View Full Version : Senator: "Taxation is Voluntary"
KG4JYD
04-22-2008, 04:33 AM
Video artist Jan Helfeld, infamous for his in-your-face Borat-style interviews of prominent figures, recently had the following surreal exchange with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid:
.............
HELFELD: If the government is in the business of forcefully taking money from some people in order to pay for the welfare of others, how will the people whose wealth is being taken feel about the government?
REID: Well, I don't accept your phraseology. I don't think we 'force.'
HELFELD: Taxation is not forceful?
REID: Well, no. In fact, quite to the contrary. Our system of government is a voluntary tax system.
.............
That's right the U.S. tax system is voluntary. And no one is forced to participate.
Of course, if you *don't* "volunteer," your property is seized, you face crippling financial penalties, and you may well go to jail.
Sorry, Senator Reid no one's buying it. If that's voluntary,' it's also voluntary when you give your wallet to the guy who steps out of an alley, points a gun at you, and snarls, "Your money or your life."
(Source: Free Liberal: http://www.freeliberal.com/blog/archives/003277.php )
AE6IP
04-22-2008, 04:38 AM
So what did you do, Matt, miss a quarterly estimated payment?
Matt's point is well taken, though. Ever since the passage of the 16th Amendment and subsequent enabling legislation, We the Sheeple have been fed the mantra of "taxation is voluntary" by our so-called "leaders."
Under the classic definition of "voluntary," one can (theoretically, at least) choose NOT to volunteer.
By way of example, our present all-volunteer armed forces are truly voluntary in that you can choose not to join, and no consequences in the form of government sanctions will attend your decision to not volunteer. However, can the same be said of the income tax? Try not volunteering to pay your income tax one year and see what happens.
To return to Matt's earlier example, I suppose that in the strictest sense one can choose not to give up one's valuables to an armed robber...if, that is, one is prepared to get shot.
Our income tax system works the same way. You are choosing between paying "protection" to be left alone, or being sent to jail. It's a choice between two lousy alternatives but technically you DO have a choice.
If taxation was "voluntary" in the classic sense of the word there would be no coercion involved. It is NOT voluntary, and we all know it.
N4VGB
04-22-2008, 11:04 AM
So what did you do, Matt, miss a quarterly estimated payment?
Now that is serious!!! :eek:
K8ERV
04-22-2008, 11:29 AM
[QUOTE=KG4JYD;1202718]
"Your money or your life."
.QUOTE]
I'm thinking, I'm thinking---
TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
KG4JYD
04-22-2008, 03:40 PM
So what did you do, Matt, miss a quarterly estimated payment?No. Why do you ask?
I seriously doubt you go to jail for not paying your taxes.
HOWEVER they do put you away for fraud. But if you file properly and do not pay, I believe you stay free. Yes, you may lose everything, but I don't think there is any jail time.
I could be wrong.
N4VGB
04-22-2008, 05:01 PM
I seriously doubt you go to jail for not paying your taxes.
HOWEVER they do put you away for fraud. But if you file properly and do not pay, I believe you stay free. Yes, you may lose everything, but I don't think there is any jail time.
I could be wrong.
The IRS is much kinder & gentler than in the past, they're actually pretty easy to work with these days.
A friend decided that he shouldn't have to file any longer because of his military service and as a bit of a protest. He went 6 years without filing! Last I heard on the subject he would have actually gotten refunds if he'd filed timely returns and the IRS seems to be calling the whole affair a wash? No mention of penalty for not filing in a timely manner.
The only thing the Senator from Nevada gets right is his crooked property dealings. On every other subject, including taxation, he is clueless.
I seriously doubt you go to jail for not paying your taxes.
HOWEVER they do put you away for fraud. But if you file properly and do not pay, I believe you stay free. Yes, you may lose everything, but I don't think there is any jail time.
I could be wrong.
They don't even really go after you unless you owe a large amount. Something like $70k + in taxes is what will get you sent to jail.
The IRS doesn't want bad press.
Correct
But if we fudge on our taxes we do get to go through the fun of an audit and participate in the ever so popular fines and penalties ritual.
And those my friend are NOT voluntary -- so I guess you could say that we can voluntary pay taxes or deal with the impacts of that decision when we are caught.
I guess if you're an elected official, that would make sense.
As for me, I'm going to take to asprine. Call me in the morning...........
:eek: :confused: :(
KG4JYD
04-23-2008, 12:32 PM
It is NOT voluntary, and we all know it.Very good points. However do realize that filing with the IRS is indeed voluntary and the IRS has admitted this.
Why?
Because the government can NOT force you to sign a document that can later be used against you. Signing your 1040 is an admission and if you ever end up in a trial the prosecutor will use it in their case against you. The Bill of Rights prohibits coerced or forced self incrimination and this qualifies.
Just try and not file:
Snipes imprisoned for three years for tax evasion. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7366211.stm)
KG4JYD
04-25-2008, 12:03 PM
I seriously doubt you go to jail for not paying your taxes.
HOWEVER they do put you away for fraud. But if you file properly and do not pay, I believe you stay free. Yes, you may lose everything, but I don't think there is any jail time.
I could be wrong.
Filing is actually indeed voluntary.