May QST Article Illustrates Dumbing Down of Ham Radio

[N3FT]

Hi All,

Just wanted to get this off my chest as I was really really irritated by the article in May 2008 QST on p. 71 titled "Selecting Your First HF Transceiver."

The author first states that his own preference would be a solid state/ tube finals hybrd, but other than some discussion of Collins, the rest of the article directs people to buy new equipment. I guess if you have a magazine that gets all of its revenue from ads, you wouldn't want to be pushing used gear.

Its just like how the record companies hated used CD stores.

But the worst part of the article is on the first page where the author implies that today's ham is too stupid to learn how to tune up a tube radio. Furthermore, he states about how "rare" finals tubes are. (For gods sake, back in the 70's when I first got my Novice license I learned how to tune up my DX-100 in no time, and I was only 11 years old.)

Well he must be living in a cave hamshack, as last I knew there were about half a dozen types of 6146B's and 6146W's on the NOS and new market. They made millions of those tubes. Heathkit used them and Kenwood used them, so there are plenty of great old radios for sale for $200 to $300 with easy to find finals tubes. I have two GE 6146's in my closet and I only own an Elecraft K2, haha.

Then there was some discussion of the "dangerous" high voltages involved. I guess that's all part of the "plastic bubble" that we are supposed to be living in now, where the county, state, and Federal Government is supposed to protect us all from ourselves.

Dear QST: "Please don't try to protect me from myself, thank you."

Sincerely, Rob.

[WB2WIK]

I thought it was a lousy article, but for different reasons than you.

Spending several paragraphs discussing close spaced dynamic range, for example, was kind of a wasted discussion. A newbie selecting his first rig and likely to be using a simple antenna wouldn't know the difference between an Orion-II or K3 and a TS-520 when it comes to this parameter.

I also agree the focus should have been more on "used" gear, since more than half of all new hams selecting stuff to put together their first HF station are shopping the used market, and that's where the best deals are.

If the author wished to focus purely on new stuff, the whole comparison to a KWM-2A and its ensuing discussion was wasted -- nobody cares, and you can't buy a new KWM-2A.

WB2WIK/6

[N2RJ]

I also agree that an article for a first rig should concentrate on used gear.

Frankly, new gear is way too expensive for the average new ham to buy, and there is also nothing wrong with older gear.

Pimping new gear also encourages people to whine about the price, which may trickle down to manufacturers who figure that they should cut features and quality to lower the price.

When I got my first driver license, I didn't go out and buy a new ferrari.

When I got my ham license, I didn't go and buy a brand new rig.

I am also puzzled at why ARRL is telling newbies that tube gear is too difficult to tune, when those same newbies will go out and buy a tube amp which basically has a similar tuning procedure.

[G0GQK]

Why would anyone who wants to be a modern, cool, "with it" ham in 2008 want to buy a Collins rig. The constant re-tuning of a valve rig is a pain in the backside when every time you change bands you have to fiddle around tuning. These sort of articles show how out of touch some people are.

G0GQK

[ab9lz]

-- nobody cares, and you can't buy a new KWM-2A.


And as a day to day do it all rig, you probably would even want to use a KWM-2A. Ever done any CW with that POS? By the way, thats not meant to be a flame, I'd love to have one, but would never recommend one to anyone.

And why couldn't they post the schematic to the under $50 rig contest winner? Too complicated for the newbies? Anyway the guy cheated, he used a PIC, most folks aren't setup to teach themselves programming, learn how to burn and debug etc. There is a real hidden cost in there with software development.

73 m/4

[KC6ZLV]

I wouldn't call this "dumbing down." Some people prefer new gear, some prefer older gear. The author probably wrote the article without taking other alternatives into consideration.

Pricing of used gear is kind of a funny thing to figure out as well. Current and recent models are far from being a bargain used. Why buy a used FT-897D for $650 when you can buy a new one for around $700? Some of the late-70's and 80's gear is a good bargain (TS-820, TS-830, etc), but a lot of the gear prior to that goes for "vintage" prices.

With that being said, I've acquired a few rather nice rigs for nothing because someone attempted some modification or other electrical mishap, and the gear no longer works, one of which is a TS-930 with what appears to be a power supply problem. When I get the time I'll see if I can fix this stuff, which will likely cost me either a few $$ in parts, or an entire module/board/whatever is broken at used prices. This kind of thing can be quite a bargain for new hams if they have the technical ability to troubleshoot equipment, and they are willing to wait around until someone is parting out a rig that has the module they need, if that is what it takes for them to complete the repair.


Frankly, new gear is way too expensive for the average new ham to buy, and there is also nothing wrong with older gear.

Pimping new gear also encourages people to whine about the price, which may trickle down to manufacturers who figure that they should cut features and quality to lower the price.

I am also puzzled at why ARRL is telling newbies that tube gear is too difficult to tune, when those same newbies will go out and buy a tube amp which basically has a similar tuning procedure.

Regarding the prices, I disagree. The price of new gear is a bargain after you factor in things like inflation, and quite a few things that were once options are now standard on the new equipment. The ones that whine about the price are also likely to be the same ones that think nothing of spending $300 for the latest cellphone, $250 for an mp3 player, or $400 worth of Monster Cables for their "home entertainment center."

[N2RJ]

Regarding the prices, I disagree. The price of new gear is a bargain after you factor in things like inflation, and quite a few things that were once options are now standard on the new equipment. The ones that whine about the price are also likely to be the same ones that think nothing of spending $300 for the latest cellphone, $250 for an mp3 player, or $400 worth of Monster Cables for their "home entertainment center."

I disagree as well, but I've heard quite a few newbies say that ham gear is too expensive.

Personally I think that modern gear is appropriately priced, but you will always have people who want something for nothing.

[N5FOG]

I would disagree with a new ham buying used gear for 2 reasons. First a new Icom 718 is only $500 and with a new rig they know what they are getting and have a warranty in case something goes wrong.

Second reason is hams today are not like they used to be, just look at Ebay. There are plenty of hams that will sell someone a radio they know has problems or is outright dead but say something like "worked fine the last time I used it" ETC.

So unless a buyer can get a used rig for 250-300 bucks from someone they REALLY know and trust its just not worth it for a first rig.

You don't want a excited new ham who just spend the money he had been saving up for his first radio to have to deal with broken radio. I don't know about you guys but that could sour a new ham to the hobby pretty quickly



FOG

[wc5cw]

N3FT, et al...

Re: May QST Article Illustrates Dumbing Down of Ham Radio

While, as others have mentioned, I'd take exception to inclusion some of the statements describing technical features of RX/TX gear, in this particular article aimed at newbies, I wouldn't be too critical of the editorial aspects of such articles...Such opinions as expressed in these kinds of articles are historically pretty inane, IMHO.

There has always been personal motivation or a generalized community "push" to obtain the most modern gear available...That's a reason why much of the used gear available gets to the marketplace, irrespective of its circuitry devices...Having said that, the choice of new HF TX/RX gear vs. used HF TX/RX gear in economic terms is today as it has always been: Those that are financially able to afford new gear will most often purchase the same...Others, less affluent, will be attracted to used gear.

The market for older tube-type and hybrid type gear is alive and well...And it is frequented by a sizable minority of licensed ops who have, in years past, operated this gear and now with a decade or more of operating solid-state "appliances" are returning to earlier "legacy" gear as a second or third HF station to operate for the fun and the "challenge" that late model solid-state rigs seem to lack in some respects...Rotary knob twisting including tune-up of tube finals and drivers may be included in that fun and "challenge".

My most modern fixed station HF rig is a hybrid; namely a TS-830S...Fitted with two 500Hz CW filters it provides me with all the bells-and-whistles I need to enjoy the HF experience...Would I recommend it to a newbie?...For one who has an interest in the legacy modes of CW and SSB, absolutely!...But for one who wants to operate with more mode choices, then a later model solid-state rig--new or used--would be the wiser choice.

Dollar for dollar and feature for feature, today's prices among the "Big 3" for an entry-level all-band HF TX/RX represent a great value when compared to the rigs available 40 or 50 years ago...I think this is generally recognized and that's why the author makes the suggestion to buy new gear.

FWIW

Bruce
WC5CW

Marking 50 years (1958-2008) of radiotelegraphy enjoyment

[ve4mm]

When I was first licensed in 1983, the newer rigs were the Kenwood TS530S, TS830S etc.

Thoses were well over $1000 new in Canada.

I was only 20 years old and lucked out by finding a used Yaesu FT101E for $500.

If I was first licensed today, I could and would buy a new ICOM IC718 for just over $500.

Now I have an IC7800 and a pile more. I have a bit more money, 25 years later.

And the winner of the homebrew in QST did a great job!

73

Michael Mark, BSc EE, P.Eng.

[WA9SVD]

I have a slightly different view.

I saee a BIG (potential) problem with true ?newbies" using older, "tube based" equipment. Along with the reduction of technical knowledge (in general) required to obtain a license, there is less and less information or stress on the absoulte importance of safety practices in the presence of even modreate voltages, above that used in modern equipment. ((Typically a maximum of 12 or 13.8 Volts.) Are there ANY questions concerning HV safety practices in the written exams anymore?
While this is one place where an Elmer is indespensible, the hazards (and safety procedure) associated with vacuum tube, and high voltage technology were "drummed into our heads," long before we received our first license. (And some of us even had to prove the validity of those precautions and procedures either through first [burned] hand experience, or witnessing one of our hapless cohorts demonstrating the need for such precautions.)

[wa9cwx]

I did look at, but didn't bother to read the article under discussion.

HOWEVER...It doesn't take a genius to see the PHENOMENAL amount of not 'DUMBING' down but literally 'STUPIDING down' ( if that'a a word :D )
.....
Just compare a QST from the last five or even ten years, to those from the 60's or 50's or 40's.

It was assumed (!) you knew the 'basics', and if you DIDN'T, it was assumed it was no ones fault but your own.

You were supposed to KNOW that 500 VDC could knock you on your butt, it would have been considered an embarrassment to have to be TOLD that.....DUH :confused:

[ad5mb]

Should I hold my breath waiting for N3FTs scintillating article on this fascinating topic?

I agree with what you say, N3FT. If I wrote an article like this there would be a zillion links to fine old dinosaurs at HTTP://WWW.RIGPIX.COM

I know what a collossal PITA writing is; I'm writing an SOP at work. The entire thesaurus entry for BORING rolls through your head. Tedious, dismal, dreary, mind numbing, stultifying,...

Where my father worked, there was a rule: Anybody who complained about the coffee made the next pot. You did it yourself or lived with what you got.

I like that rule. It's a good rule.

[WW3QB]

Buying a used rig is a great idea, but is risky without the help of an old Elmer. 6146's were mentioned. They are great tubes. But will a Yaesu with 6JS6C finals or a Drake with 6JB6 finals work as well? These tubes were not as sturdy and are more expensive to find these days. So which is better for a noob, Heathkit, Kenwood, Yeasu, or Drake? If a Heathkit, was it built well? Or are there globs of solder all over the place? I grew up on a DX-100B. Tuning it up is not hard at all and it tolerated some accidents. My Drake is not as tolerant. Price NOS 6JS6C's for an old Yeasu. Not cheap at all. A noob will not know any of this, and may not even know that a DX-100 does not do SSB (do not even try to recommend the SB-10. I have that too).

So a ham with $250 has some choices in the used market. A ham with $500 has better choices, and can even go with a new IC-718 (and a car battery with charger). Without an Elmer, the IC-718 is a safe bet. It's new (or only slightly used), and supported.

I have not seen the QST article yet. An old Collins rig would be an expensive first boat anchor. An HW-101 would be a better mention.

[w5dwh]

Most of the new hams have little or no electronics experience. Kids don't do electronics as a hobby like some of us did.
They don't want or need the frustration of trying to learn a new hobby with old, broken down junk.

I am a new ham with nearly 30 years electronics experience. My first rig, bought last month was the 746PRO. I can probably repair any rig out there but that doesn't mean that I want too! I want to talk on the radio not fix it.

Why would I want to buy a used rig off of Ebay? There is no warranty. If I was buying used I would have bought from a dealer.

I

[WA8FOZ]

Most of the new hams have little or no electronics experience. Kids don't do electronics as a hobby like some of us did.
They don't want or need the frustration of trying to learn a new hobby with old, broken down junk.

I agree with you, TWO, albeit reluctantly. If the newbie has an elmer, a used rig can be fine. A tube rig could be a lot of fun. BUT, it seems like a lot of the new folks are on their own. I remember when I was a Novice in a rural area, 45 years ago. I started out with some junk gear, had little to no local help, and was very discouraged. Eventually an Elmer turned up, I replaced the junk with selected used gear, and things began to roll.

For someone in a similar situation today, an IC-718 makes a lot of sense. And one can order a tested used one from one of the bigger dealers and return it if there is a problem. Much better than eBay!

[w3dub]

I think the whole argument vis a vis new hams buying new gear vis a vis used gear is pretty valid. There is a lot more "on the job training" happening with hams these days than before. That warranty could be considered a safety net of sorts for these folks.

Read through this article, was kinda eh about it, but I think it was fairly decent overall. Then again, these people aren't professional writers.. so lets cut them a break..

[N2RJ]

Then again, these people aren't professional writers.. so lets cut them a break..

pot, kettle, black...

[K0RGR]

There are definitely some decent old radios out there. I'm partial to the old TS-120 series, myself. They were very simple to operate and worked fairly well.

I, too, would avoid tube rigs unless you know something about them. I burned up too many 6JB6's back when they were merely outrageously expensive as matched pairs. A newbie does not need to be fussing with the finicky bias voltage adjustments on the Drakes or the neturalization on the Yaesu's and even Collins rigs. Oh, they might learn something, but I think they would mostly learn how to spend money and get frustrated. As I vaguely recall, learning not to use a metal screwdriver to adjust the neutralization on the Yaesu was a real common lesson. Being able to tune a tube rig doesn't mean you're smarter, just older.

I skimmed the article in question, and I probably wouldn't have written it that way, either, but I don't consider it proof of 'dumbing down'. Go read similar articles written for newbies in the last 40 years, and I don't think you'll find a lot of difference in the content.

[w3dub]

pot, kettle, black...

Uhh.. huh?

[AF9J]

Ummm, I have a case of the yes and nos with regards to some of the thoughts on tube rigs. Most of them are based upon the simple premise of RTM (read the manual).

1. A newb could get seriously injured or killed by high voltages - yes that's true. There have also been a few OTs that have been bitten by high voltage. I'm also a guitarist (I played lead guitar semi-pro in rock bands for a number of years). Guess what, many of not most guitarists prefer tubes for electric guitar. How come most of guitarists have no problems with shock from tube amps? They know to be careful around tubes. Thought number 2 in this regards - many newbs are going out and buying linear amps. What are most linear amps? Well tube based. The plate voltages on the finals for some of these amps, are well over 2000 volts. If the newb has a half a brain, he or she reads the manual, and follows the safety procedures.

2. A newb could trash expensive tubes fumbling around with tuning up a tube rig - yeah that's true, especially if it uses sweep tubes, which are less forgiving of being mistuned, than RF tubes like 6146s. Once again, RTM comes into play. Back in the 80s, when I was a Novice & General, most newbs who had no money (moi for instance) bought tube rigs. I had no Elmer to show me what to do. What did I do, I read the tune-up procedure in the manual, followed it, and my tubes survived. Once you have the precedure down, doing it from memory, you can have a rig tuned up in less than a minute.

You can say that many older radios are sold without the manual. That is very true. Then unless you know what you are doing, can't find a manual, or don't want to get a manual, you shouldn't buy the radio. There are sources online for obtaining manuals. For older Yaesus, the Fox Tango group has many manuals avialable for free online. BAMA also has many manuals for free, as does Kenwood, and mods.dk. There are sources for manuals.

Tube radios are OK. They are actually pretty cool. They are not a be-all end-all for Amateur Radio (I myself as a contester, prefer to use my broadband, no-tune solid state ICOM IC-740 for contesting, so I can jump from band to band without having to retune finals), but they aren't rocket science to use.

I guess what I find disappointing, is so many hams are getting drilled with a "plug and play." mentality. You want a newb to have success. Yes you have to use a little more forthought when using many older rigs. But, to say that new is the only way for a newbie to go in a QST article (and not even considered a used rig that is known to be in good operating condition) is a mistaken view. I know some hams, who can't even afford $500 for a new IC-718.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

[N2RJ]

Ellen -

Why are we so concerned about newbies hurting themselves with tube gear or trashing expensive tubes when those same newbies have no problems going out and buying a tube amp, which often has higher voltages present and more expensive tubes?

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't buy the whole "newbies will injure themselves with tube sets" nonsense.

[ab9lz]

I'm also a guitarist (I played lead guitar semi-pro in rock bands for a number of years).


What was the name of the band? I've been to Wolskis a few times...

73 m/4

[n8yx]

I would disagree with a new ham buying used gear for 2 reasons. First a new Icom 718 is only $500 and with a new rig they know what they are getting and have a warranty in case something goes wrong.

You don't want a excited new ham who just spend the money he had been saving up for his first radio to have to deal with broken radio. I don't know about you guys but that could sour a new ham to the hobby pretty quickly



You're also depriving them of the ability to learn if they never get to fix that "broken" first rig. Or is it that ham radio is slowly morphing into a refuge for the socially and technically maladept, with less and less emphasis towards encouraging people to develop such skills?

[AF9J]

Ellen -

Why are we so concerned about newbies hurting themselves with tube gear or trashing expensive tubes when those same newbies have no problems going out and buying a tube amp, which often has higher voltages present and more expensive tubes?

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't buy the whole "newbies will injure themselves with tube sets" nonsense.

Oh I agree with you completely Ryan. I guess I didn't state it clearly enough. I guess I was trying to say that if newbs can handle tube linears, they can certainly deal with older tube based radio gear. The whole QST article seems lame IMO.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

[AF9J]

What was the name of the band? I've been to Wolskis a few times...

73 m/4

Nah, I never played in the Milwaukee area. I'm originally from out of town. :)

73,
Ellen - AF9J

[WW3QB]

Oh I agree with you completely Ryan. I guess I didn't state it clearly enough. I guess I was trying to say that if newbs can handle tube linears, they can certainly deal with older tube based radio gear. The whole QST article seems lame IMO.

I think here we are talking about the cash poor noob. Someone with $500 or less. This is not targeted to the rich noobs, who can (and probably will) buy an amp and a Pro III the first day.

If you are 13 and cash poor, what should you do?

[n8yx]

If you are 13 and cash poor, what should you do?

Do what I and a number of other hams have done over the years: Scrounge and scavenge parts then build your own gear.

What's that? Your 'new' homebrew DC receiver lacks a spectral display? But it'll still enable you to make contacts...right?

[KA4DPO]

I'm sort of ambivalent on the subject. On the one hand a modern (brand new) starter rig is not very expensive these days and offers plenty of performance out of the box. On the other hand, an older used radio (tube finals) requires more thought in order to use it effectively.

I don't buy the big bad voltage issue simply because you know it's there and it's dangerous. We all worked on tube rigs because it was all we had and you learned very quickly to keep your hands out of the business end of a power supply or transmitter whenever power was applied. As for close in dynamic range. I'm not convinced that the DR and Intercept for a modern starter rig is vastly better (and in some cases worse) than many used rigs on the market including one or two tube rigs.

The real issue for a newbie is selectivity and sensitivity since most noobs don't start out with a beam. A new ham can buy a used all solid state rig for under $500.00 that will do anything you want.

Lets face it, QST has been so watered down the last ten years that it's just not worth reading anymore. The league caters to appliance operators to sell memberships. It's all about dollars and the amateur is no longer part of the equation.

[AF9J]

Originally posted by WW3QB: I think here we are talking about the cash poor noob. Someone with $500 or less. This is not targeted to the rich noobs, who can (and probably will) buy an amp and a Pro III the first day.

If you are 13 and cash poor, what should you do?


Maybe, but I'm not so sure the article is. Because, it says that unless all else fails, even avoid older solid state rigs too. I guess I wasn't clear enough on what I meant. Sorry. I mentioned amps, to illustrate a point (irregardless of funds availability), that safetywise, if a newbie can handle an amp with all of its high voltages, he or she, can certainly handle an older tube based rig. I myself, do not own an amp, and haven't used one since I was in college (at the club station). As for the concept of the 13 year old with no cash - been there and done that. I got my license when I was 14, and didn't get on the air until I was 18. One of the chief reasons why - in spite of having some money from part time jobs, etc., my parents forbid me to spend more than the cost of an average CB radio. I almost quit ham radio, because of this. My first radio (bought in 1982, right after I graduated High School) - a Heathkit HW-16 with HG-10B VFO, bought for the extravagant price of $145. I went behind my parents' back to buy it, and received an earful from them, because I was "wasting money I needed for college."

73,
Ellen - AF9J

[WW3QB]

Do what I and a number of other hams have done over the years: Scrounge and scavenge parts then build your own gear.

What's that? Your 'new' homebrew DC receiver lacks a spectral display? But it'll still enable you to make contacts...right?

Scrounge from where? Surplus radio parts are not in the local electronics store or TV fix-it shops, Oh wait, there are very few local electronics stores and no TV fix-it shops anymore. The local "military surplus" has nothing. Need a tube, crystal, or IF transformer? Go to Circuit City or Radio Shack? I think not. Except for maybe e-Bay, there are no sources for old parts. I don't think we want to recommend that to noobs. Those days are long gone.

Also, in the old days, everybody had tube gear to play the dip and peak game. Now few younger than 30 have ever seen that game played. Most OF's remember, but do not have that gear anymore. So as a Novice in 1974, everybody knew what I was talking about. Now, only a few OF's on QRZ (like myself) know.

[WA6MHZ]

Ham Radio just isn't the same as it was back in the 50s and 60s. Hams back then were interested in persuing an Electronics career, and most did. They are the engineers and technicians of today. But the QST article on the Homebrew SSB rig illustrates WHY Hams of today are so different. It is almost all microprocessor and computer, and very little RF circuitry. Back then, Hams expected to work on the radios, but today few will crack open the radio case. I do, because I am an accomplished RF technician and know what I am doing around SMT parts and multilayer PCBs. About the only replaceable part in todays radios is the FUSE, for new hams. Consequently, when local hams rigs break, they bring them to me and I fix it for them. Todays hams are appliance operators, not RF Technicians and Engineers. OH, there are a few, but the vast majority have no idea what happens between the mike and the antenna jack. So the article was right on target on that aspect. Though I thought it was quite silly to show a Collins KWM-2A as a prospect. Those are snatched up by the ultra-rich collectors. Those and Drakes. If a newcomer wants an older rig, the best he is going to find is a Yaesu FT-101, Kenwood TS-520 or Heathkit HW/SB-101. The Heathkits are prone to breaking, so that is definitely not a good choice unless he has a good Elmer like myself in the neighborhood to fix it for him. The best choice for a newcomer is a 80s or 90s Icom or Kenwood. I would recommend a Kenwood TS-430s, TS-440s, or Icom IC-720,730,735,740,745 or 751. Those would be the most reliable and the best Appliance radio they need. And if it breaks, bring it to me, I will see if I can get it going again for you.

[ab0wr]

Scrounge from where? Surplus radio parts are not in the local electronics store or TV fix-it shops, Oh wait, there are very few local electronics stores and no TV fix-it shops anymore. The local "military surplus" has nothing. Need a tube, crystal, or IF transformer? Go to Circuit City or Radio Shack? I think not. Except for maybe e-Bay, there are no sources for old parts. I don't think we want to recommend that to noobs. Those days are long gone.

Also, in the old days, everybody had tube gear to play the dip and peak game. Now few younger than 30 have ever seen that game played. Most OF's remember, but do not have that gear anymore. So as a Novice in 1974, everybody knew what I was talking about. Now, only a few OF's on QRZ (like myself) know.

You don't *need* to scrounge parts nowadays. You can build a very good single conversion receiver for way less than $50 using parts ordered from the supply houses, purchased off of ebay (variable caps, crystals, circuit boards, cabinets, etc.), and ordered from Dan's Small Parts and Kits.

Heck no it won't be a 746Pro but neither was the first receiver I used in 1964.

If you are willing to start out on CW, a good 10watt CW transmitter won't be much more expensive and will work fine. You may still have to use a manual xmit/rcv switch but so what?

You will learn *so much more* in doing this than in buying a store bought rig. To those who are interested in the self-training and technical investigation part of ham radio I just don't see any other way to go.

tim ab0wr

[kr9d]

There is a big space between tube hybrid rigs and modern processor-controlled rigs. And the radios in that gap are cheap, too.

But it seems to me new hams don't come with the automatic sense of wonder I detect in the OT's who got their licenses at teenagers back in the 50's and 60's. Now, it's mostly guys who are already adults, pursuing a hobby that for whatever reason passed them by in their younger days. That describes every one of the new operators who actually show up to our local club meetings.

These folks will eventually pick up the soldering iron. But it seems to me the more important priority is to instill an enjoyment of listening to and understanding HF communications. Thus, I think an early solid-state transceiver with a general coverage receiver is a good place to start.

I started with a Kenwood TS-430S. There are many examples of radios of that general age, performance, and price. They are old enough so that they aren't filled with surface-mount components, multi-layer boards, and processor controllers, but new enough so that they have general coverage, a digital display, relatively stable frequency reference, and, most important of all, knobs. Turning those knobs is what teaches the principles. I learn more about the passband fiddling around with passband tuning and filters than any amount of studying shape factors.

I outgrew the Kenwood soon as my own goals in AR started to emerge. And even though I am not an accomplished technician, I have still spent plenty of time in my rigs with the soldering iron. If you spend relatively little on an older unit, and if it has discrete components, it's not quite so scary.

I agree with all the comments about the article. Were it my task to write it, I would have started with requirements--what a new guy might want in a radio. Then, I would survey both new and used choices that might meet those requirements. That empowers newbies to make good choices rather than just do what they are told.

The leadership of elmers and local clubs is critical here. The first sentence of that article should be: "Are you in a local club or seeking the guidance of an experienced ham? No? Do it now, before spending money on anything." There's plenty of bad advice in local clubs, but those who give it are a little more obligated to make their advice work if it proves problematic.

(And if someone comes out of even minimal study for the tests without a respect for the dangers of the voltages used in tube radios, they are not paying attention at all. That subject is well covered.)

Rick "who outgrew such articles while still studying for the tests" Denney

[ky5u]

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Don't be a moron,
Learn Old Rigs too.

[N3FT]

I have a slightly different view.

I saee a BIG (potential) problem with true ?newbies" using older, "tube based" equipment. Along with the reduction of technical knowledge (in general) required to obtain a license, there is less and less information or stress on the absoulte importance of safety practices in the presence of even modreate voltages, above that used in modern equipment. ((Typically a maximum of 12 or 13.8 Volts.) Are there ANY questions concerning HV safety practices in the written exams anymore?
While this is one place where an Elmer is indespensible, the hazards (and safety procedure) associated with vacuum tube, and high voltage technology were "drummed into our heads," long before we received our first license. (And some of us even had to prove the validity of those precautions and procedures either through first [burned] hand experience, or witnessing one of our hapless cohorts demonstrating the need for such precautions.)
That is EXACTLY the "Dumbing Down" that I was talking about. People regularly buy new linears using 3KVDC, and can easily electrocute themselves by fooling with their breaker box, so the whole high voltage thing is a red herring.

Rob N3FT

[ai4ep]

meeebee we uns should restrict the new kids on the block to 100 watt rigs during their first 10 years so they dont electrocute theirselves ...myself included.

or at least not as easily as sticking their tiny little fingers in an amplifier.

Or maybe yet, go ahead and eliminate yourselves from the human race...survival of the fittest / smartest......you go ahead and risk YOUR life with that amplifier, and I will sit waaaaay over here and call 911 if needed.

But I dont do cpr

[kl7aj]

Then there was some discussion of the "dangerous" high voltages involved. I guess that's all part of the "plastic bubble" that we are supposed to be living in now, where the county, state, and Federal Government is supposed to protect us all from ourselves.

Dear QST: "Please don't try to protect me from myself, thank you."

Sincerely, Rob.[/QUOTE]


From the Opus...... :)

"....
Let us now address each of these points in detail. Number one, electrocution, is a good place to start. Amateur Radio is an electrical hobby. Radio amateurs, for the most part (with a few notable exceptions), have bodies which are every bit as subject to the ill effects of electricity as other mortals. Fortunately, the modern ham shack is far safer in this regard than those of yore. Most modern, commercially made radios have nearly inaccessible sources of dangerous electrical currents. With the advent of low-voltage, solid state technology, you almost have to work at getting a lethal jolt.
Contrast this with the typical radio shack of half a century ago, which consisted of a loose collection of extremely high-voltage components lashed together with uninsulated jumper cables, sitting on the edge of a water-soaked desk, all powered by a distribution panel populated entirely with glass “fuses” bypassed with corroded copper pennies, and operated by a pre-teen boy sitting on a steel folding chair donning nothing but damp swimming trunks.
It really is amazing that anyone survived the hobby at all. But here we are.

[AG3Y]

Robert, maybe 10 years without an amplifier is stretching it a bit, but I certainly don't see anything wrong with restricting the access to them for at least a year or so. You must remember that during the height of the "incentive licensing" program, Novices were restricted to 75 watt radios, even though most of them were tube-type designs which could administer a fairly severe shock if handled incorrectly ! I can even remember getting walloped pretty good from a straight key that was using to cathode key a single 6146 final in a small transmitter I first used!

I believe one of the biggest mistakes that anyone can make now days is to get their license, and immediately go out and buy the biggest, "baddest", setup they can afford ( multiple payments, like a car ! ) and then come on here asking all kinds of questions about how to hook it all up, because they don't have the FOGGIEST idea of how to go about it!

Some of the "newbies" have never even heard a signal on the HF bands!

One of the reasons I am so dedicated to QRZ.COM is because I hope that someone will learn enough from this forum so they WON'T stick their fingers into the wrong place and prematurely terminate their life !

73, Jim

[n8yx]

meeebee we uns should restrict the new kids on the block to 100 watt rigs during their first 10 years so they dont electrocute theirselves ...myself included.

Plenty of 100w-class rigs that employ tube PA assemblies out there...and that'll kill you dead if you stick your fingers into the final amplifier compartment when HV is applied...

[N3FT]

Scrounge from where? Surplus radio parts are not in the local electronics store or TV fix-it shops, Oh wait, there are very few local electronics stores and no TV fix-it shops anymore. The local "military surplus" has nothing. Need a tube, crystal, or IF transformer? Go to Circuit City or Radio Shack? I think not. Except for maybe e-Bay, there are no sources for old parts. I don't think we want to recommend that to noobs. Those days are long gone.

Also, in the old days, everybody had tube gear to play the dip and peak game. Now few younger than 30 have ever seen that game played. Most OF's remember, but do not have that gear anymore. So as a Novice in 1974, everybody knew what I was talking about. Now, only a few OF's on QRZ (like myself) know.
No sources for parts? Hamfests have tons of used parts. Plus your friendly nearby ham probably has a junkbox in the basement that you can root through, accumulated over 20 or 30 years. You just need to find a Ham Radio Club, join it, and ask around. Or get on your brand new 2M rig, and start asking. Most hams are glad to get rid of stuff they don't use any more.

As far as new parts, there are plenty of places that sell wire lead NTE comonents. Here in Oregon we have Norvac, Frys, and others. Ocean State Electronics has tons of stuff http://www.oselectronics.com/ Digikey and Mouser still sell non SMT components and IC's. (As far as Ocean State goes, check out pages 80 and 81 in their on-line catalog. Lots of cool stuff.) Moreover Mini-Circuits sells all sorts of modules that can be used by the ham- mixers and such. NOS tubes of every type are available from multiple sources. Just type "vacuum tubes" into Google and you will see.

Then there is Surplus Sales of Nebraska http://www.surplussales.com/ OK, you probably have gotten my point now.

There one more reference to mention, and it used to be in the ARRL Handbook. The older editions used to have a whole page of parts suppliers, but in my 2006 edition, they assume that now that we have the internet, anyone can search for any part they want. But it was a good list and its worth seeking out an older Handbook in order to get it as most of the companies are still around. Here is a good replacement listing:

http://www.ac6v.com/components.htm

Sincerely, Rob N3FT

[ks4du]

Dear QST: "Please don't try to protect me from myself, thank you."

Sincerely, Rob.


Funny you should say that. Did you see the sidebar on page 13 stating that the ARRL is concerned about our health and instructing us to lose a few pounds and stay fit? What's up with that?

[n8yx]

I'll add one thing to the list above: The "Elmer".

Over the years, several of mine turned out to be an unending supply of parts. As I became more and more adept at finding components - parting out used or defunct equipment - and rifling through the various piles of goodies at hamfests and other electronics venues, it was I who often kept them supplied with components needed to keep their gear workable.

I have a few friends @ work who actively look out for things I need...and vice-versa.

Going back through old issues of QST and The Handbook, ones sees literally hundreds if not thousands of construction and modification articles that could be employed to get a newcomer on the air with homebrew gear. Even those parts which have been obsoleted by their manufacturers can be "found" IF one is willing to put a little 'sweat equity' into the process...

[n8yx]

Funny you should say that. Did you see the sidebar on page 13 stating that the ARRL is concerned about our health and instructing us to lose a few pounds and stay fit? What's up with that?

They offer a member life insurance policy as a 'benefit', right? The payouts are probably killing them...

[w3dub]

Funny you should say that. Did you see the sidebar on page 13 stating that the ARRL is concerned about our health and instructing us to lose a few pounds and stay fit? What's up with that?

Did they really say that? haha well, there are a lot of pretty portly hams out there.

As for the life insurance.. a lot of orgs offer that.. I don't think they *pay* for it.. I think ARRL actually gets like a kickback for every member who signs up.

[N2RJ]

Did they really say that? haha well, there are a lot of pretty portly hams out there.

As for the life insurance.. a lot of orgs offer that.. I don't think they *pay* for it.. I think ARRL actually gets like a kickback for every member who signs up.

They gave out a whole bunch of the snoopy toys at Dayton last year.

[N8CPA]

Then there was some discussion of the "dangerous" high voltages involved. I guess that's all part of the "plastic bubble" that we are supposed to be living in now, where the county, state, and Federal Government is supposed to protect us all from ourselves.

Dear QST: "Please don't try to protect me from myself, thank you."

Sincerely, Rob.


...Contrast this with the typical radio shack of half a century ago, which consisted of a loose collection of extremely high-voltage components lashed together with uninsulated jumper cables, sitting on the edge of a water-soaked desk, all powered by a distribution panel populated entirely with glass “fuses” bypassed with corroded copper pennies, and operated by a pre-teen boy sitting on a steel folding chair donning nothing but damp swimming trunks.
It really is amazing that anyone survived the hobby at all. But here we are.[/QUOTE]

A new League promo: Free ARRL bicycle helmet with each CSCE; Or, free Hg resistant gas mask to protect you while changing CFL's.

BTW, I haven't mentioned it for a while. But I am still selling RF offsets. And just as proceeds from carbon offsets go toward reforestation, proceeds from RF offsets benefit my antenna farm. :D

[KD6NIG]

Did they really say that? haha well, there are a lot of pretty portly hams out there.

As for the life insurance.. a lot of orgs offer that.. I don't think they *pay* for it.. I think ARRL actually gets like a kickback for every member who signs up.

The kickback is advertising results by mentioning the ARRL, which ensures them continuing to buy ads in the magazine, probably.

Maybe they get a little money too, but usually mentioning the code just increments a counter somewhere in the advertising department of that company so they can see that the ad dollars they invested are going to good use.

I have a feeling they aren't getting nearly the life memberships and signups like that like they used to. Being a "30 something" ham myself I'm probably part of the target demographic, but alas I quit the ARRL over 2 years ago.

I have a feeling us "appliance operators" and "instant extras" aren't subscribing to the ARRL in the numbers they expected.

And with the economy going the way its going, stuff like the ARRL is going to become as optional as paying $600 for another rig. I'm just happy that at the moment my financial situation allows me to keep the stuff I have and will probably allow me to continue to do so as long as gas doesn't hit $6 a gallon. It does that and I may have to look at selling it to get to work.

I have a feeling some people are tight enough in the wallet right now that they have already cut things like magazine subscriptions. I highly doubt someone in enough trouble that they are forced to sell ham equipment will be keeping ARRL either.

The fact the older hams keep re-upping may be their only saving grace at the moment.....

[WW3QB]

No sources for parts? Hamfests have tons of used parts. Plus your friendly nearby ham probably has a junkbox in the basement that you can root through, accumulated over 20 or 30 years. You just need to find a Ham Radio Club, join it, and ask around. Or get on your brand new 2M rig, and start asking. Most hams are glad to get rid of stuff they don't use any more.

As far as new parts, there are plenty of places that sell wire lead NTE comonents. Here in Oregon we have Norvac, Frys, and others. Ocean State Electronics has tons of stuff http://www.oselectronics.com/ Digikey and Mouser still sell non SMT components and IC's. (As far as Ocean State goes, check out pages 80 and 81 in their on-line catalog. Lots of cool stuff.) Moreover Mini-Circuits sells all sorts of modules that can be used by the ham- mixers and such. NOS tubes of every type are available from multiple sources. Just type "vacuum tubes" into Google and you will see.

Then there is Surplus Sales of Nebraska http://www.surplussales.com/ OK, you probably have gotten my point now.

There one more reference to mention, and it used to be in the ARRL Handbook. The older editions used to have a whole page of parts suppliers, but in my 2006 edition, they assume that now that we have the internet, anyone can search for any part they want. But it was a good list and its worth seeking out an older Handbook in order to get it as most of the companies are still around. Here is a good replacement listing:

http://www.ac6v.com/components.htm

Sincerely, Rob N3FT


The last hamfest I attended last year was very disappointing. Mostly old computer parts. There was someone selling old tubes. Friendly neighborhood hams with junk boxes are dieing off. I needed a 5 pF capacitor. Radio shack had nothing measured in pF. I got onto the local club's 2m net and asked where to get parts. The only responses were reminiscing about shops long gone. This is in the Washington DC area.

And for new parts, I have to go mail order and pay $5.00 shipping & handling for a 50 cent cap. It requires planning in advance and you don't want to miss something. Every time you need a part you lose a week. Ocean State has a "reputation". I've done business with Mouser and Jameco and am happy with them.

Perhaps in your area there is a vibrant parts market and a lot of not-dead-yet hams with lots of junk. You are lucky.

[KC0BUF]

Hambash was a bit of a bust this weekend. Most of the good vendors went elsewhere, and the ones that were there were understocked because they thought that the others would be there... all I wanted was an 8-pin mic plug, and nobody had it.

[w3dub]

I have a feeling us "appliance operators" and "instant extras" aren't subscribing to the ARRL in the numbers they expected.

And with the economy going the way its going, stuff like the ARRL is going to become as optional as paying $600 for another rig. I'm just happy that at the moment my financial situation allows me to keep the stuff I have and will probably allow me to continue to do so as long as gas doesn't hit $6 a gallon. It does that and I may have to look at selling it to get to work.

I have a feeling some people are tight enough in the wallet right now that they have already cut things like magazine subscriptions. I highly doubt someone in enough trouble that they are forced to sell ham equipment will be keeping ARRL either.

The fact the older hams keep re-upping may be their only saving grace at the moment.....

Yes damn us "appliance operators" and "instant extras"! We just ain't real hams. hehe

Anyways, I doubt it has anything to do with problems with membership in the ARRL. Everything i saw indicated theres been a lot of growth as of late. Life memberships really don't make much money in the end. Plus, they'd rather be able to hit people up over and over again..

Those with lifers who just spent $950 for it are going to be much less likely to throw the league an extra few bucks.. those on annuals would probably be more likely to do so. That's how they got me -- saying "another $36, and you're a diamond club member."

I said what the hell, and sent it in..

You are right.. tough times in the economy will call for tough times for those that provide luxury services. Membership organizations and subscriptions can be counted in with that group.

[N4PRT]

I have a slightly different view.

I saee a BIG (potential) problem with true ?newbies" using older, "tube based" equipment. Along with the reduction of technical knowledge (in general) required to obtain a license, there is less and less information or stress on the absoulte importance of safety practices in the presence of even modreate voltages, above that used in modern equipment. ((Typically a maximum of 12 or 13.8 Volts.) Are there ANY questions concerning HV safety practices in the written exams anymore?
While this is one place where an Elmer is indespensible, the hazards (and safety procedure) associated with vacuum tube, and high voltage technology were "drummed into our heads," long before we received our first license. (And some of us even had to prove the validity of those precautions and procedures either through first [burned] hand experience, or witnessing one of our hapless cohorts demonstrating the need for such precautions.)

I almost wholeheartedly agree:eek:

There are several varieties of new ham entering the hobby these days. I hold no prejudice or animosity against any sort except the clueless whacker who intends on saving the world with his HT...:p

40 years ago, the concept of a rockbound and glowing rig was the starting point for many. The technology was supported--by Elmers, suppliers, and copious literature. Them days is gone...

This is not to say that hybrid or tube rigs are to be eschewed--but rather embraced by those who have and are willing to dedicate time and learning to the facets of older electronic technology. To encourage a new ham that just memorized the pool to run out and get the most fabulous of yesterdays tube technology is just plain wrong.

The love and understanding of electronics is a gradual process--if one does not have the supportive interest, they should buy an appliance. I for one will not judge them for that. Sucky butt articles such as this one do little to actually promote anything. And putting such a thing in QST is rather a case of preaching to the choir. The only dumb thing was thinking that this article might be informative...:eek:

[KB1KIX]

Hm.... so this thread has turned into a newbie bashing thread.... I'm surprised...... :rolleyes:

There are a lot of newbies that have a desire to learn. I have a student in my last class that wants to learn CW and work QRP after my demonstrating one of my small rigs to him.

In fact, my keys have only been connected to my QRP rigs - I've never operated CW on my 706 or my 570.

Though..... when I get that Viking II on the air...........

Jonathan

[W1GUH]

About the comments about the frustrations of old, broken down equipment. I had PLENTY of frustrations with my novice rig, getting it "just right" or, in my early general days getting the VFO on the right band, let alone the right frequency. Then, on phone, making a crappy modulator actually work good. Oh yes, I had plenty of frustration making some of that stuff work. I would have given my left...um....eye tooth for a radio that I could run with the cabinet on for more than a day! ;)

And the cost of radios. I've been thinking about this since the comments about that guy in Pennsylvania with the antenna farm to die for. He's exceptional, of course, with that kind of real estate, etc., except for maybe land isn't all that pricey there. Whatever. But when you compare the price of a top-end IYeaWood or KenYeaCom to the price of even a modest new car, it's a very small fraction. And if you compare the cost of a classic car hobby with the cost of radios, radio comes out as an almost dirt-cheap hobby. Heck, even a good bike'll cost you many times what a brandy-new radio will cost you.

And the danger? I suppose that 600v is rightly considered dangerous, but I've been bitten by that a few times. Not something to do often, but it'll teach you to be careful. Mind you, I'm not talking about the lethal voltages in tube amps...that stuff's instant death. (Switch to Safety!) Or, even in my latter day boat anchor fun, discovering that the tuning slugs in a TR-4 have low voltage B+ on them. Ouch! And ouch again when I didn't realize what happened the first time. :D

[kj3n]

Or is it that ham radio is slowly morphing into a refuge for the socially and technically maladept....

Ham radio has always been a refuge of the socially maladapted. If you don't think so, I suggest you take a good look around at any hamfest, local ham radio store, or Dayton. :eek:

[kj3n]

We all worked on tube rigs because it was all we had and you learned very quickly to keep your hands out of the business end of a power supply or transmitter whenever power was applied.

And if you didn't, ...... "Natural Selection" took care of it. ;) :D

[n8yx]

Or is it that ham radio is slowly morphing into a refuge for the socially and technically maladept... Ham radio has always been a refuge of the socially maladapted. If you don't think so, I suggest you take a good look around at any hamfest, local ham radio store, or Dayton. :eek:

Funny you should mention this...

'DSG and myself went to two events yesterday: A gun show and a hamfest.

At one event, we noticed a sea of fairly upscale cars - Mercedes, BMWs, Lexii...even a Carerra 4 - in the parking lot. The attendees were mannerly, as were the vendors. "Pardon me", "Miss, would you like help with those things?" and similar sentiments were often voiced. People were well-dressed, shaved, shined and neither of us saw anyone wearing camo clothing. The requisite law-enforcement official was present.

At the other event, we noticed a sea of older vehicles...lots of pickups, 4x4s and the like. Many of the participants were 'fragrant' (to put it mildly), and quite a few looked as if they hadn't shaved in several weeks. Wild mountain men and frontier types, these. Camo was definitely the 'in' thing for a few of them; last year's Trebark pattern looking a little dated and somewhat worse for wear. Manners? I've seen rocks with better manners...buyers and sellers alike. Of course, the requisite law-enforcement official was present.

Now take a guess as to which event was which. In case you're wondering, it was my XYL who "...pointed out the obvious...".

[KC0BUF]

Did you by any chance attend the Hambash in KC?

[K0RGR]

All newbies should start off going through the School of Hard Knocks. Therefore, we should break all of the used gear before we sell it, right?

There's no question that you can build decent, usable radios. It's even possible to build a real high performance radio. And, thank God, a few people do. I hope someday, I'll have the time and space to do so again.

Ham radio has changed because life has changed. I've built many pieces of gear, but I haven't built an HF transceiver since I was in college, other than the HW-series QRP rigs. I can't take over the kitchen table for a month to work on it. My workbenches are occupied by many other things. I can easily understand why fewer people are doing big projects anymore.

[kj3n]

'DSG and myself went to two events yesterday: A gun show and a hamfest.

At one event, we noticed a sea of fairly upscale cars - Mercedes, BMWs, Lexii...even a Carerra 4 - in the parking lot. The attendees were mannerly, as were the vendors. "Pardon me", "Miss, would you like help with those things?" and similar sentiments were often voiced. People were well-dressed, shaved, shined and neither of us saw anyone wearing camo clothing. The requisite law-enforcement official was present.

At the other event, we noticed a sea of older vehicles...lots of pickups, 4x4s and the like. Many of the participants were 'fragrant' (to put it mildly), and quite a few looked as if they hadn't shaved in several weeks. Wild mountain men and frontier types, these. Camo was definitely the 'in' thing for a few of them; last year's Trebark pattern looking a little dated and somewhat worse for wear. Manners? I've seen rocks with better manners...buyers and sellers alike. Of course, the requisite law-enforcement official was present.

Now take a guess as to which event was which. In case you're wondering, it was my XYL who "...pointed out the obvious...".

This smells like a setup, but I'd say the first event described was the gun show.

[wa9cwx]

Sounds like a family reunion for some folks.......

Biggest issue at hamfests that I see, is the lack of younger people, and the weight of the older ones.

It HAS turned into a fat old man hobby, at least as far as HAMFESTS are concerned.....

Frank

[K3UD]

Sometimes I wonder how those of us who came into ham radio in the 50s and 60s actually survived. Many of us had rather poor gear and we either learned how to use it or learn how to fix it when it broke. Yes, we were playing around equipment where the voltages in either the transmitter and receiver could be lethal. I remember being tossed across the floor of a basement when I inadvertently tangled with the plate supply of a TX-62.

I also found out the the voltage in a Heath Twoer could also give you a wallop. Over the years I had the pleasure of trouble shooting A B&W 5100B, a National NC-303, A Johnson Ranger, Hammarlund 170 and a DX-100. Any of them could have sent me to the promised land or maybe purgatory for being stupid around high voltage.

There were things that we all had to learn.

I finally got around to reading May's QST and took a look at the article being talked about here. Yes, there are good bargains to be had in both solid state radios and the hybrid radios. It does not take a lot of time to load and dip the plate. If you see it done once or twice you will quickly learn how to do it as it will become second nature. The Kenwood TS-520 through the TS-830 are remarkable radios and are already classics. They are plentiful and tubes are readily available for them.

Other radios like the Swan series use expensive TV sweep tubes that can be destroyed in a very short time if you make a mistake when tuning for resonance. However, once you learn how to handle it, you will probably get a good life out of the tubes.

As far as costs are concerned, Ham radio has become a bargain. When I stated I had a Heath DX-40 transmitter and a Hallicrafters SX-110 receiver along with a Heath Twoer and a EF Johnson 6n2 VHF converter.
The total cost of this was about $290 in 1964 dollars. Everything was used gear with the exception of the SX-110. My father bought the SX-110 that was new old stock from Sears and I think he paid $130 on markdown as the radio had gone out of production in 1962.

What would $290 in 1964 money buy today? Well, you would have $2,090 to play with. An Icom 718 is $550 or about 26% of the $2,090.
Other than the receiver, I saved up the money from a paper route, and mowing lawns. If my father never purchased the receiver for me I probably would have had the money I needed in 6 to 8 weeks. Thins about what $2,090 would buy in today's ham radio market. A bargain indeed.

73
George
K3UD

[WF7A]

Although I haven't read the article I can understand why the author would want to steer newbies to solid-state rigs instead of tube ones: we live in an age of instant gratification. People don't want to "futz" with anything, let alone fixing a broken rig or having to re-tune a tube-final rig all the time. Simply, a solid-state rig offers minimum fuss from the transceiver end of things.

Of course, the real frustration is when a newbie sets up an antenna for the first time. Sad to say, many of them think that they have to cut an antenna element down to micron tolerances in order for an aerial to work. That, and unless you have a huge antenna that can cause local geomagnetic disturbances it won't be an effective radiator and/or receiver. So, if they don't start pulling in distant stations all the time their disappointment level goes vertical and soon after, they sell their gear.

Let the chiding begin, but I'm a huge fan of Kurt Sterba's Aerials books/series. If you walk away with only one thing from reading any of his works it's this: work with what you have, don't worry about having perfectly-tuned antennas, and have fun.

[KD6NIG]

Course, I just read another article in my local paper about how 25% of the seniors about to graduate cannot pass the "exit exam" required to graduate.

Perhaps having younger people poke around in old tube rigs is not such a good idea.

Course, they can do the same in a solid state radio, but, we can hope they will just plug and play......and not open up. At least till they figure out they can get onto CB that way too, but maybe if they paid for the radio, they will pay for the mod too.

Or at least when they fry it the voltages won't be as lethal :)

[N8GAV]

I have seen a lot of Newbies get a older rig and and have no clue how to tune it,then want to trade it off for a solid state rig. The newest rig I have is a FT101ZD I use it on PSK, CW, Phone,whatever.6146's will be around for sometime to come and it is not hard to "Dip the Plate.

[WW3QB]

I just read the article, and beside being too long for the material it covers, it asks and answers two questions:

1. New or used? It suggests that the IC-718 and FT-450 rigs are so cheap that buying used is risky considering the savings.

2. If used, how old? It also suggests that one does not have to go ancient when getting a used rig. Solid state rigs have been available for many years (I count 30 with the introduction of the TR-7). Does one really need to consider an even older tube rig?

We could debate the charm of tube rigs, but a noob is not interested in ancient charm. He want to get on the air.

What the article should have also mentioned is the other article on page 33, the homebrew 40m SSB CW transceiver. The two authors probably had no idea about the other's article, but they compliment each other nicely.

[k4kyv]

Did you see the sidebar on page 13 stating that the ARRL is concerned about our health and instructing us to lose a few pounds and stay fit? What's up with that?

I think he pretty much explained it when he wrote that he attended a few recent hamfests (see below).


Biggest issue at hamfests that I see, is the lack of younger people, and the weight of the older ones.

It HAS turned into a fat old man hobby, at least as far as HAMFESTS are concerned.....

[W1GUH]

Tuning a pi-net in a hollow state final is hard? Get outta here! It's a lot easier than tuning an antenna so your solid state final won't fold back.

Oh, yea, there's auto-tuners to take care of that. Sorry.

[KI4NGN]

Did anyone happen to notice the table that showed the price of the KWM-2 in 1962 and 2008 dollars?

1962 - $1150
2008 - $8038

This demonstrates that top of the line (for the time) new gear has always been very expensive.

This puts rigs like the IC7700 & IC7800 into perspective.

It also demonstrates that today's $800 (new price) rigs would have cost about $100 in 1962.

Now compare the rig you got for $100 in 1962 with what you can get today for the same inflation adjusted dollars.

Compare that KWM-2 with the IC7700 (roughly the same ballpark when prices are adjusted).

Ham radio may not be cheap, but it has sure gotten a lot less expensive considering what you get for those hard earned dollars!

Mike

[k5syn]

And as a day to day do it all rig, you probably would even want to use a KWM-2A. Ever done any CW with that POS? By the way, thats not meant to be a flame, I'd love to have one, but would never recommend one to anyone.

And why couldn't they post the schematic to the under $50 rig contest winner? Too complicated for the newbies? Anyway the guy cheated, he used a PIC, most folks aren't setup to teach themselves programming, learn how to burn and debug etc. There is a real hidden cost in there with software development.

73 m/4

They did post the schematic, parts list and other stuff on the website:

http://www.arrl.org/files/qst-binaries/QS0508Veatch.zip

And as stated in the article he's offered to program the chip for anyone who does not have a PC. :)

[KB9BVN]

I think here we are talking about the cash poor noob. Someone with $500 or less. This is not targeted to the rich noobs, who can (and probably will) buy an amp and a Pro III the first day.

If you are 13 and cash poor, what should you do?

Build your own rig. Learn CW.

For $100 or less, you can build a SWL 40, and a small antenna tuner, and homebrew a dipole. Mount the rig in a old coffee can and start having fun. This issue of QST has a awesome homebrew CW/SSB transceiver on the cover that can be built for $50.

[WA6MHZ]

One reason the new rigs are so cheap is that they have very little Human intervention required. Back in the days of Swan and Hallicrafters, there were assemblers who sat there and spent several weeks wiring one of those up. Even though they only got a couple dollars an hour, it was still very time and labor intensive. Today's radio, such as the Icom 718, is mostly done on a surface mount PCB built in a few MINUTES by robotics. I used to work at a contract manufacturer who had one of these machines, called a PICK AND PLACE.
First the bare PCB would have solder paste screened on it. Then it went into the Pick and Place where all the components were precisionly placed on the solder pasted PCB. Next it traveled into a Reflow oven where the solder paste melts and solders the parts to the PCB. Finally it goes through a giant dishwasher where the flux is washed off and the board is dried. There are even robotic QC systems to examine the board for solder or component errors. In an operation that takes only a few minutes, the Icom 718 board is ready to mount in the case (oh there are a few wires to solder, but most are plug in). So a radio is built in a very short order, not weeks like in the 50s. Because of such low labor costs and high speed, they are able to sell the radio so cheap. Same thing with DVDs. It is hard to imagine buying a DVD player with all the whistles and bells for $25 but it can be done! Just a few years ago, it would have cost over $1000!
Electronics is the ONLY industry where prices of the items drop. Everything else in life seems to go up. Food, Cars, Houses, Gas. Everything but Electronics. Thats why Cellphones are disposable now. Consequently, because they are so cheap, it doens't make sense to fix them. They break, they are thrown away and a new one bought. I have a whole closet full of broke VCRs. Can't even GIVE them away! And now dumps charge you to throw things away. The best way to get rid of things these days is to WRAP it up in a box, unlabeled, and leave it somewhere. SOMEONE will steal it. Problem solved!

[KB9BVN]

Scrounge from where? Surplus radio parts are not in the local electronics store or TV fix-it shops, Oh wait, there are very few local electronics stores and no TV fix-it shops anymore. The local "military surplus" has nothing. Need a tube, crystal, or IF transformer? Go to Circuit City or Radio Shack? I think not. Except for maybe e-Bay, there are no sources for old parts. I don't think we want to recommend that to noobs. Those days are long gone.

Also, in the old days, everybody had tube gear to play the dip and peak game. Now few younger than 30 have ever seen that game played. Most OF's remember, but do not have that gear anymore. So as a Novice in 1974, everybody knew what I was talking about. Now, only a few OF's on QRZ (like myself) know.

Scrounge parts on the internet. There are dozens of parts places online, big ones, and small ones. Take a drive through any neighborhood on trash day and snag the VCR's and other possibles that might be laying on the street. E-Bay is the LAST place I look for parts when I am building QRP rigs.

Dan's Small Parts
W8DIZ's www.kitsandparts.com
www.hamradparts.com

Just to name a few.

[KB9BVN]

Ham Radio just isn't the same as it was back in the 50s and 60s.

You're talking 50 years ago. I would hope things have advanced significantly in this time frame.

We now have gilbert cell mixers in IC forms, SDR, surface mount, a huge variety of switching transistors, RF power transistors, much better parts supplies....I like it here in the present just fine.

[KB9BVN]

They offer a member life insurance policy as a 'benefit', right? The payouts are probably killing them...

They do? I've been a league member for 20 years and I don't recall them ever trying to sell me life insurance, they have tried selling me insurance on my gear though...which I declined.

[N2RJ]

They do? I've been a league member for 20 years and I don't recall them ever trying to sell me life insurance, they have tried selling me insurance on my gear though...which I declined.

They have a partnership with metlife now.

[KB9BVN]

They have a partnership with metlife now.

Interesting. I dropped my NRA membership 20 years ago because of all the junk mail they generated. I haven't heard from ARRL about life insurance yet...I hope it stays that way.

[KI4NGN]

They do? I've been a league member for 20 years and I don't recall them ever trying to sell me life insurance, they have tried selling me insurance on my gear though...which I declined.

http://www.arrl.org/metlife/

[W4CBJ]

Here is my 2 cents from an O.F. I may not be the oldest f... is the crown but I attended my first amateur radio club meeting in March 1938. I was all of 11 years old. It was in the Maplewood section of Malden, MA (home of National Radio and James Millen Companies) with my older brother W1LSC (SK). He was all of 15 years old. Still can picture the woof-houng hanging on the wall. (A club to beat LIDS into submission). They were talking some foreign language: "modulation, impedance, reactance, etc.". We built rigs, sometimes they worked, sometimes not and we didn't know why. The ARRL (and others) publish some fine stuff. In order to learn, you gotta read. (An outdated concept.) In my old age, I have learned that there are two (2) important things to realize. 'There is no difference between CANNOT and WILL-NOT'. The results are exactly the same. 73 Joe W4CBJ

[ky5u]

In QST by the ARRL
was an article that had a bad smell
for the dufuses and bunglers
'twas ham by the numbers
if you're a dummy don't ask and don't tell.

[N3FT]

Did anyone happen to notice the table that showed the price of the KWM-2 in 1962 and 2008 dollars?

1962 - $1150
2008 - $8038

This demonstrates that top of the line (for the time) new gear has always been very expensive.

This puts rigs like the IC7700 & IC7800 into perspective.

It also demonstrates that today's $800 (new price) rigs would have cost about $100 in 1962.

Now compare the rig you got for $100 in 1962 with what you can get today for the same inflation adjusted dollars.

Compare that KWM-2 with the IC7700 (roughly the same ballpark when prices are adjusted).

Ham radio may not be cheap, but it has sure gotten a lot less expensive considering what you get for those hard earned dollars!

Mike
The ARRL's mantra for a long time is that the $10,000 rigs of today would have cost $500 many years ago. That is patently untrue, since it was impossible for rigs 20 years ago to have 90% of the features of our new gear. Its a total fallacy, derived from false premises. The radio with the features of a TS-520 would be nowadays made in China and cost $100. I don't buy the "inflationary dollar" theory at all. Its blatant propaganda.

Rob N3FT

[KI4NGN]

The ARRL's mantra for a long time is that the $10,000 rigs of today would have cost $500 many years ago. That is patently untrue, since it was impossible for rigs 20 years ago to have 90% of the features of our new gear. Its a total fallacy, derived from false premises. The radio with the features of a TS-520 would be nowadays made in China and cost $100. I don't buy the "inflationary dollar" theory at all. Its blatant propaganda.

Rob N3FT
The buying power, the value of $500 in 1962, would be the equivalent of ~$4000 today. That's not propaganda, but a fact.

Of course today's rigs with all of their features and capabilities were not available back then. Again, what's your point?

Their (and my) point was that for the equivalent buying power of those long ago dollars and today's dollars, we get much more value for our money. It doesn't matter why.

Mike

[ab0wr]

The ARRL's mantra for a long time is that the $10,000 rigs of today would have cost $500 many years ago. That is patently untrue, since it was impossible for rigs 20 years ago to have 90% of the features of our new gear. Its a total fallacy, derived from false premises. The radio with the features of a TS-520 would be nowadays made in China and cost $100. I don't buy the "inflationary dollar" theory at all. Its blatant propaganda.

Rob N3FT
You pretty much have it pegged. Those that talk about "inflationary dollars" conveniently forget about the other side of the equation which is "productivity". There has been enough productivity gain in electronics design and manufacture to more than offset inflation over the past two decades or more.

What has kept the price where it is is -- MARKETING --. It's the "keep up with the Joneses" phenomenon. You have to keep adding on ever more "features" in order to keep up with the Joneses so the price points never benefit from the productivity gains. A *very* good single conversion HF rig *could* be built for way less than $100 even including a DDS vfo and two crystal filters (I built mine for about that). It would be way more than enough rig for a beginner and make the hobby far easier to get into for many.

Guess what? The margin on such a rig isn't sufficient for anyone to market such a thing based on the size of the potential buyer pool. So it will never happen.

tim ab0wr

[KI4NGN]

You pretty much have it pegged. Those that talk about "inflationary dollars" conveniently forget about the other side of the equation which is "productivity". There has been enough productivity gain in electronics design and manufacture to more than offset inflation over the past two decades or more.

What has kept the price where it is is -- MARKETING --. It's the "keep up with the Joneses" phenomenon. You have to keep adding on ever more "features" in order to keep up with the Joneses so the price points never benefit from the productivity gains. A *very* good single conversion HF rig *could* be built for way less than $100 even including a DDS vfo and two crystal filters (I built mine for about that). It would be way more than enough rig for a beginner and make the hobby far easier to get into for many.

Guess what? The margin on such a rig isn't sufficient for anyone to market such a thing based on the size of the potential buyer pool. So it will never happen.

tim ab0wr
I guess I am just missing the point here, but would genuinely like to understand it.

Who get's into any business, especially manufacturing, if there isn't enough expected return on investment to make it worth it?

In not understanding the point, I guess I don't understand why you think that those who talk about inflationary dollars are conveniently forgetting anything. To what purpose?

It is a fact that $4K today has the buying power of $500 in 1962. What is being conveniently forgotten?

It is acknowledged that what that $4K will get you today in a ham rig is possible because of productivity and technological gains.

I guess the point I'm missing is that you believe that some, the ARRL or others, are somehow trying to "trick" people into believing something that is not true.

Sincerely and with no argumentative intent....what?

Mike

[K7JEM]

I think one thing to remember is that $100 today just is not much money. Kids and adults spend that kind of money on a whim, so getting the price of a rig down to that level really won't get a lot more people on the air. If a rig could be built with needed features for $100, someone should be able to make it for $200, and make some profit, it would still be the lowest priced transceiver on the market.

Good used rigs go in the $150-300 range, which should be affordable to about anyone with a job, or who is not homeless.

HR has never been more affordable, or had better overall equipment available.

Joe

[ab0wr]

I guess I am just missing the point here, but would genuinely like to understand it.

Who get's into any business, especially manufacturing, if there isn't enough expected return on investment to make it worth it?

In not understanding the point, I guess I don't understand why you think that those who talk about inflationary dollars are conveniently forgetting anything. To what purpose?

It is a fact that $4K today has the buying power of $500 in 1962. What is being conveniently forgotten?

It is acknowledged that what that $4K will get you today in a ham rig is possible because of productivity and technological gains.

I guess the point I'm missing is that you believe that some, the ARRL or others, are somehow trying to "trick" people into believing something that is not true.

Sincerely and with no argumentative intent....what?

Mike

What is so hard about it? A rig like a ts520 should cost **less** today instead of more. The productivity gains since the 1970's more than offset the inflation rises so the same rig *should* cost less, not more.

Look at TV's. You can get a 13" cable-ready, color TV today for less than $60 on sale. A 13" analog-tuner, BW TV in the 70's would have cost $150 or more! The price point has gone *down* instead of UP! In addition, the manufacturers are still making enough margin to justify their investment!

Yet what do we see in ham radio? EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Look at it this way. With a $40 Softrock SDR and a $400 laptop I can get more functionality than you would in an Icom 746Pro or 756ProIII for three to six times the price. With the SDR/Laptop I can record a 96khz (or more) chunk of the spectrum for hours and go back and review it later to see who was on, what propagation was, which signals looked good and which didn't, and on and on. I can change filter bandwidths, agc operation, etc just like in the Icoms.

I just don't believe what N3FT correctly identified as "propaganda". It's just another way to justify the price points set by the manufacturers.

tim ab0wr

[ab0wr]

I think one thing to remember is that $100 today just is not much money. Kids and adults spend that kind of money on a whim, so getting the price of a rig down to that level really won't get a lot more people on the air. If a rig could be built with needed features for $100, someone should be able to make it for $200, and make some profit, it would still be the lowest priced transceiver on the market.

Good used rigs go in the $150-300 range, which should be affordable to about anyone with a job, or who is not homeless.

HR has never been more affordable, or had better overall equipment available.

Joe

If you think $100 isn't much money then you aren't putting two kids through college, maintaining a household, and helping to support aging parents.

$100 is a *lot* of money even today. Do you understand how many hours a kid has to work at minimum wage today to take home $100? Especially after buying gas for their car?

If the kids you know spend that kind of money on a whim then you are living in a whole different class than most of us here in the US. My kids at college get $120 A MONTH for spending money. That goes for gas, movies, video games, etc -- whatever they need. I assure you that they don't drop $100 on a whim! very often. Most of the kids they hang with at school get by on even less.

Why would anyone today spend $150 on a used rig when they can buy a Softrock SDR for $40 -- assuming they have PC already (almost all younger people do)? The only thing you would possibly gain is higher power output levels. While this is not an inconsiderable benefit, the manufacturers could also make money off aftermarket, 20w-100w linears.

As I told Mike, I just don't believe a lot of the propaganda anymore. It just doesn't make sense when you stand back and look at things.

tim ab0wr

[WB2WIK]

What is so hard about it? A rig like a ts520 should cost **less** today instead of more. The productivity gains since the 1970's more than offset the inflation rises so the same rig *should* cost less, not more.

Look at TV's. You can get a 13" cable-ready, color TV today for less than $60 on sale. A 13" analog-tuner, BW TV in the 70's would have cost $150 or more! The price point has gone *down* instead of UP! In addition, the manufacturers are still making enough margin to justify their investment!

Yet what do we see in ham radio? EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Look at it this way. With a $40 Softrock SDR and a $400 laptop I can get more functionality than you would in an Icom 746Pro or 756ProIII for three to six times the price. With the SDR/Laptop I can record a 96khz (or more) chunk of the spectrum for hours and go back and review it later to see who was on, what propagation was, which signals looked good and which didn't, and on and on. I can change filter bandwidths, agc operation, etc just like in the Icoms.

I just don't believe what N3FT correctly identified as "propaganda". It's just another way to justify the price points set by the manufacturers.

tim ab0wr

::Tim, what we've seen in ham radio gear isn't "exactly the opposite" as you cited above.

An IC-718 (pretty decent entry-level, reasonably well-featured 160-10m SSB-CW xcvr) is still under $600 brand new, today, in 2008 "dollarettes." My old IC-740 cost more than that in 1982's much stronger dollars. Similar rig, similar features. My old Drake TR-7 with its needed accessories (RV-7, PS-7, NB-7, AUX-7 and three extra crystal filters) cost $2500 in 1978's rather strong dollars. An equivalent rig today is probably an IC-756PROIII which has all that stuff built in, plus a lot more (spectrum scope, better stability, etc) and costs about the same in today's weak 2008 dollars. It's more rig for the same money expressed in "current dollars," but we all know a 2008 dollar is hardly worth a 1978 half-dollar.

I have an SDR40 (original from 2005) and if you really believe that "rig," combined with a $400 PC, is equivalent to any sort of "real radio" today, that's incredible. For me, the SDR40 went into absolute overload the moment I plugged a good antenna into it. Its ability to hear a weak signal even within 20 kHz of a very strong one is nonexistent, and all the software in the world won't help that. With a small, lossy antenna it seems to do okay.* It was intended to be an experimental learning tool to help people become accustomed to the SDR GUI (FlexRadio), so stepping up to real hardware would be easier and less frustrating for those unfamiliar with a GUI operated transceiver. It was never intended to be a "real transceiver."

(*Actually, at my location, not even. I have a 1.2 MW BC station very close by to me that transmits all night long on 9975 kHz (KVOH) and desensitizes the SDR40 so badly, and creates so many undesired artifacts, it renders the receiver useless when it comes on the air. A homebrew LP filter with an Fco of 8 MHz in the transmission line helps this a bit, but the receiver would require much better filtering and decoupling to eliminate the problem.)

WB2WIK/6

[ab0wr]

::Tim, what we've seen in ham radio gear isn't "exactly the opposite" as you cited above.

An IC-718 (pretty decent entry-level, reasonably well-featured 160-10m SSB-CW xcvr) is still under $600 brand new, today, in 2008 "dollarettes." My old IC-740 cost more than that in 1982's much stronger dollars. Similar rig, similar features. My old Drake TR-7 with its needed accessories (RV-7, PS-7, NB-7, AUX-7 and three extra crystal filters) cost $2500 in 1978's rather strong dollars. An equivalent rig today is probably an IC-756PROIII which has all that stuff built in, plus a lot more (spectrum scope, better stability, etc) and costs about the same in today's weak 2008 dollars. It's more rig for the same money expressed in "current dollars," but we all know a 2008 dollar is hardly worth a 1978 half-dollar.

I have an SDR40 (original from 2005) and if you really believe that "rig," combined with a $400 PC, is equivalent to any sort of "real radio" today, that's incredible. For me, the SDR40 went into absolute overload the moment I plugged a good antenna into it. Its ability to hear a weak signal even within 20 kHz of a very strong one is nonexistent, and all the software in the world won't help that. With a small, lossy antenna it seems to do okay.* It was intended to be an experimental learning tool to help people become accustomed to the SDR GUI (FlexRadio), so stepping up to real hardware would be easier and less frustrating for those unfamiliar with a GUI operated transceiver. It was never intended to be a "real transceiver."

(*Actually, at my location, not even. I have a 1.2 MW BC station very close by to me that transmits all night long on 9975 kHz (KVOH) and desensitizes the SDR40 so badly, and creates so many undesired artifacts, it renders the receiver useless when it comes on the air. A homebrew LP filter with an Fco of 8 MHz in the transmission line helps this a bit, but the receiver would require much better filtering and decoupling to eliminate the problem.)

WB2WIK/6

My softrock performs as well as my Icom 751a as far as minimum discernable signal on 80m and 40m and certainly blocks no worse. I use primarily an 80m dipole (NVIS) about 30ft off the ground and a tuner for multi-band operation. The antenna is quite acceptable for receive and transmit. I don't have a medium wave station that close but I do have a broadcast station about 3-4miles away and it doesn't cause any noticeable problems in the softrock when used on 80m (I have built up simple bandpass filters which probably helps). I do get agc pumping in the 751a when a nearby ham is on the air with his "kilowatt" but I don't notice it in either the softrock or my single-conversion receiver.

The IC-718 provides about the same receive functionality as my single conversion homebuilt receiver (I have not built in any noise blanker yet) and is about 4 times the price (if the $600 is half receive and half transmit as far as price). It certainly has a higher powered transmitter but is, again, about 4 times more costly.

Tell me again how the IC-718 is cheap compared to inflation? Especially when I can duplicate almost all of the functionality with no quantity discounts on parts and still wind up with a cost that is 4 times less?

The issue here isn't just how many features the manufacturers can stick in to keep the price point high. It's how cheap could they make a functional rig -- and why they don't.

Make the spectrum scope an optional item in the 756proIII (heck throw in a $40 softrock as an option to connect to an external PC for a spectrum scope) and just how much would you expect the price of a 756proIII to come down?

If you say anything besides zero you are only kidding yourself -- because Icom won't do it!

tim ab0wr

[KC6ZLV]

What is so hard about it? A rig like a ts520 should cost **less** today instead of more. The productivity gains since the 1970's more than offset the inflation rises so the same rig *should* cost less, not more.

Look at TV's. You can get a 13" cable-ready, color TV today for less than $60 on sale. A 13" analog-tuner, BW TV in the 70's would have cost $150 or more! The price point has gone *down* instead of UP! In addition, the manufacturers are still making enough margin to justify their investment!

Yet what do we see in ham radio? EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Look at it this way. With a $40 Softrock SDR and a $400 laptop I can get more functionality than you would in an Icom 746Pro or 756ProIII for three to six times the price. With the SDR/Laptop I can record a 96khz (or more) chunk of the spectrum for hours and go back and review it later to see who was on, what propagation was, which signals looked good and which didn't, and on and on. I can change filter bandwidths, agc operation, etc just like in the Icoms.

I just don't believe what N3FT correctly identified as "propaganda". It's just another way to justify the price points set by the manufacturers.

tim ab0wr

No, it isn't the opposite. Televisions and computers are produced in runs of tens of thousands at a time based on how many they can get out the warehouse door before a competitor beats them to it. Two-way radio equipment is produced based on how many they can sell. Televisions, computers, and most other entertainment devices are of poor manufacturing quality. Communications equipment has a much better build quality.

In 1991 I paid about $260 for a Yaesu FT-2400. It was one of the least expensive 2-meter FM mobiles at that time. There are no extras on it. Today and equivalent would cost half the price and have twelve times the memory.

You should really take a look at some of the magazines from the mid-70's to early 80's and compare the price of equipment to what you can get today.

A new ham can get a rig with CW/SSB/AM/FM/Digital on all bands below 70cm with money left over for a good power supply, coax and a few antennas, for around $1000 when buying all new gear.

Also consider that performance of the least expensive options today (FT-897D, etc) outperform tranceivers built 25 years ago.

In the 80's, well, how much was USED TS-820 or TS-830 going for?

[K2PG]

It seems to me that the ARRL should forget about amateur radio and dedicate itself to the Part 95 services (CB, remote control, MURS, FRS, etc.). They could then sell their rag at truck stops. QST hasn't run any worthwhile articles in many years, preferring to serve as a Japanese ricebox catalog interspersed with nauseating human interest crap that would be more appropriate for the Reader's Digest. The CBification of amateur radio continues...with the blessing of the self-anointed high priests in Newington, Connecticut!

[n8yx]

It seems to me that the ARRL should forget about amateur radio and dedicate itself to the Part 95 services (CB, remote control, MURS, FRS, etc.). They could then sell their rag at truck stops. QST hasn't run any worthwhile articles in many years, preferring to serve as a Japanese ricebox catalog interspersed with nauseating human interest crap that would be more appropriate for the Reader's Digest. The CBification of amateur radio continues...with the blessing of the self-anointed high priests in Newington, Connecticut!

Watch it. You've surely opened yourself up as a target for the apologists now, fella...

[KC0BUF]

It seems to me that the ARRL should forget about amateur radio and dedicate itself to the Part 95 services (CB, remote control, MURS, FRS, etc.). They could then sell their rag at truck stops. QST hasn't run any worthwhile articles in many years, preferring to serve as a Japanese ricebox catalog interspersed with nauseating human interest crap that would be more appropriate for the Reader's Digest. The CBification of amateur radio continues...with the blessing of the self-anointed high priests in Newington, Connecticut!

Stop buying QSTs, and go for QEX instead. Problem solved.

But then you wouldn't have anything to complain about, would you?

[KI4NGN]

Watch it. You've surely opened yourself up as a target for the apologists now, fella...

Apologists? Rice box catalog?

I'm looking at the May QST right now. Yep, there are rice boxes in there.

As well as Hy-gain, Comet, Ameritron, Elecraft, AOR, Ten-Tec, West Mountain, FlexRadio, LDG, High Sierra, SteppIR.

Rice box catalog?

It doesn't take an "apologist" to see an ARRL-basher making absurd comments.

[n8yx]

Apologists? Rice box catalog?

I'm looking at the May QST right now. Yep, there are rice boxes in there.

As well as Hy-gain, Comet, Ameritron, Elecraft, AOR, Ten-Tec, West Mountain, FlexRadio, LDG, High Sierra, SteppIR.

Rice box catalog?

It doesn't take an "apologist" to see an ARRL-basher making absurd comments.

Darn...did I forget that "tongue-in-cheek" smiley AGAIN?

[WB2WIK]

Stop buying QSTs, and go for QEX instead. Problem solved.

But then you wouldn't have anything to complain about, would you?

::QST comes standard with League membership, there's nothing to buy. QEX is extra cost, like it or not. If members could choose to receive either QST or QEX, that might be a good idea, but they're not structured that way at this time.

[WB2WIK]

Apologists? Rice box catalog?

I'm looking at the May QST right now. Yep, there are rice boxes in there.

As well as Hy-gain, Comet, Ameritron, Elecraft, AOR, Ten-Tec, West Mountain, FlexRadio, LDG, High Sierra, SteppIR.

Rice box catalog?

It doesn't take an "apologist" to see an ARRL-basher making absurd comments.

::Comet is Japanese.

But you forgot MFJ! MFJ and its affiliates (Hy Gain, Ameritron, Vectronics, etc.) are probably the largest advertisers they have...all "American made."

[KI4NGN]

What is so hard about it? A rig like a ts520 should cost **less** today instead of more. The productivity gains since the 1970's more than offset the inflation rises so the same rig *should* cost less, not more.

Look at TV's. You can get a 13" cable-ready, color TV today for less than $60 on sale. A 13" analog-tuner, BW TV in the 70's would have cost $150 or more! The price point has gone *down* instead of UP! In addition, the manufacturers are still making enough margin to justify their investment!

Yet what do we see in ham radio? EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Look at it this way. With a $40 Softrock SDR and a $400 laptop I can get more functionality than you would in an Icom 746Pro or 756ProIII for three to six times the price. With the SDR/Laptop I can record a 96khz (or more) chunk of the spectrum for hours and go back and review it later to see who was on, what propagation was, which signals looked good and which didn't, and on and on. I can change filter bandwidths, agc operation, etc just like in the Icoms.

I just don't believe what N3FT correctly identified as "propaganda". It's just another way to justify the price points set by the manufacturers.

tim ab0wr
You're completely ignoring the technological aspects that have increased along with those productivity gains.

Sure, the cost of a simple color TV is less expensive the BW was 30 years ago, but look at what you're comparing. BW, color TV? Who makes a BW anymore? Analog versus digital? Who makes an analog one anymore? Using today's commonly available technology, you get a basic television at less money because of productivity and technological advances that have been maturing for many years.

But you're still talking about a television that still has the same functionality: tune in to a signal and display a picture.

When comparing rigs from the past with today's, you are getting far more functionality. The features that you say are included to "keep up the price" are the features that are demanded by the market.

You said it yourself: they probably could produce a very simple, low priced transceiver for entry level, but there's not enough of a market to make it worth it.

They're producing for the market, and the market that is profitable for them isn't asking for the least expensive entry rigs, but rigs with DSP's, no-tune finals, automatic tuners, etc, etc. In other words the market is being driven by the technological advances, and it's the productivity gains that are keeping the prices within the reach of the market that is profitable for them. You know, the reason why they do business.

Mike

PS: And what has this to do with the ARRL? Is there now a theory that they're in cahoots with the main vendors to keep prices "high"? (My original reply was to the ARRL "mantra" post.)

[KI4NGN]

::Comet is Japanese.

But you forgot MFJ! MFJ and its affiliates (Hy Gain, Ameritron, Vectronics, etc.) are probably the largest advertisers they have...all "American made."
I thought it might be, but wasn't sure. :)

How could I have forgetten MFJ! Thanks!

[w5ew]

::QST comes standard with League membership, there's nothing to buy. QEX is extra cost, like it or not. If members could choose to receive either QST or QEX, that might be a good idea, but they're not structured that way at this time.

Choice of QST, QEX or NCJ is exactly what K5MC a candidate for Delta division director proposes in his platform statements. Read it for yourself at talk and opinions/k5mc:candidate for delta division director.

73,
Ray
W5EW

[ab1ga]

::QST comes standard with League membership, there's nothing to buy. QEX is extra cost, like it or not. If members could choose to receive either QST or QEX, that might be a good idea, but they're not structured that way at this time.

The simplest, and I believe the best structure, would be to integrate QEX and NCJ into QST and adjust the membership fees accordingly. I'm a Life Member, so in one way I've "paid my dues", but if the League wanted an added chaser to accomodate the higher costs, I'd pony up in a heartbeat.

I did a bit of checking and found that QEX was started in 1981 as a monthly, then went bimonthly to allow more in-depth articles. I remember when I first started getting QST on my own in 1975 that letters were beginning to appear complaining about the technical articles and how they were too hard to for the average member to understand. I've always wondered whether QEX was intended to be a home for the "avant-garde" experimenter, or a place of exile for those who didn't get bent out of shape if they ran across an article they couldn't understand right away.

I subscribe to QEX and I for one think the overall technical level is about what it was in the QST of the 1970s. I've looked through the NCJ contents and found a few items, mostly about antennas, which I think could have been of use and interest to the general membership. But by placing such material in separate journals the League makes it more difficult for the general membership to discover and expand their skills in these areas. Combining QEX and NCJ into QST may involve some growing pains, and may force some more spirited discussion in the editorial offices about which items should run in a given issue, but I can't help but think that this would be preferable to the creation of "interest ghettos" around a set of dedicated publications.

[K2PG]

Apologists? Rice box catalog?

I'm looking at the May QST right now. Yep, there are rice boxes in there.

As well as Hy-gain, Comet, Ameritron, Elecraft, AOR, Ten-Tec, West Mountain, FlexRadio, LDG, High Sierra, SteppIR.

Rice box catalog?

It doesn't take an "apologist" to see an ARRL-basher making absurd comments.

How long have you been reading QST? Go back about 30-35 years and that magazine was a treasure trove of construction articles and technical tips. Today's version of QST is worse than the old S9 CB magazine of the 1970s. Perhaps you should also review the history of the ARRL and see some of the asinine things that they proposed to the FCC over the years before you label me as an "ARRL basher". An organization that purports to "represent" us, then does the things that they have done over the past 40 years, deserves to be bashed. If the NRA represented gun owners the way the ARRL "represents" us, the only people who would be allowed to have firearms would be the police and the military.

As for "choosing" to receive QEX, rather than QST, ARRL members have no choice. QST automatically comes with ARRL membership. When I still held ARRL membership, I used to toss that rag directly into the trash, as it had nothing worthwhile in it. If you want QEX, you have to pay extra. In the old days, QST had excellent technical articles of practical use to amateur radio operators. They were not too heavy on math and they helped you to become acquainted with radio and basic electronics. Their construction projects were stepping stones to my present career in broadcasting. Today, that rag caters more to the appliance operator and glorified CB'er types who just "got into HAM". It isn't even good for use as toilet paper, as the glossy sheets are too rough and they don't absorb liquids well.

I wouldn't waste my $39.

[KI4NGN]

How long have you been reading QST? Go back about 30-35 years and that magazine was a treasure trove of construction articles and technical tips. Today's version of QST is worse than the old S9 CB magazine of the 1970s. Perhaps you should also review the history of the ARRL and see some of the asinine things that they proposed to the FCC over the years before you label me as an "ARRL basher". An organization that purports to "represent" us, then does the things that they have done over the past 40 years, deserves to be bashed. If the NRA represented gun owners the way the ARRL "represents" us, the only people who would be allowed to have firearms would be the police and the military.

As for "choosing" to receive QEX, rather than QST, ARRL members have no choice. QST automatically comes with ARRL membership. When I still held ARRL membership, I used to toss that rag directly into the trash, as it had nothing worthwhile in it. If you want QEX, you have to pay extra. In the old days, QST had excellent technical articles of practical use to amateur radio operators. They were not too heavy on math and they helped you to become acquainted with radio and basic electronics. Their construction projects were stepping stones to my present career in broadcasting. Today, that rag caters more to the appliance operator and glorified CB'er types who just "got into HAM". It isn't even good for use as toilet paper, as the glossy sheets are too rough and they don't absorb liquids well.

I wouldn't waste my $39.
Sorry if you don't like the magazine. Things change. Ham radio and the technology involved is a much broader hobby than it was 30-35 years ago. Did you ever consider writing some technical article or construction project and sending it to them for publication? I suspect not. You're disappointed that they haven't continued to be the vehicle for publishing the work of other amateurs at a level that you expect. Did it ever occur to you that there are perhaps fewer hams doing the work that results in some publication? Or that many modern projects are now beyond the scope of what used to be the cornerstone of the construction articles 30-35 years ago, and for that reason they created a separate publication?

My response was to it being called a rice box catalog, which is obviously untrue, and your reply (in its entirety) confirmed the ARRL-basher moniker.

Mike

[ai4ep]

...since the fcc / arrl removed the cw requirement back last year, things just aint been the same.

Folks get by with doing LESS than ever before to become an HF operator.

The tests are easier ( written ) then ever before.

We might as well just eliminate all kinds of licensing and callsigns...just turn it all into a big old cb band.

Maybe I should be careful of what I wish for, it might come true.

Heck, close to half of it already has.

[WA9SVD]

That is EXACTLY the "Dumbing Down" that I was talking about. People regularly buy new linears using 3KVDC, and can easily electrocute themselves by fooling with their breaker box, so the whole high voltage thing is a red herring.

Rob N3FT

I will agree with the "lack of experience and knowledge" of many newbies. But what I question is whether it's THEIR fault, or if it's what is being "sold" to them as Amateur Radio today, in the here and now.

How many of the newbies are only interested in EMCOMM, and can't tell the difference from a uA747 dual Op Amp and a Boeing 747? How many of them actually CARE that there is a difference? They are sold Amateur Radio as an applinace hobby, not a technical hobby, as it was in the past.
And so they come into Amateur Radio with little or no technical or electronic knowledge. IS there anything in the written exams about HV safety procedures? WHY NOT, or are the written exams (written for, and by Amateurs) designed for appliance operators?
The famous (infamous?) "get a license in a weekend" schools certainly are no favor to Amateur Radio; it's impossible to teach any meaningful amount of technical knowledge (and absolutely NO practical experience) in a weekend. But THAT is what the FCC and our national association apparently want, so we have to accept the fact.

Yes, many newbies are buying amps. And the likelihood of their ever cracking the case is almost infinitely small; they will for the most part send it back to the manufacturer or some dealer's service bench if anything goes wrong.
Not all that long ago, there was even a post from one Amateur who offered to pay someone to replace the tube in his am