2 Meters For Non Ham Activities

[A71AN]

Good Evening

I am not trying to blow up a bomb here and explode every one but just trying to find the reasonable answer to a matter being engaging my mind for a long time.

In the part of the world, we have a hobby called bird hunting, the hunter’s uses 4X4 cars and some time need to coordinate with each other being in different cars around the area in which they are hunting.

In the old days some people suggested these people should use CB’S but CB’ never active for such hobby.

Many have tried for 2 meter license, of course not with Ham radio call sign as these but with special calls of in numbers.

Would such activities disturb the 2 meter ham operations, although it is not been much used commercially like the old days.

Is it preferable to have channel zed 2 meter frequencies for such hunting activities, or would it be of great disturbance to the Ham activates.

I also know that many are using the 2 meter now a day illegally, wouldn’t be better to eliminate this problem by issuing official licenses under restricted regulations?

Thank you and wishing you all of the best

[ka5piu]

Hello.

In the US, like most of the rest of the free world, there are hundreds of frequencies for this type of thing.
Starting with 27 MHz CB.
There is 49 MHz,
151 to 154 MHz MURS.
450 MHz FRS/GMRS.
900 MHz part 15, that allows up to 1 watt.
2.4 GHz part 15, that also allows 1 watt.
In the Kingdom, PMR-446 is common.
So, with a host of licence-free and limited licence services, one should be able to find something.
And, if a common standard is implimented, lets say the Canadian version of GMRS, with 2 watts and no licence, the cost of equipment is low, as this is a mass market consumer item.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service
It depends on the rules in each country.
I see no danger in allowing 2 watt UHF units, or even 50 watts.
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=2866895
In Saudi Arabia, 72 MHz radios are in use, 2 watts, that work well, and are not expensive.

[kb9yku]

famly radios from wall mart should talk a mile

[N2RJ]

I don't think that amateur radio should be used as a utility radio for bird hunting, even with a license.

There are different radio services for that.

In the USA we have FRS, which requires no license and GMRS, which requires a license and has enough power to talk for a few miles.

In Qatar you probably have something different, maybe PMR446 like they use in Europe.

I definitely would not recommend ham radio for that purpose.

Those who want to use ham radio strictly for utility communications for some other hobby (whether it be bird hunting or email from a sail boat) don't belong in ham radio.

[KG6WOU]

In most parts of the USA, it's illegal to use radio communcations [of any sort] to coordinate a stalk - like beaters or game chasers. But to keep a party in touch or call for help is a legitimate use.

As such, licenced operation on two meters would be legal for that use.

[KC0BUF]

But, that's only licensed operation. Unless I'm completely out of the loop, hams have a unique allocation on 2 meters. In other words, we're not sharing... I don't think you can get a license to operate 2 meters that ISN'T a ham license.

[KB1QBW]

I don't think that amateur radio should be used as a utility radio for bird hunting, even with a license.


Why do you think that?

[N2RJ]

Why do you think that?

97.1:


The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

None of the above fits in with the use of 2 meters for bird hunting utility communications.

Also, 97.113 (a) (5)

(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
...
(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.

CB, FRS and GMRS are other radio services which could be reasonably used for bird hunting. Therefore using ham radio strictly for bird hunting is illegal.

Besides, it is simply not in the amateur spirit for the amateur bands to be used strictly for utility communications. Amateur radio is a hobby, to be used for the science and art of radio and not to be used on a regular basis for utility communications.

[KB1QBW]

97.1:


None of the above fits in with the use of 2 meters for bird hunting utility communications.

It fits just as much as any of the other rag chewing that takes place.

Also, 97.113 (a) (5)


CB, FRS and GMRS are other radio services which could be reasonably used for bird hunting. Therefore using ham radio strictly for bird hunting is illegal.

Those radio services could also reasonably be used for rag chewing. Using the 2M band for bird hunting is absolutely not illegal.

Besides, it is simply not in the amateur spirit for the amateur bands to be used strictly for utility communications. Amateur radio is a hobby, to be used for the science and art of radio and not to be used on a regular basis for utility communications.

I agree. What's "regular basis"? Hourly? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? What are "utility communications? Arranging a meeting time? Giving your location? Discussing the hunt on the way home?

If someone goes hiking and takes their radio, then talks with a friend coming in to meet him and gives directions, location, and weather conditions, is that utility communications?

[W6GQ]

Use Nextel Direct Talk
.

[KB1QBW]

Use Nextel Direct Talk
.

Yeah. Regardless whether or not you CAN do it, it certainly isn't the best resource available.

[kc7gnm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB1QBW http://forums.qrz.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?p=1177847#post1177847)
Why do you think that?

97.1:
Quote:

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
None of the above fits in with the use of 2 meters for bird hunting utility communications.

Also, 97.113 (a) (5)
Quote:
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
...
(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.
CB, FRS and GMRS are other radio services which could be reasonably used for bird hunting. Therefore using ham radio strictly for bird hunting is illegal.

Besides, it is simply not in the amateur spirit for the amateur bands to be used strictly for utility communications. Amateur radio is a hobby, to be used for the science and art of radio and not to be used on a regular basis for utility communications.Here we go with another round of what is legal and what isn't. I guess no one can use 2m for anything to talk about since you are quoting "Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services." This would make it illegal to use 2m for just about anything since cell phone service is available. I guess those families that get their license and only talk to other family members are illegal too because they could be using FRS or cell phones. Point is there is nothing you quoted that bans bird watching or hunting on the radio. It does not say anywhere that you have to talk only about ham radio on the air.

[ab0wr]

It fits just as much as any of the other rag chewing that takes place.

I'm sorry but it doesn't. Especially if this type of operation is being used to justify a "utility" amateur license that requires no testing.

Those radio services could also reasonably be used for rag chewing. Using the 2M band for bird hunting is absolutely not illegal.

But those other radio services cannot be used for the purposes defined for the Amateur Radio Service in Part 97.1 and Part 97.3. That means that only the amateur radio service frequencies can be used for purposes and intents associated with amateur radio. If that is ragchewing between two amateur radio operators then it can only be done on amateur radio frequencies, otherwise it isn't amateur radio.

I agree. What's "regular basis"? Hourly? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? What are "utility communications? Arranging a meeting time? Giving your location? Discussing the hunt on the way home?

If someone goes hiking and takes their radio, then talks with a friend coming in to meet him and gives directions, location, and weather conditions, is that utility communications?

That is NOT what the original message discussed. In the US, using radio to coordinate hunters druing the hunt is *illegal* -- no matter what service you are operating under.

If all you want to do is is give directions, location, and weather conditions then the other personal radio services can be used -- this isn't a justification for an amateur radio "utility license" with no testing required.

If all the hunters in a club, for instance, want to test and get an amateur license then --- GO FOR IT!. Since the original message mentioned that not all of the hunters could get a license then this seems to not an alternative. In that case, don't use the need for a communications medium between the hunters be a justification for asking for an amateur radio "utility license". There *are* other radio services that will fit the bill.

tim ab0wr

[ab0wr]

kc7gnm:Point is there is nothing you quoted that bans bird watching or hunting on the radio.

Bird watching, no. Hunting, yes.

Get a copy of your local state hunting regulations.

tim ab0wr

[kc7gnm]

kc7gnm:

Bird watching, no. Hunting, yes.

Get a copy of your local state hunting regulations.

tim ab0wr

Tim it could be two amateurs rag chewing while hunting. Who cares as long as they ID every 10 min and don't break any rules then it is fine. If that was the case then I guess hams talking about their colon or their moles on the air is just as illegal.

[KB1QBW]

kc7gnm:

Bird watching, no. Hunting, yes.

Get a copy of your local state hunting regulations.

tim ab0wr

Maybe where you are. Not where I live. There's nothing on either side of the fence to prevent it.

[N2RJ]

Here we go with another round of what is legal and what isn't. I guess no one can use 2m for anything to talk about since you are quoting "Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services." This would make it illegal to use 2m for just about anything since cell phone service is available. I guess those families that get their license and only talk to other family members are illegal too because they could be using FRS or cell phones. Point is there is nothing you quoted that bans bird watching or hunting on the radio. It does not say anywhere that you have to talk only about ham radio on the air.

In many countries, probably even Qatar (which the original poster is from, and which he is talking about), amateur radio communications are limited to "messages of a technical nature relating to tests and to remarks of a personal character for which, by reason of their unimportance, recourse to the public telecommunications service is not justified." FCC LINK (http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about_1&id=amateur)

Furthermore, it is an abuse of the amateur radio service just to get a license to do utility communications. IIRC, that is one of the biggest problems with WinLink unless your stance about them has somehow changed?

And again, the amateur service's purpose is defined as follows:

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

There is no provision in ANY of the above that says that the ham radio service was designed for utility communications incidental to other hobbies.

[N7RJD]

famly radios from wall mart should talk a mile

Sometimes yes and other times you can get out further rubber banding a note to one and throwing it as far as you can. :D

[ab0wr]

Tim it could be two amateurs rag chewing while hunting. Who cares as long as they ID every 10 min and don't break any rules then it is fine. If that was the case then I guess hams talking about their colon or their moles on the air is just as illegal.

ROFL!!

A *lot* of hunters carry on conversations over their radios and cell phones while bird hunting!!!

Did you get a copy of your state hunting regulations?

tim ab0wr

[ab0wr]

Maybe where you are. Not where I live. There's nothing on either side of the fence to prevent it.

From the Kansas hunting regulations:

ILLEGAL PURSUIT

No game or furbearer may be shot at, killed, or pursued from aircraft, motor car, motor boat, or other vehicle. (Exceptions include hunting with a Disability permit, hunting waterfowl from a stationary boat, and hunting coyotes.) Use of artificial light is illegal except as outlined HERE .

It is illegal to locate or give information concerning the location of game animals by radio or other mechanical means, except for coyotes, as outlined HERE .

What state are you in? I would like to check to see if your state has a similar regulation.

tim ab0wr

[k8wpj]

"...Exceptions include hunting with a Disability permit, hunting waterfowl from a stationary boat, "

How am I supposed to be able to tell a disabled duck from a able bodied one?

Do they carry little Handiquacked placards or something?

Next thing ya know... the ducks will be asking for designated parking at the boat launches...:D:rolleyes:

[W6GQ]

WOW
WE have alot of ham police in this thread!


http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/522/hamlightsbb1.gif

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7753/hampolicemh8.gif

[KB1QBW]

From the Kansas hunting regulations:



What state are you in? I would like to check to see if your state has a similar regulation.

tim ab0wr


Massachusetts. Also, as you just illustrated, it's perfectly legal in Kansas as well.

[KD7NBH]

Quote: It is illegal to locate or give information concerning the location of game animals by radio or other mechanical means, except for coyotes, as outlined HERE .

Heaven help the poor ham who asks his buddy "Any idea how to get rid of the birdie I have on xxx.xxx frequency?"

[kc7gnm]

In many countries, probably even Qatar (which the original poster is from, and which he is talking about), amateur radio communications are limited to "messages of a technical nature relating to tests and to remarks of a personal character for which, by reason of their unimportance, recourse to the public telecommunications service is not justified." FCC LINK (http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=about_1&id=amateur)

Furthermore, it is an abuse of the amateur radio service just to get a license to do utility communications. IIRC, that is one of the biggest problems with WinLink unless your stance about them has somehow changed?

And again, the amateur service's purpose is defined as follows:



There is no provision in ANY of the above that says that the ham radio service was designed for utility communications incidental to other hobbies.

Then I guess every rag chew on any ham band is illegal if they don't talk about technical stuff. Sorry you and Tim are basically saying that all we can talk about on the air is radio and nothing else. I am glad you guys don't run the enforcement division because you two would be tarred and feathered really quick if you tried to stop all talk except that of a technical nature. You two are being ridiculous in your interpretation of the rules.

My stance on winlink has been an interference issue. It has never been about what traffic they are passing. I could care less as long as they don't cause interference to other stations on the freq first.

[ab0wr]

Then I guess every rag chew on any ham band is illegal if they don't talk about technical stuff.

Wait a minute!!! Ragchewing conversations are not REMARKS OF A PERSONAL NATURE?

Sorry you and Tim are basically saying that all we can talk about on the air is radio and nothing else.

Woah!!!! That is NOT what either Mike or I have said. Mike is right. Ham radio doesn't exist for utility use. Coordinating hunts, especially for members that are not amateurs, *is* using amatuer radio for its utiility. Such a use has no redeeming characteristics such as a benefit to the public.

I am glad you guys don't run the enforcement division because you two would be tarred and feathered really quick if you tried to stop all talk except that of a technical nature. You two are being ridiculous in your interpretation of the rules.

Where did you come up with the "technical nature"? I think a reread of what Mike posted is in order.,

My stance on winlink has been an interference issue. It has never been about what traffic they are passing. I could care less as long as they don't cause interference to other stations on the freq first.

Some of us *do* care. The fact that you don't care doesn't make our opinions or feelings any less legitimate.

tim ab0wr

[LA4RT]

A7. Qatar. Persian Gulf. Don't think U.S. hunting regulations or ham radio regulations are relevant.

[w8znx]

Those who want to use ham radio strictly for utility communications for some other hobby (whether it be bird hunting or email from a sail boat) don't belong in ham radio.[/QUOTE]

sry but can not agree
ham radio has and will continue
to be used for many things other than " advancing the art "

by your standard most of what we do
is not valid Amateur Radio activity

how is e mail from a sailboat using ham radio
any different than checking in to a old style cw traffic net
to communicate with friend and family
that are not ham ops

sure i don't think its a great idea
using ham radio for hunting

but
if all the hunters have ham licenses it's quite legal

Mac

[A71AN]

Those who want to use ham radio strictly for utility communications for some other hobby (whether it be bird hunting or email from a sail boat) don't belong in ham radio.

sry but can not agree
ham radio has and will continue
to be used for many things other than " advancing the art "

by your standard most of what we do
is not valid Amateur Radio activity

how is e mail from a sailboat using ham radio
any different than checking in to a old style cw traffic net
to communicate with friend and family
that are not ham ops

sure i don't think its a great idea
using ham radio for hunting

but
if all the hunters have ham licenses it's quite legal

Mac[/QUOTE]

Does this mean my friend that the 2 meter is only so far used by Hams and no one else permitted to use it ?


Thank you my friend and 73

[W5HTW]

Those who want to use ham radio strictly for utility communications for some other hobby (whether it be bird hunting or email from a sail boat) don't belong in ham radio.

sry but can not agree
ham radio has and will continue
to be used for many things other than " advancing the art "

by your standard most of what we do
is not valid Amateur Radio activity

how is e mail from a sailboat using ham radio
any different than checking in to a old style cw traffic net
to communicate with friend and family
that are not ham ops

sure i don't think its a great idea
using ham radio for hunting

but
if all the hunters have ham licenses it's quite legal

Mac[/QUOTE]

By that reasoning, it is perfectable for the Indy 500 race to use ham radio as its means of communication from pit to drivers. Or for a town full of ham-licensed cops to use ham radio for police radio, and dispense with those pesky high cost commercial radio systems. Or for taxi drivers, provided they have a ham license, to use ham radio for their services.

We are already redefining amateur radio into a quasi-military service, under Homeland Security, and if we redefine it enough, it will BECOME such a service, leaving ham radio as a hobby to be remembered the way the dinosaurs are. Gone and nearly forgotten.

Ham radio is not a utility communications service. That is made pretty clear in Part 97 where it specifies we are prohibited, except in emergencies, from handling communications that would normally be handled by another radio service. For hunting, that other radio service is FRS or for more power GMRS. For sailboat email, that is Saillink, a commercial service. We are not a commercial service.


YET

[ab0wr]

Those who want to use ham radio strictly for utility communications for some other hobby (whether it be bird hunting or email from a sail boat) don't belong in ham radio.

sry but can not agree
ham radio has and will continue
to be used for many things other than " advancing the art "

by your standard most of what we do
is not valid Amateur Radio activity

how is e mail from a sailboat using ham radio
any different than checking in to a old style cw traffic net
to communicate with friend and family
that are not ham ops

sure i don't think its a great idea
using ham radio for hunting

but
if all the hunters have ham licenses it's quite legal

Mac

Mac,

Using amateur radio on a regular basis to access your personal email is turning amateur radio into being a common carrier. It is a big step down the road to perdition for amateur radio.

It has led to entreaties from the small community doing this for the use of encryption on the ham bands in order to keep their email private to claiming the frequencies they use as *their own private domain* and everybody else should keep off unless they want to be interfered with -- all so they can pass their email on a regular basis. In fact, it was one of the major forces behind the bandwidth regulation proposal by the ARRL.

Privacy of communication, dedicated frequencies, ever expanding resource demands -- all attributes of a common carrier.

This is not what amateur radio should be.

Using amateur radio for utility purposes is just one more step down the road to making amateur radio into a common carrier. When coupled with the request that there should be no-test or low-test licenses to facilitate this it just becomes scary as hell to those of us who saw the CB band become the cesspool it is.

tim ab0wr

[K0RGR]

What happens in Qatar on 2 meters most likely stays in Qatar on 2 meters!

It is up to the Qatar government to decide what is permitted there. I don't believe that the 146-148 Mhz. segment is primary amateur in that part of the world.

I agree, though, that as hams, we should object to the utility use of ham radio.

I wonder if Mexico still uses 146.94 as their primary police frequency in the more sparsely populated parts of the country, like Baja California? I know you'd find lots of police forces using that frequency about 20-30 years ago, because so many ham rigs were shipped with a crystal for 146.94!

[kc7gnm]

sry but can not agree
ham radio has and will continue
to be used for many things other than " advancing the art "

by your standard most of what we do
is not valid Amateur Radio activity

how is e mail from a sailboat using ham radio
any different than checking in to a old style cw traffic net
to communicate with friend and family
that are not ham ops

sure i don't think its a great idea
using ham radio for hunting

but
if all the hunters have ham licenses it's quite legal

Mac

By that reasoning, it is perfectable for the Indy 500 race to use ham radio as its means of communication from pit to drivers. Or for a town full of ham-licensed cops to use ham radio for police radio, and dispense with those pesky high cost commercial radio systems. Or for taxi drivers, provided they have a ham license, to use ham radio for their services.

We are already redefining amateur radio into a quasi-military service, under Homeland Security, and if we redefine it enough, it will BECOME such a service, leaving ham radio as a hobby to be remembered the way the dinosaurs are. Gone and nearly forgotten.

Ham radio is not a utility communications service. That is made pretty clear in Part 97 where it specifies we are prohibited, except in emergencies, from handling communications that would normally be handled by another radio service. For hunting, that other radio service is FRS or for more power GMRS. For sailboat email, that is Saillink, a commercial service. We are not a commercial service.


YETAgain you guys are not listening. Every rag chew could be considered illegal under your interpretation of the rules. Unless you are talking about ham radio or advancing the art of ham radio you cannot talk about your hemorrhoids or any other thing you might think about talking about. That is my whole point. What you are talking about is commercial use of radio in NASCAR. That is running a business and that is strictly prohibited. The FCC even allows you to order a pizza as long as you don't have a direct interest in the business so I don't see where you guys are getting all hung up about a couple of hunters using it to keep in contact or just rag chew themselves. I am willing to bet the FCC won't do anything about it because apparently they won't do anything about winlink either.

[N2RJ]

Again you guys are not listening. Every rag chew could be considered illegal under your interpretation of the rules. Unless you are talking about ham radio or advancing the art of ham radio you cannot talk about your hemorrhoids or any other thing you might think about talking about. That is my whole point.

Do you not read?

The ITU sums it up nicely: (http://www.iaru.org/rel030703att3.html)

25.2 Transmissions between amateur stations of different countries shall be limited to communications incidental to the purposes of the amateur service, as defined in No. 1.56 and to remarks of a personal character.

The term "incidental to" is wide, certainly not requiring a narrow connection with the "purposes of the amateurs service" and as the "purposes" of the amateur service set out in the definition are "self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations", the subject matter goes much beyond "tests". The new provision much more accurately reflects what in fact is the subject matter of amateur transmissions today.

The above has nothing to do with any utility communications period.

You may use amateur radio to train yourself to be a radio operator, experiment with radio, and to communicate in a casual manner with other amateurs. You may NOT use it strictly for utility communications.

[KI4ITI]

Do you not read?

The ITU sums it up nicely: (http://www.iaru.org/rel030703att3.html)

25.2 Transmissions between amateur stations of different countries shall be limited to communications incidental to the purposes of the amateur service, as defined in No. 1.56 and to remarks of a personal character.

The term "incidental to" is wide, certainly not requiring a narrow connection with the "purposes of the amateurs service" and as the "purposes" of the amateur service set out in the definition are "self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations", the subject matter goes much beyond "tests". The new provision much more accurately reflects what in fact is the subject matter of amateur transmissions today.

The above has nothing to do with any utility communications period.

You may use amateur radio to train yourself to be a radio operator, experiment with radio, and to communicate in a casual manner with other amateurs. You may NOT use it strictly for utility communications.

In both this and a previous post you've referenced parts of the rules that apply specifically to international communications. It doesn't seem like that would be as applicable to the original poster's scenario, unless he's talking about one hell of a massive bird hunt.

It seems like the phrase "strictly for utility communications" is key here. As W5HTW often says, the primary requirement to be an amateur radio operator should be an interest in amateur radio. People who get amateur licenses to facilitate any other function other than an interest in radio shouldn't be in the hobby.

BUT... if those who are interested in radio for its own sake want to use the 2m gear they have on hand to facilitate other legitimate personal activities, why not?

Josh KI4ITI

[kc7gnm]

Do you not read?

The ITU sums it up nicely: (http://www.iaru.org/rel030703att3.html)

25.2 Transmissions between amateur stations of different countries shall be limited to communications incidental to the purposes of the amateur service, as defined in No. 1.56 and to remarks of a personal character.

The term "incidental to" is wide, certainly not requiring a narrow connection with the "purposes of the amateurs service" and as the "purposes" of the amateur service set out in the definition are "self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations", the subject matter goes much beyond "tests". The new provision much more accurately reflects what in fact is the subject matter of amateur transmissions today.

The above has nothing to do with any utility communications period.

You may use amateur radio to train yourself to be a radio operator, experiment with radio, and to communicate in a casual manner with other amateurs. You may NOT use it strictly for utility communications.

That is communications between amateurs from different countries not between two US Hams ore even two Qatar hams. In Qatar they may different rules. I bolded the different countries in your quote in case you read over that particular line.

[kc7gnm]

In both this and a previous post you've referenced parts of the rules that apply specifically to international communications. It doesn't seem like that would be as applicable to the original poster's scenario, unless he's talking about one hell of a massive bird hunt.

It seems like the phrase "strictly for utility communications" is key here. As W5HTW often says, the primary requirement to be an amateur radio operator should be an interest in amateur radio. People who get amateur licenses to facilitate any other function other than an interest in radio shouldn't be in the hobby.

BUT... if those who are interested in radio for its own sake want to use the 2m gear they have on hand to facilitate other legitimate personal activities, why not?

Josh KI4ITI

Josh I totally agree with you. Ham should not get into ham radio unless they are interested in the technical aspects of it, however there is no rule saying they cannot talk aout anything they want except for running a business with it. I hear families talking all the time on the repeater here and usually the wife never talks to anyone else but the husband. Is it wrong? No. Is it illegal? No. Is it in the spirit of ham radio? No. I don't agree with family members getting a ham license just to talk to each other but there is nothing in the rules preventing it just as two hunters using 2m to talk to each other. Now coordinating a hunt I disagree with but using it to just chat with each other is not illegal in any way, shape, or form.

[KB1QBW]

Josh I totally agree with you. Ham should not get into ham radio unless they are interested in the technical aspects of it, however there is no rule saying they cannot talk aout anything they want except for running a business with it. I hear families talking all the time on the repeater here and usually the wife never talks to anyone else but the husband. Is it wrong? No. Is it illegal? No. Is it in the spirit of ham radio? No. I don't agree with family members getting a ham license just to talk to each other but there is nothing in the rules preventing it just as two hunters using 2m to talk to each other. Now coordinating a hunt I disagree with but using it to just chat with each other is not illegal in any way, shape, or form.

I think it's perfectly in the spirit of ham radio. Certainly as much as the group of guys who gather on the local repeater and chat all evening. What's the difference?

[K4GUN]

Wow... so many issues wrapped up into one topic! Fantastic.

1. It is NOT illegal to use a radio during a hunt in may parts of the country. In fact, until I saw this thread, I was unaware that it was illegal anywhere. I can't imagine not having a radio on driven game hunts. In many ways, its a safety issue. Here in VA, they are used with regularity. Everybody from fox hunters on horseback to bear hunters with dogs to a small group of guys driving wood lots make extensive use of radio communication.

2. I fail to see how private citizens, using FCC issued licenses could not be allowed to use 2 meter HTs for this purpose. If it were a commercial hunting operation or if game was being taken for the purpose of selling the meat, it would be a different matter. The communication that happens during a drive is no further out of line than anything that is heard on any 2 meter repeater in the US.

3. FRS and GMRS are not able to do the same things a ham radio can in the woods. Don't beleive me? Try it. With radios on the other services, ranges are far too short and terrain and foliage causes a lot of problems. None of this is the case with a good ham rig. With a little creativity, a local cross-band repeat can be set up with a truck on high ground to further enhance success. As long as all users have their license and properly identify, this is a great way to keep in touch with other hunters in a party.

4. I fail to see how this is in any way related to Winlink and the yachters who abuse the system. When hunting, I use simplex frequencies that are clear of other users. I properly identify myself and use good operating practices. I am limited to using it when hunting with other hams. Nothing that is said is any different than the ragchews that happen on the repeaters in terms of technical content. I guess I could do what the "nets" do and pretend that I'm really practicing for an emergency.

[M3GID]

why not have 70cms gear to talk to your buddies whilst you take a dump too?

A clear case of winding up the amateur community, and if it reall really isn't, then you must be thicker than 2 short planks of good ol' canadian redwood!

Not very original and not very amusing......

we call people like that Tango Whisky Alpha Tango's - Ithink over there you refer to them as dorks (or double dorks!)

engage your brain some time, will do you no harm!

[kc7gnm]

waI think it's perfectly in the spirit of ham radio. Certainly as much as the group of guys who gather on the local repeater and chat all evening. What's the difference?

What I was trying to say was that I think getting a license just to talk to family members is not in the spirit of amateur radio. The tests are too easy now a days anyways. Most of the wives I have heard on the radio can't even program the thing and if you ask them to go simplex they usually will say they don't know how to do that. If you don't know how to operate your radio properly then you should not be on the air.

[kc7riy]

why not have 70cms gear to talk to your buddies whilst you take a dump too?

I've done this...:p So what? My contact didn't know, and IMHO, that's a true advancement of the art.:D

When I was growing up, I met a guy who was a ham operator. He played chess over the radio. That was back in 1966. You people need to loosen your belts and let the air in your knickers a little.


Most of the wives I have heard on the radio can't even program the thing and if you ask them to go simplex they usually will say they don't know how to do that. If you don't know how to operate your radio properly then you should not be on the air.

My wife is a licensed Tech. She doesn't know how to program my V7A, that's why I did it. I've noticed there are plenty of 'real hams' who seem to have the same problem too. So what? She's not on it that much anyway. Leave her alone!

[kc7gnm]

My wife is a licensed Tech. She doesn't know how to program my V7A, that's why I did it. I've noticed there are plenty of 'real hams' who seem to have the same problem too. So what? She's not on it that much anyway. Leave her alone!

I never said it was illegal for her to talk on the radio just not in the spirit of ham radio. If all she does is talk to you on the air then why didn't you get her a cell phone or a FRS radio to do that with. Point is if all she did was learn enough about ham radio to pass the test then she is not a ham but just an appliance operator. Seems like that is happening a lot with hams today. Even saw a thread today about a ham that is a general and new that doesn't know anything about dipole antennas. This is the sad state of affairs today. No one is learning anything. They are just memorizing questions, taking the test, and buying gear they have no clue how to operate. If your wife fits that category then she is not a ham. Just someone that talks on the radio with a license.

[kr2c]

I never said it was illegal for her to talk on the radio just not in the spirit of ham radio. If all she does is talk to you on the air then why didn't you get her a cell phone or a FRS radio to do that with. Point is if all she did was learn enough about ham radio to pass the test then she is not a ham but just an appliance operator. Seems like that is happening a lot with hams today. Even saw a thread today about a ham that is a general and new that doesn't know anything about dipole antennas. This is the sad state of affairs today. No one is learning anything. They are just memorizing questions, taking the test, and buying gear they have no clue how to operate. If your wife fits that category then she is not a ham. Just someone that talks on the radio with a license.

Boy, am I glad it's not you who gets to decide who a ham his. Because the only one left would be you. And what fun would that be? :D

[KC9GUZ]

I think this guys is an old fashioned anal retentive uptight old ham. The type i tend to advise newcomers to steer well clear of..:p
My wife is a ham and yes she CAN program her own radios, tune an antenna system, but she cannot operate any of my old boat anchor rigs that require her to "dip and load" the finals. She probably could, but i just have not shown her how to do it properly.:D

[KD6NIG]

I don't mind it being used as long as all the people involved are licensed. Many of these "hunting parties" you hear on simplex just bought the radios and were never told (or don't care) that they are using ham frequencies.

People always cry "use it or lose it" but then also want to make the use limited to Ham Radio Related stuff only.

Frankly, there just isn't THAT MUCH ham radio related stuff to talk about.

[K6WLF]

I don't mind it being used as long as all the people involved are licensed. Many of these "hunting parties" you hear on simplex just bought the radios and were never told (or don't care) that they are using ham frequencies.

People always cry "use it or lose it" but then also want to make the use limited to Ham Radio Related stuff only.

Frankly, there just isn't THAT MUCH ham radio related stuff to talk about.

Here, Here, maybe we can put a fork in the topic, I think it may be done.

[A71AN]

I don't mind it being used as long as all the people involved are licensed. Many of these "hunting parties" you hear on simplex just bought the radios and were never told (or don't care) that they are using ham frequencies.

People always cry "use it or lose it" but then also want to make the use limited to Ham Radio Related stuff only.

Frankly, there just isn't THAT MUCH ham radio related stuff to talk about.

Thank you my friend, my entail idea was, would it be better to control the other parties activates on 2 meter and have them licensed and make them use this facility in proper order, or live with all of those people using the 2 meter just like a CB!

I was also trying to figure out, is the 2 meter was only for Hams ?

There are people who are not coded and they have license and call sign, do those people go through the same test like the coded ones?

If not, them why don’t we engorge those hunters to have some sort of classes and be licensed and have a good use of the 2 meters between them, not for hunting but to communicate between each other ?


These are just questions, not necessary I like other to share the 2 meter with the Hams.


Thank you again my friend and 73