I'm starting to see WHY there's a new forum

[KB9YCO]

Wow, I've been pretty much taking a break on most of the political stuff. I like to debate and exchange ideas but it sure seems like it's gotten nastier around here in the last year or so. More so than I think I've ever seen it and I've been around this site for awhile. I know it's an election year with many issues but when it did become so fashionable to call each other names instead of attacking the issues in question? I know it's fairly common on the internet in general but it sure seems to be at a new low around here. It certainly doesn't add to the debate anyway, it just furthers the polarization while detracting from the issue... oh well, nothing new I suppose. But, is it just me or is getting downright nasty lately?
Examples (without personal credits) to follow:

"What kind of drugs do you take..."
"You're a moron eh?"
"You proud to be a moron?"
"I'm neither a moron, nor a coward. Now p**s off little boy."
"Back away from the crack pipe..."
"Sad little rants, thought up by sad little minds..."
"...this callous stupidity of yours..."
"...you are... without a brain..."
"Do you ever think for yourself...?"
"Your comments... are incoherent and make... no sense... You don't have a clue... you can't think rationally..."
"You really are an idiot..."
"...probably the dumbest comments I've read, you must be completly stupid..."
"...not surprised at what a moron you are..."
"...most idiots like you..."
"I'm scared for your children... if you're this stupid..."

Those are just the few I've found that are more recent posts, I'm sure if I went back a little further I'd find more. What ever happened to attacking the message and not the messenger? I can understand that it's frustrating, especially when it comes to politics and people are worried about troubled times, but I can't understand why it always has to come down to insults. Not only that but does anyone really think that insulting the person you're "discussing" something with will actually help to convince them that you're right?
I guess I'm living in a dreamworld to think that people might actually discuss the issue instead of just sniping at one another. Whatever, it's always entertaining, just leaves a bit of a bad taste lately, more so than I think I've ever seen it.
Sorry, just an observation. Carry on my wayward sons...

[n2nh]

I'm starting to see WHY there's a new forum

That's a fallacy. There are plenty of Politics in Ragchew.

Politics has always been nasty here. You just never noticed. I take it you were a member of the loyal order here? It's more than apparent that you never got called a traitor or a communist or an atheist or told you should be shot in the back and eaten by a bear, or that your family should die (numerous times on that last one). That you were never told to move to France, or "Communist" Russia or Iraq. That you were never told you should be kidnapped and sent to Gitmo. That you were a coward.

This is nothing new. The difference is that for some people their little world is going to change in a way they don't like. All the pundits they listen to are going the way of the Dodo. And that idea is making them even nastier. It means America is sick of the years of failure and is about to excise the cancer.

[k0ews]

Good point. I barely come here anymore myself for many of the same reasons. I guess if I want to see people call each other names and run each other down in a never-ending display of personal attacks, and name calling I drop by, but honestly, it's not any to often lately. (about often enough to see a train wreck.) Even the other forums on this site have lost their appeal to me, althought the callbook and the Q&A forum have some value. A lot of the posters that made this site fun are now also gone, and it's evolved into what used to be a pretty entertaining site to what is now; an online pissing contest.
It was never my intention in visiting this site to see people fight with, or insult one another. I wonder how many of the folks who made the above comments would ever dare to say them in person?

[KB9YCO]

That's a fallacy. There are plenty of Politics in Ragchew.

Politics has always been nasty here. You just never noticed. I take it you were a member of the loyal order here? It's more than apparent that you never got called a traitor or a communist or an atheist or told you should be shot in the back and eaten by a bear, or that your family should die (numerous times on that last one). That you were never told to move to France, or "Communist" Russia or Iraq. That you were never told you should be kidnapped and sent to Gitmo. That you were a coward.

This is nothing new. The difference is that for some people their little world is going to change in a way they don't like. All the pundits they listen to are going the way of the Dodo. And that idea is making them even nastier. It means America is sick of the years of failure and is about to excise the cancer.

I don't see too much of politics in Rag Chew lately, though there are of course still those certain topics that people get worked up about. And, believe me I've noticed, I've been around this site for a number of years now, it just seems like it's been worse than usual lately. I've been called many of those things you mentioned, a couple times even worse, the difference is that I don't react with more insults (saying that you or your family should die and so on should not be tolerated, and I would imagine if pointed out probably wouldn't be, I would hope.) Something really veiled about how perhaps their reply says more about them then I need to, but that's usually as far as I go. There have been a few minor things maybe only slightly worse, and as I said in my initial post it isn't anything new, it just seems like it's gotten stronger, a little more hateful and directly insulting as opposed to casting aspersions about character and so on. Again, I'm sure it's frustrating, especially when there are idiotic and downright mean-spirited comments like the ones that you've mentioned; my point was that it seems like it's been ratcheting up lately, more so than in the past. It was just an observation.
And EWS, I agree with you, it used to seem like it was just a good spirited debate even if there was some strong disagreement; now it seems like more vitriol and less dabate. Maybe I'm just here on a bad day, I haven't been around online much lately so who knows. Again, it was just an observation.

[KG4JYD]

UP YOURS!


Oh sorry... I was just playing along in the spirit of all things Internet + politics :p

[KB9YCO]

UP YOURS!


Oh sorry... I was just playing along in the spirit of all things Internet + politics :p



Same to you but more of it!!! Heheh, for whatever that's worth! (Thanks, for playing, I feel like I really fit in now!)

[N9MOQ]

...it sure seems like it's gotten nastier around here in the last year or so.

But, is it just me or is getting downright nasty lately?
Examples (without personal credits) to follow:

[b]"What kind of drugs do you take..."
"You're a moron eh?"
"You proud to be a moron?"
"I'm neither a moron, nor a coward. Now p**s off little boy."
"Back away from the crack pipe..."
"Sad little rants, thought up by sad little minds..."
"...this callous stupidity of yours..."
"...you are... without a brain..."
"Do you ever think for yourself...?"
"Your comments... are incoherent and make... no sense... You don't have a clue... you can't think rationally..."
"You really are an idiot..."
"...probably the dumbest comments I've read, you must be completly stupid..."
"...not surprised at what a moron you are..."
"...most idiots like you..."
"I'm scared for your children... if you're this stupid..."...

I can proudly say that you didn't find, and won't find any comments like those from me. But you are right, and I am surprised that those people are allowed to continue posting here. Then again, perhaps if one was banned for that behavior, how many people would be left here?

However, you will notice that usually in every case where one person makes the comments you quoted, they are almost always wrong in the statements they are making in the arguments.

I guess I'm living in a dreamworld to think that people might actually discuss the issue instead of just sniping at one another.

Whatever, it's always entertaining, just leaves a bit of a bad taste lately, more so than I think I've ever seen it.

I don't find it entertaining, I find it sad. But so long as there is no punishment for this type of behavior, humans will continue to be human.

[W3MIV]

...so long as there is no punishment for this type of behavior, humans will continue to be human.

Perfect post for this topic, which at bottom is about diplomacy versus brutal honesty. It would seem that any or all of the execrations, calumnies and animadversions highlighted by Brett could be as well rewarded with adulation and cash awards, and "humans will continue to be human."

So, in light of that simple fact, please permit me to observe that the quoted post must be among the most asinine and doltish observations in the entire internet. No offence intended, of course; merely being keenly frank and seeking to adhere to the more solicitous species of the established mores and traditions of the forum.

:rolleyes:

[K3XR]

What you see, for the most, is the equivalent of a mental flailing of arms resulting from a lack of the ability to present an intelligent response. Don't let the little mutts nipping at heels bother you.

[kc2orw]

What you see, for the most, is the equivalent of a mental flailing of arms resulting from a lack of the ability to present an intelligent response. Don't let the little mutts nipping at heels bother you.
Well when you actually do something more then just post Enquirer quality news stories we usually get to see your true colors. :D

[ac4ut]

I suggested a political forum a couple of years back. I am sure I am not the only one to do so.
I don't mind politics. I just hate politicians.

[kc2orw]

I suggested a political forum a couple of years back. I am sure I am not the only one to do so.
I don't mind politics. I just hate politicians.
I think it is a good idea that way people who get upset over reading opposing viewpoints can continue to live in isolation. However there has been a trend to post stealth political posts in Ragchew which clearly violates the spirit of having a separate forum. I figure that those engaged in that are chickens and just don't want to have to hear the opposing viewpoint. :D

[KD7ZRT]

You must be new here...

[K4GUN]

Nevermind. I just wrote a thoughtful discussion about this, but then realized that the people to whom it should matter will ignore it. Suffice to say that there are some very miserable people here who are very anxious to spread that misery around.

[N9MOQ]

Perfect post for this topic, which at bottom is about diplomacy versus brutal honesty. It would seem that any or all of the execrations, calumnies and animadversions highlighted by Brett could be as well rewarded with adulation and cash awards, and "humans will continue to be human."

So, in light of that simple fact, please permit me to observe that the quoted post must be among the most asinine and doltish observations in the entire internet. No offence intended, of course; merely being keenly frank and seeking to adhere to the more solicitous species of the established mores and traditions of the forum.

The following statement I made, has more than one meaning, depending on who the person is reading it...

...so long as there is no punishment for this type of behavior, humans will continue to be human.

It depends on if you see "humans" and "human" to be complimentary or negative.

[nx6d]

You know, Brett, we've seen a variation of this rant from you on numerous occasions.

I'm not really clear what you think you're trying to accomplish by getting righteously indignant about things you can't control.

Ok, I'll say it. Brett the all knowing is he without sin. All hail Brett!

Is that what you're looking for?

I, like John, get tired of being called a communist, hippie, socialist, coward etc. by a bunch of ill educated inbred morons. So, yes, I'll be hostile in return. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

My ultimate contempt is for those (mostly 4 stations) who toss out the insults and then claim victim status after being challenged. Hey, your opinions aren't gospel, and your labels aren't correct, period. You will get some return fire, period. Stop being little whiny babies by whining about a response.

Now I'm sure some knucklehead will accuse me of being "angry". Read your own posts, people. I can't believe the coded hate speech that shows up on this forum, from the nitwit that thinks "fag" is an appropriate term for gay men, to all the paranoids who think Obama is a muslim.

Get over yourself, Brett.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

Wow, I've been pretty much taking a break on most of the political stuff. I like to debate and exchange ideas but it sure seems like it's gotten nastier around here in the last year or so. More so than I think I've ever seen it and I've been around this site for awhile. I know it's an election year with many issues but when it did become so fashionable to call each other names instead of attacking the issues in question? I know it's fairly common on the internet in general but it sure seems to be at a new low around here. It certainly doesn't add to the debate anyway, it just furthers the polarization while detracting from the issue... oh well, nothing new I suppose. But, is it just me or is getting downright nasty lately?
Examples (without personal credits) to follow:

"What kind of drugs do you take..."
"You're a moron eh?"
"You proud to be a moron?"
"I'm neither a moron, nor a coward. Now p**s off little boy."
"Back away from the crack pipe..."
"Sad little rants, thought up by sad little minds..."
"...this callous stupidity of yours..."
"...you are... without a brain..."
"Do you ever think for yourself...?"
"Your comments... are incoherent and make... no sense... You don't have a clue... you can't think rationally..."
"You really are an idiot..."
"...probably the dumbest comments I've read, you must be completly stupid..."
"...not surprised at what a moron you are..."
"...most idiots like you..."
"I'm scared for your children... if you're this stupid..."

Those are just the few I've found that are more recent posts, I'm sure if I went back a little further I'd find more. What ever happened to attacking the message and not the messenger? I can understand that it's frustrating, especially when it comes to politics and people are worried about troubled times, but I can't understand why it always has to come down to insults. Not only that but does anyone really think that insulting the person you're "discussing" something with will actually help to convince them that you're right?
I guess I'm living in a dreamworld to think that people might actually discuss the issue instead of just sniping at one another. Whatever, it's always entertaining, just leaves a bit of a bad taste lately, more so than I think I've ever seen it.
Sorry, just an observation. Carry on my wayward sons...

[N5NPO]

You know, Brett, we've seen a variation of this rant from you on numerous occasions.

I'm not really clear what you think you're trying to accomplish by getting righteously indignant about things you can't control.

Ok, I'll say it. Brett the all knowing is he without sin. All hail Brett!

Is that what you're looking for?

I, like John, get tired of being called a communist, hippie, socialist, coward etc. by a bunch of ill educated inbred morons. So, yes, I'll be hostile in return. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

My ultimate contempt is for those (mostly 4 stations) who toss out the insults and then claim victim status after being challenged. Hey, your opinions aren't gospel, and your labels aren't correct, period. You will get some return fire, period. Stop being little whiny babies by whining about a response.

Now I'm sure some knucklehead will accuse me of being "angry". Read your own posts, people. I can't believe the coded hate speech that shows up on this forum, from the nitwit that thinks "fag" is an appropriate term for gay men, to all the paranoids who think Obama is a muslim.

Get over yourself, Brett.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

Still no olive branch or attempt at civility from Dave.
Same ol' mean spiritness hate spew.
Lighten up Dave. Life is too short for all the hate.

[nx6d]

Still no olive branch or attempt at civility from Dave.
Same ol' mean spiritness hate spew.
Lighten up Dave. Life is too short for all the hate.

NPO, you are so predictible. You don't even recognize your own hate speech, which is typical.

The only missing was the lame Halliburton reference.

Thanks for proving my point.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

[N5NPO]

NPO, you are so predictible. You don't even recognize your own hate speech, which is typical.

The only missing was the lame Halliburton reference.

Thanks for proving my point.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

EGAD! You are right Dave... I forgot to refernce the Halliburton funded and supported Vast right wing conspiracy too... Thanks...

[ab8ma]

Nevermind. I just wrote a thoughtful discussion about this, but then realized that the people to whom it should matter will ignore it. Suffice to say that there are some very miserable people here who are very anxious to spread that misery around.

Sounds like my work environment :)

[KB9YCO]

You know, Brett, we've seen a variation of this rant from you on numerous occasions.

I'm not really clear what you think you're trying to accomplish by getting righteously indignant about things you can't control.

Ok, I'll say it. Brett the all knowing is he without sin. All hail Brett!

Is that what you're looking for?

I, like John, get tired of being called a communist, hippie, socialist, coward etc. by a bunch of ill educated inbred morons. So, yes, I'll be hostile in return. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

My ultimate contempt is for those (mostly 4 stations) who toss out the insults and then claim victim status after being challenged. Hey, your opinions aren't gospel, and your labels aren't correct, period. You will get some return fire, period. Stop being little whiny babies by whining about a response.

Now I'm sure some knucklehead will accuse me of being "angry". Read your own posts, people. I can't believe the coded hate speech that shows up on this forum, from the nitwit that thinks "fag" is an appropriate term for gay men, to all the paranoids who think Obama is a muslim.

Get over yourself, Brett.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

You've finally figured it out Dave, worship me for I am great and through my greatness you shall find enlightenment!

Now to be serious, I don't think there is any excuse for some of the blatant insults like you've listed, or that I listed initially, and as I've told you before I agree with you but I don't get into all the mudslinging because it goes nowhere and adds nothing. You can't argue with an idiot, it only brings you down to their level. I think if more people stood up against those types of comments as opposed to adding to it it might be a different scenario. The problem is that it continues back and forth to no end, people get more and more mad, etc. A vicious cycle. My comment was about if anyone really thinks that it adds to the discussion of the topic or detract from it. Obviously, I feel it is the latter, but to each their own.

Also, I have never said it bothered me or that I was indignant about it, either in this thread or in the past. I just noticed it was getting worse, what do I care, it doesn't effect me in any way at all, the point you continue to miss. At some point it's all entertainment to me, as is the internet in general, I think this may be an issue of people taking one another way too seriously. In this case you're taking me too seriously. (And I knew, absolutely knew that you would be in on this one since you bitch every time that I ask why people can't debate without insults, it actually predictable at this point, but probably you'll think the same about what I've said.) Again, to each their own, but you can't tell me it hasn't gotten worse, and not just on this site but in general.

In this case, as in the last case where I mentioned something similar to this, I agree with you. All those labels, I remember the numerous "fag" comments, I remember one of our favorite linksters saying all Muslims in America should be locked up, I've seen the comments about how you're a socialist/commie (I've been called the same and worse here, and we are much closer in agreement politically than you may imagine); I think they're asinine and shouldn't be tolerated. That being said I guess it's really up to the management on how they want to handle it, it's not my site but I agree and am amazed at what some people say that goes unnoticed. I suppose that they can't be everywhere and see everything so perhaps more people need to call attention to it when it happens? I don't know since I'm not here enough these days to 'monitor' it, and I'm not sure that I care that much anyway. I give the site a lot of credit for putting up with as much as they do and for free. My point was Dave that if you let it continue in circles you only add to it, but I guess if that's what you want to do then rock on.

Either way Dave, you're missing my point, I'm not taking any moral high road, I've just noticed it's been increasing in intensity and outright hatred and name-calling. Am I wrong? You've been around here a long time as well, are you saying you don't notice it more than in the past? Whatever, my initial post was just me pondering why, no high-horse morality, just wondering when people lost the ability to discuss without getting pissed and insulting and noticing that it's getting worse. (Maybe it is just the election year? Or people are just getting more stupid and intolerant?) Think what you want about me Dave, I don't really care, but you can't tell me there isn't more vitriol around lately. And that is indeed why they've made a separate forum for it, I applaud their efforts to shuffle it off somewhere separately. I just don't get the mentality behind all the childish behavior from a contingent that will remain nameless (and mostly clueless.)

[N9XR]

K3XR Nov 30, 2005 Yes, GW does #love those military uniforms almost as much as the far left,anti-war, hate America first crowd despises them.

K3DE 2005 It is a contradiction in terms for killers to claim any rights -- be they individuals or 'leaders' such as Saddam whose sovereign rights you champion!

AC0H 2005 My goodness, what an amazing load of crap. That's almost worthy of WX7B. The senior Bush's approval rating topped out at 81% AFTER the first gulf war. Yep, it sure did lose him the election. Any more revisionist history to spew?

K3XR 2005 Does this mean that if we have a rapist, going around raping women, that we should not try to track him down because that might upset him, and as a result, he will be committing more rapes?

#If Gore were elected we might be missing more than the Twin Towers. Let's kill as many terrorists as we can in Iraq and not wait for them to show up here.

Are you saying that it is worse now because those left of neocon are standing up for their rights? Is it because those who see others who outright say that they cannot think for themselves rely on every word that Hannity, Savage, and others spoonfeed to them to regurgitate when prompted?

Or is spouting that we should let rapists off is less disgusting that asking someone else to back away from a crack pipe?

[K3XR]

Who let out the little "whine" up dogs, my heels hurt.

[kc2orw]

What some of the poor deluded souls don't get is that it isn't the far left that is going to cost Republicans the election but the moderates or independents. I expect that John McCain may start to cut down on the war rhetoric and seague to something else... anything but the war. The war hawk routine almost guarantees him a lose in the election, particularly any talk of expanding it.

[KB9YCO]

Are you saying that it is worse now because those left of neocon are standing up for their rights? Is it because those who see others who outright say that they cannot think for themselves rely on every word that Hannity, Savage, and others spoonfeed to them to regurgitate when prompted?

Or is spouting that we should let rapists off is less disgusting that asking someone else to back away from a crack pipe?

I'm not sure who you're asking, but if it's me then all I can say is that my initial post had nothing to with political ideology, it was just an observation that things around here seem to be getting more mean-spirited; name-calling and insinuations about people, mostly from people that don't even know the people that they're talking trash about. I'm not saying that it isn't frustrating (to a point though, anyone that takes an internet forum that seriously may have more issues) when someone attacks you or your family/group just because they disagree with you. I think that's BS and again adds nothing useful to a real debate/discussion. It just seemed to me that it's been worse than in the past, even during the last presidential election.

I don't know why anyone is trying to make it seem like I was picking sides or something. Maybe it was the lines that I quoted being from one perceived group or another, I'm not sure since I just found a few random ones and I didn't credit them to anyone. When I first started posting here I was called a commie/socialist/unpatriotic and on and on, just for stating that I was a liberal in the true sense of the word. But it sure didn't seem to be nearly as mean as I've seen lately. Perhaps it's just how upset people are over this particular election, in some cases understandably so with everything going on in the world and in this country. But, again I say that just being a***oles to someone that you disagree with doesn't add anything to the topics in question, certainly isn't going to sway anyone. Just my observations as to why a "political junkie" forum was necessary, apparently people took it more seriously than just a simple observation.

Now that you mention it I am actually glad the extremist conservative agenda is failing and that many of their 'fans' are reaching for anything just to keep themselves afloat. They're definitely overdue for a solid trouncing. It's just too bad that the current extremist president and his political followers have driven the rest of us down with them. So, no, I could care less about the extremist conservative right, I think they're a large part of the problem these days; certainly they've done a nice job of propagandizing everything so much and have probably played a large part in all this polarization and hateful rhetoric. Of course that is politics in general, but every since the Reagan era notched up the meanness their has been this pervasive attitude that if you disagree with them then you support the enemy or are somehow not patriotic. These extremists have perfected the "with us or against us" attitude and have lead much of the polarization that is hurting us all

[N9XR]

I'm not sure who you're asking, but if it's me then all I can say is that my initial post had nothing to with political ideology, it was just an observation that things around here seem to be getting more mean-spirited; name-calling and insinuations about people, mostly from people that don't even know the people that they're talking trash about. I'm not saying that it isn't frustrating (to a point though, anyone that takes an internet forum that seriously may have more issues) when someone attacks you or your family/group just because they disagree with you. I think that's BS and again adds nothing useful to a real debate/discussion. It just seemed to me that it's been worse than in the past, even during the last presidential election.

I don't know why anyone is trying to make it seem like I was picking sides or something. Maybe it was the lines that I quoted being from one perceived group or another, I'm not sure since I just found a few random ones and I didn't credit them to anyone. When I first started posting here I was called a commie/socialist/unpatriotic and on and on, just for stating that I was a liberal in the true sense of the word. But it sure didn't seem to be nearly as mean as I've seen lately. Perhaps it's just how upset people are over this particular election, in some cases understandably so with everything going on in the world and in this country. But, again I say that just being a***oles to someone that you disagree with doesn't add anything to the topics in question, certainly isn't going to sway anyone. Just my observations as to why a "political junkie" forum was necessary, apparently people took it more seriously than just a simple observation.

Now that you mention it I am actually glad the extremist conservative agenda is failing and that many of their 'fans' are reaching for anything just to keep themselves afloat. They're definitely overdue for a solid trouncing. It's just too bad that the current extremist president and his political followers have driven the rest of us down with them. So, no, I could care less about the extremist conservative right, I think they're a large part of the problem these days; certainly they've done a nice job of propagandizing everything so much and have probably played a large part in all this polarization and hateful rhetoric. Of course that is politics in general, but every since the Reagan era notched up the meanness their has been this pervasive attitude that if you disagree with them then you support the enemy or are somehow not patriotic. These extremists have perfected the "with us or against us" attitude and have lead much of the polarization that is hurting us all

To a large part I was responding to your original post and your observation that things were getting worse. My response to that was a comparison to what it was over 2 years ago with what you observe today. I am not saying that name calling is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not saying that insinuations made are good or bad. You have the right to your opinion, but I am unsure where you were going with it other than to say that you think we should abstain from these tactics. My question has to do with what it is that makes it worse than, say over 2 years ago. I attached quotes to compare as well showing personal attacks from back then.

I agree that there should be more civility here than what we have, but I disagree that it is worse than what we have had in years past. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it.

I remember the first post I made here on teh Zed. The attacks were merciless. If anything, it is much more civil to me than what it was seven years ago.

[W3MIV]

I remember the first post I made here on teh Zed. The attacks were merciless. If anything, it is much more civil to me than what it was seven years ago.

We're just setting you up. :p