Illegals and the taxes they pay

[W7WV]

I have long been suspicious of just why our government does not implement a program to detect monies being paid in by multiple employers from different locations of the country to Social Security accounts.
For instance many illegals take someone's SS # to get a job. They will never be able to file a claim with SS so the government just gets to keep that money. Needless to say only one claim could be filed with that #.
Today I ran into one of our many border patrol agents locally and we were talking. He also brought to my attention that these people also pay federal and state incomes taxes but can never get any of it back as they cannot file (or are afraid to file) with the agencies to get that money back.
It appears that quite a bite of money is collected by various agencies that will just be part of the system for them.
I assume this is yet another valid reason to continue as we have been doing with our lack of enforcement of the laws. It would appear that everybody benefits except the taxpayers and the illegals.

[k8wpj]

Im not sure i understand your point...

If Jose Jalepeno choses to spoof my SSN, let's say XXX-YY-1234, and he takes a job, his employer would then start making contributions to that SSN 'XXX-YY-1234'... Which the IRS would credit to that number along with my contributions, made from the payroll from my legitimate job...

Now to my point, Jose might not be able to file a 1040, to claim a refund, but, I sure could.... Why wouldn;t that extra money show up as a surplus in my account, (let's not forget the W-2 statements...Whoever gets those has all they need to file the 1040)

I guess my point is that first, it's a wonder more people don;t see this stuff happening, and try to collect the money paid in under bogus SSN's

If Jose pays in, but doesn;t file, then why doesnt the extra money paid in count toward the refund due the legitimate taxpayer.

I would think instead that the vast majority of illegal ailiens avoid any contact with the government in any form so as to avoid detection.

[KD6NIG]

I would think that this wouldn't be happening much for a few reasons:

1) The illegal would be bringing attention to himself if the IRS or other gov't agency suddenly noticed multiple jobs on someones SS#, but the tax return not claiming all the income. It would likely trigger an audit for the actual SS#'s owner also.

2) Most employers employ illegals not because of their willingness to work, but the willingness of them to work for lower wages and/or for board and even lower wages. Reporting such wages to the IRS would require them to cook the books even further by either reporting it as legal wages but less hours worked, or something similar. Otherwise they would be shooting themselves in the foot by reporting the fact they aren't paying the federal minimum wage properly.

If anything, I could see them maybe telling the worker that they are making X per hour, X is deducted for "taxes" and X is deducted for room and board, but I'm betting the X deduction for taxes is never even leaving the place. It would just be another excuse to pay them less. They are complying with the law.

Right.

:)

[VE1IDX]

I would think that this wouldn't be happening much for a few reasons:

1) The illegal would be bringing attention to himself if the IRS or other gov't agency suddenly noticed multiple jobs on someones SS#, but the tax return not claiming all the income. It would likely trigger an audit for the actual SS#'s owner also.

2) Most employers employ illegals not because of their willingness to work, but the willingness of them to work for lower wages and/or for board and even lower wages. Reporting such wages to the IRS would require them to cook the books even further by either reporting it as legal wages but less hours worked, or something similar. Otherwise they would be shooting themselves in the foot by reporting the fact they aren't paying the federal minimum wage properly.

If anything, I could see them maybe telling the worker that they are making X per hour, X is deducted for "taxes" and X is deducted for room and board, but I'm betting the X deduction for taxes is never even leaving the place. It would just be another excuse to pay them less. They are complying with the law.

Right.

:)


I knew I saw an article about this somewhere in the last few days.Note that it is from 2003 yet was covered verbaitum in a CNN online article within the last week.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/14/politics/main549153.shtml

[k8wpj]

I would think that this wouldn't be happening much for a few reasons:

1) The illegal would be bringing attention to himself if the IRS or other gov't agency suddenly noticed multiple jobs on someones SS#, but the tax return not claiming all the income. It would likely trigger an audit for the actual SS#'s owner also.

2) Most employers employ illegals not because of their willingness to work, but the willingness of them to work for lower wages and/or for board and even lower wages. Reporting such wages to the IRS would require them to cook the books even further by either reporting it as legal wages but less hours worked, or something similar. Otherwise they would be shooting themselves in the foot by reporting the fact they aren't paying the federal minimum wage properly.

If anything, I could see them maybe telling the worker that they are making X per hour, X is deducted for "taxes" and X is deducted for room and board, but I'm betting the X deduction for taxes is never even leaving the place. It would just be another excuse to pay them less. They are complying with the law.

Right.

:)

now that makes perfect sense, to me...

[w6ire]

I ran into one of our many border patrol agents locally and we were talking. He also brought to my attention that these people also pay federal and state incomes taxes but can never get any of it back as they cannot file (or are afraid to file) with the agencies to get that money back.


Not entirely true. I'm an electrical contractor in the construction industry and 99% of construction workers in Southern California are illegal aliens and being paid cash. They often have children which are American Citizens and since they report no income they qualify for and receive Aid To Families With Dependent Children and food stamps. (they stopped printing stamps years ago, now they get an ATM card).

I know hundreds of illegal aliens and I speak spanish and I have never met in my entire life, an illegal alien that paid taxes.

[W5GA]

The real thrill comes when they buy a house. My wife is a loan underwriter, and it's not at all unusual to have the loan app come in with 3 or more SSN's on it. What's amazing is they are all backed up by fraudulent tax returns!

[k9kxq]

Not entirely true. I'm an electrical contractor in the construction industry and 99% of construction workers in Southern California are illegal aliens and being paid cash. They often have children which are American Citizens and since they report no income they qualify for and receive Aid To Families With Dependent Children and food stamps. (they stopped printing stamps years ago, now they get an ATM card).

I know hundreds of illegal aliens and I speak spanish and I have never met in my entire life, an illegal alien that paid taxes.

You are so correct, my wife is a second generation American Hispanic, born here, my father in law was born in CO, he is a Korean War Vet.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,
their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.

Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average
cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ."
Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!

KXQ

[AB8RU]

Get something like Life Alert so at least any fraudulent activity they can call the Police and have some legal action , also everyone get familiar with the GOVT WEB SITE


http://www.ice.gov


Your one stop source to government activity & enforcement.

I heard one place was busted and this year I drove by the place has a FOR SALE Sign out front.

Lotta news there if you have not yet stopped in there click on the link.:)

[N4VGB]

I would guess that it is possible that a tiny percentage of illegal aliens do indeed falsify SSNs for employment but around here 99% of them work for cash only. They do somehow seem to qualify for all the freebies at the same time? The local public hospital is full of them and the number of pregnant females is staggering here, drop a kid on the American taxpayers dollars and mom & dad are in for sure!

[WB2WIK]

Despite these issues and the obvious ramifications, a lot of people are against DNA stamping at birth.

I have no idea why.

If everyone were DNA stamped and in a data base, it would be absolutely impossible for anyone to misrepresent themselves with regard to birthplace, or anything else.

Try for a job? ID by DNA. Try for SSA? ID by DNA. Try for welfare, food stamps, any sort of assistance? ID by DNA.

It's too late to catch the current generation, but future generations could be 100% assured benefits being provided are on the up and up. Should have started this 20 years ago, we'd be benefiting from it today.

If everyone were DNA stamped, technology would have to "catch up" to make DNA identification fast, painless and cheap because competition would drive the technology. It used to take days to DNA type. Now it takes hours. It could take "seconds." The technology is available. Someone just has to need it.

WB2WIK/6

[n2ize]

Despite these issues and the obvious ramifications, a lot of people are against DNA stamping at birth.

I have no idea why.

If everyone were DNA stamped and in a data base, it would be absolutely impossible for anyone to misrepresent themselves with regard to birthplace, or anything else.

Try for a job? ID by DNA. Try for SSA? ID by DNA. Try for welfare, food stamps, any sort of assistance? ID by DNA.


Actually it's not nearly as foolproof as most people think. Clever, and even not so clever individuals who want to committ acts of crime, deceptions, or misrepresentation can, and have, taken advantage of the use of DNA as a positive identifier.



It's too late to catch the current generation, but future generations could be 100% assured benefits being provided are on the up and up. Should have started this 20 years ago, we'd be benefiting from it today.

If everyone were DNA stamped, technology would have to "catch up" to make DNA identification fast, painless and cheap because competition would drive the technology. It used to take days to DNA type. Now it takes hours. It could take "seconds." The technology is available. Someone just has to need it.
WB2WIK/6

Not everyone likes the idea of having their DNA fingerprint on record. Yes, it's true that there are positive uses for DNA as a positive identification system (although that can be thwarted). It can also be used to frame someone for a crime they didn't commit . In addition much can be determined from DNA including genetic disposition for certain diseases, etc. In short DNA is not the 100% foolproof positive identifier many people mistake it to be. It is also more personal information that many people are wary about making a matter of public record.Society is not 100% and there will always be mistakes, mishaps, problems and margins of error, with or without massive DNA fingerprinting. I think people should really think twice before making DNA fingerprinting mandatory for the entire population. There are some gains but there are also many losses.

[AE6IP]

I know hundreds of illegal aliens and I speak spanish and I have never met in my entire life, an illegal alien that paid taxes.

Not one of them ever bought anything in the state of California?

I doubt it.

It's not just illegals on the cash economy. Depending on the sources you trust, somewhere around 10-15% of all jobs are under the table and off the books.

[W3MIV]

Not one of them ever bought anything in the state of California?

I doubt it.

It's not just illegals on the cash economy. Depending on the sources you trust, somewhere around 10-15% of all jobs are under the table and off the books.

The "cash economy" extends beyond the cash economy, too. Lots of opportunities available for many SB ops to fly under tax radar.

[W7WV]

Actually many here in AZ have SS #s so they can be employed.
Stolen or otherwise.
That way the employer says all the ID he is required to have is there anyway, real or not.

[w6ire]

Not one of them ever bought anything in the state of California?

I doubt it.

It's not just illegals on the cash economy. Depending on the sources you trust, somewhere around 10-15% of all jobs are under the table and off the books.

So you're counting STATE SALES TAX as their contribution to the USA? I do agree on the 15% underground economy figure, few people ever discuss this.

[w6ire]

Despite these issues and the obvious ramifications, a lot of people are against DNA stamping at birth.

I have no idea why.
WB2WIK/6

It has to do with the potential for the state to abuse and misuse this information. The government has a poor record when it comes to privacy and such matters.

DNA evidence is very easy to fake. Remember the OJ trial? OJ's DNA did not appear on any evidence until after he had his blood drawn and Detective Van Adder inexplicably took OJ's blood sample home along with OJ's shoes, socks and other evidence....

[KV1M]

Not entirely true. I'm an electrical contractor in the construction industry and 99% of construction workers in Southern California are illegal aliens and being paid cash. They often have children which are American Citizens and since they report no income they qualify for and receive Aid To Families With Dependent Children and food stamps. (they stopped printing stamps years ago, now they get an ATM card).

I know hundreds of illegal aliens and I speak spanish and I have never met in my entire life, an illegal alien that paid taxes.

Yup, had to quit house painting (as a union member no less) because getting work was tough when the contractors would just go down to the specified and well known bus stop on Canal Street in San Rafael to get illegals at half the price they would have to pay me. The union was no help in this.
Same goes for roofing, drywall, plumbing, electrical and now even framing.

They most definitely ARE taking the jobs I wanted before I had to switch careers (after a prolonged period of starvation) and they are not paying tax's.