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KK6FU
02-25-2008, 04:09 AM
The bay area 2/440 repeaters have been experiencing a rash of jamming activities from licensed LIDs and their chicken bander buddies. What is it about jamming that makes a man... (I'm sure they are men, women would have given up and gone shopping by now).....sit around all day waiting to jam someone... I don't get it.

I heard in the UK their OO's are paid and have the power to kick down doors and arrest the morons. I don't know if I want our OO's to have arresting power.... but kicking down doors and confiscating radios sounds reasonable since Riley isn't helping.:o

KB1PRQ
02-25-2008, 04:29 AM
Some people are just dicks ;)

KB3LAZ
02-25-2008, 04:30 AM
We have the same problem in my area all the time.
It just seems that people get a kick out of this sort of thing.
As for why people act like this I do not know.
Maybe they just need to grow up!
73

KI4RVH
02-25-2008, 04:33 AM
We had one here on our local repeater. We just turned up our wattage and kept talking. Even if we couldn't understand the other party we acted like we did. He gave up soon enough. Just don't let them know that they're even causing trouble and they'll get bored. They want a reaction. Just ignore them or go fox hunting if the mood strikes you!

73

Chris

KA8NCR
02-25-2008, 04:37 AM
Three words: doppler direction finding

W6VPS
02-25-2008, 04:53 AM
Unfortunaely Adam Henries are everywhere.
A good reason to see how well simplex really works.
73 - Paul

AI4EP
02-25-2008, 05:00 AM
I fondly remember back in my old CB days, of folks who would play music on the cb channels...I would key up afterwards and say something similar to " gee, if he only had spent just a few more dollars, and bought a better radio, that music might have sounded a lot better "... !!

What does that have to do with the topic of this thread ?


Well, you could modify the part about playing music to jamming a repeater and you might agitate them enough to actually quit and go back to crawling under the bed and thumping on dry cat turds....and some that arent that dry yet.

We uns over here in Alabama dont have folks who intentionally jam repeaters...we dont do childish things like that ( leave that kind of stuff for you California folks to do ) .

We actually TALK with the mike keyed on our repeaters here in Alabama...no music, no sound effects, nothing but our twangy southern accents .

----------------------oh, by the way, our 75 meter 3.965 interference has left the frequency...they found another net to go jam ( bad for them, good for us ) !!

KB9YCO
02-25-2008, 05:06 AM
We had one here on our local repeater. We just turned up our wattage and kept talking. Even if we couldn't understand the other party we acted like we did. He gave up soon enough. Just don't let them know that they're even causing trouble and they'll get bored. They want a reaction. Just ignore them or go fox hunting if the mood strikes you!

73 Chris

Exactly right, I don't know how many times I've preached the same thing. Ignore it and it goes away nine times out of ten. Keep talking and don't acknowledge the fact that you hear anything at all. A vague response to what was said, etc. and usually you can make it seem like everything is normal. Sure, once in awhile there's that really dedicated loser that has all day to spend just waiting by his radio; but, for the most part it is just someone looking for a reaction.
I know at least two repeater owners who have actually given themselves a reputation for freaking out about kerchunking and jamming. Of course everyone knows what happened, now they do it more because they get a reaction!
Also, if you have some people with some time and decent equipment then DF'ing is not only fun, it's rewarding. Most times just the fact that the person knows that they were seen and/or their location is known is enough.
I know ignoring it doesn't work in every case, and I've heard some extreme ones, especially in more populated areas, but for the most part it is prank call mentality and if there is no reaction they will generally move on.

K4AX
02-25-2008, 05:22 AM
Our local ARES group had about 20 guys build direction finding beams made with 3 elements of tape measure material and PVC.

Now we are doing fox hunts as part of the club activity.

That pretty much scares the jammers away hopefully.... at least here in Greensboro N.C.

WA6MHZ
02-25-2008, 03:32 PM
Back in the 80s, the Jammers were the GOOD GUYS here in San Diego! Now that might be hard to believe, but we had (and still have) this repeater known as the 0464 Sand Box! About that time, some OFs took over the repeater and held it hostage, blabbing day and night some of the most Insane, Droll, ear-bleeding nonsense you ever heard. The kingpins ( all silent keys by now) were JumboDumbo Jack, CaCa Cal, And Mister Senility himself, Carmen. Their mentor was the ringleader of them all, Jammer Jimmy. They baited jammers, all ran GREEN BOXes (Super QRO 2 meter amps) and multi antenna arrays with who knows how much ERP to try and out jam the jammers. It was complete bedlam around the clock, and lots of off the air mischief as well. The best prank was when someone sent in a forged FCC 610 asking for a call sign change for Jimmy. Boy, was he hopping mad when a new callsign arrived in the mail!!! A whole radio club was formed just because of this war. It was exciting listenning, just to see what would happen next. Eventually, the OFs passed away and the Jammers returned to normal hams, and the repeater almost went dormant. It is still in use, for normal ham to ham communications, but doesn't have the thirlls and excitement it had during the Jammer Wars of the 80s!

KB9OFM
02-25-2008, 03:42 PM
Some people just have no life,jamming is how they get there kicks.
And they call that fun!!!!!!

K7JEM
02-25-2008, 03:46 PM
Back in the 80s, the Jammers were the GOOD GUYS here in San Diego! Now that might be hard to believe, but we had (and still have) this repeater known as the 0464 Sand Box! About that time, some OFs took over the repeater and held it hostage, blabbing day and night some of the most Insane, Droll, ear-bleeding nonsense you ever heard. The kingpins ( all silent keys by now) were JumboDumbo Jack, CaCa Cal, And Mister Senility himself, Carmen. Their mentor was the ringleader of them all, Jammer Jimmy. They baited jammers, all ran GREEN BOXes (Super QRO 2 meter amps) and multi antenna arrays with who knows how much ERP to try and out jam the jammers. It was complete bedlam around the clock, and lots of off the air mischief as well. The best prank was when someone sent in a forged FCC 610 asking for a call sign change for Jimmy. Boy, was he hopping mad when a new callsign arrived in the mail!!! A whole radio club was formed just because of this war. It was exciting listenning, just to see what would happen next. Eventually, the OFs passed away and the Jammers returned to normal hams, and the repeater almost went dormant. It is still in use, for normal ham to ham communications, but doesn't have the thirlls and excitement it had during the Jammer Wars of the 80s!

Yeah, guys today have no idea of what jamming is really like. Nothing compares to the "repeater wars" of the 70's and 80's.

That 04/64 was a piece of work. We used to eavesdrop on it occasionally from El Paso, Texas, through our remote base network. Was good for late night entertainment.

Joe

KA5PIU
02-25-2008, 05:08 PM
Hello.

The trouble in San Antonio is just as bad.
Somebody crossbands 140 and 440.
The one club, AARO, seems to be the main target.
The amazing thing is that almost everyone KNOWS who it is.
About 6 malcontents.
In Houston, one idiot decided to try and jam this one station.
The gent responded by stealing his electric meter, just plopped the thing out.
Do you have any idea how long it takes to get a meter and socket replaced? or how much it costs?
And, we hams wonder why there is an image problem.

K0RGR
02-25-2008, 06:24 PM
I wonder which repeaters in the Bay Area are getting hit this time around.

As I recall Grizzly Peak has been shut down numerous times due to this.

It only takes one major jerk to wipe out 2 meters over a wide area, particularly when the repeaters are on mountain tops. We used to have groups of people out there with doppler and phase-angle search equipment who could track the offenders down fairly quickly. It's time to reform the posse .

KB2VXA
02-25-2008, 07:12 PM
Repeaters? BOOORRRRING.

KA5PIU
02-25-2008, 07:44 PM
Repeaters? BOOORRRRING.

Hello.

What do you suggest, 146.520?
Guess where a bunch of the jammers hang?
Guess where the VHF side of the crossbanding is in a lot of cases.
In order to do 2 VHF frequencies, one will set his rig to crossband, VHF to UHF.
Another does the same.
In this manner, 2 nitwits can take out 3 frequencies at once.
Creative.
Not very constructive, but creative.

KD6NIG
02-25-2008, 08:01 PM
I still monitor local repeaters mostly for emergency traffic or to give directions if someone needs them. But there are other annoyances out there too, like the guy who doesn't own the repeater but seems to think he should traffic cop it, and some people who once you start talking to them, its sometimes hard to get them to stop....

Simplex works well, and I'd say a lions share of my communication is now on 2m SSB or simplex.

Or packet :)

Repeaters are good if you need the long haul, but if you're talking to someone within 20 miles and you're not in the middle of, say, New York City with buildings on all sides, simplex works perfectly fine. Sure, its not always S9+20, but it works.

:)

W0TKX
02-25-2008, 08:08 PM
Yawn... ;)

It smells, and is actually NotFunny. :eek:

KD8BVS
02-25-2008, 08:10 PM
We had one here on our local repeater. We just turned up our wattage and kept talking. Even if we couldn't understand the other party we acted like we did. He gave up soon enough. Just don't let them know that they're even causing trouble and they'll get bored. They want a reaction. Just ignore them or go fox hunting if the mood strikes you!

73

Chris

We had a guy that did this a lot on our repeater. I live 6 miles away from our repeater, and I just turned my power up to 80 watts to talk right over him. We wound up finding the guy about 20 minutes later. The repeater trustee was on his way home from work and heard it happening, so he decided to do some fox hunting! The guy was stupid enough to keep his mic. keyed for 10 minutes straight so it was very easy to find him. I would have loved to see the reaction on the guys face when our repeater trustee (Jim) showed up at his door.

K8MHZ
02-25-2008, 09:26 PM
I like fox hunting!

So far there have been very few jammers. Fox hunting is very popular around here and we have some good hunters and that is known by the locals.

Actually, we have had more people jamming Central Dispatch than our repeaters.

Anyone sending out a radio signal to cause trouble is just asking to be found.

WA6ITF
02-25-2008, 09:53 PM
If you really want to go back in time try 1968 in New York City. The then brand new WA2SUR repeater came on the air from 70 Pine Street on the chanel pair of 146.13 in and 146.76 out. Within weeks it had a following of about 100 or so early FM'ers -- and one jammer -- who spent all day and all night making "frog noises." It took almost two years and the loan of some sophisticated DFing gear -- sophisticated for that era -- but he was eventually caught. I think he turned out to be one of the control operators tht nobody would have otherwise suspected.

But the bet jamming stories of all happened out here in California from the late 1950's through the mid-1960's on 146.76 Simplex. It was all caught for posterity in a series of articles written by the late Kendall webster Sessions, K6MVH, titled "The Chronicles of .76."

Those guys developed jamming to a pure artform! If you can find a copy of the Chronicles -- do so. You will not believe much of it -- but its all 100% true -- right down to the frequency having its own "secret police" -- the SSSS -- Seven Six Secret Service. I knew Sessions when we were both writers for 73 Magazine and he swore that the "Chronicles" were as he wrote them -- adding that nobody could possibly create anything in fiction that came near the facts regarding 146.76 in SoCal.

de
WA6ITF

WB6MMJ
02-25-2008, 10:26 PM
The bay area 2/440 repeaters have been experiencing a rash of jamming activities from licensed LIDs and their chicken bander buddies. What is it about jamming that makes a man... (I'm sure they are men, women would have given up and gone shopping by now).....sit around all day waiting to jam someone... I don't get it.

I heard in the UK their OO's are paid and have the power to kick down doors and arrest the morons. I don't know if I want our OO's to have arresting power.... but kicking down doors and confiscating radios sounds reasonable since Riley isn't helping.:o

The biggest reason some people "Jam" repeaters is for the attention it gives them when the regular operators of the repeater comment on the Jamming.
That is what the Jammer wants, attention. Don`t give them any attention and they will go somewhere else where they will get that much needed attention.
I owned 3 repeaters years ago and not giving the jammer attention worked very well.

KW7DSP
02-25-2008, 10:33 PM
Back in the 80s, the Jammers were the GOOD GUYS here in San Diego! Now that might be hard to believe,... ... but doesn't have the thirlls and excitement it had during the Jammer Wars of the 80s!

Good Guys? Thrills? you sure you got the right service?

KW7DSP
02-25-2008, 10:39 PM
We had one here on our local repeater. We just turned up our wattage and kept talking. ...


And what did that accomplish? May work on Simplex (maybe) or CB, but I am not sure what it did for you on a repeater or FM, unless you were closer to the repeater receiving antenna.

WB6MMJ
02-25-2008, 10:41 PM
Back in the 80s, the Jammers were the GOOD GUYS here in San Diego! Now that might be hard to believe, but we had (and still have) this repeater known as the 0464 Sand Box! About that time, some OFs took over the repeater and held it hostage, blabbing day and night some of the most Insane, Droll, ear-bleeding nonsense you ever heard. The kingpins ( all silent keys by now) were JumboDumbo Jack, CaCa Cal, And Mister Senility himself, Carmen. Their mentor was the ringleader of them all, Jammer Jimmy. They baited jammers, all ran GREEN BOXes (Super QRO 2 meter amps) and multi antenna arrays with who knows how much ERP to try and out jam the jammers. It was complete bedlam around the clock, and lots of off the air mischief as well. The best prank was when someone sent in a forged FCC 610 asking for a call sign change for Jimmy. Boy, was he hopping mad when a new callsign arrived in the mail!!! A whole radio club was formed just because of this war. It was exciting listenning, just to see what would happen next. Eventually, the OFs passed away and the Jammers returned to normal hams, and the repeater almost went dormant. It is still in use, for normal ham to ham communications, but doesn't have the thirlls and excitement it had during the Jammer Wars of the 80s!

Just where is Jimmy now? That was VCE, right?

KC9JIQ
02-25-2008, 11:08 PM
Yeah, guys today have no idea of what jamming is really like. Nothing compares to the "repeater wars" of the 70's and 80's.

That 04/64 was a piece of work. We used to eavesdrop on it occasionally from El Paso, Texas, through our remote base network. Was good for late night entertainment.

Joe

How about 435? The repeater is the most used, busiest repeater in the USA, and it used to be 24/7 activity, some maculous interference, but legitimate QSO's did occur,Cannot see it getting worse than Jack Gerritsen.

My question is how does the era of Jack Gerritsen compare to the repeater wars of the 80's?

KI4RVH
02-26-2008, 12:09 AM
And what did that accomplish? May work on Simplex (maybe) or CB, but I am not sure what it did for you on a repeater or FM, unless you were closer to the repeater receiving antenna.

It worked just fine. Evidently he was using less power than us. I was running 100 watts. Others were running close to the same. We were using radios with base antennas. My antenna is close to 40 feet up. And the people we couldn't understand we acted like we did. So the guy thought he wasn't doing anything and went away. Haven't you ever heard a double on a repeater and heard one station while the other was wiped out? It sounds terrible but you can still make someone out lots of times.

73

Chris

WA6MHZ
02-26-2008, 12:25 AM
Just where is Jimmy now? That was VCE, right?

Yes, he is a Silent Key

WA6MHZ
02-26-2008, 12:28 AM
How about 435? The repeater is the most used, busiest repeater in the USA, and it used to be 24/7 activity, some maculous interference, but legitimate QSO's did occur,Cannot see it getting worse than Jack Gerritsen.

My question is how does the era of Jack Gerritsen compare to the repeater wars of the 80's?

435 , though I only monitor it when up in the LA area, seems to be considerably toned down now that Riley has scared off most of the misfits. But there was a time not too far back that the language and conversations were what you would expect from a Late night Comedy club! XXX was too easy a rating for it!! They were into this First Amendment stuff that they could say all the 4 letter words they wanted and the FCC couldn't do a thing. But then RILEY came to town, and that was that!

Gerritsen was another matter. He had this hatred for George Bush, and constantly played anti-Bush tapes all day long, from repeater to repeater. Most Jammers try and stay annonymous, but Jack had no problem letting people know who he was. He opennly defied the FCC, more or less MOONING them. Well, he finally was tripped up and last I heard, he was breaking rocks on Hard time! But that Jamming was far far different than the 80s Jammer wars, where jammers were snipers sneaking in between transmissions for momentary comments teasing the OFs.

WB6MMJ
02-26-2008, 01:06 AM
Yes, he is a Silent Key

I didn`t know he had passed away. Sorry to hear that. Thank you for replying.
By they way, I was in the middle of all that stuff back then. I learned allot from it also.
I just looked up Jim`s old call. Interesting! It came up with "Secret underground orgnanization of amateur radio"
What the heck?

W6TMI
02-26-2008, 06:02 AM
435 , though I only monitor it when up in the LA area, seems to be considerably toned down now that Riley has scared off most of the misfits. But there was a time not too far back that the language and conversations were what you would expect from a Late night Comedy club! XXX was too easy a rating for it!! They were into this First Amendment stuff that they could say all the 4 letter words they wanted and the FCC couldn't do a thing. But then RILEY came to town, and that was that!

Gerritsen was another matter. He had this hatred for George Bush, and constantly played anti-Bush tapes all day long, from repeater to repeater. Most Jammers try and stay annonymous, but Jack had no problem letting people know who he was. He opennly defied the FCC, more or less MOONING them. Well, he finally was tripped up and last I heard, he was breaking rocks on Hard time! But that Jamming was far far different than the 80s Jammer wars, where jammers were snipers sneaking in between transmissions for momentary comments teasing the OFs.

It's still fairly colorful, I was listening to it while I was reading the other night, and it's all legal, though they certainly push the envelope, and on any other machine would not be acceptable. I would say about R rated. This was late at night as well.. About the same time you would hear such on 75.

AI4EP
02-26-2008, 03:53 PM
...glad we over here in Alabama dont have to put up with such childish antics on our 2 meter repeaters.

You folks should be ashamed at putting up with it for 24 hours, much less weeks / months & years.

AI4EP
02-26-2008, 09:32 PM
///I must have accedently inspired some one to not post and to actually DO something, due to the lack of intelligent responses...or ANY response, for that matter.

KI4RVH
02-26-2008, 10:14 PM
///I must have accedently inspired some one to not post and to actually DO something, due to the lack of intelligent responses...or ANY response, for that matter.

Maybe people are at work or you are on their ignore list. Who knows?

73

Chris

AI4EP
02-26-2008, 10:21 PM
that IGNORE LIST can work 2 ways.

KF6VYH
06-28-2009, 08:16 PM
Lets understand one thing, the FCC does not care about jamming on ham radio. Just look at the enforcement logs on the FCC web site http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/Welcome.html . The only thing the FCC cares about is chick band idiots and power companies with RFI problems.

KB7IFZ
06-28-2009, 08:28 PM
Exactly right, I don't know how many times I've preached the same thing. Ignore it and it goes away nine times out of ten. Keep talking and don't acknowledge the fact that you hear anything at all. A vague response to what was said, etc. and usually you can make it seem like everything is normal. Sure, once in awhile there's that really dedicated loser that has all day to spend just waiting by his radio; but, for the most part it is just someone looking for a reaction.
I know at least two repeater owners who have actually given themselves a reputation for freaking out about kerchunking and jamming. Of course everyone knows what happened, now they do it more because they get a reaction!
Also, if you have some people with some time and decent equipment then DF'ing is not only fun, it's rewarding. Most times just the fact that the person knows that they were seen and/or their location is known is enough.
I know ignoring it doesn't work in every case, and I've heard some extreme ones, especially in more populated areas, but for the most part it is prank call mentality and if there is no reaction they will generally move on.

What most of you do not understand. Is around the Bay Area they are the tenth of the nine out of ten times rule. Jammers here will jam a repeater with absolutely no activity on it at 2 in the morning and go for hours while there is no activity. This has been going on for years it does not mater. Like AF6BJ said they have to be a man becaus a woman would give up and go shopping.

N0JEF
06-28-2009, 09:02 PM
The bay area 2/440 repeaters have been experiencing a rash of jamming activities ...:o


I have talked to this guy on HF. He is in Tampa Bay as am I. You must mean the 64 machine. There is alot of history there. :rolleyes:

WR8D
06-28-2009, 09:23 PM
We uns over here in Alabama dont have folks who intentionally jam repeaters...we dont do childish things like that ( leave that kind of stuff for you California folks to do ) .

No they come here to East Ky and Wv to ride their four wheelers in our mountains and do it then. "lol"

I caught one red handed. He rolled up his windows and scooted over to the middle of the seat. Locked the doors...guess i scared the pee out of him...he didn't jam any more.

He was just sitting there keying up on everyone on the repeater making stupid sounds to qrm the repeater. I switched over to the input freq and drove right up beside him while watching the s-meter on my rig. I would'nt of really yanked him through the keyhole in his truck door, but he didn't know that...i kind of felt sorry for the little guy afterwards..."lol"...

WR8D yeah, redneck and proud of it!:cool:

WC5P
06-28-2009, 10:44 PM
REAL HAMS DON'T USE REPEATERS !!

WA6MHZ
06-28-2009, 10:57 PM
What most of you do not understand. Is around the Bay Area they are the tenth of the nine out of ten times rule. Jammers here will jam a repeater with absolutely no activity on it at 2 in the morning and go for hours while there is no activity. This has been going on for years it does not mater. Like AF6BJ said they have to be a man becaus a woman would give up and go shopping.

So WHO is listenning to a repeater at 2 in the morning? The JAMMERS!!!
Doesn't seem to be a problem.

KC9NCF
06-29-2009, 02:01 AM
Here's how we deal with it in Chitown!

We IGNORE jammers, lids, etc. They DO go away although they do occasionally make for a PITA, they don't last too long because they get bored.

Now, what I am about to say is my personal opinion of what SHOULD be legal to do to jammers and does not reflect on anyone but me. I think if a person personally catches a jammer, the said jammer should get their teeth kicked out, their faced bashed in, and then said jammer should be taken to be the guest of a "roast" by means of having a 5KW load stuck up their a$$ and they should get cooked from the inside out...hey, a QSO party could be conducted while the jerk suffers with each transmission.

WA6ITF
06-29-2009, 04:07 AM
Back in the 80s, the Jammers were the GOOD GUYS here in San Diego! Now that might be hard to believe, but we had (and still have) this repeater known as the 0464 Sand Box! About that time, some OFs took over the repeater and held it hostage, blabbing day and night some of the most Insane, Droll, ear-bleeding nonsense you ever heard. The kingpins ( all silent keys by now) were JumboDumbo Jack, CaCa Cal, And Mister Senility himself, Carmen. Their mentor was the ringleader of them all, Jammer Jimmy. They baited jammers, all ran GREEN BOXes (Super QRO 2 meter amps) and multi antenna arrays with who knows how much ERP to try and out jam the jammers. It was complete bedlam around the clock, and lots of off the air mischief as well. The best prank was when someone sent in a forged FCC 610 asking for a call sign change for Jimmy. Boy, was he hopping mad when a new callsign arrived in the mail!!! A whole radio club was formed just because of this war. It was exciting listenning, just to see what would happen next. Eventually, the OFs passed away and the Jammers returned to normal hams, and the repeater almost went dormant. It is still in use, for normal ham to ham communications, but doesn't have the thirlls and excitement it had during the Jammer Wars of the 80s!

Hmmmm. Might you be referribng to 'Jerry's Jamming Service?"

K0RGR
06-29-2009, 04:17 AM
Gosh, is it the .64 in the Bay Area you're talking about? That used to be the group I was involved with.

With a couple glaring exceptions, we never had a lot of trouble with jamming on that one. But the huge coverage area sure made it likely. They used to make these very low power transmitter modules about the size of a dime for 2 meters. Somebody set some of those up on the input one time, and shut us down until they were all found, which was real hard to do from the ground.

WA6ITF
06-29-2009, 04:50 AM
I just looked up Jim`s old call. Interesting! It came up with "Secret underground orgnanization of amateur radio" What the heck?

"UGR" or "Underground Radio" was an "anti-repeater owner movement" based in Southern California in the late 1970's by several hams who hated the old Pallisades Amateur Radio Club and its 146.01 / .61 repeater that was nicknamed "Good-Guy - The Gold Plated Radio." As I recall it was initially a group of three hams -- two Extra's and one Tech -- who decided to hold forth on 01/61 on a 24 hr / day 7/day a week jamming spree. Eventually they realized that the Pallisades club had a bit to much pull in Washington and moved their antics to what was then the 146.40 in / 147.435 out WR6ABE machine on Mt. Wilson. It was there that the Underground Radio group started to really get some following with a mantra of "...freeing the repeater users from the enslavement of repeater owners and the FCC rules."

It all came tumbling down one afternoon in the latter 1980's when one of the UGR followers received a citation from the FCC and went into an around-the-clock tirade on .435, The machines then owner -- Dave Farone (cat remember his call) -- now an SK -- tried to reason with the guy but to no avail. The guy would not give in and go away.

As the episode wore on the guy began threatening the life of the local FCC EIC -- and possibly others. Within a few days he was arrested and that's when the Underground Radio movement truly moved underground.

From then until Riley came on the scene the groups followers would do jamming raids on repeaters for a few hours and then disappear for a few days only to reappear on another machine, etc. Most of this was on 2 meters albeit some 440 machines also got targeted. Most of us then on 2 meters got sick of the FCC's inaction and went up to 220. For the better part of 6 years I did not even turn on a 2 meter radio in the L.A. area. Just operated 220 and 440.

When I bought my first 2/440 dual bander about 1994 or so, I took a listen on 2 meters -- got sick at what I heard -- and just programmed in a bunch of 440 frequencies. The 2 meter side got used only on out of town trips.

Eventually I did program in the local low level 2 meter repeater that serves only our town, but that was it.

The one exception was SWLing 2 meters the day after the crosses were burned on the front lawn of Joe Merdler, N6AHU's home. He was an attorney and ham radio activist leading the fight against UGR and other copycat groups that had formed (Jamming International and The Jammasters to name but two). The incident made national news on all 3 TV networks. It was widely believed that the crosses were a warning from Underground Radio to Merdler to "..back away or else..."

Merdler would not back away and would likely still be leading the fight against jammers if he had not suffered a fatal heart attack in the '90's.

So yes, there was an honest Underground Radio group dedicated to repeater jamming. Yes it spawned several copycat offshoots. And no -- nobody really knows what happened to any of them or even who most of their member/followers were. It truly was "Underground Radio."

de WA6ITF

WA6ITF
06-29-2009, 05:00 AM
GThey used to make these very low power transmitter modules about the size of a dime for 2 meters. Somebody set some of those up on the input one time, and shut us down until they were all found, which was real hard to do from the ground.

Down here in SoCal in the late '80's or early '90's someone built and planted a fascinating device that used the .435 repeaters own transmitter RF to power the jamming device. I'd have to ask the then repeater owner of .435 -- Bob Thornburg WB6JPI -- but I think the unit also had a CW ID that would transmit a not to nice message -- in Morse.

The problem in finding it was that it was that the only time it transmitter was when it sampled RF from the repeaters transmitter and if the repeater was unkeyed so was the jamming unit.

I believe it was discovered not far from the repeaters site -- but how -- Im not certain.

A lot of engineering creativity for a truly stupid purpose.

ITF

N7BUI
06-29-2009, 05:28 AM
What is it about jamming that makes a man... (I'm sure they are men, women would have given up and gone shopping by now).....sit around all day waiting to jam someone... I don't get it.



It's the same fun that some hams have when they jam (oops...call CQ DX) on top of illegal truckers that have come up into 10 meters. Is there anything more satisfying than interrupting freebanders to some? Probably not.

The same thrill can be said of Internet trollers. The anonymous accounts that they hold can be the source of huge amusement. It's the thrill of the chase, and the possibly of getting caught that amuse jammers.

They feel the day to day activities of ham radio are yawners. And it puts some fun into their pathetic boring lives of couch potato TV, fat wives, and little kids in diapers.

KB3LAZ
06-29-2009, 06:31 AM
So WHO is listenning to a repeater at 2 in the morning?


Uh....people like me that are awake at the current moment.

VE7DCW
06-29-2009, 06:41 AM
So WHO is listenning to a repeater at 2 in the morning? The JAMMERS!!!
Doesn't seem to be a problem.

At 2 in the morning our repeaters are bothered by the "sounds of silence"... come to think of it..... it could be 2 in the afternoon and you'll hear the same thing... a jammer on my local repeater would get bored quickly..... :rolleyes: Que sera sera...

73

WA6MHZ
06-29-2009, 12:32 PM
Down here in SoCal in the late '80's or early '90's someone built and planted a fascinating device that used the .435 repeaters own transmitter RF to power the jamming device. I'd have to ask the then repeater owner of .435 -- Bob Thornburg WB6JPI -- but I think the unit also had a CW ID that would transmit a not to nice message -- in Morse.

The problem in finding it was that it was that the only time it transmitter was when it sampled RF from the repeaters transmitter and if the repeater was unkeyed so was the jamming unit.

I believe it was discovered not far from the repeaters site -- but how -- Im not certain.

A lot of engineering creativity for a truly stupid purpose.

ITF

We had an automated jammer down here, on the 146.64 Otay repeater.

It was a marvelous circuit. It would send out a quick 20WPM "HI" every so often. The time period would randomly vary from 10 minutes to 2 hours or so, so it was almost impossible to guess when it would go off. It was situated on top of a mountain in deep brush across the valley from the repeater, impossible to get to except by some serious hiking.

Then there was a wildfire and it got toasted.

Later, it was replaced with a new, upgraded model. This one had a Solar panel to power it, the same random timer, but now it played a quick melody on touchtones which later became known as the JAMMER song. No one could get over it, but it didn't really interfere with anyone but the OFs who had taken over the repeater. It would only transmit for about 3 seconds. It was designed to just ANNOY the OFs and drive them crazy. It did it's job wonderfully.

This ran non-stop for around 5 years. No one ever Found it, even though we have some of the best DFers in the country. Finally, when the OFs went away and the Jammer wars fizzled out, it was recovered and destroyed. Don't know who put it up there.... Well maybe I do after all.

AE1PT
06-29-2009, 03:41 PM
Some people just have no lives... Here is the all time theme song for jammers from Rasta Bob...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WlCdiU9IzA&feature=fvst

WA4OTD
06-30-2009, 12:21 AM
Why not report to the FCC? Repeater control operator has a responsibility and everyone should help him by having a jammer hunt ;)

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/files/Hertt09_05_07_5109.html

WA4OTD
06-30-2009, 12:22 AM
Another repeater warning.

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/files/Coyle09_05_07_5106.html

K4AX
06-30-2009, 12:48 AM
Amazing that it ran for 5 years, what sort of battery did you use? :rolleyes:


We had an automated jammer down here, on the 146.64 Otay repeater.

It was a marvelous circuit. It would send out a quick 20WPM "HI" every so often. The time period would randomly vary from 10 minutes to 2 hours or so, so it was almost impossible to guess when it would go off. It was situated on top of a mountain in deep brush across the valley from the repeater, impossible to get to except by some serious hiking.

Then there was a wildfire and it got toasted.

Later, it was replaced with a new, upgraded model. This one had a Solar panel to power it, the same random timer, but now it played a quick melody on touchtones which later became known as the JAMMER song. No one could get over it, but it didn't really interfere with anyone but the OFs who had taken over the repeater. It would only transmit for about 3 seconds. It was designed to just ANNOY the OFs and drive them crazy. It did it's job wonderfully.

This ran non-stop for around 5 years. No one ever Found it, even though we have some of the best DFers in the country. Finally, when the OFs went away and the Jammer wars fizzled out, it was recovered and destroyed. Don't know who put it up there.... Well maybe I do after all.

KC9NCF
06-30-2009, 12:56 AM
Why not report to the FCC? Repeater control operator has a responsibility and everyone should help him by having a jammer hunt ;)

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/files/Hertt09_05_07_5109.html

Wow! Banned from the K6JSI System? This guy must really be a lid! I have spoken with Shorty many times and have a very close friend who personally knows Shorty. From my QSO's with JSI himself on the Winsystem, and from what my friend says about him...well, sorry, you must have really done something wrong to get thrown off of one of Shorty's repeaters.

Shorty is a really friendly man and very tolerant of many people from what I have seen, so something must really have been a problem with this banned person.

KF6VYH
06-30-2009, 05:46 AM
Another repeater warning.

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/files/Coyle09_05_07_5106.html

The problem with those warning is that they do not apply to jammers, those were sent to hams the in which the repeater owner knew their call sign. Jammers do not use call signs.
A jammer and an idiot with a call sign are two types of operators, some times both are named Richard Head.

WA6MHZ
06-30-2009, 12:57 PM
Amazing that it ran for 5 years, what sort of battery did you use? :rolleyes:


The battery used in the system, by whoever built it, was a 7 Amphour gell cell with a small solar panel to recharge it. Power management was a serious issue, and it could have run for decades had it not been recovered. The FCC would have had no humor about this at all, so that is why it was recovered. Even the IC's had the date codes sanded off, and the device cleaned extensively for fingerprints or any other identifying characteristics. No evidence of it's existance was allowed to remain. This was essentially a Satellite, designed in honor of the OSCAR system of sats.

That is why the first one sent a CW "H I", just as Oscar 1 did.

The solar panel was made out of these little Edmond Scientific Solar cell crescents, all hand wired in series and compacted to be a very small form.

The Device was buried except for the panel in the brush so T-hunters would have a very hard time finding it. It fit in a backpack, and the individual who built it had to hike several miles up incredible vertical terrain to plant it.

Great care was spent to make the 2nd one fireproof, with insulation in the package, and it's burial made it secure.

It did have one label on case anyone ever found it. Stamped in metal with a metal stamp were the letters
"4Q2OM"

Casual repeater users would rarely hear it, and it was so brief it would only cause about 1 word to be lost in a conversation. It sure wasn't malicious, only designed to ANNOY the OF's who were on the repeater 24/7 Fillibustering. Sort of a RF version of the Chinese Water Torture.

KC9PFH
06-30-2009, 06:17 PM
The gent responded by stealing his electric meter, just plopped the thing out..
:D:D:D
The PERFECT response!

KF6VYH
06-30-2009, 08:45 PM
i just found this
http://af6bj.com/1_7_Polling-page.html

NN3W
06-30-2009, 08:53 PM
Back in the 80s, the Jammers were the GOOD GUYS here in San Diego! Now that might be hard to believe, but we had (and still have) this repeater known as the 0464 Sand Box! About that time, some OFs took over the repeater and held it hostage, blabbing day and night some of the most Insane, Droll, ear-bleeding nonsense you ever heard. The kingpins ( all silent keys by now) were JumboDumbo Jack, CaCa Cal, And Mister Senility himself, Carmen. Their mentor was the ringleader of them all, Jammer Jimmy. They baited jammers, all ran GREEN BOXes (Super QRO 2 meter amps) and multi antenna arrays with who knows how much ERP to try and out jam the jammers. It was complete bedlam around the clock, and lots of off the air mischief as well. The best prank was when someone sent in a forged FCC 610 asking for a call sign change for Jimmy. Boy, was he hopping mad when a new callsign arrived in the mail!!! A whole radio club was formed just because of this war. It was exciting listenning, just to see what would happen next. Eventually, the OFs passed away and the Jammers returned to normal hams, and the repeater almost went dormant. It is still in use, for normal ham to ham communications, but doesn't have the thirlls and excitement it had during the Jammer Wars of the 80s!

OMG. The "04 10-4" sand box. Carmen and Cal - that brings back memories. I thought they were hillarous.

K4KYV
07-01-2009, 02:44 AM
The best prank was when someone sent in a forged FCC 610 asking for a call sign change for Jimmy. Boy, was he hopping mad when a new callsign arrived in the mail!!!

Did he use that callsign, try to get it changed back, or just ignore the whole thing and keep on using his old one?

WA6MHZ
07-01-2009, 03:07 AM
Did he use that callsign, try to get it changed back, or just ignore the whole thing and keep on using his old one?

His original callsign was W6VCE. I don't remember what the new one was, but it was something like KD6something. He contacted the FCC and notified them it was fraudulently changed, but used the new call until he got the old one back. Lotta Yuk yuk yuk in the meantime. He was very carefull to follow the callsign rules as lots of people were following him around to catch him slipping up. He did finally get busted for Jamming at a later date. He is a SK now.

KC6TOA
07-01-2009, 09:36 PM
Its interesting to read here about the nefarious activities of days gone by, but what was the original post? It was about a rash of jamming activities from "lids" on bay area repeaters.

One solution is to have a 2nd secret input to the repeater on some other band. Preferably this input would be on a ham band that you cant just go out and buy equipment for. 33cm comes to mind for this, because even if they found the frequency with a scanner, they still need the transmitting equipment to take out your signal. The ultimate dream input to a repeater would be some sort of spread spectrum, but perhaps that could be going a bit too far.

You could always have an input on the lower part of 70cm somewhere or on 1.2ghz, but as soon as they found it then they'd be hammering on it just like the regular input. It could be useful to use some non-standard PL tone or digital-PL code to prevent its un-authorized use, but that does not prevent jamming.

KC9LGV
07-02-2009, 05:38 AM
If i was a betting man, I would say if a few jammers walked outside to find a straight pin in their coax and a note attatched to it that said "Next time it will be 110 VAC", they might consider thinking twice before jamming again.

KY5U
07-02-2009, 12:08 PM
Were they BRUTALLY jammed?

N6NZE
08-18-2009, 08:05 PM
I HUNT DA FOX I HUNT DA BEAR I HUNT DA MOOSE SOMETIME I HUNT DA RAT LAS WEEK I TAKE AXE AN GO FER HUNT DAT SKUNK POLE CAT
MY FREN BILL SAY SHE MAKE FER GUD EAT I TELL MY WIFE SHE GET FUR COAT MEBE WE GET SOME MEAT I WALK FER TWO THREE FOUR FIVE MILE
MAYBE I HEAR STRONG SMELL I TINK MAYBE DAT SKUNK SHE DIE FURCOAT SHE GONE TO HELL AND DEN I SEE DAT LIL SKUNK SHE SIT BY ONE BIG TREE I'M SNEAKING UP VER CLOSE TO HIM DAT SKUNK SHE DON SEE ME AND DEN I GET VER CLOSE TO HIM I RAISE MY ANTENNA UP
HIGH UP PER PLUNK DAT DAMN SKUNK TRO SOMETING IN MY EYE
SACRE BLEU I NEARLY BLIN BY YAR I CANNOT SEE I RUN AROUND AND AROUND AGAIN TILL I BUMP INTO DA TREE AT LAST I TROW MY
AXE AWAY I HEAD STRAIGHT FOR THE SHACK I TINK MAYBE A MILLION SKUNKS IS CLIMBING ON MY BACK MY WIFE SHE GREET ME AT THE
DOOR ON ME SHE SICS DA DOG YOU CAN'T SLEEP HERE NO MORE
GO SLEEP OUT WID DA HOGS I TRY TO GET DA HOG PIN IN
MON DIEU VAT DO U TINK? DAT DAMN HOG NO STAND FER DAT BECAUSE THE AWFUL STINK NO MORE I HUNT DAT LIL SKUNK FORGET HER FURS AND MEAT FOR IF HER PEE SHE SMELL SO BAD PAR BLEU
VAT IF HE SHEEET?

W0BKR
08-18-2009, 08:17 PM
Were they BRUTALLY jammed?

Yeah, that was funny....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pcqVQe-4z0

KG4CGC
08-18-2009, 08:26 PM
I HUNT DA FOX I HUNT DA BEAR I HUNT DA MOOSE SOMETIME I HUNT DA RAT LAS WEEK I TAKE AXE AN GO FER HUNT DAT SKUNK POLE CAT
MY FREN BILL SAY SHE MAKE FER GUD EAT I TELL MY WIFE SHE GET FUR COAT MEBE WE GET SOME MEAT I WALK FER TWO THREE FOUR FIVE MILE
MAYBE I HEAR STRONG SMELL I TINK MAYBE DAT SKUNK SHE DIE FURCOAT SHE GONE TO HELL AND DEN I SEE DAT LIL SKUNK SHE SIT BY ONE BIG TREE I'M SNEAKING UP VER CLOSE TO HIM DAT SKUNK SHE DON SEE ME AND DEN I GET VER CLOSE TO HIM I RAISE MY ANTENNA UP
HIGH UP PER PLUNK DAT DAMN SKUNK TRO SOMETING IN MY EYE
SACRE BLEU I NEARLY BLIN BY YAR I CANNOT SEE I RUN AROUND AND AROUND AGAIN TILL I BUMP INTO DA TREE AT LAST I TROW MY
AXE AWAY I HEAD STRAIGHT FOR THE SHACK I TINK MAYBE A MILLION SKUNKS IS CLIMBING ON MY BACK MY WIFE SHE GREET ME AT THE
DOOR ON ME SHE SICS DA DOG YOU CAN'T SLEEP HERE NO MORE
GO SLEEP OUT WID DA HOGS I TRY TO GET DA HOG PIN IN
MON DIEU VAT DO U TINK? DAT DAMN HOG NO STAND FER DAT BECAUSE THE AWFUL STINK NO MORE I HUNT DAT LIL SKUNK FORGET HER FURS AND MEAT FOR IF HER PEE SHE SMELL SO BAD PAR BLEU
VAT IF HE SHEEET?

WOW! THAT'S QUITE A STORY.

KG4CGC
08-18-2009, 08:28 PM
Some people are just dicks ;)

Yes. There are those that can be quite the knob.

KI6USW
08-18-2009, 08:33 PM
We've had jammers on the N6NFI repeater here in the South Bay Area (Santa Clara Co) the last few nights since I began to use this repeater over the last week.

The guy who owns this repeater (KR6DD) is big on the foxhunt, and so are many of the members of this repeater club. So, having a jammer on this repeater - is like the fox being dropped in the middle of a pack of hounds.

Pushing a pin into the coax of a station is guerilla warefare. These aren't high school pranks - but destruction of private prperty, burglary, and threats that occur in the Santa Clara valley. But it is also a form of terrorism. One must go thru channels with a "OO" to make the collar right for the Ham freq's.

I've also had to deal with some local CBers on ch 17 ("The Roy Show") that have gone to people's homes and cut coax, stole antennas and radios. As well as practicing racism. In this particular group, I have collected evidence that the FBI and/or the FCC would be interested in. If there is one more act from this group, I am ready to use the authorities to this end and give them my evidence. They are walking on thin ice -and aren't aware. I don't hate these CBers at all; but some things they do are outside the bands of law. They have gone too far.

K6ABZ
08-18-2009, 09:02 PM
Wow! Banned from the K6JSI System? This guy must really be a lid! I have spoken with Shorty many times and have a very close

The two repeaters that cover San Diego have been mostly off every time I've tried lately; they transmit but don't receive.

Isn't that a violation of FCC rules? It seems that they're, in effect, one-way transmitters right now.

I finally just took them out of my scan list. That network is, in general, a nice network, but it's frustrating that the San Diego repeaters are constantly shut down. What's the point of even having them?

K9STH
08-18-2009, 11:08 PM
ABZ:

Are the transmitters identifying? If so, then that is perfectly legal. Have you contacted the repeater owners to see if the repeaters are having problems? Also, has the method of activating the receiver (i.e. CTCSS tone) changed? That happens all the time and then you have to find out the "new" tone (if the repeater owner wants to disclose this information, there is nothing in the regulations that says that the owner must make this information public).

Now I am definitely not a "fan" of "private" repeaters. But, the FCC does allow such so there is nothing that can be legally done to make them public.

Glen, K9STH

WA6MHZ
08-18-2009, 11:12 PM
What freqs are the repeaters you are listenning to? I would bet you have the wrong PL. Play CTCSS Russian Roulette until you key it up.

K6ABZ
08-18-2009, 11:25 PM
What freqs are the repeaters you are listenning to? I would bet you have the wrong PL. Play CTCSS Russian Roulette until you key it up.

2 Escondido CA K6JSI 449.080 (-) 100.0
3 San Diego CA K6JSI 447.640* (-) 100.0

I asked about it during a rare time when they were on-line and basically got told "we're not going to talk about it on the air." I think it's due to a jammer who plays fart noises and makes insulting comments about Shortie.

I have nothing against closed systems, but this is not a closed system. It's advertised as an open system, but since it's broadcast-only in San Diego, and since the repeaters are not coordinated, it's tying up channels that people could use for local traffic. It seems that when you're dealing with a linked system, and you have a local problem, you should bring the whole node down, rather than just shutting off the input... especially on uncoordinated repeaters. In its current state, it's effectively broadcasting traffic from the other 70 sites, since there's no way to respond to calls on the network.

NN3W
08-19-2009, 01:39 PM
Ahh...California has always had a fetish on odd repeater operations. The DR0NKs are perfect example of that.

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