New Jersey's revised cell phone law

[KC2GMN]

This past Saturday 3/1/08, NJ's revised cell phone law went into effect. After reading it, it appears that talking not only on a hand held cell phone will earn you a ticket, but it now includes "electronic communication device" (read two way radio here), ham, CB, FRS, etc. Just wait till some trucker or other good buddy is stopped and receives a ticket under this newly revised law, then the screaming will start.

Amateur radio is excluded.

Here's the URL for the text of it http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/PL07/198_.HTM

All the ham's in NJ should print out a copy and highlight the part about amateur radio, keep it in your car with your registration and insurance card and a copy of your FCC ticket too.

Even if you don't live in NJ, you never know when you might drive through the fine police state of the People's Republic of NJ and some over zealous uniform spot's you with one hand on the wheel and the other holding a mike to your rig.

73
Ray

[n0ov]

I am actually surprised the "Garbage State" actually added an Amateur Radio Exclusion to this law. Should be an interesting discussion the first time a State Trooper pulls someone over for running a laptop and learns they were not "texting" but using "APRS"

[KI4AGR]

Kentucky allso has a Excluded Amatur radio law - I keep a copy in my car it is allso for Scanners - If you come this way get your print out !!
73 - Don

[n9lya]

NewJersy,

The Nanny State - You are too stupid to take care of yoruself so we do it for you.. (State Moto)


73 Jerry N9LYA



This past Saturday 3/1/08, NJ's revised cell phone law went into effect. After reading it, it appears that talking not only on a hand held cell phone will earn you a ticket, but it now includes "electronic communication device" (read two way radio here), ham, CB, FRS, etc. Just wait till some trucker or other good buddy is stopped and receives a ticket under this newly revised law, then the screaming will start.

Amateur radio is excluded.

Here's the URL for the text of it http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/PL07/198_.HTM

All the ham's in NJ should print out a copy and highlight the part about amateur radio, keep it in your car with your registration and insurance card and a copy of your FCC ticket too.

Even if you don't live in NJ, you never know when you might drive through the fine police state of the People's Republic of NJ and some over zealous uniform spot's you with one hand on the wheel and the other holding a mike to your rig.

73
Ray

[WA8FOZ]

Might there be a website or some other resource where these statutes (and HR exclusions!)are posted for each state? It would be very convenient to have these to refer to and make printouts when we travel.

[WA4TM]

Might there be a website or some other resource where these statutes (and HR exclusions!)are posted for each state? It would be very convenient to have these to refer to and make printouts when we travel.


Yes, this would be very good info to have on hand!!!

[K4JF]

I don't see any exclusion for police or EMTs in that listing. It will get interesting when (if) a policeman answers a call from HQ while driving and Highway Patrolman tickets him! And of course if he doesn't ticket him, then the civilians have cause for complaint.

Keg of worms, what?

[N9MOQ]

All the ham's in NJ should print out a copy and highlight the part about amateur radio, keep it in your car

With the dozens of other copies from all the other states that I already have similar copies of showing the exemption for Hams?

Instead of us all having to have a notebook with all these new laws coming out every year from every state, we should just keep radio laws on the Federal level and forbid states from causing all this grief.

Perhaps the FCC could issue us licenses that has print on it saying that no state laws may apply to the radios or operation of radios by the person named on the license.

And perhaps all police officers of every state, county, city, village and town could be taught and trained about the laws, so that the citizens don't have to carry copies of the laws around in order to avoid arrest or time educating the officers of the laws they are not aware of.

Especially since most police officers do not like it when you try to tell them they are wrong and try to get them to read a copy of the law you have.

I don't like being put in that postion.

[WA4TM]

With the dozens of other copies from all the other states that I already have similar copies of showing the exemption for Hams?

Instead of us all having to have a notebook with all these new laws coming out every year from every state, we should just keep radio laws on the Federal level and forbid states from causing all this grief.

Perhaps the FCC could issue us licenses that has print on it saying that no state laws may apply to the radios or operation of radios by the person named on the license.

And perhaps all police officers of every state, county, city, village and town could be taught and trained about the laws, so that the citizens don't have to carry copies of the laws around in order to avoid arrest or time educating the officers of the laws they are not aware of.

Especially since most police officers do not like it when you try to tell them they are wrong and try to get them to read a copy of the law you have.

I don't like being put in that postion.

I am not arguing this issue, just saying it would be nice if WE had a copy of the state laws, as you all know there are some very "creative" interpretations of laws every day..

Might not be much help on the Barney Phife types out there, BUT having a copy of the law might help when you have your day in court..

73

[kc2egl]

I know that New York City did the same thing back around 2000 or 2001. I am not sure if the former Republic on New York State did the same. With the current batch of Communists controling the state (Dictator Spitzer for one) I would not be surprised if they passed a law stating it is not permissible to have a radio in your car unless you are a soldier of the state.

[WR2E]

Why should hams have any more right to drive with distractions than average Joe ? Show me the science where it says just cuz yer a ham, you drive better while fiddling with yer rigs ?

In a state as congested as NJ, you shouldn't even be allowed to pick yer nose while driving ...

[k4zag]

Should be smart enough to know when its just to risky to pick up the mic. etc. and both hands are best on the wheel..


Why should hams have any more right to drive with distractions than average Joe ? Show me the science where it says just cuz yer a ham, you drive better while fiddling with yer rigs ?

In a state as congested as NJ, you shouldn't even be allowed to pick yer nose while driving ...

[AB1FV]

Interesting....they are banning the use of "Wireless Telephones" while driving, but you can use your mobile or HT while driving, to connect to a Repeater to use the Autopatch to make that phone call!
Talk about a workaround!! :D

[KC2ESD]

All the ham's in NJ should print out a copy and highlight the part about amateur radio, keep it in your car with your registration and insurance card and a copy of your FCC ticket too.

I copied and paste the webpage into MS Word, then I made the phrase "shall not include an amateur radio." in Bold and PT 14 letter size. This way when the Police ask "Let me see your papers" they will be able to see the Amateur Radio exception right away.
I just can't wait when a trucker gets a ticket for using a CB radio, then the fur will fly and 101.5FM will be the station to listen to. NJ sucks anymore, its not the good place it used to be.

73 de Rick KC2ESD

[kb3afz]

I am an OTR truck Driver, and a General Class. I realize the importance of being safe on the road in a rig as well as a 4 wheeler etc... Talking on the cell phone while driving an 18 wheeler is very distracting, and dangerous. Using a hands free device is, in my opinion with explanation, much safer than holding a phone to your ear. Holding the phone to your ear while operating a CMV, (Commercial Vehicle), you lose control of the vehicle. Let's face it, how the hell can you shift, steer, and utilize a turn signal handle with 1 hand? Some claim they can do it, but I sure wouldn't. Most states are passing laws making it Illegal to operate a cell phone with or without a handsfree device in a commercial vehicle or any vehicle for that matter. So if we have a hands free kit attatched to our phone, and carrying on a conversation while in motion, I see no difference between having a passenger in the other seat and talking with them? Do you? So the law in a round about way is saying you have to drive and SHUT UP!!!!... You can drive the hell outta your car, or drive your work vehicle, but if your moving you either have to shut up, or pull over and place your call. For those of you whom have never driven in Jersey..... well I must say, if everyone who placed a call would pull over on the birm and place a call, the state would have to pave another lane for that purpose, and the traffic jams would cease.

I also wanted to note that MANY MANY times, and Jersey Included.... I have passed state troopers, and local police passing me in my rig with a cell phone stuck to their ear. Often, a couple friends of mine who drive, and I have thought of installing cameras in our rigs, and filming such incidents, and sending the film to the particular precinct or police barracks and saying" Hmmm I wonder why we can't do this"?

As for Ham Radio/CB, I would love for a policeman to write me a ticket for lifting my microphone. (I don't use a CB unless I need to at shippers or receivers or a rare occaision to find out traffic jam info) I would explain to that officer the importance of communications as an Amateur Radio Operator and having the capabilities of passing emergency traffic in the time of need. Oh I am sure he would smile and say sign here, as all DOT and police entities love the revenue thay can gain from the trucking industry, but I sure would fight it, and damn sure would make a NATIONAL SPECTICLE of that particular police force. Does this country really understand how important we Hams can be?????? I already know the answer... NO, and do they care? YES in time of need and we come out of the woodwork to help when no one else will, they smile and pat us on the back.....

OK I have said my piece on this.

KB3AFZ
Randy
www.forestcountyarc.com

[N8PU]

Should be smart enough to know when its just to risky to pick up the mic. etc. and both hands are best on the wheel..


But that would require using something called common sense... :eek: Which at times seem to be in short supply. :(

[kb2vxa]

"Why should hams have any more right to drive with distractions than average Joe?"

Because when we first became aware of the bill we SPOKE UP and nipped it in the bud!

[n3zjy]

No, officer, this is an Amateur Radio modified to operate on the CB band!

How's it going, Warren?

Dave
(N3ZJY, formerly KB2YCE)

[kb3afz]

Hope that wasn't aimed at this driver. My Ham radios are Ham Radios and my Uniden pro510 is a CB.

C ya
Randy

[kb2vxa]

"No, officer, this is an Amateur Radio modified to operate on the CB band!"

And I thought it was a locomotive radio modified to operate on 2M. (I had a Micor with Canadian National stenciled on it.) Pretty good Dave, it's been a long time since Cherryville.

No Randy, we're not talking about you unless you drive a GP40-PH2.

[g0orc]

Hi everyone,

Just a warning for those of you who operate in the UK - don't try and make a differentiation between anything that the law says distracts you. It won't wash here.

Mobile (cell) phone, CB, PMR (personal mobile radio) and AR are all included. It even covers hands-free mobile (cell) phone installations if it is considered that you were not properly in control of your vehicle.

Even if you are changing a radio station or a CD in your car while moving you may well find yourself in trouble if you are involved in a moving traffic offence.

Oh, by the way, the nanny state - if you think that you have a problem with people telling you what you can or can't do, then try living here. Put away your romantic images of the UK and listen to this.

We are told how much we can drink, eat, smoke, drive (and how fast), how much exercise we must take (even to the extent of the possibility of medical care being denied if you are too fat). Theres no smoking in any confined place, no drinking is pre-designated open spaces, no advertising of "unsuitable" foods before 2100 at night, just to make sure the little children ain't corrupted into eating something that may have a little bit of fat in it.

And this is just the thin end of the wedge - just wait until our government changes colour, as it will at the next election. Just watch the nanny state really start to take a hold.

VInce G0ORC




NewJersy,

The Nanny State - You are too stupid to take care of yoruself so we do it for you.. (State Moto)


73 Jerry N9LYA

[wa2upq]

I am a native New Jerseyan and I resent my state being called a "police state". NJ is the most densely-populated state in the union, and it requires every bit of concentration to drive its congested roads. I agree with one of the previous comments that if we're completely fair and objective, what special rights should hams have to be exempt from the law? And please don't come with an "emergency communication" argument. Living in a populated state or country requires more rules and regulations to avoid chaos. If you want to experience what police states are *really* like, come to Europe! There's a rule and regulation for every aspect of life. And HB9-Land is still among the freest of them all! Having said all of this, I can assure you that America is headed the same way and for the same reasons. Not all the country lives in Texas and Montana. Furthermore, I can assure you that if European-type security and control measures had been in place in 2001, 9/11 could never have heppened.

As tough as it might be, get used to it. Welcome to the world - the real one.

73,

Bob HB9ASQ / WA2UPQ

[m0zcw]

Statutory Instrument 2003 No. 2695

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003

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STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS

2003 No. 2695

ROAD TRAFFIC

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003

Made 20th October 2003
Laid before Parliament 27th October 2003
Coming into force 1st December 2003

The Secretary of State in exercise of the powers conferred on him by section 41(1) and (5) of the Road Traffic Act 1988[1], and after consultation with representative organisations in accordance with section 195(2) of that Act, hereby makes the following Regulations:

Citation, commencement and interpretation
1. These Regulations may be cited as the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003 and shall come into force on 1st December 2003.

Amendment of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
2. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986[2] are amended by inserting after regulation 109 -

" Mobile telephones
110. - (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using -

(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or

(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).

(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is using -

(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or

(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).

(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using -

(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or

(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4),

at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.

(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.

(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention -

(a) he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;

(b) he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and

(c) it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).

(6) For the purposes of this regulation -

(a) a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;

(b) a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);

(c) "interactive communication function" includes the following:

(i) sending or receiving oral or written messages;

(ii) sending or receiving facsimile documents;

(iii) sending or receiving still or moving images; and

(iv) providing access to the internet;

(d) "two-way radio" means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted -

(i) for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and

(ii) to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and

(e) "wireless telegraphy" has the same meaning as in section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949[3]."



Signed by authority of the Secretary of State


David Jamieson
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State Department for Transport

20th October 2003


EXPLANATORY NOTE

(This note is not part of the Regulations)


These regulations amend the Construction and Use Regulations 1986 by inserting a new regulation 110.

Regulations 110(1) and (2) prohibit a person from driving, or causing or permitting a person to drive, a motor vehicle on a road if the driver is using a hand-held mobile telephone or similar device. Regulation 110(3) prohibits a person from using a mobile telephone or similar device while supervising a holder of a provisional licence at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road. It is an offence under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to contravene these regulations. Regulation 110(4) provides a definition of devices that are considered similar to hand-held mobile telephones for the purpose of these regulations. This definition excludes two-way radios.

Regulation 110(5) provides that in specific circumstances a person will not breach the regulation. Where a person makes a call to the emergency services on 999 or 112 in response to a genuine emergency where it is unsafe or impracticable for him (or the provisional licence holder) to cease driving while the call is being made, the regulation is not breached.

[n3vbn]

I would expect nothing less from the state where you can't pump your own gas or make a real left turn

[N2JBE]

Why should hams have any more right to drive with distractions than average Joe ? Show me the science where it says just cuz yer a ham, you drive better while fiddling with yer rigs ?


The exclusion is likely because the State has no authority to restrict operation of Amateur Radio. Amateur Radio is a federally regulated service over which New Jersey has absolutely no jurisdiction.

[N2JBE]

I am a native New Jerseyan and I resent my state being called a "police state". NJ is the most densely-populated state in the union, and it requires every bit of concentration to drive its congested roads. I agree with one of the previous comments that if we're completely fair and objective, what special rights should hams have to be exempt from the law?

Show me where the Federal Government gives New Jersey the authority to regulate use of Amateur Radio.

...


Didn't think so...

[kb9wxl]

Especially since most police officers do not like it when you try to tell them they are wrong and try to get them to read a copy of the law you have.

I don't like being put in that postion.


Thats never a good position to be in , it's best to shut up , listen , and maybe he will just let it go, if not and should he make an issue of it , thats why we have lawyers , look at it this way , you could use the money from the lawsuit to buy new radios.:)

[N9MOQ]

The exclusion is likely because the State has no authority to restrict operation of Amateur Radio. Amateur Radio is a federally regulated service over which New Jersey has absolutely no jurisdiction.

The next logical step, would be to make Driver's licenses and laws under the Federal government as well. For the same reason and mess that would be caused if we allowed each state to issue radio licenses and make their own laws about transmitting radio, we need to stop the mess of each state making their own driving laws and licenses.

It would be very simple for the Federal government to incorporate ONE rule for ONE country about the use of radios and cellphones while driving, so citizens don't have to memorize dozens of contradicting laws.

And it gets worse. Cities, villages and towns are making their own laws and ordinances against seat belts, cellphone use, etc. So even if a state lets you do something, you might drive through a town that will fine you for it.

What a mess.

[K1CJS]

I know that New York City did the same thing back around 2000 or 2001. I am not sure if the former Republic on New York State did the same. With the current batch of Communists controling the state (Dictator Spitzer for one) I would not be surprised if they passed a law stating it is not permissible to have a radio in your car unless you are a soldier of the state.

If I'm not mistaken, a law of that type IS on the books. I believe there was a ham who had a scanner and transceiver in his car and got ticketed for just that reason. It took him one or two trips to court AND the services of an attorney to get the ticket nullified. The attorneys arguement was based on the fact that only the FCC can regulate ham transmitters and the scanner was being used for ham radio/emegency management/weather spotter purposes.

That ham won, but it still cost him time lost from work, transportation costs and legal fees. I believe the law has since been changed to exempt ham radio licensees, but I'm not sure.

[k5co]

If you are driving in traffic and chatting on you little toy radios, you're an idiot. Don't give me that stuff about being under control; your vehicle has a distracted driver that is also stupid.
If you have a call to make, pull off the road. :eek:

[N9MOQ]

If you are driving in traffic and chatting on you little toy radios, you're an idiot. Don't give me that stuff about being under control; your vehicle has a distracted driver that is also stupid.
If you have a call to make, pull off the road. :eek:

If that is true, then should it not also apply to police officers?

Is there any justification to make an exception for them, and if so, could that same reasoning ever apply to a Ham Radio operator?

[n1dvj]

Show me where the Federal Government gives New Jersey the authority to regulate use of Amateur Radio.

Didn't think so...

Sorry N2JBE, but the state DOES have the right. They are not regulating Amateur Radio, they are regulating operation of the motor vehicle. Please don't fall into the trap of thinking that 'Amateur Radio' is a magic phrase that protects all with some kind of spell from a Harry Potter movie.

As to New York, the last I heard, and I may not have it correct and/or current, K1CJS has it pretty close to correct. The HAM did win, but it cost him. From what I've read, and again I may not be current on this, NY law applies to ANY radio that can receive police or public service signals in a mobile. This STILL applies to Amateur Radio IF the rig in question receives public service. TECHNICALLY (or so I was led to believe) the law does NOT apply to radios or even scanners that do NOT have police, fire, etc frequencies in place and usable while driving. It must be capable of receive prohibited communications at that time, not just be possible to be programmed later. (Ie, frequencies in place in memory)

Hmm, I have one of the old 'card' type scanners. The Sears 5-band, like the SBE Optiscan only 16 channel. I could swap a card out in a second...

Actually, that's what a friend used to do when he had to go to Philly, since they were worse than even the UK. At one point, I heard Philladelphia police in the 70's raided Radio Shacks for any and all 12v and battery powered radios that could receive police...

But then, they are the same group that decided that the STATE permits for firearms didn't apply inside the city limits.

Mike

[W5HTW]

Don't confuse two issues. As noted, the state is regulating vehicle safety, not the use of amateur radio. They are different animals.

First, the FCC exemption applies, concerning having an amateur radio transceiver (note those words!) in your vehicle, and using it *for amateur radio purposes.* The FCC exemption does not, in any way, cover the use of an amateur radio transceiver which is being used to cover public safety or other non-amateur radio frequencies. It is then a scanner, and falls under local scanner laws. Sorry, but that is fact.

Remember, that is the 'having of the transceiver in the vehicle.' It doesn't cover distracted use of that transceiver. That part falls under, as noted above, vehicle safety, and the FCC is not involved. Consequently there is nothing in any federal statutes that would prohibit a state from including amateur radio in its distracted driving laws. NJ did not have to exclude amateur radio from its law, either.

Think of it this way. There is no law prohibiting having a cell phone in your car. And there is no law prohibiting having an amateur radio in your vehicle, either.

So don't confuse the 'use' with the 'having.' If you have a ham transceiver, you are welcome to pull over on the shoulder and use it. Exactly the same as your cell phone, your CB, FRS, MURS, etc.

The FCC does not regulate driving safety. There is no FCC rule against using a hands-on cell phone while your vehicle is in motion!

Separate the issues, please. And read closely the FCC exemption on having an amateur radio transceiver in your vehicle. It in NO WAY protects you anywhere if you are using that radio to receive public safety frequencies! Be sure you understand that exemption.

[wa2upq]

Show me where the Federal Government gives New Jersey the authority to regulate use of Amateur Radio.

...


Didn't think so...

The federal government is indeed responsible for the control and licensing of radio communication, and they're doing that specific job. But this control does *not* extend to regulating the *physical use* of operation. Your mobile ham rig is part of a motor vehicle, and that is the domain of the states. The legality of all of this has obviously been checked and coordinated between state and federal government. The same applies to antenna regulations, although the argument there is less clear. There may be an argument for regulating driving at the federal level, as in the case of aviation. The same might be true for medicine and education. In fact, there would be a powerful argument for doing so. But "federalism" (another term for the tradition and concept of "states' rights") has produced a different evolution in law-making and division of powers. Incidentally, all this applies to the concept of "federalism" originating in Switzerland in 1291, and which the US founding fathers borrowed and adopted in the American constitution. It's not a new idea.

But even if the federal government did take over responsibility for regulating motor vehicles and drivers, I think you assume too much in assuming that the federal government would allow hamming while driving. I suspect a federal law might be even tougher than what most of the states have legislated.

Be grateful for small mercies.

Bob HB9ASQ / WA2UPQ
International Broadcaster and Journalist
Licensed since 1961

[emrad]

Greetings, all!

Here in CA I believe they exempted two way radios (push to talk type equipment).

Even before the cell phone ban, distracted driving was illegal. One would think that that would have been sufficient. Any law layered on top of that to target specifics, cell phones, reading the newspaper, shaving, whatever, seems like a waste of resources all around, except, perhaps, additional "revenue" from being able to tack extra violations onto that ticket. I can see where there might also be more uniforms out there who would elect to ticket, regardless of whether the driver is a ham or not, and let the courts sort it all out because it's easier. It happens. I've gotten tickets for parking in a no parking zone I wasn't parked in.

Bottom line, NO one should drive distracted, whether it be a ham or not. But let's face the unfortunate truth here: not all drivers are created equal. There are drivers out there who can handle their vehicles pretty well while communicating. Then there are the ones who can't seem to walk and chew gum at the same time. There are drivers who keep their attention on the road and drivers who pull straight out into traffic without stopping or even bothering to look first. I don't trust the latter even if I don't see a cell phone in their hand! I've come close to being hit by them way to many times! I always give them PLENTY of room on the road.

These "Cell Phone Laws" popping up from state to state seem to punish everyone for the actions of those few idiots. Perhaps it would be more useful to have laws that reflect diver's individual performance, or lack thereof. For example: if a driver is caught swerving out of their lane or pulling out without looking whilst holding a cell phone up to their head, an automatic ban on further cell phone use while driving for THAT DRIVER should come with the ticket, then send them off to traffic school just for good measure.
More stringent screening in the licensing process couldn't hurt either.

73

Emrad

[W5HLH]

Furthermore, I can assure you that if European-type security and control measures had been in place in 2001, 9/11 could never have heppened.



You mean the same security measures that prevented the 2005 London subway bombings and the 2004 Madrid train bombings???

Whatever you say, Sparkie. . . . . . . I have to admire the way you didn't let objective reality get in the way of your gusty rhetoric.

New Jersey has always been a state with one set of rules and laws for the plebes and another for the elites (cf. Governor Corzine's car crash in 2007). Anyone want to bet that various New Jersey state officials (that is, "crooks") will continue to use their cell phones while driving and do so with impunity?

[kb2rhn]

when i worked as a police officer in new jersey my men were on the cell phone all the time. when i say all the time; i had officers which ran up enormous amount of hours, thats right not minutes, hours on the phone while they were driving. I'm sure it has not stopped. here we go again a law which pertains to YOU not them. they were on the phones for pleasure not business. same as the regulations in the business, instead of taking care of the problem few, lets smack em all.
kb2rhn

[VE3ID]

I think th esuggestion of someone creating a database of state laws to print out when mobiling is a great idea. I am driving across the USA this spring and plan to try and find all the laws, as well as a copy of the treaty authorising Canadian amateurs to operate in the states.

I tried asking on Yahoo questions if there was such a database and I got silly answers like "ham radio is now legal in all states, where have you been?

I must say I like the more intelligent level of conversation in this forum!

If anybody knows of laws in addition to the NJ one, maybe they coul dpost links here and we could all print them off to carry with us. It could save us hours in court!

73
Nigel
ve3id/g4ajq

[W2BEN]

So far, only local cities " Handheld CELL PHONE restrictions IN SCHOOL ZONES"
but we are usually a couple of years behind the rest of the country..
73 from VENUS
W2BEN

[wa2upq]

You mean the same security measures that prevented the 2005 London subway bombings and the 2004 Madrid train bombings???

Whatever you say, Sparkie. . . . . . . I have to admire the way you didn't let objective reality get in the way of your gusty rhetoric.

New Jersey has always been a state with one set of rules and laws for the plebes and another for the elites (cf. Governor Corzine's car crash in 2007). Anyone want to bet that various New Jersey state officials (that is, "crooks") will continue to use their cell phones while driving and do so with impunity?

I can't speak for Spain, but I do know about the UK. There is no residency control or personal ID system there, and once you're in the country - as has been the case in the US - you're free to do just about anything. In the rest of Europe (with which the British do not identify), every resident is registered, and is required to report changes of residency. It's virtually impossible to just "slip in and disappear". Some form of official, secure ID has always been required as well - just like what is being done now in the US...as a result of 9/11. Anyone with a shady background, or who is a potential or active "risk" is more easily trackable. Law-abiding citizens have nothing to fear and are not hounded. If the US had had such a system, there would be no crisis of illegal immigration today.

Old Europe has a long experience in dealing with terrorism and criminality. Just as an apt example: If someone here with an obviously suspect "ethnic" background were to request commercial airliner flight instruction without wanting to learn how to land, trust me - the police would have paid them a visit in short order. America - like Britain - has been crippled by political correctness, which has made it difficult to officially "profile" individuals.

America's "problem" is that it has known very little control and regulation in its young history. It's now coming to maturity. That - as in the case of any growing child - is not to the liking of everybody.

As for my "rhetoric", it's based on 40 years as a journalist and broadcaster. That gives me a few more on Rush Limbaugh. We're of the same ilk - just the politics and degree of worliness are different.

As I said, get used to it. It's going to get worse. America was once a beacon of freedom. But alas, that was idealistic and naive, and that freedom has been abused by some nasty people because of that fact. The beacon has gotten weak due to the reality of today's world. Things change - that's a natural law. And so it is with cell phoning while driving. Those regulations represent the laws of virtually all Western countries. Globalization is not just an economic concept; it also applies to law-making, like it or not.

As for New Jersey (and to be politically incorrect), it was and is still the home of the southern Italian mafia, which has left its mark on the local culture. That culture holds that "laws are meant to be broken". That's why this whole thread is a tempest in a tea cup; the NJ law will hardly be enforced. That's one of the most endearing qualities of my state, and I love it.

And lest I be considered "ethnically offensive", just look at my name. :-)

73,
Bob (Zanotti) HB9ASQ / WA2UPQ

[N9MOQ]

I think th esuggestion of someone creating a database of state laws to print out when mobiling is a great idea.

Then you should be even happier to have someone create a database of every county, city, town and village, because they all have their own laws and ordinances too.

Before our state made it a law to wear a seatbelt, some villages and cities made ordinances requiring seat belt use. (to the surprise of those that lived in cities without these laws who got pulled over and ticketed with a fine)

It wasn't a traffic ticket on your state record, but a big fine you had to send to the village.

[KG4RRN]

Barney Phife is spelled F-i-f-e sir !

The only exemptions are for fire dept volunteers and callsign license plates.
If you dont have one, get one, my advise.
That way even if you get a ticket, you can fight it in court, the proof is in the paperwork.
This is why the FCC is full of lawyers....
73,

[n9lya]

Thats why this is suposed to be a FREE Country and why we left England... Unfortunantly everyday we are moving more away from a FREE Country...



Hi everyone,

Just a warning for those of you who operate in the UK - don't try and make a differentiation between anything that the law says distracts you. It won't wash here.

Mobile (cell) phone, CB, PMR (personal mobile radio) and AR are all included. It even covers hands-free mobile (cell) phone installations if it is considered that you were not properly in control of your vehicle.

Even if you are changing a radio station or a CD in your car while moving you may well find yourself in trouble if you are involved in a moving traffic offence.

Oh, by the way, the nanny state - if you think that you have a problem with people telling you what you can or can't do, then try living here. Put away your romantic images of the UK and listen to this.

We are told how much we can drink, eat, smoke, drive (and how fast), how much exercise we must take (even to the extent of the possibility of medical care being denied if you are too fat). Theres no smoking in any confined place, no drinking is pre-designated open spaces, no advertising of "unsuitable" foods before 2100 at night, just to make sure the little children ain't corrupted into eating something that may have a little bit of fat in it.

And this is just the thin end of the wedge - just wait until our government changes colour, as it will at the next election. Just watch the nanny state really start to take a hold.

VInce G0ORC

[ka5piu]

Hello.

Every state has its policies.
In Texas, in the big cities, seat belt enforcement is almost a non-issue.
In the country, the cops go nuts over every little thing.
Big cities make very little money on traffic enforcement, as operating a legal system is expensive in urban areas, and, as the person who got the citation most likely lives there, a good chance of an appeal in the courtroom.
In the countryside, the reverse is true.
Out in bubbasville, they could care less what it is, CB radio, Amateur, FRS, whatever.
They only point out the use of such a device, but get you for improper lane control, failure to signal, failure to keep a hand on the wheel, driving while distracted, etc.
The cops do not need such a law, the fines for just that 4 is well over $600 in Texas.
So, get a bluetooth device, stick that in your ear, unless you have a better place, :D , and be done with it.
And, a LOT of trucking companies are now requiring hands free CB radios, thus the headsets and the like.
Cobra has taken the popular BluMic idea and adapted this to the Cobra 29 LTD.
Most trucking companies now limit, or even prohibit, Amateur Radio devices as a matter of employment policy.

[kc2egl]

If I'm not mistaken, a law of that type IS on the books. I believe there was a ham who had a scanner and transceiver in his car and got ticketed for just that reason. It took him one or two trips to court AND the services of an attorney to get the ticket nullified. The attorneys arguement was based on the fact that only the FCC can regulate ham transmitters and the scanner was being used for ham radio/emegency management/weather spotter purposes.

That ham won, but it still cost him time lost from work, transportation costs and legal fees. I believe the law has since been changed to exempt ham radio licensees, but I'm not sure.
My reason for putting it the way I did about New York City having a ban on all communication devices is that I was still living in NYC when they did it. At the time it was only in effect in the city. Shortly after I moved from my homeland, Nassau and Suffolk counties followed suit. I was not aware if the rest of the state had travled the same road. I do have a problem with most who use a cell phone while driving. I have wittnessed far to many traffic accidents because of some bonehead having a cell phone on one ear while driving and not paying attention. Heck, here in WPA I see the same thing all the time. My YL's daughter has her cell up to her ear the moment she puts the car in drive and a ciggarette in the hand she has on the wheel. She has had 3 accidents and has been caught speeding once. When I first moved to Pa I was working in Kittanning delivering mail. I would see all the HS kids driving away from school with a cell phone to the ear. I stood on a corner one day and watched 5 of them blow a stop sign not even looking to see if any traffic was approaching from any direction. One kid nearly ran over a elderly lady with a walker. He had the nerve to scream at her to get the *#%& off the street. On the other hand I have yet to see anyone who is operating a 2 way radio beit ham or cb cause a accident. Why? Because they do not have the radio held up to the ear. I know when I operate my 2M/70CM mobile rig in my car I place my mic on my lap after I finish a statement. And if needed I will sign off if traffic conditions require it.

As for the gentleman from NJ who takes offense to his home state being picked on, it is the fault of the voters for that happening. Just like your neighbors to the east and north (NY put Spitzer in office) you put Corzine in office. He like a few of those who are wanting to have the main suite at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave want total control of everyones everyday life. From how you light up your house to what kind of medical care you can have to how much of your hard earned salary you have to give up so some slacker who refuses to work can have the same lifestyle as you only because it is not fair that you have a great life and the slacker does not.

As far as having big brother security watching every move we make. It would not have made a bit of diffence about what happened on 911. They had the measures in place but allowed those type's of item's (boxcutters) to pass because they were not considered a threat to anyone's life. Now every time I go to a sporting event (Jets Bills football in Buffalo, Rangers Penguins hockey at the Igloo, Mets Pirates baseball at PNC) I get searched for anything and everything. This never happened to me when I lived in NYC prior to 911. Just for the record, I moved from NYC to WPA 2 months to the day of 911. So please do not tell me that a big brother security system would have kept my hometown safe on that horrific day.

Smokey Bear's saying about forest fires works just as well when it comes to keeping out a nanny government. "ONLY YOU!" Just in this case you have to vote.

I just spent my $.02 worth for the next 5 years.

73
Michael
KC2EGL
CW LIVES!!!!

[NI7I]

This past Saturday 3/1/08, NJ's revised cell phone law went into effect. After reading it, it appears that talking not only on a hand held cell phone will earn you a ticket, but it now includes "electronic communication device" (read two way radio here), ham, CB, FRS, etc. Just wait till some trucker or other good buddy is stopped and receives a ticket under this newly revised law, then the screaming will start.

Amateur radio is excluded.

Here's the URL for the text of it http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/PL07/198_.HTM

All the ham's in NJ should print out a copy and highlight the part about amateur radio, keep it in your car with your registration and insurance card and a copy of your FCC ticket too.

Even if you don't live in NJ, you never know when you might drive through the fine police state of the People's Republic of NJ and some over zealous uniform spot's you with one hand on the wheel and the other holding a mike to your rig.

73
Ray
Curious as to why Ham radio should be excluded. Are hams that much better at doing 3 things at once than any other person? I think not.. If you have to communicate via any of these electronic means, pull over. The life you save may be mine.

73
Lee
NI7I

[VE3ID]

Curious as to why Ham radio should be excluded. Are hams that much better at doing 3 things at once than any other person? I think not.. If you have to communicate via any of these electronic means, pull over. The life you save may be mine.

73
Lee
NI7I


Well, it is difficult for me to give up something I have been doing nay these 37 years over a stretch of a million kilometres. But of course it would be tempting fate to dwell on that!

[K4JF]

"And perhaps all police officers of every state, county, city, village and town could be taught and trained about the laws, so that the citizens don't have to carry copies of the laws around in order to avoid arrest or time educating the officers of the laws they are not aware of. "

THAT.. is what should happen.

[N2INC]

Just hang up and drive.
Stay within the marked lane, maintain the posted speed and operate with due caution and circumspection.
If stopped for a violation, provide the documents requested and be cooperative but not ingratiating.
Accept the citation and contest the charge in court, not at the roadside.
Most likely you are on video/audio in NJ.
or.......
Act like a moron; carry on as the pseudo-intellectual/jailhouse lawyer/look at me I'm a ham radio operator here to save you with my RACES/ARES sticker laden automobile/Gee I wonder why I don't get respect from anyone in the emergency services community/ I can't believe that I just got a ticket in NJ/Unwashed at a hamfest self.
It's all up to you..get it?....Please drive safely.

[k6pij]

California's new Cell phone law doesn't mention use of ham radio or CB just wireless telephones. See the law here http://www.dmv.ca.gov/cellularphonelaws/index.htm

[WA8FOZ]

Bob:

Congratulations on an extremely thoughtful posting.

I can't speak for Spain, but I do know about the UK. .....In the rest of Europe (with which the British do not identify), every resident is registered, and is required to report changes of residency....If the US had had such a system, there would be no crisis of illegal immigration today.

Old Europe has a long experience in dealing with terrorism and criminality. ............

America's "problem" is that it has known very little control and regulation in its young history. It's now coming to maturity. That - as in the case of any growing child - is not to the liking of everybody.

EXACTLY! And maturity is coming, painfully or otherwise.
.....

As I said, get used to it. It's going to get worse. America was once a beacon of freedom.
....

Well, sort of. An awful lot of what people in this country regard as "freedom" is not so much freedom as license. And a lot of the "freedom" that people think they have is illusory. In my profession, I encounter many people who believe that our health care "system" allows them "freedom" to make choices of providers and procedures - except that that their access is so limited that in fact they have no choice at all. Or they believe that they are "free" from rationing of care - yeah, right. One can find this sort of illusion in many other areas of life, I suspect.

Just as long as I can operate mobile HF, I am a free man!;)

73,
Bill

[KI4PEQ]

I am a native New Jerseyan and I resent my state being called a "police state". Not all the country lives in Texas and Montana. Furthermore, I can assure you that if European-type security and control measures had been in place in 2001, 9/11 could never have heppened.

As tough as it might be, get used to it. Welcome to the world - the real one.

73,

Bob HB9ASQ / WA2UPQ

RE: European security. I agree with you, to a point. There was still enough terrorist activity when I lived there even with the increased security. American military personnel were targets. Some times the terrorists succeeded. Rhein-Main Air Base in Germany, and a restaurant frequented by Air Force personnel outside of Madrid, these were two of the places I frequented that were hit by terrorists. Living in Madrid, one always wondered about ETA when a car was parked where it should not have been.

You are right. Not everyone lives in Texas or Montana. But those of us who do not live in New Jersey, New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago don't like the solutions in place in those cities being forced down our throats in the hinterlands. The nanny state doesn't win out in places with a strong sense of individualism. We don't need 55 mph speed limits, extensive gun control, and goody goody legislators monitoriing our every move with cameras "for our own good"

[KI4PEQ]

"And perhaps all police officers of every state, county, city, village and town could be taught and trained about the laws, so that the citizens don't have to carry copies of the laws around in order to avoid arrest or time educating the officers of the laws they are not aware of. "

THAT.. is what should happen.

Just ask those citizens of Louisiana who, after Katrina, were subjected to the interpretations of other state's laws instead of Louisiana law by officers of the California Highway Patrol, the New Jersey State Police, and other outside agencies. Those officers insisted that persons were not allowed to possess handguns, rifles, and shotguns without a government permit. Wrong answer. But try arguing with someone trained to use a loaded sidearm.

[KA5LQJ]

:eek:

I think I'll just stay home. Then have my groceries deiliverd to me so I never have to leave. I'd have all the comforts of home, would be on my own property. I wouldn't have to buy gasoline, have car insurance and have to put up with idiots on cell 'phones. Then, I could HAM as I please. :p :D

Respectfully,
73,

Don/KA5LQJ

Opinions are like armpits.... everybody has at least two and the both stink, LOL!

[kc2muy]

The New Jersey cell phone law states that amateur radio is not included in this usage ban.

[wb9jtk]

is an Amateur Radio modified to operate on the CB band!"

Don't try that excuse, as that is admitting to breaking the law.

While driving in N.J. keep a copy of the law that shows the exemption and and a copy of your FCC ticket too


It is already a requirement that you must have a copy of you amateur radio license with you any time you operate, whether it is your handheld or mobile rig or out camping with your QRP rig.

[k5co]

If that is true, then should it not also apply to police officers?

Is there any justification to make an exception for them, and if so, could that same reasoning ever apply to a Ham Radio operator?

I WAS CERTAIN THAT SOME DOPE WOULD IMMEDIATELY COME UP WITH THAT REMARK. Most car accidents involving officers DO include talking on the radio at the time.

[KA0SPM]

We are all suffering from the "there autta be a law" syndrome. Be careful what you wish for you just might get it. Whats next guys Outlawing Code because all cannot use it and it hurts feelings. The lawmakers in NJ have responded to people like you and me crying that cell phone use in a car has to be unsafe. Other states are looking at it and are saying we need a law like that.

When has anyone looked at our goofy laws and said that law did not work lets get rid of it. Especially traffic laws. There are too many laws to enforce and if they could possibly enforce them all, we would get up in arms about it. Maybe its time for that to happen.

[W5HTW]

Don't try that excuse, as that is admitting to breaking the law.

While driving in N.J. keep a copy of the law that shows the exemption and

It is already a requirement that you must have a copy of you amateur radio license with you any time you operate, whether it is your handheld or mobile rig or out camping with your QRP rig.

Just remember -- the FCC exemption has absolutely ZERO to do with safe driving or the use of a radio while the vehicle is in motion. The NJ exemption does. It specifically exempts amateur radio. So that is the one you want, not the FCC one. And it is only good in NJ.

[nc8x]

How about a law prohibiting girls from driving and putting on make up , or using a cordless shaver for the guys .Or eating that Big Mac , and this list could go on forever But honestly we don’t need more new laws, we just need to enforce the ones we already have. Text messaging is a real problem, how about if the phones built in gps determines you are moving it disables the text function? Or if you are moving the phone only allows calls to be made to 911. And incoming calls roll right to voice mail . Just a few tweaks to the phone hardware and software would make the need for a bunch of silly laws that are mostly un-enforceable un-needed.

[KE4IKY]

Text messaging is a real problem, how about if the phones built in gps determines you are moving it disables the text function? Or if you are moving the phone only allows calls to be made to 911. And incoming calls roll right to voice mail . Just a few tweaks to the phone hardware and software would make the need for a bunch of silly laws that are mostly un-enforceable un-needed.

Unless of course you are on a bus or are a passenger in a car.


I'm not understanding what everyone complaint is about this. Ham radio is exempted and you can still use a cell phone with a handsfree device, what is the problem?


for a state list of these laws for cell phones try this.

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/cellphone_laws.html

Joel

[KE4IKY]

Although I didn't find a current list, the ARRL has this.

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2007/02/13/103/?nc=1

for those considering traveling.
Joel

[kc0tks]

And perhaps all police officers of every state, county, city, village and town could be taught and trained about the laws, so that the citizens don't have to carry copies of the laws around in order to avoid arrest or time educating the officers of the laws they are not aware of.

The laws today are not drafted to protect the people. They are drafted to generate revenue.

Police officers are only concerned with the things that bring about guilty pleas, not with the things that ARE legal. Legal or not is for a judge to decide. Unfortunately, the old "guilty until proven innocent" adage is alive and well today. Most people with such a ticket would reason that 'it will cost $1000 for a lawyer to get out of this $50 ticket' so they do not assert their rights. The cops know this all too well. Personally, I'd pay $5000 to be found innocent just on principal.

We're quickly losing our freedoms and our country to indifference. Time to wake up.

[AC7EL]

I am not arguing this issue, just saying it would be nice if WE had a copy of the state laws, as you all know there are some very "creative" interpretations of laws every day..

Might not be much help on the Barney Phife types out there, BUT having a copy of the law might help when you have your day in court..


Cops apply "creative interpretation" all the time. Here's an example: In Nevada it is legal to carry a hand gun openly, in a holster or tucked into your belt, on the street and in any public building except for court rooms and schools. No permit needed. A guy went into the state DMV office carrying his gun openly. Perfectly legal. The clerk in the DMV called the sheriff's office to complain. Two deputies arrived. The man explained to them that he was acting legally, which the deputies confirmed by checking with head-quarters. They asked him if the gun was loaded. He said yes. So they charged him with bringing explosives (gun powder) into a government office. The judge threw it out of court.

[WB1GOT]

Just like to point out that the link is to the legislation and not the law:
TITLE 39 MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC REGULATION

39:4-97.3 Use of wireless telephone, electronic communication device in moving vehicle; definitions; enforcement.

1. a. The use of a wireless telephone or electronic communication device by an operator of a moving motor vehicle on a public road or highway shall be unlawful except when the telephone is a hands-free wireless telephone or the electronic communication device is used hands-free, provided that its placement does not interfere with the operation of federally required safety equipment and the operator exercises a high degree of caution in the operation of the motor vehicle. For the purposes of this section, an "electronic communication device" shall not include an amateur radio.

b.The operator of a motor vehicle may use a hand-held wireless telephone while driving with one hand on the steering wheel only if:

(1)The operator has reason to fear for his life or safety, or believes that a criminal act may be perpetrated against himself or another person; or

(2)The operator is using the telephone to report to appropriate authorities a fire, a traffic accident, a serious road hazard or medical or hazardous materials emergency, or to report the operator of another motor vehicle who is driving in a reckless, careless or otherwise unsafe manner or who appears to be driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs. A hand-held wireless telephone user's telephone records or the testimony or written statements from appropriate authorities receiving such calls shall be deemed sufficient evidence of the existence of all lawful calls made under this paragraph.

As used in this act, "hands-free wireless telephone" means a mobile telephone that has an internal feature or function, or that is equipped with an attachment or addition, whether or not permanently part of such mobile telephone, by which a user engages in a conversation without the use of either hand; provided, however, this definition shall not preclude the use of either hand to activate, deactivate, or initiate a function of the telephone.

"Use" of a wireless telephone or electronic communication device shall include, but not be limited to, talking or listening to another person on the telephone, text messaging, or sending an electronic message via the wireless telephone or electronic communication device.

c.(Deleted by amendment, P.L.2007, c.198).

d.A person who violates this section shall be fined $100.

e.No motor vehicle points or automobile insurance eligibility points pursuant to section 26 of P.L.1990, c.8 (C.17:33B-14) shall be assessed for this offense.

f.The Chief Administrator of the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission shall develop and undertake a program to notify and inform the public as to the provisions of this act.

g.Whenever this section is used as an alternative offense in a plea agreement to any other offense in Title 39 of the Revised Statutes that would result in the assessment of motor vehicle points, the penalty shall be the same as the penalty for a violation of section 1 of P.L.2000, c.75 (C.39:4-97.2), including the surcharge imposed pursuant to subsection f. of that section, and a conviction under this section shall be considered a conviction under section 1 of P.L.2000, c.75 (C.39:4-97.2) for the purpose of determining subsequent enhanced penalties under that section. (L.2003, c.310, s.1; amended 2007, c.198, s.1.)

39:4-97.4 Inapplicability of act to certain officials.

2.The prohibitions set forth in this act shall not be applicable to any of the following persons while in the actual performance of their official duties: a law enforcement officer; a member of a paid, part-paid, or volunteer fire department or company; or an operator of an authorized emergency vehicle. (L.2003,c.310,s.2.)

39:4-97.5 Supersedure, preemption of local ordinances.

3.This act supersedes and preempts all ordinances of any county or municipality with regard to the use of a wireless telephone or electronic communication device by an operator of a motor vehicle. (L.2003, c.310, s.3; amended 2007, c.198, s.2.)

[kk7ue]

Laws like this are drafted because people are generally stupid.

So am I for wasting 20 minutes of my life reading and responding to this tripe. Damn! :eek:

Just another reason to dislike another east coast dung pile. :D

[K4JF]

[QUOTE=wb9jtk;1156044]Don't try that excuse, as that is admitting to breaking the law.

And breaking a federal law, at that!

[KB5DRJ]

You guys sure do put on a great discussion. Brightens up an otherwise dull, snowy, rainy, freezing day. :)

David KB5DRJ

[KD8HMO]

I am an OTR truck Driver, and a General Class. I realize the importance of being safe on the road in a rig as well as a 4 wheeler etc... Talking on the cell phone while driving an 18 wheeler is very distracting, and dangerous. Using a hands free device is, in my opinion with explanation, much safer than holding a phone to your ear. Holding the phone to your ear while operating a CMV, (Commercial Vehicle), you lose control of the vehicle. Let's face it, how the hell can you shift, steer, and utilize a turn signal handle with 1 hand? Some claim they can do it, but I sure wouldn't. Most states are passing laws making it Illegal to operate a cell phone with or without a handsfree device in a commercial vehicle or any vehicle for that matter. So if we have a hands free kit attatched to our phone, and carrying on a conversation while in motion, I see no difference between having a passenger in the other seat and talking with them? Do you? So the law in a round about way is saying you have to drive and SHUT UP!!!!... You can drive the hell outta your car, or drive your work vehicle, but if your moving you either have to shut up, or pull over and place your call. For those of you whom have never driven in Jersey..... well I must say, if everyone who placed a call would pull over on the birm and place a call, the state would have to pave another lane for that purpose, and the traffic jams would cease.

I also wanted to note that MANY MANY times, and Jersey Included.... I have passed state troopers, and local police passing me in my rig with a cell phone stuck to their ear. Often, a couple friends of mine who drive, and I have thought of installing cameras in our rigs, and filming such incidents, and sending the film to the particular precinct or police barracks and saying" Hmmm I wonder why we can't do this"?

As for Ham Radio/CB, I would love for a policeman to write me a ticket for lifting my microphone. (I don't use a CB unless I need to at shippers or receivers or a rare occaision to find out traffic jam info) I would explain to that officer the importance of communications as an Amateur Radio Operator and having the capabilities of passing emergency traffic in the time of need. Oh I am sure he would smile and say sign here, as all DOT and police entities love the revenue thay can gain from the trucking industry, but I sure would fight it, and damn sure would make a NATIONAL SPECTICLE of that particular police force. Does this country really understand how important we Hams can be?????? I already know the answer... NO, and do they care? YES in time of need and we come out of the woodwork to help when no one else will, they smile and pat us on the back.....

OK I have said my piece on this.

KB3AFZ
Randy
www.forestcountyarc.com

Im a 13 yr semi driver and a general too. I see cops using cellphones and radios while on the move all the time. NOW, in my area they are all getting those laptop computers that sit right in front of them when they drive and they get dispatches, messages etc right while they are going down the road. If I ever get a ticket around here, I will have that cops boss called into court as a witness and he can tell the court why my cb or ham microphone is dangerous to use while driving but his mic, phone and laptop computer are not...

[N2JBE]

Unless of course you are on a bus or are a passenger in a car.


Or simply walking down the street.

[w6em]

Im a 13 yr semi driver and a general too. I see cops using cellphones and radios while on the move all the time. NOW, in my area they are all getting those laptop computers that sit right in front of them when they drive and they get dispatches, messages etc right while they are going down the road. If I ever get a ticket around here, I will have that cops boss called into court as a witness and he can tell the court why my cb or ham microphone is dangerous to use while driving but his mic, phone and laptop computer are not...

Things are looking up in "joy-see" (local pronunciation). I wonder why they still call it the "Garden State."

Ever hear of RHIP? (Rank Has Its Privilege) Cops are above the law. Haven't you learned that by now? Plus, it will cost you plenty to fight it out in court. Say, between $5K and $10K for a decent attorney. Then, once you're finished, do you think the state/county/city will pay your attorney's fees? Think again.

Just take your medicine (i.e., pay the fine) and let them have their new revenue stream.

Here in Alabama, if you are stopped and can't immediately produce your proof of insurance card, you are issued a citation. Even though the state law says that if you are/were insured at the time of the citation and produce it later, you are innocent of the claim of driving without insurance/proof of insurance.

Guess what? They won't dismiss the ticket and the judge will still make you pay, even though you are innocent, $150 in "court costs" to be found innocent. Good 'ole Southern Justice is still at work. If you're innocent, you're still fined.......

There's not much you can do, folks. Its all about forcing you to pay to support the "system." (Judges, DAs, etc.) And, I thought taxes were supposed to do that.

If you want to make an example out of all the cop distractions, do your homework, e.g. take pictures NOW, not after your ticket. Get hold of a local newspaper reporter (or, better yet, somebody from the NY Times or Washington Post) and get them to do an article on "Official DWD" and how there's hardly room for one cop in the front seat of a patrol car with all the gear in the way.

Also, while we lived in Florida, I saw plenty of LEO cars with so much dark tint on the windows, even in bright sunlight you couldn't see anything in the car, let alone the driver. So, when darkness falls, how can the LEO adequately see out of the vehicle in all directions? Short answer: He or she can't.



73.

[K4JF]

........Also, while we lived in Florida, I saw plenty of LEO cars with so much dark tint on the windows, even in bright sunlight you couldn't see anything in the car, let alone the driver. So, when darkness falls, how can the LEO adequately see out of the vehicle in all directions? Short answer: He or she can't.73.

That also insures that you can't see in to determine if that really IS a legitimate, uniformed, LEO. So if you encounter that, don't stop. Drive to the nearest police station while talking to the 911 op on your cellphone. Especially if you are of the feminine persuasion.

[wa2upq]

[QUOTE=w6em: Things are looking up in "joy-see" (local pronunciation). I wonder why they still call it the "Garden State."

I'm sick and tired of this stereotype depiction of New Jersey. The cited pronunciation is only found along the Hudson River around Jersey Ciry and Hoboken, and maybe a few miles west of there. I grew up in Hawthorne, 13 miles west of NYC, and we say New JERSEY, as most everybody else in the state. And if you really knew NJ, you'd understand why it is still the Garden State. There's more to New Jersey than the Turnpike and Route 17.

Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ

[KB1PLB]

If you are driving in traffic and chatting on you little toy radios, you're an idiot. Don't give me that stuff about being under control; your vehicle has a distracted driver that is also stupid.
If you have a call to make, pull off the road. :eek:

Couldn't agree with you more.

I walk almost everywhere I go and it is close to once a week I almost get hit by someone on a cell phone. I obey the laws and use crosswalks... but most of the time I am half way across the intersection when someone comes flying around the corner with their head cocked cell phone on and jabbing away. I have also noticed its easy to tell when someone is on their cell on the highway, slowing down, speeding up and weaving from not paying attention. :mad:

[K1CJS]

It is already a requirement that you must have a copy of you amateur radio license with you any time you operate, whether it is your handheld or mobile rig or out camping with your QRP rig.

Sorry, but you are wrong there--it USED TO BE a requirement. Today, all that is needed is to make sure you are listed in the ULS database and you're operating in the right parts of the bands for that listed license.

[K1CJS]

Just another reason to dislike another east coast dung pile. :D

Hey! What about the weat coast sewers! :D

[K1CJS]

I'm sick and tired of this stereotype depiction of New Jersey. The cited pronunciation is only found along the Hudson River around Jersey Ciry and Hoboken, and maybe a few miles west of there. I grew up in Hawthorne, 13 miles west of NYC, and we say New JERSEY, as most everybody else in the state. And if you really knew NJ, you'd understand why it is still the Garden State. There's more to New Jersey than the Turnpike and Route 17.

Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ

Oh, for crying out loud, GET OVER IT! There may be more to New Jersey than just the turnpike and Route 17, BUT NOT MUCH! And this is coming from a resident of TAXACHUSETTS!! So there.... :D

[w6em]

Originally Posted by wa2upq
I'm sick and tired of this stereotype depiction of New Jersey. The cited pronunciation is only found along the Hudson River around Jersey Ciry and Hoboken, and maybe a few miles west of there. I grew up in Hawthorne, 13 miles west of NYC, and we say New JERSEY, as most everybody else in the state. And if you really knew NJ, you'd understand why it is still the Garden State. There's more to New Jersey than the Turnpike and Route 17.

Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ

Oh, for crying out loud, GET OVER IT! There may be more to New Jersey than just the turnpike and Route 17, BUT NOT MUCH! And this is coming from a resident of TAXACHUSETTS!! So there.... :D

Oh, "JoySee!! Or, more aptly, for those that live there: See Joy. Especially in this new maneuver to extract monies for the proletariat.

Well, I seem to recall now a friend from Joy See saying that another friend's real estate tax on his $125,000 NJ abode was $13,000 per year. Now, I would bet that even in Taxachusetts, the taxes aren't that bad. A "Joy to See." :D

There is one good thing that came down South from JoySee, though. Jersey Mike's Subs. Great sandwiches.

All kidding aside, NJ hams have my sympathy with respect to this written monster.

If I were a ham in NJ, I'd darn well make sure that if I wanted to mobile it, I'd have call plates. Then, if the cop stops you, he doesn't have to grill you for proof of your license.

[K3RGG]

First the good news, I moved out of New Jersey when I was 6 years old.
The bad news. I moved to the Peoples Republic of Maryland.
O'Malley won't outlaw cellphones, He will just tax them.

[w1lvt]

[QUOTE=w6em: Things are looking up in "joy-see" (local pronunciation). I wonder why they still call it the "Garden State."

I'm sick and tired of this stereotype depiction of New Jersey. The cited pronunciation is only found along the Hudson River around Jersey Ciry and Hoboken, and maybe a few miles west of there. I grew up in Hawthorne, 13 miles west of NYC, and we say New JERSEY, as most everybody else in the state. And if you really knew NJ, you'd understand why it is still the Garden State. There's more to New Jersey than the Turnpike and Route 17.

Bob HB9ASQ/WA2UPQ

Bob is absolutely right. I spent ten years living in New JERSEY and once you get below the industrialized northern rim, it is one of the most beautiful of states. I've lived all over this country and in Europe - I currenly live in Vermont - but the one place I would love to move back to is New Jersey.

I guess no matter what New Jersey or other states will do, the trash-talking and infantilism on this board will never cease.

[kc2egl]

Or simply walking down the street.
In New York City it is illeagal to talk on a cell phone or text message while crossing the street. You must put the call on hold before you can cross the street anymore. Talk about going a bit far.

[KB2SEO]

This past Saturday 3/1/08, NJ's revised cell phone law went into effect. After reading it, it appears that talking not only on a hand held cell phone will earn you a ticket, but it now includes "electronic communication device" (read two way radio here), ham, CB, FRS, etc. Just wait till some trucker or other good buddy is stopped and receives a ticket under this newly revised law, then the screaming will start.

Amateur radio is excluded.

Here's the URL for the text of it http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/PL07/198_.HTM

All the ham's in NJ should print out a copy and highlight the part about amateur radio, keep it in your car with your registration and insurance card and a copy of your FCC ticket too.

Even if you don't live in NJ, you never know when you might drive through the fine police state of the People's Republic of NJ and some over zealous uniform spot's you with one hand on the wheel and the other holding a mike to your rig.

73
Ray

Hi Folks,

As a Former Residentand Member of the NJ Law Enforcement community, Please keep in mind this was a direct result of the Ignorant, Morons who drove like you did not matter. The Soccer mom with 5 screaming brats who is calling ahead for Pizza, The SOB from NYC or North Jersey, Cell in one hand, the NY post in the other, steering with his knee, trying to get to the Summer house in Barnegat on the GSP at 80 MPH.the Kid who gabs on the phone, Stomping the foot down for the 9 feet that the traffic just moved who slams into the Soccar mom, who in turn hits GAbby in his Beemer- They all SUE. YOU LOSE.

As tight as traffic, space and tempers are stretched along the roads in NJ, It's no wonder the socialist Govenor and imbeciles from the State senate and house went too far again. Stopping to use the cellphone is grweat, Get the jerk off the road while he is on the phone is brilliant, But the 2 way radios are not anything like these dorks. What I CAN tell you is, the Police in NJ will not bother a HAM. If you are Out of state, or otherwise. It really does make any sense to. IF the driver is trying to get that "Official look" to his car: You know the One- Acronym signs of all descriptions- Cops know what that deal is. YOU WILL BE CHECKED OUT, On the air or not.

But Resident or passing through? If you are minding your own affairs, Stayingwithin the reasonable expectation of Speed limits(Within 6 mph) and not trying to act like you are something you are not- 99% of the LEO's in the State would not give you a second glace.

I left NJ due to the incredible taxes, the NJ Democrats were Ruining the things that made the Jersey coast my home since my first day. We went from 7000 a year in Property taxes, Where my town's Code enforcement officer would give someone a bad time for having a boat on the Driveway, Or putting up a 30 ft. Mast on the side of the garage for their VHF radio, His wife could hear when he approached in the boat. To a 6 ac Farm like area, NO NEIGHBORS,,No Problems with ANY antenna stuff, and 750 dollars a year in taxes.

This is a Lesson to us ALL: If you don't stand up to the very people you trusted to do the rightthing for you in the congress of your state or the nation, Wewill ALWAYS be on the losing end of these situations. WRITE/CALL/FAX your LAwmakers. Tell them you disagree. tell them you'll support a candidate who WILL support your needs and interests if they wont.

[w6em]

Hi Folks,

As a Former Residentand Member of the NJ Law Enforcement community, Please keep in mind this was a direct result of the Ignorant, Morons who drove like you did not matter. The Soccer mom with 5 screaming brats who is calling ahead for Pizza, The SOB from NYC or North Jersey, Cell in one hand, the NY post in the other, steering with his knee, trying to get to the Summer house in Barnegat on the GSP at 80 MPH.the Kid who gabs on the phone, Stomping the foot down for the 9 feet that the traffic just moved who slams into the Soccar mom, who in turn hits GAbby in his Beemer- They all SUE. YOU LOSE.

As tight as traffic, space and tempers are stretched along the roads in NJ, It's no wonder the socialist Govenor and imbeciles from the State senate and house went too far again. Stopping to use the cellphone is grweat, Get the jerk off the road while he is on the phone is brilliant, But the 2 way radios are not anything like these dorks. What I CAN tell you is, the Police in NJ will not bother a HAM. If you are Out of state, or otherwise. It really does make any sense to. IF the driver is trying to get that "Official look" to his car: You know the One- Acronym signs of all descriptions- Cops know what that deal is. YOU WILL BE CHECKED OUT, On the air or not.

But Resident or passing through? If you are minding your own affairs, Stayingwithin the reasonable expectation of Speed limits(Within 6 mph) and not trying to act like you are something you are not- 99% of the LEO's in the State would not give you a second glace.

I left NJ due to the incredible taxes, the NJ Democrats were Ruining the things that made the Jersey coast my home since my first day. We went from 7000 a year in Property taxes, Where my town's Code enforcement officer would give someone a bad time for having a boat on the Driveway, Or putting up a 30 ft. Mast on the side of the garage for their VHF radio, His wife could hear when he approached in the boat. To a 6 ac Farm like area, NO NEIGHBORS,,No Problems with ANY antenna stuff, and 750 dollars a year in taxes.

This is a Lesson to us ALL: If you don't stand up to the very people you trusted to do the rightthing for you in the congress of your state or the nation, Wewill ALWAYS be on the losing end of these situations. WRITE/CALL/FAX your LAwmakers. Tell them you disagree. tell them you'll support a candidate who WILL support your needs and interests if they wont.

Very well said. And, I apologize for offending folks for my cajolling of the Brooklynized pronunciation of NJ.

Laws, such as the one in question, are passed due to the failure of people to act responsibly. Harming others in the process. There is no city or Interstate freeway in our great country where you won't see what you've described: the distracted driver doing multitasks while "wasting" time driving their vehicles.

And, add to that overzealous insurance companies that want to eliminate all risks of a claim on top of that. They are probably involved in adding "no two way radios" to the law. If DWD is the issue, why not ban smoking in vehicles?

The smoker, who lights up, gets a cell call, and has a manual-shift transmission. That's the example I like to think about. My neighbor who just nailed her new Edge SUV by rear-ending the car in front of her fits that description.....

The situation you describe, with respect to over-zealous government, fits a lot of places. I see from your header that you've found relief in Georgia. We found relief in Alabama. California, where we once resided, wasn't half bad. Oh, yeah, they taxed you up the wazoo as well. Mostly income tax, but property taxes were moving on up. But, 1.25% wasn't bad.

Then, we moved to Florida. Ouch. Almost 2.5% per year property tax, every other kind of tax BUT income tax, but carefully hidden from view. Our insurance on our home just about tripled, and the home was worth about 25% of what our home in CA was. Auto insurance tripled. Why? Hidden state taxes on insurance companies. Our taxes here in Alabama are about one third what they were in Florida on our home. And, its worth about 30%more than our Florida home was.

And when you folks vacation in FL and arrive on a flight and rent a car, you'll get your first Florida welcome: A 25% tax on rental cars at the airport. Of course, if you're a resident or walk in to a downtown car rental location and aren't picked up at the airport, that doesn't apply.

Soon after our move to Florida in mid 2000, along came the city and county code enforcement folks. You can't have an outside structure higher than 32 feet above the crown of the road. You have to have your "backflow preventer" on your water service tested annually ($50 for the certificate). Sound familiar? If the county wasn't bad enough, along came home owner associations empowered by codes and ordinances to enforce county and their own code-like CC&Rs. I couldn't replace the shrubs in my yard without getting an OK. Some even said you can't display anything, including flags. Oh, well, a few courageous hangers of Old Glory took them to court and won. Finally.

We love it here in Alabama. You can choose many places to live here in this state with minimal restrictions on what you can and cannot do with your property. And, the best part: Taxes are realistic and affordable. Not to the point of forcing people off their land for the inability to pay property taxes.

That's not true in Florida or New Jersey.

[w6em]

Hi Folks,

..... IF the driver is trying to get that "Official look" to his car: You know the One- Acronym signs of all descriptions- Cops know what that deal is. YOU WILL BE CHECKED OUT, On the air or not......



Ha. Well, glad that whackers are stopped and checked out in NJ. I saw several in FL while we lived there, and one at a recent hamfest here in AL.

Bought that surplus Crown Vic and put VHF/UHF antennas all over it, dark tinted glass, the whole gambit.

[KE7JFA]

I think banning cell phones while driving is a great thing.
I can't tell you how many times I have avoided accidents because some idiot was blabbing away.
Mythbusters proved that cell phone drivers are distracted and cause more problems than people who don't. It is as equal as drunk driving.

That's what you get from a full duplexing technology but using a ham and having to PTT the mic and driving is A LOT different and safer.

[KE4IKY]

Why is everyone saying that NJ is banning cell phone use in cars, it isn't.

Lot of bitter people here also.

They all SUE. YOU LOSE.

I'm pretty sure NJ has the no-fault thing going on, does that not work anymore?

[kb3afz]

If you are driving in traffic and chatting on you little toy radios, you're an idiot. Don't give me that stuff about being under control; your vehicle has a distracted driver that is also stupid.
If you have a call to make, pull off the road. :eek:

Apparently K5CO you didn't read my paragraph earlier in the replies. So if you can't use a hands free device to talk on your phone, then you can't talk to a passenger, right? It's the same thing no matter how you slice it. Talking in person, or on a radio or a hands free device is the same. Your attention is divided, and your not fully focused on your driving. No one, I mean no one can tel me or anyone else that they have driven a motor vehicle down the road, with maybe the exception of a motorcycle, and not talked. What is the Difference? Give me the difference because I don't see it. I challenge anyone to this one especially K5CO who has the nerve to call his fellow citizens STUPID! I resent that remark, as I am an 18 wheeler driver, and I have yet to allow my communication on hands free devices, or radios interfere with my handling an 18 wheeler. I practice safe following distances, and am constantly watching the 6 sides to my vehicle. Yes there are 6 sides for those of you squinting, and looking oddly at this post. Top Bottom left right front and back. No you can't see the top and bottom and front and back, but you can watch for dangers that could invade that space. that's what we drivers have to do. Most of the, and I say MOST, drivers will pay attention to the driving while communicating, and if in heavy traffic will hang up, or pause the conversation while maneuvering. Oh yes there are those who hold those phones in their hands, and there are those who hold the microphones, and whether it be a 2, 4, 6, or even an 18 wheeler or more, (Michigan trailers have more axles) we all have done or still do. One can do it safely with hands free devices if they use their experience and common sense. Accidents do happen, and they do happen to folks who are distracted by the use of Cell phones and radio devices. Those are your individuals who, by the way, are NOT STUPID! They are Ignorant. Ignorant means, "Without knowledge", in the dictionary you can find this definition. We as individuals who are educated and experienced enough to know the hazards need to educate those who don't know and understand that using your Phone or radio while driving is potentially dangerous if you use it improper. While driving, if your in heavy traffic or inclimate weather, then by all means hang up the phone or the microphone. If you coming to a scheduled stop shortly tell your party or radio contact that you have to go. If they can't allow that, then they have no respect for your safety, and don't talk to them again....LOL I have many driver friends who converse with me on my cell while using hands free kits, and we practice safe communication. Exit coming up? Hey man gotta go I got 2 miles to my get off. CLICK. Hey man traffic is stopped ahead of me, will call ya later. CLICK. It's called COMMON SENSE. NOT STUPIDITY!!!!! So retract your statement like a grown up, and stop calling your fellow man STUPID!!!!!!

Lastly I wanna say that because of the poor souls who have been killed or injured in accidents concerning the use of Mobile devices or radios, we now are faced with these laws. It's not stupidity. It's safety. Jersey sux. I have to admit that. It's another world. If you have ever been there in a 4 wheeler then you know. If you have never driven an 18 wheeler there or anywhere. Well good for you. You really and truly don't want to experience that. EVERY STATE IN THE US SHOULD MAKE EVERYONE PASS A SMALL QUESTION TEST UNDERSTANDING THE VEHICLES WE DRIVERS DRIVE! been saying that for years. the average every day 4 wheeler drive knows nothing about that truck except for it's slow and big. It's a cannon awaiting to go off, and if you cut one off or ride in the blind spots, you have grabbed the rip cord ready to yank it. If you don't pull hard enough for it to explode, then you got lucky, but if you pull that cord, well... I pray for you. Ok, this isn't about driving...

73's all

KB3AFZ

[WA2NTW]

Not the actual text of laws but a compilation of the states and how they
are written: http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/cellphone_laws.html.

I lived in NJ up until 1988 and we had very few issues with people with
microphones in their hands...I think it is just the dumbing down of Americans
in general! Multitasking my .....

[n1jdw]

I don't want to offend anyone from N.J./N.Y., but I grew up in CT., which for all intents and purposes, began to absorb the "socialist" culture of its neighbors to the immediate south. I left the area many years ago for the very reason that many of you are referring to. (Hillary fits right in there!) Anyhow, around 20 years ago, I summoned an ambulance to the scene of a car accident, while traveling through the "garbage state." Wouldn't you know, a moron cop threatened to arrest me for being in possession of my 2-meter radio, because it had public service receive only capabilities? If a N.J. cop stops you while innocently excercising your right to operate your amateur rig, I can almost guarantee that they will ticket you, search your vehicle, and then some! To add insult to injury, it is almost 100% certain that the courts and the D.A., will refuse to recognize your Federally protected rights, appropriated by the FCC. This alone is the very reason that we all need to get off our butts and vote to remove these socialist and manipulative politicians from office, and/or prevent their proliferation.

[wa2upq]

Quote: "I don't want to offend anyone from N.J./N.Y... but I grew up in CT., which for all intents and purposes, began to absorb the "socialist" culture of its neighbors to the immediate south.... To add insult to injury, it is almost 100% certain that the courts and the D.A., will refuse to recognize your Federally protected rights, appropriated by the FCC".



I find it fascinating how The Right has traditionally screamed and hollered about “States' Rights”. But when their personal interests are curtailed by a state, they run screaming for protection from “Mama Federal Government”. I think that’s a little hypocritical, isn’t it? And by the way, the same federal government enforces the wearing of seat belts in commercial aviation. See what happens to you if you challenge that! And how about safety glasses or warning vests on the job. Is it your "right" to refuse to use them too? What would be your reaction if surgeons decided they didn't want to scrub-up before an operation? It starts getting silly, just to prove the point.

The fact is, operating a ham station is not a legal “right” but a licensed “privilege”, subject to conditions. As has been pointed out before, this is an issue of driving safety and not of the authority of the FCC to license amateurs. The law is clear: motor vehicle regulation is delegated to the states and not the federal government. And more and more states, as well as other countries, are saying “no” to cell-phoning and driving. As someone else also pointed out, serious research has proved that using hands-on cell phones while driving is even more dangerous than driving under the [excessive] influence of alcohol. Most of us agree that driving under the influence of alcohol [above a certain set limit] is dangerous. So what's the difference?

I’m not against alcohol, nor cell phones. But I am against using cell phones the way I’ve seen them used on the heavily-congested, high-speed roads in New Jersey and elsewhere. I, myself, have used a cell phone while driving in NJ, and had several near misses. So I don't do it any more. We are no longer in the age of the horse and carriage. The population of New Jersey and other regions has skyrocketed - in fact, the state is overpopulated, and the lifestyle has become fast-paced and over-stressed.

Let's stop obcessing over "personal rights” and start thinking of other people. You can call it "socialism" or "liberalism", but I call it just plain human decency - compassion - the basis of every Sunday sermon. Do you honestly believe that elected officials really sit around all day just thinking of ways to spoil your egocentric notion of fun? You probably really do believe that. But in reality, they are elected to address issues that concern the well-being of their collective, respective populations and constituants. That's the way a federalistic democracy works. This is what is meant by those old-fashioned terms “The Common Good” and “The General Welfare”, which are clearly expressed in that raving, Left-wing, wacko manifesto known as The Constitution of the United States, first published in 1787, and borrowed from the teachings of the ancient Greek and Roman wackos who gave us philosophy and the first republic, not to mention Jesus and some other "pinkos" of his time. (Sorry Limbaugh, you've got it all wrong. But who cares about the truth, when you're laughing all the way to your bank. Ignorance is bliss, and you capitalize on it).

There is clear evidence, collected worldwide, that it's dangerous to operate cell-phones while driving in congested areas. And the elected officials have acted accordingly. That's their job. If you don't like the reality of life in New Jersey, then you're free to move elsewhere.

By the way and for what it's worth, here in Europe and many other countries, *hands-free* [headset] cell phone use in motor vehicles is permitted. The same applies to ham radio operation in motor vehicles. I can live with that.

Bob HB9ASQ / WA2UPQ
Born and raised in NJ and proud of it

[w6em]

.... the elected officials have acted accordingly. That's their job. If you don't like the reality of life in New Jersey, then you're free to move elsewhere.

.............. I can live with that.

Bob HB9ASQ / WA2UPQ
Born and raised in NJ and proud of it

Ha. Well, Bob, you were not alive in NJ as you wrote this by your own admission. You must be in New Hampshire. Everyone in NY and NJ are dead by now..... (state motto)

Laws are enacted because common sense and reason fail. (Or, as in the Patriot Act, you're a shotgun-misfiring Corporatist wanting to get the goods on anyone who opposes you.)

Poor Spitzer. Those "taps" will get you every time.

[K4GPS]

The issue at hand is quite simple, what is important to you? Is it your state or is the freedom to do what is reasonable and what you enjoy?

I grew up in NJ and lived there for many years both as an amateur, Sheriff's Deputy and active competitive rifle shooter. The first opportunity I had to move I did and I have never been sorry even 18 years later.

Do I miss a good Bagel, Pizza or the melting pot of various ethnic communities, yes! But I also enjoy lower costs of living, my 30 acres of land, shooting in my back yard when and WHATEVER (supressed and full auto) I want, and can build antennas to my hearts desire without some county or town telling me what I can and can't do just to name a few.

So the bottom line is decide what is important to you, move if needed to support your desires, live the dream and most importantly VOTE TO SUPPORT YOUR RIGHTS! Put up or GET OUT!

Rich