back them up.
But, but you're a research expert and I'm doing other things right now, work on it Todd. You really believe a tanker full of imported crude pays no tariffs or taxes when it unloads? :D:D:D
But, but you're a research expert and I'm doing other things right now, work on it Todd. You really believe a tanker full of imported crude pays no tariffs or taxes when it unloads? :D:D:D
I'm not jumping Jethro, your turn.
Oh, I see. You just talk out your neck then accuse others of doing the same.
You were lying, weren't you? Not surprising.