The Bush Presidency, What Could Have Been

[K2WH]

Just wondering out loud. If 9/11 never happened, if the Iraq war never started, where would this country be now? What bold initiatives could Bush have started to benefit the citizens of this country? Things or initiatives that simply had to be put on the back burner or forgotten all together because of 9/11. What was no his mind what plans did he have as he looked to the future of his Presidency - halted by 9/11.

Would the dems and reps be at each others throats? Would the stock market be at 20,000?

What could have been. What do you think?

K2WH

[wb5ydk]

Without 9/11, perhaps, under President John Kerry, we would still be exactly where we are right now (minus the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, of course). But who's to say that 9/11/2001 wouldn't just defer itself until 9/11/2008?

[KU0DM]

I think if you use 9/11 as a reason that Bush hasn't done anything, then have pretty low expectations of the man.

If he can't improve his nation just because of a war, he shouldn't be in office.

If 9/11 is the reason nothing has been done, then he shouldn't be in office.
Why?

Because I don't want someone running to country who will get so caught up in one thing, they totally forget about another, I don't want someone who can't focus on more than one thing.

[KB1KIX]

where would this country be now?

No better...... but could've been worse under Gore. Can you say TAXES!

What bold initiatives could Bush have started to benefit the citizens of this country?

Hopefully.... none. Initiatives are nothing but another way to create more social policy and we already have too much of that.

What ever happened to taking care of ourselves rather than suckling on the teat of our government?


Would the dems and reps be at each others throats?

I hope so.... that has been the most entertaining part of this election cycle - OK, at least the dems!

Would the stock market be at 20,000?

I hope not..... study your market history. That much growth would mean one massive drop. We need more market correction to prevent that as is!

What could have been. What do you think?

I think Bush didn't do a whole hell of a lot, but it could've been a lot worse.

But you will get your wish this time around, you still have a choice of 3 democrats!

Jonathan

[K0RGR]

If it weren't for 9/11 I'm not sure Bush would even have made it through his first term. He had the lowest approval rating for a new president ever, prior to his great gift from Osama Bin Laden. The economy was going down the crack, and things were looking fairly grim. It's amazing how standing on a pile of smoldering rubble making a nice speech can turn a total schmuck into a hero.

And, if it weren't for the "War to Re-elect President Bush", John Kerry would, indeed, be president today.

[w2amr]

What do you think?

K2WH
I think this belongs in the political section.

[KP3FT]

Just wondering out loud. If 9/11 never happened, if the Iraq war never started, where would this country be now? What bold initiatives could Bush have started to benefit the citizens of this country? Things or initiatives that simply had to be put on the back burner or forgotten all together because of 9/11. What was no his mind what plans did he have as he looked to the future of his Presidency - halted by 9/11.

Would the dems and reps be at each others throats? Would the stock market be at 20,000?

What could have been. What do you think?

K2WH

He did do some very good things: he outlawed partial-birth-abortion which saved literally thousands of lives, and he successfully placed two conservative justices on the Supreme Court. His tax rebates are good for the economy as well, but unfortunately it's a small effort which treats a symptom, but not the cause, and ultimately won't fix the problem.
I don't think 9/11 made much of a difference in the rest of his decisions, however. He seems to be disinterested in the long-term health of the nation's economy, and he seems to be influenced by "big-money".

[KD0DKI]

Gas would be $8.00 per gallon because all his cronies would not be making money on defence contracts.


KD0DKI Sam.

[K1CJS]

Bush had every intention of starting a war somewhere--his father inflammed one in the middle east because of Kuwaiti oil, but that was for a good cause. Dubya just wanted to be remembered for something, so he went after Hussein. 9/11 just turned out to be the excuse he needed to get into it faster.

If the US stopped leaning on other countries to do things our way, there wouldn't be as many countries on the face of this earth that think of us as thugs and bullies. On the other hand, if we got a reasonable person in the White House who would start acting his age instead of his shoe size, we may well be much better off than we are now.

The mantra should be "If you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone too. But 'leaving you alone' includes economic handouts as well. If you want our help, you must accept all of our help." instead of "If we don't like you and your way of doing things, we're gonna come after you" --the mantra of the presently sitting President.

[n2ize]

No better...... but could've been worse under Gore. Can you say TAXES!


Not necessarily. And economically Bush has loused things up for you taxes or no taxes.



Hopefully.... none. Initiatives are nothing but another way to create more social policy and we already have too much of that.

What ever happened to taking care of ourselves rather than suckling on the teat of our government?
It this a new buzzline from the medium wave talkers ? Nobody sucks at the teats of goverment more than corporate America. It's not sucking at the teats of government if most civilized and industrialized nations provide regulations, regulatory agencies and social programs for people. It's largely what made the robust middle class of the 20th century a reality in America and it's largely the reason that many of us are where we are today. The idea of taking care of ourselves has never gone away. We work, we pay taxes, and we pay for everything we own and then we pay more. That is not exactly sucking at the teats of government. Thats called taking care of ourselves. And the idea of social policy has worked very well in assuring a level playing field and the development of a middle class that has access to all the essentials required for one to lead a full and responsible life and to be secure in their properties. It's unfortunate that some see it fot to dismantle and destroy so vital a part of America and the reason that so many outsiders have in the past looked at America as a place of hope and prosperity.





But you will get your wish this time around, you still have a choice of 3 democrats!

A choice but no choice.

[w2amr]

[QUOTE=KP3FT;1207175]He did do some very good things: he outlawed partial-birth-abortion which saved literally thousands of lives,QUOTE]
Worse case of tunnel vision I've ever seen. Is that ALL you ever think about?

[K1CJS]

The good he has done would fill a thimble, but that thimble would sink in the sea of his screw-ups and misadventures. The people who say he's done more for this country than other presidents fail to say that 'more' is on the minus side--not the plus.

They went to impeach Clinton because of his cavorting around the White House, but they won't impeach this buzzard who ruined the country, took away the people's freedoms, started a war that claims more lives every day and in general has sunk this country in a sea of despair.

The president right on down to the last congressman should all be impeached. Its time for the common man to take the country back from the professional legislators.

The sad part is -- IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

[W3MIV]

What could have been. What do you think?

What an insipid thread. What might have been is the path of fools.

If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his butt on lily pads.

Bush will end up among the great presidential failures, not because of inertia in the face of dire need, but by virtue of a single-minded insensitivity to any course but his own. He is neither stupid nor aimless; he is a master of disciplined devotion to a failed ideal. He does what he does because he is convinced that it is the right thing to do.

In other words, there is no might have been; what is is what might have been.

[KA9VQF]

Just wondering out loud. If 9/11 never happened, if the Iraq war never started, where would this country be now? What bold initiatives could Bush have started to benefit the citizens of this country? Things or initiatives that simply had to be put on the back burner or forgotten all together because of 9/11. What was no his mind what plans did he have as he looked to the future of his Presidency - halted by 9/11.

Would the dems and reps be at each others throats? Would the stock market be at 20,000?

What could have been. What do you think?

K2WH

Have you never heard of P.N.A.C. ? {Partnership for a New American Century} do yourself a favor and put it into your favorite search engine.

I did before the election in 2000.

Read the white paper that organization had out long before the election.

Look at who wrote the paper and who are signed charter members. You will see daddy bush W and most of W’s cabinet.

It makes the NAZI party and the Italian fascists of the late ’20’s and early ’30’s look like a troop of cub scouts.

They wanted and planned for multiple warfronts in multiple parts of the world.

Their goal was an American empire, ruled by reveled truth.

Next read the fictional work of George Orwell “1984” for an example of what they had envisioned for us. Then look around and see how much they have managed to put in place.

Warning, it might get a little scary for you.

[K8MHZ]

What an insipid thread. What might have been is the path of fools.

If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his butt on lily pads.

Bush will end up among the great presidential failures, not because of inertia in the face of dire need, but by virtue of a single-minded insensitivity to any course but his own. He is neither stupid nor aimless; he is a master of disciplined devotion to a failed ideal. He does what he does because he is convinced that it is the right thing to do.

In other words, there is no might have been; what is is what might have been.

I agree with you except on one count. Bush *is* stupid. If not, he could at least speak English without a noticeable and documented (on many counts) failure therein.

Even morons and twits can have erroneous ideals. Bush it the poster child of that assessment.

Do you *really* think he would have any power other than the manager of a fast food joint if his daddy wasn't a former president? You may not agree, but I am thoroughly convinced that is the case. I would also hazard to guess that Bush Sr. is not very proud of his offspring and may be looking at his wife in a different view because of dumbya's total screw ups and the corrosion of the silver spoon placed in his trap at birth.

I don't know about you, but if I were in Bush Sr's shoes I would be demanding a blood test from both the Mrs. and a plumber, a gardener and the pool cleaner or three.

[W4DFW]

Do you *really* think he would have any power other than the manager of a fast food joint if his daddy wasn't a former president? You may not agree, but I am thoroughly convinced that is the case.

And, pray tell, just what does that say about Hillary?? You know, the bitch, er, woman, who is going to rip the Democrat party to shreds because she thinks she is due the Presidency for putting up with Slick Willy's cavorting with woman after woman, even gettin himself impeached over lying about it??

Without Bill, Hillary would be another high-pitched cackling female wannabee without the brains to know she should leave that bastard of a husband behind in the dirt with the rest of the low-life scum he cavorted with while pretending to love Hitlery.

Even BILL doesn't do Hitlery!!

But I digress.

I remain amused at the number of lunes on the left who think Bush is dumber than a stump, yet managed to beat the best the left could through at him not once, but TWICE!

Damn, that's really gotta hurt!! I mean, what does that say about what our Country thinks about Dumbocrats??

Whether invading Iraq was a brilliant strategy or a fool's war will be judged by history many years from how. *IF* bringing Democracy to that part of the world changes those by lighting an ever-so-slight fire of freedom so that they can see how great freedom can be, then Iraq will be seen as a brilliant move after 60 odd years of throwing fools gold to the region.

Then again, you Dumbocrats seem to have completely forgotten how long it took the USA to fight the battle for independence, not to mention how many American soldiers lost their lives to live in freedom.

No wonder the terrorists are voting Democrat. :rolleyes:

[KG4CGC]

And, pray tell, just what does that say about Hillary?? You know, the bitch, er, woman, who is going to rip the Democrat party to shreds because she thinks she is due the Presidency for putting up with Slick Willy's cavorting with woman after woman, even gettin himself impeached over lying about it??

Without Bill, Hillary would be another high-pitched cackling female wannabee without the brains to know she should leave that bastard of a husband behind in the dirt with the rest of the low-life scum he cavorted with while pretending to love Hitlery.

Even BILL doesn't do Hitlery!!

But I digress.

I remain amused at the number of lunes on the left who think Bush is dumber than a stump, yet managed to beat the best the left could through at him not once, but TWICE!

Damn, that's really gotta hurt!! I mean, what does that say about what our Country thinks about Dumbocrats??

Whether invading Iraq was a brilliant strategy or a fool's war will be judged by history many years from how. *IF* bringing Democracy to that part of the world changes those by lighting an ever-so-slight fire of freedom so that they can see how great freedom can be, then Iraq will be seen as a brilliant move after 60 odd years of throwing fools gold to the region.

Then again, you Dumbocrats seem to have completely forgotten how long it took the USA to fight the battle for independence, not to mention how many American soldiers lost their lives to live in freedom.

No wonder the terrorists are voting Democrat. :rolleyes:

Yet you fail at answering the question.
*rolls eyes*

[W3MIV]

Yet you fail at answering the question.

Among a host of other failures.

[KV1M]

We would be right were we are right now.
He planned on invading Iraq BEFORE he was elected, remember? The reasons for invasion would have been exactly the same minus the al Qaida lie. It would have been delayed only for a short time while he sold the manufactured evidence to a public less willing to rush to attack. The only thing that would have been able to stop it wold have been a jaded public, but looking at the boot licking Bush worshipers around here I doubt even that would have lasted long. Cheney would have just declared a 15% approval as a mandate and ordered Bush to attack anyway.

He was a failure in school, business and as a Governor. What makes you think he would have suddenly become a winner succeeded as President?

[KV1M]

... I remain amused at the number of lunes on the left who think Bush is dumber than a stump, yet managed to beat the best the left could through at him not once, but TWICE! ...

.. No wonder the terrorists are voting Democrat. :rolleyes:

You mean stole the election twice don't you? It's been proven even if our current dictators won't do anything about it.

And the terrorists wanted Bush to win, remember the bin Laden video timed to help Bush's election? They LOVE Republicans, you guys do what they want you to.

[W3MIV]

You mean stole the election twice don't you? It's been proven even if our current dictators won't do anything about it.

Show me the proof that the elections (either or both) were stolen. That is bunk.

I am no defender of Bush, but it was not Bush that stole any election; we were stupid enough to have voted for him in sufficient numbers that he won the elections under the rules established by the Constitution.

You may dislike Bush. Indeed, you may hate him if that is your predilection. But make a small effort to be honest and admit to simple fact.

[w2amr]

I agree with you except on one count. Bush *is* stupid. If not, he could at least speak English without a noticeable and documented (on many counts) failure therein.

Even morons and twits can have erroneous ideals. Bush it the poster child of that assessment.

Do you *really* think he would have any power other than the manager of a fast food joint if his daddy wasn't a former president? You may not agree, but I am thoroughly convinced that is the case. I would also hazard to guess that Bush Sr. is not very proud of his offspring and may be looking at his wife in a different view because of dumbya's total screw ups and the corrosion of the silver spoon placed in his trap at birth.

I don't know about you, but if I were in Bush Sr's shoes I would be demanding a blood test from both the Mrs. and a plumber, a gardener and the pool cleaner or three.
Ahhhhh! That's funny. :D

[K8YZK]

Well Bush would have still have started the Iraqi Civil War, which have lead to 4000+ american deaths over oil that has never shown up, but then again him and his Saudi friends and oil companies would not have as much fun raping the american people.

[KV1M]

Show me the proof that the elections (either or both) were stolen. That is bunk.

I am no defender of Bush, but it was not Bush that stole any election; we were stupid enough to have voted for him in sufficient numbers that he won the elections under the rules established by the Constitution.

You may dislike Bush. Indeed, you may hate him if that is your predilection. But make a small effort to be honest and admit to simple fact.

Follow the dots:

Start with this one:
Gore wins in recount (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/mar/12/uselections2000.usa)

ties into:
Voting machines not secure (http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11391)

and:
Black voters purged in FL (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/ccrdraft060401.htm)


then 2004 rolls along with:
Diebold CEO vows to give Bush the election (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm)

and this laundry list (with references, so check them):
2004 US election controversies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_voting_controversies)

and combined with these:
Diebold machines hacked in under 4 minutes (http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/06/diebold-voting-machine-hacked-in-four-minutes-flat/)
Diebold machines in FL hacked (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051222-5821.html)
Security keys identical on all voting machines tested (http://www.chronogram.com/issue/2004/09/news/evoting.php)
Diebold machines call home with results 5 hours BEFORE polls close (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0309/S00042.htm)
Voting machine are taken home by poll workers (http://www.votingmachinesprocon.org/questions/sleepovers.htm)

Does this all add up for you Al?
It's there, it's documented. That the media and the government won't do anything about it is moot. Gore DID win, and given the lack of forced recounts by Republicans in 2004/2006 in the close (under 1%) races leads to the conclusion that they KNEW it was rigged and counted on the margin being wider.

You wanna keep ignoring what is smacking you up side your head every 2 years go right ahead, just don't be calling it a democracy any more.

[KP3FT]

[QUOTE=KP3FT;1207175]He did do some very good things: he outlawed partial-birth-abortion which saved literally thousands of lives,QUOTE]
Worse case of tunnel vision I've ever seen. Is that ALL you ever think about?

I can see why it may seem that way to you, but I have made several posts regarding many other topics. I see others as having "tunnel vision" when it comes to Bush. The focus is usually on Iraq, Katrina, and things that Bush failed to do. I try to remind others that there were at least SOME good things the man has done. I feel the same way as the thread implies "what could have been." He started out well but rapidly declined.

[k9kxq]

President Bush has had almost eight years to move our country forward, have we moved forward, has the way of life for Americans moved forward, you all know the answer to that...

JFK said "we choose to go to the moon" in eight years we went to the moon, why can we not have a President that moves our country forward, makes the way of life for it's citizens better,liberty, freedom, privacy, security not only as a whole but individually in your home, papers and person...

President Bush will undoubtedly go down in history as the worst...

kxq

[w2amr]

President Bush has had almost eight years to move our country forward, have we moved forward, has the way of life for Americans moved forward, you all know the answer to that...

JFK said "we choose to go to the moon" in eight years we went to the moon, why can we not have a President that moves our country forward, makes the way of life for it's citizens better,liberty, freedom, privacy, security not only as a whole but individually in your home, papers and person...

President Bush will undoubtedly go down in history as the worst...

kxq
The good news for the next president, the bar has been lowered to the ground.

[n2ize]

And, pray tell, just what does that say about Hillary?? You know, the bitch, er, woman, who is going to rip the Democrat party to shreds because she thinks she is due the Presidency for putting up with Slick Willy's cavorting with woman after woman, even gettin himself impeached over lying about it??



Without Bill, Hillary would be another high-pitched cackling female wannabee without the brains to know she should leave that bastard of a husband behind in the dirt with the rest of the low-life scum he cavorted with while pretending to love Hitlery.

Even BILL doesn't do Hitlery!!

But I digress.


Digress some more please. That was very interesting and quite revealing.

[w2amr]

Digress some more please. That was very interesting and quite revealing.
A fine example of a right wing intellectual. Wonder if there is a nascar flag on the side of the trailer. :D

[N4VGB]

A fine example of a right wing intellectual. Wonder if there is a nascar flag on the side of the trailer. :D

You're fixation on Southerners not being up to your personal standards is amazing, considering your personal standards are so obviously low. :cool:

[w2amr]

You're fixation on Southerners not being up to your personal standards is amazing, considering your personal standards are so obviously low. :cool:
You are probably right. If my standards were any higher I would have to ignore you.

[ad4mg]

You are probably right. If my standards were any higher I would have to ignore you.

I'm just thankful that I've managed to distance myself from the "new wave" of bush bootlicking southern (un)conservatives (neocons, in my world).

It's as if they actually enjoy being stupid.

[KV1M]

I'm just thankful that I've managed to distance myself from the "new wave" of bush bootlicking southern (un)conservatives (neocons, in my world).

It's as if they actually enjoy being stupid.

They revel in it.
Wearing it like a badge of honor.

[N4VGB]

I'm just thankful that I've managed to distance myself from the "new wave" of bush bootlicking southern (un)conservatives (neocons, in my world).

It's as if they actually enjoy being stupid.

I'm sure there are many openings for you in Joysey, see ya! :p:p:p