Obama fights back on questions about his patriotism

[kg4kww]

Obama fights back on questions about his patriotism :p

(CNN) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama defended himself and his wife Sunday against suggestions that they are insufficiently patriotic.

Asked during a town hall meeting in Lorain, Ohio, about "an attempt by conservatives and Republicans to paint you as unpatriotic," a questioner cited the fact that Obama once failed to put his hand over his heart while singing the national anthem.

The questioner also noted that the Illinois senator does not wear an American flag lapel pin, has met with former members of the radical anti-Vietnam War group, Weather Underground, and his wife was quoted recently as saying she never felt really proud of the United States until recently.

full story (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/24/obama.patriotism/index.html)

[AE6IP]

You forgot his answer:

"The way I will respond to it is with the truth: that I owe everything I am to this country," he said. Obama said it was a speech about his love for this country that put him in the national spotlight. He shot down the idea that failing to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem makes him unpatriotic.

[ad5mb]

He shot down the idea that failing to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem makes him unpatriotic.

I'm inclined to believe it will pop back up again, and again, and again...

[KA8NCR]

I'm inclined to believe it will pop back up again, and again, and again...

Of course it will, as if this tempest in a teacup is a higher measure of patriotism than putting your life on absolute hold and enduring the probing and rat race of trying to get elected for a job that'll be a minimum of four years of hell.

Yes, putting your hand over your heart and wearing a flag lapel pin trumps the actual attempt at winning and doing the job.

[kc2orw]

Yes, putting your hand over your heart and wearing a flag lapel pin trumps the actual attempt at winning and doing the job.
Of course it matters if you watch Fox News or listen to Rush Limbaugh. But harping on it may not help John McCain win the election. Normal people are worn out listening that same tired old reprocessed message over and over and over again ROTFLMAO :D

Oh another note*
Yet one more, now non stealthy, political posting in the wrong section again. :D

[n2nh]

Now Greg, you don't want to make the Punisher cry by posting Political threads in Ragchew do ya?
:D

[kg4kww]

This thread is to hot for the dems to deal with.

[AE6IP]

This thread is too devoid of content for the dems to care about.

There, I fixed it for you.

[KA8NCR]

This thread is to hot for the dems to deal with.

Ah Greg, go look at pictures of Chelsea Clinton. You know you want her.

[WC5P]

So, Obama is buds with Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, eh???

Ask me if I'm surprised........ :rolleyes:

What a lovely couple they make. Too bad about Ayers's previous main squeeze, blowing herself up in that bomb factory, and all.

Plenty of good reading material is available on the lovely couple. Start with www.fbi.gov FOIA files on the weather underground.

[KB9YCO]

I love the people that get all hung up on the ritualistic crap. You are not required to sing an anthem or wear a pin, you are not required to pledge any allegiances to your country. Your actions dictate whether or not you care about your country not rituals and/or decorations. That's what America is supposed to be all about, freedom to what you wish without being forced to adhere to mostly pointless customs. I remember some guy giving me crap for not having a flag on my car after 9-11, I can't post my response to him here but it was a good one.
If this is the best that they can come up with on Obama then they're really in trouble.

[AE6IP]

“Sen. Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence,” said Obama’s press secretary, Bill Burton. “But he was an 8-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost 40 years ago is ridiculous.”

..........

[WC5P]

Sure he dos..... :rolleyes:

Obama went to Columbia University, the birthplace of SDS / Weather Underground. He certainly would have known that Ayers and Dohrn were violent revolutionaries. So what is he doing at their house ??? Why would he take campaign contributions from these commie terrorists???

Now, let's all sing Kumbaya..... :)

[K3XR]

Why question Barry's patriotism??

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/02/24/obamessiah-and-the-weathermen-more-recent-sightings/?print=1

[w5klb]

This talk concerning Barrak Obama's Patriotism is "a whole bunch of nothing." He's not Muslim as some of my conservative amateur colleagues would like to have EVERYONE believe. And even though I don't agree with Obama's politics, I believe the man is a patriot in his own right.

Fellow conservatives and KWW:

The ONLY way you're going diminish Obama's "Rock Star" status is go after the man ON THE ISSUES and on his accomplishments. And what has he accomplished?

ABSOLUTLY NOTHING!

Obama's Presidential Campaign is all about nothing-literally. ;)

[kc2orw]

This thread is to hot for the dems to deal with.
No I think not this Republican, me, sees it as a non issue considering how the Republican party under the leadership of the NeoCon wing pushed us into a war that is not morally equivalent to a war like WWII. You seek to make people who support the Democrats feel "unpatriotic" because he won't support a deviant form of Conservatism. Tell me how patriotic is it to lie to the public and exploit the public's anger at the 9/11 tragedy. That you don't get the meaning of his choices just tells me that you have a overly simplistic mindset.
So please feel free to continue to base your political judgments based on whether someone wears a "made in China" American flag pin on their lapel or not. :D

[K8YZK]

My question, since he doesn't put his hand over his heart during the National Athem, will he put his hand on the Bible and swear to Up Hold the Constitution Against All Enemies Foreign and Domestic?

[W3MIV]

My question, since he doesn't put his hand over his heart during the National Athem, will he put his hand on the Bible and swear to Up Hold the Constitution Against All Enemies Foreign and Domestic?


If elected, he will be required to take the oath that is stipulated in the Constitution. There is, however, no requirement for a Bible or any other testamentary prop, nor is there a requirement that he include the phrase, "so help me, God," which is merely customary and traditional, but NOT a part of the required oath of office.

[kc2orw]

My question, since he doesn't put his hand over his heart during the National Athem, will he put his hand on the Bible and swear to Up Hold the Constitution Against All Enemies Foreign and Domestic?
What no mention of supporting the rights of the people here just support wars based on fallacies and lies.
See we know that certain segments only support portions of the constitution and thus cherry pick that which they like and ignore that which they don't.
How interesting and revealing it is, it sounds almost unconstitutional in a way... very interesting.
So he will swear his oath of office on the Bible, something I think needs to be done away with, and he will swear to uphold the constitution all of it not just some of it.

[N3RQ]

My question, since he doesn't put his hand over his heart during the National Athem, will he put his hand on the Bible and swear to Up Hold the Constitution Against All Enemies Foreign and Domestic?

Did you place your hand on the Bible when they swore you into the military? Heck no! You merely raised your hand when took you the oath. No one should be required to place one's hand on the Bible to hold any office, as that amounts to a religious test.

[kc2orw]

My question, since he doesn't put his hand over his heart during the National Athem, will he put his hand on the Bible and swear to Up Hold the Constitution Against All Enemies Foreign and Domestic?
He will take an oath on the bibble to uphold everything, the constitution, the law of the land, the rights of the people everything...
Now that will indeed be "Change" :D

[K8YZK]

" No one should be required to place one's hand on the Bible to hold any office"

Well you know if he does maybe it will stop all the talk about if he is a Christian or Muslim. Yes he says he is a Christian, but like all politicans it could be just words, actions speak.

Remeber some infamous people ended up running/ruining their country voted in by people who were uninformed/naive, and liked what they were saying about a change is needed.

Then again I don't think he will win, but you never know what happened.

OH all except when I got drafted I did have a Bible with me and put my hand on it when I reenlisted.

Kurt

[kc2orw]

Remeber some infamous people ended up running/ruining their country voted in by people who were uninformed/naive, and liked what they were saying about a change is needed.

Well that is your opinion and well you have to keep in mind that we think it is you who are ill informed. So pointing that out is moot and most likely an obtuse way of casting an insult, isn't it even if it wasn't very cleverly conceived on you part :D

[K8YZK]

Well that is your opinion and well you have to keep in mind that we think it is you who are ill informed. So pointing that out is moot and most likely an obtuse way of casting an insult, isn't it even if it wasn't very cleverly conceived on you part :D

Well you know the same could be said about you, and you know maybe you are the very MISINFORMED and NAIVE person he is looking for.

Pray tell what insult was I trying to cast? I am voicing my opinion as you voice yours, and in the end, the election will tell who is correct.

[kc2orw]

Misinformed and Naive could be construed as such but it tells me you have no point whatsoever other then blind loyalty to memes and slogans. you cherish unquestioning loyalty and ignorance of the facts over being informed and not being a blind lemming. :D

[K8YZK]

"you cherish unquestioning loyalty and ignorance of the facts over being informed and not being a blind lemming."

Well if you think so, so be it. By the way being from NY why aren't you a Billary fan, instead of Obama?

Kurt
Democrat voting Republican.

[W3MIV]

He will take an oath on the bibble to uphold everything, the constitution, the law of the land, the rights of the people everything...
Now that will indeed be "Change" :D

Your post doesn't even begin to make any sense. What in hell is a "bibble?"

Well that is your opinion and well you have to keep in mind that we think it is you who are ill informed. So pointing that out is moot and most likely an obtuse way of casting an insult, isn't it even if it wasn't very cleverly conceived on you part :D

Pointing "what" out is moot? How is it "moot?"

This post makes even less sense. How does one go about "casting an insult" in "an obtuse way?"

Do you even know what "moot" or "obtuse" mean? It surely doesn't seem so.

[kc2orw]

Your post doesn't even begin to make any sense. What in hell is a "bibble?"

A demeaning version of the word Bible


Do you even know what "moot" or "obtuse" mean? It surely doesn't seem so.
Sure I do but unfortunately I referenced information from a topic with a parallel name to this one. Confusing isn't it maybe even moot on my part or possibly obtuse. :D

PS: Oh brother it is even worse than that :D

[kc2orw]

"you cherish unquestioning loyalty and ignorance of the facts over being informed and not being a blind lemming."

Well if you think so, so be it. By the way being from NY why aren't you a Billary fan, instead of Obama?

Kurt
Democrat voting Republican.
Because I do not ascribe to blind loyalty :D

[W0BKR]

From info from political watchdog groups that provide Bio info on candidates, Obama, isn't a Christian either, in fact, rejected Christianity. He belongs to a church that is a staunt follower of Faraqan (misspelled - sorry), who is the leader in teh Nation of Islam (Muslim militant group) in the USA. He also stated he wants to "eliminate the white supremacy in the White House" which means what?

His wife just recently stated, this is the first time she is proud to be living in America (What stopped them from moving prior?).

All in all, there are too many hidden agendas with this guy for me to support, and too much racial talk and undertones as well.

Sorry, I couldn't and woudln't vote for this guy nor does he have a plan. He wants change but has no idea how to get there.:eek:

[kc2orw]

Sorry, I couldn't and woudln't vote for this guy nor does he have a plan. He wants change but has no idea how to get there.:eek:
But you fib here you know he has a plan and you fear it.
His plan is to undo what Bush has done and you don't like that so you claim he has no plan.
The problem is his message is so simple because it is very nearly intuitively obvious.
If you want more wrong war and even expansion of war based on fallacy and lies then vote for McCain. If you don't then vote for whoever the Democrats select.
If you are afraid of Universal Healthcare then vote for McCain otherwise vote for whoever the Democrats select.

[nx6d]

uh huh.

And right wing talk radio has criminals like Ollie North, Roger Hedgecock and G. Gordon Liddy. You guys don't seem to be too exercised about that. They just say the garbage you want to hear...



Sure he dos..... :rolleyes:

Obama went to Columbia University, the birthplace of SDS / Weather Underground. He certainly would have known that Ayers and Dohrn were violent revolutionaries. So what is he doing at their house ??? Why would he take campaign contributions from these commie terrorists???

Now, let's all sing Kumbaya..... :)

[N8UZE]

So, Obama is buds with Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, eh???

Ask me if I'm surprised........ :rolleyes:

What a lovely couple they make. Too bad about Ayers's previous main squeeze, blowing herself up in that bomb factory, and all.

Plenty of good reading material is available on the lovely couple. Start with www.fbi.gov FOIA files on the weather underground.

Please reference something that shows he is "buds" with these people. The fact that Ayers made a campaign contribution does not indicate anything. Lots of people make donations to candidates that they don't know.

Personally I don't happen to support Obama for President (I'll be voting for McCain since he will probably get the Republican nomination), I consider it ridiculous to use the pin, the hand over heart (he's right about the ball games), and the contributions as grounds for questioning his patriotism.

[N3RQ]

Well you know if he does maybe it will stop all the talk about if he is a Christian or Muslim. Yes he says he is a Christian, but like all politicans it could be just words, actions speak.

Remeber some infamous people ended up running/ruining their country voted in by people who were uninformed/naive, and liked what they were saying about a change is needed.

Then again I don't think he will win, but you never know what happened.

OH all except when I got drafted I did have a Bible with me and put my hand on it when I reenlisted.

Kurt


The problem lies not in the fact that Obama claims to be a Christian, but in why anyone has to claim to be a Christian to get elected to the office of the POTUS in this country.

"Article. VI. - Debts, Supremacy, Oaths

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

[AE6IP]

Obama went to Columbia University, the birthplace of SDS / Weather Underground. He certainly would have known that Ayers and Dohrn were violent revolutionaries. So what is he doing at their house ??? Why would he take campaign contributions from these commie terrorists???

Tens of thousands of people went to Columbia. Hundreds have worked with Ayers in his later years. Are you suggesting they are all "commie terrorists"?

What was Obama doing at Ayers' house? He was being presented as the candidate to replace Alice Palmer, who was announcing that she was stepping down from her state senate position to run for Congress.

It doesn't surprise me, by the way, that someone attempting to smear Obama would not know that the SDS was not and Bill Ayers is not "communist."

You try to smear one of the candidates by a tenuous connection because he once attended a party at the house of a controversial figure.

Then you wonder why no good candidates will run.

[AE6IP]

The ONLY way you're going diminish Obama's "Rock Star" status is go after the man ON THE ISSUES and on his accomplishments. And what has he accomplished? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Obama's Presidential Campaign is all about nothing-literally.

He has accomplished a world class education. He has demonstrated an ability to build consensus and find agreement among stakeholders on controversial issues. He is on the verge of being the first Hawaiian to win a presidential nomination.

You have a most unusual definition of 'absolutely nothing'.

[AE6IP]

Well you know if he does maybe it will stop all the talk about if he is a Christian or Muslim. Yes he says he is a Christian, but like all politicans it could be just words, actions speak.

Since Obama was sworn in to the United States Senate while resting his hand on his personal bible and that "Two press reports from Obama's swearing-in ceremony in January 2005 mention specifically that Obama took the oath of office by placing his hand on his own copy of the Bible." I doubt very much that the ignorant and uninformed will stop spreading that malicious rumor even when his presidential swearing in portraits grace the nation's news papers.

[AE6IP]

From info from political watchdog groups that provide Bio info on candidates, Obama, isn't a Christian either, in fact, rejected Christianity.

You might want to drop these nebulous "political watchdog groups" from your reading list, as they are very misinformed. Senator Obama is indeed a Christian (http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/).

It is a common failing among us politicians, but i do not hold it against them.

[ac4r]

He has accomplished a world class education. He has demonstrated an ability to build consensus and find agreement among stakeholders on controversial issues. He is on the verge of being the first Hawaiian to win a presidential nomination.



He is your hero. How special.

[N8UZE]

As a conservative and believing in fairly strict interpretations of the Constitution, there is nothing in the Constitution that requires the use of any symbols, religious or otherwise, in taking the oath of office. If we were to elect an atheist, he/she certainly wouldn't swear on a bible. Neither would a Buddhist or members of many other religions.

The oath itself, with no adornments or symbology, is sufficient.

[N9MOQ]

Should Obama be afraid of this whistle blower?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVeFVtcdSYY

[AE6IP]

He is your hero. How special.

That was an amazing leap on your part. I described the senator's accomplishments. That hardly makes him my "hero".

I will be voting for him in the general election though. He's clearly the best suited of the current crop of candidates.

[ac4r]

That was an amazing leap on your part. I described the senator's accomplishments. That hardly makes him my "hero".

I will be voting for him in the general election though. He's clearly the best suited of the current crop of candidates.


He will not let you down. More taxes and social programs.

[WC5P]

uh huh.

And right wing talk radio has criminals like Ollie North, Roger Hedgecock and G. Gordon Liddy. You guys don't seem to be too exercised about that. They just say the garbage you want to hear...

Did any of those guys attempt violent armed revolution?

Did any of those guys place a bomb in a police station?

Ayers did.

[WC5P]

Please reference something that shows he is "buds" with these people. The fact that Ayers made a campaign contribution does not indicate anything. Lots of people make donations to candidates that they don't know.

Personally I don't happen to support Obama for President (I'll be voting for McCain since he will probably get the Republican nomination), I consider it ridiculous to use the pin, the hand over heart (he's right about the ball games), and the contributions as grounds for questioning his patriotism.

Here ya go:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html

Obama and Ayers were board members at an outfit called the Woods fund of Chicago. Ayers is still on their Board of Directors. Many more stories on this are easily found. All one has to do is Google Obama + Ayers.

That makes me wonder about Obama’s “Community Activist” days. Just what the hell is a “Community Activist”, anyway? Who pays that salary? I always suspected that there were hard core Marxists behind Obama’s “activism”. If we follow the money trail on the Woods Fund, I would bet we might find out many more interesting things.

[WC5P]

What was Obama doing at Ayers' house? He was being presented as the candidate to replace Alice Palmer, who was announcing that she was stepping down from her state senate position to run for Congress.

It doesn't surprise me, by the way, that someone attempting to smear Obama would not know that the SDS was not and Bill Ayers is not "communist."

You try to smear one of the candidates by a tenuous connection because he once attended a party at the house of a controversial figure.

Dude, both SDS and the Weathermen proclaimed themselves as “Communist Revolutionaries” Based on their actions, how can one not believe them?? You don’t believe it? Read it in their own words in the FBI files.

And then, there’s that red star on Ayers’s web page. Or maybe he owns a Texaco station, LOL.

Also, I make it a point not to hang with violent felons. Apparently it doesn't bother Obama though.

You don’t need a Weatherman to know which way Bill Ayers blows.

Wake up and smell the Marxists.


“I don’t regret setting bombs; I feel we didn’t do enough.”
William C. Ayers

[kc2orw]

Did any of those guys attempt violent armed revolution?

Did any of those guys place a bomb in a police station?

Ayers did.
No and no one from the Democrat party did either, so that was pointless.
Ah here is one that hard to dispute with some Right wing anti abortion people have advocated the bombing of abortion clinics, go look that one up on the internet :D

[N2RJ]

Obama fights back on questions about his patriotism :p

(CNN) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama defended himself and his wife Sunday against suggestions that they are insufficiently patriotic.

Asked during a town hall meeting in Lorain, Ohio, about "an attempt by conservatives and Republicans to paint you as unpatriotic," a questioner cited the fact that Obama once failed to put his hand over his heart while singing the national anthem.

The questioner also noted that the Illinois senator does not wear an American flag lapel pin, has met with former members of the radical anti-Vietnam War group, Weather Underground, and his wife was quoted recently as saying she never felt really proud of the United States until recently.

full story (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/24/obama.patriotism/index.html)

Greg, you can say it loud and proud, no need to hide your TRUE feelings - Obama is a negro and is a muslim, so there's no way he can be patriotic like a good ol' southern white boy.

[kc2orw]

Here ya go:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html

Obama and Ayers were board members at an outfit called the Woods fund of Chicago. Ayers is still on their Board of Directors. Many more stories on this are easily found. All one has to do is Google Obama + Ayers.

That makes me wonder about Obama’s “Community Activist” days. Just what the hell is a “Community Activist”, anyway? Who pays that salary? I always suspected that there were hard core Marxists behind Obama’s “activism”. If we follow the money trail on the Woods Fund, I would bet we might find out many more interesting things.
So I see you have no issue with Bush who took us to war in Iraq based on fallacy and lies. John McCain seems to be inclined to expand on it and cost us countless dollars, no doubt on loan from the Chinese, for what. Some people here actually advocate using nuclear arms against people, who while troublesome, may not be the big issue claimed by the NeoCons, a regime who went to war based on fallacies, that some would claim them to be...
So if Bush lied earlier couldn't we assume he is lying now and the John McCain is just the third term of the same policy, a policy based in error and coverups...

[w5klb]

He has accomplished a world class education. He has demonstrated an ability to build consensus and find agreement among stakeholders on controversial issues. He is on the verge of being the first Hawaiian to win a presidential nomination.

You have a most unusual definition of 'absolutely nothing'.

Noth'n from noth'n leaves noth'n
Obama's not someth'n believe you me
Don't you remember we con's told ya
He's socialist soldier who's more left than Hilliary.

So... you think that always voting "present" on the Senate floor is doing the job of a U.S. Senator. I don't like "Chappaquiddick" Ted Kennedy, but as least he does SOMETHING even if it's wrong.

I wonder if spinning at these speeds ever makes you dizzy?
Never mind. I'll just take a "Dramamine" and MoveOn.

Name one accomplishment Barrak Obama has done on the floor of the United States Senate for either his constituency or for his country.

Well?

[kc2orw]

Noth'n from noth'n leaves noth'n
Obama's not someth'n believe you me
Don't you remember we con's told ya
He's socialist soldier who thinks like Hilliary.

Well you contradict yourself you say he is nothing then you say he is a socialist. I guess you do mean he is something, something you don't like.


Name one accomplishment Barrak Obama has done on the floor of the United States Senate for either his constituency or for his country.

Why not list McCains accomplishments instead or are you afraid it doesn't amount to anything worthwhile either, twenty some odd years of doing nothing of value that's for sure :D

Oh that's right you like the idea of the USA being at war then we don't need to be at war... War based on fallacy and lies too great stuff you want the rest of us to put up with just to allow you to live in a fantasy world of fear.

[WC5P]

So I see you have no issue with Bush who took us to war in Iraq based on fallacy and lies. John McCain seems to be inclined to expand on it and cost us countless dollars, no doubt on loan from the Chinese, for what. Some people here actually advocate using nuclear arms against people, who while troublesome, may not be the big issue claimed by the NeoCons, a regime who went to war based on fallacies, that some would claim them to be...
So if Bush lied earlier couldn't we assume he is lying now and the John McCain is just the third term of the same policy, a policy based in error and coverups...

Did ya ever notice that when one of you lefties starts a sentence with "So I see" or "So you are saying" or anything of the kind, what follows is totally NOT what the guy said???

[kc2orw]

Did ya ever notice that when one of you lefties starts a sentence with "So I see" or "So you are saying" or anything of the kind, what follows is totally NOT what the guy said???
Well what can I say you have nothing to offer so you post a non sequitur.

[WC5P]

Well what can I say you have nothing to offer so you post a non sequitur.

So, you're saying that it's OK for Obama to associate with known terrorists.....





























See whutta mean, Vern ?? ;)

[K2WH]

If elected, he will be required to take the oath that is stipulated in the Constitution. There is, however, no requirement for a Bible or any other testamentary prop, nor is there a requirement that he include the phrase, "so help me, God," which is merely customary and traditional, but NOT a part of the required oath of office.

I wonder (if elected) instead of a bible at the inauguration he will use the Koran and shout Allāhu Akbar, الله أكبر

[nx6d]

I wonder (if elected) instead of a bible at the inauguration he will use the Koran and shout Allāhu Akbar, الله أكبر

How many times do you need the QRZ smackdown for being stupid, Whiskey Hotel?

OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM.

Stop trying to spread the "big lie".

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

[kc2orw]

So, you're saying that it's OK for Obama to associate with known terrorists.....
See whutta mean, Vern ?? ;)
I mean very simply that what you posted is an exaggeration of reality and I put no stock in anything you say. I can vote for the terrorist Bush via John McCain and live for four years of fear and lies. Or I can vote for someone who got a contribution of some dubious character. I see nothing more in it then that you seem to be trying to claim that they have greater affiliation then a mere contribution, I think not.
Would you get excited if a Republican got contributions from a KKK member, which they probably do. I haven't a doubt in my mind that NeoNazis have attended Republican fundraisers. But I don't necessarily assume that the Republicans support Nazi's or the KKK only that those people happen to like the Republicans.

You should get your head out of... the NIxon era, it is after all one of the most criticized period of time for the Republicans.

[K2WH]

How many times do you need the QRZ smackdown for being stupid, Whiskey Hotel?

OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM.

Stop trying to spread the "big lie".

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

And what's to stop him from converting back to Muslim once in office? I think we all agree, his supposed change to christianity was simply a cover to run for office knowing a Muslim could never win the oval office. I tell you, he is a con man with a good game, well rehearsed and I would venture to speculate this campaign of his is carefully coordinated and directed from the mid-east to obtain the office for evenutual influence in foreign policy towards the mid-east.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Sardaukar_Insignia-Dune.jpg

And how can this be? For he is the Kwisatz Haerach. The sleeper will awaken.

K2WH

[ad4mg]

How many times do you need the QRZ smackdown for being stupid, Whiskey Hotel?

OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM.

Stop trying to spread the "big lie".

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

Dave, you cannot fix "stupid". This is his destiny. Along with so many other hate filled bigots around this cesspool.

[N8UZE]

And what's to stop him from converting back to Muslim once in office? I think we all agree, his supposed change to christianity was simply a cover to run for office knowing a Muslim could never win the oval office. I tell you, he is a con man with a good game, well rehearsed and I would venture to speculate this campaign of his is carefully coordinated and directed from the mid-east to obtain the office for evenutual influence in foreign policy towards the mid-east.

If you don't agree with my thoughts on this, then you have also been Obamacized.

The sleeper will awaken.

K2WH

What a candidate's religion was, is, or will be is not relevent. Your "great conspiracy theory" holds no more water than thinking Kennedy would have been a puppet of the Pope since he was Catholic.

[kc2orw]

What a candidate's religion was, is, or will be is not relevent. Your "great conspiracy theory" holds no more water than thinking Kennedy would have been a puppet of the Pope since he was Catholic.
If you feed them they will always come back :D

[K2WH]

What a candidate's religion was, is, or will be is not relevent. Your "great conspiracy theory" holds no more water than thinking Kennedy would have been a puppet of the Pope since he was Catholic.

Oh you are so wrong. What do you think has been in the news for so long about the "Christian Right" about republican beliefs etc. His and anyones religion is very much in the news and in question and will be rightly so questioned. It is our duty to bring his religion out for public scrutiny. To do otherwise would be a disgrace. If he is the nominee and undergoes real vetting by the FBI, Interpol and other law enforcement offices they/we will find out Obama is NOT what or who he says he is. BTW, the Pope and Kennedy weren't slaughtering Americans with fully fueled jets by crashing them into buildings.

The sleeper will awaken.

K2WH

[ad4mg]

http://mysite.verizon.net/ad4mg/patriot.jpg
Makes you proud to be an american.

[AE6IP]

Dude, both SDS and the Weathermen proclaimed themselves as “Communist Revolutionaries” Based on their actions, how can one not believe them?? You don’t believe it? Read it in their own words in the FBI files.

No they didn't, and it's not there. The so-called "New Left" of the 60s tried very hard to distance itself from the communist party.[/quote]

Wake up and smell the Marxists.

You're about 40 years behind the times with that boogie man.

But you keep harping on what the SDS was, back when Obama was in grade school. it's a very effective way of exposing the lack of substance in your own arguments.

[N8UZE]

Oh you are so wrong. What do you think has been in the news for so long about the "Christian Right" about republican beliefs etc. His and anyones religion is very much in the news and in question and will be rightly so questioned. It is our duty to bring his religion out for public scrutiny. To do otherwise would be a disgrace. If he is the nominee and undergoes real vetting by the FBI, Interpol and other law enforcement offices they/we will find out Obama is NOT what or who he says he is. BTW, the Pope and Kennedy weren't slaughtering Americans with fully fueled jets by crashing them into buildings.

The sleeper will awaken.

K2WH

I repeat one's religious beliefs are irrelevent. There were also millions of Muslims who did not slaughter Americans with fully fueled jets by crashing them into buildings. Yet your position is that because you believe he might be a Muslim that he has no place in running for president. There are no provisions in our system for "vetting" a candidate by the FBI, Interpol or other law enforcement agencies. Such a process would violate our system of laws. Unless there is probable cause to believe a person has been involved in the commitment of a crime, the type of investigation that you seem to think should be done is unconstitutional.

[W3MIV]

Oh you are so wrong. What do you think has been in the news for so long about the "Christian Right" about republican beliefs etc. His and anyones religion is very much in the news and in question and will be rightly so questioned. It is our duty to bring his religion out for public scrutiny. To do otherwise would be a disgrace. If he is the nominee and undergoes real vetting by the FBI, Interpol and other law enforcement offices they/we will find out Obama is NOT what or who he says he is. BTW, the Pope and Kennedy weren't slaughtering Americans with fully fueled jets by crashing them into buildings.

The sleeper will awaken.

K2WH

This is a shameful, and not a little astonishing, display of the narrowest xenophobic hysteria I have yet seen in a series of vicious threads devoted to calumniating a US Senator because of his race and the ethnicity of his father. This whole thread, but most especially this post and your previous slurs, put me in mind of Joseph Welch's famous challenge to Joseph McCarthy at the Army hearings in the mid-fifties, so I shall repeat his words to you:

"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

You have repeatedly stooped to racial epithets, you have gleefully posted known lies, treating yourself as above it all, sort of a garbageman with white gloves, and I, for one, think you should be called on the slurs.

[AE6IP]

Noth'n from noth'n leaves noth'n
Obama's not someth'n believe you me

You haven't gotten your information straight yet, so I think I'll pass on beliving you. Thanks.

So... you think that always voting "present" on the Senate floor is doing the job of a U.S. Senator.

You might want to review the senator's voting records. As usual, your characterization is wrong.

I wonder if spinning at these speeds ever makes you dizzy?

Nah, I'm used to your sort of spinning.

Name one accomplishment Barrak Obama has done on the floor of the United States Senate for either his constituency or for his country.

Here you go: (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490)
the senator's recent voting record.

I'm sure even you can manage to find a few votes you agree with there.

But just in case you can't, how about

The "Coburn-Obama Transparency Act" provides for the web site USAspending.gov, managed by the Office of Management and Budget. The site lists all organizations receiving Federal funds from 2007 onward and provides breakdowns by the agency allocating the funds, the dollar amount given, and the purpose of the grant or contract.

I'd think more government transparency on fiscal matters would be dear to the hearts of conservatives everywhere.

[AE6IP]

So, you're saying that it's OK for Obama to associate with known terrorists.....

Surprisingly enough, the US Government, nor any of the other jurisdictions that might have, never prosecuted the SDS people after they turned themselves in. That means that they're free citizens just like you, and so, yes, the US Constitution does indeed grant you and Senator Obama the right to associate with them.

Not that having once attended a democratic event hosted at their house qualifies as "association" in all but the smallest of minds.

[W3MIV]

Now that Louis Farrakhan has endorsed Obama I expect the tenor and the frequency of hysterical attacks on this and similar threads devoted to the narrowest and most vicious sorts of bias and xenophobia to increase.

If you listen carefully, you can hear the garbagemen gathering their muck.

[K0RGR]

I particularly liked the video of the alleged "whistle blower". This guy knows that if Obama is elected, Richard Mellon Scaife will feed and clothe him as long as Obama is in office, and Limbaugh will make him famous - whether there's any substance to his accusation or not.

Frankly, if the Muslim nonsense is the best that the whisperers can do, the GOP is in really bad shape this election. LBJ vs. Goldwater II...

[N3ATS]

He has accomplished a world class education. He has demonstrated an ability to build consensus and find agreement among stakeholders on controversial issues. He is on the verge of being the first Hawaiian to win a presidential nomination.

You have a most unusual definition of 'absolutely nothing'.

A world class education was also had by Bush II and Clinton.

Consensus? I thought he stood for CHANGE? Now he agrees with the stakeholders? Which is it?

Controversial issues? What controversial issues? The ones he voted "No Vote/Present."

The first Hawaiian to be President? So what?

No wonder why they call him the Magic Negro. :D

[N3ATS]

Now that Louis Farrakhan has endorsed Obama I expect the tenor and the frequency of hysterical attacks on this and similar threads devoted to the narrowest and most vicious sorts of bias and xenophobia to increase.

If you listen carefully, you can hear the garbagemen gathering their muck.

Thank God he didn't take a contribution from Farrakhan, or even worse, didn't return it! But datz otay, he black.
.

[NL7W]

I repeat one's religious beliefs are irrelevent. There were also millions of Muslims who did not slaughter Americans with fully fueled jets by crashing them into buildings. Yet your position is that because you believe he might be a Muslim that he has no place in running for president. There are no provisions in our system for "vetting" a candidate by the FBI, Interpol or other law enforcement agencies. Such a process would violate our system of laws. Unless there is probable cause to believe a person has been involved in the commitment of a crime, the type of investigation that you seem to think should be done is unconstitutional.

Why is it the drive-by media never questions the Democrats when it comes to religion? Why is it they always question and make issues of the Republican candidates' religions?

Why is that?

Makes me go "Hmmm..."

[kg4kww]

Did the Dems get upset and cry to have this thread moved?

Awhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[kc2orw]

Why is it the drive-by media never questions the Democrats when it comes to religion? Why is it they always question and make issues of the Republican candidates' religions?

Why is that?

Makes me go "Hmmm..."
Don't suck your thumb Steve it will give you bucked teeth :D
Wanna know why...
Because the Republicans exploited religion as a tool for politics your probably to young to remember the "Moral Majority" evangelical lobbyist from way back when... The Democrats have always been against Religion and Politics being mixed so get a pass on it, makes sense now I bet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_majority

[nx6d]

Why is it the drive-by media never questions the Democrats when it comes to religion? Why is it they always question and make issues of the Republican candidates' religions?

Why is that?

Makes me go "Hmmm..."

WAAAA! Why is ok for you guys, but not for me? WAAA!

Why is it that you always use Rush Limbaugh cliches Frozen Steve?

"Drive by Media", get extremely real.

Your frozen antics get more and more cartoonish by the day, Mr. Entitlement.

Makes you go HMMMM? What? Have you turned into a Mazda circa 1974?

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

[AE6IP]

Consensus? I thought he stood for CHANGE? Now he agrees with the stakeholders? Which is it?

False dichotomy. One of Obama's strengths is that the way he accomplishes change is by getting the stake holders to achieve consensus on a new direction.

Controversial issues? What controversial issues? The ones he voted "No Vote/Present."

Feel free to research Obama's bill sponsorship in both the US and IL state senates. He has, among other things, gotten legislation passed to improve the transparency of the government's money management.

The first Hawaiian to be President? So what?

Why do you hate Hawaiians so much? :p

[NL7W]

Don't suck your thumb Steve it will give you bucked teeth :D
Wanna know why...
Because the Republicans exploited religion as a tool for politics your probably to young to remember the "Moral Majority" evangelical lobbyist from way back when... The Democrats have always been against Religion and Politics being mixed so get a pass on it, makes sense now I bet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_majority

Typical responses from irate to the point of cross-eyed Liberals. The mix of the Creator, and man's religions devoted to God and mysticism, have been an integral part of this Nation since before Day 1 -- on or about July 4th, 1776. Do I really need to post another overwhelmingly long list of our Nation's religious/politics/government integration again?

Intelligent and reasonable discussions on candidates' religious or non-religious backgrounds should not be suppressed -- period. I do not care what their political affiliations are.

Don't tell that to the overwhelmingly left-of-center media though, or some of the Lefties here, for suppression is the name of their game.

I say, "Try again."

[w5klb]

...Here you go: (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490)
the senator's recent voting record.

I'm sure even you can manage to find a few votes you agree with there.

Otay Marty...

If Barack Obama has accomplished so much 'splain dis. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o)

:eek:

[VK3ZL]

What a wonderful thread this has turned out to be.Bringing out the "best" of America ?...Racism,religious hatred,and all the rest of the garbage spouted from the righteous right wing lunatics.
A great record you have indeed.Slavery,the KKK,and a warmongering president etc.
No wonder the rest of the world distrusts anything American these days.
This whole thread has become disgusting.

[w5klb]

What a wonderful thread this has turned out to be.Bringing out the "best" of America ?...Racism,religious hatred,and all the rest of the garbage spouted from the righteous right wing lunatics.
A great record you have indeed.Slavery,the KKK,and a warmongering president etc.
No wonder the rest of the world distrusts anything American these days.
This whole thread has become disgusting.

And you're reading and commenting on this thread beeecaaause...?

[VK3ZL]

Because I can and what of it ?

[w5klb]

Because I can and what of it ?

Moral of Story: If you don't like what you read, go someplace else.

G'day Mate.

[VK3ZL]

I will choose where I want to be.Take a walk yourself..

[ad4mg]

What a wonderful thread this has turned out to be.Bringing out the "best" of America ?...Racism,religious hatred,and all the rest of the garbage spouted from the righteous right wing lunatics.
A great record you have indeed.Slavery,the KKK,and a warmongering president etc.
No wonder the rest of the world distrusts anything American these days.
This whole thread has become disgusting.

Dude, the view from the inside here is that the whole country has become disgusting. This is what the uber right-wing zealots, also known as neoconservatives, have done to a once proud nation.

Now some cutsie little neokid, lacking anything to counter this, will suggest something stupid like "if you don't like it here, leave".

Honestly, I wish I could afford to leave. This place blows since the neocons showed up.

[ad4mg]

And you're reading and commenting on this thread beeecaaause...?

Because this is a discussion board, and he can. You have a problem with this?

[NL7W]

Otay Marty...

If Barack Obama has accomplished so much 'splain dis. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o)

:eek:

I know!

Obama spouts CHANGE & VISION & HOPE. He IS the secular crowd's new progressive-socialist minister!

His platitudes bathe the great secular unwashed with the very thing their souls so disparately desire -- FAITH in something! Eventually, we will see his popularity and charisma wane. He must, after all, discuss and "try out" his substantiative, "somewhere between liberal and socialist", popularism-like agenda on the American public -- for most of us already know he is left of Shrillery in terms of the political spectrum.

Let's see if Obama's future "chicken in every pot" offerings pass muster with the American public when the time comes.

Shrillery's already blown her wad... let's see if Obama can really forgo that! [I don't think so. Americans will disavow socialism and the unworkable.]

It should get very interesting... come the general election.



73.

[W3MIV]

All of you so-called "neoconservatives" who pride yourselves on the correctness of your chosen course for the nation to follow are assembling yourselves like Keystone Kops around a dilapidated jalopy for the victory parade.

It is significant that all of you are standing in the rain and wondering why you are getting wet.


"More than anything else, I want my candidacy to unify our country, to renew the American spirit and sense of purpose. I want to carry our message to every American, regardless of party affiliation, who is a member of this community of shared values . . . For those who have abandoned hope, we'll restore hope and we'll welcome them into a great national crusade to make America great again!"

Those words were spoken by Ronald Reagan when he first was nominated in 1980. Look at all familiar? Notice any trace of similarity to the high-flying phraseology of one Barack Obama?

Perhaps you should jog your tiny cogitation kernels to recall the reality of the 1980 election, the one that was built upon "rhetoric without substance:"


Earlier that day, the New York Times ran a long profile of Reagan on its front page. The author, Howell Raines, lamented that the news media had been unsuccessful in getting Reagan to speak in anything other than "sweeping generalities about economic and military policy." Mr. Raines further noted: "political critics who characterize him as banal and shallow, a mouther of right-wing platitudes, delight in recalling that he co-starred with a chimpanzee in 'Bedtime for Bonzo.'"

Throughout his campaign, Reagan fought off charges that his candidacy was built more on optimism than policies. The charges came from reporters and opponents. John Anderson, a rival in the Republican primary who ran as an independent in the general election, complained that Reagan offered little more than "old platitudes and old generalities."

Conservatives understood that this Reagan-as-a-simpleton view was a caricature (something made even clearer in several recent books, particularly Reagan's own diaries). That his opponents never got this is what led to their undoing. Those critics who giggled about his turn alongside a chimp were considerably less delighted when Reagan won 44 states and 489 electoral votes in November.

It will be very amusing to many of us to come back and revisit these threads in November.

Oh, and you can read the entire editorial article by The Weekly Standard's Stephen Hayes in the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120398899374792349.html

Don't bite your tongues when confronted by the few words with more syllables than you are accustomed to reading in a normal day of drooling over Obama's chances.

:D

[NL7W]

Don't bite your tongues when confronted by the few words with more syllables than you are accustomed to reading in a normal day of drooling over Obama's chances.

:D[/QUOTE]

Obama fanatics' drool stops at my driveway. Like I said, it'll boil down to substance at the end of the general election. Nothing more -- nothing less. Substance and character are where Obama comes up short.

Sorry, Al... unrealizable platitudes and empty promises must die a horrible death.

As Yoda would say, ""Faith in your apprentice [Obama] misplaced may be, as is your faith in the dark side of the Force."


73, OM.

[W3MIV]

Don't bite your tongues when confronted by the few words with more syllables than you are accustomed to reading in a normal day of drooling over Obama's chances.

Obama fanatics' drool stops at my driveway. Like I said, it'll boil down to substance at the end of the general election. Nothing more -- nothing less. Substance and character are where Obama comes up short.

Sorry, Al... unrealizable platitudes and empty promises must die a horrible death.

As Yoda would say, ""Faith in your apprentice [Obama] misplaced may be, as is your faith in the dark side of the Force."


73, OM.


Dream on, dear boy, dream on. You may continue to put your faith in fictional characters drawn from children's fantasy tales, but I shall continue to rely upon the grand democratic principles that have led this country through trials, tribulations and tenebrous temptations, gradually shaping an electorate that gets it right far more often than not. What most of us share as an electorate is an ability to learn from our mistakes.

Oh, and on the topic of mistakes, it is "as I said...."

:p

[NL7W]

Dream on, dear boy, dream on. You may continue to put your faith in fictional characters drawn from children's fantasy tales, but I shall continue to rely upon the grand democratic principles that have led this country through trials, tribulations and tenebrous temptations, gradually shaping an electorate that gets it right far more often than not. What most of us share as an electorate is an ability to learn from our mistakes.

Oh, and on the topic of mistakes, it is "as I said...."

:p

Your faith in the UNREALIZABLE is where I can draw my never-ending cutesy analogies.

Best of luck with your neophyte candidate and his untenable, soon-to-be-uncovered, socialistic direction.

...and 73.

[W3MIV]

Your faith in the UNREALIZABLE is where I can draw my never-ending cutesy analogies.

You mean, at least until November.

[K8YZK]

What a wonderful thread this has turned out to be.Bringing out the "best" of America ?...Racism,religious hatred,and all the rest of the garbage spouted from the righteous right wing lunatics.
A great record you have indeed.Slavery,the KKK,and a warmongering president etc.
No wonder the rest of the world distrusts anything American these days.
This whole thread has become disgusting.

Yes some of it is disgusting, but you know here in the US we still have what is called free speech. We also still have the right to own fire arms.
Like someone else said, nobody said you have to read it, or even comment on it. If you don't like it go to another website, or turn off the computer.

[W3MIV]

Yes some of it is disgusting, but you know here in the US we still have what is called free speech. We also still have the right to own fire arms.

The freedom to air one's views should always be tempered by the reality of the views one wants to air. That marks a significant difference between a wise man and a fool. I leave you to decide which category most stains this thread.

Like someone else said, nobody said you have to read it, or even comment on it. If you don't like it go to another website, or turn off the computer.

I suggest you miss the point entirely. Posts here are intended to be read. It is, therefore, vain to challenge the readership for objecting to the quality of the commentary being posted. Wouldn't it seem more fruitful to throw the gauntlet down to them who post bilge?

Or is it your thesis that there is much in this thread about which you should be proud? Much about which to crow? Much with which you would gladly choose to associate yourself and your credal foundations?

I would be hesitant to respond affirmatively. But I suspect there is a certain pride in attaining the least level; after all, if one cannot rise to measure up, one can easily stoop.

[N8UZE]

I particularly liked the video of the alleged "whistle blower". This guy knows that if Obama is elected, Richard Mellon Scaife will feed and clothe him as long as Obama is in office, and Limbaugh will make him famous - whether there's any substance to his accusation or not.

Frankly, if the Muslim nonsense is the best that the whisperers can do, the GOP is in really bad shape this election. LBJ vs. Goldwater II...

This early in the process, it is much more likely that this type of garbage would be spread by someone in his own party that does not want him to be the candidate.

The interparty mudslinging will come later.

[N8UZE]

You haven't gotten your information straight yet, so I think I'll pass on beliving you. Thanks.



You might want to review the senator's voting records. As usual, your characterization is wrong.



Nah, I'm used to your sort of spinning.



Here you go: (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490)
the senator's recent voting record.

I'm sure even you can manage to find a few votes you agree with there.

But just in case you can't, how about

The "Coburn-Obama Transparency Act" provides for the web site USAspending.gov, managed by the Office of Management and Budget. The site lists all organizations receiving Federal funds from 2007 onward and provides breakdowns by the agency allocating the funds, the dollar amount given, and the purpose of the grant or contract.


I'd think more government transparency on fiscal matters would be dear to the hearts of conservatives everywhere.


This one does sound promising. I'll have to read up on it and see if it has any "hidden" agendas or earmarks or other items not relevent to the main purpose of the bill.

[N8UZE]

What a wonderful thread this has turned out to be.Bringing out the "best" of America ?...Racism,religious hatred,and all the rest of the garbage spouted from the righteous right wing lunatics.
A great record you have indeed.Slavery,the KKK,and a warmongering president etc.
No wonder the rest of the world distrusts anything American these days.
This whole thread has become disgusting.

Non sequiter. If one were to delve into the politics and history of Australia, it would be no better. Trouble is every one watches the United States but very few watch Australia.

[NL7W]

The freedom to air one's views should always be tempered by the reality of the views one wants to air. That marks a significant difference between a wise man and a fool. I leave you to decide which category most stains this thread.



I suggest you miss the point entirely. Posts here are intended to be read. It is, therefore, vain to challenge the readership for objecting to the quality of the commentary being posted. Wouldn't it seem more fruitful to throw the gauntlet down to them who post bilge?

Or is it your thesis that there is much in this thread about which you should be proud? Much about which to crow? Much with which you would gladly choose to associate yourself and your credal foundations?

I would be hesitant to respond affirmatively. But I suspect there is a certain pride in attaining the least level; after all, if one cannot rise to measure up, one can easily stoop.

Your wavy locks from your younger years made you look taller than you really are, Al. I'm sure you were thankful for that back then.

Stand tall now... ;):D:cool:


OTOH, Being short and green isn't all that bad... :)



Toodles!

[W3MIV]

Non sequiter. If one were to delve into the politics and history of Australia, it would be no better. Trouble is every one watches the United States but very few watch Australia.

I disagree. It is no non sequitor; he was not posting about Australia, nor were we in this thread. He makes a good point, though a hard one for many to acknowledge. He has yet to boast of Australia as being the last, best answer to humankind -- something we hear bruited about the US every day, day after day.

Blind patriotism is the failing that has led the world to much misery.

[N8UZE]

I disagree. It is no non sequitor; he was not posting about Australia, nor were we in this thread. He makes a good point, though a hard one for many to acknowledge. He has yet to boast of Australia as being the last, best answer to humankind -- something we hear bruited about the US every day, day after day.

Blind patriotism is the failing that has led the world to much misery.

It is a non sequiter in that it is not germane to the original topic of the thread.

Keep in mind that his phrasing essentially inferred that that other countries were indeed better than the US. He dredged up issues we have already taken care of (slavery was eliminated long ago) and issues that we continue to actively try to correct (the KKK).

That we boast about our country is no great sin. Many others boast about their own countries too.

The US is sufficiently powerful that it will be in the limelight and everything the country does will be examined with the closest scrutiny whether we like it or not. In most countries the media shares the characteristic with ours in that they like to report the dramatic, bad news instead of the good news. Our mistakes will be highlighted with a blinding glare whether we like it or not. Our successes will be largely ignored just as they are in our own media. "Boasting" is perhaps the only way for good news to spread since it is seldom reported in either the domestic or foreign media.

Nor is blind patriotism the exclusive province of the US. Throughout history, many nations have had and will continue to have problems with this.

[W3MIV]

What a wonderful thread this has turned out to be. Bringing out the "best" of America ?...Racism, religious hatred, and all the rest of the garbage spouted from the righteous right wing lunatics.
A great record you have indeed. Slavery, the KKK, and a warmongering president etc.

No wonder the rest of the world distrusts anything American these days.
This whole thread has become disgusting.

It is a non sequiter in that it is not germane to the original topic of the thread.

Keep in mind that his phrasing essentially inferred that that other countries were indeed better than the US. He dredged up issues we have already taken care of (slavery was eliminated long ago) and issues that we continue to actively try to correct (the KKK).

No, he implied nothing of the sort; he merely stated his view that "the rest of the world distrusts anything American...." There is no comparison to other nations involved. You inferred otherwise on the basis of either a misreading or misunderstanding. It is perfectly reasonable under these circumstances to remind some of our "my-country-right-or-wrong" mongers that we have a rather checkered past despite our intentions and our boastings.

That we boast about our country is no great sin. Many others boast about their own countries too.

Now you have provided a good example of a non sequitor. He made no boast whatever; nor did I.

The US is sufficiently powerful that it will be in the limelight and everything the country does will be examined with the closest scrutiny whether we like it or not. In most countries the media shares the characteristic with ours in that they like to report the dramatic, bad news instead of the good news. Our mistakes will be highlighted with a blinding glare whether we like it or not. Our successes will be largely ignored just as they are in our own media. "Boasting" is perhaps the only way for good news to spread since it is seldom reported in either the domestic or foreign media.

You again give a good illustration of non sequitor: It is not our power or lack of power that is central to the issue, but our boasting of one thing and our record of performance that founders the boasts. If one wishes to avoid the dissemination of bad news, one should assure that only good news emanates from the US. Even a child can see that this has not been so. "The path to Hell is paved with good intentions."

Nor is blind patriotism the exclusive province of the US. Throughout history, many nations have had and will continue to have problems with this.

As I recently had occasion to remind one and all, and I believe it was in this very thread, "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." Every tin horn, from Hitler to Mussolini, from Chavez to Castro, from Franco to Daniel Ortega employs shallow appeals to patriotism as the first call to tyranny.

This entire thread is a sad commentary on the misappropriation of "patriotism" harnessed to tenebrous purposes out of simple fear for the election of a candidate. A man's reputation is sacrificed to the meanest goals through a regular program of calumny and prevarication. That he sees clearly the foundations of scurrility in this campaign does not condemn him; indeed, it commends him.

[WC5P]

No they didn't, and it's not there. The so-called "New Left" of the 60s tried very hard to distance itself from the communist party.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, it IS in there. Maybe these folks didn’t get the memo:

From: “Our Class Stand” by Bernardine Dohrn
Osawatomie, Autumn 1975 edition

“We are building a communist organization to be part of the forces which build a revolutionary communist party to lead the working class to seize power and build socialism..”


From: “Politics in Command” by Celia Sojurn and Billy Ayers
Document issues in the spring of 1976

“Our goal is to build communist organization toward the stage where armed struggle becomes a mass phenomenon led by a Marxist-Leninist party; a revolutionary stage.”


Quotes taken during “Days of Rage” Chicago, 1969

Mark Rudd:
“We’re not Communist-inspired, We’re Communists. Almost half the people in the world are Communists. We’re throwing in with them.”


Bill Ayers:
“We are revolutionary Communists. We’re fighting to destroy imperialism and establish a socialist state.”

There are many, many more such quotes in there. Obviously, you have not read it.

I see no reason why Obama should not be asked to explain his having tea and crumpets with these terrorists, but, obviously, the news media is giving him the usual pass on it. If he’s proud of his association with Ayers, why doesn’t he say so?? The answer is obvious.

[WC5P]

You're about 40 years behind the times with that boogie man.

But you keep harping on what the SDS was, back when Obama was in grade school. it's a very effective way of exposing the lack of substance in your own arguments.

Obama may have been in grade skool, but, these same 60’s Marxists are still working on their beloved revolution today. They had to give up on their violent armed methods mainly because they were incompetent at it. Now they are using more subtle methods, but they have not given up on their revolution. Pick a few names at random from the FBI files and Google ‘em. See what they are doing nowadays. It might surprise you…… or maybe not.

[N8UZE]

No, he implied nothing of the sort; he merely stated his view that "the rest of the world distrusts anything American...." There is no comparison to other nations involved. You inferred otherwise on the basis of either a misreading or misunderstanding. It is perfectly reasonable under these circumstances to remind some of our "my-country-right-or-wrong" mongers that we have a rather checkered past despite our intentions and our boastings.

So do they mistrust us because they think they are better than us or because they know they are not?

We are not necessarily condemned to repeat that checkered past. Nor is any other nation's past better nor are they condemned to repeat their's either.

It is not our power or lack of power that is central to the issue, but our boasting of one thing and our record of performance that founders the boasts. If one wishes to avoid the dissemination of bad news, one should assure that only good news emanates from the US. Even a child can see that this has not been so. "The path to Hell is paved with good intentions."

So does making mistakes mean that we can never "boast" of those good things that we do accomplish? Is a country to be condemned forever for mistakes and not allowed to make corrections?

Power or lack thereof is quite central to the issue in my opinion. Would anyone really care if, say Mauritius, boasted of one thing and did the exact opposite? Probably not unless they boasted of having WMDs or something of equal magnitude.


As I recently had occasion to remind one and all, and I believe it was in this very thread, "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." Every tin horn, from Hitler to Mussolini, from Chavez to Castro, from Franco to Daniel Ortega employs shallow appeals to patriotism as the first call to tyranny.

Yet such misuse of patriotism does not make patriotism itself bad.

This entire thread is a sad commentary on the misappropriation of "patriotism" harnessed to tenebrous purposes out of simple fear for the election of a candidate. A man's reputation is sacrificed to the meanest goals through a regular program of calumny and prevarication. That he sees clearly the foundations of scurrility in this campaign does not condemn him; indeed, it commends him.

Yet it appears as if he presumes to judge all on the basis on the actions of the few. This has happened so many times throughout history and led to so many wrong decisions that people ought to know better.

[W3MIV]

So do they mistrust us because they think they are better than us or because they know they are not?

Better or worse is immaterial; they mistrust because far too often we have said one thing and done another. Again, they are not mistrusting us on the basis of thinking we are different so much as on the performance they have experienced.

We are not necessarily condemned to repeat that checkered past. Nor is any other nation's past better nor are they condemned to repeat their's either.

Once burned, twice shy. Can you blame anyone for wanting to taste the stew before sitting down to gorge?

So does making mistakes mean that we can never "boast" of those good things that we do accomplish? Is a country to be condemned forever for mistakes and not allowed to make corrections?

Not at all, but our boasts must be tempered by a measure of restraint sufficient to acknowledge that we do not, cannot speak for the world. Other opinions may seem odd, even wrongheaded, to us, but we do not, may not, have any right to enforce our desires on others. Righteousness is even less appealing in the rest of the world than arrant patriotism.

Power or lack thereof is quite central to the issue in my opinion. Would anyone really care if, say Mauritius, boasted of one thing and did the exact opposite? Probably not unless they boasted of having WMDs or something of equal magnitude.

Disagree; the world is justly concerned at present over events in Darfur, though no one would account it a world power or a significant mover and shaker among diplomatic trusts or in the halls of influence. There is little difference between an AK47 and a neutron bomb if the weapon is pointed at you.

Yet such misuse of patriotism does not make patriotism itself bad.

Neither is a hatchet bad, unless in the hands of Lizzie Bordon. Medical science is a vital tool of humanity, unless in the hands and mind of Josef Mengele. Patriotism has too often been used as a refuge, as Putin is now using it in Russia and the Serbs are using it to batter Kosovo.

Yet it appears as if he presumes to judge all on the basis on the actions of the few. This has happened so many times throughout history and led to so many wrong decisions that people ought to know better.

The few "ought to know better?" Or the many? Alas, throughout history it has taken but a few to inspire some of the worst actions of mankind, and all too often the many have stood as bystanders. This is happening in Africa now, and it has happened in Auschwitz in the past. That what happened in Alabama in our past does not reach the depths of those horrors does not excuse it from memory.

[N3ATS]

He has, among other things, gotten legislation passed to improve the transparency of the government's money management.

Isn't the money management by our government already pretty much invisible? Management? I don't see any management! :D :p

Seriously. I've looked at his voting record. And other than the standard common sense "rubber stamp" issues he spends a lot of time (or lack thereof) voting "present" or not at all. Not voting on the hard issues shows me two things.

One, he's apparently afraid that his opinions may be unpopular, so he abstains from expressing them.

Two, he is not a viable choice for the top post because he has failed to let the electorate know where he stands on the truly uncomfortable positions.

The public should demand a straight-forward candidate whose future can be judged by his past voting record and who is proud to display his principles.

[kc2orw]

The public should demand a straight-forward candidate whose future can be judged by his past voting record and who is proud to display his principles.
Who would that be some constitutional illiterate from Texas or another nitwit from Arizona...

[W3MIV]

The public should demand a straight-forward candidate whose future can be judged by his past voting record and who is proud to display his principles.

There is already one such candidate in the race. His name is Barack Obama, and you may as well get used to him since he, in all probability, will be sworn in come January, 2009.

[AE6IP]

Obama may have been in grade skool, but, these same 60’s Marxists are still working on their beloved revolution today.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But it doesn't matter to this presidential campaign, as Obama isn't one of them.

[WC5P]

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But it doesn't matter to this presidential campaign, as Obama isn't one of them.

Problem is, these guys have the Democrat Party by the nads. Just look at their major candidates. A pair of Marxists.

[ad4mg]

Problem is, these guys have the Democrat Party by the nads. Just look at their major candidates. A pair of Marxists.

Wrong. Not even close.

Big business rules this country.

You need to get out into the fresh air more often. You've bought into the medium wave neoconservative mantra of "hate everyone but me".

Your world is being broadcast in black & white, good and bad, evildoers & patriots.

Step slowly away from the kool aid, and turn off the AM radio, Comrade.

See signature below for further clarification.

[n0ov]

Hate to say it --- your both wrong.

Again, the media has selected the canidates. Look at all the great stories these folks are producing and the national conventions have not even taken place

[ad4mg]

Hate to say it --- your both wrong.

Again, the media has selected the canidates. Look at all the great stories these folks are producing and the national conventions have not even taken place

What is the media, if not big business? They are part of the scheme ... the mouthpiece for big, greedy, corporate amerika.

[WC5P]

amerika.

Tells me everything I need to know about you.

[ad4mg]

Tells me everything I need to know about you.

Good. I hate answering a lot of stupid questions.

[N3ATS]

There is already one such candidate in the race. His name is Barack Obama, and you may as well get used to him since he, in all probability, will be sworn in come January, 2009.

Seriously. I've looked at his voting record. And other than the standard common sense "rubber stamp" issues he spends a lot of time (or lack thereof) voting "present" or not at all. Not voting on the hard issues shows me two things.

One, he's apparently afraid that his opinions may be unpopular, so he abstains from expressing them.

Two, he is not a viable choice for the top post because he has failed to let the electorate know where he stands on the truly uncomfortable positions.

The public should demand a straight-forward candidate whose future can be judged by his past voting record and who is proud to display his principles.

[ad4mg]

Two, he is not a viable choice for the top post because he has failed to let the electorate know where he stands on the truly uncomfortable positions.

The public should demand a straight-forward candidate whose future can be judged by his past voting record and who is proud to display his principles.

This is why I cannot bring myself to support Obama. He seems intentionally vague on some issues.

McCain, to me, is just another war monger, and I can't deal with that lunacy.

Hillary is self-explanatory. I shouldn't need to explain that ...

I'm going to vote again this time, but like '04, I'm going to dread doing so.

[AE6IP]

Problem is, these guys have the Democrat Party by the nads. Just look at their major candidates. A pair of Marxists.

still trying to work that guilt-by-association angle, eh?

Neither Mrs Clinton nor Mr Obama are Marxists, and you're not going to be able to dredge up any quotes to support your claim they are.

[n0ov]

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/cartoons/toon022708.gif

[AE6IP]

Seriously. I've looked at his voting record. And other than the standard common sense "rubber stamp" issues he spends a lot of time (or lack thereof) voting "present" or not at all. Not voting on the hard issues shows me two things.

You might want to move on from "looking" to understanding. Your man Paul votes "not voting" pretty often himself and Obama has managed to sponsor and get passed legislation that even you would approve of.


The public should demand a straight-forward candidate whose future can be judged by his past voting record and who is proud to display his principles.

Mr Obama has written two books and given numerous speeches that display his principles. They are as easy to discover as those of anyone else in the race.

This article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obama-speeches-analyzed-feb24,1,5782566,print.story) even demonstrates that despite the claims of lack of substance, Obama offers as much substance on policy in his stump speeches as any of the candidates.

[WC5P]

still trying to work that guilt-by-association angle, eh?

Neither Mrs Clinton nor Mr Obama are Marxists, and you're not going to be able to dredge up any quotes to support your claim they are.

Really? When Ms Klinton says she is going to "TAKE" corporate profits, WTF is that? Under what law can a president "TAKE" any private assets? How is that different from what Hugo Chavez does? What is to stop her from taking, say, your assets??

You ought to hear her TV commercials here in the Texas Dimmercrat primary. Nothing less that redistribution, disguised in flowery campaign rhetoric. Take from the haves, give to the have nots.

Who do you think she is emulating?

A. Karl Marx

2. Groucho Marks

III. Robin Hood

Hint: A and III are the same.

What Obama is saying is no different. Redistribute. Not at all surprising for a graduate of Columbia, is it?

[W3MIV]

You will lose. Get over it.


Really? When Ms Klinton says she is going to "TAKE" corporate profits, WTF is that? Under what law can a president "TAKE" any private assets? How is that different from what Hugo Chavez does? What is to stop her from taking, say, your assets??

You ought to hear her TV commercials here in the Texas Dimmercrat primary. Nothing less that redistribution, disguised in flowery campaign rhetoric. Take from the haves, give to the have nots.

Who do you think she is emulating?

A. Karl Marx

2. Groucho Marks

III. Robin Hood

Hint: A and III are the same.

What Obama is saying is no different. Redistribute. Not at all surprising for a graduate of Columbia, is it?

[AE6IP]

Really? When Ms Klinton says she is going to "TAKE" corporate profits, WTF is that? Under what law can a president "TAKE" any private assets? How is that different from what Hugo Chavez does? What is to stop her from taking, say, your assets??

It's taxation. Under the tax laws. She does it under US law. See 1.


Who do you think she is emulating?

A. Karl Marx

2. Groucho Marks

III. Robin Hood

Hint: A and III are the same.


Hint: If you think that you need to re-read your English folklore. Robin Hood was, in the legend, stealing back from the rich what they had stolen from the poor and returning it.

Marx, by the way, would not condone active social-engineering by taxation. You seem to forget that his belief was that redistribution was an inevitable outcome of class warfare.

If you can't tell the difference between Marxist "historical inevitability", Clintonian social engineering, and English restoration of property legends, perhaps you might consider a refresher course in social theory.

What Obama is saying is no different. Redistribute. Not at all surprising for a graduate of Columbia, is it?

There you go with that guilt-by-association thing again. Funny though, you haven't come up with quotes from either Mrs Clinton, nor Mr Obama, that support your claims about them.

But no, it's not surprising that a graduate of Columbia would have a good grasp on economic principles.

[WC5P]

You will lose. Get over it.

Yeppers, probably will. The opposing candidate is completely lame. The country is strong enough to survive even a Marxist Dimmercrat regime. It will probably take 50 years for the economy to recover from the damage these idiots will do to it, however. Hope you don't have any money in the stock market or a 401K. If so, you better put your money under the mattress.

[WC5P]

Good. I hate answering a lot of stupid questions.

Well, are you a closed-minded leftist, or is it simply over your head?

Feel free to put me on ignore if you can't handle it...

[WC5P]

Funny though, you haven't come up with quotes from either Mrs Clinton, nor Mr Obama, that support your claims about them.


Remember what happened the last time you said I couldn't come up with quotes? :rolleyes: Made a fool of you, didn't I?

[ad4mg]

Well, are you a closed-minded leftist, or is it simply over your head?

Feel free to put me on ignore if you can't handle it...

Neither, just a very low tolerance for little neoconservative foot soldiers.

No need for me to use the ignore feature. I can deal with anything you can dish out, no sweat.

Have a pleasant day now! :p

[AE6IP]

Remember what happened the last time you said I couldn't come up with quotes? Made a fool of you, didn't I?

Nope. I merely chose not to be distracted by your attempt to establish guilt-by-association. Otherwise, I would have quoted the Port Huron statement to you and chided you for taking quotations out of context.

And this time, you're not even going to come up with the quotes.

Or you would have by now.

[WC5P]

still trying to work that guilt-by-association angle, eh?


A man is known by the company he keeps.
[1912 ‘Saki’ Chronicles of Clovis 286 (heading)]

Personally, I prefer not to keep company with commie terrorists. I don't think it is wise for a presidential candidate to do so either. Obviously, you feel differently.

How do you feel about Ayers saying "Kill all the rich people"? Are you a rich person? Obama is, he's a yuppie millionaire.

[WC5P]

Neither, just a very low tolerance for little neoconservative foot soldiers.

Little Neoconservative foot soldiers, LOL

When you're out of ideas, just call 'em neocons.

As I have said before on here, name calling doesn't hurt me a damn bit. If that's how you get your jollies, go for it. It just shows everyone that you are out of ideas, and it makes you look foolish. Knock yourself out.


BTW, it doesn't really fit me. It implies that I used to be a liberal, which is simply not the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon

[WC5P]

And this time, you're not even going to come up with the quotes.

Or you would have by now.

Dude, how many questions have I asked you, which remain unanswered??

If you are looking for a quote where one of these marxists brags about being a marxist, I doubt if there is one. Bank robbers don't usually confess to robbing banks either.


I sure would like to know what's in Hillary's thesis though. Her gushing about Comrade Alinsky probably comes close. Something must stink in there or she wouldn't have tried to hide it from public view.

[ad4mg]

Little Neoconservative foot soldiers, LOL

When you're out of ideas, just call 'em neocons.

As I have said before on here, name calling doesn't hurt me a damn bit. If that's how you get your jollies, go for it. It just shows everyone that you are out of ideas, and it makes you look foolish. Knock yourself out.


BTW, it doesn't really fit me. It implies that I used to be a liberal, which is simply not the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon

I don't need wiki, I understand the definition very well. I make it a habit to understand the terms I use.

Neocon is the closest thing I have for the uber right-wing zealots who are hell bent on destroying anything decent about this country. The owner of this site would not take kindly to my using a more descriptive, accurate term for these types. If you were never a liberal, I'll be the first to agree that you are not now a neocon.

I'm not out of ideas by any stretch of the imagination. I do, however, tire easily when trying to discuss topics with closed minded fools (not insinuating that this description fits you) who see the world in black and white.

You may be the exception to these tendencies, but your portrayal of yourself, and representation of yourself by your posts indicates otherwise. You often seem to echo the likes of the uber-zealots of the "Excrement in BC" type ilk.

You and another "5" call here seem to be the type that are easily upset by my rants. Truth is, I despise those I perceive as neocons, or uber right-wing, war mongering, PNAC inspired lunatics seeking world domination, and foolishly believing democracies can be built with bombs, and I'm here to do everything in my power, within the site rules, to irritate the hell out of them and make them pay for the incredible damage they've caused this country.

If you get caught up in the crossfire, and find yourself wounded by my words, expect no apology from me. You do seem quite thin-skinned, and can't seem to stop responding to my posts. In that regard, I have taken ownership of a small part of your soul, which would indicate that I have an imaginative list of ideas which I use to figuratively poke my finger in your eye.

And, if I haven't previously done so, I wish to thank you for the entertainment. It has brightened slightly what would have been pretty much an ordinary day for me.

[AE6IP]

A man is known by the company he keeps.
[1912 ‘Saki’ Chronicles of Clovis 286 (heading)]

Personally, I prefer not to keep company with commie terrorists. I don't think it is wise for a presidential candidate to do so either. Obviously, you feel differently.

You misunderstand your own aphorism. Attending an event at someone's house is not "keeping company" with them.

How do you feel about Ayers saying "Kill all the rich people"? Are you a rich person? Obama is, he's a yuppie millionaire.

I feel that you're trying to drag the discussion down a blind ally because you've got nothing relevant to the presidential campaign.

The Buddhists say there are two ways to be a rich man: to have more or to want less. Why yes, I am a rich man.

[AE6IP]

Dude, how many questions have I asked you, which remain unanswered??

Many. You ask after many irrelevant things, but I refuse to be distracted.

Your assertion that Clinton or Obama are Marxists, however, is relevant, and it is telling that you have no evidence to support it.

If you are looking for a quote where one of these marxists brags about being a marxist, I doubt if there is one. Bank robbers don't usually confess to robbing banks either.

Neither do people who don't rob banks usually confess to robbing banks. You've got nothing.

I sure would like to know what's in Hillary's thesis though. Her gushing about Comrade Alinsky probably comes close. Something must stink in there or she wouldn't have tried to hide it from public view.

You must not care too terribly. It is available through interlibrary loan on microfilm

It is also widely, although in copyright violation, available on the web.

Saul Alinsky, by the way, was a brilliant organizer, who, despite his flirtations with communism, did much good and little harm in his life.

"A free and open society is an ongoing conflict, interrupted periodically by compromises." -- Saul Alinsky

But again, you're trying for guilt-by-association, rather than providing evidence to support your thesis.

[WC5P]

Many. You ask after many irrelevant things, but I refuse to be distracted.

Your assertion that Clinton or Obama are Marxists, however, is relevant, and it is telling that you have no evidence to support it.



Neither do people who don't rob banks usually confess to robbing banks. You've got nothing.



You must not care too terribly. It is available through interlibrary loan on microfilm

It is also widely, although in copyright violation, available on the web.

Saul Alinsky, by the way, was a brilliant organizer, who, despite his flirtations with communism, did much good and little harm in his life.

-- Saul Alinsky

But again, you're trying for guilt-by-association, rather than providing evidence to support your thesis.

Dude, they were both board members of the same leftist outfit at tha same time. Obama certainly must have known who Ayers was. He could have resigned, but he didn't.

As for politicians disguising what thet are:

THE CHICKEN BUSINESS

John the farmer was in the fertilized egg business. He had several hundred young layers (hens), called 'pullets', and ten roosters, whose job it was to fertilize the eggs.

The farmer kept records and any rooster that didn't perform went into the soup pot and was replaced. That took an awful lot of his time, so he bought a set of tiny bells and attached them to his roosters. Each bell had a different tone so John could tell from a distance, which rooster was performing. Now he could sit on the porch and fill out an efficiency report simply by listening to the bells.

The farmer's favorite rooster was old Butch, a very fine specimen he was, too. But on this particular morning John noticed old Butch's bell hadn't rung at all! John went to investigate.

The other roosters were chasing pullets, bells-a-ringing. The pullets, hearing the roosters coming, would run for cover.

But to Farmer John's amazement, old Butch had his bell in his beak, so it couldn't ring. He'd sneak up on a pullet, do his job and walk on to the next one. John was so proud of old Butch, he entered him in the Renfrew County Fair and he became an overnight sensation among the judges.

The result...The judges not only awarded old Butch the No Bell Piece Prize but they also awarded him the Pulletsurprise as well.

Clearly old Butch was a politician in the making: who else but a politician could figure out how to win two of the most highly coveted awards on our planet by being the best at sneaking up on the populace and screwing them when they weren't paying attention.

Vote carefully, the bells are not allways ringing.......

[AE6IP]

Dude, they were both board members of the same leftist outfit at tha same time. Obama certainly must have known who Ayers was. He could have resigned, but he didn't.

Another attempt at guilt-by-association with no meat to it.

Obama serves in the same United States Senate as John McCain. Would you care to try your analogy there?

Serving on the board of directors of a charity with someone isn't keeping company with them either.

[WC5P]

Another attempt at guilt-by-association with no meat to it.

Obama serves in the same United States Senate as John McCain. Would you care to try your analogy there?

Serving on the board of directors of a charity with someone isn't keeping company with them either.

As you might be aware, they have an aisle down the middle of the Senate. Dimmercrats sit on one side, Republicrats sit on the other.

The referenced "charity" has a board with about 6 members. All are uber-leftists or they don't get in the door.

[AE6IP]

As you might be aware, they have an aisle down the middle of the Senate. Dimmercrats sit on one side, Republicrats sit on the other.

The referenced "charity" has a board with about 6 members. All are uber-leftists or they don't get in the door.

9. They meet twice a year for a couple of hours. It's clear that you don't know the current board is, or you're color blind in the political spectrum. Lee Bey, Doris Chagin, and Pat Sheehan are not "uber" leftists.

Senator Obama sits on the Senate Committee with Senator Lugar, whose members all sit at the same table, and have met more hours this year than the total time Senator Obama spent in Woods Fund board meetings. Care to try your analogy again?

Still no meat to your assertions.

[WC5P]

Sorry, no sale.

Their website lists 9 board members. Doesn't list their political affiliations, but it isn't hard to guess. I don't think Ayers is going to sit with board members whom he wanted to kill, and board members aren't going to sit with him for long, knowing he wanted to (or probably still wants to) kill them. Would you want to sit on a board with Charles Manson? Not unless you are as crazy as he is, I bet.

Mission and core principals statement smells leftist, although couched in pretty words. Look at the lists of grants issued. Most all of it is either leftist socialist, or artsy-fartsie, which is also generally leftist.

It looks like leftist / socialist, smells like leftist / socialist, and quacks like leftist / socialist, in my book, it must be leftist / socialist.

Sorry dude, anything with Ayers involved is simply not gonna be balanced. End of story.

[AE6IP]

Their website lists 9 board members. Doesn't list their political affiliations, but it isn't hard to guess.

When you wear rose colored glasses, everybody looks like a red.

Sorry dude, anything with Ayers involved is simply not gonna be balanced. End of story.

You keep trying the same guilt-by-association thing, and it keeps coming up empty.

By failing to produce evidence against Obama, you affirm my believe that he is, indeed, the best candidate for president this time around.

[K3XR]

What do you know, Barry found his flag pin!!

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/12/flag-lapel-pin-sighting-reported-in-west-virginia/?print=1

[ac4r]

Sorry, no sale.

Their website lists 9 board members. Doesn't list their political affiliations, but it isn't hard to guess. I don't think Ayers is going to sit with board members whom he wanted to kill, and board members aren't going to sit with him for long, knowing he wanted to (or probably still wants to) kill them. Would you want to sit on a board with Charles Manson? Not unless you are as crazy as he is, I bet.

Mission and core principals statement smells leftist, although couched in pretty words. Look at the lists of grants issued. Most all of it is either leftist socialist, or artsy-fartsie, which is also generally leftist.

It looks like leftist / socialist, smells like leftist / socialist, and quacks like leftist / socialist, in my book, it must be leftist / socialist.

Sorry dude, anything with Ayers involved is simply not gonna be balanced. End of story.

Never fear the 527's will swiftboat him .

[K8YZK]

Oh say can you see, Obama doesn't care
To Honor those that fought to keep this country free.
Him and Wright are in agreement, and others just cling
Cling to our religion and guns.

So let him do what he wants
Because in November, he and Michelle
will be looking from the outside at
Others inside the White House

[k9kxq]

You far rightwingnuts are getting damn desperate to bring back a thread from February, some of you are so lame you can't see the writing on the wall, folks in this country are sick and tired of rightwingnuts, and they would rather have a black man as President than another dumbass Bush surrogate, get use to it...

kxq

[N2RJ]

a questioner cited the fact that Obama once failed to put his hand over his heart while singing the national anthem.


I don't get this.

I really don't do this either.

And I never was asked to do this while becoming or learning about becoming a citizen.

I did have to learn US history, the constitution and US Government.

[n7wr]

Obama's ties to radicals coupled with his leftist agenda and his lack of respect for the symbols of this great nation make him unfit to serve as President. This election will clearly be a choice between two who are both less than qualified. The choice will be between one who is an American and one who in many respects is anti-American.

[KV1M]

Yes, because as we all know cheap symbolism trumps meaningful content every time when it comes to leading a nation out of the slime.

[kg6amw]

Obama is a typical liberal Chicago pol with a thin record, little experience, an array of troubling relationships and to top it off elitist sensibilities.

[KV1M]

Now THAT is a reason to not vote for him. :)

[k8wpj]

This thread is to hot for the dems to deal with.

I guess the fact that is nothing more than pure Bravo Sierra, doesn't really matter to you?

http://w