$100 to gas a loaded van; $43 for hybrid

[kg4kww]

Why do you people keep buying status vehicles like SUV's, Hummers, Firebirds, Mustangs, F350 Pickup trucks and Lexis's. Guess some people have more money than sense.

This is one reason why the oil companies are getting away with wholesale rape of the American public.

Have any of you started walking funny since the oil companies have started raping you?

COALINGA, California (CNN) -- Noel Bosse and Ken Davis watch as the numbers keep spinning at the gas pump -- 70 bucks, 80 bucks. Gulp, guzzle, then it stops: $101 for about 25 gallons.

The $100 fill-up has arrived in the United States.

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Bosse says with disgust.

Bosse and Davis are returning from Las Vegas, Nevada, heading back to their home near Seattle, Washington. They're pulling a trailer full of Arabian horses in their passenger van.

Bosse says they're averaging 200 miles every fill-up or 10 miles to the gallon.

full story (http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/04/23/gas.prices/index.html)

[WB2WIK]

I have a gas-guzzling van that seats seven, that's why. The seats are usually all filled when I'm driving it, so my 16 mpg or so is equivalent to 112 mpg compared with a similar vehicle occupied by one person.

[N4VGB]

My "gas guzzling" truck is used for both personal and business reasons, I absolutely need a truck and one with some power for heavy loads also. My wife needs her SUV for business reasons also, real estate signs in the rear and room to haul around clients in some comfort.

A commuter type car would only add to our expense and save us nothing.

For those who have to commute, Honda has you a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle on the market, buy it and shut up! :p:p:p

[NL7W]

I drive 4WD and AWD trucks and SUV's out of necessity and family size. We just don't drive them as much.

Telecommuting is great... 4 to 5 days a week for me.

How about you?

:)

[n8yx]

This is one reason why the oil companies are getting away with wholesale rape of the American public.

Have any of you started walking funny since the oil companies have started raping you?

This seems to be a recurring theme in many of your posts. WHY?

[KV1M]

This seems to be a recurring theme in many of your posts. WHY?

He's looking for a date, you free tonight?

[NL7W]

This seems to be a recurring theme in many of your posts. WHY?

I have indirectly worked for oil companies in year past and have always enjoyed well-compensated paychecks.

If you can't beat them, join them. They pay well, and take care of their people. :D

[n8yx]

I have indirectly worked for oil companies in year past and have always enjoyed well-compensated paychecks.

If you can't beat them, join them. They pay well, and take care of their people. :D

We ain't talkin' 'bout oil here...

[N4VGB]

We ain't talkin' 'bout oil here...

Then what are you talking about? :confused:

[K0RGR]

Why do you people keep buying status vehicles like SUV's, Hummers, Firebirds, Mustangs, F350 Pickup trucks and Lexis's. Guess some people have more money than sense.

This is one reason why the oil companies are getting away with wholesale rape of the American public.

Have any of you started walking funny since the oil companies have started raping you?

COALINGA, California (CNN) -- Noel Bosse and Ken Davis watch as the numbers keep spinning at the gas pump -- 70 bucks, 80 bucks. Gulp, guzzle, then it stops: $101 for about 25 gallons.

The $100 fill-up has arrived in the United States.

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Bosse says with disgust.

Bosse and Davis are returning from Las Vegas, Nevada, heading back to their home near Seattle, Washington. They're pulling a trailer full of Arabian horses in their passenger van.

Bosse says they're averaging 200 miles every fill-up or 10 miles to the gallon.

full story (http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/04/23/gas.prices/index.html)

Be careful Greg, or your neighbors will label you a "librul" and get out the tar and feathers. How dare you insinuate that America's finest corporations are having illicit sex with the American public?

$100 fillups are God's retribution for gay marriage.

It only cost $54 to fill up my Tracker the other day.

[KB9BVN]

Why do you people keep buying status vehicles like SUV's, Hummers, Firebirds, Mustangs, F350 Pickup trucks and Lexis's. Guess some people have more money than sense.

Maybe they just have more money than you and enjoy spending it on whatever they want....that's ok with you right? I mean, they DID earn it.

[N4VGB]

Maybe they just have more money than you and enjoy spending it on whatever they want....that's ok with you right? I mean, they DID earn it.

Now you've done it!!! The pack will gather for an attack now!!! :D

[ab1ga]

For some a large vehicle may be the only solution, like if you're hauling horse trailers. The flip side is that the rise in fuel costs just made keeping horses more expensive. If you were on the edge, this could put an end to that hobby.

But for the rest of us it also may be cheaper and greener to run the gas guzzler into the ground than switch too soon.

On the money side, how high would gas have to go to offset the cost of financing and insuring a new one, no matter how economically operated? In my case, I drive about 15,000 miles per year, with my car getting a depressing 25 miles per gallon on average, for an annual consumption of 600 gallons per year. Here in Massachusetts, if I were to buy a new car that got 50 miles per gallon, an increase of two dollars per gallon would cover the increased insurance, but not much more. Your mileage may vary, but I suspect that for many of us it's just cheaper to run what we have and make sure the next car is more economical.

On the green side one needs to consider that a new car, even a small, economical one, consumes new steel, glass, plastics, etc. Again, prematurely trashing the existing vehicle may actually use more energy overall than buying the new car right away. The minimal impact car, financially and ecologically, is a pre-existing economical car, provided you can find someone willing to sell one these days!

[N2RJ]

Maybe they just have more money than you and enjoy spending it on whatever they want....that's ok with you right? I mean, they DID earn it.

So if they have more money, why are they bitching about the price of gas?

[kf6rdn]

My vehicle gets 44MPG on the fwy.

Well, it would if I'd stop going 120..
Doh!

[w2amr]

He's looking for a date, you free tonight?

Not interested, He has a heartbeat.

[N5RLR]

When hybrid vehicles become more mainstream and all carmakers are building them, I'll consider buying one.

At the moment, I consider them a fad, that can very well die out.

Anyone remember General Motors' EV-1? :rolleyes:

[KB9BVN]

So if they have more money, why are they bitching about the price of gas?

Who is this THEY you speak of?

[W3MIV]

Who is this THEY you speak of?

Me. I can live with it.

[W5GA]

For some a large vehicle may be the only solution, like if you're hauling horse trailers.

Don't need to haul them in the trailer. I'm using them to visit the local wally world when necessary. It's only about 3.5 miles, mostly on dirt roads. Nothing like driving a team of Percherons and a wagon to the store!

[KD6NIG]

Both my vehicles are 4cyl and have been for over 2 years now. The need to "get around quicker" is going to fade pretty fast. But I don't have to haul trailers or anything either. I could tow up to 2000 LBS I think with my pickup but I've never had the need.

I think where you're going to hear the most complaining this year though is in the recreation industry. Boat dealers around here are already crying seriously. Now, dude who owns a 72 foot yacht probably has the coin to put the gas in it. But, others who could afford to take the boat out for a day on the water will probably be rethinking it. I know my mom-in-law's boat left the dock once last year-to go have the bottom repainted like you have to do every 2 years. And to do that we brought gas out in 5 gallon containers every weekend for about 2 months prior to it. Gas "on the water" is 50 to 75 cents more a gallon than on "land".

There is a lot of that type of stuff for sale in the paper lately too I notice.

But if you want to see high prices, you should have seen the total on the pump yesterday when I went to get gas. An older lady approached me and asked for directions to a local destination. They had a full sized motorhome and were towing a small car behind it. I "clicked off" at $43 for my S-10 4cyl. I walked over and explained to the older gentleman pumping the diesel how to get to where they were going. He clicked off around $542, if I remember correctly.

I think there is going to be a lot less recreating this year.

I've thought about buying a "jetski" or "waverunner" and have looked into the prices, though I'm not ready to do so yet. But when I do, it looks like I could get the same one my mom in law paid $10k for....for about $$8500. Brand new. Sales must really be hurting if they are knocking that much off....

I'm going to wait :)

[kc9jwa]

Why do you people keep buying status vehicles like SUV's, Hummers, Firebirds, Mustangs, F350 Pickup trucks and Lexis's. Guess some people have more money than sense.

This is one reason why the oil companies are getting away with wholesale rape of the American public.

Have any of you started walking funny since the oil companies have started raping you?

COALINGA, California (CNN) -- Noel Bosse and Ken Davis watch as the numbers keep spinning at the gas pump -- 70 bucks, 80 bucks. Gulp, guzzle, then it stops: $101 for about 25 gallons.

The $100 fill-up has arrived in the United States.

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Bosse says with disgust.

Bosse and Davis are returning from Las Vegas, Nevada, heading back to their home near Seattle, Washington. They're pulling a trailer full of Arabian horses in their passenger van.

Bosse says they're averaging 200 miles every fill-up or 10 miles to the gallon.

full story (http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/04/23/gas.prices/index.html)
They buy the popular ones becouse they look great, they are qucik, i guess people have thier reasons, i dont agree, yeah i like to have a mustang but mine would be a baby blue old timer wheres its mad eof metal and actually has real value. Gas is nutz soon i also will know.:eek:

[N2RJ]

Who is this THEY you speak of?

The people who have more money and simply desire to have a larger vehicle.

One would assume that if you have the money to buy an SUV, you have the money for gas.

Yet in the news I hear about single moms letting their kids go without just to gas up the navigata with da rims...

[KD0DKI]

I just love spending money on fule, makes me happy that my stock is increasing in value.


kd0dki Sam.

[N9XR]

I just love spending money on fule, makes me happy that my stock is increasing in value.


kd0dki Sam.

Yir stalk mae bee encreesing, butt eef uou half onlee won shair, eet reely donn't meen muuch. Beter too half stalks thann wone stalk.

[KB9BVN]

The people who have more money and simply desire to have a larger vehicle.

One would assume that if you have the money to buy an SUV, you have the money for gas.

Yet in the news I hear about single moms letting their kids go without just to gas up the navigata with da rims...

So what you're really ticked about is the cultural differences?

I haven't heard any SUV owners, that I know anyway, complaining about the price of fuel. What good would it do? I fill mine up about every 8 or 9 days and it stays parked in the garage most of the time....now my little Saturn, that dude burns up about $150 a week in gas now.

[KB9YCO]

...$100 fillups are God's retribution for gay marriage.

Nice, that is the funniest line of the day!

Maybe they just have more money than you and enjoy spending it on whatever they want....that's ok with you right? I mean, they DID earn it.

Very true, besides I think the problem goes deeper than just people wasting money driving around in fast or large vehicles, though there are plenty of people that just don't care. Until there is a different system in place the average person can only deal with what is available. That's not to say that some Americans aren't wasteful, many are, but there needs to be some major change beyond fuel conservation alone for anything to happen.

When hybrid vehicles become more mainstream and all carmakers are building them, I'll consider buying one.

At the moment, I consider them a fad, that can very well die out...

That's pretty much the problem, unless 'alternatives' become the norm and not an 'alternative' then nothing will change anytime soon. Sadly, that is the case.
I say just stop buying fuel unless you absolutely have to for the necessities of life, work, school, whatever the case may be. Otherwise, don't spend any money at gas stations, eventually they will get the message. (I know, people say that that will only effect the station owners, but where else is there to start?) Then again good luck trying to get consensus in this country these days anyway, polarization and left/right rhetoric rule the land.
This is going to start really effecting EVERY aspect of our lives, pretty much anything delivered by truck, which is pretty much everything! It goes beyond just 'fueling up' at this point, and we should all be worried.

[N4VGB]

Stop whining about the cost of gas America! KV1M explains regularly in this forum about how much better life is in Europe than the U.S. and Europeans pay a lot more for their gas. :D

[n2ize]

Stop whining about the cost of gas America! KV1M explains regularly in this forum about how much better life is in Europe than the U.S. and Europeans pay a lot more for their gas. :D

They also have a better rail system and often better public transportation.

Here in the US the cost of gas is hurting people who have to drive to work everyday. No, it hasn't put them into the streets but money doesn;t come from nowhere. The more you pay for gas the more people will simply have to make do without something else. Or, if possible they have to drive and travel less.

[n2ize]

That's pretty much the problem, unless 'alternatives' become the norm and not an 'alternative' then nothing will change anytime soon. Sadly, that is the case.
I say just stop buying fuel unless you absolutely have to for the necessities of life, work, school, whatever the case may be.


People are already doing this. Or, they are buying less of other things. many people depend on cars to get to work. many people are driving 20 - 50+ miles per day to get to/from work. The extra money they spend on gas means less money for other things. As prices continue to rise it will get worst.

[N4VGB]

They also have a better rail system and often better public transportation.

Here in the US the cost of gas is hurting people who have to drive to work everyday. No, it hasn't put them into the streets but money doesn;t come from nowhere. The more you pay for gas the more people will simply have to make do without something else. Or, if possible they have to drive and travel less.

We have bus service in this small area that I live in!? It requires that you invest far more time in the commute and few of the biggest local whiners over gas prices even bother to use the service. The "park & ride" lots sit almost empty!

You seem to believe that rail transport in Europe is a fee thing!? Seems strange that a genuine Brit made a post complaining about the cost of rail transport in England lately on QRZ!?

[KU0DM]

Mass transit has multiple advantages. Cheaper, better for the environment, plus there are so many characters riding mass transit, you will have seen it all!

I was in Boston over the summer, and they have an amazing subway system. VERY efficient, very fast, and very easy to use. Chicago...not so much.

I think Europe is probably better off when gas hits high, the reason is because the buildings in the main cities are pretty close. You can walk almost everywhere is what my cousin said once he got back from England, and a friend said the same about Spain. That is also why Europeans aren't as large as America is on average.

The problem with America is that the further west you go, the more spread out everything is. People wanted more land, more space, and the developers spread properties and business apart. Now that is coming back to bite us in the finals. So most people need to drive from point A to point B, because point B was built to far away from point A.

[N4VGB]

Mass transit has multiple advantages. Cheaper, better for the environment, plus there are so many characters riding mass transit, you will have seen it all!

I was in Boston over the summer, and they have an amazing subway system. VERY efficient, very fast, and very easy to use. Chicago...not so much.

I think Europe is probably better off when gas hits high, the reason is because the buildings in the main cities are pretty close. You can walk almost everywhere is what my cousin said once he got back from England, and a friend said the same about Spain. That is also why Europeans aren't as large as America is on average.

The problem with America is that the further west you go, the more spread out everything is. People wanted more land, more space, and the developers spread properties and business apart. Now that is coming back to bite us in the finals. So most people need to drive from point A to point B, because point B was built to far away from point A.

AH gee, really? :D

Spent 6 weeks in Boston several years back and listened to a steady flow of whining from them about how they're forced to live by their politicians and the crushing taxes & fees there. I guess they didn't feel like their rail system was worth the expense. I tend to form my views from what residents of an area tell me and not from visitors there.

Your cousin must be an exceptionally healthy lad to have walked the whole of London, big place.

[KC2ESD]

Well it only cost me $27 to fill up the Focus this week.:D

[KU0DM]

Your cousin must be an exceptionally healthy lad to have walked the whole of London, big place.

Never said whole of London, I said

You can walk almost everywhere is what my cousin said once he got back from England

That means wherever he needed to go, with a few exceptions, he could walk there.

Spent 6 weeks in Boston several years back and listened to a steady flow of whining from them about how they're forced to live by their politicians and the crushing taxes & fees there. I guess they didn't feel like their rail system was worth the expense. I tend to form my views from what residents of an area tell me and not from visitors there.

OK, that's fine. But I wonder how many would be the first to say "I'm not paying for that". I doubt many of them would, maybe a few. The reason is they don't like the taxes, but many like the subway more than walking. I prefer to walk or ride my bike, but many don't. Plus I am sure many feel differently. I think that is wise, draw conclusions on more rigid facts, but for a n accurate conclusion you will need to get the opinion of a wide range of Bostonians.
Just a few won't cut it.

[N4VGB]

I think that is wise, draw conclusions on more rigid facts, but for a n accurate conclusion you will need to get the opinion of a wide range of Bostonians.
Just a few won't cut it.


Well I'm sure you contacted more Bostonians in your visit than I did in my 6 week stay there. :)

I did enjoy watching the Bruins but the game of hockey kept getting in the way of the good fights. :D

[KU0DM]

Well I'm sure you contacted more Bostonians in your visit than I did in my 6 week stay there. :)

I did enjoy watching the Bruins but the game of hockey kept getting in the way of the good fights. :D

No, but I talked to a friend who lives in Boston, he said basically what I said.

I did enjoy watching the Bruins but the game of hockey kept getting in the way of the good fights.

Yeah, some of those fights would get better ratings than the game itself. :p

[N4VGB]

Yeah, some of those fights would get better ratings than the game itself. :p

Hockey is always a fast game but is usually a low scoring game when quality teams are playing. In lieu of scores, the fight action seems to keep the fans happy. Until that Bruins game and info provided by other fans there, I had no idea that each team had designated "enforcers" to do the majority of the fighting. Interesting game and we even have a pro team in Nashville now, but it's a bit of a drive from home to see them play there.

[ab1ga]

I've lived in the Boston area for 22 years, and the biggest complaint involving commuting I've heard hasn't been the T (rail line) or even the Big Dig, but the high cost of parking in the downtown area, or the traffic on the circumferential highway (128/95).

The subways and commuter rails are pretty much packed, and the commuter park and ride garages fill up by 8:00 or so, so that bit's working.

The major shortcoming of mass transit projects is they usually assume folks will commute from the suburbs into the city, like spokes on a wheel. What happened here is that new business spread along the rim of the wheel. Suburb-to-suburb commuting is the norm, and it's very difficult to make rail pay under those circumstances.

[n0ov]

And back in Kansas City stupid city leaders can't make up their mind about lite rail 20 years and counting..................

[kg4kww]

Folks the price of fuel is having an effect on the price of funerals too!! so, don't forget that. I think congress has been bought by big oil and that's why congress will not do anything.

BTW, it's also affecting the price of ham rigs too

So, I want all of you to bend over for big oil and smile.

[PA5COR]

My van runs fine on veggie oil, lots cheaper, and environmentally friendlier too.

One advantage of an older type diesel engine.

[w2amr]

No, but I talked to a friend who lives in Boston, he said basically what I said.



Yeah, some of those fights would get better ratings than the game itself. :p
Much of the bad stuff such as stick fights and bench clearing brawls have been legislated out , and the sport has become better as a result.

[W8EJO]

There is only one bogeyman in the oil & gas market & it is not the "greedy" oil company or the "wasteful" American consumer. Both are simply operating in the existing marketplace just as we all do every day as we either produce or consume various products.

The one and only bogeyman is the RADICAL ENVIROMENTALIST.

Imagine any other market where as demand soared the supply was kept stagnant. Take PC’s. We all own one or more & no one could argue that demand has not soared over the last 20 years. But unlike the energy industry the supply of PC’s has kept up to demand leading to lower market prices. It’s not that Intel stockholders are less greedy than Exxon stockholders. It’s that government has not artificially limited production of chips.

Our nation’s energy policies, bullied as they’ve been by enviro-radicals, are rapidly leading our nation and our way of life to an early and untimely death. If continued, these policies will mean a dark hard future for our children and grandchildren.

I love clean water & fresh air. I’ve never met anyone who doesn’t. In that sense we are all environmentalists but the supply of oil & gas & electricity is being kept artificially low buy the radical environmentalists in & out of government while the demand keeps increasing. The result is painfully predictable – higher & higher prices. The prices will continue to climb until we have the guts to stand up & put a stop to the insanity & stop groveling at the feet of the Sierra Club (et al).

With today’s modern, clean drilling techniques we could successfully & cleanly recover the 10.5 billion barrels in ANWAR and the 115 billion barrels off the Florida coast. (For reference we’ll import about 4 billion barrels in 2008 meaning these reserves alone would add 31 years to our supply). This is just the oil. There is also 650 trillion cubic feet of natural gas in these reserves. But the radical environmentalists in and out of our government have stymied the recovery of this oil forcing soaring fuel prices and extreme economic hardship on us all. Lack of new refineries, summer boutique fuels and no new nuke plants in decades are also limiting energy supply leading to higher prices.

The continuation of these suicidal policies will lead to the death of our way of life (you can see the ends start to fray allready) and sentence our children and grandchildren to a life of unending hardship. Right thinking Americans must call their elected officials today & bitch loudly & angrily. Tell them to stop the insanity before it’s too late.

[KD7ZRT]

many people depend on cars to get to work. many people are driving 20 - 50+ miles per day to get to/from work.

Well that's silly of them... I just bike ~0.5 miles or so.

Maybe its time for us to start building cities and then... you know, living in them.

[N4VGB]

My van runs fine on veggie oil, lots cheaper, and environmentally friendlier too.

One advantage of an older type diesel engine.

Think I'll run that one past my neighbor that uses the used veggie oil for making his biodiesel, from the local fast food restaurants. We're all sick of smelling fish, chicken & french fries daily around here. I don't see why virgin veggie oil purchased in bulk couldn't be used also? Should do away with the foul odors his vehicle emits. :)

[n2ize]

There is only one bogeyman in the oil & gas market & it is not the "greedy" oil company or the "wasteful" American consumer. Both are simply operating in the existing marketplace just as we all do every day as we either produce or consume various products.

The one and only bogeyman is the RADICAL ENVIROMENTALIST.

Imagine any other market where as demand soared the supply was kept stagnant. Take PC’s. We all own one or more & no one could argue that demand has not soared over the last 20 years. But unlike the energy industry the supply of PC’s has kept up to demand leading to lower market prices. It’s not that Intel stockholders are less greedy than Exxon stockholders. It’s that government has not artificially limited production of chips.

Our nation’s energy policies, bullied as they’ve been by enviro-radicals, are rapidly leading our nation and our way of life to an early and untimely death. If continued, these policies will mean a dark hard future for our children and grandchildren.

I love clean water & fresh air. I’ve never met anyone who doesn’t. In that sense we are all environmentalists but the supply of oil & gas & electricity is being kept artificially low buy the radical environmentalists in & out of government while the demand keeps increasing. The result is painfully predictable – higher & higher prices. The prices will continue to climb until we have the guts to stand up & put a stop to the insanity & stop groveling at the feet of the Sierra Club (et al).

With today’s modern, clean drilling techniques we could successfully & cleanly recover the 10.5 billion barrels in ANWAR and the 115 billion barrels off the Florida coast. (For reference we’ll import about 4 billion barrels in 2008 meaning these reserves alone would add 31 years to our supply). This is just the oil. There is also 650 trillion cubic feet of natural gas in these reserves. But the radical environmentalists in and out of our government have stymied the recovery of this oil forcing soaring fuel prices and extreme economic hardship on us all. Lack of new refineries, summer boutique fuels and no new nuke plants in decades are also limiting energy supply leading to higher prices.

The continuation of these suicidal policies will lead to the death of our way of life (you can see the ends start to fray allready) and sentence our children and grandchildren to a life of unending hardship. Right thinking Americans must call their elected officials today & bitch loudly & angrily. Tell them to stop the insanity before it’s too late.

Actually oil companies have been givenclearance to build and operate additional refineries and they declined. To argue that rising oil prices is due to some radical environmental bogeyman is ludicrous and indicated a clear misunderstanding of the oil market.

[N4VGB]

Actually oil companies have been given clearance to build and operate additional refineries and they declined. To argue that rising oil prices is due to some radical environmental bogeyman is ludicrous and indicated a clear misunderstanding of the oil market.

The old refineries operate under a grandfather clause in EPA regualtions. A new one would be very expensive to conform to the newest regulations. Not to mention all the talk of alternative fuels use making that investment not so appealing to any investor. With Honda just bringing the first hydrogen fueled vehicle to market, I would be more prone to make an investment in distributing hydrogen myself.

If there's to be a massive move from refined crude, it would be a very unwise investment at this time.

[KC0ZQA]

A refinery near Yuma Arizona has been in planning for nearly a decade. Red tape, regulations, and lawsuits have been the primary factors keeping it back. Given the insane hurdles and timeline required to get a new refinery operating its no wonder companies would rather just import the refined fuel.

I've heard of another one proposed in the Dakotas. Who wants to place bets on how many decades it takes before it becomes reality?

If operating a refinery was such a get rich quick opportunity you would see them sprouting up all over the place. You would think entrepeneurs would be jumping all over the chance. The regulations make it nearly impossible however.

[W4INF]

Note to self: Continue to look for that 3 cyl. Suzuki Swift... 45mpg is satisfactory.

[KB9BVN]

I need a car that goes 80 MPH and can get 45 MPG or better on cheap fuel. It also has to be able to carry at least one driver and two adult passengers.

Gasoline, diesel, vegetable oil, nuke, hydrogen, manure, old beer cans and cigarette butts, used disposable baby diapers, or solar/lunar power is fine as long as it's cheap, plentiful, and available almost everywhere.

[W8EJO]

Actually oil companies have been givenclearance to build and operate additional refineries and they declined. To argue that rising oil prices is due to some radical environmental bogeyman is ludicrous and indicated a clear misunderstanding of the oil market.



A few facts for the misinformed/uninformed:

1)
Ken Alltucker
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 19, 2006 12:00 AM

" Arizona Clean Fuels most significant milestone has been receiving an air-quality permit in May from the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality. It's the only proposed refinery in more than three decades to obtain such a permit."


2)
Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:46pm EDT
(Reuters) - Florida Gov. Charlie Crist said on Tuesday he was firmly opposed to lifting a moratorium on oil drilling off the state's Gulf of Mexico coast.

"No oil drilling in the Gulf," Crist, a Republican who has made a name as an environmental campaigner since taking office in January, told the Reuters Global Environment Summit.

"I don't want them to drill off Florida's coast," Crist added in a teleconference call with Reuters correspondents from Miami, New York, Washington, Houston and London.


3)
The Watts Bar Nuclear Generating Station between the cities of Chattanooga and Knoxville. Watts Bar Unit 1 was the last civilian reactor to come on-line in the United States. Watts Bar supplies enough electricity for about 250,000 households in the Tennessee Valley.

This Unit 1 whose construction commenced in 1973 was completed in 1996, [note - that's 23 years]

Unit 2 was about 80% complete when its construction was stopped in 1988. The official reason given for halting construction was a decrease in demand for electricity, but the decision was hailed as a victory by anti-nuclear activists.

4)
ANWAR
The administration of U.S. President George W. Bush pushed to perform exploratory drilling for oil and gas in and around the refuge. The House of Representatives voted in mid-2000 to allow drilling. In April 2002, the Senate rejected it.

Arctic Refuge drilling was again approved by the House of Representatives as part of the Energy Bill on April 21, 2005,[7] but the Arctic Refuge provision was later removed by the House-Senate conference committee. The Senate passed Arctic Refuge drilling on March 16, 2005 as part of the federal budget resolution for fiscal year 2006.[8] That Arctic Refuge provision was removed during the reconciliation process, due to Democrats in the House of Representatives who signed a letter stating they would oppose any version of the budget that had Arctic Refuge drilling in it.[9]

On December 15, 2005, Sen. Ted Stevens (R-AK) attached an Arctic Refuge drilling amendment to the annual defense appropriations bill. A group of Democratic Senators led a successful filibustering of the bill on December 21, 2005, and the language was subsequently removed from the bill.[10]

[W8EJO]

I need a car that goes 80 MPH and can get 45 MPG or better on cheap fuel. It also has to be able to carry at least one driver and two adult passengers.

Gasoline, diesel, vegetable oil, nuke, hydrogen, manure, old beer cans and cigarette butts, used disposable baby diapers, or solar/lunar power is fine as long as it's cheap, plentiful, and available almost everywhere.

My 1993, 3 cylinder GEO Metro, purchase used for $1300, does all of the above.

[N2RJ]

I need a car that goes 80 MPH and can get 45 MPG or better on cheap fuel. It also has to be able to carry at least one driver and two adult passengers.

A prius or even a honda civic hybrid can do that quite comfortably.

One of my friends recently (last year) sold his Ford Taurus and bought a Prius. He didn't do it for environmental reasons or even the price of fuel. He did it because he's a tech geek and likes cool technology.

He was quite surprised at how roomy it was. He was also delighted that he now fills up on average once per month versus once every two weeks with the Taurus.

He's not a small guy either. He's 6' 4" and about 250 lbs. (Typical for a lot of hams, although he isn't one).

Another friend of mine bought a civic hybrid so he can use the HOV lane. To me that's the wrong reason to buy one, but nevertheless if it reduces the use of gasoline that's great. He's also not a little guy either and finds his HCH to have enough room for his daily commute and much more.

[W4HAY]

Why do you people keep buying status vehicles like SUV's, Hummers, Firebirds, Mustangs, F350 Pickup trucks and Lexis's. Guess some people have more money than sense.
Politically Incorrect Mode = ONEver tried hauling a horse trailer or bass boat, or packing home a few dozen bales of hay or a trophy buck with a Prius? Some of us prefer active, outdoor lifestyles, including the feel of a finely-tuned V8 when we step on the gas. Sure our vehicle cost more to operate, but we're willing to pay that cost. We worked our arses off to earn that money, and it's ours to spend as we see fit.Politically Incorrect Mode = OFF

If you want a gas-sipper, fine! Be our guest, and don't expect us to demonize you for exercising your God-given right to make that choice.

FWIW, I strongly suggest you quit sprawling glassy-eyed and slack-jawed in front of that boob-toob, subscribe to a couple of reputable financial publications, and find out what's REALLY going on in today's world.

Full disclosure here: For everyday use I drive a Suzuki XL-7 that gets about 25 MPG and a Miata that gets around 35. I tried the eco-cars and found them to be (1)unusable and (2)fiscally unjustifiable, based on my driving habits.

[N4VGB]

If you want a gas-sipper, fine! Be our guest, and don't expect us to demonize you for exercising your God-given right to make that choice.

FWIW, I strongly suggest you quit sprawling glassy-eyed and slack-jawed in front of that boob-toob, subscribe to a couple of reputable financial publications, and find out what's REALLY going on in today's world.


AMEN!!! :D:D:D

[KB9BVN]

My 1993, 3 cylinder GEO Metro, purchase used for $1300, does all of the above.

It runs on used disposable baby diapers?

[KB9BVN]

A prius or even a honda civic hybrid can do that quite comfortably.

No thanks. I drive 200 miles a day on highways filled with large sleepy trucks and truck drivers. I have seen the Prius in numerous crashes on I-74 and I-275 and the driver hardly ever lives.

Another friend of mine bought a civic hybrid so he can use the HOV lane. To me that's the wrong reason to buy one, but nevertheless if it reduces the use of gasoline that's great. He's also not a little guy either and finds his HCH to have enough room for his daily commute and much more.

What's an HOV lane?

[N4VGB]

What's an HOV lane?


High Occupancy Vehicle lane. Supposedly for vehicles with multiple commuters inside.

[W8EJO]

It runs on used disposable baby diapers?


Well I should have said almost all.

For trips longer than a few miles, I usually take my F-250 diesel for safety & comfort.

[k8wpj]

Don't need to haul them in the trailer. I'm using them to visit the local wally world when necessary. It's only about 3.5 miles, mostly on dirt roads. Nothing like driving a team of Percherons and a wagon to the store!

well that may work for you, in OK, but I suspect it might be met with some resistance in some more densely populated areas... I've tried the same thing here with the Dalamatians, and it was almost impossible to keep all 5 of them headed in the same direction....:D


Also show me one WalWart that has a hitching post...:rolleyes:

[KD0DKI]

I love my Jeep Wrangler Unlimited X.

[kg4kww]

dudes dudes dudes, fellow clients to be, the price of fuel is making a funeral cost more as well as your food, booze, beer, ice cream, candy, snacks, wine, women and song. It's time to get rid of the gas guzzlers and go back to the days of the VW Beatle.

Remember we had gas rationing under a dem president (Carter) not a rebublican.

[N2RJ]

dudes dudes dudes, fellow clients to be, the price of fuel is making a funeral cost more as well as your food, booze, beer, ice cream, candy, snacks, wine, women and song. It's time to get rid of the gas guzzlers and go back to the days of the VW Beatle.

How can you fit a coffin in a beetle?

Remember we had gas rationing under a dem president (Carter) not a rebublican.

We have record prices under BUSH!

[KA8NCR]

dudes dudes dudes, fellow clients to be, the price of fuel is making a funeral cost more as well as your food, booze, beer, ice cream, candy, snacks, wine, women and song. It's time to get rid of the gas guzzlers and go back to the days of the VW Beatle.

Remember we had gas rationing under a dem president (Carter) not a rebublican.

A gallon of quality wine which took decades to produce costs hundreds of dollars.

Gasoline on the other hand, has huge amounts of energy and took millions of years to create. And a gallon costs about $3.50. Now which is the better deal?

[n4cd]

When hybrid vehicles become more mainstream and all carmakers are building them, I'll consider buying one.

At the moment, I consider them a fad, that can very well die out.

Anyone remember General Motors' EV-1? :rolleyes:

Let's see...

Ford makes them - Explorer Hybrid

General Motors makes them - Tahoe and Yukon Hybrid, Silverado truck

Toyota - Insight, Prius,

Honda - Civic

lexus - hybrid

They make about 90% of the cars on the road. How much more mainstream do you have to be?

Oh, you want a hybrid Corvette or Porsche?

Cadillac is coming out with Escalade Hybrid.....

There will be a lot more hybrids coming.

[n4cd]

The old refineries operate under a grandfather clause in EPA regualtions. A new one would be very expensive to conform to the newest regulations. Not to mention all the talk of alternative fuels use making that investment not so appealing to any investor. With Honda just bringing the first hydrogen fueled vehicle to market, I would be more prone to make an investment in distributing hydrogen myself.

If there's to be a massive move from refined crude, it would be a very unwise investment at this time.


Refineries are currently running at 80% of capacity. More is coming on line. They can comfortably run at 90^

Shell and Saudi Aramco are doubling the capacity of a refinery in TX.

In the past 30 years, there has been NO NEED for more refineries. The existing ones have been expanded, and the process to make gasoline made more efficient. Ergo, no need for more refineries.

HOw some dimwit figured that 'refineries' are the problem is beyond anyone with math skills. Take 80% of capacity. Figure out that if demand went up b 10%, there would still be ample refinery capacity.

In the past year, demand for gasoline has gone down 0.9%, not up.

Why would any sane business invest even more in adding extra capacity that wasn't needed?

it would be like you buying a vehicle that was 30% too large for you, and guzzled 20% more gas....just so you had 'more capacity' that you would never use!. Uneconomic!

Since Congress has mandated tens of bilions of gallons of ethanol be used, there is even LESS need for refined gas, since up to 10% of what goes in your tank is 'ethanol'. And Congress wants to make that 15%, meaning refineries will run at even LOWER levels.

Duh! The stupid talking head on TV! They are so clueless it isn't funny. It is pathetic.

[kg4kww]

N2RJ--How can you fit a coffin in a beetle?


very carefully

[N4VGB]

We have record prices under BUSH!


And a Democrat controlled Congress with Pelosi claiming a plan to lower prices back in 2006!? Sure is taking a long time to release that plan!? :rolleyes:

[kf6rdn]

Let's see...

Ford makes them - Explorer Hybrid

General Motors makes them - Tahoe and Yukon Hybrid, Silverado truck

Toyota - Insight, Prius,

Honda - Civic

lexus - hybrid

They make about 90% of the cars on the road. How much more mainstream do you have to be?

Oh, you want a hybrid Corvette or Porsche?

Cadillac is coming out with Escalade Hybrid.....

There will be a lot more hybrids coming.

Can I get one of these in hybrid?


http://www.freedomcycle.ca/images/zx14r_001.JPG

Torque (http://www.bikez.com/jargon/index.php#Torque):153.90 Nm (http://www.bikez.com/jargon/index.php#Nm) (15.7 kgf-m (http://www.bikez.com/jargon/index.php#kgf-m) or 113.5 ft.lbs (http://www.bikez.com/jargon/index.php#ft.lbs)) @ 7500 RPM (http://www.bikez.com/jargon/index.php#Revolutions)





very carefully

HA!! Good one!