Government Schools: Awful Performance Doesn't Come Cheap

[KG4JYD]

Washington D.C.'s "public" (government) schools are often denounced for their wretched performance. Students incarcerated in that system regularly rank near the bottom in tests that measure academic achievement.

Yet, according to the Cato Institute's Andrew J. Coulson, bad schooling in dangerous and dilapidated buildings doesn't come cheap.

The average cost of educating a child in Washington D.C.'s school system is "close to $25,000 per child -- on par with tuition at Sidwell Friends, the private school Chelsea Clinton attended in the 1990s," Coulson says.

For comparison, notes Coulson: "total per-pupil spending at D.C. area private schools -- among the most upscale in the nation -- averages about $10,000 less. For most private schools, the difference is even greater."






(Sources: Washington Post: The Real Cost Of Public Schools: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/04/AR2008040402921.html

Washington Post: Can D.C. Schools Be Fixed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/09/AR2007060901415.html )

[N4VGB]

You must remember that metal detectors at the entrances and well trained drug sniffing dogs are expensive items, stationing law enforcement officers at each school is expensive also. Then there's the fact that an extremely high ratio of administrators is needed for public schools per the dictates of the U.S. Dept. of Education.

Come on people, ya really didn't think that Jimmy Carter turning your formerly locally operated school systems into a U.S. government bureaucracy under the strict control of his U.S. Dept. of Education would be a good thing!?

[K3XR]

Steve Jobs gets it, and he's no right winger.

http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/02/steve_jobs_says.html

[N4VGB]

Steve Jobs gets it, and he's no right winger.


Jobs is just mad that he wasted all those free Apples on the public school system. :D

[AE6IP]

You must remember that metal detectors at the entrances and well trained drug sniffing dogs are expensive items, stationing law enforcement officers at each school is expensive also. Then there's the fact that an extremely high ratio of administrators is needed for public schools per the dictates of the U.S. Dept. of Education.

Come on people, ya really didn't think that Jimmy Carter turning your formerly locally operated school systems into a U.S. government bureaucracy under the strict control of his U.S. Dept. of Education would be a good thing!?

People have been complaining about, and attempting to reform, public education in the United States for over 100 years. Many things have been tried, and the quality has changed little in that time. It fluctuates, but it never trends either up or down for very long.

Carter never turned the 'formerly locally' schools into a bureaucracy under the 'strict control' of the D of Education. Had he done so, there would have been no room for Bush II's "No child" nonsense.

Education in the US is abysmal, not because of Federal intervention, but because too many different people want the public school system to meet too many conflicting goals. We've never, in the last 150 years, had a consistent view of what public education should be, nor a consistent set of goals for what it should achieve.

Local control fails as often as Federal intervention does, as anyone familiar with, for instance, the situation in Richmond CA, can attest, and no, you can't lay the blame there on either Federal Intervention or the NEA or the teacher's unions.

[K3XR]

People have been complaining about, and attempting to reform, public education in the United States for over 100 years. Many things have been tried, and the quality has changed little in that time. It fluctuates, but it never trends either up or down for very long.

Carter never turned the 'formerly locally' schools into a bureaucracy under the 'strict control' of the D of Education. Had he done so, there would have been no room for Bush II's "No child" nonsense.

Education in the US is abysmal, not because of Federal intervention, but because too many different people want the public school system to meet too many conflicting goals. We've never, in the last 150 years, had a consistent view of what public education should be, nor a consistent set of goals for what it should achieve.

Local control fails as often as Federal intervention does, as anyone familiar with, for instance, the situation in Richmond CA, can attest, and no, you can't lay the blame there on either Federal Intervention or the NEA or the teacher's unions.

Oh no, the teachers can't have anything to do with it.
http://www.teachersunionexposed.com/

[N4VGB]

Carter never turned the 'formerly locally' schools into a bureaucracy under the 'strict control' of the D of Education. Had he done so, there would have been no room for Bush II's "No child" nonsense.


So you're actually unaware of how much control the U.S. Dept. of Education wields over your local public school system? It's a matter of conform to our guidelines or lose funding. Same tactic used by every Dept. of the U.S. Government to control your state and local government. The GivMint says do it our way or no funding. Can't lose those free dollars from D.C.!

[AE6IP]

So you're actually unaware of how much control the U.S. Dept. of Education wields over your local public school system?

I'm fully aware.

It's a matter of conform to our guidelines or lose funding.

And those guidelines don't spell out control as much as you seem to think they do. But your claim was that Carter was responsible for them, and most of the burden lies with Dubya and his misguided 'no child left behind'.

Same tactic used by every Dept. of the U.S. Government to control your state and local government.

Reminds me of the 55 mph speed limit. MT got around it by making the 55 mph ticket not count against points and rarely enforcing it. NV got around it by telling the feds to keep their money.

The GivMint says do it our way or no funding. Can't lose those free dollars from D.C.!

You mustn't have been paying attention in the thread about federal funding. CA sends more money to the feds than we gets back. (We get 75 cents in federal spending for every dollar we pay in federal taxes.)

We're also the state that most often challenges federal regulations, and most often wins those challenges.

You're actually examplifying the reason why the education debate hasn't been settled in 100 plus years in this country, by trying to oversimplify the problem to sound-bite level.

The root cause isn't Carter. It's not federal funding or the strings that go with it. It's not even "nickle-B" (which is how most k-12 educators seem to pronounce NCLB) as bad as that is. It's not the teacher's unions.

It is, as I've said already, that there has never been a consensus, even at the local level, on what a public education should be, and there have always been too many groups with too many conflicting demands on education.

That is why over 100 years of attempted education reform has failed.

[N4VGB]

It is, as I've said already, that there has never been a consensus, even at the local level, on what a public education should be, and there have always been too many groups with too many conflicting demands on education.


Then private schools should be no better than public schools, if that was the problem? It's a pretty diverse group of parents & kids at private schools also. The number of teacher applications at private schools is much higher than at public schools and they have no union representation? Either your students knock the socks off the achievement tests or you're out the door at private schools, no union to save your butt and make sure that year after year of sub par students are created by your incompetence.

The only "consensus" needed is demanding the best that each kid is capable of producing and that they conduct themselves in a civil manner.

[n2ize]

People have been complaining about, and attempting to reform, public education in the United States for over 100 years. Many things have been tried, and the quality has changed little in that time. It fluctuates, but it never trends either up or down for very long.

Carter never turned the 'formerly locally' schools into a bureaucracy under the 'strict control' of the D of Education. Had he done so, there would have been no room for Bush II's "No child" nonsense.

Education in the US is abysmal, not because of Federal intervention, but because too many different people want the public school system to meet too many conflicting goals. We've never, in the last 150 years, had a consistent view of what public education should be, nor a consistent set of goals for what it should achieve.

Local control fails as often as Federal intervention does, as anyone familiar with, for instance, the situation in Richmond CA, can attest, and no, you can't lay the blame there on either Federal Intervention or the NEA or the teacher's unions.

And yet, with all it's shortcomings it has worked surprisingly well considering it's educational alternative...nothing.

[AE6IP]

Then private schools should be no better than public schools, if that was the problem?

Private schools don't have nearly the diversity of opinion on their goals. With private schools, the schools tend to set the goals and the parents tend to pick schools whose goals align with their desires.

The number of teacher applications at private schools is much higher than at public schools and they have no union representation?

This isn't true in general. Many private schools go begging for staff.

Either your students knock the socks off the achievement tests or you're out the door at private schools, no union to save your butt and make sure that year after year of sub par students are created by your incompetence.

This isn't true in general of private schools. You're making the common mistake of considering the creme of private schools as if they were the totality of private schools.

The overwhelming majority of private schools are religious schools, and they have neither a better nor worse record than public schools for teacher retention or student performance.

The only "consensus" needed is demanding the best that each kid is capable of producing and that they conduct themselves in a civil manner.

Another example of sound-bite rhetoric. The best "what"? How do you know what the best a specific kid is capable of producing is? You've completely ignored the curriculum, which is the major sore spot in most education reforms.

If you really care about school reform, I recommend as a starting point the book Left Back: A Century of Battles over School Reform by Diane Ravitch.

[N4VGB]

None can testify to knowledge of schools except in their own experience and area, that's not using a "soundbite" approach, it's just using what you know is factual in your own experience.

Everything I've stated is true in this area and from my own experience.

[AE6IP]

None can testify to knowledge of schools except in their own experience and area, that's not using a "soundbite" approach, it's just using what you know is factual in your own experience.[quote]

One who has such a limited awareness of the subject is not well placed to make pronouncements about either the causes nor the cures of the problem.

[quote]Everything I've stated is true in this area and from my own experience.

You have no religious schools in TN? I find that very difficult to believe.

It is well documented that religious schools do no better on standardized tests than public schools in any given area of the country.

[KB9BVN]

If I had school age children right now, home schooling would be my choice. My grandkids are not school age yet, I hope they get home schooled.

[K3XR]

[QUOTE=N4VGB;1203057]None can testify to knowledge of schools except in their own experience and area, that's not using a "soundbite" approach, it's just using what you know is factual in your own experience.[quote]

One who has such a limited awareness of the subject is not well placed to make pronouncements about either the causes nor the cures of the problem.



You have no religious schools in TN? I find that very difficult to believe.

It is well documented that religious schools do no better on standardized tests than public schools in any given area of the country.

Sorry, can't seem to find your links to that "well documented" information.

[N4VGB]

[QUOTE=N4VGB;1203057]None can testify to knowledge of schools except in their own experience and area, that's not using a "soundbite" approach, it's just using what you know is factual in your own experience.[quote]

One who has such a limited awareness of the subject is not well placed to make pronouncements about either the causes nor the cures of the problem.



You have no religious schools in TN? I find that very difficult to believe.

It is well documented that religious schools do no better on standardized tests than public schools in any given area of the country.

We do indeed have religious private schools, secular private schools and a rapidly expanding group of home schoolers. I can assure you that in my area all 3 of these regularly outscore the public school students on standardized tests and by a wide margin.

Two of our local private schools draw students from around the world. It saved me a lot of money when my son started his first year of college and several of the books needed turned out to be already in his possession from the 8th & 9th grade of private high school.

I think your teachers union card is showing here Marty. :)

[AE6IP]

We do indeed have religious private schools, secular private schools and a rapidly expanding group of home schoolers. I can assure you that in my area all 3 of these regularly outscore the public school students on standardized tests and by a wide margin.

I hope you don't mind that I find your assurances not at all reassuring.

You would not, by any chance, have any documentation to support that assertion?

Nah, I thought not.

I think your teachers union card is showing here Marty.

Not a union I've ever belong to. All my teaching experience has been at the collegiate level.

[AE6IP]

[QUOTE=AE6IP;1203073][QUOTE=N4VGB;1203057]None can testify to knowledge of schools except in their own experience and area, that's not using a "soundbite" approach, it's just using what you know is factual in your own experience.

Sorry, can't seem to find your links to that "well documented" information.

Start here (http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/studies/2006461.asp)

[n2ize]

[QUOTE=K3XR;1203085][QUOTE=AE6IP;1203073]

Start here (http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/studies/2006461.asp)

That's very interesting. Thanks for that link.

[KG4JYD]

People have been complaining about, and attempting to reform, public education in the United States for over 100 years. Many things have been tried, and the quality has changed little in that time. It fluctuates, but it never trends either up or down for very long.Exactly. Which is why government should be abolished in favor of higher quality, more efficient, less expensive, free market schools which provide better choice.

[K3XR]

How DEMS harm Blacks....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=62299

[AE6IP]

Exactly. Which is why government should be abolished in favor of higher quality, more efficient, less expensive, free market schools which provide better choice.

Which part of "private schools are documented as being no better than public schools" are you having trouble understanding?

[K0RGR]

[quote=K3XR;1203085][quote=AE6IP;1203073]

Start here (http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/studies/2006461.asp)

A very interesting item -

And, supposedly, the private schools tend to get the children of those who are able to afford them, with all of their advantages. Maybe it would be smarter for these parents to send their kids to public school and spend the money on enrichment, rather than condemning the public system?

[N4VGB]

Start here (http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/studies/2006461.asp)


I would expect no less of an evaluation from the U.S. Dept. of Education. All U.S. government bureaucracies issue reports that prove their outstanding performance and wise use of the taxpayer's dollars.

At least your link proves one point for me. Since private school expenditures per student are a fraction of public school expenditures per student, who uses the money more wisely!?

It makes the U.S. Dept. of Education look pathetic to me, by wasting millions of taxpayer dollars running a "Center" whose only purpose is to make them look good!?

[n2ize]

I would expect no less of an evaluation from the U.S. Dept. of Education. All U.S. government bureaucracies issue reports that prove their outstanding performance and wise use of the taxpayer's dollars.

Instead of attacking the producers of the report why don't you take the key findings of the report and prove them wrong, one by one using viable data from credible sources. Unless you can show the statements and conclusions made in the report are incorrect or misleading then the argument youmake here is without merit.


At least your link proves one point for me. Since private school expenditures per student are a fraction of public school expenditures per student, who uses the money more wisely!?


There are also quite a few variables that need to be accounted for.


It makes the U.S. Dept. of Education look pathetic to me, by wasting millions of taxpayer dollars running a "Center" whose only purpose is to make them look good!?

Again, you argumentss have absolutely no merit nor credibility until you address the conclusions of the report piece by peice with credible research and data proving that the report is wrong. Simply saying that because the report was issued by the Dept of Education therefore it's wrong is invalid.

[N4VGB]

Instead of attacking the producers of the report why don't you take the key findings of the report and prove them wrong, one by one using viable data from credible sources.


Actually the report starts off showing a slight edge to the private schools and then makes an excuse for redefining the results!? Get real! :rolleyes:

The report is being done by an actual office of the U.S. Dept. of Education, they're not going to shoot themselves in the foot. ;)

My statements on this topic were and still are from my personal experience in my own area, I care little for the national average involved and it is a right of every person to enroll their children in private schools if they desire or home school if they desire. Only those involved in the free money involved in public education and the maintenance of high enrollment levels for the purpose of acquiring all that free money get upset by alternative school options. :p

The top students in our two best local private schools pick which top ranked/ivy league type university they're going to accept a free ride from and their percentage of graduating students attending college is nearly 100%. Those results speak for themselves.

[KV1M]

Actually the report starts off showing a slight edge to the private schools and then makes an excuse for redefining the results!? Get real! :rolleyes:

The report is being done by an actual office of the U.S. Dept. of Education, they're not going to shoot themselves in the foot. ;)




How gullible do you have to be! Sheesh!

They sure ARE trying to shoot themselves in the foot, the head of the Department was appointed by Bush to do just that very thing!

Could you be any more oblivious?

[N4VGB]

They sure ARE trying to shoot themselves in the foot, the head of the Department was appointed by Bush to do just that very thing!


Might be true, Margaret Spellings is a product of the public school system! :p

[N9XR]

Might be true, Margaret Spellings is a product of the public school system! :p

It sure smells like Jethro is passing elitism wind on here.

Whewie. Open a window.

[N4VGB]

It sure smells like Jethro is passing elitism wind on here.

Whewie. Open a window.

What is "elitist" about my post? My preference for private and home schooling makes me an elitist? :confused:

[N5NPO]

wrong with government schools in our country. We have some of the finest teachers and educators in the world. All our schools need is more funding. The greedy rich and corporate America should dole out more to educate our children. In those schools that have problems, it is because of lack of funding and inequallity between districts.
If the governement had more control over the children and their home life, things would also improve.

[N9XR]

What is "elitist" about my post? My preference for private and home schooling makes me an elitist? :confused:

<CLUE> You can't bash someone for the "lowly" education that they received without sounding elitist. </CLUE>

[n2ize]

Actually the report starts off showing a slight edge to the private schools and then makes an excuse for redefining the results!? Get real! :rolleyes:

The report is being done by an actual office of the U.S. Dept. of Education, they're not going to shoot themselves in the foot. ;)

My statements on this topic were and still are from my personal experience in my own area, I care little for the national average involved and it is a right of every person to enroll their children in private schools if they desire or home school if they desire. Only those involved in the free money involved in public education and the maintenance of high enrollment levels for the purpose of acquiring all that free money get upset by alternative school options. :p

The top students in our two best local private schools pick which top ranked/ivy league type university they're going to accept a free ride from and their percentage of graduating students attending college is nearly 100%. Those results speak for themselves.


And, your attempt to negate the findings of the Dept of Education are still without merit. End of story.Class dismissed.

[n2ize]

wrong with government schools in our country. We have some of the finest teachers and educators in the world. All our schools need is more funding. The greedy rich and corporate America should dole out more to educate our children. In those schools that have problems, it is because of lack of funding and inequallity between districts.
If the governement had more control over the children and their home life, things would also improve.


Actually your attempts at sarcasm are true in many regards. We should be putting more resources towards education. That doesn't nessesarilly mean arbitrarilly handing out money. If we are half as vested in education as we are in war and killing we might not be slipping behind the rest of the world with regards to education. But le tme not venture too far into this topic. Trying to talk sensibility is an evil on this forum and falls upon deaf ears anyway.

[N4VGB]

<CLUE> You can't bash someone for the "lowly" education that they received without sounding elitist. </CLUE>

What is "lowly" about attending a public school with a higher level of spending per capita than a private school? :confused:

[N4VGB]

And, your attempt to negate the findings of the Dept of Education are still without merit. End of story.Class dismissed.

I certainly hope your class is dismissed permanently. :p

[n2ize]

I certainly hope your class is dismissed permanently. :p

Sorry chum... you failed.

[k0ews]

People have been complaining about, and attempting to reform, public education in the United States for over 100 years. Many things have been tried, and the quality has changed little in that time. It fluctuates, but it never trends either up or down for very long.

Carter never turned the 'formerly locally' schools into a bureaucracy under the 'strict control' of the D of Education. Had he done so, there would have been no room for Bush II's "No child" nonsense.

Education in the US is abysmal, not because of Federal intervention, but because too many different people want the public school system to meet too many conflicting goals. We've never, in the last 150 years, had a consistent view of what public education should be, nor a consistent set of goals for what it should achieve.

Local control fails as often as Federal intervention does, as anyone familiar with, for instance, the situation in Richmond CA, can attest, and no, you can't lay the blame there on either Federal Intervention or the NEA or the teacher's unions.

Bingo. Marty is right on the money on this one. There is a closet industry in educational reform. Every single President sets out to do it. Reagan had the Nation At Risk report, Bush was going to be the "Education President," Clinton had Goals 2000, and Bush has NCLB. None of them have brought about the desired results.
I'm a teacher with nearly 19 years experience. I say this because I've seen a few of these things. Successful kids are successful kids because of the preparation that they bring with them to school. If their parents follow up, make sure that the kids are doing what they are supposed to do, if they take an interest, communicate concerns with schools, their kids usually do fine. If they don't, the kids usually have trouble. There MUST be a home support system for students; something other than the schools. Those who have that do well. Those that don't, well, they don't.
I do like NCLB in the respect that I've seen it get some lazy teachers off their asses and teach. However, it's unfunded, vague, needs fixing, and really isn't any more effective than anything else that has been tried. We're quickly becoming a nation of haves and have-nots. The good parent will recognize this, and follow up the work at school with work at home.
One pet peave of mine with this generation of parenting that doesn't help; we're over-scheduling our kids to hell in a handbasket. It's the status symbol of this generation. Look how great of a parent I am; my kid is in all these things! Great; they turn out a jack of all trades and master of none. Kids these days barely have time to sleep much study. I'm in the minority, but my oldest son gets to go out for one, or at maximum, two activities at a time. School comes first.
You'd be amazed at how many families in which this isn't the case.

[N4VGB]

Sorry chum... you failed.

Oh now don't worry. The never ending flow of "free money" for colleges and life time students will continue. You're not in any jeopardy from any of the current presidential candidates or their parties. Take a deep breath and look around, your NYC existence is not threatened in any way. Relax. :D

[AE6IP]

I would expect no less of an evaluation from the U.S. Dept. of Education. All U.S. government bureaucracies issue reports that prove their outstanding performance and wise use of the taxpayer's dollars.

Alas, this cynicism contradicts your earlier cynicism. It would be in the DoEs interest to report that public schools are worse than private, but due to a lack of federal oversight, if they were operating in the bureacratic manner you suggest. This is not what is reported.

Also, the DoE's reports are consistent with a wide range of studies on the topic. There is much such documentary evidence if you'd rather look at data than make up your mind based on your prejudices. There is no documentation that private schools are in general better than public schools.

You would be better off understanding the report than attempting to attack the source.

[N4VGB]

You would be better off understanding the report than attempting to attack the source.


I could care less about public education. It's no longer an issue that I have any reason to consider.

I have no worries about how to grab more of that "free money" for education from the GivMint. That's your problem.

[n2ize]

Oh now don't worry. The never ending flow of "free money" for colleges and life time students will continue. You're not in any jeopardy from any of the current presidential candidates or their parties. Take a deep breath and look around, your NYC existence is not threatened in any way. Relax. :D

Seems like my educational background and my life in New York touches some sort of a nerve with you. You mention it an awful lot so apparently it's on your mind quite a bit. Far as "free money" goes, sorry again chum.I worked hard for my education and to maintain my present lifestyle here in the place I love to live. I put in plenty of long hard hours of work, time, and money into both my education and for everything I have earned. My payoff ? A deep feeling of satisfaction and productivity. I lovemyline of work, I love what I do, and I love where Ilive and I live life to the fullest that I can. If that somehow upsets you well, sorry, I can't help you.

[n2ize]

I could care less about public education. It's no longer an issue that I have any reason to consider.

I have no worries about how to grab more of that "free money" for education from the GivMint. That's your problem.

Good bailout. :D:D

[N4VGB]

I lovemyline of work, I love what I do, and I love where Ilive and I live life to the fullest that I can. If that somehow upsets you well, sorry, I can't help you.


Good for you and I'm happy for you. You are the one that seems to have a problem with the way others in this country live their lives.

I visited NYC regularly, 2-3 times yearly, on business for several years and can't honestly say that I enjoyed it much after the initial sightseeing adventures. Very good restaurants and plenty of them was about the only feature I really enjoyed. It's great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

[N4VGB]

Good bailout. :D:D

Not a "bailout" at all, just fact. Oops, I forgot, those are not allowed. :)

[n2ize]

Good for you and I'm happy for you. You are the one that seems to have a problem with the way others in this country live their lives.


No, I don't have a problem with how others live their lives. However, when i read something I disagree with I am going to mention it. Now if you equate that with having a problem with how other people live their lives then I can't help you.


I visited NYC regularly, 2-3 times yearly, on business for several years and can't honestly say that I enjoyed it much after the initial sightseeing adventures. Very good restaurants and plenty of them was about the only feature I really enjoyed. It's great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.


Good. You live where you like to. The NYC way of living is not for everybody. It does tend to have more of an appeal for those of us who were born and raised here and sense that there is no other place like home.

Incidentally when I speak of the diversity in where I live I am speaking of New York State as a whole, not just NYC. Most of NYS is quite rural.

[N4VGB]

Incidentally when I speak of the diversity in where I live I am speaking of New York State as a whole, not just NYC. Most of NYS is quite rural.


That is something that we regret not having the needed time to do, tour the state. The black bears in the mountains bother me little since we regularly have seen them walking around here.

[AE6IP]

I could care less about public education. It's no longer an issue that I have any reason to consider.

That is a naive and short sighted position to be taking. Private education in the US is of no higher quality than public, and the two together rank poorly in the developed world.

In a world where competition is increasingly knowledge based, those dumb Americans you decry, are the people who make or break the economy in which you exist. An informed electorate and a competitive work force are definitely in your interest.

[N4VGB]

In a world where competition is increasingly knowledge based, those dumb Americans you decry, are the people who make or break the economy in which you exist. An informed electorate and a competitive work force are definitely in your interest.


Now there's a pair of sentences that form a true oxymoron!? :eek:

"Dumb Americans" and an "informed electorate" presented as one entity!? :confused:

[n2ize]

Now there's a pair of sentences that form a true oxymoron!? :eek:

"Dumb Americans" and an "informed electorate" presented as one entity!? :confused:

Go back and re-read what he wrote. Apparently you missed something.

[KD0DKI]

Wisconsin and Minnesota public schools rank very high 1 and 2 respectively. The high school my son will go to next year has about 90% of it's students go to college.

Wow 2 states with a lot of people who care about the education of their kids. It's not a national problem it's a local problem.

D.C. is about the most corrupt city in the world.

[k8wpj]

It's great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.


That is certainly your choice...

I for one, can see where city living would have many advantages, and wouldn't bash someone if they felt differently.

[KV1M]

Go back and re-read what he wrote. Apparently you missed something.

You give him too much credit.

[N4VGB]

You give him too much credit.

I never use credit these days. No longer have need of it. :p

[N5NPO]

Actually your attempts at sarcasm are true in many regards. We should be putting more resources towards education. That doesn't nessesarilly mean arbitrarilly handing out money. If we are half as vested in education as we are in war and killing we might not be slipping behind the rest of the world with regards to education. But le tme not venture too far into this topic. Trying to talk sensibility is an evil on this forum and falls upon deaf ears anyway.

Oh boy... We agree on something at least... Education should be the biggiest expense to the governement. Education is the most important thing governement does. The Children depend on it. Look at all the money the governement arbitrarilly hands out for "National Defense". Most of it is just wasted on fat cat capitalists running the military-industrial complex that controls so many of the politicians in this country. Thank goodness Hillary is not controlled by them. She will put our education on track to be a shinning example to the world.
Hillary 08!

[KG4JYD]

So you're actually unaware of how much control the U.S. Dept. of Education wields over your local public school system? It's a matter of conform to our guidelines or lose funding. Same tactic used by every Dept. of the U.S. Government to control your state and local government. The GivMint says do it our way or no funding. Can't lose those free dollars from D.C.!Correct. This is why the socialistic 16th and 17th Amendments both need to be repealed!!!

[K3XR]

The Obama, terorrist, education connection.

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/bill_ayers_and_the_subversion.html

[KG4JYD]

And those guidelines don't spell out control as much as you seem to think they do. But your claim was that Carter was responsible for them, and most of the burden lies with Dubya and his misguided 'no child left behind'.When did you graduate from high school? I graduated in May of 2000 and let me tell you the feds had their hands in my school system left and right.


Reminds me of the 55 mph speed limit. NV got around it by telling the feds to keep their money.

But it wasn't the Feds' money to begin with!!!! :mad:

[n2ize]

The Obama, terorrist, education connection.

http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/bill_ayers_and_the_subversion.html


Article written by and for those with no education.