Lincoln was one of the worst presidents

[KG4JYD]

I honestly don't know why the majority of the People in this country hold Lincoln in such high regard. He was one of the WORST Presidents in the history of the US:

- He misled the nation into an unnecessary war which was the worst this country has ever seen (and it was also illegal)

- He denied the States the right to secede

- He had no concern for slaves and People of color (no intention to make them equal to whites)

- He passed the first income tax in this country

- He had civilians murdered

- He unlawfully declared martial law

- He unconstitutionally suspended habeas corpus

- He seized vast amounts of property without compensation

- He imprisoned 30k+ (northern) citizens without trial

- He shut down newspapers

- He deported a Congressman who disagreed with him

- He illegally created Nevada, Kansas, and West Virginia

- He was congratulated by Karl Marx himself

[w2amr]

I honestly don't know why the majority of the People in this country hold Lincoln in such high regard. He was one of the WORST Presidents in the history of the US:

- He misled the nation into an unnecessary war which was the worst this country has ever seen (and it was also illegal)

- He denied the States the right to secede

- He had no concern for slaves and People of color (no intention to make them equal to whites)

- He passed the first income tax in this country

- He had civilians murdered

- He unlawfully declared martial law

- He unconstitutionally suspended habeas corpus

- He seized vast amounts of property without compensation

- He imprisoned 30k+ (northern) citizens without trial

- He shut down newspapers

- He deported a Congressman who disagreed with him

- He illegally created Nevada, Kansas, and West Virginia

- He was congratulated by Karl Marx himself
Say What? :confused:

[W3MIV]

Originally Posted by KG4JYD http://forums.qrz.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?p=1173838#post1173838)
I honestly don't know why the majority of the People in this country hold Lincoln in such high regard. He was one of the WORST Presidents in the history of the US:

- He misled the nation into an unnecessary war which was the worst this country has ever seen (and it was also illegal)

Poor Matt "fails to realize" that it was South Carolina that began the Civil War.

- He denied the States the right to secedeThe US Constitution denied those states a right to secede. There is no, and never was any, right of secession in the Constitution.

- He had no concern for slaves and People of color (no intention to make them equal to whites)He was murdered by a Southern fanatic before he could do anything to make the extra-Constitutional declaration that we now revere as the Emancipation Proclamation into a formal amendment. The Congress did that, however, with the Thirteenth Amendment.

- He passed the first income tax in this country

- He had civilians murdered

- He unlawfully declared martial lawAll of which are silly misrepresentations.

- He unconstitutionally suspended habeas corpusNot only did he suspend habeas corpus, but he ordered the military to ignore any and all writs, and further to ignore the US Supreme Court. He was a powerful and determined war president. We should now celebrate that strength and honor his memory for preserving the union.

- He seized vast amounts of property without compensationAll of it contraband.

- He imprisoned 30k+ (northern) citizens without trialThat figure is a gross exaggeration. There is no support for it beyond the internet blogs of misguided conspiracy whackoes.

- He shut down newspapersLincoln never once suppressed a newspaper, although his military did on a few occasions.

- He deported a Congressman who disagreed with himVallandigham was lucky not to be hanged. Study the case.

- He illegally created Nevada, Kansas, and West VirginiaNot true. All were legally admitted, including West Virginia, which is the only recorded "legal" secession in our history.

- He was congratulated by Karl Marx himselfObviously, this is a big reason to deprecate a man who was probably our greatest president.

[n2nh]

Tour de Force Alberto! Bravissimo!

http://i31.tinypic.com/a1juat.jpg

[KG4JYD]

Poor Matt "fails to realize" that it was South Carolina that began the Civil War.
Actually Lincoln fought the war without having Congress declare it. That is unconstitutional.
The US Constitution denied those states a right to secede. There is no, and never was any, right of secession in the Constitution.You fail to understand your history. The Constitution doesn't grant rights to People or to States. The right to secession is inherent because the States created the Constitution and the federal government.
All of which are silly misrepresentations.What did I say that was false? Please correct me. He had civilians murdered, he passed the first income tax, and he unlawfully declared martial law.
Not only did he suspend habeas corpus, but he ordered the military to ignore any and all writs, and further to ignore the US Supreme Court. Yes, and only Congress can suspend habeas corpus. Lincoln broke the law many times and trampled the Constitution.

He was a powerful and determined war president. We should now celebrate that strength and honor his memory for preserving the union.He was one of the closest people we've ever had to an unlawful dictator. I am not celebrating, I jsut with Booth had taken him out before he ever took office.
All of it contraband.How does someone who owns their land have it be considered "contraband"?!?!


That figure is a gross exaggeration. There is no support for it beyond the internet blogs of misguided conspiracy whackoes.This is widely accepted by historians.Lincoln never once suppressed a newspaper, although his military did on a few occasions. Since he is the CiC then that makes him responsible.
Not true. All were legally admitted, including West Virginia, which is the only recorded "legal" secession in our history.Incorrect. None of those three States followed the Constitution for admission into the Union. Therefore they were illegally created.


Obviously, this is a big reason to deprecate a man who was probably our greatest president.No, the reasons I have listed above stand on their own, but the fact that Marx wrote him a letter of congratulations ought to provide some insight into Lincoln's policies.

[AE6IP]

Albert, it was a valiant effort, but Matt lives in a fantasy world in which Jefferson never made the Louisiana purchase, "The Founders" wrote down a document that they all agreed to the exact meaning of, and law makers enter into contracts by writing laws.

You are trying to teach algebra to a boy who "knows" that one plus one is seven.

[K9STH]

JYD:

Against whom would Congress have declared war? The Confederate States of America was not reconginzed by any country (including the United Kingdom and France) as a separate entity and therefore there was no government on which to declare war! The American Civil War, The War Between the States, or whatever you wish to call it, was just that, a civil war. By its very definition a civil war is a war within a particular country and therefore neither side can declare war.


Lincoln did NOT impose an income tax. Taxes are imposed by Congress and not the President! Congress passed the income tax law.


He did NOT have civilans murdered. Yes, there were civilan lives lost on both sides. However, Lincoln was not responsible for any of these. Do you happen to be familar with the Gainesville, Texas, hangings? Or those in McKinney, Texas? Here is just one reference to the happenings in Gainesville:

http://civilwarlibrarian.blogspot.com/2007/10/other-voices-memory-of-gainesville.html

There were considerably more civilans murdered in McKinney, Texas, who were Unionists. However, those have never gained the fame of the 14 who were hanged in Gainesville.

Of course Southernists like Quantrill, "Bloody Bill" Anderson, and others murdered hundreds of people in the "name of the Confederacy".


Kansas became a state on 29 January 1861. Lincoln became President on 4 March 1861. This was over 2 months before Lincoln and therefore was under the Presidency of James Buchanan.

Nevada became a separate territory (separated from Utah) on 2 March 1861. Again, this was before Lincoln became President and was done by an Act of Congress. It did become a state on 31 October 1864.

West Virginia was formed in the area of Virginia that was more loyal to the Union than to the Confederacy. One of the concessions that had to be made by the government of West Virginia was to gradually eliminate slavery.


James Buchanan had declared that states could not seceed (and this was also the ruling of the majority in Congress) and 7 of the 11 states that eventually formed the Confederate States of America seceeded from the Union before Lincoln became President. They were

South Carolina on 20 December 1860
Mississippi on 9 January 1861
Florida on 10 January 1861
Alabama on 11 January 1861
Georgia on 19 January 1861
Louisiana on 26 January 1861
Texas on 1 February 1861


Lincoln seized no property! Various military commanders both siezed and destroyed property that was owned by the Confederate States of America as well as property and items that were being utilized by forces in rebellion against the United States of America. There was nothing illegal about this. Such happenings are "the fortune of war".


Lincoln was assasinated before he could try to implement his plans for the South. Remember that Andrew Johnson was impeached (but not convicted) for attempting to implement these plans against the wishes of Congress (the wishes of Congress were to punish the South as much a possible).


Remember that the American Civil War was started by forces under the command of the State of South Carolina that fired on Fort Sumter in Charleston harbor and not by any of the forces of the United States of America.

Glen, K9STH

[kg6amw]

Wow, I guess he's found one wall. Now run the other direction until you hit the other wall. The center is in between.

[KG4JYD]

Against whom would Congress have declared war?


No one. The War Against Southern Independence was unconstitutional.


The Confederate States of America was not reconginzed by any country (including the United Kingdom and France) as a separate entity and therefore there was no government on which to declare war! Yes, that question is interesting. It wasn't a war between the States because really there were two separate land areas with capitols and armies fight against each other.


The American Civil War, The War Between the States, or whatever you wish to call it, was just that, a civil war. By its very definition a civil war is a war within a particular country and therefore neither side can declare war.Incorrect. A civil war is where two factions of the same country attempt to control the entire country. Montgomery never wanted to control NY for example, so the definition of "civil war" is not applicable.

Again, the most accurate term is "The War For [or Against] Southern Independence"


Lincoln did NOT impose an income tax. Taxes are imposed by Congress and not the President! Congress passed the income tax law.And Lincoln signed it.


He did NOT have civilans murdered. Yes, there were civilan lives lost on both sides. However, Lincoln was not responsible for any of these. Being the CiC means he is responsible for what his troops do.



Kansas became a state on 29 January 1861. Lincoln became President on 4 March 1861. This was over 2 months before Lincoln and therefore was under the Presidency of James Buchanan.Sorry, you were correct about Kansas. I misremembered and misread.



West Virginia was formed in the area of Virginia that was more loyal to the Union than to the Confederacy. One of the concessions that had to be made by the government of West Virginia was to gradually eliminate slavery.And that is unconstitutional. The federal government can't just "create a State".


James Buchanan had declared that states could not seceed (and this was also the ruling of the majority in Congress) And they were wrong.


Lincoln seized no property! Various military commanders both siezed and destroyed property that was owned by the Confederate States of America as well as property and items that were being utilized by forces in rebellion against the United States of America. There was nothing illegal about this. Such happenings are "the fortune of war".Lincoln was the CiC of the military. Everything that they did he was responsible for. And property can't just be "seized" without compensation and/or due process.

[W3MIV]

Laurence Tribe could sit down and try to teach our Matt about the US Constitution, and Matt would tell him, "what you fail to realize is that I already know all there is to know. I read it on a Lew Rockwell internet blog."

The only question is would Tribe leave in tears? Or in gales of laughter.

I leave each of you to choose your own coda.

[KG4JYD]

Laurence Tribe could sit down and try to teach our Matt about the US ConstitutionInstead of criticizing me, why don't you respond to my points? :rolleyes:

[W3MIV]

Instead of criticizing me, why don't you respond to my points? :rolleyes:

All of them have been addressed myriad times before, Mattie, both in this thread and in several previous ones on the same fundamental topics. You merely ignore any posts other than those of your heroes on various internet conspiracy blogs where these outworn notions continue to get fresh play with every new generation of impressionable youths discovering the adolescent thrills of not-so-new anti-government theories.

None are so blind as they who will not see.

[N3ATS]

What you fail to realize Albert is that you fail to realize he fails to understand.

[KB9YCO]

Haven't we had this conversation, with the same person, about the same president, at least a couple of times before? What, do you think that if you keep repeating it it's going to convince people that Lincoln was some horrible tyrant?

[kc2orw]

What you fail to realize Albert is that you fail to realize he fails to understand.
Hows it going Sheets :D

[AE6IP]

Instead of criticizing me, why don't you respond to my points?

Albert did a good, accurate job of responding to your "points", as did Glen. You refuse to learn. Instead, you post more nonsense like The federal government can't just "create a State", even though Article IV Section 3 gives precisely that power to the government.

You keep yelling "one plus one is seven" at us and people keep patiently trying to teach you arithmetic, but you fail to learn.

[KU0DM]

He illegally created Nevada, Kansas, and West Virginia

Ya know Matt, if you are really that jealous of Kansas, and really want to live in this wonderful state so bad, come on in! Kansas is like a big, non-exclusive club!
We aren't usually picky about who we let in, we just try and keep the riff-raff out.

Really, all you have to do is ask.

I am sure Nevada and West Virginia are the same way.

;)

[K9STH]

JYD:

By "Montgomery" I must "assume" that you mean the "Montgomery convention" wherein the Confederate States of America was created. Also, Montgomery, Alabama, was the capital of the Confederacy until July 1862 when it was moved to Richmond, Virginia. Unfortunately, one of the principles on which the formation of the Confederacy was based was the assumption that both Great Britain and France would immediately come to the aid of the South thus negating any need for a substantial army or navy. This was due to the belief that both Great Britain and France would need to protect their source of cotton. Unfortunately, there had been a "bumper crop" of cotton during the years immediately preceeding the Civil War and both countries had acquired at least a two-years' supply of cotton before needing any possible resupply. Also, the British colonies in India and Egypt had started supplying substantial quantities of cotton and there was a desire in Europe to utilize those sources instead of relying from sources in the Americas. Therefore, neither Great Britain or France had any real desire to get directly involved in the American Civil War.

Also, with Lincoln's issuance of the Emancipation Proclaimation (also spelled Proclamation) effective 1 January 1863 both Great Britain and France were precluded from any formal recognition of the Confederacy. This was due to very vocal anti-slavery factions in both countries which would not allow any alliance with a government that favored slavery. Therefore, those countries could not provide any actual military forces to defend the Confederate States of America. Now various industries (especially in Great Britain) did furnish arms and ammunition to both sides (especially the Enfield rifle and accuturments).


Now your statement that Lincoln was responsible for the actions of troops in the field would also apply to Jefferson Davis. Therefore, under your definition Davis was responsible for the actions of Quantrill and "Bloody Bill" Anderson in Kansas, Nebraska, and Missouri; for the actions of Morgan in his raids in Indiana and Ohio (where he demanded payment not to destroy private property and did destroy such property when the "ransom" was not sufficient to meet his demands); for the actions of troops under the command of Robert E. Lee (especially during his campaign which resulted in his defeat at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania); and for the actions of every other commander and even troops which resulted in the destruction of property and the loss of any civilan lives.


Lincoln did sign the Income Tax Bill. However, had he not have signed there was definitely sufficient votes in Congress to override any veto. Therefore, your point is "moot". Also, the Confederacy imposed various taxes on those living in the South and therefore, with your charge that Lincoln was responsible for taxes in the North then Davis was responsible for taxes in the South. Also, the Confederacy passed conscription acts (military "draft") long before they were enacted in the North. As such, southerners were required to serve unvoluntarily in the Confederate Army long before anyone in the North. Also, slave-holders were exempted from being conscripted and therefore "draftees" were from those who did not own slaves.


The North did NOT start the war! Although Friday 12 April 1861 is generally accepted as the start of the Civil War there had been previous acts of agression. On Wednesday 20 March 1861 the Federal sloop Isabella was siezed at Mobile, Alabama, before it could sail to resupply Fort Pickens located just outside Pensacola, Florida. Then on Wednesday 3 April 1861 a Confederate battery located on Morris Island (located in Charleston harbor) fired at the Federal schooner Rhoda H. Shannon. Just after midnight on Friday 12 April 1861 Roger Pryor (representing the State of South Carolina) contacted Major Robert Anderson at Fort Sumter about surrendering the fortifications. Anderson told Pryor that if he had not received orders not to surrender that he would evacuate the fort on Monday 15 April 1861. However, this was not to the satisfaction of Pryor who informed Anderson that the fort would be fired upon within 1 hour (this being about 3:30 AM).

At 4:30 AM Pryor was offered the "honor" of firing the first shot. However, he declined. The lanyard on the first cannon to bombard Fort Sumter was pulled by Edmund Ruffin. However, there are conflicting reports that the first shot was actually fired just before 4:30 AM by an artillery battery manned by cadets from The Citadel.

Therefore, the American Civil War was started by the Confederacy and NOT by the Union. As such, the term "War of Southern Agression" would come closer to the actual situation.


Now I do not "claim" to be the utmost authority on the American Civil War. However, I have been a "student" of that war for most of my life. I do posess a library approaching 100 volumes and have hundreds of other documents regarding the Civil War. Although the majority of my ancestoral relatives fought for the Union I do have a few on my paternal grandmother's side that fought for the Confederacy. All of my wife's relatives who fought in the Civil War fought for the Confederate States of America.

I know of several people that are still fighting the Civil War even though it has been over for almost 143 years. Also, when I first went off to college at the Georgia Institute of Technology (known world-wide as "Georgia Tech") there were a few students from rural Alabama and Mississippi who had been taught in public schools that the South had won the Civil War! They were astounded to learn that such was not the case.

Glen, K9STH

[n4sva]

Glen,

I hereby rescind your SCV membership :D

[K9STH]

SVA:

Although I am not a member of the SCV I am eligible to join through my great-great-great uncle Captain George Washington Stump, commander Company B 18th Virginia Cavalry!

However, I am a past commander, Department of the Southwest, Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War and have held appointments at the national level of the SUVCW.

:D

Glen, K9STH

[n2nh]

Incorrect. A civil war is where two factions of the same country attempt to control the entire country. Montgomery never wanted to control NY for example, so the definition of "civil war" is not applicable.

WRONG!

In 1864 New York was the nation's largest city and a world unto itself. When the Southern states seceded from the Union in 1861, some even called for New York City to follow suit and set itself up as a city-state, though it soon elected to stick with the North.

That evening (November 25, 1864,) Confederate agents planned to set New York City aflame. The plot had been concocted a few months earlier by Robert Martin, a former colonel under Confederate cavalry commander John Hunt Morgan (see "The Great Escape," February 2000). In 1864 Martin traveled to Canada to take part in the Confederate espionage operations being planned there. Like most acts of terrorism, the Confederacy hatched the New York operation as an act of retribution, a way to seek revenge for the Union's ravaging of Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, the breadbasket of the Confederacy. The plot was a simple one. Colonel Martin and seven other agents, dressed as civilians, would cross the Canadian border to aid in an uprising by Copperheads-Northerners who sympathized with the South-on Election Day, November 8. At a predetermined time, the agents would set fire to several of the hotels along Broadway, and the Copperheads would begin an uprising similar to the Draft Riots. Once they had captured General Dix and placed him in irons, they would raise the Confederate flag over the city and declare it an independent entity.

American History: 1864 Attack on New York
Manhattan proved an irresistible target for Confederate saboteurs who wanted to set the city ablaze and settle some scores with the Union. (http://www.historynet.com/magazines/american_history/3027276.html)

[KG4JYD]

WRONG!





American History: 1864 Attack on New York
Manhattan proved an irresistible target for Confederate saboteurs who wanted to set the city ablaze and settle some scores with the Union. (http://www.historynet.com/magazines/american_history/3027276.html)

Again that doesn't qualify as a civil war. The South didn't want to control anywhere in the North, they wanted to be left alone. The story in which you posted was a strategy to help get support, not a demonstration of the goal of the South.

[KD0BQM]

JD;

Instead of continually assaulting the deceased equine, why not tell us whom you believe to be the BEST president in history?

I am equally certain you will find you have an almost equal number of supporters as detractors and certainly more interesting results to your troll.

[AE6IP]

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out to Matt that the legal definition of civil war starts out

Civil war exists when two or more opposing parties within a country resort to arms to settle a conflict or when a substantial portion of the population takes up arms against the legitimate government of a country.

There is no requirement of one side wishing to dominate the other's territory.

There have been many civil wars throughout history. There are many going on now.

General Lee's war was, indeed, a civil war, by any reasonable definition of the term.

Checking...

one plus one...

still not seven.

[KU0DM]

why not tell us whom you believe to be the BEST president in history?.

He's going to say Ron Paul. Trust me. :p

[AE6IP]

He's going to say Ron Paul. Trust me. :p

Nah. He'll opt for Jefferson Davis.

:p

[n2nh]

The South didn't want to control anywhere in the North...

...they would raise the Confederate flag over the city and declare it an independent entity.

Reality bites. :cool:

[KD0BQM]

He's going to say Ron Paul. Trust me.
Nah. He'll opt for Jefferson Davis.

I would have thought more along the lines of Ronald Reagan or Richard Nixon. (Ronald Reagan - the "Union Buster")
Richard Nixon - (the "Law and Order President")

[n0ov]

Lincoln sure new how to stir up trouble

In an effort to keep more southern troops in the south, he stated "slaves in the states that are trying to secede from the Union are now and forever more free"

This caused troops that could have been used to fight the north to stay in the south, trying to catch the slaves now trying to get north.

Why was this a tactic and not an act of human rights? Do some research, slavery for a few states that did not secede was allowed for another 20 years after the civil war ended -- Delaware was one of them.

Now here's the funny part -- it took me living in Georgia taking a history class from a transplanted Yankee to learn that tidbit. Amazing. History is full of little tidbits like this.

Anyone care to do some research on how the Democratic party got started? (May not like what you find)

[n2ize]

Again that doesn't qualify as a civil war. The South didn't want to control anywhere in the North, they wanted to be left alone. The story in which you posted was a strategy to help get support, not a demonstration of the goal of the South.

ZZzzzzz. ZZzzzz. :(

[KC9IUX]

Anyone care to do some research on how the Democratic party got started? (May not like what you find)


Post on.:D

[wa8rti]

JYD needs to find a time machine and return to the days of John C. Calhoun in the pre Civil War south. He would be much more happy living then than having to fight with the reality of the events as they happened during and after the war. On the other hand some good meds might help relieve his distress if the time machine is unavailable.And I didn't notice if anyone else pointed out that Kansas entered the union January 29, 1861which was before Lincoln took office.:p

[K9STH]

RTI:

I pointed out that Kansas became a state under the Buchanan administration much earlier in this thread. Also, that Nevada became a territory (eventually becoming a state) under the Buchanan administration as well.

JYD has also has not replied to my pointing out that the South actually started the Civil War by firing on Federal ships and then Fort Sumter.

Glen, K9STH

[KB9YCO]

Anyone care to do some research on how the Democratic party got started? (May not like what you find)

You don't honestly think that either party in this country are anything like they were when they started do you? If so then you need do some more studying and reading because their origins are pretty much irrelevant to what their philosophies and agendas are now, or even in the last forty years.

But hey, if you guys want to keep fighting the American Civil War and make all these divisions between north and south then go nuts, but you're about a century and a half too late.

[KB9YCO]

RTI:

I pointed out that Kansas became a state under the Buchanan administration much earlier in this thread. Also, that Nevada became a territory (eventually becoming a state) under the Buchanan administration as well.

JYD has also has not replied to my pointing out that the South actually started the Civil War by firing on Federal ships and then Fort Sumter.

Glen, K9STH

I wouldn't waste your time Glen, everything you posted was accurate and logical and would therefore not fit in with the agenda at play here. I always find what you write interesting though since I am also a Civil War nerd with lots of books. Like I said earlier in this thread, I think we've had this same conversation with this same person about pretty much the same thing and with the same responses and the same outcome.

[AE6IP]

Anyone care to do some research on how the Democratic party got started? (May not like what you find)

Madison and Jefferson sat down over beers. . .

Madison and Jefferson tried to call it the "Republican" party, but Hamilton's mud-slingers labeled it the "Democratic" party and it became known as the "Democratic-Republican" party. Eventually settled on "The Democracy" which became "The Democratic Party."

Never did enjoy the rubber chicken on Jefferson-Jackson day.

[AE6IP]

You don't honestly think that either party in this country are anything like they were when they started do you? If so then you need do some more studying and reading because their origins are pretty much irrelevant to what their philosophies and agendas are now, or even in the last forty years.

Indeed.

Neither Jefferson nor Madison would recognize either of the children of Madison and Jefferson's "Democratic-Republican" party as what they had founded.

[ac4ut]

618,000 + died.

[N9MOQ]

Indeed.

Neither Jefferson nor Madison would recognize either of the children of Madison and Jefferson's "Democratic-Republican" party as what they had founded.

One thing is interesting, the Democrat-Republican party started out as one and the same party, and today, many once again consider the Democrat and Republican as one and the same party.

Instead of two candidates of the same party on the ballot, perhaps we should allow a Federalist party candidate again.

George Washington was a Federalist.

[kd5upl]

It appears that "Double-Speak" is alive and well. Now if you don't like history, just re-write it. Then it will become truth...well, on paper anyway.:rolleyes:

[N9XR]

I wouldn't waste your time Glen, everything you posted was accurate and logical and would therefore not fit in with the agenda at play here. I always find what you write interesting though since I am also a Civil War nerd with lots of books. Like I said earlier in this thread, I think we've had this same conversation with this same person about pretty much the same thing and with the same responses and the same outcome.

The fact is that Lincoln was the only US president to have been born in Illinois in the log cabin that he had built with his own hands. That was very impressive to me.


Whaaat? No one believes me? Waaaah.

[kd5upl]

Democratic is a method. Democrat is a party. Just another play on words, a suttle distortion.

[ac4ut]

The fact is that Lincoln was the only US president to have been born in Illinois in the log cabin that he had built with his own hands. That was very impressive to me.


Whaaat? No one believes me? Waaaah.



He had to watch TV by nothing more than the light from the firepalce.
That's the way I remember it.

[N9XR]

He had to watch TV by nothing more than the light from the firepalce.
That's the way I remember it.

That's right. Also he never flew on Air Force One with his VP Johnson on board although Johnson was sworn into office on board the jetliner. Also he never liked Linkin Park music nor did he ever attend one of their concerts.

He liked a happy KV1M (a merry Todd) and did not support Todd's bannanation.

His dog "Fido" was stabbed to death in Springfield, IL.

He started income tax just to miff off the Libertarians.

[KV1M]

That's right. Also he never flew on Air Force One with his VP Johnson on board although Johnson was sworn into office on board the jetliner. Also he never liked Linkin Park music nor did he ever attend one of their concerts.

He liked a happy KV1M (a merry Todd) and did not support Todd's bannanation.

His dog "Fido" was stabbed to death in Springfield, IL.

He started income tax just to miff off the Libertarians.

Yes, I remember those days fondly!

We used to sip lemonade made from the frowns of the Whigs downtown on the porch of his doublewide and talk endlessly about who had the better behind, Elizabeth Taylor or Jenna Elfman. He liked Jenna.

Ahh, those were the days!

But that was a long time ago, before the Trial of Bannanation was forced upon me.
Both he and I have been fairly unhappy since.

It may be a very long time until I see him again, I'll send your love.

[K9STH]

XR:

And I always believed that Lincoln was born in Kentucky and that his mother is buried in Indiana! Also, that he killed a "bar" when he was only 3 (whoops, that was Davy Crockett).

:D

And my 5th great grandfather was one of those who financed Daniel Boone's expeditions into Kentucky and Tennessee. Actually, that is true! During the 1790s such transactions were recorded by the Virginia legislature (why, I have no idea) and those records are available today.

Glen, K9STH

[N9XR]

Yes, I remember those days fondly!...

He liked Jenna....

Ahh, those were the days!...

It may be a very long time until I see him again, I'll send your love.

I knew he liked Jenna better. She has spoken of the Lincoln Log.

Well Todd. Maybe some day you will be un-bannanated and you will be allowed to return to the US.

[KV1M]

XR:

And my 5th great grandfather was one of those who financed Daniel Boone's expeditions into Kentucky and Tennessee. Actually, that is true! During the 1790s such transactions were recorded by the Virginia legislature (why, I have no idea) and those records are available today.

Glen, K9STH

That's really cool!

What a great bit of family trivia!

[KU0DM]

And my 5th great grandfather was one of those who financed Daniel Boone's expeditions into Kentucky and Tennessee. Actually, that is true! During the 1790s such transactions were recorded by the Virginia legislature (why, I have no idea) and those records are available today.

Glen, you need to publish a book.

Zooks throughout the Ages

Howaboutit?

[N9XR]

XR:

And I always believed that Lincoln was born in Kentucky and that his mother is buried in Indiana! Also, that he killed a "bar" when he was only 3 (whoops, that was Davy Crockett).

:D

And my 5th great grandfather was one of those who financed Daniel Boone's expeditions into Kentucky and Tennessee. Actually, that is true! During the 1790s such transactions were recorded by the Virginia legislature (why, I have no idea) and those records are available today.

Glen, K9STH

That Israeli cool there Glen. All my ancestors did was shoot copperheads.

Lincoln was born in Illinois and Reagan was born in Kentucky. We traded presidents some time back. When you ask? I can't recall.

[AE6IP]

Democratic is a method. Democrat is a party. Just another play on words, a suttle distortion.

The party founded by Jackson et al out of the Jeffersonian wing of the Republican party refers it itself as the "Democratic party", and has done so since it's founding.

"Democrat party" is an attempted slur against that party by those whose political expertise does not rise above name calling.

[KV1M]

The party founded by Jackson et al out of the Jeffersonian wing of the Republican party refers it itself as the "Democratic party", and has done so since it's founding.

"Democrat party" is an attempted slur against that party by those whose political expertise does not rise above name calling.

IP's right, it's a play on Democ-RAT.

Not a very good one either.

[W3MIV]

IP's right, it's a play on Democ-RAT.

Not a very good one either.

Not true. When I use that term, I use "Democrat Party" to refer to the party member, i.e. a Democrat, and not as a slur. When I wish to defame, I usually use "Dumbokrat" or "Demokrat" so that my intentional slur is neither missed nor misunderstood.

[N9XR]

Not true. When I use that term, I use "Democrat Party" to refer to the party member, i.e. a Democrat, and not as a slur. When I wish to defame, I usually use "Dumbokrat" or "Demokrat" so that my intentional slur is neither missed nor misunderstood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(phrase)

The number of people on here who simply believe that things should be the way they think they are only because of their own beliefs is unbelievable. They are just living in their own little world and be van Dammed with reality.

[KV1M]

Not true. When I use that term, I use "Democrat Party" to refer to the party member, i.e. a Democrat, and not as a slur. When I wish to defame, I usually use "Dumbokrat" or "Demokrat" so that my intentional slur is neither missed nor misunderstood.

That is wrong.

You properly call an individual a Democrat, the Party is the Democratic Party.

That doesn't mean that YOU don't use the improper form, you being a Repuglicon I understand the tendency. ;)

[W3MIV]

That is wrong.

You properly call an individual a Democrat, the Party is the Democratic Party.

That doesn't mean that YOU don't use the improper form, you being a Repuglicon I understand the tendency. ;)

I guess being wrong for you is getting to be a habit. I am a registered Democrat, and I have voted in every election since 1964.

[N9XR]

I guess being wrong for you is getting to be a habit. I am a registered Democrat, and I have voted in every election since 1964.

You're correct. It would be wrong for Todd to wear a habit.

[KV1M]

I guess being wrong for you is getting to be a habit. I am a registered Democrat, and I have voted in every election since 1964.

Getting to be a habit? Really? Since when?

I had thought you were the one with that habit, it precedes you you know.

Some Democrat, hurling epithets at the party like some common Rethug. And without even realizing it to boot!
You had me fooled there Al. Whodathunk?

[KV1M]

You're correct. It would be wrong for Todd to wear a habit.

Unless it was tie dye of course.

That would be one bad habit for sure!

[K9STH]

It wasn't a Zook that financed Daniel Boone. It was a Stump. My paternal grandmother was a Stump and it was her great-great-great-great grandfather. He had been a colonel during the Revolution and his father had enlisted at age 73 in the army as a lowly private during the Revolution.

Getting back to Lincoln (well at least the Civil War). My ancestoral cousin, Samuel K. Zook, was a brigidier general (and brevet major general) who was mortally wounded at the Battle of Gettysburg while leading his New York troops in saving the Wheat Field for the Union. There is a monument in his honor near the place where he was wounded (he died the next day) within the Gettysburg National Military Park.

Now I have to find the photo taken of me with "President Lincoln" and "Mary Todd Lincoln" on his birthday 12 February 1998.

Glen, K9STH

[KG4JYD]

Instead of continually assaulting the deceased equine, why not tell us whom you believe to be the BEST president in history?Probably Jefferson followed by Coolidge, and Grover Cleveland.

[KG4JYD]

JYD has also has not replied to my pointing out that the South actually started the Civil War by firing on Federal ships and then Fort Sumter.That's because the Union didn't get their ships and fort out of South Carolina's territory.

[n2ize]

For all you anti-Lincoln people... here ... sweat this out !

Glory Glory Halleluja
His truth is marching on...

Raised up in Kentucky in a cabin cold and bare
Readin by the fireside he go his learnin there
Earned his speed by splittin logs
He grew so lean and strong
He could beat the crap out of a bully
And could right a mighty wrong

Young Abe Lincoln, Loved all the people
Oh what a wondrous man was he.
What a plain , what a humble man was he ?

Then he went to Springfield, started practicing law
Folks began to know his name from Maine to Arkansas
But when the people called him in to politics he went
For he had his date with destiny to be the PRESIDENT

Young Abe Lincoln, Loved all the people
Oh what a wondrous man was he.
And his name will remain stored in memory (RAM , Flash, Optical and Magnetic)
What a plain , what a humble man was he ?

Glory Glory Halleluja
Yeeee Hahhhhh.

When he was elected over his country to preside
Rich or poor to everyone his door was open wide
And when he felt the sorrow of a nation in distress
What he said will live forever in the Gettysburg Address (what is the ip # ?)

Young Abe Lincoln, Loved all the people
Oh what a wondrous man was he.
What a kind, what an honest man was he.

Then one dark and fatefull night that history will recall
He went to the getter in his silk hat and his shawl
And hence a shot was fired by a filthy lowlife dirtbag SCOUNDREL known as Booths
And Abe lincoln died because he stood for liberty and truth

Young Abe Lincoln, Loved all the people
Oh what a wondrous man was he.
Gave his life so that people could be free.

Down in Washington there stands a MONUMENT today
People come from near and far
And though it's over a century that he's been dead and gone
HIS TRUTH STILL MARCHES ON !!!

[K0RGR]

XR:

And I always believed that Lincoln was born in Kentucky and that his mother is buried in Indiana! Also, that he killed a "bar" when he was only 3 (whoops, that was Davy Crockett).

:D

And my 5th great grandfather was one of those who financed Daniel Boone's expeditions into Kentucky and Tennessee. Actually, that is true! During the 1790s such transactions were recorded by the Virginia legislature (why, I have no idea) and those records are available today.

Glen, K9STH

Very interesting - my '5th grandfather' served under Col. D. Boone in the revolution. His brother's war exploits are covered in Wither's Chronicles of Border Warfare. It's apparent that after the war, the brothers returned to the area of WV/OH/KY that they had first seen during the war. My ancestor had a large farm in the Parkersburg, WV area, and his brother went on to become the first sheriff of Bullit County, KY. I'll have to look for more details of Boone at the time, as his travels might explain why my ancestors moved around as they did in the 1790's.

I'm somehow related to Lincoln through the Shipley family, who were neighbors of another 5th grandfather of mine, who had a 400 acre farm on what is now the Diamond Ridge Golf Course near Baltimore in the 1740's. Nancy Hanks was supposedly a Shipley descendant.

[w2amr]

JD;

Instead of continually assaulting the deceased equine, why not tell us whom you believe to be the BEST president in history?

.
DUB YA ! Because he said that if elected he was going to bring honesty and integrity back to the White House. Whoops, I guess that didn't quite work out , did it? :(

[KV1M]

I guess being wrong for you is getting to be a habit. I am a registered Democrat, and I have voted in every election since 1964.

Still waiting on that answer Al.

[KB9YCO]

DUB YA ! Because he said that if elected he was going to bring honesty and integrity back to the White House. Whoops, I guess that didn't quite work out , did it? :(

I heard that a fan of President Bush said that he told Mr. Bush he was going to vote for him and vote for good government. Mr. Bush then replied "sorry, you can't vote twice."

(Sorry, old joke, couldn't resist.)

[w2amr]

I heard that a fan of President Bush said that he told Mr. Bush he was going to vote for him and vote for good government. Mr. Bush then replied "sorry, you can't vote twice."

(Sorry, old joke, couldn't resist.)
Q-How can you tell when bush is lying?
A- When his lips are moving.
Rim Shot.

[W3MIV]

Still waiting on that answer Al.

I don't remember hearing a question. Seems all I can recall was a fulminating speech.

[KV1M]

I don't remember hearing a question. Seems all I can recall was a fulminating speech.

Guess you were wrong about that statement then.

[k4kyv]

Lincoln never once suppressed a newspaper, although his military did on a few occasions.

Following the fall of Confederate forces and Union occupation in this county, the local newspaper was closed down for over three years. The population was thus subjected to a total news blackout during that period, since they had no radio or TV in those days.