PDA

View Full Version : ICOM IC-7000 or Yaesu 857D?



KC2TBE
04-04-2008, 11:26 PM
I own a Yaesu HT and finally learing the menus and programming. Have only heard great things about the 857D and if it is as well built as the HT it looks to be a radio that may be very dependable.

In recent conversations I have been told to go for the ICOM as it is a much better radio, but without antything to back it up. Knowing how well my Yaesu transmits, the clarity, etc.... and with keeping it between these two units only, and not factoring in the base package price, why would I want to go for the ICOM over the YAESU?

Thank you all for your input,

Tony KC2TBE - New Ham :)

K4AX
04-04-2008, 11:30 PM
I have the FT-857D, but I can tell you that it is outclassed by the IC-7000.

The 857D only has audio DSP, so... you can't really narrow your passband with it, you have to buy filters from Inrad or whoever to get any real filtering.

The 7000 has I.F. D.S.P. and you can vary the passband down to whatever bandwidth you like on anymode.

That is just one reason... I'll let someone else post the rest, but it is the main reason besides the color display it costs more and is in a different class.

K7UF
04-04-2008, 11:51 PM
You really have to decide if paying the extra money is going to buy you things that you will actually use.

The FT-857D is a competent rig, but if you want to go grubbing around in the noise and QRM for signals the IC-7000 will make your life considerably easier.

For "normal" HF use, I don't think you would find that much difference.

That said, I have an IC-7000 myself ...

AB7KT
04-05-2008, 01:38 AM
I own a Yaesu 857D.
I really like it alot.
But, the Icom 7000 is a lot more radio. The main thing is that it has a great deal of filtering. You don't have to buy filters as add ons, it comes with them. IMO filters are a huge selling point. With the 857, you can add two filters (that cost over $100 each and are not included) and it has audio DSP with three settings.
The Icom 7000 IMO is in the top tier of radios. It holds it own with the best stuff out there. It is the best radio for the money and competes with radios costing a thousand more.

W6GQ
04-05-2008, 01:40 AM
I own a Yaesu HT and finally learing the menus and programming. Have only heard great things about the 857D and if it is as well built as the HT it looks to be a radio that may be very dependable.

In recent conversations I have been told to go for the ICOM as it is a much better radio, but without antything to back it up. Knowing how well my Yaesu transmits, the clarity, etc.... and with keeping it between these two units only, and not factoring in the base package price, why would I want to go for the ICOM over the YAESU?

Thank you all for your input,

Tony KC2TBE - New Ham :)


I have the FT-857D, but I can tell you that it is outclassed by the IC-7000.

The 857D only has audio DSP, so... you can't really narrow your passband with it, you have to buy filters from Inrad or whoever to get any real filtering.

The 7000 has I.F. D.S.P. and you can vary the passband down to whatever bandwidth you like on anymode.

That is just one reason... I'll let someone else post the rest, but it is the main reason besides the color display it costs more and is in a different class.

The above reply is a good start, ask/answer this for yourself first,,,,,,,,

How are you using it? Mobile? Home?

I own the IC-7000. I was ALWAYS taking the IC-7000 out of vehicle when I went places for an extended time frame of parking because it gave to much "flash" and would be a good reason for some "crackhead" to break into the vehicle.

I have the 857D and 897D and 817ND also, I only use the 817ND mobile now because its so tiny I can take it with me wherever I go.

In the house? The IC-7000 is a good choice, mobile? not so much only because its very expensive.

IC-7000=$1300
FT-857D=$690 leaves more $$$$ for other goodies and you will be happy with it as your first rig and last rig even!

Welcome to YOUR hobby!

W6GQ
04-05-2008, 01:43 AM
By the way, I am not saying that cost is the only factor you should consider, but it sure is nice to have some extra scratch to spend on others

W6TMI
04-05-2008, 02:00 AM
Given the "money not an object" nature of the question, as others have said, the icom is "more radio", more bells/whistles.

Probably doesnt matter so much if your just going around yacking on SSB or repeaters, but pulling a weak signal and dinking with the passband, and noise reduction might help with all that.


Otherwise you might want to read up on the actual specs and features, it's nearly impossible for someone else to tell you what radio to buy, aside from "gotchas" where some are lemons and neither of those are.

KC2TBE
04-05-2008, 02:23 AM
Thank you for all the replies so far. It is not really a money is no obect question but more.... I dont like to do things twice - I am also a scooterist so I know how the "addiction thing" as my Wife puts it goes. And in the same light We own three scooters, none the same exactly as the other.... so with the New Ham Nievity in mind, I do not intend on owning a wall full of radios. LOL
My goal here is that for the most part I will use my HT mobile with a good antenna, the other rig will be for home, camping, and if presented with emergencies. I do plan on getting involved with RACES at some point also. Also knowing there is more to learn (a lot more) and not wanting to be constrained by not getting something that covers most of the bases.

I am sure it is not the first time this analyisis has riddled someone, So I am willing to spend a bit more to not have to deal with "you cant do that with the 857" response. I am really impressed with the quality of the Yaesu VX-6R from the housing to over-all performance for such a small unit, and so why I am curious to see an IC-7000 before I purchase one.

Anyone in my area want to swing by and do a show and tell for me would be appreciated - for either unit - although leaning towards the ICOM.

Also, any advice on tuners would be helpful. I really like the Yaesu form factor as the ICOM tuner seems more like it was put together like an experimenters box than a completed product unlike some of the others out there.

Tony, KC2TBE

W6GQ
04-05-2008, 03:29 AM
Thank you for all the replies so far. It is not really a money is no obect question but more.... I dont like to do things twice - I am also a scooterist so I know how the "addiction thing" as my Wife puts it goes. And in the same light We own three scooters, none the same exactly as the other.... so with the New Ham Nievity in mind, I do not intend on owning a wall full of radios. LOL
My goal here is that for the most part I will use my HT mobile with a good antenna, the other rig will be for home, camping, and if presented with emergencies. I do plan on getting involved with RACES at some point also. Also knowing there is more to learn (a lot more) and not wanting to be constrained by not getting something that covers most of the bases.

I am sure it is not the first time this analyisis has riddled someone, So I am willing to spend a bit more to not have to deal with "you cant do that with the 857" response. I am really impressed with the quality of the Yaesu VX-6R from the housing to over-all performance for such a small unit, and so why I am curious to see an IC-7000 before I purchase one.

Anyone in my area want to swing by and do a show and tell for me would be appreciated - for either unit - although leaning towards the ICOM.

Also, any advice on tuners would be helpful. I really like the Yaesu form factor as the ICOM tuner seems more like it was put together like an experimenters box than a completed product unlike some of the others out there.

Tony, KC2TBE

My experience with the ICOM AH-4 has been very good, it is actually a nice tuner that can do a bit more that what the specifications show, like 160 meter!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IcomTuner/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YaesuTuner/

KB3LAZ
04-05-2008, 03:40 AM
The icom 7000 is a great radio I absolutely love mine. I do use mine as a base and when I still ran 100w the AT-7000 tuner was amazing. Man that thing could probably tune a light bulb or a pop bottle, lol. The LDG tuner is much less than the icom and works just as well if not better. What ever you choose I hope you enjoy in.
73

N6YG
04-05-2008, 04:01 AM
Interesting replies you've received so far. Comparing these two rigs is not really fair.
As others have said the IC-7000 is really too flashy and expensive to leave in a vehicle,
and removing the rig every night is way to big a pain.
My FT-857 has been left in my vehicle 24/7 365 days a year since it was purchased new.
There's no way the IC-7000 would have lasted this long without being stolen.

Most of the advanced features are way to complicated to use mobile. If your primary use is going to be mobile then the FT857d wins hands down. Your not going to be driving down the freeway adjusting filters and trying to dig a signal out of the noise. Even if you could effectively manipulate the filter menus while driving 55. Chances are with your mobile compromise antenna the station you endangered your life to hear will never hear you. Using an IC-7000 mobile is like buying a motor home to commute to work. Sure on paper it looks great, It has an entertainment center with a TV, a bathroom with a shower and a kitchen complete with oven and stove, not to mention a nice bed. But!! Do you really need all those things to drive 3 miles to work. don't let feature bloat confuse you.

The FT-857d was designed specifically as a mobile rig and it performs this function very well. As a mobile rig The FT-857d seriously out classes the IC-7000, simply because its cheaper, easier to use and won't attract as much attention if left in the car. As far as I'm concerned the IC-7000 is a rig without a home. Other then being flashy it doesn't do anything that other rigs don't do as well. For instance fixed station use, Nice little rig. The problem for fixed station use is that its just to dam small and its almost completely menu driven. While the IC-7000 is a nice little rig it leaves a lot to be desired for portable, mobile and fixed station use.

There are much better choices for fixed station rigs. Personally I would take a used IC-756 pro2 over a new IC-7000. If 2 meter all mode was important I would probably take a new or used IC-746 pro. Even a TS-2000 would be a better rig for a fixed station.

Now lets look at it for portable use. All I can say is that nice flashy color screen once again becomes a liability as it's harder to see outdoors and it takes more power to run.

Don't misunderstand me the IC-7000 is a great little rig. Unfortunately its just to generic and does not fit any one role well. The IC-7000 is probably best suited for cramped fixed stations, backup rigs, motor home or marine use.

As you can see when comparing rigs there's a lot more to consider than specifications and feature lists. Unfortunately most new hams don't figure this out until it's to late. And to confuse matters even more for the new ham many experienced hams are more interested appearance, bragging rights and feature lists than suitability.

KJ3N
04-05-2008, 04:27 AM
You couldn't pay me to take an FT-857D. Crappy menu system, small display, only audio DSP, and it's a Yaesu for crying out loud. :p

Oh, I have two IC-7000s. One for the car, and one for at home. It holds up quite nicely next to the IC-746Pro. Has a better NB than the 746, too.

N6YG
04-05-2008, 04:43 AM
You couldn't pay me to take an FT-857D. Crappy menu system, small display, only audio DSP, and it's a Yaesu for crying out loud. :p

Oh, I have two IC-7000s. One for the car, and one for at home. It holds up quite nicely next to the IC-746Pro. Has a better NB than the 746, too.

Bragging rights ;) besides any menu system is crappy when speeding down the freeway. And for fixed station use dedicated buttons blow softbuttons and menus systems away.

KC7YPJ
04-05-2008, 05:32 AM
as allready stated, it really depends on what your going to do with it. at close to half the price and size the 857d is far easier to drag around say in one of your scooter trunks. and your half as worried about breaking it. while if dsp is nice it's not something you are going to need most of the time, my 857d has been all over gods creation stuffed in random pickups or a backpack while snowmobiling ( amazing the signals you can hear and work from 9k+ feet with a couple chunks of wire and a cheap tuner), and again if something happened to it I'm not out well over a grand. the 857d is more than competant for digital mode use as well, the honest truth is while a ic-7000 would be nice to own and I certainly wouldn't be dimm enough to refuse one beit free or paid to take it, I just can't justify dropping the extra cash for one when for less money I can get an 857d and an ft 450, the 857 is still the best bang for your buck hands down. and as allready stated earlier you don't feel bad about leaving it in the car in an environment that honestly is a waste of a perfectly good ic 7000, the bells and whistle's are useless while mobile, why pay double for features your not going to use?

ND6M
04-05-2008, 12:36 PM
i was seriously considering a 7k and did a lot of reading. there is a great 7k group on yahoo... lots of real experences.
the 7k does have a lot to offer, but, it comes at a price. as mentioned the initial cost is higher. the stock mike has issues and most after a while will have to have the solder reflowed and the contacts cleaned/replaced. the stock mike will not properly deviate the rig for certain modes (there is a popular modification by AB5N to the mike that really improves it).
also be REAL careful if you use an external tuner , some are not compatible with the 7k: Pin 1 is the KEY pin, when the 'TUNE' button is pressed, it's pulled low by the tuner to tell the radio to start transmitting. Pin 2 is the START pin to/from the microprocessor. Under normal circumstances the START pin is pulled high when a remote tuner is attached to tell the radio that the tuner is present. When you press 'TUNE' the radio pulls the pin low telling the tuner to start the matching sequence. Pin 3 and pin 4 are power and ground, respectively. Pin 3 is rated for 1 amp max . do not exceed the 1 amp max.
i also think there is a design problem in the cooling area, the rig runs too hot for my tastes. some people don't experience any excessive heat issues and others do.
if you need to send DTMF tones for control purposes, then the stock mike will have to be replaced with a different one.

this may seem like i am bashing the 7k, i really not, many people are quite happy with their 7k's, but after everything was considered, i decided not to buy one. your mileage may vary.

W0LPQ
04-05-2008, 01:40 PM
The 7000 is not a mobile friendly radio. That said, mine never ran hot, even under extended periods of semi-contesting. I have never seen the temp indicator go more than 60% of full scale. Placing ones hands over the heat sink ... yep ... warm but not hot.

Mobile while not in motion would be ok, but for changing frequencies other than presets ... the 7000 gets cumbersome.

But, IF DSP is a plus, not AF DSP as some radios have.

M3GID
04-05-2008, 02:05 PM
Thank you for all the replies so far. It is not really a money is no obect question but more.... I dont like to do things twice - I am also a scooterist so I know how the "addiction thing" as my Wife puts it goes. And in the same light We own three scooters, none the same exactly as the other.... so with the New Ham Nievity in mind, I do not intend on owning a wall full of radios. LOL
My goal here is that for the most part I will use my HT mobile with a good antenna, the other rig will be for home, camping, and if presented with emergencies. I do plan on getting involved with RACES at some point also. Also knowing there is more to learn (a lot more) and not wanting to be constrained by not getting something that covers most of the bases.

I am sure it is not the first time this analyisis has riddled someone, So I am willing to spend a bit more to not have to deal with "you cant do that with the 857" response. I am really impressed with the quality of the Yaesu VX-6R from the housing to over-all performance for such a small unit, and so why I am curious to see an IC-7000 before I purchase one.

Anyone in my area want to swing by and do a show and tell for me would be appreciated - for either unit - although leaning towards the ICOM.

Also, any advice on tuners would be helpful. I really like the Yaesu form factor as the ICOM tuner seems more like it was put together like an experimenters box than a completed product unlike some of the others out there.

Tony, KC2TBE

Hi Anthony, welcome to the hobby...

If you only intend using the rig camping and at home etc....why not look at the FT897 - same spec as the 857 but can take 2 batteries inside it to work completely independant of external power whilst out camping / hiking and it's a bit more robust than the 857. I have an FT897 and I absolutely love it for what it is, I also have the Yaesu built in 240v power supply and the Yaesu bolt-on ATU but you won't "need" these (yet!). It's true that the Icom 7000 has more bells and whistles but it also has more to go wrong on it and I understand there have been issues both with the display and with the optical encoder on the tuning dial - I can't vouch for the 7000 but I can for the 897, it's a hardy rig and will take some punishment and still run 20w on internal batteries or 100w on mains / 13.6v - plus it's does HF, VHF & UHF (as does the 7000) for a very good price, I bought mine when they were still quite new and paid over 1500 for the ensemble!

Buy whichever your gut instinct tells you to buy......you'll be the one stuck with it afterwards and as you said yourself, you only want to do it once!

Good luck whichever way you go.

73 de Geoff
M0GID;)

N4QWB
04-05-2008, 08:58 PM
I was trying to decide between these 2 radios too. Money is the main reason I'm probably going with the 857D. I just can't justify spending $1300 for a 7000. If I was going to spend that much, I'd just spend a bit more and get something like a 746 Pro or TS-2000, since my initial use will mainly be in the shack. I also have plans to do HF mobile. Eventually, I'll get the 746 or 2000 and the 857 will go in truck. But for now, the 857 will give me the 6m/2m SSB/CW that I want.

KC7YPJ
04-05-2008, 10:35 PM
for the arguments between 857 897, same radio, 897 costs more and the batteries are pricey to say the least, for camping given the extra size, expense, and limited capacity of the built in batteries your better off to aquire a small gell cell or 2 and run the 857, same space/weight between the 2 setups and you can run the 857d at 20w the same as the 897 with the advantage of substantialy more battery capacity at a lower cost...

same as the 7000 the 857 has stock mike issue's, maybe not to the same degree but still, probably the best cash you can spend if you get the 857 is the mh59aj remote mic, 2nd best would be on a ft-meter or a homebrew version of one.

for an atu I would say go with an ldg z-100 or z-11pro, better matching range at comparable to substantialy lower cost

M3GID
04-06-2008, 10:31 AM
for the arguments between 857 897, same radio, 897 costs more and the batteries are pricey to say the least, for camping given the extra size, expense, and limited capacity of the built in batteries your better off to aquire a small gell cell or 2 and run the 857, same space/weight between the 2 setups and you can run the 857d at 20w the same as the 897 with the advantage of substantialy more battery capacity at a lower cost...

same as the 7000 the 857 has stock mike issue's, maybe not to the same degree but still, probably the best cash you can spend if you get the 857 is the mh59aj remote mic, 2nd best would be on a ft-meter or a homebrew version of one.

for an atu I would say go with an ldg z-100 or z-11pro, better matching range at comparable to substantialy lower cost

HI Ryan, I don't fundamentally disagree with your view on FT857 -v- FT897 however one very important factor is that the 897 is built specifically for that purpose (camping etc) and is therefore more robust than the "fragile" FT857. It's also less fiddly and there-in more suited to shack operation. I have one and am very pleased with it, I use it portable from the car without batteries so can still run it from the picnic blanket / tent with a longer DC cable but on full power, and I also use it in the shack mainly for 2 metres all mode and like it very much. It is not in my opinion an honest to god main rig, but it is a darn good compromise for those who want a little versatility, the 857 is good for mobile only in my view, it's very fidlly and very delicate but yes, the same spec electronically as the 897.

The IC7000 in my view is a bundle of tricks fro sure, but has too many whistles and bells for a proper portable rig, fine for the car, too small for the shack and too fragile for proper camping / hiking! Not to forget of course the cost differential. Over here the 897 and 857 are very similarly priced, is that not so over there? FT857 is 495 and the FT897 is now just 579 - :D:D

73 de Geoff
M0GID

K7MH
04-06-2008, 03:50 PM
Man that thing could probably tune a light bulb or a pop bottle
A pop bottle may be a tough one but you do not need a tuner to "tune" a light bulb. Light bulbs have been used as dummy loads since forever. Just use one with a high enough wattage rating. Probably every Novice that ever lived has done that!

KC7YPJ
04-06-2008, 06:31 PM
HI Ryan, I don't fundamentally disagree with your view on FT857 -v- FT897 however one very important factor is that the 897 is built specifically for that purpose (camping etc) and is therefore more robust than the "fragile" FT857. It's also less fiddly and there-in more suited to shack operation. I have one and am very pleased with it, I use it portable from the car without batteries so can still run it from the picnic blanket / tent with a longer DC cable but on full power, and I also use it in the shack mainly for 2 metres all mode and like it very much. It is not in my opinion an honest to god main rig, but it is a darn good compromise for those who want a little versatility, the 857 is good for mobile only in my view, it's very fidlly and very delicate but yes, the same spec electronically as the 897.

The IC7000 in my view is a bundle of tricks fro sure, but has too many whistles and bells for a proper portable rig, fine for the car, too small for the shack and too fragile for proper camping / hiking! Not to forget of course the cost differential. Over here the 897 and 857 are very similarly priced, is that not so over there? FT857 is 495 and the FT897 is now just 579 - :D:D

73 de Geoff
M0GID

they are effectively the same radio, differant case/display and control pannel software, built to the same milspec standard for japans military.
not sure how your figuring an 857 is "fragile", fiddly and delicate, the thing is built like a brick.
so the 897 has a larger display and a couple more nobs for most used features, it is physically much larger, it costs on average 80-100 bucks more, throw in the battery packs and the cost differance skyrockets, I realize the 897 is a very handy radio, if space isn't an issue.
back country snowmobiling in this part of the world is a constant battle with weight even if your not a ham, the 857 takes up less space, can run off a battery in an electric start sled / 4 wheeler / dirtbike at full power or if you haven't went the performance exhaust route you can leave a batteryless machine running and power the radio.
Both are excellent radio's for the investment, it all comes down to how and where your going to use it. the 857 to me is the best choice simply because I can use it in more places and ways with less hassle , beit backpack mobile, car mobile, filed day sitting on pickinik table, or in the shack hooked up to a computer running hrd (menu system issue's are mute for this use).

K0DXC
04-06-2008, 06:33 PM
I'd go with the IC-7000.

KA8NCR
04-06-2008, 09:13 PM
I've owned both and the IC-7000 is a much much better radio. As other posts indicate, the DSP is in the IF, not audio. The noise blankers on the 7000 are a magnitude better than the 857. I can use the 7000 on HF in my Civic, where the 857 was rendered deaf by fuel pump noise. Mind you, it's noisy on the 7000, but I can work stations. No such luck with the 857.

I think the 857 has a tighter receiver on VHF and UHF. What I mean by that is that it was unaffected by intermod when I drove into big cities, where the 7000 seems to get the squelch opened up from time to time. But other than that, the 7000 is an incredible little radio.

KB3LAZ
04-07-2008, 04:40 AM
A pop bottle may be a tough one but you do not need a tuner to "tune" a light bulb. Light bulbs have been used as dummy loads since forever. Just use one with a high enough wattage rating. Probably every Novice that ever lived has done that!

Well now thats interesting, Iv believe I have heard that before.
Never seen It done though , that would be a neat experiment.

EI8DRB
04-07-2008, 07:57 AM
FT857 is 495 and the FT897 is now just 579 - :D:D

73 de Geoff
M0GID

Not sure where you've been looking Geoff... I've seen the 897 at 464 at both RW and W&S. Part of the reason that I've decided to get one... as soon as I raise the cash.

Which brings me to a salient point to consider when recommending a radio... sure, the IC7000 would be great, but not everyone wants to drop 850+ on a rig, when for 90% of purposes, the cheaper rig will do fine, and for 20% will do better (drop the ic7000 on a rock and you'll see what I mean). More expensive is not always better.

N4QWB
04-07-2008, 03:40 PM
Well, I just ordered my 857D. Got it on sale at HRO for $679.95. My bank account (and my wife) was much happier with that amount. Sure, I would rather have a 7000, but since the 857D will be perfect for what I need, I saved a lot of money.

That money will now go towards a better HF/VHF rig for the house (keeping my 718 as a 2nd receiver / backup rig). Eh, one of my clients just gave me a huge job, so I can probably buy that within a month anyway. :)

W0LPQ
04-07-2008, 04:09 PM
3LAZ if you would look at some older handbooks, you will find light bulbs used as dummy loads. Some of the early Heathkits suggested just that. Many guys ... not understanding things, worked stations using light bulbs as a dummy load..!

Been there ... done that.

N2RJ
04-07-2008, 04:25 PM
Which brings me to a salient point to consider when recommending a radio... sure, the IC7000 would be great, but not everyone wants to drop 850+ on a rig, when for 90% of purposes, the cheaper rig will do fine, and for 20% will do better (drop the ic7000 on a rock and you'll see what I mean). More expensive is not always better.

Well if you want a basic radio, sure you can skip the 7000.

But after having sampled IF-DSP, I am not so sure I can go back to any radio without it.

KC0BUF
04-07-2008, 05:24 PM
3LAZ if you would look at some older handbooks, you will find light bulbs used as dummy loads. Some of the early Heathkits suggested just that. Many guys ... not understanding things, worked stations using light bulbs as a dummy load..!

Been there ... done that.

Bad idea with a solid-state transceiver, though. Tube radios take it just fine. Transistors, not so much.

W0LPQ
04-07-2008, 05:29 PM
I did not mention solid state radios. I was replying to the post regarding lamps as dummy loads.

Note to self ... next time ... stay out of it.

A71AN
04-07-2008, 05:32 PM
I own a Yaesu HT and finally learing the menus and programming. Have only heard great things about the 857D and if it is as well built as the HT it looks to be a radio that may be very dependable.

In recent conversations I have been told to go for the ICOM as it is a much better radio, but without antything to back it up. Knowing how well my Yaesu transmits, the clarity, etc.... and with keeping it between these two units only, and not factoring in the base package price, why would I want to go for the ICOM over the YAESU?

Thank you all for your input,

Tony KC2TBE - New Ham :)

I have both radio, the IC-7000 is not my favorites for a pile up, it do heats up quickly and because of that I have noticed the output drops, the IC-857D is a good mobile radio, I am using the IC-706 in my car but I will also install the IC-857D soon.


73

N6YG
04-07-2008, 07:37 PM
Well if you want a basic radio, sure you can skip the 7000.

But after having sampled IF-DSP, I am not so sure I can go back to any radio without it.


Like I pointed out IF DSP is great but I doubt seriously anyone is going to endanger their life by trying to navigate filter and DSP menus while hurling down the interstate. Even if they where dumb enough to try this it probably wouldn't do them any good. Most mobile antennas are serious compromise antennas so while the DSP might assist in digging out weak stations chance are that station will never hear you.

Then there are those hams who will use an IC-7000 in a fixed station setup. Connecting it to a good antenna system. In this situation IF DSP might come in useful. Fortunately there are much better rigs for fixed station use. Even in portable use IF DSP is rarely needed. Most people who use their rigs portable setup in somewhat remote locations. Far from sources of noise and other hams in these situations IF-DSP or even audio DSP is not needed.

So from what I can deduce their are better cheaper choices for portable, fixed and mobile applications. Where does this leave the IC-7000? From what I have seen most IC-7000 users use this little rig as a backup or toy rig as a companion to their main rig.

Personally I really like the rig, and if I was a new ham looking for a single all purpose rig and not really sure what I was interested in or going to be using it for i would probably chose the IC-7000.

I'm not a new ham an I'm not undecided. I have very specific needs and I have analyzed the situation carefully. As far as I'm conserned I would prefer the simplicity of the 857 mobile and for fixed station use I would prefer a used IC-756 pro2 or a new Kenwood TS-2000 over an IC-7000.

R3BU
04-07-2008, 09:15 PM
Recently,I became a happy owner of IC-7000,exellent radio,powerfull DSP,even better then in my PRO3,and....I still missing my old FT-897D -easier,in one pack your may have AC power supply to take it to any place or battaries for short walking around the local sunny spring forest with 20watts out.Gonna buy it again,what an exellent handle it has for carrying! With FT-817 and it's 5 watts I will not be happy...
7000 is kind of expensive museum toy intendend for car's use as it says in manual :):) and mostly being kept home.... Here it is,how it goes in Russia

NA0AA
04-07-2008, 10:27 PM
I have the FT-897 with the bolted on AC power supply. I like it, most of my use so-far has been in the shack but I got it for camping use this summer.

I don't have an HF mobile in my car, but my experience with VHF/UHF mobile operation tells me that if you actually operate mobile, anything that requires a menu to access will be unsafe to use much of the time.

The 857 is a fine mobile operating rig given the antennas you will have access to and it's easy enough to use. Plus the money you save on the rig can pay for a fine Hi Q antenna to attach to it.

However, if I had a motor home, I'd consider the 7000 real hard for the 'at-rest' operation due to the added bells and whistles.

K0RGR
04-07-2008, 10:40 PM
I have a 7000 and I also have an FT-817. I've seen and listened to 857's.

The 7000 has a much better receiver. It's 'competition grade' in some respects, though I found that it's ability to handle front-end overload is fairly limited in multi-transmitter situations. On Field Day, I was able to operate only 50 yards from another 20 meter station with no trouble, but a 40 meter station much further away just knocked it dead.

But, I also agree with others comments - the 7000 seems to be too much radio for a mobile. But you just can't beat all the nice built-in features.

A71AN
04-08-2008, 05:33 AM
Recently,I became a happy owner of IC-7000,exellent radio,powerfull DSP,even better then in my PRO3,and....I still missing my old FT-897D -easier,in one pack your may have AC power supply to take it to any place or battaries for short walking around the local sunny spring forest with 20watts out.Gonna buy it again,what an exellent handle it has for carrying! With FT-817 and it's 5 watts I will not be happy...
7000 is kind of expensive museum toy intendend for car's use as it says in manual :):) and mostly being kept home.... Here it is,how it goes in Russia

My be it is different in Russia but here and with the sort of WX condition I have specailly during the summer period, the IC-7000 is just good for calling a dx station and exchanging a radio report with him, by all means it is not the sort of radio which you can go for hours calling cq because of internal temperature.

73 my friend

R3BU
04-08-2008, 07:57 AM
it is not the sort of radio which you can go for hours calling cq because of internal temperature.

73 my friend

The problem solved easily-100kom rezistor from 13.8 directly to "fan" and it stayes much cooler.The "micro-noise" from the constantly working fan is heard if only to swich off the radio.This is the price we pay for powerfull DSP.One Guy kept it with 100wats out in RTTY for couple of hours -nothing happend.The transmitting audio is exellent,mine is set for 40% mic gain and #3 compression,which drives it full 100% out.

A71AN
04-08-2008, 09:42 AM
The problem solved easily-100kom rezistor from 13.8 directly to "fan" and it stayes much cooler.The "micro-noise" from the constantly working fan is heard if only to swich off the radio.This is the price we pay for powerfull DSP.One Guy kept it with 100wats out in RTTY for couple of hours -nothing happend.The transmitting audio is exellent,mine is set for 40% mic gain and #3 compression,which drives it full 100% out.

Why I pay for such a radio like the IC-7000 and then modify it to over come its temeperature, what wx temperature you are talking about in Russia my friend, please tell me if it do reaches 45C or so in the summer ?

Well, I wish you all of the best with your IC-7000, for me it is only used when I have a short qso with some one out of the A7 group, I can not trust any of my IC radio, even the IC-746Pro, my personnel opinion about it is just a waste of money, never had a problem with Kenwood or Yeasu, I think they are made in a different world then icom.


Thank you my friend and 73

R3BU
04-08-2008, 02:53 PM
Why I pay for such a radio like the IC-7000 and then modify it to over come its temeperature...
100% You are right... Here we have a few high qualifyed technitions guyes,they say the higher temperature of the body'Rig the more heat it can radiate.But my IC-7000 belongs to me and I made the life of my IC-7000 a little easier.
In summer in central Russia WX is around +25+35 C
So many people-so many opinions:):):)
Remember,how long did it take to YAESU to polish FT-100 with It's problems?
A microfon's problem with IC-7000? Only now they seem to have solved it.
Here we have well known person around Russia- RZ3CC, who send to ICOM many propozitions to improove the radio-NO responce!!!

R3BU
04-08-2008, 02:55 PM
conection mistake

W4INF
04-08-2008, 04:49 PM
Im drooling over a 7K, the 857 doesn't even come close. I am not saying Icom makes a better radio, however given the choices of the two as you presented them, the 7K is a bag of chips and the Coke!

If you are a serious CW op, the programmable IF filters would be a dream!

Andrew

VO1GXG
04-08-2008, 05:58 PM
for me it comes down to how or where to get it. In my case the only new radios sold in VO1 are Icoms.

I have used the FT-857D and liked it very much so.

R3BU
04-08-2008, 07:00 PM
What I like in IC-7000 to compare it with FT-897D(857D is almost the same)
Better DSP,The feel of Deepness of the air or other words dinamic range in receiving mode(I even set IF gain in hidden menu close to minimum),otherwise it's little noisy,...big colored display,the audio freqency responce starts from 40-50HZ which makes it possible to hear Hi-Fi SSB,Transmitting audio is typical and recognizible as icom's with the quality of stationary Rigs....

W1SKA
05-02-2008, 11:09 PM
This has been a great thread for me to read, since I got pointed to the FT-817nd and after checking with the store they suggested the IC-7000.

KB3LAZ
05-03-2008, 02:18 AM
Im drooling over a 7K, the 857 doesn't even come close. I am not saying Icom makes a better radio, however given the choices of the two as you presented them, the 7K is a bag of chips and the Coke!

If you are a serious CW op, the programmable IF filters would be a dream!

Andrew

You are 100% correct.

KE6KA
05-03-2008, 03:46 AM
Hi-Fi SSB....

Hi-Fi SSB?

KB3LAZ
05-03-2008, 09:33 AM
Hi-Fi SSB?

I would assume ESSB.

KE6KA
05-03-2008, 09:52 AM
I had to look up ESSB. All I can say about it is stupid, stupid, stupid!

So there are hams spending more on audio equipment than the price of their HF tranceiver so they can take up 6Khz of bandwidth?

Meanwhile, at least half of us (probably much more) are working with 2.8Khz, or less, on our receivers, therefore it is pointless.

A71AN
05-03-2008, 11:05 AM
I have tosay this again clearly, I have both rigs, the FT-857D and the IC-7000.

The IC-7000 might look so fauncy to you but internally is not, it is like an old lady having a 10 tons of make on the face but nothing facinating other wise.


Specially the way the IC-7000 heats up without a prior notice, many might have different comments here, but only those who might be using this rig just for couple of contacts and then go qrt!

73

W7LPN
05-04-2008, 04:18 AM
I have the FT-857D, but I can tell you that it is outclassed by the IC-7000.

The 857D only has audio DSP, so... you can't really narrow your passband with it, you have to buy filters from Inrad or whoever to get any real filtering.

The 7000 has I.F. D.S.P. and you can vary the passband down to whatever bandwidth you like on anymode.

That is just one reason... I'll let someone else post the rest, but it is the main reason besides the color display it costs more and is in a different class.

the 857's extended menu allows you to narrow the noise rejection features.
Menu 049 allows you to adjust noise reduction level in the DSP, 063 adjusts Noise blanker level, 045, 046 & 047 allow the adjustment of the DSP cut-off of the High Low & band pass(CW) filters in DSP. I've never operated a 7000, but I love my 857. it is very quiet, even when things are terribly noisy. :D

W7LPN
05-04-2008, 04:27 AM
[QUOTE=n6yg;1187623]Interesting replies you've received so far. Comparing these two rigs is not really fair.
As others have said the IC-7000 is really too flashy and expensive to leave in a vehicle,
and removing the rig every night is way to big a pain.
My FT-857 has been left in my vehicle 24/7 365 days a year since it was purchased new.
There's no way the IC-7000 would have lasted this long without being stolen.
QUOTE]

I agree totally. My 857 is tucked neatly under my rear seat with a sepration kit (HomeBrew& cheap) with the face on my dash. I have had it in my truck most of the last 4 years. During club pic-nics, & after meetings, I have had several Elmers make comments about how quiet it is on HF recieve. I hear a lot of stations whom, with a noisier radio, I would have never made contact, nor would I be able to act as a mobile relay during nets. Just my oppinions :D

A71AN
05-04-2008, 09:17 AM
[QUOTE=n6yg;1187623]Interesting replies you've received so far. Comparing these two rigs is not really fair.
As others have said the IC-7000 is really too flashy and expensive to leave in a vehicle,
and removing the rig every night is way to big a pain.
My FT-857 has been left in my vehicle 24/7 365 days a year since it was purchased new.
There's no way the IC-7000 would have lasted this long without being stolen.
QUOTE]

I agree totally. My 857 is tucked neatly under my rear seat with a sepration kit (HomeBrew& cheap) with the face on my dash. I have had it in my truck most of the last 4 years. During club pic-nics, & after meetings, I have had several Elmers make comments about how quiet it is on HF recieve. I hear a lot of stations whom, with a noisier radio, I would have never made contact, nor would I be able to act as a mobile relay during nets. Just my oppinions :D

There are filters, you should add to the radio main electrical cabel the positive one, this will get rid of the noise while the car engine is running, I do not know whats the name of this filter but it is there in the market, it is a small unit which connect between the red cabel and the car battrey.


All of the best

KC2OCM
05-04-2008, 05:29 PM
Ding Ding and ICOM WINS.... I'M an ICOM myself ;)

KC7YPJ
05-04-2008, 05:56 PM
ah the joys of owning a bells and whistles status symbol that the bells and whistles (you know the supposed reason for paying far more) go largely un used.

If your into status rather than what fits and covers all the bases needed 99.9% of the time at a far more reasonable price then the icom is for you.

if you could give a rats behind about bragging rights and want the most cost effective bang for your buck that performs equally as well (in some cases better) in a real world environment at close to half the cost then the yaesu is your radio.

personally I'd rather spend my money on features used rather than a name with largely un used bells and whistle's at nearly double the price. it free's up all that extra cash for other stuff like maybe a ft-450 or ic718, maybe an atu or a power supply and pieces parts for homebrewing an interface for cat or digital use (oh wait, I wouldn't be able to brag up my brand new signal link or rigblaster /snicker).

both are nice radio's with very specific differances, the only way your going to be able to make an honest choice is throw the name out the window and compare what each has to offer for your intended use and budget.

the differance in cost between the 2 is enough to pay for an atu (mfj-993b comes to mind) a nice switching power supply (Diamond gzv4000 comes to mind), a remote control dtmf mic (mh-59, allows quick one button access to most used features, a plus when mobile), and a cw or ssb filter of your choosing with enough left over to go have a beer or 12...

2W0ZAE
05-05-2008, 03:04 PM
IMHO both the IC-7000 and FT 857D a good radios but the FD857d is a true better all round mobile rig.So save yourself some money and buy the Yaseu and spend what you saved by not buying the Icom on the most important link the antenna.

M3GID
06-16-2008, 08:00 PM
Ding Ding and ICOM WINS.... I'M an ICOM myself ;)

Semper Fi However.......Icom sucks in my view.

From a real Marine :D

KI4NGN
06-17-2008, 10:08 AM
I had to look up ESSB. All I can say about it is stupid, stupid, stupid!

So there are hams spending more on audio equipment than the price of their HF tranceiver so they can take up 6Khz of bandwidth?

Meanwhile, at least half of us (probably much more) are working with 2.8Khz, or less, on our receivers, therefore it is pointless.
Then I suggest you don't get into ESSB.

ND6M
06-17-2008, 12:00 PM
Then I suggest you don't get into ESSB.

i kinda liked the term "HI-FI SSB". it clearly describes my opinions on ESSB;);)

N2RJ
06-17-2008, 01:25 PM
Like I pointed out IF DSP is great but I doubt seriously anyone is going to endanger their life by trying to navigate filter and DSP menus while hurling down the interstate.

I own a 7000, it's in my car, and I use IF-DSP all the time.

To change filter widths it's one button push on the microphone. To add noise reduction, one button push. To adjust noise reduction, hold down NR button, turn vfo knob, press NR button when done.

Same for the adjustable noise blanker.

That's pretty simple and is on par with adjusting your car stereo.

Anything more complex has to be done while stationary anyway, regardless of what radio you use.


Even if they where dumb enough to try this it probably wouldn't do them any good.

You don't own a 7000, do you?


Most mobile antennas are serious compromise antennas so while the DSP might assist in digging out weak stations chance are that station will never hear you.

I beg to differ about them not hearing you. I've worked weak stations such as 8R1AK/M while driving and using IF-DSP. He was able to hear me as well. Made two contacts with him, both mobile and have the QSL cards to prove it.


Then there are those hams who will use an IC-7000 in a fixed station setup. Connecting it to a good antenna system. In this situation IF DSP might come in useful. Fortunately there are much better rigs for fixed station use.

Side by side with the PROIII and tested with a decent beam antenna and a vertical, I would again refer to the fact that you lack experience with the Icom 7000, and probably HF radios in general.

The 7000, while no ProIII or 7800 (or K3) is better than a lot of other radios.


Even in portable use IF DSP is rarely needed. Most people who use their rigs portable setup in somewhat remote locations. Far from sources of noise and other hams in these situations IF-DSP or even audio DSP is not needed.

So you don't operate portable in city parks? A few years ago, we had a ham radio demo in NYC on Ellis Island. NYC isn't exactly what I'd call noise free. In fact it is an extremely hostile RF environment. Then there are county hunters, rovers and the like.

DId I mention as well that the 7000 is all mode on VHF/UHF too? Yup, 2m and 70cm too. My ProIII doesn't have that. It only goes up to 6m.


I'm not a new ham an I'm not undecided.

You only got HF privileges last year. You are very much a newb on HF.


I have very specific needs and I have analyzed the situation carefully. As far as I'm conserned I would prefer the simplicity of the 857 mobile and for fixed station use I would prefer a used IC-756 pro2 or a new Kenwood TS-2000 over an IC-7000.

Good for you. I have my 7000 mobile and it works very well.

When you gain some more experience on the HF bands, you'll come back and tell me a different story.

N2RJ
06-17-2008, 01:28 PM
i kinda liked the term "HI-FI SSB". it clearly describes my opinions on ESSB;);)

Calling ESSB "Hi-Fi SSB" is like calling WinLink "broadband internet."

N2RJ
06-17-2008, 01:34 PM
I agree totally. My 857 is tucked neatly under my rear seat with a sepration kit (HomeBrew& cheap) with the face on my dash. I have had it in my truck most of the last 4 years. During club pic-nics, & after meetings, I have had several Elmers make comments about how quiet it is on HF recieve. I hear a lot of stations whom, with a noisier radio, I would have never made contact, nor would I be able to act as a mobile relay during nets. Just my oppinions :D

My 7000 is trunk mounted, with a separation kit.

This is the control head:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/353507836_abeec89a64.jpg

I can remove it by just sliding it out and unplugging the cable. I then tuck away the cable in the "not an ashtray" coin pocket.

K4AX
06-17-2008, 08:34 PM
Yes I know you can do that, I rarely have to use it though with the exception of DNR as it is just a audio level DSP and does nothing on the I.F. level. Strong signals on the edge of your passband will kill it. I did load mine with a 500hz for digital modes and a wider 2.9k filter for more pleasant listening, and plan on replacing the stock ceramic filter with a 2.3k collins as well. In the end I'll probably have 300+ dollars in filtering in it, though that money has been spent over time. Anyway, in the end, it will end up costing me about as much as a IC-7000, and it will still be a Yaesu 857D, with a whopping three filter widths to pick from.

I do have to admit though, the audio DSP does great on CW.


the 857's extended menu allows you to narrow the noise rejection features.
Menu 049 allows you to adjust noise reduction level in the DSP, 063 adjusts Noise blanker level, 045, 046 & 047 allow the adjustment of the DSP cut-off of the High Low & band pass(CW) filters in DSP. I've never operated a 7000, but I love my 857. it is very quiet, even when things are terribly noisy. :D

AK7V
06-19-2008, 02:51 AM
My 7000 is trunk mounted, with a separation kit.

This is the control head:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/353507836_abeec89a64.jpg

I can remove it by just sliding it out and unplugging the cable. I then tuck away the cable in the "not an ashtray" coin pocket.

Nice installation.

N2RJ
06-19-2008, 03:01 AM
Thanks.

I have to reinstall it now that the car is back from the shop (rear end collision on my way to Dayton)

KB3LAZ
06-19-2008, 03:58 AM
Thanks.

I have to reinstall it now that the car is back from the shop (rear end collision on my way to Dayton)

Sorry to hear you were in an accident.
I hope you or your 7000 didnt take any damage.
My grandfather was rear ended and his 706 was mounted in the trunk.
Man you should have seen the radio, it was Swiss cheese.
Then again he did get hit by a 18 wheeler.
He also got hurt badly, but hes ok now.

On another note I have read a lot of your comments on the 7000 and Id have to agree with you 100%. Its not a ProIII but its a great little radio.
BTW Im taking your advice and getting a proIII.
I used one again the other day and the more I use it, I gain an addiction.:D

73 de kb3laz

N2RJ
06-19-2008, 02:12 PM
Nah, the 7000 was OK. The rear end collision was low speed, about 20mph. I was stationary.

Third party pays, I get a new bumper and trunk lid.

The ProIII is a nice mid-range radio. Some say ten-tec is better, and I agree in some ways. But you pay more as well.

Next radio will probably be something by Flex or maybe a 7800, but I'm waiting for the bugs to be ironed out. Also, I want to invest more in antennas rather than "rig" because that gives me much more return in terms of signal improvement.

KB3LAZ
06-19-2008, 02:34 PM
Nah, the 7000 was OK. The rear end collision was low speed, about 20mph. I was stationary.

Third party pays, I get a new bumper and trunk lid.

The ProIII is a nice mid-range radio. Some say ten-tec is better, and I agree in some ways. But you pay more as well.

Next radio will probably be something by Flex or maybe a 7800, but I'm waiting for the bugs to be ironed out. Also, I want to invest more in antennas rather than "rig" because that gives me much more return in terms of signal improvement.

I was lucky enough to use a 7800 and a 7700 for a brief period at a local contest station. I much rather prefer the looks and feel of the 7700.
As for the ten tec i have yet to try the Omni VII or the Orion II, but i have tinkered around with the original Orion and the Jupiter, they are both good radios.

ad: WarrenG-1