The myth that de-regulation is the way to go

[wa8rti]

An FAA insider says the agency has a too cozy relationship with the airlines and what do we get? Southwest skips mandatory fuselage inspections. A USDA, short on inspectors due to administration budget cuts, and the company allows downer cows to be put into the food chain. The result is millions of pounds of ground beef recalled. And Reagan appointee testifiies that he told his boss there was trouble with the savings and loan industry and is told that the administration position is to 'stay off the back of business'. The result-taxpayers get stuck with billions of dollars in bailout costs. A government offical says that the regulators knew there were problems with sub-prime loans but didn't move on the issue. The result a major investment bank goes under (and more may) and the taxpayers are again going to get a bill. Evidence is that there were known problems with Enron but Ken Lay is a buddy of GWB and no government action is taken. The result is a collapse of the company and employees and other investors lose billions when the stock becomes worthless. The FDA overrides a call to remove a drug from the market in the face of evidence that the drug (used during open heart surgery) causes kidney failure. In the 2 yrs. before ordering the drug out of use, thousands die. And the company hid evidence of the problem it had before putting the drug on the market. Federal mine inspectors cite mine safety violations but allow the mine to continue to operate. The result-a mine collapse with bodies that may never be recovered.The owner claims an earthquake caused the collapse (pretty much disproven) and not the safety issues. These are only a few examples.
Now all of those who come to the forum and cry about too much government regulation or that non-enforcement is the way to go, convince me you are right. Convince me you don't mind if your kids or grandkids get lead tainted food or toys. Or that their car seat will likely result in their death in a serious crash even if the company claims it is safe. Convince me you don't care if you or family member gets a drug that may save you or kill you because the company put profit ahead of revealing unfavorable test outcomes. Again I say you are ignorant of the history of the late 19th and early 20th and the struggle to rein in corporate greed at any cost to the consuming public. The best judge of future performance of corporations is past performance. Only the collective power of the people can assure us of safe food, drugs, airplanes, fair market practices without price fixing, under the table deals, etc. It is the only way to prevent the bottom line from being the sole arbiter of company behaviour. Those who want to return to the law of the jungle as a way of life are more than happy to see any and all regulation go away. The law of the jungle is not the mark of a civilized society

[K3XR]

Guess things are getting a little too hot for the LEFT on the ZED, time to drag out the ole big bad corporations card.

http://blog.209software.com/2007/05/corporations-are-people-too.html

[wa8rti]

Nice link with lots of right wing diatribe against those who want corporate responsibility to society. Corporations indeed are treated as people under the law but people who can kill and injury not one or two but thousands by their actions. Post enforcement is too late. Now how about answering the questions posed about trusting the health and safety of your family to only the tender mercies of the corporate world. How about your own thoughts for once. But then I know better than think we will get any thing but another link. And I'm forgetting my promise of not trying to get you to answer straight up. As for the forum getting to hot for the left-no just trying to express my anger with continuing news of the corporate world's failure to do the right thing until dragged to it kicking and screaming.

[W4MAJ]

I was hoping this was about the deregulation of the phone company or mass media. Sorry, I'll carry on.

[NC5P]

Feudal America has plenty of regulations, that is for small business and individuals. For big business they can do whatever they want. It's just like billionaires don't pay income tax (Warren Buffet loves to go around saying his secretary pays more tax than he does). There used to be usury laws, anti-trust laws, and individuals could file personal bankruptcy. Large corporations can still file bankruptcy but not us (it's nearly impossible except in limited cases). Just try performing a service or selling a product, the authorities will shut you down in short order for not having the proper license (which is virtually impossible to obtain).

My whole point is that Feudal America's laws are NOT fair. They don't apply to the super rich but do to the rest of us. I think the big problem is that Americans believe in their stupid fantasies of being billionaires someday. Therefore they don't want anything to harm or hinder them and put up with the tilted scale of justice.

[wa8rti]

Silence from the right plus another link and run from XR. Could have, should have predicted that!:rolleyes:

[KG4JYD]

Only the collective power of the people can assure us of safe food, drugs, airplanes, fair market practices without price fixing, under the table deals, etc. Incorrect.

Have you ever heard of voluntary regulation? Industry trade associations? Standards organizations? API, ISO, IEEE, and UL are 3 that I can think of off the top of my head.

And you are confusing the issue. No one wants unsafe food, airlines, or shady offerings to the public. But the government is NOT the best avenue to regulate these things. The People are with their buying power. If you want to ensure your products are safe, then only by from providers who are certified through specific industry trade organizations. They are much more effective and transparent than is government.

[wa8rti]

A google search brought up 19 pharmaceutical associations. They did not force Bayer to finally remove their kidney destroying drug from the market. I never heard that the National Mine Association did anything that would have prevented those men from being killed and their bodies still unrecovered in that mine collapse. Did the Air Transport Association get Southwest Airlines to ground their planes and finally do the fuselage inspections they had skipped? These are just a few. You are overly idealist when it comes to the power and ability of industry associations to bring their members into line. Such associations are all too often just old boy's clubs whose chief function is to lobby for less regulation. One of the worst of the lot is the National Association of Manufacturers. ISO (as I understand) is mostly a paperwork chase-the product may be faulty but they have good documentation. And people and their buying power is an after the fact control. Millions of a product may be sold before it is known to be dangerous. Then people stop buying but it is too late. I can not believe you have ever read "The Jungle" or "The Robber Barons". Please familiarize yourself with the history of the late 19th and early 20th century. Learn about the pure food and drug acts and the child labor acts. It was not industry associations that stopped the marketing of adulterated food and medicine, or that took 8 year old children out of 12 hour shifts in factories.

[KD6NIG]

I would say its better for the feds to get after airlines than insurance companies after there is a crash killing 300 or so people.

Course, if the airline is doing stuff that causes that, being sued out of existence isn't a bad thing either.

But there is still the 300 or so people dead....

[KG4JYD]

A google search brought up 19 pharmaceutical associations. They did not force Bayer to finally remove their kidney destroying drug from the market. Then don't buy drugs from that pharmaceutical company if you don't trust them.


I never heard that the National Mine Association did anything that would have prevented those men from being killed and their bodies still unrecovered in that mine collapse.Then don't be a miner for a mine that is unsafe.



Did the Air Transport Association get Southwest Airlines to ground their planes and finally do the fuselage inspections they had skipped? No but due to the bad press you can bet your ass that SWA is doing everything they can to rectify the problem.



These are just a few. You are overly idealist when it comes to the power and ability of industry associations to bring their members into line. Industry associations don't bring member companies in line, THE CONSUMERS DO!

The trade orgs merely help the consumer make an informed decision on who to do business with.



Such associations are all too often just old boy's clubs whose chief function is to lobby for less regulation.Don't kid yourself. Big business likes big government because big government can regulate and legislate in favor of big business.

When large corporations lobby the elected representatives you can bet that it's for some sort of legislation that will give them an edge over the competition.



familiarize yourself with the history of the late 19th and early 20th century. Learn about the pure food and drug acts and the child labor acts.I am familiar with them, they are unconstitutional and a usurpation of power from the States to the federal government.


It was not industry associations that stopped the marketing of adulterated food and medicine, or that took 8 year old children out of 12 hour shifts in factories.One word: unions.

[k5xit]

One should know the history behind Enron. ---- There has been a disaster coming ever since the S&Ls began acting as banks. The home mortgage mess is a result of greed and not just on the part of the lenders.

[ad4mg]

Guess things are getting a little too hot for the LEFT on the ZED, time to drag out the ole big bad corporations card.

http://blog.209software.com/2007/05/corporations-are-people-too.html

BLOG!!!
In the right-wingoverse,

BLOGS = NEWS!

Hence the success of the OxyRushbo Comedy Show on the Excrement in Broadcasting network - a big fat BLOG featuring a big fat, drug addicted BOS.

Mental food for the modern NeoKon.

[ad4mg]

One should know the history behind Enron. ---- There has been a disaster coming ever since the S&Ls began acting as banks. The home mortgage mess is a result of greed and not just on the part of the lenders.

Correct! I was working for a company that was owned by Enron before the burst. I even attended a "Communications Committee" convention hosted by Enron at their corporate headquarters in Houston. I was in absolute awe at the money spent on this gathering.

I had accepted the title of "Communications Committee Chairman" in our Richmond office, mainly because nobody else was interested in doing the job. I was charged with promoting better employee-employer communications at our office.

It was interesting to watch the events unfold from within. My most vivid memory is regarding how fast this all happened. Boom to bust, in a literal fashion.

[n1ohx]

well, if I guess if you have nothing to say for your own
political idealogy, you can always hit up with a one line Quip,
followed by a web page Link heavily biased to your own
extremist agenda..But honestly, if you are one of those
types, those of us who browse this forum honestly
don't really follow those links..You are only offering
them because they are extreme, out of focus, and the
domain names are NEVER presitigous or even reasonable in
terms of intellect..So please, debate me, offer up
a sacarsit one line Quip, followed by something random from your
bookmarks..I'm ENTHRALLED by your energy.

Steven - N1OHX