3 NYPD detectives acquitted in groom slaying

[kg4kww]

Groom to be took 50 rounds from the cops.

NEW YORK - They waited for hours, singing spirituals, praying and chanting for justice. In a flash, the crowd gathered outside a Queens courthouse Friday erupted in anger and grief.

Men cursed and shouted. Women wailed and covered their faces. "Oh, no! No!" they yelled as word spread that three police officers had been cleared of all charges in the 50-bullet shooting that took Sean Bell's life on his wedding day in 2006.

Trent Benefield, a friend of Bell's who was wounded in the hail of gunfire, staggered down the courthouse steps with a look of angry disbelief on his face, a friend's arms tightly wrapped around his shoulders.

Civil rights leaders demanded a federal investigation, but supporters of the officers said justice had been served.

"How do I spell relief? N-O-T G-U-I-L-T-Y," said Michael Palladino, president of the Detectives Endowment Association, a police union.

Detective Michael Oliver, who fired 31 of the shots, wept at the defense table, while the mother of victim Sean Bell cried in the packed courtroom. Shouts of "Murderers! Murderers!" and "KKK!" rang out in front of the building.

full story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24305660/)

[kg4kww]

Wow!! no reponses, this is a first. :D

Afraid of being called a racisit?

[N4VGB]

Not afraid of being called anything. Just not familiar with the case except for the hoopla in the news. I would have had to sit in the courtroom to know what evidence was presented and how well it was presented.

All the yack, yack, yack means nothing to me or a judge. :)

[kc9jwa]

Still going on in this day, sad. You cant trust the law anymore im not saying im sure they did it, but the cops you have seen on videos or tv, thats what im am takin about. All you do today is do what you can be careful, mind yuor own buissness, i mainly do becouse i have a husband i love, and a few tohers otherwsie, i could care less i do what i want . Anyway this is sad, no reason to ever put 5orounds in any person.

[N4VGB]

The number of rounds fired does indeed indicate a severe need for more time on the shooting range by NYC detectives. :cool:

[K3XR]

Still going on in this day, sad. You cant trust the law anymore im not saying im sure they did it, but the cops you have seen on videos or tv, thats what im am takin about. All you do today is do what you can be careful, mind yuor own buissness, i mainly do becouse i have a husband i love, and a few tohers otherwsie, i could care less i do what i want . Anyway this is sad, no reason to ever put 5orounds in any person.


If you ever spent time on a police firing range you would know they are trained to empty their weapons when firing at a suspect. Would be real bright to fire one or two rounds and have the suspect continue firing at you, think about it. You only shoot to kill, because any other outcome can not be assured. One or 50 it makes no difference.

[KV1M]

Not afraid of being called anything. Just not familiar with the case except for the hoopla in the news. I would have had to sit in the courtroom to know what evidence was presented and how well it was presented.

All the yack, yack, yack means nothing to me or a judge. :)

That's a first!
You are so good at tossing out meaningless noise on subjects you know nothing about I would have figured this would be a natural thread for you to exercise your abilities on.

[N2RJ]

If you ever spent time on a police firing range you would know they are trained to empty their weapons when firing at a suspect. Would be real bright to fire one or two rounds and have the suspect continue firing at you, think about it. You only shoot to kill, because any other outcome can not be assured. One or 50 it makes no difference.

The guy was unarmed.

[N4VGB]

That's a first!
You are so good at tossing out meaningless noise on subjects you know nothing about I would have figured this would be a natural thread for you to exercise your abilities on.

Fill me in on the whole affair, old all knowing and seeing one! :D

[N4VGB]

The guy was unarmed.

An automobile is a very good weapon and somebody bashed the cops van with one in this deal? :confused:

[kc9jwa]

If you ever spent time on a police firing range you would know they are trained to empty their weapons when firing at a suspect. Would be real bright to fire one or two rounds and have the suspect continue firing at you, think about it. You only shoot to kill, because any other outcome can not be assured. One or 50 it makes no difference.
True, sorry bout that, no i never been trained on cop range, i would love to have become a cop and learn but, i having ahusband and few other family members stops me from doing that kind of career. I just thought they knew where to shoot the guy to kill, i would go for a heart, or the head, if i had to defend myself as i am now just a human. But i can see why they use so many.:D:)

[N2RJ]

An automobile is a very good weapon and somebody bashed the cops van with one in this deal? :confused:

Nice try, but he was still unarmed.

[N4VGB]

Nice try, but he was still unarmed.

No "try" involved. If I was attacked with an automobile then I would respond with gun fire also. I would hope that only 1-2 rounds would be needed.

We had the very same incident locally, about 4-5 years ago. Off duty cop at a local gas station approached a car, identified himself and the driver attempted to run over him. 2 shots fired and the driver was dead. Big hoopla in the local news and also big racially inspired lawsuit. Luckily the gas station was video equipped.

So the cop is fired (chicken manure local politicians) but cleared in court of any criminal charges and the relatives civil action fizzles also. Hard to beat the truth of the video tape.

Cop sues and is reinstated with full back pay. The only losers in the deal were the local taxpayers, who footed the bill for all this mess.

[N2RJ]

No "try" involved. If I was attacked with an automobile then I would respond with gun fire also. I would hope that only 1-2 rounds would be needed.

We had the very same incident locally, about 4-5 years ago. Off duty cop at a local gas station approached a car, identified himself and the driver attempted to run over him. 2 shots fired and the driver was dead. Big hoopla in the local news and also big racially inspired lawsuit. Luckily the gas station was video equipped.

The cops in this incident never identified themselves. The only people claiming that they ID'ed themselves were the cops themselves, because their ass was in the sling.

The Governor, mayor and everyone else agreed they used excessive force.

Only people like you who obviously carry the wild west mindset of "shoot first, ask questions later" disagree.

I'd rather take the mayor's word over yours.

[N4VGB]

The cops in this incident never identified themselves. The only people claiming that they ID'ed themselves were the cops themselves, because their ass was in the sling.

The Governor, mayor and everyone else agreed they used excessive force.

Only people like you who obviously carry the wild west mindset of "shoot first, ask questions later" disagree.

I'd rather take the mayor's word over yours.

I missed where the mayor & governor were present at the scene to make a judgement call!? :p:p:p

Sounds more like typical political BS based purely on the number of shots fired. Of course the number of shots fired does reflect badly on the NYPD handgun training program.

[w2amr]

Uncle Al will be looking for a camera to stand in front of pretty soon.

[n2ize]

The problem with this case it that there are many conflicting reports and nobody is ever going to know for certain exacly what happened other than the fact that an unarmed man was killed. Bell and his companions didn't exactly have a clean record. There are reports that claim that Bell and his companions may have been threatened and that the DT's didn't identify themselves as police and Bell may have thought that they were a rival group planning to attack them, giving reason why he fled rather than surrender. Whether it's true or not who knows. I can believe that Bell may not have realized they were cops.. I have personally seen plain clothed cops bust people in NYC on several occasions and never ID themselves as cops. On the other hand there is also a possibility he was being intentionally naive.Then there is the controversy of a 4th man who police belived to be armed. However, he seemed to materialze when it was convenient to place him at the scene. Originally the cops said nothing about him.

I don;t think anyone out here is qualified to play armchair detective and say who was right/wrong in this case. The only sure things were, an unarmed man was killed, the cops were supposedly investigating either drugs or the fact that the club may have been allowing prostitutes to operate from within the club. Maybe it's time to stop wasting valuable police time and money and lives of both suspects, police, and bystanders, over stupid worthless prohibition laws that don't work. They haven't worked in over 100 years and they won;t work over the next 100 years other than wasting time, money and lives.

[n2ize]

No "try" involved. If I was attacked with an automobile then I would respond with gun fire also. .

Actually I never heard anything to the effect that bell tried to attack the police with his vehicle. The cops supposedly did not identify as to whom they were and as Bell fled the scene his vehicle collided with a police van. I think there is a bit of a difference between deliberately attempting to run someone over and engaging in a collision. Civilian vehicles have collisions with police vehicles quite often. A collision doesn't constitute an attack.

As far as the cops emptying their guns into Bell , I belivee that is what cops are generally trained to do these days. You keep firing until you are certain the threat is extinguished.

[N4VGB]

Maybe it's time to stop wasting valuable police time and money and lives of both suspects, police, and bystanders, over stupid worthless prohibition laws that don't work. They haven't worked in over 100 years and they won;t work over the next 100 years other than wasting time, money and lives.



Hey I'm all for that idea. Legal drugs from the U.S. government only and an instant death penalty for all those found with illegal drugs. Budget balanced in short order from the proceeds. Of course the druggies should be precluded from owning or possessing firearms, voting or operating an automobile and holding certain employment. I really don't want to get on an airplane with a pilot that just snorted cocaine!!!

Sounds good to me.

[n2ize]

Hey I'm all for that idea. Legal drugs from the U.S. government only and an instant death penalty for all those found with illegal drugs. B


If you end drug prohibition it wouldn't be profitable to operate illegally. Much the same as bootleg hooch went out of style when alcohol prohibition was ended.


udget balanced in short order from the proceeds. Of course the druggies should be precluded from owning or possessing firearms, voting or operating an automobile and holding certain employment. I really don't want to get on an airplane with a pilot that just snorted cocaine!!!


It would have to be handled the same way we handle alcohol which actually can cause more impairment than most drugs. If you drive or do certain types of work while impaired you get in trouble. Voting ? That's another issue. We allow alcoholics and people who occasionally use alcohol to vote. We allow people with mental disorders and with low IQ levels to vote. And we allow people on prescription drugs to vote, drive, etc It's a tough call but most of the same laws applying to booze would simply be extended to all drugs that can cause impairment.

[W4DFW]

Nice try, but he was still unarmed.

You're joking, right??

Personally, I don't remember the part where the man quietly told the police he was unarmed while he attempted to ram the police with his vehicle, but will defer to those who know.

Simply put, what we have here is a complete failure of *respect*.

Respect for those police officers who daily put *their* lives on the line to protect the rest of us, and who *daily* come across those low-lives who can't even respect their own family, much less the police who are daily called to scenes of the carnage inflicted by those who seek to be judged "not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Therein lies the rub.

Just *whose's* character is in question here?

I was taught to respect the police. I could find no reason to think they were out to get me. That, in spite of the fact I'm apparently a "bitter," "typical white person" who prays to Jesus while cleaning his glock.

I've been stopped by some stupid police. I stayed cool, and all was well. I never once tried to run the cop down with my car. I tried to run once, putting the peddle to the medal to get away from a car that was tailgating me at dusk where I couldn't see the car for his lights.

Turned out he was a cop. I finally stopped when I hit 100 MPH and he turned on the blue lights. Dumb cop, dressed in gym shorts, stupidly trying to test me during his off-duty hours.

I didn't try to run him down with my car. Didn't want to get shot. And, I lived to tell about it.

So the "good" Rev'rund Sharpton is once again on his race baiting mission to drum up publicity for this "travesty" of justice.

If only the "good Rev'run" would spend a day, even a few minutes, in the inner city black community teaching respect for family and respect for authority, he'd have less need to spend time baiting the racists over tragedies like this one.

Which is exactly why he doesn't take the time to help the black community overcome this problem with authority, and it's a REAL problem!!

The good rev'run wouldn't have to spend so much time on the race-baitin' circuit, makin' money pretending to help those of his color, while the rest of us know he's the worst snake-oil salesman of all time, livin' the good life while those of his color die for naught.

Martin L. King, Jr. would not be proud.

..............Bob

[ad5mb]

I was taught to respect the police.

So was I, but experience has changed my mind.

[n2ize]

You're joking, right??

Personally, I don't remember the part where the man quietly told the police he was unarmed while he attempted to ram the police with his vehicle, but will defer to those who know.

Actually he didn't attempt to RAM the police. He collided with a police vehicle as he drove away. There is no clear indication that he deliberately rammed the police with intent to kill.


Simply put, what we have here is a complete failure of *respect*.
What we have here is a lack of understanding of the case on your part.


Respect for those police officers who daily put *their* lives on the line to protect the rest of us, and who *daily* come across those low-lives who can't even respect their own family, much less the police who are daily called to scenes of the carnage inflicted by those who seek to be judged "not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
There was no carnage here except with regards to the person that was shot. And carnage related to crime is not something that is owned by people who ask not to be judged by their skin colour. Apparently that is not well understood in 4 land.


Just *whose's* character is in question here?

I was taught to respect the police. I could find no reason to think they were out to get me. That, in spite of the fact I'm apparently a "bitter," "typical white person" who prays to Jesus while cleaning his glock.

I've been stopped by some stupid police. I stayed cool, and all was well. I never once tried to run the cop down with my car. I tried to run once, putting the peddle to the medal to get away from a car that was tailgating me at dusk where I couldn't see the car for his lights.

Turned out he was a cop. I finally stopped when I hit 100 MPH and he turned on the blue lights. Dumb cop, dressed in gym shorts, stupidly trying to test me during his off-duty hours.

I didn't try to run him down with my car. Didn't want to get shot. And, I lived to tell about it.

So the "good" Rev'rund Sharpton is once again on his race baiting mission to drum up publicity for this "travesty" of justice.


If only the "good Rev'run" would spend a day, even a few minutes, in the inner city black community teaching respect for family and respect for authority, he'd have less need to spend time baiting the racists over tragedies like this one.
Actually Sharpton does exactly that. He has devoted many hours of his time to preaching black empowerment and responsibility for family, for self. As far as respect for authority goes he certainly doesn't tell people to go and disrespect the law and get themselves shot by the cops. However respect is a two way street. If authority expects respect then it needs to gain that respect by showing respect for the community which it is supposed to serve.


Which is exactly why he doesn't take the time to help the black community overcome this problem with authority, and it's a REAL problem!!
And what is that problem ? To blindly respect authority and respect every rogue cop who has no respect for the community in which he serves. Respect comes from 2 sides.


The good rev'run wouldn't have to spend so much time on the race-baitin' circuit, makin' money pretending to help those of his color, while the rest of us know he's the worst snake-oil salesman of all time, livin' the good life while those of his color die for naught.

Martin L. King, Jr. would not be proud.

..............Bob
I see English and spelling is not your forte. I don't know what a "rev'run" is, I guess it's something you invented so it can behave however you wish it to. What I do know is that you understand next to nothing about this particular case. Nor are you aware of the vastly conflicting stories, the disappearance and sudden reappearance of a so called "4th person", the fact that there was an alleged threat made against Mr. Bell earlier that evening and then he is confronted and pursued by several guys who he may not have known were cops, combined with the fact that Mr. Bell and his friend didn;t have squeaky clean records either along with numerous complicating, confusing, and conflicting reports which surrounded this case. Maybe Bell had it coming to him and it was justified. And maybe it was a senseless slaughter. Nobody knows for certain and certainly not armchair experts as yourself.

[ac4r]

Mr. Bell and his friend didn;t have squeaky clean records either along with numerous complicating, confusing, and conflicting reports which surrounded this case. Maybe Bell had it coming to him and it was justified. And maybe it was a senseless slaughter. Nobody knows for certain and certainly not armchair experts as yourself.


Lets break out the violins for this fine citizen.

[n2ize]

Lets break out the violins for this fine citizen.

Uh oh !! Run for it !! It's the Angel of Death !!

[W4DFW]

Actually he didn't attempt to RAM the police. He collided with a police vehicle as he drove away. There is no clear indication that he deliberately rammed the police with intent to kill.

I can only think that it's Saturday night, and you're thinking this might be a skit on SNL. He rammed the police, but with no clear indication he had intent to kill.

Right.

Is that . . . NO, COULDN'T BE! . . . . ecstasy in your pipe???



Actually Sharpton does exactly that. He has devoted many hours of his time to preaching black empowerment and responsibility for family, for self. As far as respect for authority goes he certainly doesn't tell people to go and disrespect the law and get themselves shot by the cops. However respect is a two way street. If authority expects respect then it needs to gain that respect by showing respect for the community which it is supposed to serve.

I will leave it up to you to find why the Black community finds such inability to respect our police. Show some respect, and you just might get some back. The problem here is that the black on black crime is so rampant, so beyond "respect" for even themselves, that police do only what they can.

When you grow up in a society where 72% of children are born out of wedlock, where children are having children to be raised by their grandmothers, where men have no intention of being a father, problems are going to arise.

The good Rev'runds Sharpton and Jackson never address these issues, and these are the ones destroying the Black family.

And that, my friend, is very sad!!

[ac4r]

Uh oh !! Run for it !! It's the Angel of Death !!
Stand up time again ?

[n2ize]

I can only think that it's Saturday night, and you're thinking this might be a skit on SNL. He rammed the police, but with no clear indication he had intent to kill.

Right.

Is that . . . NO, COULDN'T BE! . . . . ecstasy in your pipe???

So brainiac. Everybody who collides with an unmarked police van intends to kill ?
All your showing is that you know nothing about what your talking about. Nothing new there.




I will leave it up to you to find why the Black community finds such inability to respect our police. Show some respect, and you just might get some back. The problem here is that the black on black crime is so rampant, so beyond "respect" for even themselves, that police do only what they can.
All you show is ignorance. Sean Bell wasn't in the commission of a crime nor did he disrespect the police when he was shot and killed. Amadou Diallo wasn't committing any crime or showing disrespect for the police when he was shot dead for standing in the hallway of the building he lived in clutching hiw own wallet. Tim Stansbury wasn't comitting any crime nor showing any disrespect for the cops when he was shot dead as he opened the door to the roof of his own building. Abner Loima wasn;t comitting and crime nor disrespecting the cops when he was dragtged off the street and into a police bathroom and has a plunger stuck where the sun don't shine Oh yeah man... thats real quality police behavior. I suppose you consider that par for the course.a ok way to treat people because of their skin color. Patrick Dorismond wasn't committing any crime nor disrespecting the cops when they walked up to him and started hassling him asking him where they can buy drugs. Then they shot and killed him. The list goes on and on. Keep on drinking the 4 land redneck Rush Limbaugh kool aid station. You wouldn't know respect if it came up and bit you on the backside.


When you grow up in a society where 72% of children are born out of wedlock, where children are having children to be raised by their grandmothers, where men have no intention of being a father, problems are going to arise.
And I don;t care what the problems are. Being born out of wedlock is not a crime. Being raised by a grandparent is not a crime. Thats no excuse for the repeated shooting of innocent unarmed civilians. It doesn;tmean thatyou shoot people first and ask questions later. People are not going to respect the cops if they are not giving respect to the community they serve. I'm sorry. Coming into a black neighborhood with an "I shoot em first and I'll get away with it" attitude just don't cut it. Sit down and get a clue.

[K3XR]

Funny Al, did you shut down LA when OJ was found not guily??

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080426/D909P8SG0.html

[N2RJ]

I missed where the mayor & governor were present at the scene to make a judgement call!? :p:p:p

No, but they are more knowledgeable about the PD than YOU to make a judgement call.

Do you seem to forget who runs the city and state?

Thankfully it's not an ignoramus like you.

[kc9jwa]

I dont agree with this mess, cops can do n owrong anymore, or use to, probably many got away with murder, rape, embezzling, god knows. I say mainly maybe they all thought letss hoot this guy make sure hes dead he dont come back like some monster in a horror movie.:mad:All i know is here cops dont come inles sur dying and bleeding, wich is bout to late. Otherwsie wher eare they the doughnut shop. Hey some cops i like got a few friends, some just dont care. I will handle my own situation inless the person of course is lying in my room dying then i go and call.

[ac4r]

Bell was such a fine citizen. Two arrests for selling drugs, and one arrest for firearms violations. Boo Hoo .

[n0ov]

Folks --- there is more to this story. There is no way in heck that amount of rounds are fired at two people unless there is a reason and racism is not it ---- too public, cops have too much to loose.

THINK!!!!!

[n2ize]

Bell was such a fine citizen. Two arrests for selling drugs, and one arrest for firearms violations. Boo Hoo .

Sorry, but thats irrelevant here. Bell was not selling drugs when he was killed. Nor was he armed. You must live in a rather convoluted world. I'd hate to be in your shoes.

[n2ize]

Folks --- there is more to this story. There is no way in heck that amount of rounds are fired at two people unless there is a reason and racism is not it ---- too public, cops have too much to loose.

THINK!!!!!

There is a lot to the story. Including a lot of controversy. Racism may not be a the prime motivation but it does play an implicit role in this case and countless others like it.. yet another unarmed black person has been shot and killed and whether it was justified or not (I tend to suspect it wasn't) many people are going to look at it and see it from the perspective of racism and class distinction.

Anyone who has followed the case closely is aware that it's impossible to make an armchair call.

[ac4r]

Sorry, but thats irrelevant here. Bell was not selling drugs when he was killed. Nor was he armed. You must live in a rather convoluted world. I'd hate to be in your shoes.


Nice try. The guy had a record and was a low life. End of story. One less thug to prey upon society.

[N2RJ]

Folks --- there is more to this story. There is no way in heck that amount of rounds are fired at two people unless there is a reason and racism is not it ---- too public, cops have too much to loose.

THINK!!!!!

By your logic, how can YOU make such an assumption without knowing all the facts?

Did we suddenly throw away the principle of innocence before being proven guilty?

[N2RJ]

Bell was such a fine citizen. Two arrests for selling drugs, and one arrest for firearms violations. Boo Hoo .

So someone who (by your definition) is not a "fine citizen" should be just gunned down on his wedding day?

Whatever happened to due process?

[KC7YPJ]

race has zero to do with the case, it's the standard bs charge brought up anytime a black person is killed, largely ignoreing the color of those doing the killing.

as allready stated it's impossible to armchair this case, you had to be there to form any relevant opinion.

the people involved were all known criminals, with past records of dealing drugs and weapons violations. people with previous dealings with police beit plain clothes or otherwise know exactly who there dealing with when officers try to stop them, identified or not, rival gang members don't try to stop you, they kill first ask questions later, these are simple undeniable truths.

Take into account the environment, your in a bad neighborhood, outside a dive stripjoint, frequented by known criminals. said criminals collide with your surveilance van when you try to detain them, ontop of this you believe one or more of them is armed, being sworn to protect and serve the law abiding public are you going to take cover and let a vehicle containing criminals who have displayed (either accidental or intentional) disregard for life by ramming or coliding with a vehicle drive away or are you going to treat it as the threat to life that it is (3000 pounds of steel makes a very good weapon) and react accordingly?
I will agree with the number of shots fired being well above what was needed in the situation.
I won't agree with the premise of "those poor innocent boys" were unjustly killed by the police.
people with records know better than to run when they aren't doing anything wrong, they flee the scene when they have on them or in there immediate possession (ie in the car with them) illegal materials such as drugs/weapons or one or more currently have warrants for there arrest.

In the situation presented the story of "we didn't know they were cops" given the participants backgrounds is ludicrous...

as for the race "non-issue" 2 of the 3 officers including the initiating officer were of the same race as the suspects.

The sooner people admit the fact that lowlife violent trash comes in all shapes sizes and colors the sooner we can all leave the race "non-issue" in the past.

[ac4r]

So someone who (by your definition) is not a "fine citizen" should be just gunned down on his wedding day?

Whatever happened to due process?

I guess by your defination someone with a rap sheet is a good citizen. Right.

[n0ov]

By your logic, how can YOU make such an assumption without knowing all the facts?

Did we suddenly throw away the principle of innocence before being proven guilty?

Nope my poor, tree hugging, liberal, hippie friend

Simple logic. Police have a job, are very much in the public spot light and are not willing to risk their career or jail time for such a public execution.

I am not saying they were right or justified, whether the victim/target was guilty, innocent, or communicated a threat -- what I am saying is there is one heck of a lot more to this story that we are seeing, else, that judge would have locked them up and thrown away the key.

Or worse yet, forced them to attend Hillary Clinton campaign speeches and debates for the rest of 2008

Don't try to spin this or put words in my mouth -- just take this at face value.

[w2amr]

I don't know how much they pay the cops to patrol some of those neighborhoods, but it's not enough.

[w6ire]

I don't know how much they pay the cops to patrol some of those neighborhoods, but it's not enough.

It's more than enough. For every cop on patrol, they're 1000 guys who want that job. You could cut the pay in half and you'd still have people applying for the job.

[N4VGB]

It's more than enough. For every cop on patrol, they're 1000 guys who want that job. You could cut the pay in half and you'd still have people applying for the job.

Yeah, there's a thousand guys that you don't want to be cops! :eek:

[kc9jwa]

If by chance the cops decided to play god and take out one criminal, to them i guess , if he is a criminal, that could be it to i guess anythnig for cops to be big and hide the bad. Otherwsie either way it was wrong, let god sort them out, in that case, in other like this one dont go killin casue you can lie and get away with it its wrong, plus i hope the real god gets those cops make thier concious be tray them and get whats deserved.:D

[w2amr]

It's more than enough. For every cop on patrol, they're 1000 guys who want that job. You could cut the pay in half and you'd still have people applying for the job.
Very interesting. Link please.

[N2RJ]

It's more than enough. For every cop on patrol, they're 1000 guys who want that job. You could cut the pay in half and you'd still have people applying for the job.

Not in the NYPD.

NYPD cops make around $40,000 per year to start.

The entrance requirements are pretty low - 2 years of college or equivalent military experience.

Surrounding areas pay much more. It's not unheard of for cops in places like Nassau and Suffolk county to make $90k and probably even more with overtime.

It's the same with teachers in NYC - they make around $40k/year as well. Surrounding areas pay more, around $70-$80k.

So it's not like they're attracting the best, brightest and most ethical either.

There are lots of recruitment posters going around because frankly they can't find people who want the job.

[N2RJ]

Nope my poor, tree hugging, liberal, hippie friend

Put a sock in it pope boy wannabe and lay down the crack pipe.

I probably make more money than you do, and I am definitely not a tree hugging liberal hippie. You must have me confused with n2ize.

[N2RJ]

I guess by your defination someone with a rap sheet is a good citizen. Right.

Not at all.

But someone with a rap sheet, who has did time for his crimes and is now accused of something else is innocent until proven guilty.

That's a fundamental right we have in this country. Of course you neocons just hate that pesky constitution and all, except the 2nd amendment which allows you to compensate for your other shortcomings.

[w2amr]

Not in the NYPD.

NYPD cops make around $40,000 per year to start.

The entrance requirements are pretty low - 2 years of college or equivalent military experience.

Surrounding areas pay much more. It's not unheard of for cops in places like Nassau and Suffolk county to make $90k and probably even more with overtime.

It's the same with teachers in NYC - they make around $40k/year as well. Surrounding areas pay more, around $70-$80k.

So it's not like they're attracting the best, brightest and most ethical either.

There are lots of recruitment posters going around because frankly they can't find people who want the job.
According to IRE , people are lined up around the block to get those jobs. :confused:

[N2RJ]

Oh really? I wonder how he knows that from all the way in la-la land.

Must be the water out there.

I have him on ignore so I didn't see that.

[n2ize]

Put a sock in it pope boy wannabe and lay down the crack pipe.

I probably make more money than you do, and I am definitely not a tree hugging liberal hippie. You must have me confused with n2ize.

That's right. I think he got us mixed up. I'm the genuine tree hugging, peace sign waving, long haired, tye dyed, pot sucking, acid dropping, free-love preaching, anti war protesting, sign-carrying, tree huggin hippie. :D:D

[n2ize]

Nope my poor, tree hugging, liberal, hippie friend

Simple logic. Police have a job, are very much in the public spot light and are not willing to risk their career or jail time for such a public execution.

I am not saying they were right or justified, whether the victim/target was guilty, innocent, or communicated a threat -- what I am saying is there is one heck of a lot more to this story that we are seeing, else, that judge would have locked them up and thrown away the key.



It's quite rare that cops get locked up for this type of shooting incident. At least in NYC it's rare or nonexistant as far as I know.

The problem is that this is a problem that keeps on repeating itself. Unarmed black person not committing any crime, not carrying any weapon is suddenly blown away by police. Lives that would not have been lost had the cops not been their. Amadou Diallo was one such unfortunate. Standing in the hallway of his own building, committing no crime, unarmed. Then the cops show up and the man is dead. His life ended. I can list around a dozen such similar incidents.Patric Dorismond is another that comes to mind. Lives that may have no meaning to most people reading this post yet had great value and meaning to others, despite the fact that they were black and despite the fact they came from such notorious places as The Bronx (shudder...shudder), Harlem, manhattans Lower East Side, East NY Brooklyn. Incidents that have happened one too many times and have made people in these communities outraged. And yes, despite what many may think, these areas are COMMUNITES, in which most people are honest, working and law abiding persons who are merely trying to survive. Incidents like these merely make them fear the cops more than they fear the bad guys who may roam their streets. be thise shootings accidental or intentional it doesn't matter. All people understand is that a person who shouldn't be dead is dead, and it could have been any one of them, or their children. How would you feel living under such circumstances ? Would you trust the cops ? At some point this has to be addressed.

[n2ize]

I guess by your defination someone with a rap sheet is a good citizen. Right.

How silly and absurd. Don't let reality get in your way.

[K3XR]

Protestors, "meet and greet".

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/04/meet_the_protestors.html

[kc9jwa]

How would you feel living under such circumstances ? Would you trust the cops ? At some point this has to be addressed.[/quote]
I fell very nervous, very angry, and defintally have my weapon i dont take chances if i feel in defense no matter who im doin it i may have at least a chance , least get a few if i were that black guy. No defintally dont trust cops. :mad:

[N4VGB]

How would you feel living under such circumstances ? Would you trust the cops ? At some point this has to be addressed.
I fell very nervous, very angry, and defintally have my weapon i dont take chances if i feel in defense no matter who im doin it i may have at least a chance , least get a few if i were that black guy. No defintally dont trust cops. :mad:[/QUOTE]

Might I suggest that you leave all your weapons at home, if you feel need for them when approached by law enforcement!? We'll be reading about you in the news soon! :rolleyes:

Listen to any instructions given and obey those instructions precisely, dummy! :cool:

[n0ov]

Put a sock in it pope boy wannabe and lay down the crack pipe.

I probably make more money than you do, and I am definitely not a tree hugging liberal hippie. You must have me confused with n2ize.

Appologies OM, did get you mixed up.

Crack pipe? Wow, so much love in this world. Ryan -- you know me better than that.......

[N4VGB]

How silly and absurd. Don't let reality get in your way.

And 2 out of the 3 detectives also being black proves this is a racist case! :D

[n0ov]

And 2 out of the 3 detectives also being black proves this is a racist case! :D

Nope -- just proves the point you don't have to be white to be a racist :eek:

Also can see why NYC is so against innocent citizens having concealed weapons --- it would be very bad if the innocent began shooting back.

Of course, not sure how this would apply in this situation -- does anyone know if the folks that were shot would even be allowed to own a weapon legally? (Are any of them convicted felons or drug users?)

[kc9jwa]

[
Might I suggest that you leave all your weapons at home, if you feel need for them when approached by law enforcement!? We'll be reading about you in the news soon! :rolleyes:

Listen to any instructions given and obey those instructions precisely, dummy! :cool:[/quote]
Of course i would, im saying mainly if was in my room some copp or fbi agent came in , i would already be concered ready to do somethin, i dont know if thier like impersinators, er somethin. News if i ever got on there i let the goverment have it then the men in black would come get me, i have listen to my inner voice, hit them and run! lol:D:D

[n2ize]

And 2 out of the 3 detectives also being black proves this is a racist case! :D

Has nothing to do with racism or the skin colour of the cops. It has to do with a recurrent situation in which unarmed persons not in the commission of any crime have been shot and killed who otherwise would be alive had the cops not been there. And it has happened not once but time and time again. That is the problem. People have a right to be upset, angry and concerned. It could be they themselves or a family member that gets bumped next.

[n2ize]

Nice try. The guy had a record and was a low life. End of story. One less thug to prey upon society.

Uh buddy ?? Are you feeling ok ? He was not committing any crime when he was shot nor was he armed. The police had no idea of his past record and guess what else ? Just because someone has broken a law in the past does not mean it's okay to blow them away. You apparently have an extremely convoluted sense of reason.. Neither you nor the cops have a right to walk up to someone and blow them away just because they may have has an arrest at one point or another in their lives.

[N4VGB]

Has nothing to do with racism or the skin colour of the cops. It has to do with a recurrent situation in which unarmed persons not in the commission of any crime have been shot and killed who otherwise would be alive had the cops not been there. And it has happened not once but time and time again. That is the problem. People have a right to be upset, angry and concerned. It could be they themselves or a family member that gets bumped next.

So you're saying Rev. Al is full of it!? :eek:

[ac4r]

Uh buddy ?? Are you feeling ok ? He was not committing any crime when he was shot nor was he armed. The police had no idea of his past record and guess what else ? Just because someone has broken a law in the past does not mean it's okay to blow them away. You apparently have an extremely convoluted sense of reason.. Neither you nor the cops have a right to walk up to someone and blow them away just because they may have has an arrest at one point or another in their lives.


Bringing up arrest records seems to upset you . Wonder why ?

[k8wpj]

Sorry, but thats irrelevant here. Bell was not selling drugs when he was killed. Nor was he armed. You must live in a rather convoluted world. I'd hate to be in your shoes.


That's like saying you know a person with a history of alcoholism, is innocent of DUI after a car accident, just because no beer was found in the car at the time of the crash.

There's several aspects of the case, that are unclear, or sketchy at best, about who, knew what, and at what time, and make second guessing the cops course of action impossible.

How can anyone know exactly what men were doing at the time the cops intervened? It may be possible they were scoring drugs, or it could be just as likely that they were meeting friends for a pickup basketball game.

Whatever happened, the sheer number of rounds expended leads me to think someone lost control of the situation very quickly. You either suck as a shooter, or a investigator.

And based on that one fact, I'm sure there was a better way to handle the situation.

[k8wpj]

.It's quite rare that cops get locked up for this type of shooting incident. At least in NYC it's rare or nonexistant as far as I know.

The problem is that this is a problem that keeps on repeating itself. Unarmed black person not committing any crime, not carrying any weapon is suddenly blown away by police.

Maybe if the cops were properly trained to make decisions, and penalized when things go wrong, that might change.

[N2RJ]

That's like saying you know a person with a history of alcoholism, is innocent of DUI after a car accident, just because no beer was found in the car at the time of the crash.

Care to guess where this phrase comes from?

No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law ...


There's several aspects of the case, that are unclear, or sketchy at best, about who, knew what, and at what time, and make second guessing the cops course of action impossible.

Yet we have quite a few in this thread who are doing the exact same thing and justifying the actions of the police. All we are saying is that the man may have been innocent, and because he was gunned down in cold blood no one will ever know.

How can anyone know exactly what men were doing at the time the cops intervened? It may be possible they were scoring drugs, or it could be just as likely that they were meeting friends for a pickup basketball game.

Whatever happened, the sheer number of rounds expended leads me to think someone lost control of the situation very quickly. You either suck as a shooter, or a investigator.

And based on that one fact, I'm sure there was a better way to handle the situation.

Last I checked simply "scoring drugs" was not good cause to be rained upon by a lead shower.

[N2RJ]

Appologies OM, did get you mixed up.

Crack pipe? Wow, so much love in this world. Ryan -- you know me better than that.......

Ok, I'm sorry for telling you to put down the crack pipe.

[N2RJ]

Nope -- just proves the point you don't have to be white to be a racist :eek:

Also can see why NYC is so against innocent citizens having concealed weapons --- it would be very bad if the innocent began shooting back.

Of course, not sure how this would apply in this situation -- does anyone know if the folks that were shot would even be allowed to own a weapon legally? (Are any of them convicted felons or drug users?)

You're catching on very quickly. Bravo.

One of the charges this guy was convicted of in the past was a firearms charge. A firearms charge that in a state like say, Florida or Tennessee would probably have been business as usual and 100% legal.

[n2ize]

Bringing up arrest records seems to upset you . Wonder why ?

It does't upset me. Because an arrest record is not justification for killing a person. Can you comprehend that fact ? Apparently you cannot. You seem to feel that death is the answer to everything.

Answer me a couple simple questions. Do you feel someone should be shot and killed for smoking marijuana ? Do you feel that a mass murderer or serial killer is more serious a crime than someone stealing a stick of Bazooka gum ? Or do you feel that both deserve the death penalty.

[ac4r]

It does't upset me. Because an arrest record is not justification for killing a person. Can you comprehend that fact ? Apparently you cannot. You seem to feel that death is the answer to everything.

Answer me a couple simple questions. Do you feel someone should be shot and killed for smoking marijuana ? Do you feel that a mass murderer or serial killer is more serious a crime than someone stealing a stick of Bazooka gum ? Or do you feel that both deserve the death penalty.


Did i say a record was justification for killing anyone , no. I said it simply indicated the person was a low life. The idiot in question was shot because he failed to instantly obey the commands of the police and they viewed his actions as a threat to their safety. I guess you dont see a vehicle comming at you as a threat. If people want to smoke pot and drugs i could care less. its their choice . Would i raise a hand to help them if they were dying on the street and begging for help . NO

[n2ize]

Did i say a record was justification for killing anyone , no. I said it simply indicated the person was a low life.


Why is a person a low life because of a drug charge ? I know several people who have been arrested for petty drug crimes. All of them are hard working, people who have never raised a finger to harm anyone.

Answer me this question. Do you believe that a person can commit a crime and can pay their debt to society and can go on to lead a good life ? Or, to ask a slightly deeper question... Do you beleive in forgiveness ? I do. It's part of my Roman Catholic upbringing. I was taught that Jesus forgave those who sinned and were truly sorry for their sins. Forgiveness is sometimes difficult. It takes a degree of bravery to forgive.

[N2RJ]

Did i say a record was justification for killing anyone , no. I said it simply indicated the person was a low life. The idiot in question was shot because he failed to instantly obey the commands of the police and they viewed his actions as a threat to their safety. I guess you dont see a vehicle comming at you as a threat. If people want to smoke pot and drugs i could care less. its their choice . Would i raise a hand to help them if they were dying on the street and begging for help . NO

I guess the thing I fail to see is what his previous arrests have to do with him being gunned down for no good reason.

[N4VGB]

I guess the thing I fail to see is what his previous arrests have to do with him being gunned down for no good reason.

Tell us all about what happened and how it transpired, you were there, correct?

[N2RJ]

Tell us all about what happened and how it transpired, you were there, correct?

You first.

Seems to me that from all the way in Tennessee you know all about New York and the NYPD.

[N4VGB]

You first.

Seems to me that from all the way in Tennessee you know all about New York and the NYPD.

All I know is what was reported and I could neither acquit or convict on that info. The only startling fact that I know in the matter is the unusually high number of rounds fired, which is either indicative of poor markmanship or outright panic on the part of the officers involved. Your turn, I'm anxious to read your revealing inside information upon my return from the dinner table.

[N2RJ]

All I know is what was reported and I could neither acquit or convict on that info. The only startling fact that I know in the matter is the unusually high number of rounds fired, which is either indicative of poor markmanship or outright panic on the part of the officers involved. Your turn, I'm anxious to read your revealing inside information upon my return from the dinner table.

No thanks. I have enough comedy from you for tonight.

Thanks again for proving how clueless you are, yet again.

And again, the only inside info I have - he was an unarmed man, shot to death by the police, which the mayor and governor both agree aren't right.

They are certainly more relevant than you are, VGB.

[N4VGB]

And again, the only inside info I have - he was an unarmed man, shot to death by the police, which the mayor and governor both agree aren't right.


Yeah, yeah, just as I thought. Join Al in shutting down NYC. Politicians are politicians they'll wet their little fingers and test the wind, go with the BS flow. I'd take my garbage man's opinion on any subject over a mayor of governor any day, at least he earns his living honestly.

[W4DFW]

No thanks. I have enough comedy from you for tonight.

Thanks again for proving how clueless you are, yet again.

Clueless??

Let me ask you . . . were undercover cops at the strip joint because of previous problems there?

Was there a 4th person seen on video leaving the area at high speed when the cops confronted the "victim?"

Did anyone of the folks killed have previous rap sheets and were known to confront the police??

Had anyone of those killed had problems with illegal possession of guns??

Did anyone try to ram a police vehicle that night??

Is there some reason WHY a person would try to ram a police vehicle yet claim innocence??

Does Al Sharpton give a rats ass about the number of blacks killed by other blacks, or does he only care about blacks killed by police??

Has Al Sharpton ever had a job??

[k3roj]

It is amazing yet scary that we can no longer "really" voice our opinions as to racial matters. Everytime one of them get hurt or killed, this Shartom guy with greasy hair steps in. Who is he, really?

[kc9jwa]

[
Answer me this question. Do you believe that a person can commit a crime and can pay their debt to society and can go on to lead a good life ? Or, to ask a slightly deeper question... Do you beleive in forgiveness ? I do. It's part of my Roman Catholic upbringing. I was taught that Jesus forgave those who sinned and were truly sorry for their sins. Forgiveness is sometimes difficult. It takes a degree of bravery to forgive.[/quote]
I think people can chnage criminals or not, some turn to god i think thats great, i am glad to see one forgives. I would to, if it was right to die beocouse of some temptaion, and human defult then , god would have said you have to be perfect. Only way i wouldnt help someone is if they got into trouble by drugs, and i had kids with me, i have t pass, becouse i could have got all killed. You know those two convicts who now are ones who made the tv show, It takes a thief? thats the show they learned they are good people, god bless them.:)

[W4INF]

Most of us are under the opinion, if we wanted current events news, we would have subscribed to Yahoo or MSN. That is all.