Em Com Vehicle, Gasoline or Diesel?

[K5BP]

Hi,

I'm Bernie K5BP.

Our club in Dallas, Texas is contemplating replacing our Em Com vehicle. The question is, gasoline or diesel? The vehicle will be a 1 ton "dually" four door pickup. We all know diesel gives better mileage but the maintenance would be more costly due to the complexity of the engine. Gasoline is much more common but has worse mileage. This vehicle will be used much like most Em Com vehicles, normally about ten or so times a year. Out existing vehicle a 1992 model has 17,000 miles on it. Such low and erratic uses creates problems we are aware of. The main one is fuel storage. One doesn't want to have a tank full of diesel sitting up for more that 6 months or so or it will gel up. With gasoline it used to be one could put in Sta-Bil fuel additive and you could store the gas for about a year. The problem now is most gasolines are now 10% ethanol. The alcohol content of the fuel attracts moisture in long term storage, and that can form corrosive elements in the fuel.

During a real disaster which fuel would me more desirable or available?

I'd love to hear from those with experience in the field, or who are experts mechanically to comment on the pro and cons of the two fuels in emergency intermittent duty service.

Thanks and 73

Bernie Parker

K5BP

[KD8HMO]

Hi,

I'm Bernie K5BP.

Our club in Dallas, Texas is contemplating replacing our Em Com vehicle. The question is, gasoline or diesel? The vehicle will be a 1 ton "dually" four door pickup. We all know diesel gives better mileage but the maintenance would be more costly due to the complexity of the engine. Gasoline is much more common but has worse mileage. This vehicle will be used much like most Em Com vehicles, normally about ten or so times a year. Out existing vehicle a 1992 model has 17,000 miles on it. Such low and erratic uses creates problems we are aware of. The main one is fuel storage. One doesn't want to have a tank full of diesel sitting up for more that 6 months or so or it will gel up. With gasoline it used to be one could put in Sta-Bil fuel additive and you could store the gas for about a year. The problem now is most gasolines are now 10% ethanol. The alcohol content of the fuel attracts moisture in long term storage, and that can form corrosive elements in the fuel.

During a real disaster which fuel would me more desirable or available?

I'd love to hear from those with experience in the field, or who are experts mechanically to comment on the pro and cons of the two fuels in emergency intermittent duty service.

Thanks and 73

Bernie Parker



K5BP

I would say diesel. If a real emergency were to happen, you can get diesel almost anywhere. Even places like construction companies and farms. Most gasoline stations carry it as do truckstops. You can even use the red dye high sulphur off road diesel if needed. Just remember to keep water out of the tanks. Condensation from tanks being half full or even slop that came in the fuel can cause a kind of bacteria that actually eats and lives in diesel fuel to grow. This crap will cause you many headaches until you can get it out. It will plug up fuel filters and injectors. You have to go to a place like NAPA to buy an industrial strength biocide to kill it off.

Dont forget to put a nice bright light-bar on it too :D

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/delta5/lightbar.gif

[N7RJD]

Diesel does provide slightly better mileage yet Diesel fuel, on average, is quite a bit higher in price per gallon than gasoline right now. The question on this point would be does the extra mileage balance against the extra cost.

Yes maintenance on a Diesel engine is a bit higher but most Diesel engines can expect a longer life than a gasoline engine. If this is a vehicle that is expected to last Diesel would be worth considering.

Either way you will want to be sure this isn't a vehicle that sits around waiting for something to happen. You will want to get it out and drive it regularly. Nothing kills a vehicle like sitting for long periods of time between use.



Almost forgot: No porcupine, ok?

[N2RJ]

I would normally vote down diesel because in ultra cold temps it's more difficult to start the engine (my personal experience) but since you're in Dallas that's not a problem.

Either one would be fine.

If you're really thinking survivalist, remember diesel engines can run on cooking oil. Rudolf Diesel designed his engine for farmers to grow their own fuel. "Diesel fuel" came afterwards, and was initially an unwanted byproduct of petroleum refining.

[NI7I]

Hi,

I'm Bernie K5BP.

Our club in Dallas, Texas is contemplating replacing our Em Com vehicle. The question is, gasoline or diesel? The vehicle will be a 1 ton "dually" four door pickup. We all know diesel gives better mileage but the maintenance would be more costly due to the complexity of the engine. Gasoline is much more common but has worse mileage. This vehicle will be used much like most Em Com vehicles, normally about ten or so times a year. Out existing vehicle a 1992 model has 17,000 miles on it. Such low and erratic uses creates problems we are aware of. The main one is fuel storage. One doesn't want to have a tank full of diesel sitting up for more that 6 months or so or it will gel up. With gasoline it used to be one could put in Sta-Bil fuel additive and you could store the gas for about a year. The problem now is most gasolines are now 10% ethanol. The alcohol content of the fuel attracts moisture in long term storage, and that can form corrosive elements in the fuel.

During a real disaster which fuel would me more desirable or available?

I'd love to hear from those with experience in the field, or who are experts mechanically to comment on the pro and cons of the two fuels in emergency intermittent duty service.

Thanks and 73

Bernie Parker

K5BP
Dont know what oil burners you have worked on but they are less complex than gas rigs. because of the lower combustion chamber temps they tend to last longer and require LESS maint... If it was me tho.. would spend all that money on Newcastle brown or Jamisons..

Lee
NI7I

[W7KI]

Bernie,

I recommend diesel for all the above reasons, but also consider what year of diesel to buy. New trucks (I believe starting 2008) will have a bunch of particulate filter smog junk on them which will reduce reliability. I personally recommend trucks made from 2003-2005, but remember that they may not tolerate ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) in the long term as it will likely cook your injector pump. Its easy to get around this by using an appropriate lubricant additive or in a pinch dumping in a quart of motor oil per tankful. Read here for more detailed info: http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

73

Rich W7KI

[W7KI]

If you're really thinking survivalist, remember diesel engines can run on cooking oil.

...and if you are real desperate, remember you can run your engine off of scrap wood. This is quite the cool invention: http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml

[WA4TM]

Hi,

I'm Bernie K5BP.

Our club in Dallas, Texas is contemplating replacing our Em Com vehicle. The question is, gasoline or diesel? The vehicle will be a 1 ton "dually" four door pickup. We all know diesel gives better mileage but the maintenance would be more costly due to the complexity of the engine. Gasoline is much more common but has worse mileage. This vehicle will be used much like most Em Com vehicles, normally about ten or so times a year. Out existing vehicle a 1992 model has 17,000 miles on it. Such low and erratic uses creates problems we are aware of. The main one is fuel storage. One doesn't want to have a tank full of diesel sitting up for more that 6 months or so or it will gel up. With gasoline it used to be one could put in Sta-Bil fuel additive and you could store the gas for about a year. The problem now is most gasolines are now 10% ethanol. The alcohol content of the fuel attracts moisture in long term storage, and that can form corrosive elements in the fuel.

During a real disaster which fuel would me more desirable or available?

I'd love to hear from those with experience in the field, or who are experts mechanically to comment on the pro and cons of the two fuels in emergency intermittent duty service.

Thanks and 73

Bernie Parker

K5BP


If your current 1992 EMCOMM truck only has 17,000 miles on it as you state.. Why replace it? Wrecked? Or just want the latest and greatest? With a little over one thousand miles a year I have to ask why do you need another new truck that will ruin by sitting and not being used???:confused:

I am just trying to understand this.... Now if you left a zero off the mileage, then I understand and you can forget I said anything...

[WA9SVD]

Whether gas OR diesel (the real choice probably doesn't really matter...) the real answer is to not let the vehicle just "sit" for such long periods of time. It should be taken out for "exercise" periodically, just to ensure it IS ready to roll when needed, and of course, to keep the battery properly charged. While it may well cost a dozen or so dollars a month for fuel, it's better for the mechanical parts than just sitting around most of the time.

[n8fgb]

Bernie,

I recommend diesel for all the above reasons, but also consider what year of diesel to buy. New trucks (I believe starting 2008) will have a bunch of particulate filter smog junk on them which will reduce reliability. I personally recommend trucks made from 2003-2005, but remember that they may not tolerate ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) in the long term as it will likely cook your injector pump. Its easy to get around this by using an appropriate lubricant additive or in a pinch dumping in a quart of motor oil per tankful. Read here for more detailed info: http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

73

Rich W7KI

If you plan to idle the truck for long periods to use the trucks electical to run radios,the ehaust filtes will plug up.So either go used or gas.
Rich

[w2nsf]

I'd take into account the fuel my generators use. If they're gas and you have a diesel truck, you'll have to find/buy/store two types of fuel to operate. There's even a chance of mixing them up.

I think it'd be better off using the same fuel for both in an emergency EmComm setup. Keep it simple!

[ky5u]

Diesel. In emergencies there are usually big generators and fire trucks that need fuel. Some stations have diesel fuel at the station.

[KD6NIG]

If your current 1992 EMCOMM truck only has 17,000 miles on it as you state.. Why replace it? Wrecked? Or just want the latest and greatest? With a little over one thousand miles a year I have to ask why do you need another new truck that will ruin by sitting and not being used???:confused:

I am just trying to understand this.... Now if you left a zero off the mileage, then I understand and you can forget I said anything...

That was my question too. Barring some major repair or problem that is making you contemplate this, why take on the expense?

You'll have a major problem getting a lot for it either because although its low miles, its pretty old.

But if its not having any major problems, I'd take it to someone and have them run a fine tooth comb over it, fix any problems it may have, and keep going with it. I'm sure any issues you discover will be well less than the cost of a new one.

Or, perhaps, do you have grant money burning a hole in your pocket that you'll lose if you don't spend it?

[KG6WOU]

I was just thinking what my club would do with the $40K it would cost to buy a nice dually 4X4 crew cab. I guess we would fix the rest of the clubhouse up, finish the new kitchen and maybe buy replacement carpeting?

Or a couple of new repeaters.

They keep wanting to upgrade our comm truck. Waste of cash IMHO, it's basically a mobile pneumatic mast. Not that this is a bad thing. Although the members are mostly so tight with the $ that there won't ever be any money for that job.

[kb9xn]

Its a no brainer.
DIESEL

[K0RGR]

Google tells me that there are a number of places in Dallas where you can get E85 fuel. Now, I'm not sure they make a 1-ton flex-fuel truck, but it might be worth looking for. 3/4 ton models do exist. Somebody makes a 5.6 Liter V8 engine for trucks that's flex-fuel, but I am not sure who or what they put it in.

Flex-fuel vehicles have special seals, and usually stainless steel in the fuel systems, to prevent corrosion from the alcohol, so they would be better even with 10% ethanol fuel. E-85 is much cheaper than gas, and in a disaster, you should be able to find a replacement anywhere they sell that pure grain alcohol the farm kids like to get lit up on.

[k9xr]

[QUOTE=W7KI;1170373]Bernie,

I recommend diesel for all the above reasons, but also consider what year of diesel to buy. New trucks (I believe starting 2008) will have a bunch of particulate filter smog junk on them which will reduce reliability. I personally recommend trucks made from 2003-2005, but remember that they may not tolerate ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) in the long term as it will likely cook your injector pump. Its easy to get around this by using an appropriate lubricant additive or in a pinch dumping in a quart of motor oil per tankful. Read here for more detailed info: http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

73

Rich W7KI[/QUO

I'm pretty sure that the new emissions had to be on the engines built 01-01-07 and later. I have a 2007 Mack that was made in 2006, and it still has the old style engine. As far as the Ultra Low Sulfur cooking the pump, I don't buy it. I remember hearing those same stories back in the early 80's when they first started to phase out regular high sulfur fuel. They use other additives for lubrication in place of the sulfur.

I also thought that Ultra Low Sulfur was all that is available for on-road use now. That's all we can buy around here. Pretty soon, (if not already), they are going to phase out high sulfur altogether, even for off-road use.


I dread the day I have to buy a new heavy duty truck. Maybe I can get lucky and retire before than.

[ka0gkt]

My call would be diesel. Here's why.

While you can put an additive (like StaBil) into Gasoline, if the engine doesn't burn, oh say a tankful of gasoline every-other-month, you can have problems with the fuel system getting gunked up in a gasoline fired vehicle. We have this problem with some Thiokol Snow Cats where I work. They get used for a few months over the winter, then we need to defuel them and clear the carbuerator bowl or at the beginning of the snow season, they won't start.

Diesel, if kept in a full tank doesn't have this problem. As far as cold weather starting, I haven't ever had any problems. I once owned an '83 Ford Escort Diesel. It started very nicely even in the -30F temperatures we had during the winter in Nebraska. I did plug it in (block heater) when I got home and parked overnight, but it sat out in the cold parking lot at work all day and never failed to start first crank. The Glow Plug control circuit did its job. I waited forthe little light in the dash to extiunguish, then cranked and it started.

Just my $.02

[ve2nsm]

Gas or diesel is not important, just make sure it has the super light bar and a lot of antennas, also the super wacker kit in the back seat :D

[K1CJS]

Diesel is by no means the one and only choice of fuels. Taking into account that each and every fuel has its drawbacks, the choice can only be made by looking very closely at your requirements and the will of your people to the upkeep of this vehicle. If your current vehicle has only 19,000 miles on it, it may be better to refurb it than spend the money on an entirely new unit.

I'm sure there is a company that will take the existing unit, disassemble its working parts and rebuild them to a like new condition for a lot less than a new unit will cost.

I personally know one man who wanted a Chevy Blazer type vehicle for his work vehicle (including snow plowing). After looking over the offerings at the local dealerships, he decided to rebuild a 1985 vintage Blazer rather than buy a new one. His total cost was a bit below $9,000 while the dealer wanted near $25,000 for a new truck with NO plow rig. He also had the opportunity to build the entire rig the way HE wanted it rather than having to pick offerings off a dealers check list.

The result? A truck that will get good gas mileage, last as long as a new one, doesn't have all the drawbacks of computerized everything, and he also had a nice bank account balance left when he was finished.

It is by no means the definitive solution to your situation, but i think it may be worth a look.

[XV2PS]

Emergency is gasoil (diesel) simply because it is much more reliable, especially in case of floods. No ignition = much less electrics.

All emergency vehicle I have seen in real emergency mission on heavy terrains were on diesel.

Troque in 4x4 gives also full advantage to diesel. But you also have to check when (if one) the turbo charges, it can transform a 4x4 diesel into a badly controlable "highway car".

[VK2AKG]

Hi, Our club in Dallas, Texas is contemplating replacing our Em Com vehicle. The question is, gasoline or diesel? The vehicle will be a 1 ton "dually" four door pickup.K5BP

If the propaganda can be believed the USA is neck deep in Canyonero (http://duffgardens.net/media/sounds/Canyonero.mp3) SUVs driven by wankers (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wanker) in search of a mission. If you were to purchase and fit out an all terrain trailer they will probably queue up to tow it for you (especially if you can attach some magnetic signage and a flashing light to the hero of the day's vehicle). Alternately if you really provide a useful service and can't get a tow then the authorities will place it for you.

This will be so much less cost and maintenance than having a dedicated "emcomm vehicle" that you might be able to field a few of them and keep a lot of people happy.

Something to think about anyway.

[ka0gkt]

I beleive that you have hit the proverbial nail directly on the head, Frank.

There are communications trailers available government surplus from time to time which would be a good basis of an "EMCOM" vehicle, best thing is that you don't need to build another one everytime the motive power wears out, just hitch it to another truck, and as Jackie Gleason said, "Away WE Go!"

I suggest that you equip the trailer with a Pintle Ring style hitch. That way, if you need to get it somewhere a typical civilian 4x4 won't go, you can hitch it to a National Guard Hummer or 6x6 deuce-and-a-half. Pintle hitches are available to fit a Class V hitch receptical, so any truck capable of pulling the rig can quickly acquire a Pintle Hook.

One other possibility might be a good used TV remote truck. Most have a 30-Ft. air mast, a Coleman RV Air Conditioner and a generator on board. If you're lucky it'll have 19" equipment racks already mounted in the vehicle and an operator's desk.

Remote trucks come in both gasoline and diesel.