NatGeo to use TV and Amateur Radio frequencies for wildlife sensing

[g4tut]

NatGeo to use TV and Amateur Radio frequencies for wildlife sensing

A report on TVTechnology.Com by Doug Lung highlights that the FCC has issued a licence to National Geographic permitting them to use TV and some Amateur Radio frequencies for Wildlife Sensing.

National Geographic has been issued licence WE2XMB and can use the 54–72, 76–88, 174–216, 420–432, 433.92, 470–608, 614–806 and 902–928 MHz bands.

Read the full article at
http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0115/t.12757.html

The same article mentions that the FCC have granted a licence WE2XMS to the Colorado Space Grant Consortium at the University of Colorado in Boulder permitting them to use 144-146 MHz and 435-440 MHz for testing the Amateur Radio CubeSat atmospheric neutral density explorer.

IARU Amateur Radio Frequency Co-ordination - Hermes CubeSat http://www.amsat.org.uk/iaru/finished_detail.asp?serial=104

Colorado Space Grant Consortium
http://spacegrant.colorado.edu/

The latest list of FCC experimental license grants, covering the period from Jan. 1, 2008, to Feb. 1, 2008 can be seen at http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-281372A1.pdf

TV Technology.Com
http://www.tvtechnology.com/







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[KD5HLG]

DO they have to make sure they do not cause harm to current users before
the transmit

73's
KD5HLG
Ernest

[w0aew]

No animals will be QRM'ed in the making of these transmissions. :)

[K1CJS]

DO they have to make sure they do not cause harm to current users before
the transmit

73's
KD5HLG
Ernest

Think about what happened with BPL then provide your own answer--and I'm serious about this. One of those two will probably complain about 'interference' from us, and guess who'll have to take a backseat.

[k5co]

What do you bet the FCC found a way to make a buck. National Geographics is a commercial enterprise......and using Ham frequencies?? I admit, they probably won't cause interference. But that's a bit like me borrowing your wife when I promise not to get he pregnant. It's still you wife.

This is my idea of an ugly precedence and what do you bet they will license our pieces of the spectrum to others? What the heck, ham is dying. Right?

:mad:

[wa3vjb]

I have turned suspicious of the International Amateur Radio Union ever since their Region 2 delegation sold out and abandoned thousands of AM enthusiasts who wanted to support the IARU's revised band plan that took effect in January for hobbyists in North America.

The IARU are involved in this project here, too, but it looks like it's aboveboard. There are two areas of operating planned, and the one that proposes to utilize frequencies in the Amateur Service is run by licensed radio hobbyists. Brian Sanders KCØWJJ is listed as the point of contact.

The frequency ranges 144-146 MHz and 435-440 MHz can be utilized under the WE2XMS license grant for testing the Amateur Radio CubeSat atmospheric neutral density explorer. They are shown as part of a project with AMSAT.

Separately, researchers would not need Amateur licensing to utilize WE2XMB on the other experimental frequency ranges noted.

Again, however, I point out what a shame it is that the IARU did not feel compelled to include the numerically more significant facet of the hobby of AM operations in its HF coordination planning, which is completely aside from this posting except for prompting my scrutiny about their latest activities in conjunction with National Geographic.

The IARU should be closely watched, since ARRL hacks populate both the Region 2 delegation that represents all U.S. licensees, and the overall administrative body. This same group is the one that continues to threaten to seek mandatory regulations that would segregate our activities by bandwidth rather than mode. They have at least temporarily moved a step closer to their goal by persuading IARU Region 2 delegates to use specific bandwidth numbers in their coordination scheme, instead of generalized references to signal footprint that all of us could more easily ascertain.

Bedlam would follow if such a plan were implemented by the FCC at the ARRL's behest, because it would aggravate the problem of incompatible, automated digital intrusion on popular mainstream modes we hobbyists now enjoy. For now, such automated datastreams interfere only as the result of a loophole in portions of the HF bands designated for narrow mode activity.

Thank you for allowing me to mix these topics, for the reasons stated.

[N8QWS]

Sounds like a good use for these frequencies, since Nat.Geo got an amateur call sign and applied to the FCC for their usage what is the problem?? I don’t think they will be strapping a KW amp on the back of a bear or longhorn sheep and this will be in remote areas so who will they QRM??
This is most likely for crittercam which is a 1 watt narrowband digital video feed that records and sends in bursts much like the Mars rover does.

As for Cubesat, this will be weak signal transmissions of a short burst response from commands from a ground control station with a continuous low power beacon. Worry if you will but if and when it is launched I bet there will be a lot of Ham satellite receivers trying to capture telemetry. The ground testing may pose a QRM danger if you are trying to use your HT in the lab when they are testing it.

Stop being so paranoid !! They are not tapping your phone! They are not watching you from space! They do not want to jam your HF signals with BPL! If you want to worry, worry about all the non FCC type accepted junk coming from China. At least much of the sub 1 GHZ stuff is now obsolete so as the stuff that was snuck in dies we only have to worry about the microwave bands which are not very useful for DX. The FCC is getting the states updated to digital to free up bandwidth for commercial use which should make our ham frequencies even more secure long into the future.

[WD4HXG]

[B]WE2XMB and can use the 54–72, 76–88, 174–216, 420–432, 433.92, 470–608, 614–806 and 902–928 MHz bands.


Of all the bands listed above 420-432, 433.92 and the 902-928 Mhz bands are the only amateur allocations and even then amateurs are listed as secondary. The 902-928 band is already an allocation for various Part 15 devices. 433.92 is used by the wireless entry system of many cars.

So why all the handwringing. It has been obvious for a long time the 420-430 is underutilized and that usually means it is only a matter of time before we lose status.

[K7ZZY]

What do you bet the FCC found a way to make a buck. National Geographics is a commercial enterprise......and using Ham frequencies??


Where in the brief article does it state that National Geographic will be using
exclusive Amateur radio service allocations at all??
Answer= Nowhere.
That would plainly be contrary to FCC rules.

it does say:
that the FCC have granted a licence WE2XMS to the Colorado Space Grant Consortium at the University of Colorado in Boulder permitting them to use 144-146 MHz and 435-440 MHz for testing the Amateur Radio CubeSat atmospheric neutral density explorer.

g4tut, for some unknown reason, added the misleading and inaccurate words: and Amateur Radio,
to the subject of the post:
NatGeo to use TV and Amateur Radio frequencies for wildlife sensing

The article's actual title is:
NatGeo to Use TV Frequencies for Wildlife Sensing, Imaging

...Nat.Geo got an amateur call sign...
No, they did not.
They cannot possibly qualify for one.
It's an experimental license.

It pays to read the article in full, rather than just the subject line of a post
before commenting...

[KC7RJT]

I agree that they went about it in an honorable way. They went through channels, they waited for their callsign and they will be low power.

Besides, they will use our spectrum last as they too would have to deal with signals alot more powerfull...ours. Wherever they setup shop they will have
repeaters,packet,simplex,sattelites and any number of things going on, on or near their frequency.

I don't know about you, but i pitty the biologist that tries to track the milliwatt signal of some rare quacker flying in southern California with the tight spectrum there.

Or maybe george just made another back-door deal on the way out.

I have an open mind...go ahead...change it.

KC7RJT-.-

[K7ZZY]

I agree that they went about it in an honorable way. They went through channels, they waited for their callsign and they will be low power...

...I don't know about you, but i pitty the biologist that tries to track the milliwatt signal of some rare quacker flying in southern California with the tight spectrum there....

OMG. READ the ARTICLE!
Carefully.

NatGeo is not using ANY exclusive amateur radio frequency period.
They're using TV frequencies, and are limited to Washington, DC.

they will use our spectrum last...

They're NOT using our bloody exclusive spectrum.

The world's flat, not round.
I give up.

[KC7RJT]

So it is flat...aaahh hhaaaa! I knew it....:D

[N0FPE]

lolololol this is all too funny....the word secondary comes to mind....lololol :) :) :p:);):cool:

[kt4xd]

The rich will become more affluent, and the poor will live more in despair...

[w8vho]

Well sounds like a good reason to save your old portable tv's, so when the end days come, we can run around the woods to hunt these animals for food! Just dont eat the transmitter too then the government will hunt you down! ;)

[kc0kha]

National Geographic has the interests of National Geographic in mind in any thing that they do. They want to sell magazines, that is their bottom line. What we need to do is figure out how many species we have on the earth, and then figure out which ones to try to conserve to provide for some kind of future for life on earth, and which ones to let go. We are in a triage situation for natural ecosystems at this point, maybe amateur radio can help in some way? And, maybe Nat. Geo. can get people excited about doing something. At this point, something might be better than nothing. 73 de KC0KHA

[KW0U]

It shows that ham radio--or at least the spectrum we use--is more than just people sitting around talking to each other. It provides a public service, is interesting, and does some good science. Not sure anybody will get licensed because of it, but who knows? If "amateur radio" is mentioned in the publicity for this project it could stir up a little interest. After Mt. Saint Helens blew a number of geological teams took along hams with 2 meter capacity. This isn't quite the same, but there's no reason our technology and frequencies can't help in the wider world, and our members can be part of that.

[K1CJS]

What the heck, ham is dying. Right?

:mad:

And just who actually thinks that? Yea, I know, there've been many such claims on the internet, but darned if the CW rates aren't up, and even the licensing--if only a little.

Ham radio is far from dead or even dying--its just in a period of inactivity because of the sunspot cycle.

[N8QWS]

You do know there is a National Geographic Inc and a not for profit National Geographic Society. And whats the difference between NGS and the ARRL or BFE County ham club?????? ANSWER = "NONE"

As for non profit ham clubs go thats a whole nother story...

One of every three ham operators must be a lawyer because they hang and twist on every word.

[W9AFB]

How many of you have actually operated on those frequencies listed?

Bottom line, those frequencies are silent 99% of the year. It's about time that there is some use.

[ac0hd]

Let me begin by saying I don't want this to get out of hand because this case specifically may not be such a big deal, however, after just sitting back and reading some of the opinions (attitudes) of some, I am just a bit disappointed and starting to get a bit concerned. Seems that we have some who either don't care or are so wrapped up in themselves that they aren't aware of the goings on in the world outside their ham shack and that is somewhat frightening that a US citizen would be so presumptive of the rights and freedoms we take for granted everyday. It always starts small and unobtrusively. All waterfalls start at some point up stream with but one drop of water.

I really don't think the basic point is whether they are hurting us or QRMing us or if that portion of the band is being used much...

My thoughts are once again the government is taking/giving away to others (in this case tidbits of spectrum) from the citizens one nibble at at time. Sure, seems like no biggie and in this case probably (hopefully) is not and we should learn to share..... but stop and look at the big picture and look further down the highway than right in front of your nose....

There are those who say, "why would you care if you have nothing to hide?" or "It doesn't affect me why should I care?" or "Awww, it's just affecting someone else or it's just a little bit that we don't use anyhow..." or the such.

Remember...when they came to take my neighbor on the right their pleas fell on deaf ears and I said nothing because it didn't affect me...When they took my neighbor on the left THEIR pleas fell on deaf ears and once again I said nothing because it didn't affect me....finally when they came to take me, I realized the mistake I had made by not being more aware of what was happening outside in the world beyond my own little yard but, alas, it was too late for I was alone because there was no one left to help defend me.

The government isn't our enemy but neither is it 'of, for and by the people' any longer, either. You had better wake up and be aware of your surroundings and keep your heads on a swivel. Read the signs. Bit by bit things are being given/taken.....whether personal rights/property, privacy, or RF spectrum.

Sure, in this case it is just "loaning or borrowing" some frequencies for low power ops and may NOT be much of a deal but the concerning part for me is the opinions I have read about 'quit being so paranoid' and 'so what, it is a little used area of the spectrum anyway' and 'big deal, only part of the licensed frequencies fall in the Amateur spectrum'. Those are scary attitudes to have in today's world!

I am not condoning blowing this, specifically, out of proportion or marching on the FCC or a petition drive or anything beyond just opening our eyes and looking beyond our own personal interests and being alert and most of all changing our attitudes to at least appear that we care about what is happening behind the scenes. We had better keep our eyes open and change our attitudes or there will soon come a day when we will wish we had. If these doesn't affect me/so what attitudes are allowed to rule then we can pretty much plan to just let it happen while we sit rag-chewing in our shacks fat and happy and ignorant and soon it will be TAKEN, after all, "Amateurs don't use that portion much, anyway. Why let it go to waste? We can take it from them and give it away. Who will care? They aren't paying attention anyway. We can sneak in and take it a bit at time and they won't even notice."

Not paranoia but awareness and realism.

73 from a highly decorated veteran who has fought to keep these rights.

[ka5s]

Let me begin by saying I don't want this to get out of hand because this case specifically may not be such a big deal ...

Last year there was a similar teapot tempest here over the Indianapolis 500 being allowed to use "our" frequencies.

Cortland
KA5S

[N2ZD]

Those SOB's... A squirrel just ran thru my yard with a VX7R (silver) on its back!!!

[W1RFI]

National Geographic has apparently been given access to the following Amateur spectrum:

420-432 MHz MO 20 W (ERP)
Modes: 250KF3E, 5M75C3F

433.92 MHz MO 2 W (ERP)
Modes: 50K0F3D

902-928 MHz MO 500 mW (ERP)
Modes: 20M0F3F

This is more than a few milliwatts.

An Experimental license is not permitted to cause harmful interference to licensed users. To protect licensed users, the FCC set the following conditions:


Special Conditions:

(3) Operation is subject to prior coordination with the Society of Broadcast Engineers, Inc. (SBE); ATTN: Executive Director; 9247 North Meridian Street, Suite 305; Indianapolis, IN 46260; telephone, (866) 632-4222; FAX, (317) 846-9120; e-mail, executivedir @ sbe.org; information, www.sbe.org.

(4) Operation is subject to prior coordination with the State or Regional Frequency Coordinator of the Amateur Radio Service.

It's poorly worded, but condition #4 will require that operation on the ham bands be coordinated by the same coordinators that handle local Amateur repeaters.

Ed Hare, W1RFI

[W1RFI]

OMG. READ the ARTICLE! Carefully.

Good advice . . .

NatGeo is not using ANY exclusive amateur radio frequency period.
They're using TV frequencies. . .]

Among their allocated frequencies, they are using frequencies of 420-432 MHz, 433.92 MHz and 902-928 MHz amateur bands. These are not exclusive to Amateur Radio, but the 420 MHz band is pretty heavily used.

[quote] , and are limited to Washington, DC.

This is incorrect. In Washington, DC, they may use 480 MHz. They can also operate nationwide on a number of other frequencies, including the two Amateur Bands listed above.

They're NOT using our bloody exclusive spectrum.

Uh, yes they are. They must, however, coordinate their use of Amateur spectrum with the Amateur frequency coordinators.

Ed Hare, W1RFI

[K7ZZY]

This is incorrect. In Washington, DC, they may use 480 MHz. They can also operate nationwide on a number of other frequencies, including the two Amateur Bands listed above.

WE2XMB NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC 0162-EX-PL-2007
New experimental to operate in 54-72, 76-88, 174-216, 420-432, 433.92, 470-608, 614-806 and 902-928 MHz for
wildlife sensing and imaging.
Mobile: Within Washington, D.C.

source: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-281372A1.pdf

Ed,
Are you privy to additional information (other locations) not shown on the grant (above)?
OR
Is there a previous grant allowing nationwide operation?

[kd8exl]

guys why is everybody getting upset about natgeo using
the freqs for telemetry. hunters have been using tracking collars on hounds for years in the 146-148 band and 216-220 band so have universities for wildlife research. how do I know this because I used to raise hounds. beaglers,bear hunters,coon hunters and cat hunters use tracking collars to recover their dogs these transmitters are very low power
5mw or less and are operated by a timer circuit at about 50 -60 pulses per minute they operate on 1.5-3 volt coincells or 1/3a-aa lithium batteries. with a 10 inch antenna they only transmit 5-10 miles, farther if your receiver and df antenna are sensitive enough. this was my introduction to fox hunting. theres nothing worse than loosing a 1-5000 dollar dog in a swamp or large forest at least this way they could be recovered. what about the large sheep and cattle ranches
out west thats how they keep track of the herds they go up in a chopper with their telemetry receiver and locate the animals. has anybody been bothered by the qrm I would sure be interested to hear
kd8exl